Love Aaron and Justin and enjoyed hearing their thoughts regarding the case as well as the general chat about podcasting and true crime. Great episode! I also think organising a search would be a great idea.
+Pasic TP I gotcha. I just woke up and a little slow. Yes it has been seen lots before. The woods can hide anything. In some cases they have found remains in places thought to have already been searched.
+Pasic TP That is another great point. I think its safe to say searching for anything(especially after years) in a large wooded area proves incredibly challenging.
Tarik Pasic true but she was dressed in winter clothes and carrying a backpack. At least a scrap of clothes would’ve showed up. Maybe she found a cave to try to stay warm in and died there. So sad
If you had just been asked to leave nursing school, was escorted back to your dorm room from your nursing job for breaking a rule, then got into a car wreck twice in 3 days, you would probably want to avoid facing the music & take off too. The sad thing about this case is that neither of her parents said "Time Out" or "What is going on with you?" or "You need help" or just "Come home." Sad.
she could have ran off after they went back inside their houses, especially if she thought they were calling the police. obviously if she was taken they wouldn't have seen it because the kidnapper isn't going to do that where there would be witnesses.
I love this episode! I am into paranormal stuff as well. I am fan of Coast to Coast too. I do wish more searches would be conducted for Maura, who knows maybe if they searched 5.5 miles or 6 miles out she would have been found. Not knowing when someone you love is concerned is the worst feeling in the world.
I'm new to this, just finished episode 25. I'm wondering if anyone had ever brought up the fact that she was in a nursing program when this happened??? I am a registered nurse and was in nursing school the same time as Maura. Nursing programs are designed to break you. They are designed to weed people out. The failure rate is higher than any other bacheloriate level program (and keep in mind a failing grade is 74%). It is not uncommon for nursing students to have psychological breaks. Has this ever been addressed? Do we know how she was doing in her program?
This was my favorite episode so far... I think having more people discussing the case really helped create all the scenarios of what could have happened to Maura. Everyone has their own opinion or idea of what happened to her and I think a lot of people find her case fascinating (I know I do) is because people don't just magically disappear. Something or someone caused her to disappear. Even if she decided to run away from all of her problems etc, it still doesn't explain her disappearance. Yes, people do disappear and they find them years later living in another country but all the signs leading up to her disappearing I believe show that she was kidnapped. In my opinion, I just feel that Maura was unfortunately at the wrong place and time... Also, the lack of police investigation that night seriously deepens her disappearance and I just think that this is one of those rare cases where we will never find out what truly happened to Maura, sadly. In your previous episodes, something really sticks out to me and I haven't been able to shake it off so far is where one of the psychics said that there was a negative or a bad energy surrounding this case, I truly believe that. That one psychic really hit it on the nail about this case being so fascinating is because I feel that people know more than they are willing to talk... I feel that there are a few people hiding information about her last moments but are afraid of coming out to say it. And unfortunately when you have that, finding her will never happen. But that's just my opinion and how I feel.
Even if she wanted to survive, if MM was drunk (with a possible head injury) and ended up in the woods, I don't think all the survival training in the world would have helped her much. In my experience drunks have a hard enough time just finding their way into their own bed. Expecting a woman in a stretch of forest she's unfamiliar with in the heart of winter to survive when it's possible she was drunk, injured, and possibly underdressed seems like a stretch to me.
And you can go for miles on New Hampshire roads without seeing a damn street light. It would be really hard to navigate in a pitch black and unfamiliar forest.
Just for some perspective: I am also a 21 year old girl like Maura was and I think I can relate to a lot of aspects of her personality. I can say that if it were me in her situation, I more than likely would’ve refused help from butch Atwood, 1. Because he sounds like a huge guy, and I would probably instinctually feel threatened, as us women are taught from day one to be constantly vigilant in order to defend ourselves and 2. I feel as if it’s just in women’s nature to refuse help. I feel as if women very much feel an internalized need to not be a burden, and I can definitely see that in Maura from comments Fred has made about her. I think Maura panicked and refused help from Butch because she was intimidated, but also maybe she thought there was a way she could get herself out of this. I think after a couple minutes it was probably clear that her car wasn’t gonna run well, it was stuck in the snow, and/or she was too drunk to drive so maybe at that point she admitted to herself that she needed to find a way out of there.
Hey Lance and Tim, I live 20 miles from Haverhill NH, I like what you guys do, I think someone took her and did whatever to her. I believe it would have been easy for someone to offer her a ride without anyone seeing her get into a car. Up here theres alot of creeps. Im 30 years old and have lived in Warren NH my whole life. I love my surrounding towns but there are alot of creepy people up here. Keep up the good work you guys. I am curious on who the witness A is that saw the 001 haverhill suv that was supposed to be out of service or something. I believe that person and I dont even know them. everyone knows the difference between a sedan and a suv for christ sake. I hope they find out what happened to maura, if someone did pick her up just to give her a ride cuz she hitch hiked, i could see how if the person did not attend on hurting her or killing her, i could see if the person tried to sexually assault her and she refused and put of a fight and then the person killed her, Alot of people up around here carry guns in there vehicles for hunting and what not and alot of house are in the middle of no where. Anyways this is my theory of what happened to her because i dont think she could not talk to one of her friends or family for 12 years. I hope the FBI takes over the case cuz the law enforcement up here are sketchy.
