Tom Holland on the Great Awokening
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- 💥Join us on our Journey to 1 Million Subscribers💥 Award-winning author, historian and broadcaster Tom Holland joins us in the studio. Check out his latest bestselling title Dominion: The Making of the Western Mind.
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Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians. Support TRIGGERnometry:
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About TRIGGERnometry:
Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians.
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so basically thanx to the Vatican and Christianity its taken 2500yrs for us to work out why hygiene and bathing with soap and water(over oil and scraping) helps us live longer
so we became enlightened as we extended the length of time we have to r n d ie learn
taking an awfully long time to learn god is a fiction
4000yrs of fear tactics to control the plebes
some things will never change as we refuse to learn
our tech moves forward but most minds r still stuck in mud!!!!!!!
hes a shite historian , the man christ the woman the church!!!!!???????
but sure just ignore that the early Christian cults all had different views on Christ
fyi for most Christ was not Jesus!!! and Jesus was against the treasury sry mean temple\church!!!
Christians just love laying claim to human rites
ummmm no mate defo not
murder blood cults r the opposite of human rites
baby boys have rite to their foreskin
women the rite to autonomy
humans the rite to not be murdered for thoughts or thinking
hes a moron
You have to see the story about Wes from Staffordshire who has been banned from Starbucks for a joke
Would Triggemometry be interested in the history of a woman who descended from the Bruce linage by Robert the first Stewart down to James Stewart 7th Earl of Atholl as well as 7th Earl Innermeath, who was banished to England for refusing to enter marriage by incest. That linage was the maternal descent her paternal descent was by the Israelite High Priest linage of Judah down to the Maccabees. That woman has an important message that would end world tyranny.
Tom is articulating things which I have been mulling over for a long time, however, he has thought it through far more clearly and he contextualises current social attitudes brilliantly because of his understanding of history.
Listening to Tom Holland last year was a part of our Awakening again to our Christian heritage as the roots of Western Civilization and the waters we swim in. In deepest gratitude to Tom Holland. (And to you both and Triggernometry).
I feel the same. Holland has been part of my Christian awakening. Between Holland and Peterson I am closer now to my true inner religion than ever in my life.
As I grew up in the 1970s I found Carl Jung's ideas liberated me from materialism.
I thoroughly enjoy reading the scriptures as a consequence of Dr Jung's ideas.
Don Cupitt's attempt to get people to view the effect of modernism on the human creature in his book and TV series The Sea of Faith in the 1980s was a similar attempt to those of Peterson and Johnathan Pageau, but it failed to gain traction with the public's imagination.
I spent several years in the Middle East where I learned that Islam is a distinctively different to Christianity. It appears dead and authoritarian to me.
Disappointed Tom Holland thinks destroying statues can be approved of in the same interview he discusses ISIS.
He seems dismissive of the lessons that statues bear witness to, and agrees with Critical Race Theory that evidence of past values being swept away is just as important as acknowledging and tolerating ugly ideas - which is the foundation of the liberal idea.
Have you seen Tom Holland's interview with the evangelist Glen Scrivener? Well worth a listen, as was his recent interview with Douglas Murray.
@@AndyJarman Thanks for flagging up Don Cupitt's series. I have just found it on youtube and will give it my attention. Not having a tv for the vast majority of my life, child and adult, has protected me from a lot of drivel, but one has also missed some of the gems. Thank Goodness for youtube (!)
I too gained vast insight from my reading of Jung, but I wasn't quite up to reading the whole canon. There is a lot to wade through!
I thought it odd that Holland approved of pulling down the Coulston statue. Not cool!
Still, some good things are happening, in that there are two new political parties afoot - Heritage Party and Laurence Fox's new idea.
There is hope yet!
Best wishes.
The Left keep repeating their oldest errors ruclips.net/video/0RALUFice3c/видео.html
What a wonderful interview with an extraordinary, thoughtful and decent man. My only regret is that such people are so rare, still less influential, in the modern world.
