BHVR Just Killed The Fog Whisperer Program...
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- Опубликовано: 20 авг 2024
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In this Dead By Daylight video we take a look at BHVR's "new" consultant program and how the devs just publicly shamed the Fog Whisperer program so hard that I don't see any way to recover. Featuring SpookyLoopz
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I've been told that this "Consultant System" was first created before Legion released just to give you an idea of how old it is.
Key words "before legion"
I think old Legion proves they didn't listen.
@@WastingsometimehereAnd even if they did/didn't, remember we had chess merchant for a while too
i think they did a pretty good job so far
It is not that I KNOW this, but I kinda know how things used to work, and I can easily imagine that the team is very close with their moderators and that they have picked p them to be in this consultant program. You know ... the people who constantly bann users that say mean things about the game or the developers. Seems like a solid choice if you want to work with people who have proven a hundred times that they would never criticize them or go out in public and talk about what is going on. Plus, they DON'T have followers. The last thing you want as a chady corpo who also likes to mess up stuff on a regular basis is to bring in people with a large follower base where all that is between them and destroying your company single-handedly is a signed NDA. This is most likely why fog whisperers get ignored for a position like that. The Fog whisperers should be happy not to be considered for this program. What BHVR say with this move is that they do not trust them, because they actually stand for the community.
I never expected the Fog Whispers to be anything else than marketing slaves.
At least now it's clear for everyone.
Thinking about how many games do this is just ridiculous. Content creators feel like shills that can't speak their mind due to fear of receiving the boot. Glorified meat riders and it's pathetic.
I honestly think the Fog Whisperers program is so harmless that both parties are profiting from. Yes, BHVR can advertise their game but also the Fog Whisperers get exposure from the marketing when their clips are being used. Being a Fog Whisperer and have your name show up in a compilation or in a anniversary stream *is* extremely fair. Also, you can advertise your stream a bit more effectively by simply being a Fog Whisperer.
Marketing Slave??
I wouldn't say "marketing slave" because, as far as I know, Fog Whisperers were never forced to advertise anything for the game, and they were never prevented from speaking their minds about the game, good or bad. They're literally just recognized as representing the DbD community, and occasionally they get some Auric Cells from Behaviour.
@@daric_ That's exactly it. I'm still surprised that people still think so diverse and willfullly negative about what Fog Whisperers are. Even BHVR, as far as I remember, has been transparent about this. Fog Whisperers are streamers and their community that BHVR wants as representation of the playerbase in DBD.
Tbh, the Fog Whisperer program always felt like a glorified gamer-tag than something that the devs at BHVR ever took seriously.
I started to feel this way after I read somewhere (I dont rmember where) that Otz went to BHVR with a list (think like a google doc or something) of things that would improve them game, only for someone at BHVR to say "well have a look, but can't garunyee we'll implement these changes." So yeah, I'm sceptical if this "new" program will work. Why not merge the two programs?
I am also worried that BHVR will use the new program to hide behind as shields.
Read it on Reddit?
I think that's where I heard about it...
@@KnivesInMyHeart22 Might have been reddit, it might have even been in a Discord, it was like two years ago now. But either way, it just goes to show that BHVR doesn't care, and if some do they are a minority voice when it comes to decision making for the direction/future of DbD.
@@BrightWulph Valid statements.
good Otz has some PRETTY BAD hot takes. I will never understand why anyone listens to him. For example he said STBFL was a super unhealthy perk,and then the perk got nerfed for no reason. It was quite literally one of the only perks to truly be able to help the low tier killers in chases. People need to stop putting streamers opinions on such a pedestal. I'm glad he's not on the consultant team as I feel those hot takes would be a detriment to the game.
did bhvr make fog whisperers sign something to enter the program? because having particular persons giving suggestions can be messy from a legal pov me thinks. if you write to brands making suggestions, they usually will respond with some variation of "we are not taking outsider advice, thanks" and that's is because if something does get implemented, you could sue because it's your effort or "intelectual property" or whatever. so i would be surprised if bhvr openly said the fog whisperers are intended to give feedback. i think in the end it was a bit of a symbiotic relationship where the content creators feel a little more special and validated and close to the product (which may bring more views) and bhvr has people promoting their game out there.
otz has benefited from being a fog whisperer as he has been the main face of quite a bit of dbd events, so it's not like he was being used by bhvr without reward.
That's what i always said. Fog Whisperers are just marketing tools, nothing more. Not to throw shade on the lovely people that were Fog Whisperers, but yeah. Really strange move. Why make a new thing when you could just listen to the people you already had? Behaviour come on, get on the ball.
It's not a new thing
Prob cuz fog whisperer was more of a content creator thing and not specifically a system to improve the game. This one feels more hopeful, but obviously we haven't seen the effect yet so there's no telling how good it will actually be
@@banan6216 you're giving them too much credit, fog whisperer are factually useless outside of free marketing for the game
there’s cosplayers, artists and more in the Fog Whisperers program that love the game but probably don’t play it as much as a consultant does.
so why would you take advice from a casual?
@@DamienCloud nah that's exactly the point. they are just sponsored content creators, nothing wrong with that. they stream/make videos to a large audience, bhvr gives them codes and stuff in return to give to their audience and attract people. why this is a surprise to anyone is beyond me. all of that falls in line with the literal description of the program.
I'm still surprised by what people think Fog Whisperers are, or that BHVR "betrayed" them by not including them in their new program, which they didn't. Fog Whisperers have never been selected based on their skill at the game, their total hours played, or their knowledge of DBD. This has never been the case. Fog Whisperers have always been selected streamers chosen by BHVR to represent the community (and for marketing), nothing more. Separating the consultant program from the Fog Whisperers program was the right decision, in my opinion. Also, the Fog Whisperers program will continue the way it was intended.