If Maura ran away because of bad decisions, I think she would have calmed down eventually and at least make contact with her father and/or other members of her family.
OMG, I have just now started to listen to this episode and you already gave me goosebumps. Few days ago, I had a dream about Maura. It never happened before, but now that you've said it, wow, what a coincidence. I was telling everybody at work about it and how weird it felt. Not a bad dream, but you know, unexpected. If there are more people dreaming about her, I wonder what their experience was. In my case, I was hosted by someone close to her, and we were getting ready to go and search for her, with a presumption that she couldn't have just vanished. There had to be clues. And, after trailing some imaginary woods, we found what the other person whom I really don't know how it was considered to be a glass bottle from her car. He was saying that the bottle could have easily stayed there all this time. I still don't know what triggered the dream....
Imma Gunna Bealright Yes thank you Its about time someone says this!!! People sure discount other witnesses but not him. Yet he has changed his story many times. He is who last saw her..
All four of you guys sound very similar. I went to listen to one of their podcasts and if i didn't know better I would've thought it was Lance and Tim (which is a good thing).
Hey guys I just recently stumbled on this case of the disappearance of Maura Murray from watching a Top 5 strange disappearances on RUclips a week ago and I'm already on to Episode 26 of your podcast! This particular episode got to me don't get me wrong those other episodes definitely give good clues and tips,but I for some reason I have I am not worried about Maura having been a victim of someone else! After what I just heard I can't believe that there wasn't a extensive search in the forests. I do believe she did run away with the details given about her minset prior to her disappearance! Is there a way that you can do a facial recognition search to find a match she would definitely have changed her Identity but there would still be matches or even a close match to Maura Murray and then you can find out if she is living in Canada or any other place that maybe she's always talked about like if growing up she ever had a dream place or vacation. People will always hold on to that!
thought it was far fetched that she could of just ran off and Starged a new.life until I watched an episode of disapeareed about a young lady who went and made a new life. she was a troubled girl and still had her same name and everything and was found 6 years later. it can happen!
was that the one with that idiot who went down to texas taking nothing with her, and telling nobody and then when found said she didn't know anyone was looking for her(!)?
Why is the case so obsessive? the short window time frame, like a weird movie. she vanishes in a few minutes. Occam's Razor tells me the perpetrator was probably a cop or someone that lives within a one-mile radius of accident sght.: Someone that no one would ever suspect.
Mark Brown typically the last person who saw them and spoke to them. that or suicide which is both taboo in this case for some reason. it's just not romantic and exciting enough which is sad.
So I just started listening this week. After I saw the trailer on oxygen. I have a few questions. If they think she may have crashed at Walmart we're videos checked? 2004 isn't that long ago they had street cameras have those been checked? It may show if she had someone with her. If they do a search I would look for the car keys they won't deteriorate just rusty. I just find it odd that in a point in time where almost everywhere has security cameras there is no available known footage.
That woman's comment in the previous episode that further up the road there are about 5 houses followed by 23 miles with none really speaks to the increasing absurdity of the staged accident/running away forever theory. Instead of doing that in the 23 mile stretch, she would do that where people could see her, and then call the police? Since no one would have been around she could have just abandoned her car without even crashing it.
If she really did hit that guy with her car, maybe she broke down, packed up her room and skipped town in anticipation of getting kicked out of school for hit-and-run (she wouldn't know that he would be in a coma), and she ran because she was so stressed and wanted time to breath before the law caught up with her.
The distinction is she was allowed to withdraw after being found guilty of violating WP honor code. Julie Murray has addressed this publicly as she was a character witness for her sister.
Interesting timing for me to listen to this. They were talking about her possibly having a head injury. I'm listening to this, just as the news that Bob Saget died from a brain bleed. He banged his head, and must not have thought it was that bad, and died in his sleep. Maybe this happened to Maura. Whatever head trauma she suffered might have been worse than it appeared. Maybe she wandered off and eventually succumbed to the elements.
the biggest problem was the footing. When Maura vanished, the cops interpreted this as leaving the scene of an accident, which is probably a misdemeanor in the state of New Hampshire.
Wouldn’t her friend Kate’s dad in jail have connections? what if someone offered to disappear her... doesn’t mean they were on the up and up, but you can’t rule it out completely!
If she did decide to run down the road , being a long distance runner for a division one NCAA college, she should be very capable of running 3.1 miles less than 20 minutes or averaged 7 minutes per mile up 6 miles. her eyes would adjust to the dark, although she would lugging a backpack;... she would make serious time on foot. so the five-mile radius search would have been pointless curious if she had a sleeping bag and warm coat?.
Maura Murray was unable to anticipate that ordering pizza with a stolen credit card number would bring police to the same address as the deliveryman. The idea that she purposefully orchestrated her own immaculate disappearance is a fantasy.
+TheMJWarren Such a good point. "Survivor mode" - living moment to moment, doing whatever it takes to get through another day, not always making rational decisions and even acting recklessly. To me, Maura was gutsy - troubled, but with an iron will.
