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Endgame - Babylon 5 Grey 17 Podcast - 87
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- Опубликовано: 19 мар 2024
- The war for Earth begins, and Marcus fights to save the woman he loves. Let's discuss Endgame!
If you have just started watching #Babylon5, have no fear! Our newbies are right there with you. If you have watched the series before, and you want to take a deeper dive, stay until the end when we go beyond the rim and talk spoilers for the entire show!
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Hosts: Scott, Blake, Emily, Mike, Kevin, Justin, Jessi, and Nicole
Patreon Producers: Rosemary Bayliss, Sarah Brown, Alexander Böhm, Matt Dennis, Melissa L. Hash, Michael Huyett, AaronK, Andre Lunde, Starfury 5470, Joseph Weiss, and Kelly
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Re: Marcus. You all made good points, but i dont think anyone brought up the fact that the man was a hopeless romantic. And I don't simply mean that he was in love with Ivanova, I mean that he's exactly the type of person that the idea of the Grand Final Gesture would appeal to. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends".
There was no way he *could* do anything else.
An episode we won't forget. From Sheridan's speech to the "Ramming speed", to Ivanova and Marcus.
I love it!
Loved this episode guys. regarding Marcus leaving the fight. He didn't join the rangers because he believed in the cause. He joined out of grief and guilt. He was looking for a way to try to redeem himself for his part in his brother's death. While he did love Ivanova I think his primary reason was that he didn't want to lose anyone else. So his leaving makes sense to me.
As for Sheridan using the telepath that was , I believe, Sheridan s Kobi Oshi Maru. He has two bad choices. Use the telepaths and risk 30 lives or don't use them and risk over 30,000. Either way people were going to die. It's simply a matter of how many. He needed to get to Earth and the only he could do that was by taking out Mars.
"We have come home!" Best speech in whole show.
I only wish that they could have brought Bruce McGill back for this episode as well; he has experience at calling for "Ramming Speed"!
I can put lee agree with Scott about General Lefcourt and The EAS Apollo, also President Clark actually took the Hitler way out.
Although It's believe by some that Hitler also took Cyanide before he shot himself but that's neither here nor there.
From all of us who were raised with Schoolhouse Rock, everyone please consult the Conjunction Junction video for the proper use of "neither" and "nor" (and similar grammatical terms).
Another great episode(&podcast). Keep up the good work people :)
Shenanigans :) Love the banter guys. Great podcast.
This was such a great episode that I fell asleep after about 30 minutes in. I missed so many snarky opportunities in the live chat.
Not due to the level of the discussion. I was just tired. I am looking forward to next week's episode. Jessi was so much more involved in this episode. I wonder if she was wound up before joining the taping of the show.
Podcast goes live here at 3am.
We all still need to sleep mate
Earth Final Conflict is pretty good.This spiraled out of control at the end with the noobies.
Great chat as always on one of my favorite episodes! Just one minor note - I’m pretty sure it’s not Sheridan whose code name is Snow White, but Marcus - which makes all kinds of sense. 😂 That’s a detail that’s always made me laugh in an episode that’s usually mostly making me cry.
Yes, Snow White is pure and apparently EVERYBODY knows it.
Well well well. We meet again!
Shenanigans :D can't believe you guys are nearly done with season 4!
Robin hood did die from being bled, by a doctor. Markus ran off to fight Na'Roon to protect Dalen. You can't forget he was trained to think like a Minbari. And wouldn't Lenier do that for Dalen.
Great episode, guys, with another lively discussion.
But speaking of following orders, could you just imagine if General Lefcourt had arrived at Earth and followed his original orders and had destroyed the Agamemnon instead? Oops. haha
p.s. shenanigans
You will have to pry my Oxford commas from my cold dead hands. Shenanigans!
Shenanigans! The PKD title is "We'll Remember it for you Wholesale"
The Total Recall three boobs was referenced in TKO by Walker Smith and a bar on Cestus 3.
I would have a hard time comparing the fictional indiscriminate bombing of mars to other actual contexts.
It's not like martians invaded earth cities, did mass rapes and beheadings, slaughtered entire families, killed hundreds of people, and taken hundreds of hostages while engaging in hostilities in tunnels built below residential areas while firing thousands of rockets from these areas in an attempt to kill as many earther civilians as possible.
Or maybe it's just me and my weird imagination.
best reply of 2024! 🔥
For the algae rhythm! 🤖🤖 Oh and Shenanigans!