EDIT: One extra note: I did not mean to sound like I'm degrading Fog Whisperers or the program itself. I think the Fog Whisperer program is a harmless deal between streamers and BHVR with a friendly handshake in the end. BHVR can promote their game, and in exchange, the streamers get exposure, which is nothing but fair. Obviously, there are Fog Whisperers who would fit perfectly into the Player Consultant Program; however, I can understand BHVR's decision to have different/adjusted criteria to fit into the new program. Saying that BHVR is being unfair or betrayed the Fog Whisperers is just not true.
I honestly thought everyone knew that
same i genuinely thought everyone knew this lol
they are basically the rich kids, where the father doesnt give a crap about them.
@@skinless333x2 Yes, you‘re right and I remember that. However, I sincerely doubt that these people have been flown to BHVR to give the devs feedback so they can change content before it did went live. I _could_ be wrong, but I‘m highly convinced that this was nothing but an exclusive preview of what‘s coming to the game.
I completely agree. The only people that are whining about this are the Fog Whisperers that thought of themselves as something more than they are.
Whether or not the consultants are being listened to by the dev team is irrelevant. Because most of the complaints are that the fog whisperers feel less important than they should be. Before the program was announced publicly, there weren't people dropping out of the fog whisperer program based on their input not being listened to. It was only after they found out they're not in the "inner circle of consultants". Now it's a problem to them.
To be fair, they’ve been saying that about the fog whisper program for literally years. They are just billboards for the game to whore it out during streams. They never had any real input into the game. To pretend like this is a surprise all of a sudden is weird.
Seriously, I've only been playing for a year and it was obvious from the beginning. (Though I also have a lot of experience in the table top gaming scene as and with volunteer company agents.) It was in my second release stream that I noticed that Otz is never part of the release streams and he's their biggest creator, which was weird, but he's also frequently vocal with his criticisms so it made sense. That made it really obvious it was never about improving the game, they just get wheeled out to show off the new chapter.
@@BouncingTribbles Otzdarva is the stream that plays on the Steam page when a new DLC releases. They aren't going to fly someone from spain to canada to be part of their official streams.
same. don't understand the reaction from spookyloops or choy. pretty obvious fog whisperers are just sponsored content creators. not that deep.
I agree, however I disagree why would they not simply integrate it with their existing program, the fog whispers in the first place?
@@HoLeeSheet117 imagine you own a company. You introduce your new research and development team to help fix or create new products. You wouldn’t ask the marketing team if they’d like to join. It’s a completely different ball game. The marketing team may know what people like and can help voice their opinions, but when it comes down to actual numbers, balance, programming, etc; even though you’d like to pretend they would know what they were talking about, they wouldn’t. Not enough to get paid for it at least.
So basically a paid cool kids club.
That’s how I always perceived it, especially when they plastered the logo on their screen like, ‘see? see?”
I'm amazed the Fog whisperers had thought they had the ability to critique when all Fog whisperers are the much more tame creators lol
I could name 2 that actually mattered but opinions aren’t facts so 🤷♂️
Otz: "I have finally been set free.... BUNCH OF DUMMYS"
Knowing BHVR, the consultants will be there to be paid Yes-men. An echochamber, as you put it.
does bhvr honestly have a reputation of doing that. like an echo chamber type mentality of any kind or are we just having bad faith here
even considering the dowsey situation, that is completely different from making the consultants out to be yes man, as you put it.
@@namjeff1419 I would imagine this is something they would do, yes.
Ages ago it took a while for us to get many buffs for killers when they were at their absolute weakest, flashlights were awful too. There was an absolutely monumental time where Mathieu Cote, the Game Director, went against a Korean Team where he played as the hag... And got repeatedly stunned, BM'd, got no kills, and the game ended with them basically saying "Baby killer" at the end. After that match, we received some VERY significant updates shortly after to hag, to flashlights and their blinding, and some other small net positives for other killers.
Additionally, the community had been making comments for a while demanding Colorblind features for those that had the disability in question, they didn't pay it much mind for about a year or so of those comments. Eventually Ethan Larson, who goes by Almo and is I believe their lead Game Dev, had other people in his twitch asking him about colorblind mode and then got very irritable, making a reply you can still find online where he considered it "boring" that people were "blabbing" about it. This made people VERY upset, enough that the next day we got an official statement that colorblind mode was coming and I believe we had it within the next week? Hard for me to get a date on it but it was within a short time frame.
Later, Almo put out an apology for what he said but it was obviously damage control for such a terrible statement and we haven't seen nearly as much of him since then or so. Additionally, moderators and officers on any forum that is Dead by Daylight related have had knee jerk reactions if you bring that situation up, we're talking suspension within an hour or so of referring to these devs even if nothing harmful was said and just speaking of the same situation.
There's many occurrences like this sprinkled around if you look, but those two were exceptionally notable. So yes, they are VERY likely going to echochamber themselves, it would be a very BHVR thing of them to do. They pretty much already have an echochamber since they state their terrible balance decisions are based on their obscure "statistics" all the time.
I think Behaviour doesn't really know what to do nowadays, they have lost a lot of their touch in the community, patch notes and data to see what needs buffing and nerfing, just look at the twins and the Perk meta. To me it just feels like behaviour is just once the dollar dollar bill y'all, if you don't believe me just look how many skins they are pumping out.
