I don't mind you guys looking at this case in all perspectives. That's what got me hooked to this show. What I do mind is when the perspective can veer into character assassination territory. That's my biggest issue with James Renner. He doesn't handle this case delicately by implicating almost all of Maura's friends and family as suspects just because they don't want to speak to him - with good reason - and he muddies up the waters as if his theories are facts and mere coincidences show a deep connection. If he had been objective in regards to this, I would take him seriously. As of now, I can't because he wasn't objective from the start. He seems to have a personal hatred for Fred Murray, and I find that off-putting.
i hate the thought of losing someone i love and never knowing what happened. i would die of heartache. God Bless the family and loved ones....and Maura i hope you are at peace.
Would love to see John Smith's notes on this case, just because he seems to have the most complete knowledge about witnesses/evidence about the crash over the last 11 years
This was truly an informative episode! John brought a lot of information that was unknown to me that made me look at this case in a different way...again! Thank you so much for coming forward and getting your story out there John! Im wondering after the "first" accident did Maura try to continue her journey and eventually broke down at the "crash scene"...since the car was already in bad condition..could she have put the rag in the tailpipe because of advice from Fred earlier?
Ps..I would love to contribute in any way I can to this case. I am very computer savvy and can do any research that may be needed. This case has boggled my mind for years..when I heard the story I was in nursing school as well at the same time and really identified with a lot Maura was going through....please let me know if I can assist in any way.
+Truth Seeker As I was relistening to the podcast in my way to work this morning, when you were talking about how cars look when they hit trees vs. how Mauras car looked it got me thinking about a time when I crashed my toyota corolla which looked similar to the saturn of that time. My corolla had the same type of damage to the one side and I hit a guardrail...my brother also had an accident and hit a tree and u are right it made the whole hood spring up.
+Truth Seeker Agree with your assessment on the accident. The damage was there from a previous accident either that night or in the past. Also in regards to the starring on the windshield to me that was mostly likely done by whoever was in the drivers seat hitting their head on the windshield and not the airbag. As it has been my experience as an EMT that starring from an airbag tends to be lower on the windshield.
One thing really bothers me about this case: We don't know many of the basic facts, and it causes us to have to speculate more than you would on normal cases where you know some things. For example, ask 6 different people and you get 6 different responses as to whether Fred Murray told Maura to put the rag there. If he didn't, that's the single biggest piece of evidence in the case!! How can we not know that? Now, I hear about this other accident at 7:05 (Sweetwater rd or something?) HOW could someone who's looked into this case a lot only just now find that out?? (referring to myself) Things are so much more difficult than they need to be in this case!
I just found out about the first accident myself. It changes my mind about what Maura was going through. It makes it much more likely that she found a way to make her body disappear. I think she would've been so upset if she hit someone. Much more likely to become reckless with her safety.
You think it's strange that they didn't keep her on 911 and strange that the bus driver didn't keep looking down the road as he was walking to the bus and working on paperwork. But you are using hindsight, knowing that a woman went disappearing for 15 years. At the time it was just a minor fender bender, not really that interesting, not interesting enough to keep looking down there or to look up from your paperwork. Just a minor fender bender. In my small town, no way 911 would have stayed on the phone. They'd say " thanks we'll send someone out". Same way with why no photos, why no ambulance stayed etc. At the time it was just some drunk kid who wrecked her car and ran off. Just spitballing some thoughts on why it wasn't treated like a major crime at the time.
Up until this point I thought John Smith was an internet troll, but after this episode I realize that he genuinely cares and has investigated this case to the best of his ability. Interested in the next part of his interview
Stephanie Wilson stephanie I think she ran, perhaps from the police knowing she was facing a DUI. She was probably under the inflence of ephedrine and Alcohol. My other guess was someone picked her up hence the dogs losing her scent and the scarf in the tailpipe. Whatever, the police know something which is evident by the refusal to release informatiin. This family needs resolutiin.
@@amanirose2958 I know what it is. Was there ephedrine found in the car? If so, I haven't heard of that. Is this pure speculation on your part or is there evidence she used it?
The thing about the police handling of the case is that, on-average, people are stupid. This also applies to cops. And even that by not be a fair way to look at this. Cops often deal with very uninteresting traffic accidents and situations and after a while, I think it can become easy for them to assess a situation like Maura's, see the alcohol and decide that a drunk driver ditched the car to avoid getting arrested. This sorta thing happens more often than people may realize. It's easy to criticize the handling of this situation in hindsight but if it's 730 on a weekend and you come across an abandoned car with no signs of foul play or serious injury, it's not hard to imagine that a cop would quickly decide to just tow the car and move on with their night. The edited police reports and ensuing investigation certainly deserve scrutiny but I think many of us are quickly learning how unreliable eye-witness reports can be and how inconsistent the stories are from person to person. This case is so bizarre and it is so hard to believe that Maura could manage to slip away from the scene unnoticed in such a short window of time and then also not be seen by any of the first responders or leave any trace as to where she got off to.
