How to Fix DBD's Endless Meta Problem
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
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In this DBD video we're going to take a look at how COD Black Ops 2's Pick 10 Create a Class system could massively benefit DBD. With the game becoming increasingly sweaty to the point where it's almost no longer enjoyable, being review bombed across multiple platforms, and dropping player count consistently. Something needs to be done to revitalize Dead By Daylight. A currency based system is my idea to do that.
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this system would be REALLY interesting in this game,
I really hope that they try a PTB with something like this.
This will be Call of Duty: Black Ops 6:
Fog Ops*
SBMM completely changed DBD for the worst, unfortunately. The majority of matches are just too stale and boring. 💀💀💀💀
Ironically, the same is happening right now with call of duty.
The problem might be not having a ranked mode because you need submm good players abusing baby killers or survivors who come for licensed content doesn’t help the game because it drives them away from the game sbmm is need the difference between cod is that cod is a 6v6 so you can balance the teams with bad players and good players on both teams instead of an entire lobby being that way dbd is a 1v4 sbmm is needed to not runoff lower skilled players with abuse from higher skilled players
Bring back og Freddy
I really miss the old ranking system. It made you play to earn that pip so you can keep your rank. Now, it really doesn't matter if you die instantly or kill all survivors, it's all just hidden by sbmm. The matches back then had variety too, you could be facing against a top of the world killer or survivor team, so you focus and try to keep your rank, or you could have a chill and casual match too
Yeah, in the old emblem system where the killers didn't use Ruin and pop all the time, and the build of survivors weren't Dead hard, DS, Unbreakable and Borrowed Time. Ah
I’m only half way through, but I feel a good additional idea would be that the killer’s own perks are cheaper on said killer.
I just went in with just perks and punched or knifed people with this 10 point system in COD. I'm down to use no perks to get the bloodpoint boost for sure.
I loved seeing how far I could get from a conventional loadout. Secondary only for life
Another idea from COD that I think DBD would benefit from MASSIVELY and maybe even get matches to be a lot more casual is the way old CODs used to keep lobbies together. Keeping lobbies together not only promotes community cause you’re playing with the same people multiple times, but it’ll make matches less sweaty. One reason people sweat is cause they know they only have one chance to win against these players. But if they knew they’d have more matches to play with one another and learn each other’s strategies or learn to adapt to their strategies it’ll make for a more casual couple of games where people are just having fun. And guess what, if you join a lobby with a sweaty killer/survivors then you can just leave the lobby, find another group that’s to your liking and then just stay in the lobby playing with the group you think favors your way of playing. Say what you want about COD, but it did a lot of things right that many multiplayer games can and should learn from.
old cod also kept new players together their first like 10 or games or something before they got released to the wolves with no sbmm or very lenient unnoticeable sbmm. showing that sbmm isn't needed and ping is king when it comes to searching for a lobby.
yeah but bloodpoint farmers will abuse this
@@brianestepa2376 what? who cares. why- why does that matter?
@@brianestepa2376 But you need Bloodpoints in DbD to get items and unlock perks, I don't see the issue with farming for BP.
@@BrightWulph ??? its not playing the game naturally. the killers and survivors going from gen to gen for 30 mins while the killer kicks the gen, lets survs repair it, kicks it again, lets surv repair it, kicks it again, etc. then they go to hook, he hooks every survivor 2 times and lets them unhook… thats not fun, its a stupid way to play the game. and if you dont want to do that you’re screwed cause you get penalized for leaving the game.
i get max bp every game just from playing normally. you dont need to play like an idiot to farm bp
I remember hearing this idea years ago but it wasn’t nearly as in depth, before it was only about the perks being graded and weighed on a 4 point scale
they could try this in a game mode , i really think it's a great idea and they have nothing to loose this way!
VHS has a great perk point system which kept the meta in check regarding perks, Hellbent didn't need to change perks that much thanks to that system. I think something similar would work greatly for DBD.
hellbent had other issiues though.
@e9035 For sure, but perk balance was not a major concern which required a lot of attention because of the perk point system.
@@SuspiciousPufferfishdo you trust Behaviour balance team to know which perks underperform or overperform and why they do it?
They just buffed huntress while noone was complaining about her being too weak. But pig got a nerf while it litteraly became a meme them nerfing pig for no reason, they are completely ignorant.
@@liandre9035I am the last one to run to BHVR's favour, but be realistic here. Pig just got her headpops nerfed. Her ambush feels amazing.
@@GabrielR132 I have not tried her ambush yet, might be its better, but her traps are such unneccessary, how come she gets a nerf ontop of a buff? why? she is not that strong. And people that camp boxes are a niche issiue, i rather have a camping pig than a full meta nurse when playing survivor. Havent seen pig in months. Last pig player was somehow new even, running yellow perks and not knowing shit, and of all things on badham. 1 time opportunity for facing a diffrent killer and not had 1 chase with her.
