You guys are heroes. When Maura is found I do hope you do another case. And I can't thank-you enough for adding a woman's voice. I believe your hard work will bring closure to this family.
Not trying to be a troll. But nothing here was nothing we (who have researched) didn't already know. You guys do pretty good work. A little constructive criticism. When doing a podcast. Get to the freaking point. You guys are smart and gifted guys. But too much nonsense IMO. This is not a personal attack of any kind. Just give us the useful facts. Or anything useful in terms of theories. I don't care that you picked out a place to eat before they cancelled on you lol. Sometimes I listen and I am just waiting on you to say something valuable. And I have to wait like 10 minutes lol. Again, I am a subscriber. I like your work. Just get to the point guys lol.
My heart really goes out to this family and everyone involved. I am blown away by everything you guys have done. If you would like more folks to know about this story in NH you might want to consider coming by The Porcupine Freedom Festival and speaking. It is the largest liberty based festival in the world and many folks who live in NH will be there. I can maybe still get you guys a speaking spot if you are interested, but we would have to hurry on it. I just feel the more folks know about this the better and it might be a good way to talk about how frustrated you are with the state's lack of investigation.
I just learned about crawlspace , love the coverage by both of you. I best understood this case with the interview of her brother. He sealed the case. Let's hope she is found some day. Great job.
"Missing Persons" may be an official title of a type of investigation. In that case, the words would be capitalized. I don't see any significance to that capitalization.
I can totally see not answering some of those questions because of it being an open investigation...At least now they are willing to admit either A) Foul play or B) a crime has been committed. Those were some pretty good detailed questions !
It's difficult to pour concrete in February because setting concrete is a water-based reaction. When the temperature is below freezing, water will be solid instead of liquid and will not react as easily.
Yep. Makes no sense. Sharon's explanation is that she herself had contacted the Red Cross the night before to let them know Billy needed Emergency Leave and at that time she didn't give the Red Cross Billy's cell phone number. But of course the Red Cross would be following up the next morning and getting a hold of Billy if he needed emergency leave. And the red cross has worked hand in hand with the military for years. they could easily get billys contact info from billy's unit.
Investigators make a critical revelation: “Maura’s room was orderly, and some items appeared to be packed. Items were not in any sort of disarray.” As the host notes, that describes the rooms of my house precisely, and I’m not going anywhere - in other words, no conclusions about Maura’s intentions or state of mind may be drawn from this. The “fact” of the fully packed dorm room was the cornerstone of the suicide and off-to-Canada theories. Proponents should now ask themselves why they invested so much trust in what appears to be hearsay repeated by journalists.
+Bill Occam this didn't come from "hearsay" or sloppy journalism and suicide was not something that the lead investigator implied (about the note) when briefing the FBI about the case in the following below: "By Monday morning, Feb. 9th Maura had packed up all her belongings in her dorm room at U-Mass, putting everything neatly in boxes and putting all the boxes on her bed along with a personal note she had recently received from her boyfriend. She went on the Internet and looked up directions and overnight accommodations in the Bartlett, NH area as well as Burlington, VT area. She withdrew most of her money from her personal bank account. She sent e-mails to her supervisor at work as well as a college professor saying she would be absent from work and school for a week due to a death in the family." This was an actual police released statement after submitting (at the time) everything they had on Maura's case to the FBI to see if the FBI would want to jump in and investigate Maura's disappearance. The FBI chose not too. This suicide implication pertaining the note was actually started by family members that IMO were trying to get out in front of having to explain away that note that was found. The lead investigator always referred to it as a personal note left from Maura to Billy which then changed to a personal note she had recently received from her boyfriend. Nothing about suicide. So who was the first person(s) to bring up suicide? Family. Why is the real question that should be addressed. This latest podcast episode only established one real thing to me (most of it was heavily speculation based). The thing it established to me was that some 12 years later, investigators still have no clue what happened to Maura and actually stated so several times in the podcast.
+Clint Harting Fair enough. But you do agree there is a world of difference between the entire room being packed and “some items,” no? To say "items were not in any sort of disarray" when a room is fully and neatly packed would be intentionally misleading. Presumably in twelve years the state police have had time to get this detail right.