The game is an absolute mess right now. MMR and balance are completely nonexistent. Obnoxious and upsetting playstyles are the norm with perpetual streams of negative discourse among both "sides" of the player base. Constant buffing and nerfing leading to frustration. Constant server disconnections leading to unearned play bans. Arbitrary moderation on the forums and hand-washing silence for those who lose their accounts due to EAC errors. Overwhelming FOMO / paid cosmetic practices. Self-righteous virtue signaling from everyone involved with the company. It just goes on and on.
DBD used to be a fun game a couple of years ago, it's been going downhill fast. The player base simply has enough turnover to make everybody think that everyone's a longterm fan and no one is walking away.
I mean the devs will never listen to experienced players. They will rather boot up some statistics or listen to a 500h player on twitter than to talk with people that truly have game knowledge. Sad to say but dbd is getting more stale and stale, needed changes take way too long and you dont get any feedback as an individual player.
They have always catered to the casual over people that actually know what they’re doing. But then again.. that’s liberal government and bureaucracy for you
@@darthsilversith667 wtf does the government have to do with DbD?!?
@@usingytformusic3366 He is comparing the method the devs use to balance the game with how modern governmental structures make decisions. Both of which exclusively take input from misleading/incorrect statistics and/or people who have no clue what they're talking about.
Its wild that 500 hrs is casual, but genuinely they want to keep their newer players longer because the older people keep staying even after unfun changes. I am getting close to 3k hrs myself and im still not considered anything more than amateur. The devs honestly need to split the game into casual and ranked like a lot of other games. The competitive gamers want and need a clean gaming experience focused on skill and the casuals need a game based more around fun. Theyve been trying to split it down the middle causing both sides to feel heavy fatigue. Most comp game modes limit maps able to play as well as perks. They could implement a season rulesets so that the comp side of the game stays interesting
@@xraze6906 Correct! Gold star ⭐️ ❤️
Am i the only person who always thought Fog Whisperers were presented as ambassadors for the game. People who the company can recommend people to watch.
you’re not the only one because that’s what they are and no one is saying otherwise other than the entitled content creators that were never chosen for it
It's hilarious tho. I almost forgot that fog whisperers were a thing. When was that title relevant ever in the last couple of years?
I guess was relevant the frist year xD
I never got the impression that Fog Whispers consult with the devs. I always saw them as a positive members of the DBD community.
this!
There was a point in time, i dont remember when exactly, but it has been within the 3 years of me playing this game now, probably year 1, where i first learned about the "fog whisperer" programm. I watched the first fiew videos of some fog whisperers and their opinions on some topic surrounding the MMR system, then looked at the discussion boards on the main page and the steam discussion boards and found a surprising amount of agreement within the whole DBD community.
BHVR hasnt lost a single word, not some statement not even on twitter over it. They just let the discussion die out in silence. Thats where i knew the fog whisperer programm doesnt do anything at all.
EDIT: Also the finisher mori system, remember that one? It was the first ever topic where killers AND survivors agreed on, the whole fucking community. We dont want it, its nonesense. BHVR still wants to do another attempt at it. Same for huntress, litteraly noone complained, no killers, no survivors, huntress was fun. BHVR buffs her out of the blue. BHVR does whatever the hell they want, they dont care about feedback.
I mean most if not all fog whispers were streamers, it would make sense that they promoted the game
As soon as they went public with that, i thought "Oh, meatshields."
I remember hearing of a private discord of select players who would do testing like this as far back as The Pig. No idea if this was the same group or if they eventually became the Consultant program, but this is something BHVR has done for a very long time. But as far as I ever saw, the Fog Whisperer program was never intended to be part of a feedback system. Just players who wanted to help support the game while making content.
that discord died after devs stopped replying to the content creators nearly 6 years ago according to Scott Jund
From how bhvr behave( no pun intended) they are the kind of company that like to be surrounded by "yes men". Fog whisperers always feel like they're restricted from fully criticising bad decisions and changes but they would still say some negative stuff which i can imagine would get under their skin. So what better way to get past that than hire "consultants" who say how great everything is....
This means there were paid consultants putting out content that would influence the community, but without the community knowing they worked for them.
Think of it like this: an influencer cannot pitch a sponsorship deal to their community without making it clear they get paid for you buying said item.
Why is this any better? The community was listening to people they didn't know were paid employees so may not be as truthful.
I really don't mean to sound cold but the fog whisperers finally realize they're nothing more than free advertising is absolutely funny. It's ironic how it took this kind of scummy tactic for them to realize that I mean you get blood points and early codes to DLCs before anyone else as an incentive. No offense to all the people in the program but the fact you guys didn't realize this sooner is extremely naive.
what fog whisperers thought they had input until now?
@@theopendoorevseveral. Hidro made a whole video about his delulu take on what his position as a Fog Whisperer was and why he quit
@@riverrosenberg3776 didn’t that happen a month ago
Are consultants supouse to be the BHVR's meatshield so that when some controversial changes hit the live version of the game only the consultants will get flamed instead the devs?
It’s very possible
CoconutRTS had so say like 20 times on stream to himself he's not gonna make a video on it, I feel like he's livid
Coconut isn't a FW though.
@@lilyflower5895 That doesn't prevent him from being upset
@@joeshmoe735 Why would he be upset though? I don't get it. Can you explain?
@@lilyflower5895 he's been a long standing member of the community and in a way he appreciated the fog whisperer program for what it was, a transparent communication between reps of the community and the devs. This reveal kinda showed that they were doing stuff behind the communities back when they keep saying they aim to be transparent more.
@@joeshmoe735 Oh I see. I missed the stream where he discussed this and couldn't understand him being upset. Thanks for explaining 🙂.
Truth be told, "The Fog Whisperers" were useless from the beginning. It was just a title to be given to the top-heads, in order to appear transparent. If it means one program should die, so the much better one - a literal job akin to QA - could live, I'd say, then let it be.
