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I heard robes, at least.

I vote "robe". 🙂 I do vote yes on Crusade as well... though I do know there will be some iffy episodes there as well. BTW: I would join a good 1980's V podcast like this one. As far as this episode, I consider it a filler, but do like the developments with Garibaldi, G'kar, Vir, and Londo. I can see how some of the other subplots can help contribute to the series to drive it along, however I am not sure it would have been a problem if it were skipped... and something with more substance took its place, like more on the telepath war. But, I also don't fault JMS for setting his sights on the conclusion of the 5-year arc either.

Vir playing Fruit Ninja is adorable. Why is the Alliance not kicking the Drazi out? Well, i think that's just politics. I'm not a politician by any means, but NATO hasn't kicked anyone out ever from what i know. I'm very curious to see how your newbies like the watch order! I basically did the same on my first watch, placing everything (including Crusade) before SiL but then I did rewatch Objects at Rest just before to get back into the mood. Can't wait to see the Newbies react to the end 😢

Please more Kevin impressions. Made me giggle.

It's funny how I never twigged that this episode basically follows the two members of the Shirley Temple Fan Club - Vir and Lennier.

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Jessi, repeat after me: "The rain in Spain falls mainly in the plain." Do that 500 times.

😂😂 She said ropes! 😂😂 But Mike can use the voice tl blther Jesse more often. 😂😂 Great show guys. Loved it.

Thank you for your work.

originally I heard robe, but now i can't hear anything but rope

I heard chains and whips...

Scott you need to get you act togeher and rrcord v alrrady

It was robes but ropes is much funnier

For what it's worth, I seem to remember a DVD commentary (don't remember the episode) where JMS talks about the caste difference in bones, and the idea was that the religious caste carve theirs, and the warrior caste let them grow naturally. Also that Lennier's looked softer and smaller becuse he was relatively young, so his was akin to young buck antlers. If I find the commentary again I'll come back and add the episode name/names.

ROBE

The Drozy ambassador... ? Glad we didn't get the Coming next week commentary...

You may be cool... but you'll never be 'Lennier in a bar fight' cool 😎

The Psi-Corps is what many of the regular folks in the Star Wars galaxy imagine when they think of the Jedi Order... even to the "raised from a baby" POV. 😁 Or what would happen if the Sith ran their own order with a public face to it. This is actually one of my favorite episodes of Season 5, and for a bottle episode, it is damn good in terms of story telling. I think JMS drove his point home about Psi-Corps as a whole, but it does make for a decisive plot point that could be the catalyst for an entire season. And we get to see that Bester is by no means the outlier within the Corps. The extreme views about humanity run rampant throughout the Corps. Granted, Bester certainly has his own agenda within the Corps. But within it, his views are not that far from his peers. Bester just has better access and seniority to get his agenda points to happen. As much as they can prove some humans would be nice to telepaths, they could also prove that many hate the mas well... such as Edgars Industries, etc. 🤔 I'd choose No. 2 for the "Would you rather?" question. If they ask me, they should be prepared for my answer. Or to quote Jules from Pulp Fiction, “If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions.”

Your discussion about evil, indoctrination and responsibility reminded me a little bit of watching Eichmann in Jerusalem in a college philosophy class. The banality of evil. I guess it depends on whether you see evil as an inherent (or inherited) personal characteristic, or the description of an act, or the description of intent. You can be evil without doing evil, do evil without wanting to do evil... it's a complicated topic, but a very interesting debate. Little correction: asexual is not the same as agender or non-gendered :) As for Would you rather, I think I might pick having my thoughts displayed on my forehead... However I would also grow bangs and start wearing caps all the time.

Definitely# 2. Though my thoughts are such a rapid-fire mess, no one would know when they wanted to 🥊 me. 😄

When you were talking about having less sympathy for Bester than the younger telepaths because he's been out in the world more and should know better... Being out in the world is a *form* of indoctrination. It's like religions in the real world that do door to door proselytising, the point in that isn't actually to win over people to the religion, if that actually happens it's just a bonus. The point is to make the people doing it *feel* the hostility they get from the outside world for doing what they see as a good and important thing. When they get back home among their own people where they feel welcome and safe, it reinforces to them that that's where they're supposed to be, and that the people around them are "the good guys". We see it in this episode with Zack's interaction with Bester, and in his conversation with Franklin. Zack's attitude is understandable, but exactly the wrong way to behave if you want to have any chance of actually influencing people away from their indoctrination, because it reinforces it. Franklin has a much better understanding of how this works.

Wait a second. "Mediations on the Abyss" Weren't you missing a "T" Meditations. Oh!, and I think the First Ones already said it, but Bester is a nod to the author, yes, Alfred Bester who wrote (among other things) a novel about thought police, "The Demolished Man". Very appropriate, I think. Be seeing you some time next week for some Meditations ...

