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Love the idea of comparing different engineers and thinking about ultimate build(s) if you have full creative control. I'm actually going through that process presently anyway.

@@cloveroak5492 Do I understand, correctly, that you've ordered a pair of the Kreosote Parlor Skar-Spray gun engineers?

The downside of ordering from a one man shop when the word is out that he is the best.

I actually have a Beyerdynamic mmx300 which is a pretty nice mic headset combo these are all settings OBS is free and not great I got a copy of Adobe premiere and normalized all the audio so this will be re-released.

I suffer less since my PC has a proper speaker configured, but yes, Mike's audio usually sounds like it's in a different channel haha.

I just uploaded a Remastered version Mike worked on, so that should make everything better if you want to check that out

Fingers crossed for you 🤞

It would have to figure out the squish part. A suit sits on your body does not really support it in your footwear it needs to be snug and very slightly squish your feet not sure how the laser could get that part right. If that could be figured out it would work but I wonder how many sizing issues it would have since your feet are basically almost all joints.

Law Tannery in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Best Bison tannery in the world. This leather is their Palisades line, which they hold back their best hides to create. I did a YT video specifically on those boots if you want to check it out...

I'm glad you are happy with Nick's. I used to like Nick's a lot too. I know where they started, where they've been, who has owned them at various points, people who have worked there, people who do work there, what they have stopped doing, what they still do, and where they are headed. A fit-sheet you do on your own through their site is NO WHERE NEAR the same thing as a mail-in fit-sheet consulted by them. Will it get a majority of the people in a pair of boots they are happy with? Yes. You are apparently in that group and I'm happy you are. But that is part of the shift. A shift away from being as MTO as they used to be. Is the McKay-Lockstitch they stopped doing, without lowering price important? Yes. Will it matter to you? 🤷‍♂️ I dunno,cuz I don't know you. But yeah, they are cutting a corner, and giving you less boot, without lowering the price. Is not offering Norwegian Handwelt anymore important? Probably not. But it is again heading away from true MTO. Just cuz you can't see where they are heading doesn't mean it isn't happening. So I won't "agree to disagree". This isn't a political or religious conversation of opinions. You are happy with your Nick's, and I think that's great. They still make a real good boot. Still make some of the toughest boots in the world. I have no interest in changing your mind. I share what I know, as someone who knows more than most and knows things I've been trusted not to discuss. If I'm not sure I say so or don't bring it up to begin with. If you don't want to believe me that's fine. If you don't care that's fine too. If I've helped you I'm glad to have helped. I don't get paid for this. We aren't monitized or sponsored. So helping people is truly my motivation. But I'm not gonna argue you into anything, or out of anything. I present it, and if you watch you get to digest it and decide what you want to do with it. Thanks again for watching, and I hope you keep loving your Nick's.

I think you guys kind of hit on part of the problem later in the thing about guys who want to LOOK like they are wearing tough boots who don't NEED tough boots, so the lines blur between what used to be WORK boots that are now called "Heritage" boots but can't really be USED as work boots and expect the same results as the old work boots. Again, those guys would be just as well off to save the dough and buy the $250 boots instead of the $400 boots, but if they REALLY must LOOK tough, they're still paying $600 for Nick's or other PNW boots, I guess. I like to have dressy boots AND work boots but I guess I've paid more for some of the work boots than the dressy boots, so I hope they last a long time even if looking perfect wasn't the complete end goal like I said about the leather choices there before regarding Nick's vs. Frank's. But since I'm not using them for extreme work scenarios in the foreseeable future, I DO hope they last a few several good years. BUT this also why those Patriots can't be rebuilt apparently, either, that could be an issue for somebody else but they don't come in my size at that price so I'd be forced to spend the extra to buy from them. There was some video where the guy had bought 13 pairs over the years or something that I wanted to watch again but couldn't find last week. A lot of guys don't do as many follow-up vids as one would like.

