The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father - Babylon 5 Grey 17 Podcast - 103
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- A telepath is hiding out on the station, and Bester has two interns with him to help hunt the telepath down. Let's discuss The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father!
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Hosts: Scott, Blake, Mike, Kevin, Emily, Jessi, John, Justin, Andrew, and Nicole
Patreon Producers: Rosemary Bayliss, Craig Berry, Alexander Böhm, Matt Dennis, Melissa L. Hash, Yuri Hood, Jr., Michael Huyett, AaronK, Joseph Weiss, Laura W.
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Loved the debate of evil vs brainwashed.
I never realised this was 'Murder, she wrote: B5 edition' until now! Thanks Scott 😂👍
IMHO, I think this was an episode that JMS/Network put out there as a possible foundation for future spin offs. It does give some great background on telepaths and the Corp
I'm surprised no one elaborated that Besters name is actually Alfred, and people calling him Al was a way to show how among his own people he's that cool boss that everyone liked to work for and could call by a nickname. Also for the psi corp being more than willing to kill their own - I wonder if on some level they know that that is the least painful path and see it almost as a mercy.
Loved the back n forth between Bester & Zack in this episode ❤
It's hard to excuse the trainee though - Remember Byron? He was reluctant to shoot the mundanes and had to be threatened to do it. She had no qualms
When you were talking about having less sympathy for Bester than the younger telepaths because he's been out in the world more and should know better...
Being out in the world is a *form* of indoctrination. It's like religions in the real world that do door to door proselytising, the point in that isn't actually to win over people to the religion, if that actually happens it's just a bonus. The point is to make the people doing it *feel* the hostility they get from the outside world for doing what they see as a good and important thing. When they get back home among their own people where they feel welcome and safe, it reinforces to them that that's where they're supposed to be, and that the people around them are "the good guys".
We see it in this episode with Zack's interaction with Bester, and in his conversation with Franklin. Zack's attitude is understandable, but exactly the wrong way to behave if you want to have any chance of actually influencing people away from their indoctrination, because it reinforces it. Franklin has a much better understanding of how this works.
I disagree that Bester "just wasn't feeling it that night". For all his (many) faults, he really does love Carolyn. As long as she's still (technically) alive, he won't be unfaithful.
Wait a second. "Mediations on the Abyss" Weren't you missing a "T" Meditations.
Oh!, and I think the First Ones already said it, but Bester is a nod to the author, yes, Alfred Bester who wrote (among other things) a novel about thought police, "The Demolished Man". Very appropriate, I think.
Be seeing you some time next week for some Meditations ...
Your discussion about evil, indoctrination and responsibility reminded me a little bit of watching Eichmann in Jerusalem in a college philosophy class. The banality of evil. I guess it depends on whether you see evil as an inherent (or inherited) personal characteristic, or the description of an act, or the description of intent. You can be evil without doing evil, do evil without wanting to do evil... it's a complicated topic, but a very interesting debate.
Little correction: asexual is not the same as agender or non-gendered :)
As for Would you rather, I think I might pick having my thoughts displayed on my forehead... However I would also grow bangs and start wearing caps all the time.
Godsdammit... why does this have to be the episode where I keep agreeing with Scott... :p
Yep, the attack/block excercise, vorlon tentacles. Which isn't that surprising considering what we know about Vorlons adjusting the younger races.
I was here at the start of the episode in the chat, but real life got in the way, and I had to leave.
Nicole's comment about Bester's first name reminded me of Paul Simon's song, "You Can Call Me Al." I think everyone on the Podcast were too young to remember it.
I think what you are missing on your moral discussion is, that explanation is not excuse.
Their indoctrination _explains_ why that act the way they do, but it doesn't _excuse_ them. In a world with a functioning court system they should be held responsible, even though we have (a part of) the explanation why they did it.
The other conspiracy of the week: before Jesse was a snake tamer, she was a Lion wrestler. That's where she met all the rock stars (obviously)
Definitely# 2. Though my thoughts are such a rapid-fire mess, no one would know when they wanted to 🥊 me. 😄
Nicole: the guy they threw out the aitlock was the guy that stabbed Intern Chen. So at least unofficially, to psy corps, that's the penalty for killing a teep.
But we'd never seen him before, and Harris had never met him before this episode.
The Psi-Corps is what many of the regular folks in the Star Wars galaxy imagine when they think of the Jedi Order... even to the "raised from a baby" POV. 😁 Or what would happen if the Sith ran their own order with a public face to it.
This is actually one of my favorite episodes of Season 5, and for a bottle episode, it is damn good in terms of story telling. I think JMS drove his point home about Psi-Corps as a whole, but it does make for a decisive plot point that could be the catalyst for an entire season.
And we get to see that Bester is by no means the outlier within the Corps. The extreme views about humanity run rampant throughout the Corps. Granted, Bester certainly has his own agenda within the Corps. But within it, his views are not that far from his peers. Bester just has better access and seniority to get his agenda points to happen.
As much as they can prove some humans would be nice to telepaths, they could also prove that many hate the mas well... such as Edgars Industries, etc. 🤔
I'd choose No. 2 for the "Would you rather?" question. If they ask me, they should be prepared for my answer. Or to quote Jules from Pulp Fiction, “If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions.”
I really enjoyed this review of one of my favorite episodes. I had no idea this was Bestor's final epis was considering watching the livestream of Trump's Address to National Association of Black Journalists but glad I missed that. Republicans are such weirdos... Thank you all for your work.
Easy choice always answer honestly
also it was never going to be a 1 hour episode,,,,
Using alternative personalities as a plot device goes back further than stated; it was used in a Perry Mason episode (circa 1960) and Jonathan Banks played a character who kept generating new personalities (and you don't get to meet the real him until the tragic end) on Hill Street Blues (circa 1980).
Also, TNT studio execs killed Crusade long before it actually was in final form; it wasn't that they saw the finished product and just didn't like it. They wanted to break the deal with JMS but did not want to take the blame for the breach of contract, so they just did everything they could to destroy the project and that led to most of the problems with the episodes that we actually got (including the problems with broadcast order).
THE CORPS IS YOUR FRIEND.
TRUST THE CORPS.
Both Scott & Nicole are right, at the same time. Some people do use their sexuality to move on up, climb a ladder, whatever. Some ppl want to sleep with someone famous, because rock star appeal.
Lauran struck me as the latter; elements of both could be true.
Oh... and the rock star appeal gets REALLY weird when you see it in other fields. I use to drive rail... the rail fans genuinely treat us like rock stars and... it's weird & creepy & messed up.
We are all warned not to let anyone have a cab ride if their young, or even if they look young, as no-one wants an accusation on their record.
I'm not joking, and I wish this was not a real thing.
The movie Primal Fear is all about personality disorders, real and faked.
😀