And this is the killer that bhvr decides to nerf, so pig is even more rare.
Honestly if they added a perk randomizer that granted bonus BP I would be a rondomizer main and I think it would incentivize a lot of people to run different perks discovered through randomizer.
Also maybe add a tag or a symbol at the end of the game indicating that a player used randomizer as sort of a bragging rights/show off kind of thing.
I’m not the absolute super mega fan of a pick 10 system but I would absolutely LOVE to see the builds people come up with. I’m really enjoying these discussion videos they’re very interesting! 💛
Ngl they have to give me like 200-300% more blood points for trying out a randomized perks 😅 especially being a killer main because you can get a complete build where perks don’t even have effect at all 😂
Bro I've been suggesting something similar to what the title of the video, I haven't watched the video yet but I wanted to share me excitement with this topic maybe becoming a discussion in the community
On every survey they made i had my same statement about more killer variety on the "share your thoughts with us" part since 3 years. BHVR is completely oblivious to what the community wants, most recent changes make it VERY clear they balance for low mmr. No other reason why huntress got a buff without anyone requesting it, other than your occasional newbie who struggles with her hatchets, so they make throwing them easyer.
Or pig, with her traps. New players miss skill checks, dont know trap sets off when you complete a gen etc. so clearly they need to nerf traps.
Adding on to this system: whatever perks are currently in the Shrine of Secrets could have their Point Total halved for that week, so everyone can try out a more niche perk.
Or, if a strong perk like Sprint Burst is in the Shrine of Secrets, then Sprint Burst users get a nice bonus and now can squeeze some other strong perks in their build that would be too expensive before. But the killer will be able to anticipate which perks the survivors are likely to bring that week, and craft their own build to try and outsmart it.
I would honestly love this sort of change for the game. It both uniquely evens the playing field between strong and weak whilst also still allowing strong and wacky killers/perks to exist. Also I think it'd be nice to have to be more thoughtful with your builds rather than just slapping on full meta and calling it a day.
I suggestes something similar on the DbD forum long time ago, my idea was slighty different, to just group perks in categories (gen speed, heal bonus, aura perk, addon, map offering and so on ) and assign a value to those group. You have 100 point to create your build so if a perk from the gen group has a value of 60 you are forced to bring lower value item.
In your idea, the only issue are the Dev who have to decide how many point a killer may have and since they said "Trapper is in a good spot and need no rework" i really doubt they can provide the corred ammount of value to killers
Rather than letting BHVR decide which perks are stronger or weaker, I'd rather there be a system similar to how "Rivens" work in Warframe.
The gist of it is, a Riven Mod for weapons will change their multipliers based off the general popularity of it. It gets updated about every 2-3 months.
I'd take this type of popularity system over a general strength rating decided by the devs if a point system was implemented in the way you are proposing here.
would maybe not make that big off a diffrence, BHVRs balance team basicly alredy acts like AI and only looks at numbers.
The issue with rivens is that the devs are the ones that update it and end up causing a lot of...Lets just say silly riven power.
For example: In one of the first riven updates the Attica crossbow being an extremely unpopular weapon got its near maxed riven power cut to the lowest possible riven power... Despite its popularity not changing and remaining a very unpopular weapon.
Plus Rivens are insane powercreep that have permanently damaged warframe.
removing freedoms will make people leave. this would drasticly change the way people would play and it's not easy to see how, could be good could be bad
This is a really interesting system. Definitely something that the devs could test in a PTB. How can we make the devs see this and give it a go?
I am a killer main my self so I can agree that SWFs can be frustrating but in any game not just dbd you should never be punished for playing with your friends.
Yeah that's the hardest sell for this system - not to mention the average SWF isn't a Seal Team 6 Comp Deathsquad like some players would lead one to believe.
You already are. Your MMR is raised to the highest player in the party's MMR, then a separate number is added to that MMR, resulting in both players playing above their individual MMR levels. Choy has a video on this. If you play both solo and duo regularly and have a friend do the same, the results will be very eye-opening.
I'd much rather have a team-centric model that encourages us to theorycraft builds together than the current system, which forces us to play against people outside of our skill range without even saying so.
The fun is playing with your friends No? Winning is secondary even with decreased odds. If you care more about the often easier win then that’s SWFing for an advantage and that advantage needs to be addressed, the devs never seem to realise any buff they give solo is a buff to SWF it will never be possible to balance the game in that way. SWF needs nerfing and that’s the key to start truely balancing the game.
@@FangtheFluffywhat advantage exactly does SWF have?