I have a hard time with the "she hit rock bottom with the last car wreck" theory. If she was as driven as they say, especially with her dad driving her, a couple of car wrecks would not seem to be the "straw that broken the camel's back." It seems more likely that she was frustrated or stressed and looked for a way to escape for a few days. I have gone on trips that I didn't tell my family about. I don't think that is terribly significant.
To settle for calling something paranormal rather than exploring or accepting real world possibilities and explanations is a declaration of ignorance and inability/unwillingness to look deeper for concrete evidence or acknowledge that there are naturally occurring events one does not or can not understand (either as an individual or mankind as a species). That, or refusal of reality because it isn't as sexy as fantasy. To say something like Dyatlov Pass was the result of something paranormal is akin to saying that lightning is Zeus's spears hitting the earth.- amusing, but ultimately a spectacular display of ignorance, and in scenarios where people are hurt and/or die, insulting to give the same weight to ridiculous and baseless superstition as to scientific theory actually supported by evidence and research. It's the diminishment of real human suffering and loss, to shrug and say "a wizard did it." Or worse, to belligerently INSIST it was paranormal. People deserve real investigation, not the dead ends and false leads that prescription to the paranormal provides. If not for closure, then to prevent future calamities. I love reading and hearing about the paranormal. But it has no place in explanations for real world tragedies.
the part where you talk about her being chased, yes she probably was a fast runner, yes she probably could run 5 miles without a sweat, but the chasing part... (I don't want to get too far into this but) Its not a simple game of tag. Its a life threatening situation, have you ever had someone chase you intending to do harm? I'm a pretty fast runner myself but if someone was chasing me, my body would probably tense up, I would probably have goosebumps everywhere and barely be able to even move...
Listening to this one...first time. I don't see her giving up. She was smart. She was full of life & competitive. She was a conditioned runner. Yes...she did some dumb stuff but this girl was tough. Astronomical odds or not, I believe someone got her unaware by gaining her trust. In a situation where she couldn't run. If she could've...she would have had a chance. She was fast. Like her dad said on 107 degrees. Its just my opinion.
Just a thought, but didn't she spend the Christmas holiday with Bill? Is it possible that the late night phone call to him on Friday night was her informing him she was pregnant and he took it BAD, resulting in her breakdown and dismissal from work (she may have also told her sister earlier and she was not supportive either)? This may be the secret that the family and friends want to be kept quiet and why they are not speaking with any of the alt media? Maybe she hooked up with some guy at the party and the friends and family don't want her to look promiscuous considering her situation? Also, maybe after a few drinks she had the courage to tell her dad about the pregnancy, which is why she insisted on going to see him after the party (he father was already disappointed about her being dismissed from West Point)? She was reluctant about having him buy her a new (used) car due to her guilt about the unintended pregnancy, which is why they spent the day shopping for cars but did not eventually purchase one. After the car accident she lost her confidence to tell him the truth and decided to get out of town to think about her options (and be out of cell phone service so she was not tempted to call Bill or receive his calls), the rest is ????
+Porkchops and Applesauce Also, I am imaging a scenario where Bill questions whether he is even the father and possibly insulting Maura's morals or fidelity which prompts her to find and print the email about him cheating on her in the past. If Maura was bulimic and taking BC pills (which many women this age do) her vomiting may have resulted in their ineffectiveness. Maybe he thought she was trying to trap him (her being a nursing student and becoming "accidentally" pregnant) and he was particularly nasty about it. I see how easy it is to become interested in this case, I feel like I can relate to Maura in some ways (nursing student, quiet and living with secretes and shame). I know this is total conjecture on my part, but now I know why people are obsessed with this case. I hope she is living a quiet life in Canada, but unfortunately I am thinking she came across something sinister out there in the woods.
Interesting fact: to date, Havervill only had five registered sex offenders which encompass two zip codes population 4700; not many dirtbags on the books.
MMP, You mentioned a backpack may have been found. Is that a rumor you've heard? If so, will you say more about that. What did you hear? Who said what? Can you hunt down the source of the rumor?
+jeanne dardor www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2014/01/28/maura-murray/3/ "On November 1, a man calling himself “Tom Davies” logged onto Anderson’s site and asked, “What color was Maura’s backpack?” “Black,” was the reply. “Why do you ask?” “I ask because about a year after Maura disappeared, I found a black backpack in the woods behind the bathrooms at the Pemigewasset Overlook.” Davies went on to say that after he found the backpack, he informed a state trooper, but had heard nothing since. Could the backpack still be up there? “Being a father with several daughters,” Davies wrote, “I’ve been haunted by Maura’s disappearance.” A week later, a commenter named NHRider asked, “Was the area not far from the road? I am going to take a ride up there today and look.” An hour and a half later, NHRider posted again: “Holy Crap!! I almost crapped my pants! Tom is legit. I just got back from the Pemi overlook and I found the black backpack.” NHRider said he contacted the authorities and gave them directions to find the backpack, which was around 30 miles from where Maura was last seen. He said he didn’t have a camera with him so he didn’t take any photos, but reported that the bag was empty and “frozen solid.” He claimed that when he went back to the scene the following day the backpack was gone, presumably taken by the cold-case unit. All Strelzin will say is that “we are aware of the backpack.” It’s impossible to know whether it was a real clue, a red herring, or part of some loony Internet game..."
the backpack gnaws at me too. we know she had one. apparently she took it with her (assuming she was behind the wheel on Rte112) if so, she took it with her when she franticly exited the vehicle. what the heck could have been in it? ya don't need a backpack for a cell phone.... she left a diamond necklace in the Saturn but took the backpack? supposedly shaken & trying to "flee" the scene ~ but took the time to put booze in the backpack??? doesn't jive. .....were there things in the backpack to help her change her looks/identity?