The guy did it and according to the board walk lady his wife helped. Which she sure was defensive in her interview. How people miss this guy I’ll never know and he failed the polygraph. Due to health issues. Yet he is out all night after this helping search for a stranger who refused helped. A simple dui walk away which turned into something else be sure of him and shit detectives. It’s right in front of them.
I will always believe she hit him and that’s why she was trying to get out of town and he was the death in the family she spoke of, because she thought she killed him.
Maura Murray got in like 5 accident possibly in 1 week. She wasn't a very good driver. That's of course if she hit the Vasi kid. That's 4 accidents in 1 week.
I believe the police officer is involved/responsible for her complete disappearance. There obviously was alot going on with Maura prior to the day she disappeared but something is really off with time details, the police & reports.
The cop in the SUV WHICH WAS THERE IMMEDIATELY IS THE ONE WHO PULLED HER OVER OFFERED HER A WAY OUT OF DUI FOR SEXUAL FAVOR, SHE REFUSED, HE RAPED HER THEN PANICKED ANOUT GETYING CAUGHT AND MURDERED HER AND DISPOSED OF BODY! THIS IS THE REASON THEY TRIED TO SAY THAT SUV COP CAR WAS NOT IN SERVICE AND COULDNT HAVE BEEN THERE!
If you're actually serious you're completely delusional. Your theory is wholly uninformed. There was not enough time for that to be the case nor is there ANY EVIDENCE to suggest what you're saying is true. It's looney conspiracy minded nonsense/madness. @@nathanielorion5703
Very interesting episode. I was so disappointed when the episode didn't show up in the usual time-frame, but it was worth waiting for! I like hearing the viewpoints of the different people that have interviewed folks and looked at different reports over the years. Question for TruthSeeker: I always feel that the damage to the car is on the wrong side (drivers). If she veered off the right side of the road and then somehow didn't stop, but flipped around so that she was facing 180 degrees the other way, how could the damage be on the drivers side in the front? I always thought that this was more evidence pointing to the possibility that she WAS involved in the Petrit Vasey accident. I'm guessing that you've seen the accident reconstruction that was done and could possibly tell us why the damage is on the driver's side. I'm amazed that John brings up several things that we've never heard of before. #1 the 7:05 call on the scanner #2 the redacted county sheriff report #3 The fact that the bus driver went back out into the bus to write his reports #4. the fact that the EMT's were told to leave after 6 minutes! How was the information about the 7:05 call uncovered if it was redacted in the report? Thanks so much for your time and a Very interesting interview!
+Paula Narva The EMT's being told to leave after 6 minutes isn't all that strange to be honest. Speaking as an EMT albeit in a different state than where the accident happened. If there is no known patient, no patient contact or the patient just flat out refuses assistance 6 minutes scene time isn't out of the realm of possibilities.
Truth Seeker I honestly don't know the answers to that as in my area when I was on a municipal fire department the PD always "chased" us. With the expanded information you have just given it is very strange then that EMS and the FD would be cleared and sent back after 6 minutes. Although I have personally been in a few accidents in which just the PD shows initially and unless someone is claiming injury the FD doesn't show. That is just one of the many puzzling things about this case.
Truth Seeker That I cannot answer. To me it would make more sense for both police and fire to respond with the first call stating two possible people in the car. Even if dispatcher asked if there were any PIs to the occupants of the car it's safe to assume the caller would say I don't know and rescue if they are separated from fire would be dispatched at the very least.
Great work Lance Tim whatta job you good folks do for the N..H. and VT. missing teens. Yes we want answers I been on the crawlspace and M.M.M. chnl. for 3yrs. keep it going dudes. Peace from ZUMA bch. CA.
It sounds like something mysterious (what James was alluding to perhaps) led her to the vicinity and en route she was the victim of some shady cop business. But even then, the large amount of mystery surrounding everything is odd. The reason people aren't talking is not to protect reputations. He closest friends likely have no idea what ensued the night she vanished. They may (probably) know the events leading up to the disappearance, but the longterm mystery leads me to think no ones knows where she is. Have we considered sex trafficking? That's actually the first thing that popped into my mind.
