Very true, I strongly feel that this is a possibility. I just try and think how a human naturally thinks, if I ever made someone disappear I would want to be following up on the case. Human curiosity at its worst. I just wish there was an easier way to monitor who keeps up to date with this and who seems to be knowledgeable on the subject. I highly doubt she left on her own, this day and age it's very hard to disappear and go unnoticed. I also realize it could have been just bad luck, like someone driving and seeing her walking and took her. It could have been someone's built up perversion that caused this. Wrong place wrong time. If that is the case this will never be solved unfortunately :(
So right now so far my theory is she packed for just the weekend, bought a LOT of alcohol to go party at the party cabin and there was a person she was following there, she wrecked, the person drove back and picked her up. She had so many wrecks that it's possible she had a concussion and fell asleep and died, with alcohol as a contributing factor. The person covered up her death because they were either married or young&dumb and didn't want to get in trouble. That's what I have so far.
Rick Graves confirms that the volunteer search was skewed to look downhill on the assumption they were looking for a murdered Maura Murray and her belongings having been "dumped" there. But if Maura ran into the forest of her own free will after the accident and wanted to make sure the police weren't following her, she would likely go up to higher ground. From that vantage point she would have undisturbed time to commit suicide with a mixture of alcohol and pills. (Remember, Maura was a nursing student.)
I didn't sense that all from Mr. Graves'es answers. Mr. Graves said that they were searching for any piece of evidence (without thinking about specific theories). And when he was talking about downhill, he was referring to things that are tossed which often will roll down and not roll up. It was only assumed that he was thinking about abductions, but over and over he answered that he was looking for anything they could find (alcohol, bones, clothing) it was the questions asked to him that were forcing him to confront abduction or suicide. He wasn't thinking about either of those theories IMO when he was trying to explain
While Graves says the searchers had no fixed theory and were just looking for anything, it's clear from his comments that they were operating under a "group think": Maura was likely abducted. We will look downhill because an abductor might toss liquor bottles, clothing, or even Maura's body. No attention was paid to where Maura might have gone to commit suicide, which might lead to higher ground. They simply dismissed the suicide theory. No surprise since suicide is a mortal sin in the Catholic Church. Given the choice of his daughter's disappearance being a mystery or a suicide, Fred Murray will take a mystery every time.
Lore Muhler lmao renners an idiot. I don't buy much of what John Smith says .I Ithink the podcasts guys, while trying to be helpful , are throwing out too many diff theories none of which have led to finding Maura or any new leads. There's no point in going over the what ifs and rehashing old theories because it doesn't get us any closer to finding her. The only ones that seem to have any logic in all this are art and Maggie period. And just because you don't like my opinion im suppose to stop listening ? Nah lol. Who finds an alcohol bottle and doesn't tag and bag it? Pftt.
I remember seeing a Dateline special on Maura's case maybe four or five years ago and being chilled to my core. It's a terrifying story. The more I've listened to these podcasts though and been watching the Oxygen docuseries, the most logical scenario to me seems that she was driving drunk, crashed the car, and fled the scene-nothing extraordinary. The alcohol in her car and the spilled wine both inside and outside the car are enough to convince me of this. Beyond that, the only two possibilities are that she a) hurt herself/succumbed to the elements somewhere in the woods, or b) met with a bad person out there who took advantage of her. In either scenario, her being impaired would have been a significant factor. If there was no second party involved, then her being drunk would have staved off her feeling the elements, and she could have stumbled too far into the woods; drunk people often feel they're warm when they're actually not. If there was a second party involved, her being impaired could have led to her to trust someone she shouldn't have. Long story short, it seems to me that either someone killed her and disposed of her body, or she is lying somewhere in the woods. After listening to this recollection of the searches, I honestly feel like she could have been overlooked, even if they searched the 20-mile-radius he claims. Chandra Levy's remains sat in a public park for over a year before someone noticed-crazier things have happened. I'm not entirely convinced that she is not somewhere near the crash site. In the wilderness, it's very easy for a person to be literally consumed by the environment. I hope her family can find her and get closure, and if my suspicions are true, I pray her last moments weren't filled with terror.
Regardless of the various theories...it still surprises me that none of the items on Maura's person were ever found. Interesting episode. Keep shaking that apple tree.