The great Chesterton said it all and more neatly many years ago:
The modern world is not evil; in some ways the modern world is far too good. It is full of wild and wasted virtues. When a religious scheme is shattered (as Christianity was shattered at the Reformation), it is not merely the vices that are let loose. The vices are, indeed, let loose, and they wander and do damage. But the virtues are let loose also; and the virtues wander more wildly, and the virtues do more terrible damage. The modern world is full of the old Christian virtues gone mad. The virtues have gone mad because they have been isolated from each other and are wandering alone. Thus some scientists care for truth; and their truth is pitiless. Thus some humanitarians only care for pity; and their pity (I am sorry to say) is often untruthful.
I would have appreciated it more had Holland stressed more the madness of modern virtues.
"The virtues have gone mad because they have been isolated from each other and are wandering alone. Thus some scientists care for truth; and their truth is pitiless. Thus some humanitarians only care for pity; and their pity (I am sorry to say) is often untruthful."
Awesome quote!
Yup. Evolutionary biology doesn't give a #$^% whether you agree with it not; no more than gravity. You either understand it, or are at its whim.
Jim Luebke pity helps no one..it keeps them in a victim mode...ie powerless and helpless. People can only be empowered when they find a way not to believe their disempowering thoughts ...one such way is Byron Katie’s ‘ the work’
@@sheilakirwan9462 I think there's a valid point to be made against "being pitiless", that doesn't involve dependency. Taking some care to slow down in school zones just in case a kid runs into the street, isn't the same as teaching a kid it's OK to run into the street.
Jim Luebke agree - really felt like I learnt something from this :)
Absolutely love Tom Holland. Best hour yet.
May be interested in this video: ruclips.net/video/-AbYIj5TCuw/видео.html
It started as an interview, it ended up turning into a masterclass on theology.
If you like Tom Holland and theology, I'd recommend the conversation he had with NT Wright a few years ago. Amazing conversation
@@manuelmontiel8085 May be interested in this video: ruclips.net/video/-AbYIj5TCuw/видео.html
We have been badly misled about Christianity,
or have we misled ourselves?
That's not Spiderman!
I was going to write the same thing, lol. 😂
it is, they're just using a more recent photograph
Victoria Ward lol
@@bigpete4227 :D
No it's hedgehogman
Woke already has complete control of the universities. So we are pretty far down that road.
As someone with multiple university degrees studying recently at university again, our universities are heavily hijacked.
It’s NOT arts, it’s everywhere. I’ll say it again!
It’s NOT arts.
Free speech? Dead. Critical thinking? Dead!
The MOST important attribute is identity politics. I don’t think there’s a lecture where identity politics isn’t slipped in. Then there’s overt aggression in lectures and seminars (mostly seminars due to lack of camera recordings).
The bullying is intense ... by staff!
Evergreen College is a great example.
@@wb5036 get a hidden camera and post it all
It's taking over the corporate world now.
@@lariatjb Evergreen College enrollment went into free-fall after the Weinstein incident.
You can learn the skills for most gainful employment online, now.
Woke universities can be safely abandoned, and nothing of value will be lost. Traditionalists should prepare, over the next decade, to buy out bankrupt Woke universities and return the to their former glory.
I was hooked in the first 3 minutes. What an excellent, excellent conversation. Tom Holland and Triggernometry are class acts.
Really interesting perspective from Tom. Love his books and found this historical contextualisation of the current politics somehow reassuring. Happy to be a subscriber supporting these long-form interviews and guests. Keep up the good work.
May be interested in this video: ruclips.net/video/-AbYIj5TCuw/видео.html
An interesting and informative interview. Tom Holland shows his historical and intellectual class and refuses to be drawn into anti-woke tropes. In fact he, despite the leading questions, skilfully schools the interviewers in the benefits of progressive thinking without as much as a peep in response. I for one enjoyed this and learned a lot.
Gregory of Nyssa declared slavery contrary to Christian teaching in the 4th Century.
I don't know what you guys did but this was at last a really quality interview. This level is what brought me to watching you in the first place. I hope you keep up the good work.
Fascinating stuff, providing several examples of why history should never ignored or erased from the public consciousness.
And yet he has no problem with removing statues of people he disagrees with - Coulston's in Bristol.