+TheMJWarren I'm not sure we know 100% for a fact that she had a backpack on her. It's stated that the police believed she had one, but where did that originate? Were they given a description of her at the scene with that? I don't recall reading it, if so, but would very much like to. Were they going on the description of her having it when she left her dorm? Maybe she didn't have it with her at the accident site. Who knows? As far as she "took the time to put booze in the backpack"; according to Haverhill Police (via Renner) no alcohol was missing from the car. mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011/07/no-alcohol-missing.html "Official word from Haverhill PD: all booze was accounted for. Vodka. Baileys. Wine. Maura left it all behind in the car."
Though in a later post, from Scarinza: mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/01/scarinza-speaks.html ""My sense is that she might have gotten a ride. But we don't know her ultimate destination. It's interesting that her backpack was missing from her car. That some liquor was missing." It's one of those details where the water is so muddy I'm not sure any aspect of it is 100% clear.
This is only an idea/opinion of mine but some do pack up and do things before suicide to make it easier for the family. To not be a burden. Like packing up a room, getting the forms for the Dad, gas could have been so they could get the car back..who knows. This is morbid but my cousin put his mattress on the floor, laid on it and shot himself in the head so it would be easier clean up for family... people do things like this. I am NOT saying she was going to kill herself.. I'm just saying people do these things that others are quick to say mean the person wouldn't have done that. There's a reason her family has been the one to bring up suicide saying she wiuldbt do this, after they first brought it up. I hope it isn't the case but aside from that, then most likely it's the person who last saw and spoke to her which evetone seems to just take his word. Now he's dead and we will never know unless she's found whatever living or bones, and tests can be done that answer these questions which sadly may never be answered Even with her body found. That's just heartbreaking because her Dad deserves answers no matter what they are! Can't imagine his pain and most likely guilt which is common like last arguements and things left unsaid. He needs some peace in his life and closure as does her entire family. I pray she is resting in peace. of course her starting a new life is romantic and more exciting but also the least likely..
What if the airbag didn't go off immediately? She could have hit her head on the window shield then the airbag could've gone off. ruclips.net/video/QS6ywFGcLSk/видео.html I've hit my head on a window shield during an accident and hit it hard enough to be distressed but there wasn't any blood. I was in an Explorer so obviously it's a different type of vehicle, but my head hit the top of the window shield. May have to deal with my height too. I believe I hit my head right around the top of my forehead. I was wearing a seatbelt. My car didn't angle down. I was rear-ended. Same thing, I would think, could happen from a head-on crash. You really never know how the body can be tossed around during any type of crash.
She could run that in ideal conditions. She had consumed alcohol, was in winter clothes, carrying a backpack in an area with no road lights. That’s why I think she got into a car. It was too intimidating to go into those woods
first why should the locals have their lives disrupted by someone who clearly was at least spiraling out of control? and i am sure if she was ugly or black you guys wouldnt care as much, you always seem to focus on beautiful young white woman, which i a fine with, but that explains the fascination.
The song at the beginning of this episode gives me chills every time I hear it.
"We're big fans of the paranormal, we just don't believe in it" - Great quote. Feel the same way.
Love Aaron and Justin and enjoyed hearing their thoughts regarding the case as well as the general chat about podcasting and true crime. Great episode! I also think organising a search would be a great idea.
I absolutely think more searches should be done.
***** What has been seen before?
+Pasic TP I gotcha. I just woke up and a little slow. Yes it has been seen lots before. The woods can hide anything. In some cases they have found remains in places thought to have already been searched.
+Pasic TP Very true. Good point.
+Pasic TP That is another great point. I think its safe to say searching for anything(especially after years) in a large wooded area proves incredibly challenging.
Tarik Pasic true but she was dressed in winter clothes and carrying a backpack. At least a scrap of clothes would’ve showed up. Maybe she found a cave to try to stay warm in and died there. So sad
If you had just been asked to leave nursing school, was escorted back to your dorm room from your nursing job for breaking a rule, then got into a car wreck twice in 3 days, you would probably want to avoid facing the music & take off too. The sad thing about this case is that neither of her parents said "Time Out" or "What is going on with you?" or "You need help" or just "Come home." Sad.
Where did you learn she was asked to leave nursing school?
Is this true ? I think you have your facts wrong
"And then he went off the fucking rails on us"
"They always do..."
Classic.
so the neighbors saw everything except the part of her leaving or getting taken ..Bullshit
+Candance Hines I agree
she could have ran off after they went back inside their houses, especially if she thought they were calling the police. obviously if she was taken they wouldn't have seen it because the kidnapper isn't going to do that where there would be witnesses.
I love this episode! I am into paranormal stuff as well. I am fan of Coast to Coast too.