Why wouldn't they have taken that bottle to the police? Knowing that Maura had purchased alcohol, there could have been fingerprints on the bottle. Seems odd to me that they would just dismiss that it could possibly be evidence, and just note that it was a good place to search.
I'm quite sure there was no evidence collected that night. Cruiser 001 was on the scene prior to the dispatched officer. The suv cruiser 001 was auctioned with an estimated 27,000 miles for a low price of $2,500 which I will try to double check.
In a student-teacher relationship and if they were going to spend time together, would have taken 2 separate vehicles because they wouldn't want to be seen in a vehicle together by anyone.
That's a good point, especially on the subject of the "affair" being with her track coach, she ran track in HIGH SCHOOL. they would've needed to keep it hush hush.
So he see's a bottle of vodka on the side of the road and doesnt take it? They knew Maura had alcohol. He said the bottle just looked like it had been thrown from a moving vehicle, wtf? thats not a reason to not bag it. Its a bottle that looked new and fresh, I have no idea why he wouldnt take it. He said he found it on 'winekiln rd', or something like that? he kind of mumbles his words, hard to tell, its at 23:50. he said this road is by Bradley Hill rd and French pine rd, but those two roads are a 40 minute walk from each other. I have yet to find a street that sounds like 'winekiln rd' anywhere inbetween them. This guy doesnt add up. Also, they were looking for Maura as if she had been abducted, and so never went up hills to look, are you kidding me? everywhere they went, they went down hill searching because nobody drags a body up hill. They should have looked for her as if she wandered away on her own. This is pathetic. NO professionals were helping looking for Maura around the time it mattered. She was let down by law enforcement and these so called 'trackers'.
Is there a source for this piece of information Clint? A link preferably. I'd like to read that, as I hadn't heard mention of it before and was interested by Mr. Graves saying that Kathleen might have seen the ATM/liquor store footage, and commenting on her shoes.
A police officer would be the only person that could make someone disappear Without a Trace... the FBI needs to find out why there were time gaps in police officer Bruce McKay's call logs right around the time Maura Murray went missing until that happens Bruce McKay is my Prime Suspect
WTF. you find a fresh vodka bottle.. You knew she was involved with booze. But you just take note of it. That makes no bloody sense. If you're going on a search.. bring Ziploc bags.. and gloves. And bring the bottle in for fingerprints. That pissed me off. The whole point of doing the search is to collect ANY evidence you can find. I don't know what to make of this guy, and his time with Fred
May I also add, he is saying the exact same copy cat lines of what Fred is saying. .... "It doesn't matter what she was doing beforehand etc etc etc" That was Fred's constant tag line. Fred has trained this guy well.
"Trespassers Will Be Shot" "If my uncle was here, he'd shoot you" Nice! That's some real Northern hospitality for you. /s I understand that a landowner might get away with that in Texas, but I wonder if that would fly in New Hampshire.
NH’s motto is live free or die and it attracts and breeds a lot of militia types. People up there are obsessed with property rights. You set one toe on their property and the owner is threatening you. I spent a lot of time up there as a kid. There are some odd characters.
Any one would be frustrated if u had 2 car accidents in 3 days wouldnt that send u to a dark place. She didnt go up there and drink herself to death. She hadnt planned to crash it happened. How discouraged would one be i hope yall upgraded the phone towers dayum
I can only take about 3 minutes of the non stop stammering. You guys should have done some heavy editing on this. this could have been a 15 min episode. Horrible interview.
In reference to her email, something I've never heard suggested.... When she said there was a death in her family... Maybe she was speaking of herself? If you believe she was enroute to commit suicide..(whether she made it there or not). It doesn't change anything but it makes me wonder.
+Pasic TP I think you mean would have, she could have gone to New Hampshire to commit suicide, I think it would be silly to argue that. However, I don't personally think she would have or did for that matter. Its just another one of those rabit holes that has just enough evidence that throws the possibly out there, but not enough to prove it.
+Ts0usermax so you must be the newest troll on the scene. Nice to meet you, I'm honored that you took time out of your day to make an unjustified and false accusation against me. I only comment under this name so maybe it would be more beneficial to direct your attention elsewhere in this case.
She may not have been headed to the cabin. But, it could be that she was searching for a place and she just hadn't thought about that place until after she had already called searching.
I think she realized she couldn't afford those places with the cash she had, so she headed for the cabin instead, but drunkenly didn't make it and froze to death on her way there. If she was walking, she could have taken a short cut through the woods since she had experience as a hiker.