I think what you are missing on your moral discussion is, that explanation is not excuse. Their indoctrination _explains_ why that act the way they do, but it doesn't _excuse_ them. In a world with a functioning court system they should be held responsible, even though we have (a part of) the explanation why they did it.

Using alternative personalities as a plot device goes back further than stated; it was used in a Perry Mason episode (circa 1960) and Jonathan Banks played a character who kept generating new personalities (and you don't get to meet the real him until the tragic end) on Hill Street Blues (circa 1980).

Nicole: the guy they threw out the aitlock was the guy that stabbed Intern Chen. So at least unofficially, to psy corps, that's the penalty for killing a teep. But we'd never seen him before, and Harris had never met him before this episode.

I'm surprised no one elaborated that Besters name is actually Alfred, and people calling him Al was a way to show how among his own people he's that cool boss that everyone liked to work for and could call by a nickname. Also for the psi corp being more than willing to kill their own - I wonder if on some level they know that that is the least painful path and see it almost as a mercy.

Both Scott & Nicole are right, at the same time. Some people do use their sexuality to move on up, climb a ladder, whatever. Some ppl want to sleep with someone famous, because rock star appeal. Lauran struck me as the latter; elements of both could be true. Oh... and the rock star appeal gets REALLY weird when you see it in other fields. I use to drive rail... the rail fans genuinely treat us like rock stars and... it's weird & creepy & messed up. We are all warned not to let anyone have a cab ride if their young, or even if they look young, as no-one wants an accusation on their record. I'm not joking, and I wish this was not a real thing.

The other conspiracy of the week: before Jesse was a snake tamer, she was a Lion wrestler. That's where she met all the rock stars (obviously)

I disagree that Bester "just wasn't feeling it that night". For all his (many) faults, he really does love Carolyn. As long as she's still (technically) alive, he won't be unfaithful.

"...to us, they're only mundanes." How many times have we heard that phrase throughout the show? Of course those in the Corps are indoctrinated.

Godsdammit... why does this have to be the episode where I keep agreeing with Scott... :p Yep, the attack/block excercise, vorlon tentacles. Which isn't that surprising considering what we know about Vorlons adjusting the younger races.

Yeeeea... the guy out the airlock... Watch it again, he's squirming. Not unconcious or anything. So yea, I'm with Jesse, that Lauren... 'may well be psy cop material after all'.

THE CORPS IS YOUR FRIEND. TRUST THE CORPS.

I never realised this was 'Murder, she wrote: B5 edition' until now! Thanks Scott 😂👍

Loved the back n forth between Bester & Zack in this episode ❤

It's hard to excuse the trainee though - Remember Byron? He was reluctant to shoot the mundanes and had to be threatened to do it. She had no qualms

😀

I really enjoyed this review of one of my favorite episodes. I had no idea this was Bestor's final epis was considering watching the livestream of Trump's Address to National Association of Black Journalists but glad I missed that. Republicans are such weirdos... Thank you all for your work.

I was here at the start of the episode in the chat, but real life got in the way, and I had to leave. Nicole's comment about Bester's first name reminded me of Paul Simon's song, "You Can Call Me Al." I think everyone on the Podcast were too young to remember it.

OMG Byron must of indoctrinated some on the pannel. Or they think the members of PSI Corp are bad not the Organization.

The movie Primal Fear is all about personality disorders, real and faked.

Easy choice always answer honestly

IMHO, I think this was an episode that JMS/Network put out there as a possible foundation for future spin offs. It does give some great background on telepaths and the Corp

I guess It'll be interesting to see how the newbies react to the order you're going to show the remaining content in. Thematically, it'd probably be better to watch the animated film after Sleeping in Light, but there's nothing in there that really messes with the viewing of the finale. No clue what your other plans are, but I'd probably push The Lost Tales to after SiL, largely because they put a big spoiler in the opening credits and that might very well undercut the emotional impact that the same scene has in Sleeping in Light. Also, there won't be any connection to Galen's character if you don't watch A Call to Arms first. Funny enough, River of Souls aired BEFORE Objects in Motion/Objects at Rest, even though it's set after those two episodes.

Loved the debate of evil vs brainwashed.

He's so sweet. I haven't laughed so hard in any episode to date. Such a blessing to have had this interview

That man is just an absolute delight. Makes me proud to be English!

Staying up too late on a work night, but it's too fun to stop. Thank you Jason, for joining the crew, and Scott & Co. making it happen!

Yay space Aragorn is still fun!

This was a triumph. I’m making a note here, *huge success*.