Sometimes our perception of what we are wearing is much more important that other peoples perception. So having the heavier duty boot is still important there even if not utilizing it to that extent. Then there is perception of longevity. Even if not working it as hard as it is intended, it still may last much longer. Then there is the people that need the arch in the footbed, so they need the better ones regardless of what they do in them. Not clear what you were referring to when saying about why the Patriot's can't be rebuilt? The Patriots certainly could be rebuilt. Frank's has said they "could" be rebuilt. Nick's has snarkily said they would be happy to rebuild a Patriot several times. The leather in the Patriot is just as tough and just as thick. Frank's CHOSES not to rebuild it. They do so mostly because it is only like 40 bucks more to buy a brand new pair. But I expect it is also to not tie up their resources for making the rest of their boots. Guy who bought 13 pairs of what? A particular brand? PNW boots in general? Spokane brands in gerneral? Something else?

@@cloveroak5492 I had watched a vid where the guy said they can't be rebuilt, so I went from what he said but could not figure out WHY. Apparently HE was wrong, but like you said, mostly just not cost-effective BUT they still don't come in my size, so I still have no idea if they are more worth getting for some people, then. But Mike was just saying that the PNW boots WON'T last forever like all the commenters claim, so maybe I would prefer the cheaper ones if I could get them in my size. Yes, I found that other vid finally and I was less mesmerized watching now than I was when first saw it. I had thought it contained a lot of heavy PNW boots but mostly he had bought a bunch of Drew's logger and Frank's Patriot boots and was playing sizing roulette more than anything else as an excuse for owning multiple pairs. But since he was only spending $300 a time and not waiting four months to get them, it was easier for him to amass a collection in a shorter time than I also thought. He had also bought a couple Fire Commander ones even though he was not a firefighter, but didn't review them in detail and mostly just talked about the fit of the less expensive pairs and how the Drew's had a less shaped heel counter... So I guess a follow-up "wear" vid seems less essential now, but other guys have left me hangin', too. People can buy whatever they want, but a lot of the boot channels are guys who don't use the heavy boots for much heavy work so they can't give the greatest real review or scope of REAL longevity and all that.

@@Highland_Paddy I had inherited a pair of red wings pecos 10' safety boots that started their life on an oil rig. I used it when I was working in a construction site. Fortunately the tasks I was doing didn't expose the boots to stuff hazardous to leather longetivity very much and me being city based instead of working remote meant the boots received full TLC. I resoled those boots a couple of times but the uppers stayed in good shape. I've since stopped working in construction so they received a final resole and they live in my wardrobe now. There's bumps, scrathes, nicks and dicoloured areas on the leather uppers sure but I made sure to keep up my leather's brushing and manintenance especially after the day is done. The boots should be around 14 years old when I retired it. In fact, me attempting to prolong the life of that inherited boot was why I got into leather boots and leather care in the first place. PNW boots aren't immortal, but if all you're doing is standing around, walking and the occassional hike to the wilderness, in my opinion there is a good chance of them outliving the owner haha. I don't think a lot of people understand just how hard you need to wear your boots to wear them down. Even some of videos I've seen Nicks show their logging boots being rebuilt after 6 years of use, their uppers weren't beaten up as bad as you would expect, it just has the issue of the leather upper having accumulated tons of debris in tiny gaps that was starting to act as abrasive and wear out the leather and stitching. Understandable since since loggers don't spend all day everyday cleaning their boots thoroughly. I know my lumberjack relatives never did. Their boots were lucky to received a brushing. I however also know of some job fields where no matter what boot you get, they're done within 3 years, 5 if you are lucky or keep up your maintenance. The Chinese cheap boots would be done in 3 months from what I have heard.

@@cheekibreeki9155 Um, well I don't really know what the start date of the RWs was before you got them and all that is semi-irrelevant unless they were built BEFORE they all had to change tanning processes, so the point I got from Mike's statement was that you can baby the PNW boots all you want or mistreat them all you want and they will still basically disintegrate from drying out in some time frame? Should I estimate that at seven years or hope it is double? Maybe ten is a fair estimate for any quality boot??? I guess this will matter more if you are 25 than if you are 45? Will your boots last until retirement if you want to try and only own one pair for $600??? I don't usually take these kinds of equations very seriously because many of them require too many apples-to-oranges scenarios and apparently none of these guys think they can get mildew in their boots if they never change them out or replace their socks or whatever. I still think Chinese boots will last two or three years if you are just walking around a warehouse even if the leather is thinner than PNW, but the insoles will deteriorate much faster than leather insoles if you are using them almost daily. But like I said, I don't think everyone is automatically using the correct boot for each Use Case or that RW heritage are the same quality as they once were or whatever.