+Brittany Stansel I agree partiality, I don't have a theory that I'm willing to commit to. I think the cabin was her last option. I don't think she went into the woods and froze, she could have, I just don't personally think she did. I've always wondered if she wasn't meeting someone.
The cabin was about 30 minutes by car away.. Maybe 29 miles away. .there's a video of MAURA 'S accident seen and the trip to the cabin...no way could she have walked it
Im sorry but this guy Graves didn't seem to have his act together. He sounded half intoxicated and a lot of maybes , cant remember and not sure comments. I also have to wonder at the common sense and competence of him and the others searching for Maura back then. They find a empty vodka bottle that looks freshly tossed or dropped and no one thought to bag and tag it for the police, just left it there. Yet he say's later they were looking for anything including "alcohol bottles". Talk about a epic fail and it's sad because that could have been such a important clue/lead. I am also baffled and amazed that with all the people over the years including police, private investigators, friends and family searching and investigating that no one every found out about this cabin. Just seems surreal. Another important clue missed. God knows what other mistakes were made like these.
+The Chercheur Lol, yeah you're right. It's my opinion and mindset that keeps this case from being solved. If you read your reply out loud, you probably will realize how moronic and ridiculous it sounds. If you don't like a opinion, just keep moving along.
+Jason Whitehouse I don't know if you realize this or not, but you don't have the authority to tell people to move on if they don't like your opinion and I don't think I will. I never said your opinion specifically is what is keeping this case from being solved, I don't think your that important to the case. I do think that the closed mindset that people like you seem to adopt, could be very damaging to this case. You refusing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt over something that happened that long ago, shows your ignorance and immaturity, if you were really investigating this case, a closed mind would be something you would want to avoid.
NO MATTER what anyone's theory's are about this it's really refreshing to listen and see all this time that's gone bye people are still working VERY hard to keep this investigation strong! This is where I think people need to LOOK and not take there opinion to far and for granted!
Also now hearing about a new friend or whatever possibly having a cabin up there.... this was the week before valentine's day and ive always wondered if she went up there for an encounter or whatever and then met with foul play. Have thought that for years actually.
Great podcast. When exactly did you guys do this interview with Rick Graves? Just curious. He is a real fountain of information and good for him to to and help Fred look for Maura.
Has anyone ever suspected this guy he seems obsessed with this case, sometimes the killer will inject himself into the case . I would also suspect the guy who saw her that night the bus driver.
Ok but seriously am I the only person wanting to give this amazing man a hug. He threw himself in to help how he could for someone he doesn't even know, and having such little information about it because it was so new and had happened really right before the social media explosion and the internet. Realistically we are very spoiled at this point with how easy it is to get information we want pretty much immediately. Idk. I just think this man who walked beside the father if this missing girl searching for her and he gave up weekends to help with this and would go even if Fred couldn't make it. That is an amazingly selfless thing to do and I can only imagine the feeling after extensive searching on to find nothing. But still continuing to come and help search anyway. I wouldn't have taken the notte either but taken note of it to tell law enforcement etc because you don't know if its evidence or not. So it would be smarter to not just move possible evidence. Bag or not. Law enforcement should see where that bottle is and how it was laying there etc possible fingerprints. So just asking some of the commenters with less than nice comments... pls put yourself in his shoes in that situation. Asking nicely, don't come for me please. Not only is it amazing he came to help repeatedly, just imagine hw taxing on everyone's lives and at the end of each day having found nothing really and the impact that would have on everyone involved. Also...come on guys...its been years since these searches and his very close involvement. Seriously.... and it was said and also he CLEARY needed to distance himself from this case. As we all know it can kind of take over because of the mystery and questions...imagine having been there and obviously as the days go by it is common sense to look for signs of her and common sense as you keep searching and find nothing...ever...eventually your mind is going to start to lose a little hope. And they arent wrong. Now there is speculation on why she went up there its a twisted enigma. At that time....she is missing....thats what matters at first.
