30 // Maura Murray - Part 30
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- In this episode of the Missing Maura Murray podcast Lance and Tim returned to Lincoln, New Hampshire to meet with Witness A, Karen McNamara. Interviewing Karen is a friend to the online Maura Murray community - his name is Alex Clogston. Also joining in the discussion is Truth Seeker John Smith.
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It would be awesome if every time they asked her a question, they let her talk instead of constantly interupting.
Looks like Fred M. has been right all along: Maura was taken by a "local dirtbag".
And "local dirtbag" = driver of 001.
Very impressive witness, and a great episode, guys.
Your a sick ped
I don't trust anything he says, sorry.
Thank you so much for releasing this very important episode & information.!
OK so who was driving a SUV cop vehicle that day !!?? find out and case closed
Im new to knowing of this case. Sounds like such a creepy little corrupt town....I'd be afraid to even visit up there from tri-state area. Such a shame a young girl can't be safe even such a place, and needing help after her car crashed.
I have determined that we really need to know exactly what time Butch Atwood stopped and spoke with Maura and how long they spoke. I have a sinking feeling that Maura met with her demise exactly then or just after that. So either Butch was involved in Maura's disappearance or someone else who made contact with Maura after Butch Atwood left her and/or after Karen McNamara drove by and before Cecil Smith arrived on scene.
Butch yes indeed come on
She should get hypnotized for answers
man so strange its scary what couldve happened
Was JW ever interviewed by LE? If so, have the contents of that interview been shared? If not, why not? Interview information involving numerous others has been shared; why not a word from or about JW's actions that night? Did he admit or deny driving cruiser 001 that evening? What does "out of commission" mean? Was he sent home with the cruiser, or had something gone mechanically wrong with the car? In this case, little or no info has been released about one of the greatest sources of suspicion. That in itself is suspicious.
I absolutely agree
Will you guys be putting out any more videos or is this the last of the series? Can't help it I'm hooked.
Awesome report, guys. I just happened to watch the Dateline or 20/20 report on this 'disappearance' and I am very intrigued now, THEN I happened upon one of your vids and now I am hooked on your Channel.. You have some great podcasts...thanks so much for filling in the blanks for me!! I've also found your Website to be very informative! Keep up the great work. This thing was botched from the beginning.
Also, as far as the "thud' goes, (46:28) maybe it was the car hitting the guardrail that couldn't be seen under the snow bank??? Which caused the front end bumper damage?? I'm still trying to find some evidence pics from that night of Maura's car.. But...not finding many!!
Ok guys, thanks again and keep up the good work. Thanks so much. And you have a new sub. I hope we can all get to the bottom of this mystery, and give her family some closure.
I wonder if that cop car (the SUV driven by Jeff Williams) ran down Maura for some unknown reason, as there was no logical reason that Maura's Saturn should've spun 180 degrees on a dry road, despite navigating a sharp bend. Does anyone have a timeline for this 001 cruiser? Does the front have those pusher blocks like you see on other cop cars? So much covering up in this case.
Run down in the dark by the drunk Jeff Williams, whether intentional or not. He was NOT going to let that put him in prison. Hold a flame to his feet until he talks.
steve b: You still don't get it. She was on foot and he was the drunk driver. Odd you can't understand that.
that corner on that road seemed to bring back luck. And those people living around don't want to be implied. They must be tired of being solicited since that unfortunate accident leaving the Murray family in despair. Even today, I will guess that cell won't go through because of the geology of the White Mountains.
its ashame because this woman did absolutely tell the true and yet some people still bash her. She is a very geniune person and seems like everything she told was spot on. However again, the Police totally expalined all that she said in that Oxygen interview. So in my mind I wish we would move on from the police had anything to do with Maura disapperance. My question to John Smith and anyone who believes the Police were responsible is what do you think the police did that were reaponsible for her disaaperence? im curious. Tell me what you think someone from LE hurt and killed Maura?
23:30 is that a bullet hole next to the lock? lol!
Looks like something hit it, for sure.
This is so obvious THE COPS are in some way involved with her disappearance.
Here's a key. Obviously mm car was moved out of its original position when it came to a stop. whether the car starts or not, YOU WILL NEED THE KEY to get it in neutral unless you know a trick auto mechanics, tow truck drivers and possibly police officers know, but that requires getting under the car. Bottom line is MM got into another car of someone she is suppose to trust, like an officer with a marked SUV. If she was being forced into a car, neighbors would of heard her scream. Also, why would Butch Atwood not keep his eyes on the accident scene until the police arrived. It's what concerned people do. Butch and his wife moved from a community that had long been their home, and started all over in FL. Butch and his wife were possibly afraid of something or some people that they felt even the police couldn't protect them from.
how come they won't release the atm video???
It boggles my mind.. to this day. we will never see it.