May be interested in this video: ruclips.net/video/-AbYIj5TCuw/видео.html
What a kind and erudite man. I’m entirely with him on the dearth of hedgehogs.
He seems pretty woke in situations regarding the mistreatment of hedgehogs.
This was without doubt the most interesting and educational episode of Triggernometry I have seen! Thank you to Konstantin and Francis for the platform, and thank you to Tom for doing the interview.
Brilliant! I've enjoyed it very much, especially as someone who loves ancient world and as a Catholic.
Tom Holland is great, I love his books and appearances on BBC In our time, one of the only programs left thats not been spoiled by Wokeness B-locks. Good work!
Pleasantly surprised at the last question :D Britain's wildlife is dying. Everytime I see the 'rolling hills of the country' I just get chills, there's nothing there...
Look harder.
Absolutely brilliant! I could listen to Tom all day. Great interview 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Zero conspiracy and propaganda. All truths and 100% history and philosophy. Gotta love Tom Holland the historian. Thanks Triggernometry.
What a bloody brilliant episode! This guy is well worth listening to and probably worth reading. So much of what he explained makes sense.
Never knew Tom Holland was anti-woke!! Makes me want to read even more of his works.
Dominion: The Making of the Western Mind is well your time. He has a very straight forward writing syle.
Republic and Persian Fire are also excellent.
I don’t think he’s ‘anti-woke’ as such, at least he doesn’t define himself that way. He’s just aware of the historical context more than most. I recommend his books if you like history. He’s one of the best writers out there.
His book are brilliant
Seemed pretty woke to me
A perceptive and wise analysis. We never hear discussions like this on mainstream media,
Great guest. Great interview. Great talk. This is what makes western civilization great. Talking freely. Exchanging ideas. Learning new things.
I totally agree! Even though this time I'm finding myself disagreeing with a lot of what the guest has to say. Still good to hear the different viewpoints!
Brilliant guest; great truths in his views of Western history!
0:19:00 Christians being somehow blamed for not ending slavery earlier is like social workers being blamed for not eradicating child abuse by now.
why did they fucking start slavery in the first place?
That's like congratulating a nonce who stops being a nonce.
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
This is one of my favourite interviews; Tom Holland is a man I would love to go and drink a beer with. I am an atheist, and I doubt Jesus himself could be persuade me otherwise, but that doesn't mean I don't see much in Christianity that I both respect and love; it has brought us some fantastic architecture, art, literature and music and follows tenets (which I would argue aren't Christian but adopted by them) which are fundamentally good. I believe the death of christianity has in may way made society in the UK worse. I think Tom's observation on Wokeism being another flare up of rebellion against the Catholic church an interesting point, but equally I reject the concept of original sin and the idea of a human being 'perfect' as nonsense and an irrelevance. How any intelligent human can consider these sensible and justifiable (and while we're on the subject, eternal Hell and the 'unforgivable curse' too), utter twaddle. I think we can be no more 'perfect' than can a Fox or Magpie, and our arrogance in thinking we are unique in the world (let alone the universe) laughable and delusional in the extreme. We are just another animal on the planet, whose evolutionary route has invested deeply in brain size. It's now starting to look like this could be a dead-end. Grand thoughts and gestures as we destroy the planet and wipe out all other mammals is so typical of humanity. God proved himself to be a dick very quickly when he said we were free to use all other living things. Take note - nature has a way of dealing with population explosion.
ETA: Since when did Christians always think slavery was wrong? I absolutely disagree with this. The bible gives clear instruction on what you can do with your slaves (both Jews and non-jews), and even the New Testament says 'slaves obey your masters'. Modern Christians make up ridiculous expositions about 'indentured servitude' but it cuts no ice. It would be very easy for both God and Jesus to say 'dude, slavery is really bad, don't do it. It's actually worse than eating shellfish or saying God sucks, okay?'. But neither(both, all three) of them did. So I absolutely disagree with him here. I think Tom would be far better to admit Christianity was a form of social control that suited the time and place it was created, but wasn't written by some weird, jealous, hateful yet loving eternal divine being who creates you in his form and knows everything about you before you are born, but still weirdly gets angry every time you sin, even though he knew you were going to do it, and actually made it so you would.