That little comment about the party cabin followed by the "Ya, because Umass doesn't have enough places to party" was pretty funny. For anyone who has never been there, the Umass campus is overwhelming in size. It is essentially a it's own little city. I went there for a recruiting visit for football and I was immediately shocked just how large the actual campus was. Anyway, as far the Forcier statement, I think it is worth keeping in mind that when police come around to question people, they are not exactly forth-coming. Even if the cops are 100% sure that you are not a suspect, they tend to be very vague. They may approach someone like him and basically say that there was a traffic incident and that they are just following up with people who live in the vicinity and ask what they saw. I understand why the cops are with-holding with the people they question but I think it can result in information being glossed over. I wasn't there but my guess is, the cops didn't go around and say "Hey, there was an abandoned car that crashed on the side of the road last night and the girl disappeared from the scene and is now missing. Is there anything you can tell us?" I would assume that they told Forcier as little as possible and just asked if he saw the accident or if he saw the driver of the car or if he noticed anything odd. I'm not defending the guy but it can be easy to dismiss the fact that you think you saw someone walking along the side of the road if you had no reason to pay attention to that person at the time. As far as I can tell, it wasn't unusual for residents in that area to be out and about and walking down that street. So I can kinda see why Forcier might not have mentioned that detail at the time but then it occurred to him afterwards when he was talking to the neighbor and found out that there was a missing girl who may have been trying to avoid a DUI. Just a thought tho. I try really hard not to assume guilt when these little anomalies pop up. It can be easy to view something as being incredibly suspicious after you know all the information but I don't think it is all that unusual for potential witnesses to think of something relevant later on.
so, this guy finds a vodka bottle and didn't think it was relevant? He should have stuck to planes. So freaking sad at the incompetence of so many! I'm sure this guy means well so not trying to sound mean but dang!
The theory of her following someone could be a possibility. I've followed people to a destination rather than ride with them. She bought lots of alcohol, enough for several people. Kate was missing correct? Maybe she was already at the cabin, met up with Maura so Maura could follow her to the cabin. If her dad is correct and she wasn't familiar with this particular area, this could be a theory to consider.
I think a lot of Mr. Graves after listening to him here, but when he points out that he had seen no pictures of Maura with her hair down, there are actually quite a few of her with her hair down so, although at the time of her disappearance she almost always wore it up, it is by no means unheard of for her to have worn it down.
Sarah L. Clark , o_O miss this Guys searches were Alot More intense than the stupid tv program.. They just did that show for $ and to make for hot television, trying to convince people the local police had nothing to do with it when thats exactly what could Have happened.
I can't help but think that someone who knows what happened has been watching these videos all along.
.... Or someone who has been a frequent guest and contributer... someone who was there since day 1...
Very true, I strongly feel that this is a possibility. I just try and think how a human naturally thinks, if I ever made someone disappear I would want to be following up on the case. Human curiosity at its worst. I just wish there was an easier way to monitor who keeps up to date with this and who seems to be knowledgeable on the subject. I highly doubt she left on her own, this day and age it's very hard to disappear and go unnoticed. I also realize it could have been just bad luck, like someone driving and seeing her walking and took her. It could have been someone's built up perversion that caused this. Wrong place wrong time. If that is the case this will never be solved unfortunately :(
Who is John Smith for $500.00
CROOKED COPS....
Always felt this way, i would stake my life on it.
So right now so far my theory is she packed for just the weekend, bought a LOT of alcohol to go party at the party cabin and there was a person she was following there, she wrecked, the person drove back and picked her up. She had so many wrecks that it's possible she had a concussion and fell asleep and died, with alcohol as a contributing factor. The person covered up her death because they were either married or young&dumb and didn't want to get in trouble.
That's what I have so far.
This is the correct answer
Been waiting for this.
It wasn't directly stated, but can the inference be made that Maura's cell phone never pinged again outside that 15-20 mile radius?
Rick Graves confirms that the volunteer search was skewed to look downhill on the assumption they were looking for a murdered Maura Murray and her belongings having been "dumped" there. But if Maura ran into the forest of her own free will after the accident and wanted to make sure the police weren't following her, she would likely go up to higher ground. From that vantage point she would have undisturbed time to commit suicide with a mixture of alcohol and pills. (Remember, Maura was a nursing student.)