Said this on another episode, but witness A saw 001, they state 001 was not in commission, but on the show last fall, Cecil Smith states he was driving oo1. So is there evidence he was in 001?
I believe she saw Unit001 on scene. I believe she feared repercussions. & I do believe there may be other plausible scenarios why LE wont admit they were. BOLO.
May I ask ~ if she was apprehensive to go public before to avoid possible backlash from LE, why isn't she worried now?
+MJ warren good question ...I'm wondering that also
Oh em geeee Jackieeee I am not. 2 diff IP's home & office I guess. where u been - we've jawed about this publicaly before. ya ~ you got me. not*
sorry~ my bad* just re-read my post. It was meant to sound whimsical but it sounds nasty :P wasnt intended. just sooooo odd how many peeps have asked that lately. Im not Anon folks - just 1 of meeeee unless someone else somehow is cookin' the books.
didnt mean to be snooty - did sound that way :( tone & inflection was missing :) ya I see it now. I post from 2 places - it does look messed up. both me!
I have actually looked into this whole 'Damages on the car situation' and it turns out , the way the front of these Saturn cars were designed were such that , the front would absorb most of the force (during an accident) there by changing its shape so that the person inside would be
protected from the impact.
So is the working theory here that the SUV was driven by Chief Williams who had been sent home earlier in the SUV for drinking and sliding off the road near the apartment complex? I like when ya'll discuss after the interview so we hear your interpretation.
unfortunately it shouldn't be a theory who was driving it .....if LE wanted us to know who was driving the SUV we would.....
I read somewhere Jeff Williams is currently working with children and youth at Mount Prospect Academy, Plymouth, NH. If I remember correctly, this school is run by Becket, which is run by Jay Wolter, attorney, and Jeff Caron, executive director. Other schools run by these two include Connecticut River Academy in Vermont and the Bennington school in Vermont. This guy is described in the podcast as being volatile and alcohol-abusing. How on this earth did he pass a background check to work with kids? Aren't these kids at Mount Prospect troubled? Is that the right place for a volatile dude?
+greatminds idk but I've been thinking lately ..if I was missing do you think maura would be looking for me??
Yes, absolutely she would look for you.
+greatminds I think so too..man this case got my head spinning ....
If butch seen something what after he called the police & they took over
The accident scene couldnt have seen anything before he called the cops. I think butch kidnapped her and had his prize possession maura
Get back on the MMM....NOT THESE OTHER CASES
You guys are kind of looking too much into this....she was abducted.
it doesn't end there. Where is she? Who took her? THat's what they're trying to get down to.
Has this become the John Smith Show? Can we get back to some other investigators such as Harting and Renner and look more at what happened in the days leading up to Maura's disappearance? That would be more productive than chasing down John Smith's ridiculous conspiracy theories about the cops.
Are you trying to persuade us to subscribe to the opportunistic dirtbag theory, as opposed to the 001 cruiser theory? These theories may in fact be one in the same. What say you, opportunistic dirtbag?
Both theories are crap. I am calling myself "Opportunistic Dirtbag" to mock John Smith who actually fits the nickname better than anyone.
Crap? Take a look at the stats, if you haven't already. 40% of police households suffer some form of domestic violence vs. 10% of non-police households. www.copblock.org/136506/married-cop-children-likely-suffer-abuse/
What do those stats have to do with anything? Maura wasn't a victim of domestic violence at the hands of a police officer. You seem to be adding 2 + 2 and getting 8 here.
I understand your thinking, OD, but the operative word here is "violence." Research supports nearly 80% of male domestic abusers simultaneously engage in other deviant behavior, as opposed to 60% of male non-abusers engaging in deviant behavior. In this case, that would mean 80% of the 40% of police households that suffer domestic violence, or roughly 32% of police households, contain a LE abuser who engages in other deviance. It's common knowledge that professions such as LE, may tend to attract individuals with a pre-disposition toward control, authority, rigidity, and accordingly, violence. Oftentimes, the pre-disposition and associated deviant behaviors cross environments, as the data support. This is not to say that all LEs have this tendency, because as I've said, LEs, like the rest of us, are human, and fortunately vary as to their personalities, attitudes, and approaches. Here's the research: www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/199713.pdf
If only she witness testimony were actually reliable. It’s one of the most unreliable forms of evidence/testimony available. 🤦🏼♂️
Awesome to finally here "witness a's" story in her own words. Been waiting for this! I think she did a great job clearing up some of the questions the doubters of her story may have had. Love the fact that people were saying she only recently interjected herself into this case when the first account of her story can be traced back to 2005 was it? Ha, screw you haters and doubters. She came across as totally credible to me. Great interview too, very thorough and to the point.
Honestly I totally believe Witness A. She has absolutely no reason to lie about this. She saw what she saw!!