We'll see, publicly naming a department doesnt mean there will be. Also, to the fog whisperers that didnt know that this was just pr, it's about time
@@Dabrownman1812 What did they think of themselves if not "PR"? The fog whisperers use the title to signal boost themselves and their platform. BHVR uses them to signal boost their game. It's a two way street. They're now upset that they aren't as important as they think they should be
@@ICee712 idk, if they missed that point that's on them lol
The consultation program at this announced one is afaik is the third iteration of this program.
I was apart of the original program or at least a proto version of it. Right before the games launch. I think Scott and scorpion were apart of the same program but I think he's talked about it too on his twitch or something. Dowsey must've left it pretty early cause I don't recall ever seeing him it it. Paulie and I think for a short while Tru3 was in it too. 😂
It wasn't paid nor did they give any cosmetics like the current one. But they did give people some cells after the program was retired.
It wasn't like super in depth or if they showed us a ton of stuff at least back then as it was ran by a skeleton crew.
The consultants, basically don't really have any real final say, it still comes down to the product manager and game designer and that's decided internally. I know that when Freddy & Billy got his first rework it was largely negatively received internally by the consultants. Even among the bhvr staff there was a divide, so Idk how it still made it thru.
You could say or explain to them why x is bad but it's still up to the people internally on passing those changes or not.
I was gratetful to have been apart of the people that they did take feedback to when they first reworked the plague because another streamer pointed out that I was the only one playing her at the time on the leader board. 😂
Of course every lead game designer who's been the lead also have a version of this program inside their own private discords. Where people answer questions and leave suggestions, like McLean and Almo. These people are personal people that the devs sometimes take suggestions or at least read from from time to time.
I honestly don't see how they would be any different than the other two iteration of the program. Because some people inside the program was still kinda let's just say... Not very good at the game or they only want it to tailor to their small niche instead of the bigger general player base.
Laughable any fog whisper thought they were more than just marketing tools. No supirse this other group has been around and not listened to.
It's easy to say that now. Most of these guys became fog whisperers years and years ago when the game was pretty new.
I don't understand how this "kills" the fog whisperer program? The FW have always been known to just be streamers bhvr likes that they think will be good pr for the game. The end.
The programs have nothing to do with each other and it just sounds like SpookyLoopz is throwing a tantrum becasue he either a) wanted the FW program to be something it's not and/or b) wanted to be part of the consultant crew and since they didn't let him in he's packing up his toys and going home.
You also seem to not quite understand what a consultant is. They give advice. The end. It's not some kind of grand conspiracy where bhvr will now blame them for everything and bhvr don't have to take any of their advice.
This changes absolutely nothing about the Fog Whisperers.
I agree with you.
Im sorry Fog Whispers were NEVER consultants. It was never assumed they would be "consultants" Its pretty fucking arrogant to think any of that was ever implied. FW's are brand ambassadors, and by they way I remember when Dowsey quit.. its because he shit on the game in public and they took shiny shirt away for doing it. Consultants are much closer to a market focus group, Like, "hey we got this new microwave sandwhich were producing , come on in for an afternoon for some free food and we'll throw in $50." ya'll need to stop acting so entitled.
Right! Like I'm sure the consultants are the ones who just playtest before the ptb comes out. Then we as a community tries it out and give our feedback. We all play a part in how the devs approach the new content.
agree. Such arrogance and entitlement. They're mad because there are other people that bhvr brought on to lend input for whatever reason.
Like in a corporate company.. an office worker could climb up from their current position to even a higher position..Otz should be a consultant as he has way more knowledge in this game..
Okay, but logically you absolutely don't want fog whisperers to BE that consultation team. Because most of y'all don't know how to act. Look at how people hand otz grief for literally every change even when he's gone on record for disagreeing with said changes.
Idk why they made the consultation program public knowledge, but fog whisperers have always blatantly been a marketing flex. Nothing more. If anyone ever gave them any more value than that, that's on the community. Js.
The guidelines about being a Fog Whisperer are very clear and it’s a bit weird to be angry you’re not a paid consultant. There aren’t many fog whisperers who could be trusted to be paid consultants and have enough breadth of knowledge. Some fog whisperers don’t even play an equal amount of both roles. Fog whisperers are just ambassadors for the game who can drive the community and get a few perks for their time and effort. And nobody has to play DBD anyway. It probably went public because people kept moaning that BHVR don’t listen to people like Hens and OhTofu, when they clearly do.
BHVR doesn’t listen to their players 😂. We have killers like twins, skull merchant, knight, and artist in the game and you think BHVR listens to the inputs of players like Hens? Get your mind outta the gutter man 😂
@@markscherer3881 They clearly listen. They’re literally in a consultancy position. Doesn’t mean they have to agree or do what they say, or that certain things go through them about major changes like new killers.
Would feel like a spit in the face becoming a FW then telling BHVR your opinion on balancing only for them (without your knowledge) to announce the "Consultant" program. They did it for transparency except it would make FW look like sellouts without a chance to for them to back out before the announcement to avoid the bad association. Would feel like the loyalty was rewarded by you being "used" because of the guidelines FW have to follow (which is basically being a good "PR" machine)
tru3's been saying this for years and no-one listened that its just a yes man simulator , now they are making people like hens in the CC program who if the devs actually listen to survivor main content creators that essentially bully baby killers for content it'll destroy the game more than it already is
Couple of critiques, don’t take this as a defense of Behavior at all, just food for thought so we can assess accurately and as a community, even if consultants, fog whisperers, and devs don’t make wise choices, we can at least keep a level head and lobby accurate and organized complaints that hit home.