Communication and Efficiency obviously. @@Charlezard007
This is pretty cool as an idea, only thing I would say is Brown Items as survivors would have to have 0 cost simply because items are the survivor power so weaker brown items would be Trapper/Nightmare level of power while Red Items would be Nurse/Blight level
For the way you said it, it make me remember the Paladins cards system, you have a certain number of points and with them you balance (makes more or less strong) your cards (perks), you cant make all cards/perks to max level so you have to decide wich and how strong you want them to be inside those boundaries
ah yes
the VHS perk system
we could also kinda make the survivors a bit more unique, give them some discount on their perks and discount for their theme, like claudette having healing/stealth discount by like 8 and 5, Dwight having Teamwork/Aura/Tech by 5, 3, 3, Bill having Risk/Aura/Healing 6, 4, 3(bc stealth is negative) ect ect other survivors can get a bit of discount that matches what they are trying to go for
the real problem is no black ops 2 multiplayer menu music during the video.
I don't think I'm completely opposed to this idea only because some perks could be made omega strong and cost extra points in the system just to be unique, and bad perks have some form of value. I dont like not being able to run potentially niche builds I'm sure would somehow be affected. some perks are basically tied to others which I'm sure will cause problems.
This could just be it's own mode honestly, or have an unlimited mode for maximum trollage. this as a mode could also just test the waters for what people think.
Interesting idea. It could be automated, so that the more often a perk is used by the player base, the more expensive it gets (could be per killer too).
This type of system is something I've personally wanted for a long time in DBD. Even if it was just for perks and left items/ add-ons unaffected I feel it would be a great improvement for the games overall health.
Cute idea, I like different thinking. Two main issues. one is that it would make talks on perk nerfs/buffs even more miserable than it already is. "Oh this perk should be 20 instead of 25" or "no, because if that perk is 20 then they can use this other perk and the synergy is too strong" and that all sounds God awful. And two, nerfing swf's is kinda weird, bc sure balance wise they're stronger than solo queue, but punishing people for playing a videogame with friends is super weird and counterintuitive. Neat idea, I don't think it's better than the current system though.
I agree but how else it could be balanced out. It is similar to "cute idea but wouldn't it be too OP with nurse or blight?"
There definitely needs to be some kind of limitation that wouldn´t return the game into its bully simulator period.
@eliasar5051 there are other options than what this yter is suggesting. I dont think that this system should even consider addons and items as part of a currency system, because its already random chance to get them from the bloodweb or in game, and it makes it that much more difficicult for new players to get into the game, because yes, these new players could just run good perks and not think about how perks match with each other, but then going onto which perks and items and addons work with each other ontop of how much each perk costs is going to be too much for newer players
@@ExJojo Every such new player 100% will accumulate large amount of those "rare" add ons. Besides, restricting perks but not add ons will result in some very disgusting scenarios in which one side will have no chance for any counterplay.
@@eliasar5051 I tend to disagree. Not wanting something because nurse or blight could abuse it is radically different from not wanting to nerf friends having fun in a videogame designed to have fun.
What if, instead of nerfing players that are playing in a SWF, we instead buff the players playing by themselves? Survivors start at 100 points in a full SWF, and then for every player less than that in their party, they can get an additional 10 points to use in their builds. Numbers can be adjusted around, but the idea would be to reward the players that are going to have a tougher time with additional help.
They could make the tiers relevant. Once you've unlocked each tier of that perk, you can choose the lesser tier because it will cost less points
I absolutely love the idea of a "point system". I have always personally had this opinion for a long time but it's really nice to see I'm not the only one who believes that this is a good idea. It could really allow players to expand build variety and overall increase the fun level of the game. Of course there will ALWAYS be meta slaves, but a change like this would make controlling the meta much easier from a balance standpoint and also increase build variety throughout the game in its entirety. I don't think there should be a nerf to SWF's however unless it's a bloodpoint incentive. I agree that soloqueue is the worst survivor experience, therefore there should be a bloodpoint incentive to basically play the games "hard mode". But I feel that nerfing the power of SWF's will very much cause massive discourse between the communities and punish players for just wanting to enjoy the game with their friends. It would feel absolutely terrible. I think something as simple as removing SWF's from bringing map offering's would reduce their power in numbers significantly. SWF's will always be better than soloqueue and thats perfectly okay. Going so far as to materially nerfing their in game power just because they want to play with friends would absolutely hurt the game in the long run. SWF's aren't even the powerhouses many killer mains believe they are. They make mistakes, they make far more risks to save just 1 person which can absolutely throw the game for them. Making information perks cost low amounts of "points" could close the gap between soloqueue and SWF's.
That would be such a good idea, thought about something similar once, but this wont happen.
We're talking about the same company that says it takes years to add a perk overlay so you can see your teammates loadouts, and that's only one example. This change doesnt bring money. So until they're forced into doing stuff like that, because the player count is dropping DRASTICLY for example, this won't come unfortunately.
Warframe has a system with it's weapons for their more powerful mods. The way they balance it is based on use rate. The more the weapon is used the less space it has for the mod. It's a nice middle ground imo that could be added to this make it so more used perks cost more it also means the balance team can automate it to a degree
Is this new? As far as I'm aware not a single weapon works like that?