I believe that she is genuine too but that doesn't mean that there is some grand police conspiracy. Her memory could be off or what she saw may have had nothing to do with Maura's disappearance.
Opp: Wake up, her account does NOT match the cops. The chief was drunk that day, a crime in itself.
Totally agree she is extremely credible
Witness A is the Tell to the mystery too me....cop abduction , thats how she vanish in the blink of an eye....or did Lavoie get the call and put it in his personal garage , because murray was in the trunk tasered uncouncious somehow, it was towed out like at 9pm...westman said there was alot of trunck activity, ..the trunk thing is a stretch but would explain her vanishing into thin air, and drunk cheif knew lavoie and told him put it in your garage..then went and got her at lovies
I believe the witnesses account. People try to find every excuse to discredit some witness testimony, especially if it's critical information related to a high profile case. I think what she saw and how she relayed the information from the beginning was legit.
"in retrospect, maybe I'd be missing, too" that made my hair stand on end.
+Pasic TP kind of my thoughts.
Tarik Pasic just so we are on the same page , according to you what transpired on that night?
same here! i literally had goosebumps. also, when the creepy music started right after that! :(
The FBI needs to go in and open up some files. Now I know why Mr. Murray wants the feds involved.
Wish granted.
The FBI got involved.
@@therrienmichael08 when? Is this a new thing, a reason to hope for closure?
@@saltpeter7429 2019 when the property was sold at 92 Wild Ammonousic Rd.
This was the best episode so far. An actual interview with an actual witness. And bringing the 'Witness A' story to full light. well done.
I believe butch seen everything that happened ...was told not to open his mouth by the drunk cop that took her ...wen other cops came on the seen they knew what was after happening and butch and cops went looking for them ..by then Maura was dead ...
Big cover up and poor fred knows it .
robyn jock - 100% fact!
This a lunatic theory that in no way aligns with the actual evidence we currently have
No wonder the cops wont release the details about the investigation to her dad, it's a cover up because a cop committed the crime. I never thought Atwood did anything,it seemed his story changed because he was coerced n probably threatened. This drunk cop caused the wreck, Maura probably gave him a piece of her mind or threatened to report him. Some of the alcohol was missing from the vehicle n he probably took it. He put her in his vehicle,did something to her n did away with the body. The whole dept knows he is an alcoholic n has protected him n kept him on the job. The cops have controlled the witnesses, the witness statements, the narrative, the investigation, the cover up and everything. How do we know the cop didnt move the car or manipulate the direction? It's obvious that the cops cant be trusted to investigate themselves so what happened to the state outside, unbiased agency to come in?. Unfortunately no wrong doing is gonna be admitted on behalf of williams n the police dept, so they r just gonna keep silencing witnesses, discredit or ignore their accounts or force them out of the area hoping it all goes away. This father is not going away. When will the FBI investigate this cop n this police dept? We may never get the true story or any answers or resolution. This isnt the 1st town cover up n wont be the last. I think we all can conclude the outcome here n just hope for some remains to allow her a proper burial. Prayers to the father n family.........shannon b
Do you think if a cop did commit the crime he’d go tell all his cop buddies or act like he don’t know , that’s a lot of people to keep quite all these years , plus only the officer involved would have something to lose , all I’m saying is there’s no way the whole department was involved in a giant cover up , cops are dirty and corrupt sure but if I cover for him I’m directly involved and there’s no guarantee butch or anyone else wouldn’t talk one day
@@corylee1103 I'm not saying a cop committed a crime n told the whole force. I'm saying it's guaranteed the whole dept knew he was an alcoholic and had protected that secret n any drunken related incidents they knew about from the higher up superiors so he wouldn't lose his job. There r lots of good ol boy towns where cops are well aware of each other's dirt. It may be your partner,somebody u were in the academy with n had long history with or even your training officer. They have a code similar to the military and if they know something it's not like they will run to internal affairs. You have cops who have affairs with coworkers or a coworkers spouse,have a drug problem ,take kick backs ,use informants for their benefit etc and others know because they r doing the same stuff. They don't want u telling their business,so they will keep your secrets. I don't know what u have seen, but my family is from a small town in Louisiana who still have weekly Klu Klux Klan meetings. While visiting relatives one year I witnessed with my own eyes 3 truckloads of Klansmen in their robes ,no mask at the local store going to buy beer for their meeting. In lots of these places a reputable family or the police dept runs the town n just about every body their is related n protected by them. This is what I meant about this case. I wasn't saying folks knew about crimes they could've been implicated in n chose to stay silent,but all the guilty participants had the same interest n it was in their best interest to keep certain things from getting to the light....there was a guy who raped n killed a lady, he was related to the sheriff and a judge,so of course no proof could be formulated to make him pay for his crime n no charges were ever filed, he had been accused of stuff like that more than once and got away... In places like this it's all about who you know,not what u can prove.........Shannon b.