+Bill Occam It comes down to what you believe. A investigator who actually was hands on with Maura's case and had to brief the FBI with an evidence drop and then carefully craft a release to the public immediately following in the very first few months after Maura went missing when all information was fresh. Or do you believe the state's attorney who IMO is more concerned protecting the image and practices of law enforcement and preventing father's of missing children the ability to go through a court and force police to release information to them. This isn't one of those gray area type of things IMO. Packing up all your belongings, putting everything neatly in boxes and putting those boxes on your bed along with a personal note (which in other interviews, he described as being placed on top of the boxes) in no way shape or form can be confused with Maura's room was orderly and some items appeared to be packed. It's an either or type answer. And I know whom I believe.
+Dan Da I believe the actual folks that worked on Maura's case (Scarinza, Landry, etc.) They had to brief the FBI and the public in the very first few months after Maura went missing. A big production took place with law enforcement from both Vermont and New Hampshire meeting up for a Joint press release. The press release consisted of all releasable information for both Maura's case and Brianna Maitland's case. I will note that Maitland's investigators were way more organized with their information drop, but nevertheless, New Hampshire released a lot of information about Maura's case as well and where they were at currently. They talked about Maura's dorm room being completely packed up among other things. Here is a link (If I am allowed to provide it) www.mauramurraymissing.com/VTSPNHSPPressconference060804.htmlI believe them more than the current crop of folks. I think they IMO are more concerned about procedural protocol and making sure they protect law enforcement from lawsuits than they are about the details of this case. But again, that is my opinion
The reason he would capitalize Missing Person is because it’s so common in his job it’s considered a Proper Noun. See I just did it and didn’t mean to because of the subject. We do it with Computers and in the Information Technology field as so many topics become proper nouns. It’s not always because it’s a proper noun but the action or verb might just be THAT important to the sentence. I do Tech Support and notice I do it in my notes all the time with terms like Computer, Network, Mobile Phone etc etc ie Chrome not Loading, Rebooted PC, Tested Chrome, ensured Website was Loading correctly, Issue Resolved. I had read a good article about why it’s common in the IT industry and it had a few examples of why but it was most to emphasize or due to the importance of the word. It transitions from a normal word to an important word without something like holding or capitalizing.
Glad to hear they are thinking of releasing the ATM footage, but why did it take so long? They are "close" to releasing it?? After 12 years? Makes me wonder if it shows something interesting...if it were just Fred withdrawing money i'd think they would have released it sooner
Actions speak louder than words. On the night she disappears Maura is drinking and driving, repeating the same behavior that caused her to crash her father's new car. She has already been told by a judge that she needs to stay out of trouble for six months or face prosecution for credit card theft. Therefore Maura's drinking and driving the night of February 9, 2004 tells us: A) She's just trying to clear her head. B) She's obviously making a fresh start. C) She's in a self-destructive frame of mind.
You are correct about all of this but Tim and Lance aren't talking about this stuff anymore which is problematic, in my opinion. They need to focus on all of this again instead of catering to John Smith and making this The John Smith Podcast.
It's all the police reports. Maura stops at a liquor store early in her drive and buys $40 of alcoholic beverages. There's video of her buying them in a store. The receipt was found in her car. Police found an open bottle of red wine and alcohol mixed in the soda she had in the cup holder.
Ok, Bigwave!!... there is WAY too much MIS-INFO here!! This is what Tim and Lance are always talking about that is making it so hard to get to the bottom of things!! There is NO video of Maura buying the booze, but the receipt WAS found in the car. And it was actually a BOX of Franzia red wine that was sitting behind the driver's seat, , and the police allegedly found that soda bottle with some 'pink liquid' in it UNDER the car. Now, straighten up, Bigwave!!! Please do your best to help stop the confusion. Thanks :D
I really enjoyed this clip. It was nice to hear Marley's viewpoint on the abduction chances. Since she is an investigator and not a fan like us nice to hear her input. I have mixed feelings going ahead. I really enjoy this podcast and I don't want it to end but I really hope there is closure for the family.
As for the capitalization of missing persons, in law enforcement, there's often Missing Persons Units and Divisions and what not. Probably just a habit of referring to it that way. I don't think it's anything to read into OR think is incorrect.