I do wish more searches would be conducted for Maura, who knows maybe if they searched 5.5 miles or 6 miles out she would have been found. Not knowing when someone you love is concerned is the worst feeling in the world.
I'm new to this, just finished episode 25. I'm wondering if anyone had ever brought up the fact that she was in a nursing program when this happened??? I am a registered nurse and was in nursing school the same time as Maura. Nursing programs are designed to break you. They are designed to weed people out. The failure rate is higher than any other bacheloriate level program (and keep in mind a failing grade is 74%). It is not uncommon for nursing students to have psychological breaks. Has this ever been addressed? Do we know how she was doing in her program?
This was my favorite episode so far... I think having more people discussing the case really helped create all the scenarios of what could have happened to Maura. Everyone has their own opinion or idea of what happened to her and I think a lot of people find her case fascinating (I know I do) is because people don't just magically disappear. Something or someone caused her to disappear. Even if she decided to run away from all of her problems etc, it still doesn't explain her disappearance. Yes, people do disappear and they find them years later living in another country but all the signs leading up to her disappearing I believe show that she was kidnapped. In my opinion, I just feel that Maura was unfortunately at the wrong place and time... Also, the lack of police investigation that night seriously deepens her disappearance and I just think that this is one of those rare cases where we will never find out what truly happened to Maura, sadly. In your previous episodes, something really sticks out to me and I haven't been able to shake it off so far is where one of the psychics said that there was a negative or a bad energy surrounding this case, I truly believe that. That one psychic really hit it on the nail about this case being so fascinating is because I feel that people know more than they are willing to talk... I feel that there are a few people hiding information about her last moments but are afraid of coming out to say it. And unfortunately when you have that, finding her will never happen. But that's just my opinion and how I feel.
I feel like I'm in the *twilight zone * !
Exactly!
Even if she wanted to survive, if MM was drunk (with a possible head injury) and ended up in the woods, I don't think all the survival training in the world would have helped her much. In my experience drunks have a hard enough time just finding their way into their own bed. Expecting a woman in a stretch of forest she's unfamiliar with in the heart of winter to survive when it's possible she was drunk, injured, and possibly underdressed seems like a stretch to me.
And you can go for miles on New Hampshire roads without seeing a damn street light. It would be really hard to navigate in a pitch black and unfamiliar forest.
Just for some perspective: I am also a 21 year old girl like Maura was and I think I can relate to a lot of aspects of her personality. I can say that if it were me in her situation, I more than likely would’ve refused help from butch Atwood, 1. Because he sounds like a huge guy, and I would probably instinctually feel threatened, as us women are taught from day one to be constantly vigilant in order to defend ourselves and 2. I feel as if it’s just in women’s nature to refuse help. I feel as if women very much feel an internalized need to not be a burden, and I can definitely see that in Maura from comments Fred has made about her. I think Maura panicked and refused help from Butch because she was intimidated, but also maybe she thought there was a way she could get herself out of this. I think after a couple minutes it was probably clear that her car wasn’t gonna run well, it was stuck in the snow, and/or she was too drunk to drive so maybe at that point she admitted to herself that she needed to find a way out of there.
Hey Lance and Tim, I live 20 miles from Haverhill NH, I like what you guys do, I think someone took her and did whatever to her. I believe it would have been easy for someone to offer her a ride without anyone seeing her get into a car. Up here theres alot of creeps. Im 30 years old and have lived in Warren NH my whole life. I love my surrounding towns but there are alot of creepy people up here. Keep up the good work you guys. I am curious on who the witness A is that saw the 001 haverhill suv that was supposed to be out of service or something. I believe that person and I dont even know them. everyone knows the difference between a sedan and a suv for christ sake. I hope they find out what happened to maura, if someone did pick her up just to give her a ride cuz she hitch hiked, i could see how if the person did not attend on hurting her or killing her, i could see if the person tried to sexually assault her and she refused and put of a fight and then the person killed her, Alot of people up around here carry guns in there vehicles for hunting and what not and alot of house are in the middle of no where. Anyways this is my theory of what happened to her because i dont think she could not talk to one of her friends or family for 12 years. I hope the FBI takes over the case cuz the law enforcement up here are sketchy.
Hasn't anyone heard of airbags breaking windshields or is it just me!?
Yes, a massive amount of people online are talking about their experiences with airbags breaking windows.
If Maura ran away because of bad decisions, I think she would have calmed down eventually and at least make contact with her father and/or other members of her family.
OMG, I have just now started to listen to this episode and you already gave me goosebumps. Few days ago, I had a dream about Maura. It never happened before, but now that you've said it, wow, what a coincidence. I was telling everybody at work about it and how weird it felt. Not a bad dream, but you know, unexpected. If there are more people dreaming about her, I wonder what their experience was. In my case, I was hosted by someone close to her, and we were getting ready to go and search for her, with a presumption that she couldn't have just vanished. There had to be clues. And, after trailing some imaginary woods, we found what the other person whom I really don't know how it was considered to be a glass bottle from her car. He was saying that the bottle could have easily stayed there all this time.
I still don't know what triggered the dream....
1:02:00 - "You start bending your narrative to fit your theory. And you're gonna end up looking stupid." Ahem, Renner.
why take what the bus driver stated as the gossip truth? i dont believe in anything he said what happened or what Maura might have said to him!