I feel that she had the feeling to help. But, at the same time her gut feeling maybe was to get the hell outta there. That's crazy. Great episode.
I believe her. I've had the intuition to do something and had my mind try to explain to me why it wasn't logical. Then I end up talking myself out of what I was feeling. I hate that 😑 I want to listen and trust my gut regardless of how logical it is. I believe out gut feelings are smarter and more important that what we think is right. Our thoughts don't know the things our Guide does.
@@lorimiller4301our brains pick up on things even if we don't register it or perceive it like we usually would. It's how we've stayed alive as a species for so long.
As for a "Guide" I'm not sure what you're referring to, but if it's something Spiritual, then that's nonsense. It's our lizard brain, i.e. our limbic system, specifically our brain stem, cerebellum, and basal ganglia.
sounds like Maura may have been arrested by a drunken sadistic cop, or a sadistic civilian acting like a cop.
I don't belive thr 001 cop intended to hurt her. But I believe he accidentally hit her..I mean like literally hit her body with his suv and he scooped her up and what he did with her body...who knows..but I believe this was all an accident but totally an accident by a police officer.
Alea Marie Tino - Very possible indeed. Or he picked her io raped and murdered her. One of the two. SUV was seen driving by the accident 3 or 3 times. Which in my opinion he was looking to see if anyone witnessed him taking her. If he hit her with car, the SUV would have been damaged and blood would have been at accident. Neither of those have been proven to occur hence option 2 seems more probable!!
42:00 Talks about how Jeff Williams went off road for no apparent reason - roads were bone dry - and had to be towed in sedan 002. This was Jeff Williams, a known alcoholic, with anger issues. TALK ABOUT POLICE COVER UP!! This is very very important information!! This is what I have been saying from Day One of this case. This would go a long way to explain why this case has never been solved. When you can't trust the local police to do their job this is why everyone was led in circles on this case. Also, there have been three official police reports covering the same events of that night. That alone is highly suspicious. I think the NH state attorney's office should get involved and have a grand hearing with all the officers involved in this cover up to get to the bottom of what really happened the evening of Maura's disappearance.
and had to be towed in sedan 002...I don't understand. I think I know what you are saying looking at this several days later. Sedan 002 was not tpwed in. It was merely pulled onto the roadway undamaged and Cecil Smith then drove sedan 002 after delivering suv 001 for chief williams to drive away intoxicated.
34 Bunga Rd (Cecil's home) to 92 Wild Ammonousic Rd is 1.2 miles and Sgt. Cecil Smith was unfamiliar with the area !?
I definitely think the cop driving 001 may be responsible.....here is another one of my theories....he was drunk and did it on accident. They were probably going to pass each other when she was hit by him. He kept going (fled the scene) and then went back, hence why he passed witness A twice. Possibly after he fled the first time is when Butch drove up & said he would call the police and she said NO, I've already called AAA. When 001 comes back he grabs her and puts her in his SUV, gets in to leave and then witness A passes by, has a bad feeling, stops and then drives on. If 001 hit her then kept going, it is likely the neighbors wouldn't have seen him if he kept going
..that could have been the "thud" sound that was heard. They called the tow guy they did for whatever reason....maybe the cops trusted him to keep it quiet and not the other guy. It was towed to his personal garage to cover up any evidence to incriminate the police chief or whomever was driving 001....Another theory...maybe it was the tow truck driver driving the police SUV if it was indeed "out of commission" (which I doubt it really was but who knows) which would explain why the other guy wasn't called instead. He hit her, kept going, came back and grabbed her, took her to his home and possibly called his popo friend and told him what happened. He stuck the rag in the tailpipe really quick so when the cops showed up they would know that was her car and to call him for the tow. The tow truck guys personal residence needs to be searched like ASAP!!! Butch may have witnessed vehicle 001 grabbing her during him parking the bus and maybe was threatened.
Or...after he (whoever "he" was) struck her, and kept going, perhaps when he came back, he couldn't find her so he panicked He left again and went and got the red truck. Maybe it was him in the red truck, looking for Maura.
my god girl -Crrreeeepy but So possible 😕😮
Maybe that’s why Butch immediately moved to Florida and also possibly failed some polygraph questions.
Mowed down by the drunk police chief driving 001 and the body disappeared.
Wow, never thought of that. It makes so much sense. Find that 001 car.
My thoughts exactly
Good hunch - but unlikely. According to a credible witness it is likely that she was still seen about an hour after Butch talked to her - about 4-5 miles along the road eastwards from the crash side... at least a young girl that highly resembled Maura.