No one talking in the comments about her going to the ATM, earlier than originally reported... That was a biggie. That being said.. they teased us with the ATM video. No way they're going to release it now, after 12.5 years. There is a reason why it's not released. And have always thought it was to not embarrass Fred, or the family... and maybe she was looking haggard, or there was visible distress. ie. bruising, cuts etc
I was unaware of the handler knowing how far the dogs would go!! I still think that the house and the whole knife thing are strange. Maybe there should be another search done of the whole area around the accident site! Would a large group of volunteers need permission to do that?
Great episide!! However I always have the same questions after each episode! Who owns the A-frame house now? Would the new owners be willing to let anyone search it or the property? Is there anybody who would go search it? Then what about the tracking dogs who lost the scent? If they lost the scent it definitely leaves open the idea that she got into a vehicle and the idea that maybe Atwood might have known more than previously stated! Finally when was the search of the area around there done? A big search A sweep of the woods or surrounding areas??
+sybil v I don't know anything about current ownership. However, at the time it was searched no one was living there. Fred Murray actually convinced the realtor to let him have access to it for a weekend. He brought his own hired investigators and informed the media ahead of time that they were going to search it. The evidence collected that day never made it to police as I understand it. And there are all kinds of stories out there for why it didn't. I think Fred and at least one or two of his investigators had a falling out as I understand it. It is likely that Maura got into a vehicle, but the dog that lost her scent wasn't the proof of that. The dog handler working the scent that day knew his dog was only going to be able to track for about 100-yards because of the time of the year, time that had passed and cross-winds along that stretch of road. The dog actually stopped and sat right at the intersection of Bradley Hill RD and Rt. 112 (a likely place where scent would be lost and scattered with car traffic moving three different ways) and the dog-searcher concluded that Maura left the scene of her accident on foot and headed east. But that is all the dog searcher concluded. They did pick up Maura's scent right from her car and they did see Maura's footprints in the snowbank where her car had wrecked.I am going off memory, the search with the dog (initial search) was a few days after Maura went missing. A real search involving cadaver dogs was done a couple of years later (during same weekend I think that the A-Frame house was searched). They brought in very skilled dogs from a neighboring state if I am recalling right.
+The Chercheur That's the thing though...it's no more difficult than normal, it's just uncomfortable for the crew...as far as the actual process, it's no different.
+The Chercheur point taken...I'm from Ohio so I just assumed it was similar too the location she was last seen, I could be wrong. I'm still of the notion that Forcier is very suspicious and have followed this case for about a year, but have read that he was a very upstanding man...but my instinct just feels something isn't right.
+The Chercheur Olsen now has a Web page that is dedicated too her case and was said too have only posted his suspicious videos too regenerate the public awareness of her case. Whether that is true I don't know but I just can't see her actual killer deciding to come public with hints after 12 years
if her scent stopped after 100 yards could that mean she was picked up on the road. if you had a crash you wouldn't leave your car too far knowing you could get help
Are the convening of grand juries often not made public (i know what they talk about isn't)? Maybe it depends on the case, or in what state it is? Does anyone know?
gracias a dios, no hay ningún seguidor de dross aquí, porque si hubieran estarían fastidiando con sus comentarios de "quien viene por dross" o solo comentarían puras cosas que no tienen nada que ver con el tema
Thank you for getting this lady on. This voice was greatly needed on this podcast. Great episode.
You guys are heroes. When Maura is found I do hope you do another case. And I can't thank-you enough for adding a woman's voice. I believe your hard work will bring closure to this family.
Amazing job, everybody! Glad to see things are still moving forward.
Not trying to be a troll. But nothing here was nothing we (who have researched) didn't already know. You guys do pretty good work. A little constructive criticism. When doing a podcast. Get to the freaking point. You guys are smart and gifted guys. But too much nonsense IMO. This is not a personal attack of any kind. Just give us the useful facts. Or anything useful in terms of theories. I don't care that you picked out a place to eat before they cancelled on you lol. Sometimes I listen and I am just waiting on you to say something valuable. And I have to wait like 10 minutes lol. Again, I am a subscriber. I like your work. Just get to the point guys lol.