I didn't sense that all from Mr. Graves'es answers. Mr. Graves said that they were searching for any piece of evidence (without thinking about specific theories). And when he was talking about downhill, he was referring to things that are tossed which often will roll down and not roll up. It was only assumed that he was thinking about abductions, but over and over he answered that he was looking for anything they could find (alcohol, bones, clothing) it was the questions asked to him that were forcing him to confront abduction or suicide. He wasn't thinking about either of those theories IMO when he was trying to explain
While Graves says the searchers had no fixed theory and were just looking for anything, it's clear from his comments that they were operating under a "group think": Maura was likely abducted. We will look downhill because an abductor might toss liquor bottles, clothing, or even Maura's body. No attention was paid to where Maura might have gone to commit suicide, which might lead to higher ground. They simply dismissed the suicide theory. No surprise since suicide is a mortal sin in the Catholic Church. Given the choice of his daughter's disappearance being a mystery or a suicide, Fred Murray will take a mystery every time.
Good thinking.. ill check there.
Do you guys have proof his story is true?
I'm 20 mins in and nothing this guy said makes any sense yet. The nervous laugh is weird too.
Brianna Lee , then dont listen to it. He's the real deal, not Renner or oxygen!
Lore Muhler lmao renners an idiot. I don't buy much of what John Smith says .I Ithink the podcasts guys, while trying to be helpful , are throwing out too many diff theories none of which have led to finding Maura or any new leads. There's no point in going over the what ifs and rehashing old theories because it doesn't get us any closer to finding her. The only ones that seem to have any logic in all this are art and Maggie period. And just because you don't like my opinion im suppose to stop listening ? Nah lol. Who finds an alcohol bottle and doesn't tag and bag it? Pftt.
He's just drunk
I remember seeing a Dateline special on Maura's case maybe four or five years ago and being chilled to my core. It's a terrifying story. The more I've listened to these podcasts though and been watching the Oxygen docuseries, the most logical scenario to me seems that she was driving drunk, crashed the car, and fled the scene-nothing extraordinary. The alcohol in her car and the spilled wine both inside and outside the car are enough to convince me of this. Beyond that, the only two possibilities are that she a) hurt herself/succumbed to the elements somewhere in the woods, or b) met with a bad person out there who took advantage of her. In either scenario, her being impaired would have been a significant factor. If there was no second party involved, then her being drunk would have staved off her feeling the elements, and she could have stumbled too far into the woods; drunk people often feel they're warm when they're actually not. If there was a second party involved, her being impaired could have led to her to trust someone she shouldn't have. Long story short, it seems to me that either someone killed her and disposed of her body, or she is lying somewhere in the woods. After listening to this recollection of the searches, I honestly feel like she could have been overlooked, even if they searched the 20-mile-radius he claims. Chandra Levy's remains sat in a public park for over a year before someone noticed-crazier things have happened. I'm not entirely convinced that she is not somewhere near the crash site. In the wilderness, it's very easy for a person to be literally consumed by the environment. I hope her family can find her and get closure, and if my suspicions are true, I pray her last moments weren't filled with terror.
Found a vodka bottle on lime kiln road. That’s where chris Flynn went missing from in 2010.
Wasn’t there a rumor she knew someone on Lime Kiln Rd?
Regardless of the various theories...it still surprises me that none of the items on Maura's person were ever found.
Interesting episode. Keep shaking that apple tree.
That we know of
Why wouldn't they have taken that bottle to the police? Knowing that Maura had purchased alcohol, there could have been fingerprints on the bottle. Seems odd to me that they would just dismiss that it could possibly be evidence, and just note that it was a good place to search.
I'm quite sure there was no evidence collected that night. Cruiser 001 was on the scene prior to the dispatched officer. The suv cruiser 001 was auctioned with an estimated 27,000 miles for a low price of $2,500 which I will try to double check.
@@therrienmichael08 what a shame. I wonder if there's any chance of getting DNA off of it now ?
@@lorimiller4301 The suv cruiser 001 was put in a crusher. I just noticed my sentence structure was out of whack. Corrected.
I thought the same! Why didn't they take the alcohol bottle to the police?
Can someone give their thoughts ?
I would participate in a Spring time search with my Equinox 800 metal detector. Maura is seen in photos with 2 necklaces. Any rings ?
That's very kind of you. Best luck that you find something. Remember safety first, maybe livestream it ?
I'm surprised you guys didn't say anything about Rick's mention of a "red pick up truck." Probably just a coincidence, but funny to note.
In a student-teacher relationship and if they were going to spend time together, would have taken 2 separate vehicles because they wouldn't want to be seen in a vehicle together by anyone.