@@hans1066 that was r.f sighting. Doesn't mean much as he was the only one to see her. At least when Butch saw her do the westmans. People don't just disappear into thin air. She either got hit walking down the road after she left her car or someone picked her up/grabbed her and foul play was involved
@@hans1066 so did the westmans *
I was just wondering about the packed boxes in Maura's dorm room. I understand she had printed an email from Billy telling her that he had cheated on her and put it on top of the packed boxes. Can it be determined that the things packed in those boxes are possibly things Billy has given her? Maybe she was actually leaving Billy when she disappeared and that those boxes do not at all mean that she was going to commit suicide. Again just a thought.
They showed pictures recently and the form was not packed up and there were no boxes. That was such a big discrepancy that shoulda been cleared up right away. It's on one of there later shows doing a panel.
@@thomasbowe9956 wow.
This lady's story seems very real.at least she made a call.
this witness is grounded and solid. she works is an administrative position, I bet $10.00 she wears a watch even though she has clock on her cell phone. My brother does the same job he is always looking at his watch and day-planner.
what was that cop doing there? Occam's Razor
Butch Attwood knew all along. He saw it all happen and was too scared to come forth with answers. It was straight across from his house. So sad he could have solved the case.
Very possible. You think it was RF or JW?
@@lanayajordyn9950 JW.. And I almost wanna say Cecil was about to tell it all before he died last year.
she would have no motive to make this stuff up.
Don't know if this is related or not, but thought I'd mention it. My step mom had a car like Maura's in 2004-2005. She had a minor fender bender, and the whole front bumper fell off. It looked like the car had been in a major front end accident. The tow truck driver said Saturns are known to be like that. Poorly made, slapped together, and can't take a hit without falling apart. If Maura hit a tree or another vehicle, I'm guessing her car would be in much worse condition...
I think she may have hit a snow bank or (more likely) that damage was from another accident (like Petrit Vasi or another) & she was just ditching the car.
She hit a trailer hitch. Plain and simple.
John lordan of lorda n arts said the care are meant to give way into the accident to distribute the force of the car for safety reasons or something. I worded that had but basically he confirmed that even the most minor accident makes the car looked totaled. If she hit a tree or something that car would be much worse.
I’ve read that if the vehicle 001 had been out of commission for service it would have been at Lavoies garage, this is the same man who was called later to tow her car. Is it possible he took the car from his garage impersonating a police officer and took her before the called officer arrived? Also in his interview he said he was asleep on the couch and his wife woke him up saying he got a wrecker call. Why did he feel the need to say he was sleeping on the couch and why would he be sleeping at 745 at night?
The dude could have been tired maybe laying around watching tv , you think someone saying they was sleeping at 7:45 is incriminating lol
great minds,,,,,think your spot on,,,chief williams
service and maintenance on police cars/local government vehicles are public records. it would be easy to find out who drove vehicle.
Wow. But there seems something to this story with the police car. That is something odd....
Happy to hear her story with her own words. Great interview!
I wonder if Butch Atwood took her to the Beaver pond and told her that she could get service there,, cell phone service, and then did something to her from there, Butch supposedly went around the Beaver pond looking for her in his car later on he said
Where is internal affairs when u need them cops are soooo crooked!
So karma got her quickly she may have killed someone on a hit & run
And she met with the same fate
Wouldn't that be ironic?!!
There’s no evidence whatsoever that she hit Petrit Vasi, in fact there’s too many things that disprove her being able to have been the one that hit him.
in the dodgy email the lads got it did say solve that and you may solve Maura!!!!
Idk what happened to Maura. All these episodes. Was it the dad? Was it an opportunistic lunatic? Was it someone in the police? Idk. But I just saw Arm Chair's "rebuttal" and his sorry attempt to discredit witness A video. Wow. What's up with that dude? It seems very counterproductive to a very noble investigation. It seems you all know each other or something. The only thing about witness a's testimony that didn't make sense to me was her "intuition" part where she says she had a bad feeling while driving by the accident. That seemed weird. But everything else seemed very genuine and she came off as very credible. The dude who was with her seemed a tad bit attention seeking... but definitely not her. I love these Maura Murray podcasts. This interviewer did an AMAZING job. He kept it very professional. Keep these podcasts coming guys! This mystery has me totally engaged.
But how does 'witness ones' version or timeline correlate with the people watching from their windows/houses? How do their stories corroborate eachothers but possibly not 'witness ones' and wouldnt the versions of multiple witnesses either confirm or call into question the version/timeline of one?
Butch Atwood could witness the entire episode from his house, he looks to have a direct line of sight from his home.
Has anyone ever thought that the cop telling the local that there was a rag found in the tailpipe meant something up there? Like an old urban legend or an old case or something. Like in my town 3 girls just disappeared in the 90s so if 3 women went missing here, and a cop was talking to a old local, and said yeah And its 3 girls went missing AND their front porch light was broken, the connection would be made right away.
Clever thinking 🤔
This lady is very credible.