Yes, well put.. Agree with you wholeheartedly.
Great comment
Where did God say you're free to use all things? Certainly saying, "God s#@ks' is worse than slavery! Slavery in the OT was indentured servitude and kidnap was punishable by death! However it's good that you appreciate Holland; maybe you should read Dominion?
Early christians like Paul believed that doomsday would happen very soon and probably in their lifetime. Therefore it was not their goal to change society but individuals. Social justice for coming generations was not in their focus. They were not "progressives".
@@piushalg8175 that's true in part. Paul in the Acts period did believe that Christ's return was imminent as did the other apostles but nevertheless it was contingent on Israel's response "therefore repent and return so that...he may send Jesus the Christ appointed for you" Acts 3:19. However it's clear that in his post Acts letters Ephesians and Colossians the situation has changed. Read Ephesians 3:1-10 as a new revelation in response to the events of Acts 28:17-28
notice that the right has a CONVERSATION, they don't yell, burn and accuse.
Well said - It’s called intelligence and knowledge, which the WOKE don’t have they are basically ignorant.
Conversations are tools of white supremacy. Intelligence is fascist.
@@smoothinvestigator Ones where they don't accuse the president of being a racist/homophobic bigot? Which ones?
I don't know if I'd call Holland right wing
They’re all left wing by their own admission. The left is fully capable of having a conversation with the right and do so routinely. The problem is extreme voices on both sides are amplified to the point of being mainstreamed. The far-right and far-left are two sides of the same coin.
Great, I really enjoy Tom Hollands work. Super guest.
Great interview. This guy really has a clearer inside into what is going on now, and what *has* been going on for the last couple of thousand years.
Tom Holland is such a gift.
I'm not a Christian but found this very interesting
I don't think you have to be christian to recognise it's part in history.
You don't have to be a Christian to find it interesting. The part I find interesting is that he's saying that we are all Christians even if we think we aren't.
@@Captain_MonsterFart how is that? I was brought up in Japan with no Christians or Christian traditions.
@James Donnelly I know, I'm sitting here in Co. Monaghan in the Irish countryside but I have to be honest with myself on the question of God. Plus it's fun to argue with my father over a bottle of whisky at Christmas 😂
@@brianfinnegan664 Of course there are christians in Japan.[Jesuit martyrs]. In Tokyo : the Jesuit St.Sophia University,St Mary's Cathedral.Were you just trying to be funny ?
Absolute banger guys. Loved this. I’m getting such a broad education through TRIGGERnometry.
The hosts keep trying to drag him into cheap right-wing culture war nonsense but he doesn't take the bait and continues to provide informed, thoughtful answers. Bravo Tom
This is one of the best podcasts I've ever seen. Tom Holland's encyclopedic knowledge of social, cultural and historical accounts provides excellent insight into the issues of today. Right up until the final question about what we should be talking about but aren't. Hedgehogs?!? Really?? One of the main reasons we have culturally aggressive movements like 'woke' is because we've denied young people the very opportunities that previous generations took for granted. Addressing a broken planning system, so that we might meet demand for new houses is principal amongst them. Failing to do this, usually due to 'Nimby-ism', and that certain people believe HEDGEHOGS are more important than homes for young people, is the main reason why society is so toxic and divisive. Honestly, I thought his final comment was utterly bizarre.
Fantastic and interesting interview, and love his last point about hedgehogs
May be interested in this video: ruclips.net/video/-AbYIj5TCuw/видео.html
I listened to this on the bus and I literally clapped really loudly after the amazing point Tom made between 36-39 minutes into this discussion, such a brilliant point well made, I only wish I could be as articulate (yes everyone looked at me like I was a nutter!)
Tom is wonderful, so classy and so agree about the hedgehogs 🦔 ❤️
A socially just society requires socially just people. Anyone who falls short is unacceptable.