1. Saying the program has been around for a long time and has been ineffective is something to take into account, but not something to completely discount it. They’re allowed to do a relaunch which is what this seems to be since they’re allowing the community to focus on it, and with people like Hens in the program, and recent patch notes with Vecna looking really good, we are hopefully going in a good direction.
2. Good players who have been around a long time don’t always mean that they’re good at balancing the game. It’s very difficult to balance a game, and not everyone is suited to it. There are players who are in the Fog Whisperer program who lean too far in one role or the other and might not be suited for genuine consulting. Thats absolutely nothing against the creators that are pillars in the community, but just being that doesn’t mean you’re the best suited for consulting.
3. People who consult don’t have the final say, that can give critiques, suggestions, etc. but that’s what it is, suggestions. Consultants might give great advice, they might give horrible advice. As frustrating as it can be, it’s the devs privilege to listen to advice, and weigh it, maybe implement part, all, or none of it.
This absolutely is not a defense of Behavior, they could fumble this horribly, but we should do our best to be level headed and not be emotional about things that they announce so we can analyze them for what they are until it’s proved.
I don't know how this is a shock to anyone. I recall a few years ago even Mandy said on the forums that Fog Whisperers don't get access or insight to anything that is going on behind the scenes than the general public.
On another note. I was in a Twitch chat once and a Fog Whisper was in too. They were saying something about the game that was just wrong. I corrected them but the streamer just said to me "I think I'm going to believe a Fog Whisperer over a random" Showed me then that some don't even know much about the game they are supposed to be promoting.
Huzzah happy Monday 🤠💕 thank you for starting my day off with a balanced cringe breakfast greatly appreciated.
I honestly got very angry when bhvr removed Hybrid Pandas fog whisper status as he didn't renew his contract on time due to his father passing away.Really shows you how much they care about them huh?!
Panda still very muchly wants to be be a fog whisperer but they won't let him back in the porgram.
Really sucks to hear him talk about it because he was so proud of being the first 10 and being a fw.
Definitely should have held this info for after the anniversary.
This is what happens when you try to feel special…now you just embarrassed…
I always thought that it would be quite ridiculous if BHVR valued the opinions of Fog Whisperers over the opinions of the rest of their community. That wouldn't be quite fair. So I am really not sure how this announcement killed the Fog Whisperer program. I also generally like Spooky Loopz, but him leaving the program over this is also quite the overreaction if you ask me.
Also, there already have been official statements that Consultants aren't to blame for certain balance changes, because in the end the devs have the last say.
one hundred bucks on the table says that these individuals that participate in this "consulting crew" are friends and close people from the dev team that are biased towards a side (probably survivor side, like we see with the community managers) and try to push their shit ideas
So far the confirmed members have been more killer mains….
you do know pros play both sides equally to learn the game right? they know how both sides struggle and which points should be balanced to make it a fair and fun experience rather than a long and boring one. just be quiet if you gonna say nonsense.
fog whisperers have always been CC's that BHVR liked
Something to consider - if FWs were allowed into the program, and it was publicly made available that they are in said program...wouldn't that just paint a very large bullseye on them should a unfavorable balance change go through?
Can you imagine the amount of vitriol and negativity the FWs would face should a widely unpopular change came into the game? They'd be the first one to be blamed - even if they had absolutely zero input into said change. Didn't Otz go through something similar even though he has zero input on the game?
Ive always known the fog whisperer program was always a subtle way for bhvr to control what the top streamers if this game say, not to actually benefit the streamer but the image of the game. They just used the tactic of making them feel like they had gained some power from their popularity.
☝🏻 this lady gets it
As I listened to this, I imagined myself as a consultant... And I was addressing the issue of Michael's tombstone add-ons... In order to drop those, he'd need a base kit buff... So... Hear me out...
Allow him to switch between evil within tiers 1 and 2 at will. He stalks to get tier within 3 only hmmm?
Fogwhisperes were never anything like a consultant or support. It was always more of a ambassador type of deal and nothing else.
If anyone honestly thought that fogwhisperes were more than just a friendly face for the game they were either new or really dumb.
I thought that was obvious from the start. 😂 So it gives off a very entitled energy people getting mad cause they're not chosen to join them. It's not like Bhvr even listen to the people 90% of the time.
They still make choices based on what they want internally. It doesn't give you any power or advantage by being in it. 😂
@MistarZtv I mean they do listen to the community when it comes to ptb changes etc. The consultant program is definitely used more pre ptb when they are making new content to prepare for the ptb.
Then the community gets to give their feedback when ptb begins.
That comment from dowsey proves what i have been saying for years now bhvr has a ego problem, they are too big for their britches and they simply refuse to listen to people, its the same reason why they still are going through with the finisher mori system despite the entire community tell them not ot do it years ago, BHVR eat some humble pie and for once FOR ONCE listen to your community when they say we don't want this
the "finisher mori" is NOT the one from the ptb they had, all this will do is make the yellow mori offering basekit, there's no instant win for the killer when all 4 survivors are downed, no unbreakable basekit, all it does is that the killer now has the option to mori the last remaining survivor, the only complaint people have about this is, is if the bloodpoint bonus from using the yellow mori offering post update is even worth it and if the other mori offerings are gonna be affected in some way as well besides that there's minimal to no change to how the games will be played from now on
it goes live I hope they won't change the other mori offerings and mori perks bcuz that would suck
what are you talking about? bhvr is just a game studio that makes video games. No one cares about the fog whisperer BS, and no one cares if they have 'consultants'. The only people that care are the fog whisperers that feel like they should be hired hands for the studio and should be more important than they are.