I have been playing for years and have yet to notice or see anything like that in weapon balancing. Everything has the same mod capacity that you earn as you level the weapons up (with the exception of a few like kuva and tenet weapons that gain more if you put more forma into it up to 5). It's the mods that have different costs depending on what they do/how strong they are, not the weapons.
The closest thing to that is how rivens are balanced, not the weapons themselves. The more popular a weapon is the lower disposition the riven for it has meaning the stats you roll on it won't be as high as a riven with a higher disposition.
Yeah rivens is what I'm talking about sorry been a bit
@@thefakebanette3483 ah, me sees.
If you haven't tried it yet i HIGHLY recommend farming tennokai mods for melee. Broooo they are so fun imo. I've been absolutely hooked on them ever since they came out
I really like this idea other than a major issue for killer (it’s also an issue for survivor but lesser).
It can really limit interesting builds or just make a build some players may like that isn’t great that just becomes impossible to run.
For example I like to run Clown with Cigar box lethal, Infectious, Starstruck, Forced Hesitation.
This build is really fun to me and is strong but with no slowdown can be really hit or miss. This build could possibly be impossible to run with this system and although I play other builds this one just happens to be my fav and without it I don’t think I’d have as much fun with someone like clown.
infectious and star struck are not even meta, i would be highly surprised if those had a high number of points (though with bhvr shit like this is very much possible). As i see it, infectious and starstruck are just really good anti swf perks that really mess up bully squads, but dont really help against die hard genrushers, so thats where the hit and miss comes in.
@@liandre9035 yeah my point is more so that they are decent perks and Cigar box is IMO his best addon besides pinky but we don’t speak of that abomination. And being that behavior has the sole discretion of saying how many points something costs I could see a world where maybe not this build but builds like it would just be impossible to run. I think a good middle ground would be to have this idea of the point system alongside a comp queue. So casual play would be unaffected but comp would have a bit of a limitation
@@professorwatt7344that would just mean noone plays comp. Outside of "tournament" players but they have their own game alredy basicly.
@@liandre9035 I never play comp in games because they usually have limits on what you can really do and are soul sucking to play. I'm sure there would be players that would enjoy a Competitive mode that had these imposed restrictions and some won't. Personally I probably wouldn't touch it outside of trying it out.
All in All I have no idea how you would balance this because balance isn't something I spend time thinking about.
hi choy, do you think an extremely simple system where killer have access to 5 perks slots and survivors having access to 4 perk slots and 1 teachable of their character is a good idea? It's fine if you think it doesn't, i just thought its kinda unfair to have 4 slots for like 20 perks and, 4 slots for 150
Also, i believe your content about dbd is the one that most resonates with me, keep getting your opinion out there. (you called dramaturgy a less powerful version of sprint burst, i know you are right but you hurt my feelings dawg)
This plus gens needing more interactions to fix and reworked would make DBD have way more level of depths
This would breathe life into the game and make it fun again. Maybe the bloodpoint bonus should be 2 or 3% per point not spent to incentive saving some points.
This only goes for survivors, but my idea is rewarding them (with bp etc.) for having more perks that differ from each other, could potentially decrease the amount of full meta being used. Wouldn't help alot but a little I think
I just don’t think this is necessary and overcomplicates a game people like due to it’s simplicity, the game is fairly balanced rn for the most part, proven by the stats, and the game isn’t losing players like u think if u look at steam charts alone, there r much simpler ways to fix things, for example just buffing weak killers, and then buffing survivors afterwards if killer gets too strong, all they need to do is get every killer on semi equal footing so it’s easier to deal with nerfing or buffing survivor, the variability between each killer is the issue
This...this could work. They'd need an option in custom matches to allow perks to be played over the point threshold and possibly make the points system a casual game mode and making the original non-point system as competitive.
That's funny. I'm currntly playing Yakuza 0 for the first time and the way you describe your proposed customization for killer is really similar to Yakuza's Pocket Racing Kart's mini game system.
I would Wonder what would Happen if each Survivor or Killer had a unique Advantage and disadvantage tied into Their Base-kits.
Example for both killer and survivor
Hillbilly: from his Lore Hillbilly has Taken a lot of Punishment and Abuse that he can push through obstacles in his way, so his advantage could be that he recovers from pallet stuns 10% faster then any other killer base-kit, his disadvantage is that Hillbilly base Kit Breaks Pallets 5% slower.
Meg Thomas: Her Lore says shes is an athlete so her Base-kit Advantage Is that while HEALTHY She Recovers from the Exhausted Status effect 5% faster then any other Character. However While Injured, Meg recovers 15% slower from Exhaustion. This would Give Meg while she is Healthy a faster Exhaustion Recovery time then any Other Survivor but she takes a little longer to Recover from it while injured.
The Point of this Concept is that Each Character could both have a Unique base-kit advantage that gives them a slight Edge when compared to Other survivors but also Paired with a Downside that keeps that advantage in Check in most situations. Although just like the Perk Point system is that a Lot of Perks and Add-ons across the Board would need to be reworked or balanced for the new system.