Yeah, some of those designer ones get pumped out of Chinese factories and bombard us.

@@cloveroak5492 There is a very recent video from Corter Leather about a week ago where a LV fraud department determined the authentic (but old) LV bags the man was cutting up to upcycle as wallets was fake because they couldn't tell it apart from fakes. The entire debacle is comedy gold

Yes that's my comment

That is one thing that has always turned me off from vibergs. The very idea that at their price range, most of their competition (though the PNWs are workwear forward) are handlasted boots. Even oakstreet at 500+ range have switched to handlasting. Machine stitching doesn't turn me off as much, for pieces without tension needed on them, like the task of joining together loose panels etc, I daresay machine stitching is the superior option. Viberg might be unbeatable for their last and leather choices but I'll rather risk it with Nicks for example.

You are right...but b4 it was announced, and at the pre-announcement event, that was far from clear. Lots of information said otherwise.

Thanks for your concern

@@cloveroak5492 I can tell you as someone formally in that place, freedom can be had, call upon Him, His name is Jesus the Christ of Nazareth. Praying your heart opens to Him. 👍

Again!? Is it Jeff that is too high again? And is it bad from the beginning, or it latter? Like maybe someone might be starting to talk softer?

I thought it was fine.

its not the worst its been, but an audio imbalance is still there

​@cloveroak5492 the problem is.., Mike's volume is never as loud as yours.. (his voice isn't as loud either) its not terribly distracting.., but I do end up playing around with my volume a bit throughout the videos..

You ain't lyin'!

I did not wear the White's ones around the house first before going out initially, but it also wasn't especially cold at the time, either. Wore them for pretty long drive one day and had no real issue but also didn't walk much that time.

Would it make sense to try to reuse roughout as interior if not worn very much if I got a semi-premature rebuild? I prefer the smooth lowers, so if I was changing something else like adding heel stack, etc.?

I'm not entirely sure the kilties are as beneficial as I'd like, especially with the thicker gusset leather. I might start viewing the gusset part as something that should be replaced with resole??? Necessary evil or too much extra expense? I guess I should call Baker's next time instead of White's, but a lot of the models they offer seem to add a bit of markup, so still not sure where I will get the couple that are more specialty builds maybe, BUT again, at least one it seems like Nick's will do just fine.

Oh, I also speculate that maybe a company like Nick's should have two divisions or something: One where they can do the more MTO / custom stuff and one where they just have the fire service boots ready to go in more sizes. The idea that they are trying to have more other selections ready to go I guess is fine, but I think then both sides of the other lose out because I don't know how they can get out enough fire boots early enough some years, etc. I've complained plenty about how if a guy is STARTING a job, he can't really WAIT several months for his shoes, but at the same time, so far I've gotten both pairs of boots from them much faster than the expected delivery date and the White's boots came a couple weeks sooner, too, but I forget what the expected date was but at the time I thought they would have more of THOSE model ready-to-ship when they did a pre-order launch, etc.