That's a good point, especially on the subject of the "affair" being with her track coach, she ran track in HIGH SCHOOL. they would've needed to keep it hush hush.
But they were 150+ miles north of where people they knew or that would known who they were.
Maura's story grabs a piece of your heart and won't let go 💔
So he see's a bottle of vodka on the side of the road and doesnt take it? They knew Maura had alcohol. He said the bottle just looked like it had been thrown from a moving vehicle, wtf? thats not a reason to not bag it. Its a bottle that looked new and fresh, I have no idea why he wouldnt take it. He said he found it on 'winekiln rd', or something like that? he kind of mumbles his words, hard to tell, its at 23:50. he said this road is by Bradley Hill rd and French pine rd, but those two roads are a 40 minute walk from each other. I have yet to find a street that sounds like 'winekiln rd' anywhere inbetween them. This guy doesnt add up. Also, they were looking for Maura as if she had been abducted, and so never went up hills to look, are you kidding me? everywhere they went, they went down hill searching because nobody drags a body up hill. They should have looked for her as if she wandered away on her own. This is pathetic. NO professionals were helping looking for Maura around the time it mattered. She was let down by law enforcement and these so called 'trackers'.
Maura was believed to be wearing a casual shoe (which were popular at the time) made by Dexters whom are known for their bowling shoes
Is there a source for this piece of information Clint? A link preferably.
I'd like to read that, as I hadn't heard mention of it before and was interested by Mr. Graves saying that Kathleen might have seen the ATM/liquor store footage, and commenting on her shoes.
It was on one of the missing posters
www.flickr.com/photos/65640533@N07/7579774076/in/dateposted/
you mean though they were made by bowling shoe makers They Weren't bowling shoes though? thought in the poster it looked like danners..
A police officer would be the only person that could make someone disappear Without a Trace... the FBI needs to find out why there were time gaps in police officer Bruce McKay's call logs right around the time Maura Murray went missing until that happens Bruce McKay is my Prime Suspect
call in an F B I Agent ! , Jeez
i think she's in the Aframe! or was. or in the concrete slab there. Update: OR she's up on high ground.
sign the petition, they've been trying for years
They have found bodies in places where searches have been done extensivly. The bottle of vodka, are you kidding me?
Same
WTF. you find a fresh vodka bottle.. You knew she was involved with booze. But you just take note of it. That makes no bloody sense.
If you're going on a search.. bring Ziploc bags.. and gloves. And bring the bottle in for fingerprints.
That pissed me off. The whole point of doing the search is to collect ANY evidence you can find.
I don't know what to make of this guy, and his time with Fred
May I also add, he is saying the exact same copy cat lines of what Fred is saying. ....
"It doesn't matter what she was doing beforehand etc etc etc"
That was Fred's constant tag line.
Fred has trained this guy well.
I think she took a ride from a young couple and got taken
"Trespassers Will Be Shot" "If my uncle was here, he'd shoot you"
Nice! That's some real Northern hospitality for you. /s
I understand that a landowner might get away with that in Texas, but I wonder if that would fly in New Hampshire.
NH’s motto is live free or die and it attracts and breeds a lot of militia types. People up there are obsessed with property rights. You set one toe on their property and the owner is threatening you. I spent a lot of time up there as a kid. There are some odd characters.
So many unanswerable questions in this case. So much can be speculated.
Any one would be frustrated if u had 2 car accidents in 3 days wouldnt that send u to a dark place. She didnt go up there and drink herself to death. She hadnt planned to crash it happened. How discouraged would one be i hope yall upgraded the phone towers dayum
17 years later, still no cell service.
Cop abduction
I can only take about 3 minutes of the non stop stammering. You guys should have done some heavy editing on this. this could have been a 15 min episode. Horrible interview.
In reference to her email, something I've never heard suggested.... When she said there was a death in her family... Maybe she was speaking of herself? If you believe she was enroute to commit suicide..(whether she made it there or not). It doesn't change anything but it makes me wonder.
Or her baby.
+Pasic TP of course we don't. But, we don't know that she was going to commit suicide either. We're just speculating.
+Pasic TP I think you mean would have, she could have gone to New Hampshire to commit suicide, I think it would be silly to argue that. However, I don't personally think she would have or did for that matter. Its just another one of those rabit holes that has just enough evidence that throws the possibly out there, but not enough to prove it.