CaptainJamesTKirk007 i agree 100%
Great episode! Really glad they are releasing the ATM footage
If it hasn't been released to date, I don't see them releasing it at all....
My heart really goes out to this family and everyone involved. I am blown away by everything you guys have done. If you would like more folks to know about this story in NH you might want to consider coming by The Porcupine Freedom Festival and speaking. It is the largest liberty based festival in the world and many folks who live in NH will be there. I can maybe still get you guys a speaking spot if you are interested, but we would have to hurry on it.
I just feel the more folks know about this the better and it might be a good way to talk about how frustrated you are with the state's lack of investigation.
I just learned about crawlspace , love the coverage by both of you. I best understood this case with the interview of her brother. He sealed the case. Let's hope she is found some day. Great job.
"Missing Persons" may be an official title of a type of investigation. In that case, the words would be capitalized. I don't see any significance to that capitalization.
I can totally see not answering some of those questions because of it being an open investigation...At least now they are willing to admit either A) Foul play or B) a crime has been committed. Those were some pretty good detailed questions !
+Sweet Suzy Those two are the same thing : )
+Garden Client Oh jeeze , I really airheaded on this one !!! sorry will have to listen again to remember what my B) was !!! Lol
@@brigids_daughtersweetsuzy9713 lol
It's difficult to pour concrete in February because setting concrete is a water-based reaction. When the temperature is below freezing, water will be solid instead of liquid and will not react as easily.
Why is Billy's mom doubtful about the conclusion it was the Red Cross calling Billy?
Yep. Makes no sense. Sharon's explanation is that she herself had contacted the Red Cross the night before to let them know Billy needed Emergency Leave and at that time she didn't give the Red Cross Billy's cell phone number. But of course the Red Cross would be following up the next morning and getting a hold of Billy if he needed emergency leave. And the red cross has worked hand in hand with the military for years. they could easily get billys contact info from billy's unit.
Investigators make a critical revelation: “Maura’s room was orderly, and some items appeared to be packed. Items were not in any sort of disarray.” As the host notes, that describes the rooms of my house precisely, and I’m not going anywhere - in other words, no conclusions about Maura’s intentions or state of mind may be drawn from this. The “fact” of the fully packed dorm room was the cornerstone of the suicide and off-to-Canada theories. Proponents should now ask themselves why they invested so much trust in what appears to be hearsay repeated by journalists.
+Bill Occam this didn't come from "hearsay" or sloppy journalism and suicide was not something that the lead investigator implied (about the note) when briefing the FBI about the case in the following below:
"By Monday morning, Feb. 9th Maura had packed up all her belongings in her dorm room at U-Mass, putting
everything neatly in boxes and putting all the boxes on her bed along with a personal note she had recently
received from her boyfriend. She went on the Internet and looked up directions and overnight accommodations
in the Bartlett, NH area as well as Burlington, VT area. She withdrew most of her money from her personal bank
account. She sent e-mails to her supervisor at work as well as a college professor saying she would be absent
from work and school for a week due to a death in the family."
This was an actual police released statement after submitting (at the time) everything they had on Maura's case to the FBI to see if the FBI would want to jump in and investigate Maura's disappearance. The FBI chose not too.
This suicide implication pertaining the note was actually started by family members that IMO were trying to get out in front of having to explain away that note that was found. The lead investigator always referred to it as a personal note left from Maura to Billy which then changed to a personal note she had recently received from her boyfriend. Nothing about suicide. So who was the first person(s) to bring up suicide? Family. Why is the real question that should be addressed.
This latest podcast episode only established one real thing to me (most of it was heavily speculation based). The thing it established to me was that some 12 years later, investigators still have no clue what happened to Maura and actually stated so several times in the podcast.
+Clint Harting Fair enough. But you do agree there is a world of difference between the entire room being packed and “some items,” no? To say "items were not in any sort of disarray" when a room is fully and neatly packed would be intentionally misleading. Presumably in twelve years the state police have had time to get this detail right.