With all due respect you guys talk about everything like you're experts. Like saying she didn't hit her head because that happened to you once and you bled... that's only one example
This has been a thought of mine for a long time, someone forcing her out. A lot of people are quick to immediately dismiss the idea of a opportunistic killer because of the tight window from the time Butch spoke to her and the time the first officer responded but it is still POSSIBLE.
eurozz99 - THE OPPORTUNIST WAS THE COP IN THE SUV WHO WAS ON SCENE WITHIN A MINUTE AND WHO THE POLICE ATTEMPTED TO SAY WASNT THERE! HE RAPED HER, MURDER HER AND THEN DISPOSE THE BODY. The COP WHO COMMITTED SUICIDE ON 2-20-19 WAS EITHER OF GUILT OR HE THREATEN TO TELL THE TRUTH AND THE POLICE HAD TO KILL HIM TO SILENT HIM. FACTS!
I am half way through Episode 9. And not sure if I can make it to the end. Stop with the navel gazing and nit picking with other half assed "investigators." It has been episodes since any facts or clues have been discussed. all that you are talking about is pretend psychoanalysis of people not even connected to the Maura Murray case. Renner has just gone on and one describing his fights with internet creeps and trolls. Who cares? this does nothing for solving the case? the previous episode would have been funny if it wasn't so pathetic. Fred Murray is obviously angry and distraught. It was clear that neither of you have kids. The guy was lashing out in those letters. I don't think analyzing them word for word is worthwhile--or commenting that he seems angry. I bet he is angry, angry at the world and lashing out at anyone and anything. Just becuase a bunch of wackos on the internet are talking about his missing daughter that does not mean that he should join them. There is not a connection between you and them. You are not investigators, you are a bunch of people on the internet who are interested in the case of Maura Murray. The more I listen to the podcast, the more I wonder about what the documentary is going to be. Initially, I assumed that it would be about the case. Now I fear that it will be about the navel gazing in the podcast.
I've longed believed "the documentary " will never happen......eight years after your comment and where's "the documentary"..... all bunk spouted by beginners.....
Yes John set things straight. It's nice to hear you guys pretty much agree that your first episodes were rash. I could do without Episodes 3-9. Let's hope we have turned a corner now and focus on the facts and not dirt throwing.
Just a theory I thought of while listening to this episode: What if somehow it was the box of wine that flew forward and hit the windshield? That explains how the windshield was cracked from the inside but was inconsistent with a person hitting it (i.e. no blood, hair, or skin) and also why the wine was spilled all over the car. Though they must have been going very fast to physically launch the box of wine. Perhaps someone in the front was holding it or was bringing it forward and then it got knocked out of their hands and sent forward and upwards into the windshield when they had the accident? I don't know what sort of cracks that impact would cause though... Again, just a theory.
I think it was a bottle of wine that flew forward from the back seat. Kind of hard to see it flying from the front seat. It would have had to be in Maura's hand.
1. Is John the Truth Seeker also The Wolfman? 2. I would like to know his email address if you would forward it please. I have been looking but can not find it. Thanks in advance. 3. Questions I have. A. What king of vehicle was the Wolfman driving the evening Maura crashed? B. Where was he on the night of the crash. C. Has he been questioned by police? D. Do you believe he is hiding in "Plain Sight". E. The podcast Armchair Detective sent you a challenge. If you have not responding with the documents requested, WHY NOT? F. From these podcasts it leads to Wolfman is involved. Your opinion please. Maybe this is why the NHSP are having difficulty bringing charges. Thanks, Lou
This is a stretch....so please bear with me...I know due to HIPAA laws etc this may not be known or if it is known may not be allowed to be public information, but do we know if Maura was on any kinds of medications? I know in 2004 that doctors were much more inclined to give out things like ambien because they hadn't really seen the effects it could have yet (hallucinating, amnesia like symptoms, sleep walking, etc) I know at my previous university one of our doctors was prescribing it like candy. Maura was a fairly small young lady. If she was mixing a drug like a benzo or something like ambien that could explain some of the erratic nature to her recent behavior. Some people want to say "she was a really bad driver to get in that many wrecks" well, she may have been under the influence of a very serious medication and that added to alcohol could be lethal. There have been several reports of women consuming drugs like ambien and being "conscious" but having NO recollection of sexual intercourse, of driving to certain locations or how they got there, of driving and wrecking their cars and not even being aware they were driving etc. like I said, it's a stretch but maybe it wasn't just Tylenol PM and wine. Also I am not saying that Maura had no idea she was driving to whatever her destination was. There is plenty of evidence to show that was planned or at least thought out. But the night she wrecked her dads car, or the night Petrit was hit, maybe she wasn't as intoxicated as people are assuming but medicated. Which is maybe why she didn't appear to be drunk to the officer the night of the corolla crash. Idk. Just thinking out loud.