+Ts0usermax so you must be the newest troll on the scene. Nice to meet you, I'm honored that you took time out of your day to make an unjustified and false accusation against me. I only comment under this name so maybe it would be more beneficial to direct your attention elsewhere in this case.
+Pasic TP Yea I got that vibe from him, some people just have nothing better to do.
If Maura was headed for the UMass cabin, why was she searching online for accomodation??
She may not have been headed to the cabin. But, it could be that she was searching for a place and she just hadn't thought about that place until after she had already called searching.
I think she realized she couldn't afford those places with the cash she had, so she headed for the cabin instead, but drunkenly didn't make it and froze to death on her way there. If she was walking, she could have taken a short cut through the woods since she had experience as a hiker.
+Brittany Stansel I agree partiality, I don't have a theory that I'm willing to commit to. I think the cabin was her last option. I don't think she went into the woods and froze, she could have, I just don't personally think she did. I've always wondered if she wasn't meeting someone.
The cabin was about 30 minutes by car away.. Maybe 29 miles away. .there's a video of MAURA 'S accident seen and the trip to the cabin...no way could she have walked it
Im sorry but this guy Graves didn't seem to have his act together. He sounded half intoxicated and a lot of maybes , cant remember and not sure comments. I also have to wonder at the common sense and competence of him and the others searching for Maura back then. They find a empty vodka bottle that looks freshly tossed or dropped and no one thought to bag and tag it for the police, just left it there. Yet he say's later they were looking for anything including "alcohol bottles". Talk about a epic fail and it's sad because that could have been such a important clue/lead.
I am also baffled and amazed that with all the people over the years including police, private investigators, friends and family searching and investigating that no one every found out about this cabin. Just seems surreal. Another important clue missed. God knows what other mistakes were made like these.
+QuickSmurf I don't have to give the guy anything. If you don't like it, move along.
+Jason Whitehouse you don't have to give him anything, but it's very unreasonable and is the kind of mindset that will never solve this case.
+The Chercheur Lol, yeah you're right. It's my opinion and mindset that keeps this case from being solved. If you read your reply out loud, you probably will realize how moronic and ridiculous it sounds. If you don't like a opinion, just keep moving along.
+Jason Whitehouse I don't know if you realize this or not, but you don't have the authority to tell people to move on if they don't like your opinion and I don't think I will. I never said your opinion specifically is what is keeping this case from being solved, I don't think your that important to the case. I do think that the closed mindset that people like you seem to adopt, could be very damaging to this case. You refusing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt over something that happened that long ago, shows your ignorance and immaturity, if you were really investigating this case, a closed mind would be something you would want to avoid.
He sounds like an older gentleman,with neurological problems maybe,and he knows more than you do.
Had someone been trailing her the bus driver wouldnt of had to stop he seen one car
Great point 👈 Deborah. If you're in tandem you're noticeable.
NO MATTER what anyone's theory's are about this it's really refreshing to listen and see all this time that's gone bye people are still working VERY hard to keep this investigation strong! This is where I think people need to LOOK and not take there opinion to far and for granted!
Also now hearing about a new friend or whatever possibly having a cabin up there.... this was the week before valentine's day and ive always wondered if she went up there for an encounter or whatever and then met with foul play.
Have thought that for years actually.
great episode
Yeah know...
Thank you Mr Graves.
Great podcast. When exactly did you guys do this interview with Rick Graves? Just curious. He is a real fountain of information and good for him to to and help Fred look for Maura.
Has anyone ever suspected this guy he seems obsessed with this case, sometimes the killer will inject himself into the case . I would also suspect the guy who saw her that night the bus driver.
What a sweet, helpful, kind & caring man. 💜
Yes
what's the name of the piano music?
I don't think maura is out there. And given who's involved, her remains will likely never be found.
What do you mean by that? “Given who’s involved” … who do you think killed her???
Very interesting. Especially that cabin....
Ok but seriously am I the only person wanting to give this amazing man a hug. He threw himself in to help how he could for someone he doesn't even know, and having such little information about it because it was so new and had happened really right before the social media explosion and the internet. Realistically we are very spoiled at this point with how easy it is to get information we want pretty much immediately.
Idk. I just think this man who walked beside the father if this missing girl searching for her and he gave up weekends to help with this and would go even if Fred couldn't make it. That is an amazingly selfless thing to do and I can only imagine the feeling after extensive searching on to find nothing. But still continuing to come and help search anyway.