I don't believe you.
I'm way more suspicious of the guy who wouldn't allow police to search his land.
Imma Gunna Bealright what's gossip truth?
Imma Gunna Bealright Yes thank you Its about time someone says this!!! People sure discount other witnesses but not him. Yet he has changed his story many times. He is who last saw her..
Yes!
All four of you guys sound very similar. I went to listen to one of their podcasts and if i didn't know better I would've thought it was Lance and Tim (which is a good thing).
Hey guys I just recently stumbled on this case of the disappearance of Maura Murray from watching a Top 5 strange disappearances on RUclips a week ago and I'm already on to Episode 26 of your podcast!
This particular episode got to me don't get me wrong those other episodes definitely give good clues and tips,but I for some reason I have I am not worried about Maura having been a victim of someone else! After what I just heard I can't believe that there wasn't a extensive search in the forests. I do believe she did run away with the details given about her minset prior to her disappearance! Is there a way that you can do a facial recognition search to find a match she would definitely have changed her Identity but there would still be matches or even a close match to Maura Murray and then you can find out if she is living in Canada or any other place that maybe she's always talked about like if growing up she ever had a dream place or vacation. People will always hold on to that!
I believe the cop that "WASN'T" there took her.
Possible, but then what happened?
That's the whole problem- too many possibilities.
Am I the only one who hears frogs and crickets in the background with one of the mics 😂😂😂😂😂
thought it was far fetched that she could of just ran off and Starged a new.life until I watched an episode of disapeareed about a young lady who went and made a new life. she was a troubled girl and still had her same name and everything and was found 6 years later. it can happen!
was that the one with that idiot who went down to texas taking nothing with her, and telling nobody and then when found said she didn't know anyone was looking for her(!)?
Why is the case so obsessive? the short window time frame, like a weird movie. she vanishes in a few minutes. Occam's Razor tells me the perpetrator was probably a cop or someone that lives within a one-mile radius of accident sght.: Someone that no one would ever suspect.
Mark Brown typically the last person who saw them and spoke to them. that or suicide which is both taboo in this case for some reason. it's just not romantic and exciting enough which is sad.
So I just started listening this week. After I saw the trailer on oxygen. I have a few questions. If they think she may have crashed at Walmart we're videos checked? 2004 isn't that long ago they had street cameras have those been checked? It may show if she had someone with her. If they do a search I would look for the car keys they won't deteriorate just rusty. I just find it odd that in a point in time where almost everywhere has security cameras there is no available known footage.
That woman's comment in the previous episode that further up the road there are about 5 houses followed by 23 miles with none really speaks to the increasing absurdity of the staged accident/running away forever theory. Instead of doing that in the 23 mile stretch, she would do that where people could see her, and then call the police? Since no one would have been around she could have just abandoned her car without even crashing it.
Maybe things went wrong, and Maura had to improvise.
She always faced up to her mistakes and was horrible at hiding them...I could see her get into a car she thought was a police car....
Evelyn Jackson like the psychic said ..she got into the car , they were saying we can help you ..then she soon realised they were not helping!!!
If she really did hit that guy with her car, maybe she broke down, packed up her room and skipped town in anticipation of getting kicked out of school for hit-and-run (she wouldn't know that he would be in a coma), and she ran because she was so stressed and wanted time to breath before the law caught up with her.
She didn't get kicked out of West Point, she withdrew herself. There is a distinction.
The distinction is she was allowed to withdraw after being found guilty of violating WP honor code.
Julie Murray has addressed this publicly as she was a character witness for her sister.
Interesting timing for me to listen to this. They were talking about her possibly having a head injury. I'm listening to this, just as the news that Bob Saget died from a brain bleed. He banged his head, and must not have thought it was that bad, and died in his sleep. Maybe this happened to Maura. Whatever head trauma she suffered might have been worse than it appeared. Maybe she wandered off and eventually succumbed to the elements.
and does the bus driver smoke?
Imma Gunna Bealright He died of cancer so he possibly did!
the biggest problem was the footing. When Maura vanished, the cops interpreted this as leaving the scene of an accident, which is probably a misdemeanor in the state of New Hampshire.
Wouldn’t her friend Kate’s dad in jail have connections? what if someone offered to disappear her... doesn’t mean they were on the up and up, but you can’t rule it out completely!
Sorry guys about my grammar I was in a rush I have to out in 10 minutes!
If she did decide to run down the road , being a long distance runner for a division one NCAA college, she should be very capable of running 3.1 miles less than 20 minutes or averaged 7 minutes per mile up 6 miles. her eyes would adjust to the dark, although she would lugging a backpack;... she would make serious time on foot. so the five-mile radius search would have been pointless curious if she had a sleeping bag and warm coat?.
Yeah but it was in the 30s; snow was on the ground; and she was carrying a back pack.
Did they check the barn? Did she have hiking shoes, water resistant shoes? Did she have appropriate coats?
Do we have any idea where she was originally heading? What is up 112 if she were to continue up that way? What was her plan of destination?
Maura Murray was unable to anticipate that ordering pizza with a stolen credit card number would bring police to the same address as the deliveryman. The idea that she purposefully orchestrated her own immaculate disappearance is a fantasy.