If Maura's car crashed before the weathered barn, is it possible that it was being towed? We talk about tandem drivers - what if her car was literally on the back of another vehicle? Not sure how this fits with what Butch reported seeing (unless we are talking about a staged event) but....could the rag in the tailpipe have been a sort of makeshift flag? Like you would hang out the back of a vehicle for an oversized load? If the airbags deployed in an earlier crash, then perhaps the car wasn't operable even before it got to the curve. It got carried there? Is this where John is going? This is the first time I think I have ever been able to explain the rag t myself...as improbable as it might be.
Love the title! So who is the truth seeker? I hate having to re-dissect every little piece of information when presented in such a divergent manner all the time.
Sounds like there is somebody hiding something. Anybody see the story or episode in Florida I'll go back to research, but that cop took at two separate times took into custody two different times and that was the last time those men we're ever seen.
Stephanie Wilson - Yes n disappeared series! That POS cop for 17 years definitely killed those two people he arrested and many more that are unknown too. He was fired only and never faced any charges
Could the crack on the windshield have been made from the box of wine Maura had in the car? Could that be why there was also wine on the inside roof of the car? I also personally know of two instances where one's head hit the inside windshield and caused a huge spider crack with no injuries or bleeding. That is possible. Could the crack in the windshield have been made from the airbag itself?
I highly doubt a cardboard box of wine would cause that kind of damage to thick windshield glass. I think a better theory would be that one of the other bottles of alcohol might have flown forward from the backseat and hit the windshield.
PacIsle - shut the fuck up bitch! Fact finding research is just that, finding facts and researching them! You are just a little coward bitch boy who needs to fuck off
so just to keep this straight, TruthSeeker is saying that Maura had an accident BEFORE her car gave out near Butch Atwood's residence? that's an interesting theory because that may be when SHE stuffed the rag in the tailpipe. If I'm not mistaken, her father told her to place the rag in the tailpipe to keep it from smoking, or something like that. Ironically, that could also be the reason the car eventually stalled out near BA's residence and fate came calling, whatever that may be? Stuffing the rag in the tailpipe, in my opinion, is THE event that set her disappearance in motion....
TruthSeeker's theory makes no sense and is based on zero evidence. TruthSeeker has gone to the Donald Trump school of making a case which means that you just throw stuff out there and hope that enough gullible people buy it. His theory here is based on some "friend" of his with a police scanner who supposedly heard of some other accident that occurred at 7:05 pm and, of course, John Smith wildly speculates that this other accident may have involved Maura. The most ridiculous part of this theory is that Maura's airbags deployed but she still managed to drive for another 20 minutes somehow with an airbag in her face. This is when her car spun out or whatever at the accident scene that we all know. If you believe this theory, I have some swampland that you might be interested in in Florida.
He knows the facts and common sense which so many lack. Connecting dots based on facts is simple however people don't like the truth, which is the cops murdered her!
He's a detective,the point he is trying to make I believe if you're following all these podcasts is that the damage was not done due to hitting a tree, she probably hit that kid Petrit Vasi and that's how the damage was done to the car, that theory is that she walked into the mountains and committed suicide because it was too much for her to bear,will have to put all the podcast together and be a podcast fan on the Maura Murray case to follow all the little tracks or else none of it will make sense
Maura Murray never existed. This whole story was a cautionary tale for UMass students. In 2004 there was a guy going around knocking women over at night and groping them...they came up with Maura to warn those girls not to do things alone and to go with buddies. How this has ballooned up into as much as it has...I'm not sure.
I don't mind you guys looking at this case in all perspectives. That's what got me hooked to this show. What I do mind is when the perspective can veer into character assassination territory. That's my biggest issue with James Renner. He doesn't handle this case delicately by implicating almost all of Maura's friends and family as suspects just because they don't want to speak to him - with good reason - and he muddies up the waters as if his theories are facts and mere coincidences show a deep connection. If he had been objective in regards to this, I would take him seriously. As of now, I can't because he wasn't objective from the start. He seems to have a personal hatred for Fred Murray, and I find that off-putting.
Droopy Dawg Well said..
There is no such thing as objectivity. We all think that we are objective and everyone else is subjective. We can never see through our own biases.
@@virtue_signal_ Spoken like a biased person.
@@SuperTonyony exactly!
I totally agree with you! I'm a bit late on this case but.. ❤
i hate the thought of losing someone i love and never knowing what happened. i would die of heartache. God Bless the family and loved ones....and Maura i hope you are at peace.
Susan Ann amen
Would love to see John Smith's notes on this case, just because he seems to have the most complete knowledge about witnesses/evidence about the crash over the last 11 years
lirissa rangel - Facts
Thanks for all that you've done guys and Truth Seeker.
This was truly an informative episode! John brought a lot of information that was unknown to me that made me look at this case in a different way...again! Thank you so much for coming forward and getting your story out there John! Im wondering after the "first" accident did Maura try to continue her journey and eventually broke down at the "crash scene"...since the car was already in bad condition..could she have put the rag in the tailpipe because of advice from Fred earlier?