Honestly, the advantages for both characters listed here are pretty cool, but I don't like that their disadvantages are also tied to the same mechanic AND that they end up either negating the original benefit or are just easily ignored. For Billy, I like the stun reduction, but I would say that his downside is something like blood pools being visible for 10-15% less time, something unrelated to pallets to allow the pallet boost to actually shine better without being circumvented by his chainsaw. Similarly, Meg should have a 10% faster Exhaustion recovery, but repair generators 5% slower, or have scratch marks remain for 10% longer. I'm not a big fan of the gen repair slow, to be fair, but I also wouldn't want a survivor to have a repair speed boost as base kit either because then everyone would probably play as them.
Oh, and this system would probably benefit from all survivors having to play as unique survivors, too.
And one final thing, I don't really understand your capitalization system, how do you decide what words you're going to capitalize?
I hope they never do anything like this would kill DBD.... Stop Trying to fix things that are fine.... I play DBD a lot and both killer and survivor not only one side, yes the numbers on some perks need tweaking there no need in a total overhaul of how the game works
So now I need a calculator and have to do math to figure out builds? It's not a bad idea but I can already see the frustration of players not being able to use the perks they want. You would be better off simply marking "meta" perks with a skull, and you can only use 2 or 3 skull perks at a time. Much simpler.
And "weak" killers can use more skull perks, stronger killers less.. etc.
Nah they just need to have multiple metas for both teams instead of killing metas they need to learn to create more but equally powerful metas
Like instead of nerfing dead hard they would buff the killers and other perks for survivors
The main problem with this system is who decides whats strong and what isn't. Its already clear that bhvr struggle to recognise what killers are strong or weak. They'd probably give pig and sadako 60 points to spend and give Singularity or oni 80 points based on killrates.
Additionally it could lead to perks seeing absolutely 0 use as bhvr might give call of brine which is a bad perk the same points as other regression perks such as surge.
The only problem is people like to play with their homies penalizing them for playing with their friends just makes people want to play even less
Cool concept and could be a cool mode! However, lights on mode will be the main focus for the next mode for years to come haha...
Its a great idea I’ve thought of before. This goes without saying but if they got together a team of high-hour players to deliberate the value of perks, that would probably help the balance team a fair bit. I guarantee if you got Scottjund, Knightlight, Hens, Otzdarva, and some other goober and locked them in a room together with a bit of a paid commission, they’d figure out the perfect prices for everything. This is of course a pipe-dream but oh whale.
Please don't do this, especially not Scott Jund, the game is exactly what Scott wants and it sucks so bad.
Honestly I prefer having a full loadout, it just feels nice. I typically don't use mostly meta perks to begin with so this change would probably barely affect me but I still don't like the idea that you could just be locked out of certain perk setups when it could just be a single perk that's strong.
Like imagine if I want to do an anti slugging build and I have things like Soul Guard, Power Struggle, Flip Flop, and then Unbreakable, but oops I can't cause Unbreakable is too much. Yeah I could drop one of these perks, but most of them only work in this build or similar builds, and not having Unbreakable breaks this build.
So while the idea is nice, I don't think even with tweaking that it would truly work in DBD, they could try it and I'd be down to give it a try, and who knows if it's good enough maybe they make a separate queue so they see which is more favourable and if it's split keep both, if one is very heavily dominating the other keep that one.
VHS used a very similar perk point system to what Choy described, but one thing that was particularly cool IMO was that each tier of a perk was treated separately with its own point value. So for example, Unbreakable Tier 3 might be too expensive to fit into your build, but you could take it at Tier 1 instead ...so still get the perk, just a slightly weaker version. Or maybe you take Tier 2 of all 4 perks, or some other combination of tier 1, 2 and 3 that would add up to the right total you need. It could add a lot of diversity to the build possibilities and allow you to compromise in ways that don't feel too restrictive.
@@Foxe92 honestly I’m more okay with that but I’d prefer if they made it so perk colour was customizable because if I have one yellow perk and three purples it’s going to feel so off.
So hopefully they can have it be just the ticks on the side, maybe make the colour changeable!
Either way it’s an idea worth experimenting if anything!
This would limit builds even more and not solve killers running the same stuff. You say it's not a nerf to top killers but that's exactly what this is. It would limit builds even more. We already have killers who basically require certain add ons to be playable like Bubba with award winning chili or Knight with Map of the Realm and this would limit them even more. It would also require BHVR to determine how strong each killer is and compare them to each other. Do they go off kill rates? If that's the case, then killers like Freddy and Pig would have less points then Blight and Spirit. It also wouldn't solve perks being overpowered. Things that are overpowered would still need to be changed. Would this system mean something like old Dead Hard or Eruption when it applied 25 seconds of Incapacitated would be able to stay and be ok just because they cost more? How do they judge perks that are incredible on some killers but worthless or just not as good on others like Bamboozle on Bubba or Barbecue & Chilli on high vs low mobility killers. Do you really think people would play more Trapper because they can run a build they can already run right now? I know the argument is if you want to run a top tier build you need to play weaker killers, but no one plays a killer because of perks unless there is a certain build that can only work on that killer like skill check Doctor which this system could also limit. People play killers for their powers.