I feel Holland bluffed his way through alot of answers to fall back on an optimistic deterministic view that progress is somehow right and an X on a map where we are just on the journey to. To me this ignores that each generation has a battle of ideas to which there are winners and losers. Societies can go backwards aswell as forwards. Iran in the 70s was a liberal country or even take Cambodia turn to the Khmer Rouge.
Amazing guest guys and his 'last question' answer was spot on.
Missing: When Tom said he had no problem with Colston's statue coming down, I'd have asked if he's happy with all the demands to follow that up with this, that and the other, and if he agrees with Sadiq Khan and his "Commission" looking at statues, monuments, street names, plaques, murals and works of art, in London to see if they are "worthy". Does he support that and crucially, where would he stop? Tom saw ISIS and the Taliban tear statues etc down (whatever they were it does not matter on principle), so I'm surprised at his outlook here.
Correct he is obviously on the left, not minding at all if the "wokist" movement turns out to be successful in obliteratering that part of our heritage that he describes as conservative, right and even racist.
Veeeeeery interesting.
I love his books. They are facinating.
Well that was just fantastic. So many light bulbs going on in my head. I hardly know where to start - but I will start by ordering the book.
I will be curious to know how he landed the role of Spider-Man while running a pie manufacturer and a small European country
With great power comes great responsibility.
Lol
I will keep moving thx
GK Chesterton said something like, 'The doctrine of original sin is the only cheerful view of humanity'. I think he was right.
Wide ranging & really interesting.
I’m right with him on hedgehogs. Having not seen any for years, we have a good number (some massive) in our neighbourhood at the moment! 👍🏻🙂
Tom Holland, what a treat!
Praise the Lord for common sense.
When he speaks of a dead American mattering a thousand times more than a dead Yaziti (around 36, 37) was so clear to me when the bomb went off at the airport during the Afghanistan “pull-out” and we heard over and over again about the two hand-fulls of Americans who died and hardly mentioned were the hundreds of Afghans. It was sick.
The imperfect can NOT perfect society. I’m with Augustine on this.
Loved his books and respect him even more now. What a fantastic interview.
This was a great discussion , thanks guys and Tom
I loved the expressions on your faces when you asked the last question. I was also expecting something different and it turns out you must save the Hedgehogs. I will be buying a Tom book soon cheers
This guy is pretty cool. I really, really liked Persian Fire and I keep dipping my toes into Rubicon like every few....years....it is a book I mean to read because I trust it will be worth it, but anyway, Tom Holland is great
I don't think the "original sin" mindset comes from religion, religion is just one expression of something in the human mindset
Wow!👏
Fascinating perspective! I love the true study of history. Thanks for this interview
When I hear a man say, "my husband" it grates on my nerves like poor grammar. That said, I don't think homosexuality should be illegal.
Interesting to hear folks speak of slavery through the lens of England’s participation. As a Canadian born 60 year old (non historian) , growing up I learned of slavery from an American perspective but not at school. It was books and movies (Roots) and all about the responsibility the Americans had in it. The blame for slavery was placed with them, and there was no focus placed on England. As an adult after graduating from college I came to understand that it was practiced elsewhere in the world. Oddly the secular public and secondary schools I attended in Canada taught absolutely nothing about slavery, the American civil war, or even the Second World War!
I think I remember Thomas Sowell calling out Roots for completely ignoring the role of native African slave traders had, conquering and enslaving huge numbers up people in exchange for trade goods. Doesn’t diminish the brutality of the Europeans, but much progressive ideology is based on the myth of slavery being a uniquely Anglo phenomenon. Even Malcolm X initially based his whole worldview around that misconception.
Really fascinating interview. Many thanks for this
The Left keep repeating their oldest errors ruclips.net/video/0RALUFice3c/видео.html
Very interesting and enlightening conversation. Quite enjoy these academic types you have on the show, Nigel Biggar was another good one.
Fascinating guest, great that the guys gave Thomas the space to talk (as always). Some of the points raised reminded me of Jordan Peterson's Biblical lecture series.
The Left keep repeating their oldest errors ruclips.net/video/0RALUFice3c/видео.html
When you look into the abyss, the abyss looks into you.