It would be easier to respond if you made each question it's own post. a post with 4 comments is pretty hard to respond to. I have to open the screen on 2 different monitors to be able to make sure I'm not forgeting anything. ---Which part blisters? The front of your foot at about the 5th eyelet? ---What do you do with your gussets? Tri-fold? Tuck in extra to the left and right? Do nothing and just let it fall where it wants? Something else? ---Usually a boot only widens where it needs to. and where it is widening is part of the equation too. So I'm not yet hearing a concern about width. ---Reuse RO as interior??? So you'd want the builder to rebuild your boots, throwaway the counter, and the vamp liner, but hold on to the outer vamp piece to reuse it as your vamp liner??? If that is the question, I don't know why you would? and if you did would you want smooth side touching your foot or RO side touching your foot? Would you want it to be a 3rd layer? Vamp, vamp liner, and the original vamp as a second liner? That is a lot of leather. Why are you thinking about this? To what end? Then you mention if doing something like "adding a heal stack, etc"? A heel stack can be done without a rebuild. Heel stack doesn't even necessarily have to involve a full resole. ---You would like your kilties to be MORE beneficial??? How? In what way? Gusset cannot be replaced with a resole at all. Generally speaking it cannot be replaced with a Rebuild either. I guess it technically could be done. I think I heard of it once. But it would be really expensive. The gusset is part of the uppers, and being about to leave the uppers intact is part of why a Rebuild is possible and affordable. Nick's won't go as custom as they used to. White's will do more custom now, and Frank's goes more custom than both of them. ---Whether Nick's does a separate division or not, they would still have the same output, so I do not see how that would make any real difference for the better. If anything a separate division could slow things down, as they couldn't use all resources at will whenever needed. There wouldn't be anything magic about another division. Same number of employees, same amount of customers, same building, same everything. So what would you change? Say X number of employees can only do work boots, and X number of employees can only do casual boots? Cuz that would literally slow things down. So I don't understand that at all. They couldn't magically hire new employees just because you separated your work force to be less efficient. If they thought more employees was a good financial decision, and those employees were available to be hired they'd have done so already regardless of having divisions.

#1 in this situation it's not "taking a chance"...it's the only way. (up until this situation my thinking mirrored yours) #2 this was told to me first hand by a Nyogel engineer after me voicing the same concerns you just did. With this connector there just isn't any choice.

The way Frank's and White's is tackling it is best. It is built in. They are using a wedge with some heel height built into it, then using a lineman shank (extra half midsole) to raise the wearers heel even more, so that the PNW lasts with lots of arch in them can be used in the build. (55, 4811, 1977, etc) What Nick's is doing with the Delta Arch, is just building a low, almost no, arch boot, and then dropping an insert into the boot to provide some arch support. There are DOZENS of companies selling drop-in arch support out there, and this is really no different. And do you know why there are sooooo many companies offering arch support inserts? Because nobody is ever happy with them. They always go wanting to try another cuz they didn't like what they got. If you really want arch inserts, just go to a podiatrist and have some custom made for you. Your insurance will probably cover it. It is the only insert worth owning. Mike did buy a set of Delta Arch Inserts, so he might be able to shed some more light....

​@@cloveroak5492Okay, I have to defend Nicks again here... they do make Delta Arch inserts that can be dropped inside any footwear you want. They function like any high-arch insert, but made better. Nicks also provides an option to have the boots built on the Delta Arch, meaning instead of having the normal flat-ish footbed of the HNW last, the footbed is now the Delta Arch and non-removable. The arch support is just slightly less than what the 55 has.

I wonder if non-gusset could be requested? They are MTO after all. And a gusset could be cut out. I have seen that done at least once. We could probably put together a UK one? 🤔 I dunno. I know it is not where either of us are at right now. We both value arch, and maybe even need arch, I know I do, and none of the auak builders do an arch. But we have both owned some UK brands, so maybe. Are their specific builders you are interested in?

@@cloveroak5492 I asked Nicks for an Officer like that and they told me no.

@@Faux_59 White's has semi gusseted tongues on some boots, maybe just the MP? Which albeit is one the less PNW esque boots made by a PNW maker

Nick's doesn't do anything custom anymore. They keep heading closer and closer to off-the-shelf boots. One reason I like them less and less everyday. The builders to ask would be Frank's or White's.

​@@cloveroak5492Nicks definitely does custom boots. Maybe not as customizable as Frank's, but you can still get creative with their MTO options. 5 of my 8 Nicks are custom builds; the others are pre-configs. The only off-the-shelf boots they carry are the ones that people send back due to sizing issues. Everything's still built to order.

It shouldn't be a surprise that some of these Indonesian builders are better than others. I've been trying to take mental notes but information is so limited it can be difficult. Do you mind sharing which builder that was?

Okay, I actually did a comparison test between my older Thursdays Captain at size US 6.5 with their dressier last, and the Solovair stitchdown boot. The Solovair at size 6UK is more narrow than the Captains at size 5.5UK effectively. What in tarnation? The more boots I wear, the less I understand my sizing lmao.