Truth Seeker Im sure they did...but were neighbors at the scene of the "first " accident interviewed?
Ps..I would love to contribute in any way I can to this case. I am very computer savvy and can do any research that may be needed. This case has boggled my mind for years..when I heard the story I was in nursing school as well at the same time and really identified with a lot Maura was going through....please let me know if I can assist in any way.
+Truth Seeker As I was relistening to the podcast in my way to work this morning, when you were talking about how cars look when they hit trees vs. how Mauras car looked it got me thinking about a time when I crashed my toyota corolla which looked similar to the saturn of that time. My corolla had the same type of damage to the one side and I hit a guardrail...my brother also had an accident and hit a tree and u are right it made the whole hood spring up.
+Truth Seeker Agree with your assessment on the accident. The damage was there from a previous accident either that night or in the past. Also in regards to the starring on the windshield to me that was mostly likely done by whoever was in the drivers seat hitting their head on the windshield and not the airbag. As it has been my experience as an EMT that starring from an airbag tends to be lower on the windshield.
+Truth Seeker What do u thin about one of the liquor bottles flying forward and hitting the windshield?
Loving the podcast so far, great job John Smith. :) listening to the second part now of his interview.
One thing really bothers me about this case: We don't know many of the basic facts, and it causes us to have to speculate more than you would on normal cases where you know some things. For example, ask 6 different people and you get 6 different responses as to whether Fred Murray told Maura to put the rag there. If he didn't, that's the single biggest piece of evidence in the case!! How can we not know that? Now, I hear about this other accident at 7:05 (Sweetwater rd or something?) HOW could someone who's looked into this case a lot only just now find that out?? (referring to myself) Things are so much more difficult than they need to be in this case!
I just found out about the first accident myself. It changes my mind about what Maura was going through. It makes it much more likely that she found a way to make her body disappear. I think she would've been so upset if she hit someone. Much more likely to become reckless with her safety.
You think it's strange that they didn't keep her on 911 and strange that the bus driver didn't keep looking down the road as he was walking to the bus and working on paperwork. But you are using hindsight, knowing that a woman went disappearing for 15 years. At the time it was just a minor fender bender, not really that interesting, not interesting enough to keep looking down there or to look up from your paperwork. Just a minor fender bender. In my small town, no way 911 would have stayed on the phone. They'd say " thanks we'll send someone out". Same way with why no photos, why no ambulance stayed etc. At the time it was just some drunk kid who wrecked her car and ran off. Just spitballing some thoughts on why it wasn't treated like a major crime at the time.
Was his bus searched immediately?
Up until this point I thought John Smith was an internet troll, but after this episode I realize that he genuinely cares and has investigated this case to the best of his ability. Interested in the next part of his interview
hes pos
Somebody took advantage of a situation of a pretty girl alone not knowing her way around. I think people know who did this to Maura.
Stephanie Wilson stephanie I think she ran, perhaps from the police knowing she was facing a DUI. She was probably under the inflence of ephedrine and Alcohol. My other guess was someone picked her up hence the dogs losing her scent and the scarf in the tailpipe. Whatever, the police know something which is evident by the refusal to release informatiin. This family needs resolutiin.
@@amanirose2958 Why ephedrine?
J L P L People use it to keep awake it is a stimulant. Students use it to stay awake for burning both ends of the candle.
@@amanirose2958 I know what it is. Was there ephedrine found in the car? If so, I haven't heard of that. Is this pure speculation on your part or is there evidence she used it?
I am just speculating. I know it is commonly used, mixed with drinking can cause psychosis.
The thing about the police handling of the case is that, on-average, people are stupid. This also applies to cops. And even that by not be a fair way to look at this. Cops often deal with very uninteresting traffic accidents and situations and after a while, I think it can become easy for them to assess a situation like Maura's, see the alcohol and decide that a drunk driver ditched the car to avoid getting arrested. This sorta thing happens more often than people may realize.
It's easy to criticize the handling of this situation in hindsight but if it's 730 on a weekend and you come across an abandoned car with no signs of foul play or serious injury, it's not hard to imagine that a cop would quickly decide to just tow the car and move on with their night.
The edited police reports and ensuing investigation certainly deserve scrutiny but I think many of us are quickly learning how unreliable eye-witness reports can be and how inconsistent the stories are from person to person. This case is so bizarre and it is so hard to believe that Maura could manage to slip away from the scene unnoticed in such a short window of time and then also not be seen by any of the first responders or leave any trace as to where she got off to.