Credible for what she never seen maura we all know the 5/0 made it out their and found an abandon car
10 minutes later
I have followed this case for years. Awhile ago you can say I was a bit obsessed with this case. Lol. I know you all will prob laugh at me ,.but Can someone please explain what witness A saw and why it's a big deal. She said it passed her twice..... So I don't know the landscape. Yes I researched the roads and accident scene etc many times. Just please tell me what people are trying to say if she was passed by the same police car ( SUV ) twice. What's the significance of that? I'm ashamed of myself that I never understood this. Lol. Please be kind people.
Here ya go.... 52:30 it's at this point in the video where they explain the double pass 52:30
Good one guys I didn't realize that Brianna Maitland disappeared not far from where Maura did so that's weird and kind of in the same manner
They also disappeared a few mths after eachother sooo..
They also disappeared a few mths after eachother sooo..
Without commenting on the content, I would like to say that I appreciate the perseverance that I have seen with these and other video's. Difficult things cannot be done without perseverance, and with it, I believe this will be solved and the guilty brought to justice. Maura and her dad (parents), friends, and the world deserves at least that.
Is this podcast done or are you guys coming back soon?
Forensics on the vehicle marked 001 or is it too late?
It’s not weird at all to call or text your husband to give location updates when you live in a mountain town and drive home in the dark on winding mountain roads with long stretches of no cell service and potential black ice. I do this all the time because of where we live and the vast swaths of no service area we have to drive through. People can be so ignorant about different ways of life than their own.
All other accounts seem to clearly state that the victims vehicle could not be seen from Butch's residence, but oddly, Karen states otherwise.
Karen clearly states that the victims vehicle did not appear to have been in an accident to her but appeared to be parked on the wrong side of the road.
Then why on earth would she have felt compelled to offer assistance?
And if Karen truly felt the need to offer assistance, then why would she choose to drive past the said vehicle & only stop some distance away down the road outside the Butch residence?
Wud love Peter hyatt to do a statement analysis of butch Atwood s statement ...i have been listening to Peters rules and tips on statement analysis for a while now and when I heard butch speak about what he witnessed red flags all over it
Exactly this. Peter Hyatt needs to do a statement analysis for Atwood, Cecil Smith and if Williams has a recorded interview, his too.
So was the suv looked at for any kind of evidence? Even after all the time passed and it was sold?
maybe Im wrong.....but I have yet to hear what John smith and all the other people who think the cops were responsible. Please just tell me what you guys think happened? Im very curious
This might not mean anything but I found this kind of odd... didn’t she get caught driving intoxicated not long before she went missing and they actually drove her to her dads hotel room. I found it odd that they wouldn’t arrest her for that? Might be irrelevant but it’s odd!!
Has crossed my mind but it could be something as "innocent"as a male officer showing leniency towards an attractive woman, hence not charging her with DUI.
It would have been easy to follow up by identifying the officer involved in the first accident & then confirming their whereabouts on the night of the second accident.
I have two main contention points with her narrative. However, even if cleared then there is still an implication that is not easily overcome. Here are the contention points...
1) Let's say "Witness A" left at seven fifteen p.m (give or take a minute) and was passed by the SUV police vehicle. How dark was it already and how/why take notice of the SUV number the first time much less the second time? As a driver just going home, then it seems an unlikely observation to make especially when not making the same detailed observation about the other car that passed.
2) Why would either "Witness A" or the SUV have taken the routes that they took in the first place to get to Route 112? And why does she state that she "thinks" the road leading from her work place was "Swiftwater". That would seem to be a known road if you traveled it frequently as the route you normally took when going home (unless she worked for the hospital).
As I see it, there were only a few ways for the SUV to pass her the second time according to the route that she was taking (I'm thinking she followed the SUV for awhile). So the SUV would have to have been within a minute of the "Swiftwater" turn in order to pass her that quickly unless it was further down. If she was not at or on "Swiftwater" when passed then the SUV had to have been coming from the north. The PD is roughly three to four miles south on Rt. 10. If not on another call, then he already knew of the alleged accident and had been dispatched at least eleven minutes earlier than the alleged seven twenty-seven call. Based upon the route she claims to have taken, then regardless of her speed, the SUV either connected on "Sawyer" or "Cemetery Rd." (according to online maps). It appears that they were either staging the calls and accident, boxing somebody in (perhaps Maura herself) or reenacting an earlier accident provided that what she relates is accurate and true. It is alleged that her cell phone records do reflect a call made at seven fifty-two p.m.