"When you shake hands with the abyss it shakes your hand back . . . And becomes a bro"
- some random stoner
What a wonderful conversation. History should never be re-written, just added to in order to increase the knowledge of mankind. Tom Holland came across with a wonderfully modest manner to provide a thoughtful, considered view.
I, as a slightly old fashioned Tory, am ashamed and surprised to find myself wanting to conserve things like personal freedoms, the environment and the rights of the working classes. I thought the left were supposed to be the torch bearers of these causes.
A great author.
Just a note that the very public recent cases of "police brutality" do not involve "innocent" men or women dying at the hands of the police. Otherwise, very interesting discussion.
Yes. And George Floyd died of a drug overdose, not from the cop’s knee on his neck. More cities will burn when that verdict is read.
Loved all Tom Holland's books. To hear he's anti woke is yet another reason to support him
He is not really anti-woke. He seems to want to use them for advancing his own goals., like German conservatives wanted to use Hitler in the 20's
One of the best episodes ever...👍
Some ages believed that the Great Heroes were all from ancient times, and the present state of humanity was a degraded form.
The Woke believe that they are the only Great Heroes, and all past states of humanity were degraded.
More interesting than the conversation is..... WHY IS THE ROOM MADE FROM MINECRAFT BLOCKS?!?!?
I’m an American and a Christian and grew up going to church. I’ve been to foursquare, Baptist, and Catholic Churches. I’ve never heard “the man is Christ and the woman is the church.” Is that a thing somewhere?
Although Tom Holland and Jordan Peterson seem to be aligned on many principles, they seem to have a very different take on Nietzsche. I would like to see them have a conversation.
Brilliant. This episode was superb.
Dominium is the best (and hardest) book I have read in 20 years. Life changing
What a fascinating and thought-provoking conversation, gentlemen!
Ta very muchly. ☝️😎
The set is so nice
Really interesting and erudite interview.Extinction Rebellion have become thrilled with their own power and its all about a day out grandstanding and dressing up. Holland was entirely right about the Hedgehogs. I doubt if half the XR have ever seen one.
Im so glad I came across this channel.
The Left keep repeating their oldest errors ruclips.net/video/0RALUFice3c/видео.html
I think Tom ended his talk by saying, 'Clean up your own room first'.
Thank you! Very interesting, at least what I understood so far. What I am missing is the influence of atheism, of philosophers like Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Karl Marx and all the post modernists. But maybe I missed something.
Too bad he's deeply misunderstood Christianity. The heart of Christianity is not you cleansing yourself. It's the opposite. Someone else cleansing you.
Exactly. Like most organized moral systems, it encourages you to create a fake persona that will fit what is expected of you, which leads all all kinds of neuroses. Besides being disempowering in itself.
There is a Christian idea of Kenosis a self-emptying in order to fill your being with the Great Other (God).
@@zeb358 Christians see their interpretation of God as their father. If you had kids would you like them to empty themselves of their essence so you can fill them with yours or encourage them to be unique individuals, from whom you might even learn a thing or two as they grow?
@@ragnarok291273 In John of the Cross's thinking, kenosis is the concept of the 'self-emptying' of one's own will and becoming entirely receptive to God and the divine will. It is used both as an explanation of the Incarnation, and an indication of the nature of God's activity and will.
Are we all capable of seeing things the same way at the same time?
thank you!
Another superb interview. Thank you.
The Left keep repeating their oldest errors ruclips.net/video/0RALUFice3c/видео.html
John Milton,the second greatest English poet, who was a devout Puritan Christian and Oliver Cromwell's Latin secretary, was the first person to write a detailed support for almost total freedom of the press in his "Areopagitica"-however, he ruled out allowing the intolerant to have freedom of the press which in his day was the authoritarian Catholic church which sponsored the inquisition and censorship of books.(The index)Milton's essay had a big influence on the arguments for the second Amendment in the U.S.
I still need to read his book dominion, but based on his discussions here and elsewhere it seems like his attribution of exclusive cultural norms really needs a more substantial comparative religions component. Otherwise it seems a little bit trivial to conclude that the ancient morays differed systematically from those in the Christian (and post-christian) west.