The guy did it and according to the board walk lady his wife helped. Which she sure was defensive in her interview. How people miss this guy I’ll never know and he failed the polygraph. Due to health issues. Yet he is out all night after this helping search for a stranger who refused helped. A simple dui walk away which turned into something else be sure of him and shit detectives. It’s right in front of them.
She may have hit Petrit Vasi and tried to kill herself from the guilt
Especially if she was studying to be a Nurse.
I will always believe she hit him and that’s why she was trying to get out of town and he was the death in the family she spoke of, because she thought she killed him.
did they ever Dust the car for fingerprints???????????????
They never dusted the car or items within the car for finger prints or DNA MATERIAL. FURTHER PROOF OF THE POLICE DIRECT INVOLVEMENT IN HER MURDER!
Maura Murray got in like 5 accident possibly in 1 week. She wasn't a very good driver. That's of course if she hit the Vasi kid. That's 4 accidents in 1 week.
I believe the police officer is involved/responsible for her complete disappearance. There obviously was alot going on with Maura prior to the day she disappeared but something is really off with time details, the police & reports.
And/or butch atwood....it sounds like truth seeker might have wondered that as well
The cop in the SUV WHICH WAS THERE IMMEDIATELY IS THE ONE WHO PULLED HER OVER OFFERED HER A WAY OUT OF DUI FOR SEXUAL FAVOR, SHE REFUSED, HE RAPED HER THEN PANICKED ANOUT GETYING CAUGHT AND MURDERED HER AND DISPOSED OF BODY! THIS IS THE REASON THEY TRIED TO SAY THAT SUV COP CAR WAS NOT IN SERVICE AND COULDNT HAVE BEEN THERE!
If you're actually serious you're completely delusional. Your theory is wholly uninformed. There was not enough time for that to be the case nor is there ANY EVIDENCE to suggest what you're saying is true. It's looney conspiracy minded nonsense/madness. @@nathanielorion5703
Very interesting episode. I was so disappointed when the episode didn't show up in the usual time-frame, but it was worth waiting for! I like hearing the viewpoints of the different people that have interviewed folks and looked at different reports over the years. Question for TruthSeeker: I always feel that the damage to the car is on the wrong side (drivers). If she veered off the right side of the road and then somehow didn't stop, but flipped around so that she was facing 180 degrees the other way, how could the damage be on the drivers side in the front? I always thought that this was more evidence pointing to the possibility that she WAS involved in the Petrit Vasey accident. I'm guessing that you've seen the accident reconstruction that was done and could possibly tell us why the damage is on the driver's side.
I'm amazed that John brings up several things that we've never heard of before. #1 the 7:05 call on the scanner #2 the redacted county sheriff report #3 The fact that the bus driver went back out into the bus to write his reports #4. the fact that the EMT's were told to leave after 6 minutes!
How was the information about the 7:05 call uncovered if it was redacted in the report? Thanks so much for your time and a Very interesting interview!
+Paula Narva The EMT's being told to leave after 6 minutes isn't all that strange to be honest. Speaking as an EMT albeit in a different state than where the accident happened. If there is no known patient, no patient contact or the patient just flat out refuses assistance 6 minutes scene time isn't out of the realm of possibilities.
Truth Seeker I honestly don't know the answers to that as in my area when I was on a municipal fire department the PD always "chased" us. With the expanded information you have just given it is very strange then that EMS and the FD would be cleared and sent back after 6 minutes.
Although I have personally been in a few accidents in which just the PD shows initially and unless someone is claiming injury the FD doesn't show. That is just one of the many puzzling things about this case.
Truth Seeker That I cannot answer. To me it would make more sense for both police and fire to respond with the first call stating two possible people in the car. Even if dispatcher asked if there were any PIs to the occupants of the car it's safe to assume the caller would say I don't know and rescue if they are separated from fire would be dispatched at the very least.
Great work Lance Tim whatta job you good folks do for the N..H. and VT. missing teens. Yes we want answers I been on the crawlspace and M.M.M. chnl. for 3yrs. keep it going dudes. Peace from ZUMA bch. CA.
i agree. Renner runs down everyone involved in the case.
It sounds like something mysterious (what James was alluding to perhaps) led her to the vicinity and en route she was the victim of some shady cop business. But even then, the large amount of mystery surrounding everything is odd. The reason people aren't talking is not to protect reputations. He closest friends likely have no idea what ensued the night she vanished. They may (probably) know the events leading up to the disappearance, but the longterm mystery leads me to think no ones knows where she is.
Have we considered sex trafficking? That's actually the first thing that popped into my mind.
+Ts0usermax the fact that he can even say that he is sure they didn't do anything shows his lack of objective insight into this investigation
With all due respect you guys talk about everything like you're experts. Like saying she didn't hit her head because that happened to you once and you bled... that's only one example
This is the main reason I had.to stop listening to them
lol......all the Maura Murray "experts" are annoying.....Renner, these two ......the list is endless.....