I don't buy it. You see an accident with a police car parked nose to nose but don't see the officer or anyone from the car don't notice anything wrong with the car . So where was the officer and the person from the car ? An accident makes ppl tend to be nosy , most ppl look and see if they know the person or what they hit and the damage . Why didn't she go forward from day one saying the person from the car was missing or when she was told by family detective that the car she said she saw was out of commission but did see it and believed 100% it was the car she saw. What is the importance of 002 being pulled out but she saw 001? Y'all are all over the board . I'm not a fan of law enforcement most can kiss mine and I have yet to meet a nice one or one I would pee on if they were on fire but y'all are strait up claiming they murdered her which could open you all up to a law suit and make the police want to look less at this case. So because y'all heard rumors of so and so drinking and driving then it must be true , I mean ppl don't lie or make shit up. I have to stop watching now because you all are nothing but speculation and judge and jury and mostly by John the conspiracy guy who just wants to seem more important than what he is or ever will be. Y'all suck so bad !! Get some investigation skills instead of relying on hack jobs and you will go further !!!
this was a good episode guys
Have they ever mentioned the possibility that maybe someone hit Maura with their car, panicked, and covered it up?
so was butch Atwood ever in law enforcement?? I'm confused
+Pasic TP I would love to see the ATM footage...do you know anything on that?
Alex C - nice interview! Tim & Lance mention in the beginning of this podcast that KM was passed twice within a 90 second period. Does that mean KM was passed first on Goose Lane, just before Cemetery Road? Because if 001 went left on Cemetary Rd, its only 0.7 miles from Goose Ln/Cemetery to 112/French Pond Rd, so 001 could have traveled that in less than 2 minutes.
Thanks. That is where we estimate she was passed first, then the SUV probably took Cemetery Road. We re-enacted it in two cars traveling the approximate speeds and the times were within 90 seconds. Another point showing Karen's account to be entirely accurate.
@@SeverynNH wow. Amazing work. Doing the jobs of the various police agencies.
this is alot to read and watch in only 2 days, but read supposedly responding officer went radio silent for 2 hours. Whats the police protocol in that area for responding to an accident scene? I'm pretty sure where i live a police officer stays on the scene until the wrecker arrives to tow the vehicle off. Was this not the case here? Granted i dont have rural mountain areas by me but if 3 different houses were within view of the accident, doesnt sound like the boonies.
It is kind of the boonies, kind of like the creepy boonies, if you know what I mean. I get the impression it's not that people didn't actually see, it's that people did not speak of what they actually saw.
The dirty dangerous cop Bruce McKay drove SUV 001 and I think he is responsible for Maura Murray's Disappearance and murder
This sounds more like an interrogation than an interview...
She 😱 to GET away FROM DUI THEN ?????
What "Witness A" says may be entirely true and also entirely unrelated to what happened to Maura. Driving by on a dark night I'm amazed she was certain the number on the patrol car was 001 because I'm looking at the still photo for a long time, knowing it's important, purposely looking at the number, and it looks just as likely to be 007 as 001. Or perhaps another 00 with part of the last number missing to appear like a 1.
When they sell the SUV, they take off the decals, that's why they appear faded.
You're absolutely right when you say, "What "Witness A" says may be entirely true and also entirely unrelated to what happened to Maura". Believing her story does not mean that you have to believe a member of law enforcement did anything illegal.
Absolutely. I mean, what, if any, illegal activity could have taken place while a Police SUV was present for, at most, 12 minutes and in that time period, miraculously, it an Maura Murray both disappear? I mean, the imaginations these people have. I'll tell you. Get real.
Her life likely ended as a result of those 12 min. Legal, illegal, something happened
With headlights on and reflective numbers, how would you miss them???
Police there should sue this CHANNEL
Are they trying to suggest that the damage to maura's car came from a collision with 001 and the police have covered that accident up? Not sure I believe that. However smiths suicide is very suspicious.
I always believed the cops did it.
I'm somewhat new to this, however this is just a theory, and I wouldnt claim it holds any validity, but has anyone considered that if their are indeed bears in the area, that Maura was simply heading that way to get away from her legal troubles or finding out that Billy had cheated etc, and she was drinking and driving, got in the accident, got spooked after Butch offered to call 911, despite her telling him not to, she could have assumed he or someone would anyway, she already had her legal troubles and didnt want to add drunk driving to it, so she ran into the woods... she was a woodsy girl after all, with all her camping with her Dad, so maybe she thought she could handle it and hide out til it was safe, and unfortunately in doing this got attacked by a bear or bears and ultimately met her death that way? Just a thought...
Wouldnt the bus driver be heading to work did he go to the scene on foot or on was he in route on the bus why was he going home instead of already been at work was this a school week
The accident happened right in front of his house. I believe he was coming home in the bus, saw Maura and talked about calling triple A or the Cops then drove on to his property. Apparently he parked in a spot he had never parked before. It was odd that he backed up right to the house when him and his girlfriend that also drove a bus, usually parked right beside each other. He stayed in the bus doing paperwork and the girlfriend was the one who called 911. Everyone said Butchs' behavior was weird that night but who knows ? Maybe he just wanted to keep an eye on Maura ?