Love your videos, very insightful and informative without any filler
damn, interesting idea! didn't think about this system
I actually like this idea and would LOVE to see BHVR testing this out and see where it goes. However, measuring the amount of points each killer can use will be hell to make and satisfy each killer´s needs. Now, I'm going to present an example that does NOT fully reflect the current reality of things and in some cases is not accurate but demonstrates the ridiculous way BHVR takes action.
Nurse or Blight of course are no-brainer low-point candidates in the community´s eyes but what are devs going to use? Otz tierlist? No, they are going to use their spreadsheet that says Nurse is underperforming statistically and thus should get a lot of points. Or for example, Legion is almost overperforming (yes I know that is pure fantasy, but in their statistics, they are fine thanks to being extremely lethal to new players, not because they are good killers) and thus should get a bit fewer points, Twins, artists and skull merchants are absolute monsters and thus should be allowed to use way less points, etc. etc.
That would be a disaster of gigantic proportions. But if it is actually handled well, not via spreadsheet, it might be a massive improvement for the game.
Not gonna lie, I really want to try this version of the game
I've been saying this exact thing for a long time now, allows stronger killers to get fast nerfs with weaker getting fast buffs
I really like the idea. It opens up the options to make really strong perks and still be balanced. But there are problems and reasons why BHVR can't really fix this:
1. Combos: DBD perks can be weak like Endurance, but in combination with other perks like Spirit Fairy, it can be really strong. But how do you fix that? Buckle Up and For the People are both not really good perks, so they need to cost fewer points. But when you run them together, they are OP and need to cost more. But then it's not worth playing, and the devs need to look for every combo by any perks and try to fix it from the points so that one side doesn't have a massive amount of points and OP perks. But still not too much so you can play them. And that's only the perk-to-perk combos. But when you play power-to-perk combos, then it's getting more complicated because Dead Man's Switch is almost worthless on a Trapper but on an Artist, it's an S+ perk. So you need to change the points for every killer individually so that they are still worth running on one killer but not OP on another killer. And this with every perk on over 34 killers is just way too much work.
2. Perk Slots: To only play with 2-3 perks can change the match. Perk slots are insanely important in DBD, and to waste a perk slot with a weak perk to have 2 strong perks is not really good as a killer. Because you play against 16 other perks and having a weak perk in your slot can give the other side a really strong advantage.
3. Weak Killer: I am a Myers main, and my friends play killers like Freddy or Clown. I play Myers most of the time for fun, not to win matches, but my friends play to win. And they say that they need 1-2 slowdown perks because their killer has no map pressure or good chase slowdown. So they take, let's say, 2 gen slowdown perks and want to take 2 other normal perks with them. But they don't have enough points, so they take 1 weak perk so they can spend their points on the gen slowdown perks. So they don't get gen-rushed because they have no base map pressure. So they have 2 slots on 2 slowdown perks and 1 weak perk for the points. So they have only 1 slot free for a medium perk. Then the build has 1 weak perk, 2 gen slowdowns, and 1 medium perk on a weak killer instead of 2 slowdown perks and 2 good perks. So this is a debuff for weak killers, and strong killers don't need so much slowdown because they make much gen pressure. So they just take 2 strong perks or 4 medium perks and can just move on. And they are still in a better position because the survivors also have this restriction.
4. Surv vs Killer Perks: A killer's gen slowdown is most of the time stronger than a whole build from a survivor. So taking 2 slowdown perks out is like 2 survivors playing without perks. But they have perks. That's the reason you see more meme builds on the survivors; they are not addicted to their perks.
5. (Extra) Meme Addon: I think the debuff system for more points is really cool, but I would put an extra slot for debuff perks/add-ons so you have enough slots to use the points. Then you only have 4, and 1 of them would be gone because of the debuff perk/add-on, and you have the debuff as well.
Honestly, would be nice to see this as a broadly discussed idea in the community, by big players and maybe eventually getting to the devs
Ive b een calling for a currency based system for like or 4 years now. It really is the best option imo. Or at least a mode where you can play with it. I really think most the player base will realize its a much better game with something like that.They can always just change values instead of completely changing perks as well. Its so simple I think.
Even better. The point system does not have to come into effect for comp because comp is played in custom lobbies - so point systems can be removed for custom via an option maybe. In settings just have an option to apply points system or turn on “free play” to remove it - then it will not affect comp as they have their own rules anyway and also in case party’s just want to play with each other and have fun. But you also have the option to turn it on if you want to maybe practice for live games with your SWF or with a specific killer
I think this type of perk system would be great! It reminds me of the trait systems in games like Sheltered 2 or Project Zomboid. You have a limited number of points, and positive perks cost points while negative perks give you more to spend on stronger choices.