What's that bar you like, with all the crazy stuff?
Shenanigans!
This is an excellent episode, and the payoff for a lot of what we've been seeing up to this point. 🙂 If JMS had known that he'd get a 5th season, it might have been a much more drawn out... but he did not know that would be an option. I was glad to keep Ivanova, but sad to loose Marcus. The funny part is that I was not a big fan of his when he started. Think Keffer, Jr. But some episodes that followed let him grow on me, and by the time this episode came around, I was sad. 🙁
That being said, I did like the rest of the episode a lot... including the use of the telepaths. While not the most ethical choice, the amount of lives saved on both sides by being able to disable the loyalist ships rather than have to battle it out with each of them on the way to Earth would easily have been thousands if not millions. And, I think it said something for many of the loyalists that once Clark did turn on Earth, they woke up and tried to help.
Jessie (and maybe Emily as well) is likely to have trust issues for anyone in an Earth Force uniform... 😎
Shenanigans!
Shenanigans!! 😂
I call Shenanigans
Shenanigans - for the almighty algorithm!
52:42 ENS Sonya Gomez. Shenanigans.
Shenanigans ❤😂❤
Shenanigans!
I'm gonna say it:
HOW THE HELL DID LENNIER KNOW ABOUT THAT MACHINE???
Also, he really shoulda kept his trap shut about it with Marcus.
Late to the party as always but.... Shenanigans
Shenanigans 🤣
Shenanigans 😂
I am not sure the hippocratic oath is really a thing even now let alone in the future. From a quick Google it seems that most medical schools seem to either use a variation of the original, but it also seems that it is more an invite rather than a requirement as it no longer fits modern medicine.
Shenanigans
Marcus didn't leave the battle, the Minbari were held in reserve and not supposed to be part of the battle.
But they absolutely were involved by the end. Marcus would have known it was going to be an option. Also, the white stars are not technically part of the Minbari fleet.
G'kar kept the pink panties. 😎
Lotta discussion here about oxford commas and shit, but the REAL question (for the programmers in the room) is SPACES OR TABS?? SHENANIGANS
That's a Mike question.
Shenanigans.
I was the 42nd like. Finally.
How do you spell Shenanigans ?
A little behind on episodes. SHENANIGANS to ALL!
Re: Marcus
So what. He died 'cause he was stupid, but we knew that. All he had to do was ask for help. If 2 3 or 4 ppl would of been in on it nobody would have had to die.
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
This why he joined the Rangers. After his brother's death, plus don't forget the episode w/ his friend - homeless dude and the back sucker thing - and now he's faced w the loss of the love of his life. What else could he do? {Yeah I think he's dumb and didn't have to do what he did)
Re: Sparkle Vampires
Its one of two things they did well and calling werewolves lycans was cool. (I know.)
Re: War Crime
"It's not a war crime the 1st time" The Fat Electrician.
Re: Oath
In the US the oaths taken are to the Federal and state's constitution(s) never to the office or the office holder. In the US system there is no personal loyalty, only to principle and truth. "We hold these truths as self evident ..." and "...with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
Re: Telepaths
Its war! The 1st law of nature is; "I survive."
What option did they have? A doctor's 1st duty is to do no harm. If every reasonable action to help as considered and applied as available, what do you w/ a person you can't help?
Now if their death is inevitable and you can't help what now?
This IS the Trolley Problem stated differently, You have to kill someone which do you kill?
Re: Sheridan/ Garibaldi
Its Garibaldi! Plus he showed up to rescue Sheridan. Nothing Garibaldi did was dishonorable.
ISN: Interview he didn't lie, even if he spoke out of turn.
Reaction to Sheridan: He was his own man he is free to differ in his opinions and views
Sheridan's dad: Once a person heads down a path certain things must expected.
Setting up Sheridan: See above.
The thing about the trolley problem is, it's not as simple as "kill one to save x" and the way it's stated matters to most people's assessments of moral Vs immoral. It usually comes down to whether the one is collateral damage, or whether they are *used* (even if the person being asked isn't able to put it in so many words).
So it's ok to switch the trolley on the line and choose to save the 5 rather than the 1. It's not ok to murder a healthy person and harvest their organs to save 5 people. And I would argue that the use of the telepaths in this episode comes a lot closer to the second one than the first.
Shenanigans!
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Shenanigans!
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