So streamers are finally realizing that corporations don't give a fuck about them. That should be common knowledge by now.
FogWhisperers died the moment they canceled Samination, it was pretty obvious it was a means to an end.
They what?
what was the story with Sam?
What happened with Samination?
Giiirl what’s the T?
For everyone here people accused Sam of being transobic and a bunch of other things cause their animation "Renato and Thalitas woke adventures" they got a bunch of heat for said animation it was so bad bhvr canceled their fog whisper status if u want a deeper explanation u should google it
Imagining SpookyLoops without a beard makes me believe he'd look like Mr beast
I love DBD but at this point, all I can say is WTF BHVR. They have a community who loves the game, they spend countless of hours on it, stream it, make content on RUclips etc., and instead of involving the community more, they select a few people to be the voices for major changes in the game.
ah yes the community that always complains about “survivor sided” or “killer sided” instead of finding a middle point that’s fun and fair to both…
Tbf, DBD/BHVR never presented this program publicly nor implied it was new. They STILL haven’t made an official post in regards to it. They’ve only responded to a forum thread. The consultants themselves came forward when their NDA allowed them too. But DBD’s silence on everything going on speaks volumes.
The consultant program is literally just hiring pros to do QA, it's really not a big deal; I imagine that it actually saves them a fair amount of money by not having to keep as much QA staff on salary. It's a shame BHVR is so corpo, feeling like a sentient wallet isn't good for my engagement.
It's funny you mention Hens, since as soon as I saw him on there, I was like "Now I know why the Iron Will / DS / DH meta is back in 2024" - I guess it goes to prove your point about BHVR using consultants as a shield for their decisions, intentionally or otherwise. I'm worried by who's in the group, you're reassured by it, and at the end of the day we're probably both wrong since BHVR won't listen to any of them anyway.
I do not want pretentious streamers balancing the game.
There have been so many streamers that thought they were going to decide how DbD would go in the future once they became a Fog Whisperer. Then they quit a year or so later because that wasn't the case...but what did they really think? They're just streamers. I stream, but I don't think the world or the creators of the games I play owe me a thing. Sometimes I think having a few fans watch their stream gets to their heads and they think they're on top of the world.
Maybe they made it public so more people would want to join
Some of these content creators/fog whisperers would genuinely be willing to sit down with the people at BHVR and write lists upon lists upon lists of things that need to be changed and test them and help with whatever else they can, just out of pure love for DBD, and BHVR couldn't care less. Almost like they'd rather just have the people who complain leave because fixing their game takes too much effort, and instead they bet on attracting new players with cool characters like Vecna and Chucky and Alan Wake. Imagine if BHVR actually cared about nurturing their own community and making long-term improvements instead of only caring about how much money the next quarter is gonna earn them.
This game has gone to hell because of BHVR. I stopped playing a while ago. I came back for the xenomorph because that's one of my favorite franchises ever, but that wasn't enough to keep me going. They just keep making bad decision after bad decision. This move of theirs proves how dishonest and unattached they are from the community.
so hens was a consultant on the twins rework?!..ouch
He's very problematic , sus content creator in the new game tester team yeah no thanks
The dude was pretty much irrelevant/unknown until Otz started playing with him.
@@EvilLordCanas well now he's not , bullying baby killers for content and now a game tester yikes
Theyve never listened to fog whisperers. One of the main ones quit playing over when they changed the dynamic of the meta and hes like what you are doing will kill the game.
The gameplay in the background hurts my soul
Somehow multiple people are surprised about Fog Whisperers just being who BHVR likes and wants to represent the game for advertising purposes. I thought everyone knew this for years based on their description of the program and how they treat Fog Whisperers in regards to feedback, but I guess not.
Edit: as for the consultant program, I think it's good they're separating them, my only concern is trusting BHVR to choose credible players for QA.
To be fair. The Billy buff was necessary and fine. He should be top 3 with his skill floor and ceiling to master. He takes thousands of hours to master. It was a big w from Behavior. But I already knew that they don't listen to feed back and changes. I mean most people didnt want Iron will gutted but they did it anyway.
I mean iirc king otzdarva and even tru3 said that the fog whisperers had no part in balance changes they said they could suggest stuff but it was rarely if ever taken into consideration. That being said I know that the devs won't be listening to any of these people. Unless they're all just survivor mains that want killers to be miserable, I get tofu is in it and he does a health dose of both sides, but mob mentality and peer pressure is a thing.
there’s cosplayers, artists and more in the Fog Whisperers program that love the game but probably don’t play it as much as a consultant does.
so why would you take advice from a casual?
1:48 COSMETICs only for members but no prestige rewards sound like FOMO.
Huh? I thought Fog Whisperers were always shills. Otz keeps telling time and time again how they (BHVR) don't listen to him, at all. From everything I hear, I could easily figure out to myself its just their partner program, they are part of the advertisement machine. Like the light's out thing.. needs to be pretty naive to think every content creator who got invited to the early play, made such similar videos. Otz made one and it didn't feel like it was his video, felt like he was following guideline or instructions. Doesn't mean I devalue Otz or Spookyloopz or anyone else less.. They all have given some real comments but they all have also played into the marketing machine and hopefully received something from their job.
If anything.. This whole Spookyloopz thing feels to me like a "now everyone can figure this out and its so clear we (fog whisperers) are just part of marketing." so he leaves it asap. Isn't it the meta in streaming atm that you need to appear as humble as possible and not caring about business/money? At least Spooky follow the meta.
Funny how time just proved Space coconut and True talent correct...
Well, I think it just went public for transparency and showing that they actually listen and care, want to improve.