Because I find it really difficult to buy into premises like “the revolutionary impulse is uniquely Christian” without really good proof. After all, Chinese civilization has had religious upheavals and politicized religions going back millennia.
No. Not like in the west. China is very stable for centuries. Autocracy was and is the chinese model.
@@epicccurusaurelius2634 I suggest looking into the Yellow turban rebellion and the taiping rebellion if you need examples of religiously induced uprisings destabilizing China. As for autocracy always being the Chinese model, that’s pretty misleading. It taps into the frequent assumption that Mao’s live for legalism (the ancient Chinese political philosophy) is somehow representing all China.
I think if you place democracy and autocracy is the only alternatives then yes China has rarely had democratic institutions. However the spread of democracy originated with pre-Christian Greeks.
Love these guys
I’ve always appreciated Tom’s work and words and have regarded him as “the smarter Holland” - until today. Through Tom’s thoughtful argument that woke and “the great awokening” was a histrionically comparative progressive Christian convulsion of establish moral order and then not even intimate at and ignore the racialist and racist rooting of the movement in radical militant black and the misandry of third and fourth wave feminist - liberation ideology is intellectually disingenuous. MeToo/BLM/AntiFa are counterfactual in their origins and based on lies turned into sloganeering. The one stated goal if these allied movements is the complete destruction of (white) western cultural institutions and moral norms (the framework that protects and perpetuates white supremacy). It is an uninformed (deliberately misinformed and programmed) mass LARPing of a Maoist cultural revolution on the rode to tribal nihilism. That you didn’t even touch on this component of the awokening - makes the whole talk suspect.
I love Tom Holland, but what occurred to me early on in the discussion was that American Christians must have see a difference between people being created in the image of God equally and therefore they were due equal acceptance and the idea that it meant the what they understood as sinful must also be accepted equally. Like maybe they were called to love and teach and accept the gays - but that it didn't mean they works sanctify or attend their unions and later marriages or see them as appropriate parents to adopted children or administer sacraments to practicing homosexuals. Like wouldn't it be the same as a priest visiting prisoners, but not believing their crime was actually ok and their presence there was unjust? Like people sin but they're still people? Idk - Im not really a believer and wasn't alive then, but ir just don't seem like a dilemma. Ive heard "love the dinner not the sin." before I think thats what Im getting at.
His books have a definite Christian undertone these days, I'm not keen.
I wrote another comment here that he’s off point on this one.
Short summary: Woke is a mob, not virtuous. Christianity is no more virtuous than other religions.
My other comment is much more detailed, including reference to crusades and the puritans.
I think Tom is mistaking morality with fear. We hate things we are afraid of. Nobody is afraid of Satanists but good vid non the less.
yeah sure, the rulers of society who can happily "epstein" people, sure, no cabal to be worried about...
No one is afraid of Satanists!!?? There is a whole movement sweeping the globe that is about Satanists stealing children to drink their blood!! Throughout the 1980s there was a movement across the US and also Europe about Satanists kidnapping children! This is QAnon and the Satanic panic!
The people who fear these things very much think that Satan is real. But just because you fear something doesn't make it real. That is what a moral panic is.
The Left keep repeating their oldest errors ruclips.net/video/0RALUFice3c/видео.html
First time I ever heard an intellectual say that the doctrine of Original Sin was a good idea.
Superb! thanks so much.
Totally agree, we cannot extract ourselves from deep sin, in one way or another,
we are complicit, in suffering, because life is suffering, which means, we should probably take seriously the idea of original sin.
The correct response is then to assume nobody can be trusted as a pure authority.
A very great degree of moral overconfidence.
This guy was one of those touting the smear that Jeremy Corbyn was an anti-semite
He looks different in the Spiderman movies.
Everyone needs to fill the churches of the Church of England again as cultural Christians and use the good bits of Christianity to fight for the dignity of all humans, not just the identity groups we each belong to. Can we change the time though? I don’t want to give up my lie in on Sunday morning.
Church of England has become utterly ridiculous. In their current form they are doomed.