Great review! And you guys did it yet again, making me think about this show differently than before. I always thought that Byron and his group-sex thing was weird, but it never occurred to me how cult-y it was until you guys mentioned it. It then made me think of how Psi-Corps is with it's whole 'the Corps is mother, the Corps is father' thing and how they take the children at a young age and indoctrinate them. So what Byron does is go to the other end of the cult axis, instead of eschewing mental sharing, sharing EVERYTHING. It makes sense, since all Byron has known is living in a cult, he's going to create a new world that's also cult-y. The irony being that even while he's forming this communal type society, he is othering all teeps, alienating mundanes with just about every action and demand he makes (mirroring Psi-Corps by holding a metaphorical gun to the various governments' heads), thus breaking trust. I have to believe JMS did this on purpose... and it makes me actually have empathy for Byron when I couldn't stand him before. Keep up the great work! Almost at the end...
Jerry Doyle and Walter Keonig had almost as good of an on-screen chemistry for parts as Andreas and Peter did. They often steal the show... and the only dynamics that were more fun to see than Bester and Garibaldi were those of Londo and G'Kar. 😀 I am so sad Byron died... just kidding, not really. That was probably the most honorable way Byron could have helped unite his people since everything was falling apart to begin with. The fact that he once worked so close to Bester helped explain a lot, and unfortunately for Byron, he helped Bester's cause seem more reasonable to most mundane people than his own -- the moment he lost control of the group. Actually, the true person to blame here is Lyta. I'm kidding, but technically, this all started getting out of hand when she slept with Byron... and through the passion, they discovered the Vorlon connection to the creation of all the telepaths. After this point, Byron goes nuts and turns a simple and peaceful goal into one of thought-terrorism (and calls for reparations in the form of a planet of their own, etc.?) and basically forces the issue. A more peaceful approach might have gotten better results. Granted, maybe not, but it could have. Obviously, Sheridan handled it poorly after that, and while Lochley did try. she made the mistake of calling Psi-Corp... and specifically Bester of all people. I am teasing about actually "blaming" Lyta since she did not expect to reveal so much to Byron, but that really was the catalyst that kicked the movement into a full revolution... and gave them a more demanding sense of entitlement. {I am not saying that they don't deserve something, but their methods for getting it went bad once they got heavy-handed about it.}
22:05 Scott says Garibaldi has been dry for over a year now, but I cant remember a time we've seen him drink before, so it's more like 5 years. Am i misremembering?
Season 1 episode, 'Survivors' Garabaldi gets drunk on the run from earth force security. I think that's the only time we see if before season 5 though.
Worst part about Byron isn't his dream of a homeworld, or anything like that, but HE IS SUCH AN ARSE to anyone outside his cult. If he wanted to piss everyone off and get nowhere, he really went about it the right way. Oh, and Scott, thankyou for your take on the death scene; I could never figure out why Byron figured kaboom was the only way of ending things... Psy Corps would have found a way to take them all in to a reeducation camp.
Spoilers... In one of the short stories, Lyta does remove Garibaldi's block (I think the short story is called The Nautilus Coil iirc). Many years later, Garibaldi (and a task force) hunt Bester down on the streets of Paris. As part of the hunt, Bester is hit with a dart with the telepath drug, and can't use his powers... And Garibaldi DECIDES not to shoot him at the end, choosing to let him face the courts. Also, the stake in the grave is /chef's kiss
Spoilers for books below. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Bester is not just a son of two resistance leaders he is also grandson of founder of PsyCorps. His grandfather was one of the first telepaths and a very powerful one. He hid his abilities and except for his telepath lover none knew he was a teep in order to have political power among Mundanes. He was also the first one to use that term. Originally the Corps was supposed to be a safe house among panicking population, which is where the motto The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father comes from. Those early teens were often orphans or runaways due to their abilities. Then he changed his mind and decided he needs to make the Corps a political power in order to get resources he needed to run it so he started changing it to draconian power hungry authoritarian organization we know now. In order to do that he hid the fact he had a child, and send her away to safety from his own organization, not expecting her to become one of his biggest opponents. Bester learned some of this when he was tested for the Corp's genetics program and he hid all of that from official records, that is where his smug superiority comes from, he was basically a crown prince of the PsiCorps. When he died, right outside his prison cell on the public square of what once was PsiCorps HQ they unveiled statue of his parents with their stolen baby as memorial to Telepath War and he died amused all the people present did not know they cheered for the same person as baby that they hated as a war criminal.
Not that this really comes from the show, but since it was discussed in beyond the rim, could you please edit your comment to start with a spoiler warning? Thanks.
Probably most people: oh god it's a psi-cop/Bester, please don't scan/hurt me Probably Garibaldi: Cmon scan me, I dare you - give me a reason to space you Just my hunch as to why Garibaldi got picked lol
Did no one remember that the only reason Garibaldi was "picked" was because he was the one the Shadows captured at the end of Z'ha'dum?
We do, but Bester still takes a strong interest to him regardless.
Garibaldi became 'interesting' to Bester after 'Dust to fust'; Bester was impressed at his detective skills during that episode.