+Bill Occam My impression is MM did whatever she had to do to get by. I get the feeling she is always in survivor mode... btw, MP is this you?
+TheMJWarren Such a good point. "Survivor mode" - living moment to moment, doing whatever it takes to get through another day, not always making rational decisions and even acting recklessly. To me, Maura was gutsy - troubled, but with an iron will.
That's a great point, and since that's such a dumb and trivial card fraud i wonder if she did it thinking she would pay her roommate back for it.
I read the police report pertaining to this incident, and it appears that the legit cardholder and MM did not know each other.
@@TheMJWarren MP=Maury Povich?
I have a hard time with the "she hit rock bottom with the last car wreck" theory. If she was as driven as they say, especially with her dad driving her, a couple of car wrecks would not seem to be the "straw that broken the camel's back." It seems more likely that she was frustrated or stressed and looked for a way to escape for a few days. I have gone on trips that I didn't tell my family about. I don't think that is terribly significant.
To settle for calling something paranormal rather than exploring or accepting real world possibilities and explanations is a declaration of ignorance and inability/unwillingness to look deeper for concrete evidence or acknowledge that there are naturally occurring events one does not or can not understand (either as an individual or mankind as a species). That, or refusal of reality because it isn't as sexy as fantasy.
To say something like Dyatlov Pass was the result of something paranormal is akin to saying that lightning is Zeus's spears hitting the earth.- amusing, but ultimately a spectacular display of ignorance, and in scenarios where people are hurt and/or die, insulting to give the same weight to ridiculous and baseless superstition as to scientific theory actually supported by evidence and research. It's the diminishment of real human suffering and loss, to shrug and say "a wizard did it." Or worse, to belligerently INSIST it was paranormal. People deserve real investigation, not the dead ends and false leads that prescription to the paranormal provides. If not for closure, then to prevent future calamities.
I love reading and hearing about the paranormal. But it has no place in explanations for real world tragedies.
That road has a pond at the end? Was it froze over at the time? Has the pond been drained?
the part where you talk about her being chased, yes she probably was a fast runner, yes she probably could run 5 miles without a sweat, but the chasing part... (I don't want to get too far into this but) Its not a simple game of tag. Its a life threatening situation, have you ever had someone chase you intending to do harm? I'm a pretty fast runner myself but if someone was chasing me, my body would probably tense up, I would probably have goosebumps everywhere and barely be able to even move...
Listening to this one...first time. I don't see her giving up. She was smart. She was full of life & competitive. She was a conditioned runner. Yes...she did some dumb stuff but this girl was tough. Astronomical odds or not, I believe someone got her unaware by gaining her trust. In a situation where she couldn't run. If she could've...she would have had a chance. She was fast. Like her dad said on 107 degrees. Its just my opinion.
Have there been more searches in past few months
Just a thought, but didn't she spend the Christmas holiday with Bill? Is it possible that the late night phone call to him on Friday night was her informing him she was pregnant and he took it BAD, resulting in her breakdown and dismissal from work (she may have also told her sister earlier and she was not supportive either)? This may be the secret that the family and friends want to be kept quiet and why they are not speaking with any of the alt media? Maybe she hooked up with some guy at the party and the friends and family don't want her to look promiscuous considering her situation? Also, maybe after a few drinks she had the courage to tell her dad about the pregnancy, which is why she insisted on going to see him after the party (he father was already disappointed about her being dismissed from West Point)? She was reluctant about having him buy her a new (used) car due to her guilt about the unintended pregnancy, which is why they spent the day shopping for cars but did not eventually purchase one. After the car accident she lost her confidence to tell him the truth and decided to get out of town to think about her options (and be out of cell phone service so she was not tempted to call Bill or receive his calls), the rest is ????
+Porkchops and Applesauce Also, I am imaging a scenario where Bill questions whether he is even the father and possibly insulting Maura's morals or fidelity which prompts her to find and print the email about him cheating on her in the past. If Maura was bulimic and taking BC pills (which many women this age do) her vomiting may have resulted in their ineffectiveness. Maybe he thought she was trying to trap him (her being a nursing student and becoming "accidentally" pregnant) and he was particularly nasty about it. I see how easy it is to become interested in this case, I feel like I can relate to Maura in some ways (nursing student, quiet and living with secretes and shame). I know this is total conjecture on my part, but now I know why people are obsessed with this case. I hope she is living a quiet life in Canada, but unfortunately I am thinking she came across something sinister out there in the woods.
butch atwood was a decent man, but maura was running from the police. she would have been charged with drink driving as we say here in the UK.
Bet Making a murderer 2 changed your mind. ❤️ Snapshot in time
Did they do a grid search a mile to 10 miles out???
Interesting fact: to date, Havervill only had five registered sex offenders which encompass two zip codes population 4700; not many dirtbags on the books.
She wasnt trained on hypothermia
MMP, You mentioned a backpack may have been found. Is that a rumor you've heard? If so, will you say more about that. What did you hear? Who said what? Can you hunt down the source of the rumor?
+jeanne dardor
www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2014/01/28/maura-murray/3/
"On November 1, a man calling himself “Tom Davies” logged onto Anderson’s site and asked, “What color was Maura’s backpack?”