All is that proves I believe is that Maura went missing before 001 came onto the scene of the accident,I don't know why he passed her twice unless he was trying to see if he could see where Maura Murray was and when he didn't see her on sight of the accident maybe he was looking for her real quick I would definitely take a look at Butch Atwood or the theory that she went into the woods and committed suicide, they are the only 2 theorys that hold water
Pretty sure Maura is dead or alive!
when are you guys coming out with another video?
How is what karen saying credible she never seen maura we all know that they claimed to show up & found a abandon car.001 suv wasnt assigned to go to that scene whats her point sheesh
In previous video, it was stated Maura’s car was taken 2 mechanic’s home garage & that’s where Fred, Maura’s father, got the car from. Which is a very odd thing 2 do, taking a customer’s car home & put it n their garage. Was that same mechanic who was suppose 2 be working on the “decommissioned” police SVU 001 that witness A saw that evening @ the scene? If so, maybe that mechanic needs 2 be looked at. He could’ve taken that police SVU 4 a joyride come upon Maura & figures I have 2 pull over b/c they seen me w/ lights on passing by. So, he pulls over & maybe an altercation happens 4 some reason & he throws her body n the SVU & takes off. Just throwing stuff out there.
I thought the dirty dangerous cop Bruce Mackay was driving SUV 001
I hesitated writing this post, but I just can't shake this photo posted on JR's blog back in April 2016. Clearly, Maura's face is in the upper left hand corner. Yes, it could be a photoshop job, but there is something real and raw about it. Her face (I am 100% sure it is her face as per the features) looks injured and possibly in a state of early decomp.; her mouth looks as if it were punched and her lip looks split; her expression looks frozen in death or in shock; the tip of her nose looks battered or frostbitten. If this photo was tampered with, I don't recall ever seeing a base photo of MM with her face in this position, or from this spatial perspective. Here's the link: goo.gl/txJvg2
can you send another link to the picture?? This is just bringing me to google images
greatminds I went through JR'S blog, going back to last April, and could find no photo that even remotely shows what you described.
You are correct; I looked too, and it's no longer available. Also, I've never heard these guys bring it up. I don't know what that means; it could mean nothing, or, it could mean it's been sealed as evidence. It was creepy. Try this link: drive.google.com/file/d/0B1vgRCIeRGZ7ZWNnLW5NMW0yU1k/view?usp=sharing
Not it.
Wonder why this has never been mentioned?
I do not like John Smith
51:30 The road conditions may have been "dry" but Maura had been drinking. A driver with a buzz or more taking that corner in the darkness at who knows what rate of speed may have spun out of control. We know Maura had been drinking and driving less than 24 hours earlier when she crashed her father's car on a much easier turn.
We also don't know that an opportunistic dirtbag happened upon her at the same time of her accident either but many are willing to accept that proposition which is very highly unlikely.
+opportunistic dirtbag You should know. With a name on that, makes me think you did it.
Maisie Dotes
We know Maura stopped at a liquor store at the start of her drive and bought $40 of alcohol. We know police found an open bottle of red wine and liquor in the soda that was in the driver's cup holder. We know that less than 24 hours earlier Maura had been drinking at a party and when she drove away she crashed her father's new car. You can deduce a logical conclusion based on evidence.
It's interesting that witness A witnessed my car crash scene as well.
Do tell.
I think she went faster than 40 miles a hour. I say between 45-50 because she known to have a heavy foot . Speeding tickets plus wrecks.Plus, she knows that rode , she probably could drive it blind folded .
Source?
also none of the neighbors reported seeing blue lights that night from the SUV!!??come on now........ridiculous
Riding around drunk, 001 not supposed to be out, comes around the corner and just hit a woman, why would he put his blues on??? his car was nose to nose with hers because he hit her. He had to hide it so he came up nose to nose with her where he could drag her into the car, take her body and dispose of it. My theory.
You could be right. I have a similar theory: Maybe Cop 001 came upon the scene, saw the alcohol in and around the crashed car, then offered to not arrest Maura if she performed oral sex on him or some such thing. Maura refused, and then he became worried she'd file a complaint on him, so he drove her deep into the woods where he, er, silenced her. His porcine buddies, predictably, went into coverup mode.
+ReligiousZombie that's a very good possibility
I was thinking that. Maybe they weren't near the windows of their house at that time but...I thought the same. If numerous people called 911 within a few minutes, it's a little funky but not impossible I suppose since apparently not many houses/cars were around.
Interesting that the number of views on RUclips of this series has declined coinciding with John Truth Seeker Smith's numerous appearances. The majority of the audience seems to have similar concerns about Smith's credibility which is somewhat heartening to see. Perhaps it is time for Lance and Tim to move away from Mr. Smith.
Opportunistic Dirtbag - interesting how much of a coward bitch you are! Talking your informant speech!!