I'd go a step further and suggest that even perks with highly situational benefits (like Camaraderie) should give some points back. They have limited usefulness in most matches, so it makes sense to reward players for taking that risk, even if the perk isn't as overtly negative as something like No Mither.
Additionally, some powerful but situational meta perks, like Adrenaline, could be considered neutral. These perks offer strong effects in specific scenarios (like the last generator being completed), and it might be fair to let players include them without a point penalty or with a small cost.
Finally, here are some niche perks with situational uses that could also grant a few points back, as they rarely provide benefit: Calm Spirit, Second Wind, Borrowed Time, and Poised.
I always switch perks every few games makes it much more tolerable. On killer meme builds are always my go to. I was thinking they should half a bunch of the small niche perks and make mini buff perks you could pick so some other perks could get picked rather then not at all. Your idea sounds good but after those comments saying it would take years to add things mobile has leaves me with little hope.
I hate that these days we have to take 20 minutes before saying/suggesting literally anything to give a full legal disclaimer as to what we're NOT saying. Too many people are just foaming at the mouth and ready to purposefully misinterpret, take things out of context, and jump to conclusions just to be contrarian. It wastes so much of our time when 2/3rds of the time we spend making suggestions to improve things has to instead be spent writing entire paragraphs to circumvent people who would rather poke holes than actually discuss progress
I went and fixed my typo for "entire" 😅
Oops
totaly agree. adding a currency value to everything would make a lot things better. it would add an additional lever for the devs to balance things out.
behavior has to genuinely be some of the worst game developers that exist, they actively choose to make their game worse and go against the wishes of their playerbase for some reason. like this is how you lose players, by constantly changing nothing year after year, like what reason do people have to play this game long-term?
please somebody get BHVR to watch this video, this would change the game so much
devs should remove maps offerings aswell and hatch offerings. people are abusing them way too much to get advantages. would be very easy to implement aswell
Bro I suggested a pointed loadout system YEARS AGO on the forums and they moved it from general discussion to some other tiny area nobody ever ever looks at. I wanna remind BHVR that YOU SHOULD HAVE HIRED ME
I am very intrigued by this system and I think it does help with the balance and your reasoning makes sense. The only things I’m not to sure about is if I’m personally ok with some killers being at different level of powers it could have the implication that killers that need more points are worse overall. Also not sure about the SWF point reduction as while SWF tends to be better, it feels like a punishment for friends playing with friends.
No, what we ACTUALLY NEED is a Call of Duty Zombies chapter with Brutus as the killer, Shadows of Evil as the map, and Primis Richtofen as the survivor.
I'd actually be willing to reinstall the game to test a system like this.
A good starting point for how many points a Perk/thing is worth can easily just be pick rate. Once again, starting point. Like anything in either side's Top 10 is worth 25 points. I like this better than a casual mode. Which imo would do nothing.
Another game I played added a casual mode. Yugioh Master Duel. But nobody played casually there at all. Players just used it as a testing ground to practice their sweaty Meta decks without fear of losing their rank. The most "casual" thing about it is that, ok. They at least aren't a MASTER of their sweaty deck yet. But they still brought the sweat.
I feel DBD would be no different.
the real truth is this player base only wants cheesy strats to get wins as easy as possible, Thats why they are always complaining once their little cheese strat gets messed with. Its so lame.
Yo this would actually make DbD fun if they kept SBMM
What a very well thought out and interesting system that would add many layers of fun for me and a large chunk of the community, it'd be a mighty shame if BHVR just, didnt...
oh... :(
Honestly an amazing idea. I think this'd make DBD such a more fun experience, just by the simple push to make unique builds. The amount of times I've seen the same 12 perks between both sides has made the game feel pretty monotonous, so I feel like this would make at least the majority of players enjoy the game a lot more.
Not a bad idea at all. It'll prolly need some tweaks but overall I like the concept. Im just tired of seeing the same builds over and over and this could bring some variety to the table
I thought about this looong ago and made a forum post about it, i still think it's the right solution
Behaviour is gonna take years to let the survivors see the perks of their teammates something like this would take until 2030
Fov Slider took 8 years, or something? dead hard nerf took 7 years. it was until recently where they finally introduced another gamemode and it was such low effort even, until we get real stuff i think ive stoped gaming because of age lol.
I love this game, but i have a huge dislike for these amateurs calling themselfs "behaviour interactive"
Choy, you cooked with this one. This is pretty rough right now, but this is an actual fresh idea for game change. I support this idea, and think this would be a breath of fresh air for the game and a potential revival for the "fun" aspects of the game.