They don't have infinite money to pay every community members has consultant, so they have to pick carefully, they probably pick 2-3 players of each "experience level" like: Casual, Average, Hardcore, maybe even on both side "Killers" and "Survivors", so all the spectrum are there to be tested.
They probably also pick community members that are neutral and don't express their emotions publicly for PR safety.
That is just my input from a business analyst (IRL job) perspective.
EDIT: Oh and I want to add that they are consultants, which mean they are under a contract, when their contract will come to an end, we don't know what is next... maybe they will pick other community members? Who knows?
Oh so they can't discriminate the normal players vs their golden children...oh shucks.... I fucking hated the whisperer program for awhile. Don't forget they had catered matches too
Fog Whisperers are pretty cringe and do more damage to the game than good.
So Fog Whisperers are just better Twitch-Shirt Owners.
I don’t understand the issue that FW’s are having? Anyone that leaves always seams to have the same issue of “I thought….” Like, you get T&C’s.
You know your contract. You know your duties. Anything you want above that (opinions taken, suggestions, more knowledge) is a privilege that BHVR does NOT need to extend.
It’s not BHVR’s problem that FW’s want more. That’s not the task.
They know, they are just doing this for clout
Based on the clip at the start of the anniversary stream, we have a pretty good idea of their criteria when it comes to involving people from the community. I’m sorry but it’s genuinely too blatant to deny at this point and those kind of decisions are not necessarily going to be the best for practicality and quality.
"I'm someone who spends all his time playing DBD and throwing out opinions. It wasn't enough that I got loads of click bucks for doing this, or that everyone in the community glorifies me for it, I should also be the person whose opinions shape the actual direction of the game. It isn't fair".
So just something to correct that hens showed me, Fog Whisperers were never meant for game balance, they were meant to show the best of the best of the community. Basically Fog Whisperers were representations for the community, not for game balance. It's a HUGE misconception that BHVR never corrected but we as a community need to stop pushing the narrative that fog whisperers are meant to help balance, cuz they are not.
EDIT: I finished the video and I just have to say: just watch hens's video on it, this video has a lot of mis information and is putting the entire program in a giant negative light instead of looking at both positives and negatives.
I just find it weird that so many fog whispers, especially ones that were fundamental in building DBD from the start were so massively mislead about the FW program from the very start.
Seems a bit manipulative to lead them along like they did with an open discord for their suggestions only to have a secret affair with another group of players all along and then make that public information to embarrass them even more.
@@TheOnlyChoy That open Discord had nothing to do with Fog Whisperers. I was on it and was never a Fog Whisperer. (If you're referring to Murder of Crows)
@@ScottJund I gotta blame FW’s for that then because they always said they had a FW discord that linked directly to the devs.
Spooky even referenced it the clip as well. Was it at least for CC’s only or something?
@@TheOnlyChoy Well its a little confusing. There were two Discords. One was Murder of Crows, which featured like 15-20 known players with a direct communication line to the devs. I left it years ago (like in 2020) because they just ignored pretty much everything. My wife was in the Fog Whisperer Discord, which honestly did not have much balance talk at all, mostly PR-related things / content to be aware of coming up, etc.
@@TheOnlyChoybut that’s the thing, they weren’t intentionally mislead. The devs made it pretty clear what the program was for, the community then started the narrative that it was for game balance and what not when that was never the case.
Won’t change anything, people will still shill for this game.
I forgot fog whisperers were even a thing to be honest.
They have explicitly stated that it's just for public representation of the game, it doesnt matter if youre good at the game or not or know balance, it's about being a positive source of "Dead by Daylight". It makes no sense to compare the two.
Far as I can see, the "consultants" are basically just being named as a scapegoat when their updates fail horrifically. As for the Fog Whisperer program, it's literally just a fancy label with no actual power as far as I've come to see with how the company treats their input. Like having your name on a parking spot at a job but the spot is still all the way in the back. I'm not surprised SpookyLoopz dropped out and I suspect more are going to do it until the program gets closed.
"this program will make the dbd community view the Fog Whispers as a bunch of shills"
I'm pretty sure we all looked at them that way long before this announcement
I honestly don't think behaviour even knows what they're doing at this point. They don't listen to the players who play for thousands of hours and i highly doubt they will listen to their inner circle.
I guess nobody really understands the
Fog Whisperer Program , It was not supposed to be anything special lol
Fog Whisperer are Just to promote the game
Ya I uninstalled a week ago after 4k hours the game isn't fun anymore and it feels like its a bunch of deaf monkeys lending this game.
This is what they do at all gaming companies. My roommates used to do this at Activision. They hire people that are really into games. Streamers are into games but they’re mostly into streaming.
When gamedev turns into politics
french canadian devs in a nutshell
Spooky is so entitled that he decided to make a scene because they opened the opportunity to the community instead of directly handing it over to him.
It doesn't seem right there have been streamers "influencing" the community without the community knowing they were being paid by BHVR.
this is way blown out of proportion. spooky is just being salty because he wasnt selected. spooky can be entertaining to watch but his game knowledge isn't the greatest and i wouldn't take his feedback on game improvement mechanics tbh.
Heck, I'm upset for the Fog Whisperers. These are DBD's biggest creators just kinda getting shafted, and as much as they, and most of us, love the game and community, this is a tragic turn of events
they are not DbD's biggest creators, there’s cosplayers, artists and more in the Fog Whisperers program that love the game but probably don’t play it as much as a consultant does.
so why would you take advice from a casual?
@@Big_Bird_Abelardo a large majority of FW play nearly every day and at least once or twice a week. That's anything but casual when you have a full time job. So your point you keep commenting is moot. Stop responding to everyone with a pointless claim.