After looking at the glass in Maura's Saturn I wonder if it could have been broken during an argument or fit of rage by someone from the out side
This has been a thought of mine for a long time, someone forcing her out. A lot of people are quick to immediately dismiss the idea of a opportunistic killer because of the tight window from the time Butch spoke to her and the time the first officer responded but it is still POSSIBLE.
eurozz99 - THE OPPORTUNIST WAS THE COP IN THE SUV WHO WAS ON SCENE WITHIN A MINUTE AND WHO THE POLICE ATTEMPTED TO SAY WASNT THERE! HE RAPED HER, MURDER HER AND THEN DISPOSE THE BODY. The COP WHO COMMITTED SUICIDE ON 2-20-19 WAS EITHER OF GUILT OR HE THREATEN TO TELL THE TRUTH AND THE POLICE HAD TO KILL HIM TO SILENT HIM. FACTS!
I am half way through Episode 9. And not sure if I can make it to the end. Stop with the navel gazing and nit picking with other half assed "investigators." It has been episodes since any facts or clues have been discussed. all that you are talking about is pretend psychoanalysis of people not even connected to the Maura Murray case. Renner has just gone on and one describing his fights with internet creeps and trolls. Who cares? this does nothing for solving the case?
the previous episode would have been funny if it wasn't so pathetic. Fred Murray is obviously angry and distraught. It was clear that neither of you have kids. The guy was lashing out in those letters. I don't think analyzing them word for word is worthwhile--or commenting that he seems angry. I bet he is angry, angry at the world and lashing out at anyone and anything.
Just becuase a bunch of wackos on the internet are talking about his missing daughter that does not mean that he should join them. There is not a connection between you and them. You are not investigators, you are a bunch of people on the internet who are interested in the case of Maura Murray.
The more I listen to the podcast, the more I wonder about what the documentary is going to be. Initially, I assumed that it would be about the case. Now I fear that it will be about the navel gazing in the podcast.
I've longed believed "the documentary " will never happen......eight years after your comment and where's "the documentary"..... all bunk spouted by beginners.....
Where was John Smith the night Maura Murray disappeared?
Where were you on the night she vanished??
Yes John set things straight. It's nice to hear you guys pretty much agree that your first episodes were rash. I could do without Episodes 3-9. Let's hope we have turned a corner now and focus on the facts and not dirt throwing.
Just a theory I thought of while listening to this episode: What if somehow it was the box of wine that flew forward and hit the windshield? That explains how the windshield was cracked from the inside but was inconsistent with a person hitting it (i.e. no blood, hair, or skin) and also why the wine was spilled all over the car. Though they must have been going very fast to physically launch the box of wine. Perhaps someone in the front was holding it or was bringing it forward and then it got knocked out of their hands and sent forward and upwards into the windshield when they had the accident? I don't know what sort of cracks that impact would cause though... Again, just a theory.
I think it was a bottle of wine that flew forward from the back seat. Kind of hard to see it flying from the front seat. It would have had to be in Maura's hand.
Is it noted anywhere that any officer just drove to the first accident enenthough the call was cancelled?
1. Is John the Truth Seeker also The Wolfman?
2.
I would like to know his email address if you would forward it please. I
have been looking but can not find it. Thanks in advance.
3. Questions I have.
A. What king of vehicle was the Wolfman driving the evening Maura crashed?
B. Where was he on the night of the crash.
C. Has he been questioned by police?
D. Do you believe he is hiding in "Plain Sight".
E. The podcast Armchair Detective sent you a challenge.
If you have not responding with the documents requested, WHY NOT?
F. From these podcasts it leads to Wolfman is involved. Your opinion please.
Maybe this is why the NHSP are having difficulty bringing charges.
Thanks,
Lou
This is what I’m saying. Here butch tells the truth that his wife called. You listen to art and Maggie butch called.
could the spider crack and the damage come from hitting a person at umass?
Crack came from inside the Saturn. Most likely from air bag or something projected inside the car during the crash.
This is a stretch....so please bear with me...I know due to HIPAA laws etc this may not be known or if it is known may not be allowed to be public information, but do we know if Maura was on any kinds of medications? I know in 2004 that doctors were much more inclined to give out things like ambien because they hadn't really seen the effects it could have yet (hallucinating, amnesia like symptoms, sleep walking, etc) I know at my previous university one of our doctors was prescribing it like candy. Maura was a fairly small young lady. If she was mixing a drug like a benzo or something like ambien that could explain some of the erratic nature to her recent behavior. Some people want to say "she was a really bad driver to get in that many wrecks" well, she may have been under the influence of a very serious medication and that added to alcohol could be lethal. There have been several reports of women consuming drugs like ambien and being "conscious" but having NO recollection of sexual intercourse, of driving to certain locations or how they got there, of driving and wrecking their cars and not even being aware they were driving etc. like I said, it's a stretch but maybe it wasn't just Tylenol PM and wine.