“Black,” was the reply. “Why do you ask?”
“I ask because about a year after Maura disappeared, I found a black
backpack in the woods behind the bathrooms at the Pemigewasset
Overlook.”
Davies went on to say that after he found the backpack, he informed a
state trooper, but had heard nothing since. Could the backpack still be
up there? “Being a father with several daughters,” Davies wrote, “I’ve
been haunted by Maura’s disappearance.”
A week later, a commenter named NHRider asked, “Was the area not far
from the road? I am going to take a ride up there today and look.”
An hour and a half later, NHRider posted again: “Holy Crap!! I almost
crapped my pants! Tom is legit. I just got back from the Pemi overlook
and I found the black backpack.”
NHRider said he contacted the authorities and gave them directions to
find the backpack, which was around 30 miles from where Maura was last
seen. He said he didn’t have a camera with him so he didn’t take any
photos, but reported that the bag was empty and “frozen solid.” He
claimed that when he went back to the scene the following day the
backpack was gone, presumably taken by the cold-case unit. All Strelzin
will say is that “we are aware of the backpack.” It’s impossible to know
whether it was a real clue, a red herring, or part of some loony
Internet game..."
+Alex C Wow. Thank you for this reply.
the backpack gnaws at me too. we know she had one. apparently she took it with her (assuming she was behind the wheel on Rte112) if so, she took it with her when she franticly exited the vehicle. what the heck could have been in it? ya don't need a backpack for a cell phone.... she left a diamond necklace in the Saturn but took the backpack? supposedly shaken & trying to "flee" the scene ~ but took the time to put booze in the backpack??? doesn't jive. .....were there things in the backpack to help her change her looks/identity?
+TheMJWarren I'm not sure we know 100% for a fact that she had a backpack on her. It's stated that the police believed she had one, but where did that originate? Were they given a description of her at the scene with that? I don't recall reading it, if so, but would very much like to. Were they going on the description of her having it when she left her dorm? Maybe she didn't have it with her at the accident site. Who knows?
As far as she "took the time to put booze in the backpack"; according to Haverhill Police (via Renner) no alcohol was missing from the car.
mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011/07/no-alcohol-missing.html
"Official word from Haverhill PD: all booze was accounted for. Vodka. Baileys. Wine. Maura left it all behind in the car."
Though in a later post, from Scarinza:
mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/01/scarinza-speaks.html
""My sense is that she might have gotten a ride. But we don't know her ultimate destination. It's interesting that her backpack was missing from her car. That some liquor was missing."
It's one of those details where the water is so muddy I'm not sure any aspect of it is 100% clear.
Why would she bring her backpack if she wanted to go die? Just to carry the booze?
This is only an idea/opinion of mine but some do pack up and do things before suicide to make it easier for the family. To not be a burden. Like packing up a room, getting the forms for the Dad, gas could have been so they could get the car back..who knows. This is morbid but my cousin put his mattress on the floor, laid on it and shot himself in the head so it would be easier clean up for family... people do things like this. I am NOT saying she was going to kill herself.. I'm just saying people do these things that others are quick to say mean the person wouldn't have done that. There's a reason her family has been the one to bring up suicide saying she wiuldbt do this, after they first brought it up. I hope it isn't the case but aside from that, then most likely it's the person who last saw and spoke to her which evetone seems to just take his word. Now he's dead and we will never know unless she's found whatever living or bones, and tests can be done that answer these questions which sadly may never be answered Even with her body found. That's just heartbreaking because her Dad deserves answers no matter what they are! Can't imagine his pain and most likely guilt which is common like last arguements and things left unsaid. He needs some peace in his life and closure as does her entire family. I pray she is resting in peace. of course her starting a new life is romantic and more exciting but also the least likely..
Wait, Laci Peterson's sister thinks Scott is innocent? Am I hearing that right?
No, Scott's brother's wife.
What if the airbag didn't go off immediately? She could have hit her head on the window shield then the airbag could've gone off.
ruclips.net/video/QS6ywFGcLSk/видео.html
I've hit my head on a window shield during an accident and hit it hard enough to be distressed but there wasn't any blood. I was in an Explorer so obviously it's a different type of vehicle, but my head hit the top of the window shield. May have to deal with my height too. I believe I hit my head right around the top of my forehead. I was wearing a seatbelt. My car didn't angle down. I was rear-ended. Same thing, I would think, could happen from a head-on crash. You really never know how the body can be tossed around during any type of crash.
maura could have ran 1mile in 5 mins. i believe her best time was 1 mile in 510.
She could run that in ideal conditions. She had consumed alcohol, was in winter clothes, carrying a backpack in an area with no road lights. That’s why I think she got into a car. It was too intimidating to go into those woods
@@Runz32 yes, i agree.
I doubt her bones could be found anymore if she did get lost in the woods
first why should the locals have their lives disrupted by someone who clearly was at least spiraling out of control? and i am sure if she was ugly or black you guys wouldnt care as much, you always seem to focus on beautiful young white woman, which i a fine with, but that explains the fascination.
If some locals are suspicious, and questions seem disruptive, so be it! If someone knows, then that someone needs to talk.