+Bill Occam It comes down to what you believe. A investigator who actually was hands on with Maura's case and had to brief the FBI with an evidence drop and then carefully craft a release to the public immediately following in the very first few months after Maura went missing when all information was fresh. Or do you believe the state's attorney who IMO is more concerned protecting the image and practices of law enforcement and preventing father's of missing children the ability to go through a court and force police to release information to them. This isn't one of those gray area type of things IMO. Packing up all your belongings, putting everything neatly in boxes and putting those boxes on your bed along with a personal note (which in other interviews, he described as being placed on top of the boxes) in no way shape or form can be confused with Maura's room was orderly and some items appeared to be packed. It's an either or type answer. And I know whom I believe.
+Clint Harting who do you believe when it comes to that?
+Dan Da I believe the actual folks that worked on Maura's case (Scarinza, Landry, etc.) They had to brief the FBI and the public in the very first few months after Maura went missing. A big production took place with law enforcement from both Vermont and New Hampshire meeting up for a Joint press release. The press release consisted of all releasable information for both Maura's case and Brianna Maitland's case. I will note that Maitland's investigators were way more organized with their information drop, but nevertheless, New Hampshire released a lot of information about Maura's case as well and where they were at currently. They talked about Maura's dorm room being completely packed up among other things. Here is a link (If I am allowed to provide it) www.mauramurraymissing.com/VTSPNHSPPressconference060804.htmlI believe them more than the current crop of folks. I think they IMO are more concerned about procedural protocol and making sure they protect law enforcement from lawsuits than they are about the details of this case. But again, that is my opinion
The reason he would capitalize Missing Person is because it’s so common in his job it’s considered a Proper Noun. See I just did it and didn’t mean to because of the subject. We do it with Computers and in the Information Technology field as so many topics become proper nouns. It’s not always because it’s a proper noun but the action or verb might just be THAT important to the sentence. I do Tech Support and notice I do it in my notes all the time with terms like Computer, Network, Mobile Phone etc etc ie Chrome not Loading, Rebooted PC, Tested Chrome, ensured Website was Loading correctly, Issue Resolved. I had read a good article about why it’s common in the IT industry and it had a few examples of why but it was most to emphasize or due to the importance of the word. It transitions from a normal word to an important word without something like holding or capitalizing.
Glad to hear they are thinking of releasing the ATM footage, but why did it take so long? They are "close" to releasing it?? After 12 years? Makes me wonder if it shows something interesting...if it were just Fred withdrawing money i'd think they would have released it sooner
Actions speak louder than words. On the night she disappears Maura is drinking and driving, repeating the same behavior that caused her to crash her father's new car. She has already been told by a judge that she needs to stay out of trouble for six months or face prosecution for credit card theft. Therefore Maura's drinking and driving the night of February 9, 2004 tells us:
A) She's just trying to clear her head.
B) She's obviously making a fresh start.
C) She's in a self-destructive frame of mind.
You are correct about all of this but Tim and Lance aren't talking about this stuff anymore which is problematic, in my opinion. They need to focus on all of this again instead of catering to John Smith and making this The John Smith Podcast.
+Bigwave2003 Do you have proof she was drinking? Is that a fact?
+opportunistic dirtbag - Your jealousy is showing. Best tuck that back in.
It's all the police reports. Maura stops at a liquor store early in her drive and buys $40 of alcoholic beverages. There's video of her buying them in a store. The receipt was found in her car. Police found an open bottle of red wine and alcohol mixed in the soda she had in the cup holder.
Ok, Bigwave!!... there is WAY too much MIS-INFO here!! This is what Tim and Lance are always talking about that is making it so hard to get to the bottom of things!! There is NO video of Maura buying the booze, but the receipt WAS found in the car. And it was actually a BOX of Franzia red wine that was sitting behind the driver's seat, , and the police allegedly found that soda bottle with some 'pink liquid' in it UNDER the car.
Now, straighten up, Bigwave!!! Please do your best to help stop the confusion. Thanks :D
I really enjoyed this clip. It was nice to hear Marley's viewpoint on the abduction chances. Since she is an investigator and not a fan like us nice to hear her input. I have mixed feelings going ahead. I really enjoy this podcast and I don't want it to end but I really hope there is closure for the family.
As for the capitalization of missing persons, in law enforcement, there's often Missing Persons Units and Divisions and what not. Probably just a habit of referring to it that way. I don't think it's anything to read into OR think is incorrect.