Great review! And you guys did it yet again, making me think about this show differently than before. I always thought that Byron and his group-sex thing was weird, but it never occurred to me how cult-y it was until you guys mentioned it. It then made me think of how Psi-Corps is with it's whole 'the Corps is mother, the Corps is father' thing and how they take the children at a young age and indoctrinate them. So what Byron does is go to the other end of the cult axis, instead of eschewing mental sharing, sharing EVERYTHING. It makes sense, since all Byron has known is living in a cult, he's going to create a new world that's also cult-y. The irony being that even while he's forming this communal type society, he is othering all teeps, alienating mundanes with just about every action and demand he makes (mirroring Psi-Corps by holding a metaphorical gun to the various governments' heads), thus breaking trust. I have to believe JMS did this on purpose... and it makes me actually have empathy for Byron when I couldn't stand him before.
Keep up the great work! Almost at the end...
Love this episode, Byron bites the dust. 😂 Noobies really have trust issues.
Jerry Doyle and Walter Keonig had almost as good of an on-screen chemistry for parts as Andreas and Peter did. They often steal the show... and the only dynamics that were more fun to see than Bester and Garibaldi were those of Londo and G'Kar. 😀
I am so sad Byron died... just kidding, not really. That was probably the most honorable way Byron could have helped unite his people since everything was falling apart to begin with. The fact that he once worked so close to Bester helped explain a lot, and unfortunately for Byron, he helped Bester's cause seem more reasonable to most mundane people than his own -- the moment he lost control of the group.
Actually, the true person to blame here is Lyta. I'm kidding, but technically, this all started getting out of hand when she slept with Byron... and through the passion, they discovered the Vorlon connection to the creation of all the telepaths. After this point, Byron goes nuts and turns a simple and peaceful goal into one of thought-terrorism (and calls for reparations in the form of a planet of their own, etc.?) and basically forces the issue. A more peaceful approach might have gotten better results. Granted, maybe not, but it could have. Obviously, Sheridan handled it poorly after that, and while Lochley did try. she made the mistake of calling Psi-Corp... and specifically Bester of all people. I am teasing about actually "blaming" Lyta since she did not expect to reveal so much to Byron, but that really was the catalyst that kicked the movement into a full revolution... and gave them a more demanding sense of entitlement. {I am not saying that they don't deserve something, but their methods for getting it went bad once they got heavy-handed about it.}
*Remember Byron*
Remember Byron!
Remember Byron!
I'd rather not
who?
He was a racist supremacist that passed it on to his followers, so I will remember him as a cautionary tale.
22:05 Scott says Garibaldi has been dry for over a year now, but I cant remember a time we've seen him drink before, so it's more like 5 years. Am i misremembering?
He definitely drank in Season 1 - survivors, so maybe it's 3ish years.
Season 1 episode, 'Survivors' Garabaldi gets drunk on the run from earth force security. I think that's the only time we see if before season 5 though.
Another great discussion, I like how this show makes me rethink so many aspects of B5 👍
That is great to hear!
Worst part about Byron isn't his dream of a homeworld, or anything like that, but HE IS SUCH AN ARSE to anyone outside his cult.
If he wanted to piss everyone off and get nowhere, he really went about it the right way.
Oh, and Scott, thankyou for your take on the death scene; I could never figure out why Byron figured kaboom was the only way of ending things... Psy Corps would have found a way to take them all in to a reeducation camp.
Spoilers...
In one of the short stories, Lyta does remove Garibaldi's block (I think the short story is called The Nautilus Coil iirc).
Many years later, Garibaldi (and a task force) hunt Bester down on the streets of Paris. As part of the hunt, Bester is hit with a dart with the telepath drug, and can't use his powers...
And Garibaldi DECIDES not to shoot him at the end, choosing to let him face the courts.
Also, the stake in the grave is /chef's kiss
Spoilers for books below.
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Bester is not just a son of two resistance leaders he is also grandson of founder of PsyCorps. His grandfather was one of the first telepaths and a very powerful one. He hid his abilities and except for his telepath lover none knew he was a teep in order to have political power among Mundanes. He was also the first one to use that term. Originally the Corps was supposed to be a safe house among panicking population, which is where the motto The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father comes from. Those early teens were often orphans or runaways due to their abilities. Then he changed his mind and decided he needs to make the Corps a political power in order to get resources he needed to run it so he started changing it to draconian power hungry authoritarian organization we know now. In order to do that he hid the fact he had a child, and send her away to safety from his own organization, not expecting her to become one of his biggest opponents. Bester learned some of this when he was tested for the Corp's genetics program and he hid all of that from official records, that is where his smug superiority comes from, he was basically a crown prince of the PsiCorps. When he died, right outside his prison cell on the public square of what once was PsiCorps HQ they unveiled statue of his parents with their stolen baby as memorial to Telepath War and he died amused all the people present did not know they cheered for the same person as baby that they hated as a war criminal.
Not that this really comes from the show, but since it was discussed in beyond the rim, could you please edit your comment to start with a spoiler warning? Thanks.
@@Grey17Podcast Done. Sorry about that, I intended to do that from the start but forgot.
Bester didn't find out about his true heritage until his 30's; the records were sealed or destroyed by that early Director of Psy Corps.
We must all do our best to FORGET BYRON
Forget Byron.
Probably most people: oh god it's a psi-cop/Bester, please don't scan/hurt me
Probably Garibaldi: Cmon scan me, I dare you - give me a reason to space you
Just my hunch as to why Garibaldi got picked lol
Oh, yes! Bester is the Bester ... errr the Bestest 😉
Absolutely a much better character than Chechov