This was a slap in the face to all the fog whispers and should be apparent. They didn't care about FW (which bring many people to the game and help it thrive), they don't care about you. Stop defending a company that would step on your neck for a dime.
I thought everybody already knew fog whisperers were just advertisement people for the game...
If otz isnt part of the consultant program then its a flop for sure
I don't understand why this is surprising to anyone Fog Whispers were always just free advertisement with perks.
leave it up to bhvr to keep fucking everything up around their most successful game
As per fog whisperers, dbd hasn’t cared for a while, when you change the game so much to appease new players and drive away the players that have invested so much in your company, one can only assume the their is no loyalty to consumers.
Making this public just seems like damage control, I agree. Look at us, we are FIXING AND LISTENING give us bonus points - and if we did a bad job, it was the consultants!!!!
Have to say that the idea of "non-biased" players brought up in this video is just rubbish. Nobody is unbiased, and there are experienced players out there who do show preferences for killer or survivor, so I do hardline disagree with the idea the game should only focus on top-tier, experienced players advising, because they are not in the general pubs domain.
You need people from all over, not just the top tier. If it's solely for experienced gamers, it's just as elitist as the corporate idea being argued against here. A mix is needed.
You need to hear why casual players do or don't enjoy certain balance aspects of a game but their actual ideas on how to address those problems are almost always very flawed.
@@TheOnlyChoy Same with experienced players. Both sides will also have people who have great ideas. This isn't something someone can just lump a supposed belief on a group. It's a mistake to do so.
The consultant program being a paid position complicates things. They would legally be foreign contractors and be provided certain protections that BHVR would have to carefully consider if they don't want to open themselves up to a lawsuit.
I get how Fog Whisperers could be annoyed and thought they'd have a bigger impact on the development of the game, and maybe the role wasn't communicated as well as it could have been, but I mean... Who cares, suck it up? They're fraction of a fraction of the DBD community. BHVR does not owe them anything, and they're free to quit the program at any time; the majority don't because they know the benefit being endorsed by BHVR can do for their stream. That is what the role is; an officially endorsed content creator. It is a mutually beneficial arrangement. All the cries of "shills" or "marketing slaves" is a tad over-dramatic.
A consultant program COULD work wonders for balance changes, if it is handled properly. Given BHVR's track record, and the few details we do know about the program, it's unclear if it will. My personal opinion is an unpopular one amongst the community, but one that has proven successful with countless other games; balance around competitive play and tournament results. There is no such thing as a game that's "more competitive" or "more casual", only a game that's decently balanced or not. People will try to win the video game no matter what. They will optimize the fun out of it. Just throwing up your hands and saying "but it's not meant to be competitive so we're not going to balance the game" does not work. Look how that turned out for TCM; it's impossible to find a lobby. And there are countless other games I could cite as examples well.
DBD is not a very technically demanding game; there's certainly some skill required, but even the best players in the world won't really need to pull off multiple frame-perfect inputs or frequent cross-map snipes like some other games. It's mostly about game knowledge; learning the maps, what perks do, situational awareness... Stuff that anyone can learn with enough time and effort. Learning how to slam out gens efficiently or how and when to effectively camp a hook or tunnel survivors will always be more impactful than learning some super-specific niche tech that might save you three seconds in 1% of matches. Because those are the win conditions the game is designed around; generators and kills. It's fine if you don't find that fun, but that's what DBD is, and no amount of wishful thinking will change that gameplay loop. It is so fundamental that they would need to completely redesign the game to change it. The only thing they can do at this point is bring all the killers and perks more in line so at least there is some variety in matches.
I'll give an example, DBD League already banned sabo basically because one team got so good at it they could effectively shut down killers completely with no counterplay. And that is with all the added restrictions; no duplicate perks or really strong items, etc. And now BHVR are buffing toolboxes sabo speed, and big surprise, it's becoming very difficult to deal with, and will only get harder as pub players practice it more. Largely due to Background Player still being way overtuned. The comp scene ALWAYS finds the problematic perks and gameplay first, because they have tens of thousands of dollars riding on it and often >8000 hours play time each. So when people say they want the game to be "balanced for casual", what they mean is "make the game unbalanced because I want to exploit unfair mechanics".
TL;DR I could write a goddamn thesis paper on DBD. I'm a game developer myself as well, and it is a unique case study.
I havent played DBD Since a little bit after Chucky release. Stopped playing because I lost interest. Saw the Unknown release and was just disgusted. Vecna was released, the Otz video dropped, and for the first time, I didn't even bother watching it. Even though I knew it would be a good video. I'm done with this Abusive Relationship. BHVR can go hook its self.
Tbh it never did anything anyways
The way BHVR is pushing things off on fog whisperers that wasn't even their job in the first place (nothing that actually matters to game development) I feel like they are just expanding this consultant program because they FIRED WAY TO MANY PPL... now they are paying chump change to randoms to do the same kind of job (or pushing random things off on FW).
I have to say, as an aside, 0 FW should be a part of the consultant program. Henz and OhTofu should NOT be on it because they will influence any of the new players. They should have a tiered and separated levels of consultation. I do not think ANYONE in comp should be deciding changes in dbd. I think comp has done a lot to ruin this game.
I thought it was obvious that the fog whispers program was only to have puppets promote the game. (Not to offend but… come on 🤷🏻♂️) free advertising.
People need to understand behavior is no longer a small indie group, it’s a corporation now. Little by little they are leaning towards consumers who will eat anything and ignore people with passion for the game.
Imma be real. I assumed all fog whispers were shills anyway so 🤷🏻♀️
I don't know what to think. There's no transparency.