I wouldn't have taken the notte either but taken note of it to tell law enforcement etc because you don't know if its evidence or not. So it would be smarter to not just move possible evidence. Bag or not. Law enforcement should see where that bottle is and how it was laying there etc possible fingerprints. So just asking some of the commenters with less than nice comments... pls put yourself in his shoes in that situation. Asking nicely, don't come for me please.
Not only is it amazing he came to help repeatedly, just imagine hw taxing on everyone's lives and at the end of each day having found nothing really and the impact that would have on everyone involved.
Also...come on guys...its been years since these searches and his very close involvement. Seriously.... and it was said and also he CLEARY needed to distance himself from this case. As we all know it can kind of take over because of the mystery and questions...imagine having been there and obviously as the days go by it is common sense to look for signs of her and common sense as you keep searching and find nothing...ever...eventually your mind is going to start to lose a little hope.
And they arent wrong. Now there is speculation on why she went up there its a twisted enigma. At that time....she is missing....thats what matters at first.
That little comment about the party cabin followed by the "Ya, because Umass doesn't have enough places to party" was pretty funny. For anyone who has never been there, the Umass campus is overwhelming in size. It is essentially a it's own little city. I went there for a recruiting visit for football and I was immediately shocked just how large the actual campus was.
Anyway, as far the Forcier statement, I think it is worth keeping in mind that when police come around to question people, they are not exactly forth-coming. Even if the cops are 100% sure that you are not a suspect, they tend to be very vague. They may approach someone like him and basically say that there was a traffic incident and that they are just following up with people who live in the vicinity and ask what they saw. I understand why the cops are with-holding with the people they question but I think it can result in information being glossed over.
I wasn't there but my guess is, the cops didn't go around and say "Hey, there was an abandoned car that crashed on the side of the road last night and the girl disappeared from the scene and is now missing. Is there anything you can tell us?" I would assume that they told Forcier as little as possible and just asked if he saw the accident or if he saw the driver of the car or if he noticed anything odd. I'm not defending the guy but it can be easy to dismiss the fact that you think you saw someone walking along the side of the road if you had no reason to pay attention to that person at the time.
As far as I can tell, it wasn't unusual for residents in that area to be out and about and walking down that street. So I can kinda see why Forcier might not have mentioned that detail at the time but then it occurred to him afterwards when he was talking to the neighbor and found out that there was a missing girl who may have been trying to avoid a DUI. Just a thought tho. I try really hard not to assume guilt when these little anomalies pop up. It can be easy to view something as being incredibly suspicious after you know all the information but I don't think it is all that unusual for potential witnesses to think of something relevant later on.
The poor guy....Fred put him in charge of the psychic reports...!!!!
Too bad he didn't know about Psychic Reverend Donna Seraphina. She is for real. Extremely able to garner the truth from the Otherside.
🤣
so, this guy finds a vodka bottle and didn't think it was relevant? He should have stuck to planes. So freaking sad at the incompetence of so many! I'm sure this guy means well so not trying to sound mean but dang!
The theory of her following someone could be a possibility. I've followed people to a destination rather than ride with them. She bought lots of alcohol, enough for several people. Kate was missing correct? Maybe she was already at the cabin, met up with Maura so Maura could follow her to the cabin. If her dad is correct and she wasn't familiar with this particular area, this could be a theory to consider.
I think a lot of Mr. Graves after listening to him here, but when he points out that he had seen no pictures of Maura with her hair down, there are actually quite a few of her with her hair down so, although at the time of her disappearance she almost always wore it up, it is by no means unheard of for her to have worn it down.
This guy makes the searches seem a lot less intense than the Oxygen show did...
Sarah L. Clark , o_O miss this Guys searches were Alot More intense than the stupid tv program.. They just did that show for $ and to make for hot television, trying to convince people the local police had nothing to do with it when thats exactly what could Have happened.
This is SO painful and useless to listen to.
Ok so if it was someone else in the car, where is Maura? I know you've dismissed this theory more or less, but to entertain it at all is crazy.
They didn't know the difference between human hair and deer hair?
It was like a dickovery channel about Bigfoot kkkkkkkk
Boring...
lynne thomas , F*** off
Lore Muhler Lol ok hillbilly...