Also I am not saying that Maura had no idea she was driving to whatever her destination was. There is plenty of evidence to show that was planned or at least thought out. But the night she wrecked her dads car, or the night Petrit was hit, maybe she wasn't as intoxicated as people are assuming but medicated. Which is maybe why she didn't appear to be drunk to the officer the night of the corolla crash. Idk. Just thinking out loud.
If Maura's car crashed before the weathered barn, is it possible that it was being towed? We talk about tandem drivers - what if her car was literally on the back of another vehicle? Not sure how this fits with what Butch reported seeing (unless we are talking about a staged event) but....could the rag in the tailpipe have been a sort of makeshift flag? Like you would hang out the back of a vehicle for an oversized load? If the airbags deployed in an earlier crash, then perhaps the car wasn't operable even before it got to the curve. It got carried there? Is this where John is going? This is the first time I think I have ever been able to explain the rag t myself...as improbable as it might be.
Love the title! So who is the truth seeker? I hate having to re-dissect every little piece of information when presented in such a divergent manner all the time.
Sounds like there is somebody hiding something. Anybody see the story or episode in Florida I'll go back to research, but that cop took at two separate times took into custody two different times and that was the last time those men we're ever seen.
Stephanie Wilson - Yes n disappeared series! That POS cop for 17 years definitely killed those two people he arrested and many more that are unknown too. He was fired only and never faced any charges
Could the crack on the windshield have been made from the box of wine Maura had in the car? Could that be why there was also wine on the inside roof of the car? I also personally know of two instances where one's head hit the inside windshield and caused a huge spider crack with no injuries or bleeding. That is possible. Could the crack in the windshield have been made from the airbag itself?
I highly doubt a cardboard box of wine would cause that kind of damage to thick windshield glass. I think a better theory would be that one of the other bottles of alcohol might have flown forward from the backseat and hit the windshield.
He worked only 3 years as a police officer? And it makes him a detective?
PacIsle - shut the fuck up bitch! Fact finding research is just that, finding facts and researching them! You are just a little coward bitch boy who needs to fuck off
Which they need butch to be calling the police to not see what happened to maura in that window of time.
so just to keep this straight, TruthSeeker is saying that Maura had an accident BEFORE her car gave out near Butch Atwood's residence? that's an interesting theory because that may be when SHE stuffed the rag in the tailpipe. If I'm not mistaken, her father told her to place the rag in the tailpipe to keep it from smoking, or something like that. Ironically, that could also be the reason the car eventually stalled out near BA's residence and fate came calling, whatever that may be? Stuffing the rag in the tailpipe, in my opinion, is THE event that set her disappearance in motion....
TruthSeeker's theory makes no sense and is based on zero evidence. TruthSeeker has gone to the Donald Trump school of making a case which means that you just throw stuff out there and hope that enough gullible people buy it. His theory here is based on some "friend" of his with a police scanner who supposedly heard of some other accident that occurred at 7:05 pm and, of course, John Smith wildly speculates that this other accident may have involved Maura. The most ridiculous part of this theory is that Maura's airbags deployed but she still managed to drive for another 20 minutes somehow with an airbag in her face. This is when her car spun out or whatever at the accident scene that we all know. If you believe this theory, I have some swampland that you might be interested in in Florida.
Opportunistic Dirtbag wow someone hates truth seeker a bit
@@sweetcaroline6966 did you even read the comment you low IQ bitch
$4000 mystery & the rag in the muffler...... same peep.
How he says "car"...
This dude knows a little too much...
He knows the facts and common sense which so many lack. Connecting dots based on facts is simple however people don't like the truth, which is the cops murdered her!
He's a detective,the point he is trying to make I believe if you're following all these podcasts is that the damage was not done due to hitting a tree, she probably hit that kid Petrit Vasi and that's how the damage was done to the car, that theory is that she walked into the mountains and committed suicide because it was too much for her to bear,will have to put all the podcast together and be a podcast fan on the Maura Murray case to follow all the little tracks or else none of it will make sense
Maura Murray never existed. This whole story was a cautionary tale for UMass students. In 2004 there was a guy going around knocking women over at night and groping them...they came up with Maura to warn those girls not to do things alone and to go with buddies. How this has ballooned up into as much as it has...I'm not sure.
Dude that's super disrespectful. Not cool or funny.
Garden Client Moron..
@gardenclient
shame on you.
Lol