This currency system i really believe it could work FOR a separate game mode, you know what? that's what the Ranked Mode should be at with the Skill matchmaking system on AND greater rewards while in casual mode is just the usual day of which we can do whatever we want which in that way it doesn't break the status quo of DBD and even improve the matchmaking system there if they want to, do other things such as showing your current MMR points and all instead of being hidden, this can work out.
The currency system can be applied to custom game as well as an option
Idea is interesting, but what will you do with complex perks or killers? Like Dead Hard for weak to average player doesn't have as much value as it has to top tier players (especially now when it's only 2 time use per match at best). Similar stuff with Nurse - she is stronger the better mmr, but at low mmr she is kind of a joke of little threat. Same stuff with Hag or Singularity. Killers that doesn't play normally and/or are complex in their learning curve will inevitibly get hurt with that system. The same goes for complex perks, making them punishing to use while being hard to use.
Btw. seeing current Behavior policy I doubt Nurse would be the one with the lowest points. Tbf. she probably would have more points than Freddy (just look at kill percentages they shared). The killers who would be the most limited would be Skull Merchant, Sadako, Pig etc.
This is a really good idea and I wish it were the case...
My issue with this system is it doesn’t address the issues with the maps. Maps are one of the biggest factors messing up balance. The reason nurse is by far the best killer is her power lets her ignore map issues
I think it's a good idea, but how will you know when you're against a SWF or just solo q? 🤔
I think it could work for perks but not items/addons/offerings cuz those are all single use vs perks that you get once and have forever. I think with map offerings they need to bring back the old ones and make new yellow and brown ones for all the maps since springwood, so there will just be more map offerings used which will muddy the pool and make even using map offerings not guarantee a map. They should also be making more maps in each realm so there's always a chance of getting a map that you don't want even bringing the map offering. I also think if they do a currency system for perks like VHS, there should be more than 4 perk slots otherwise it don't make much sense. Then I can bring a whole bunch of off meta perks/ perks that only do one little thing.
I've enjoyed this idea for awhile now but I've always worried that the devs would incorrectly assign points to certain perks. Like I feel like they'd make the top ten most used perks be the most points even though they aren't always meta.
I guess one of the problems would be that perks are different on killers (like Merciless Storm on Doctor vs the other killers) or the fact that some Meme Addons are pretty strong (example Plague or Wesker)
another problem would be that you have to buff all addon reliant killers like Dredge or Bubba, which would be fantastic bc I hate it when killers are heavily addon reliant
and the tryhard swfs will start sniping themselves to bypass the penalty lmao
I don't know how it would work in practice, but I do like the idea.
Especially as I usually don't run meta perks that much.
If they did a currency system they should add more slots for perks and addons. Else if you have 50 points to spend on perks and the worst perks being like worth 4 points and only getting 4 slots you'd still never have a reason to use them.
This system is actually what I would like to see in the future
Honestly, as a Nurse main playing Nurse without perks and addons for the last ~5 (?) years, I wouldnt mind if we just removed perks and addons from her. She really doesnt need them.
a system like this would completely kill all build creativity and you wouldnt ever see anyone with quirky builds
they could try this in a game mode , i really think it's a great idea and they have nothing to loose this way!
I would love negative perks and 5 perk slots for more unique matches.
Remember when the devs pretended to rework the meta
The problem is that killer is waaaaay more perk reliant than survivor side.
What’s up Choy
Healing n’ chilln
I like the idea, but the math behind it, and properly assessing each perk/addon's value will go terribly wrong with the devs we have
I like the idea of a currency system but I don't really think I agree with the version you described. VHS had a really nice and simple system that I would prefer. It encouraged players to take perks from their respective characters and gameplay style. Also I really don't agree that SWF should be receiving less points for playing with friends. Yes SWF is stronger, but you absolutely cannot discourage playing with your friends in any way.
I also think that this really wouldn't solve the problem of meta builds. People who don't want to experiment, wont experiment regardless of the options available. If the build is made invalid with a point change, they would just move to the next closest thing, like you mentioned its already done in the live version of DBD after updates.
Additionally I really don't have any hope that BHVR would respond any faster to perk changes with a currency system because BHVR is very slow with even the simplest of things. Plus I think it would be more boring than actually changing the perks. Personally I just want more perk updates and more fun perks that maybe aren't the strongest, like diversion .
If this change would "nerf strong killers" It would just as much buff weak ones. Which I also don't think this would do. I think my only concern is that BHVR would use this system to be lazy and not further buff or nerf things that should be regardless of the situation.
Didn’t you hear according to the devs freddy has the highest kill rate overall so he must be the strongest killer
as a nurse main, I love this idea!
Honestly this sounds really great but i feel there are some areas that are a bit more complicated such as if its based on perks popularity would WoO be considered strong or weak because its really popular but is more focused for newer survivors or twins who are the lowest picked killer but seen as really powerful in high mmr so would theres be high to support new players playing them or low becasue similar to nurse they have a higher kill rate. Not dunping on your idea just some problems i can see. Great vid btw