Well goddamn it's about time we get a new video.
No one talking in the comments about her going to the ATM, earlier than originally reported... That was a biggie.
That being said.. they teased us with the ATM video. No way they're going to release it now, after 12.5 years. There is a reason why it's not released. And have always thought it was to not embarrass Fred, or the family... and maybe she was looking haggard, or there was visible distress. ie. bruising, cuts etc
jesus, they didn't answer anything.. if they were looking to stop speculation, mission not accomplished :p lol
I was unaware of the handler knowing how far the dogs would go!! I still think that the house and the whole knife thing are strange. Maybe there should be another search done of the whole area around the accident site! Would a large group of volunteers need permission to do that?
Great episide!! However I always have the same questions after each episode! Who owns the A-frame house now? Would the new owners be willing to let anyone search it or the property? Is there anybody who would go search it? Then what about the tracking dogs who lost the scent? If they lost the scent it definitely leaves open the idea that she got into a vehicle and the idea that maybe Atwood might have known more than previously stated! Finally when was the search of the area around there done? A big search A sweep of the woods or surrounding areas??
Someone, or some entity, has to own it or the property it sits on....
+sybil v I don't know anything about current ownership. However, at the time it was searched no one was living there. Fred Murray actually convinced the realtor to let him have access to it for a weekend. He brought his own hired investigators and informed the media ahead of time that they were going to search it. The evidence collected that day never made it to police as I understand it. And there are all kinds of stories out there for why it didn't. I think Fred and at least one or two of his investigators had a falling out as I understand it. It is likely that Maura got into a vehicle, but the dog that lost her scent wasn't the proof of that. The dog handler working the scent that day knew his dog was only going to be able to track for about 100-yards because of the time of the year, time that had passed and cross-winds along that stretch of road. The dog actually stopped and sat right at the intersection of Bradley Hill RD and Rt. 112 (a likely place where scent would be lost and scattered with car traffic moving three different ways) and the dog-searcher concluded that Maura left the scene of her accident on foot and headed east. But that is all the dog searcher concluded. They did pick up Maura's scent right from her car and they did see Maura's footprints in the snowbank where her car had wrecked.I am going off memory, the search with the dog (initial search) was a few days after Maura went missing. A real search involving cadaver dogs was done a couple of years later (during same weekend I think that the A-Frame house was searched). They brought in very skilled dogs from a neighboring state if I am recalling right.
No one asked them not to read the questions that weren't answered, although no questions were answered at all.
I've worked in concrete pouring, the winter theory of being difficult is a crock. I live in Ohio and we poured year round if there was business.
+The Chercheur That's the thing though...it's no more difficult than normal, it's just uncomfortable for the crew...as far as the actual process, it's no different.
+The Chercheur point taken...I'm from Ohio so I just assumed it was similar too the location she was last seen, I could be wrong. I'm still of the notion that Forcier is very suspicious and have followed this case for about a year, but have read that he was a very upstanding man...but my instinct just feels something isn't right.
+The Chercheur Also....in duress and if foul play occured, if concrete needed too be poured I'm sure too avoid being caught you could accomplish it.
+The Chercheur Olsen now has a Web page that is dedicated too her case and was said too have only posted his suspicious videos too regenerate the public awareness of her case. Whether that is true I don't know but I just can't see her actual killer deciding to come public with hints after 12 years
+The Chercheur ummmm not right off hand but I found a link a week or so ago that was a host page of his name that another blogger linked
if her scent stopped after 100 yards could that mean she was picked up on the road. if you had a crash you wouldn't leave your car too far knowing you could get help
Why did was it reliable up to 100 yards?
Red Cross where? Why?
"opportuhnitay"
How did they know she was wearing a dark jacket and carrying a BLACK BACKPACK if no one saw her leave the seen of the accident.
Are the convening of grand juries often not made public (i know what they talk about isn't)? Maybe it depends on the case, or in what state it is? Does anyone know?
Really ..? Well I have emailed you and still have not gotten a response from you all.
gracias a dios, no hay ningún seguidor de dross aquí, porque si hubieran estarían fastidiando con sus comentarios de "quien viene por dross" o solo comentarían puras cosas que no tienen nada que ver con el tema