Hidden MMR Fully Explained + Shadow Nerf to SWF
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- Опубликовано: 14 июл 2024
- Follow me on Twitch: / theonlychoy
Live 5 Days a week from Ayrun's abandoned RV
In this Dead by Daylight video we'll do a deep dive into how exactly MMR is working in 2023. We'll also cover a SWF conspiracy theory regarding solo queue and lastly discuss why SBMM failed in DBD.
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Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:38 Grade Ranks
01:22 How MMR Works
05:05 Killer MMR
06:05 Survivor MMR
06:23 Shadow Nerf to SWF
09:05 Why SBMM Failed
#dbd 
Игры
Never get why all games decide to go this route rather than being transparent so we can have meaningful ranks in games
Because its not meant to be fun
Its meant to retain players
Lots of psychological research has been done so players stay longer and spend more money
@@juicedup14 No way really? no wonder I'm hooked lmao
@@Me-Apesta-El-Rifle yeah, it took me a while to realize sometimes i was logging on even though i didn't look forward to playing.
Because games these days are more about manipulating you into playing them as opposed to be something you're excitedly turning on. That's what all the urgency around the Rift is. They put cosmetics in there that are temporary to make you feel as if you're missing out so you feel like you need to play.
BHVR has their hand in a lot of these grubby tactics.
Only the 10% of players has an aweful time, casuals have way more fun playing, just make a new Account and play bad.
For me, SBMM ruined killer. I used to enjoy it, but now I can barely ever bring myself to ready up as killer, because the games end up being so tiring and stressful. Even when they turn out not to be sweaty and the survivors are chill, I have it in my head that it’s going to be a tiring game, so I just don’t bother playing. It’s quite sad, because I love killer
That’s how I feel. Or - I’ll admit it- I’ll launch it , load into a map, remember how painful this is gonna be to play, remember I’m playing a video game and should be doing it to have fun, and disconnect and get on something else
No it didnt ruin anything.I still win 9/10 games in high MMR. Yes games are not easy but still winnable. Also this is better if you want to improve as killer.If you are matched vs easy players u will not improve
@@LUCASDBD That's not what he's saying.
I spent an entire evening dedicated solely to afk killer matches on my main. Doesn't matter if I get banned because at that point I don't even want to play anymore.
From now on I will smurf and I refuse to kill more than 2 people. 8 hooks and I'm good.
I would rather 'lose' vs a team I had good chases and fun with instead of getting bullied while knowing that I couldn't get a kill if I sold my kidney for it.
@@LUCASDBD that wasnt the point, the point is that killer was much more chill and i can back him/her up on that because they were 100x more chill in the old system, but now even if you win as killer its not fun anymore because you cant try out fun builds and play weak killers casually because everyone expects the best so they bring he best
MMR makes winning as a killer more of a punishment as you will start to see more swf's and any mistake you make will be rubbed in your face.
They pitch the system as making balanced and fun matches for everyone.
What they actually want is to throw all the most dedicated players into matchmaking hell. This quarantines them from the casual cash cows the devs want to milk as much as possible before they get bored and move on to another game.
@@Honah13 That's the most accurate description of bhvr's business model to date and probably not far from the truth lol
@@Honah13 I'm glad other people are smart enough to see this bullshit.. SBMM in modern games is not meant to increase the dedicated player-base's experience and balance fairly, its meant to isolate the top percentile players long enough so that the casual goldfish get to swim in the pond too to be sucked dry of their $ & time
Once they get better at these games and they've invested their $ they get chucked into the bottom bin with the rest of the top percentile players to be treated as second-class citizens. They're no longer catered to because they're no longer the target audience and they're no longer prone to the shady MTX/FOMO practices that a new inexperienced player is
You could make this argument for ANY game though. MMR is a flawed system, but its pretty much all we got.
But that's just a testament of your skill. You shouldn't be allowed to stomp baby survivors either. You climb the latter until you reach an MMR with swf's. Then you can either choose to sweat and stay competitive or play casually and lose until your MMR drops to a level of survivors that match your preferences. Deciding to feel stressed is really the players choice.
The main issue with MMR in my opinion is not just this game but every game that uses it. To me, it is much more enjoyable to play 10 matches where some are sweaty and some are "chill" compared to 10 matches where every single one is sweaty.
Yeah this is where a comp mode would work. if you wanna be sweaty go to comp, if you wanna chill go play the normal mode.
@@Timely7 that would be nice
The SBMM was a bad move to be sure, and we should go back to the much more complete emblem system as it was a closer representation of skill in multiple areas of game play. BUT The real issue was the perk shake up.
It was no secret that perks were used as band-aid fixes for broken aspects of the game. When you remove perks for seeing heavy use without asking, "Why are these perks used in nearly every match?" You're going to end up breaking something. They pulled all the band-aids without curing the underlying issues, and the game has suffered for it.
said it perfectly thank you
imagine you band aid tunneling woth a perk, then remove the perk and wonder why 90% of games is a tunnel or gen rush situation for killer.
Atleast they added borrowed time as basekit
@@nsreturn1365 Because the perk can be abused nearly as much as tunneling. The issue is their core game has problems. And perks can't hide this face
The thing I hate the most is the lack of transparency. They are intentionally withholding information from the community so the community doesn't create a discussion around whether or not it's a good system. You don't know if the system is good or not if they tell you NOTHING about how it works as well as where you are at in their MMR.
The problem with the current MMR system, especially for survivor, is there’s little to no incentive to care about your teammates. People may not go for risky saves because it could result in their death and they’d lose MMR. Then you get the scrubs who urban evasion around the map and hide the second they hear a heartbeat. The thing that’s the most infuriating is that they’ll make it out 90% of the time because why wouldn’t they, meanwhile the 3 other people who looped the killer for like 2 minutes each get punished.
I know this has become a problem because BHVR has started banning survivors who bring the killer to their immersed teammates.
That's why the pip system was so much better it encouraged players to go for saves and take chases.
The way it was worded in the update made it really seem like being the only death on a 3 man out would still gain mmr
@@TheOnlyChoy What? BHVR will seriously ban players for that? Clown world
@@Justmonika6969 it was about time, tho. I'm sick of doing everything, on solo q, and get equally killed bc of a f*** teammate who tagged along with the killer and sold me out 🙄😒
i can confirm that for me as a 80/20 killer/survivor player. the fact you dont know what you are walking into makes you want to always bring the strongest just in case, making the games feel awful for the soloQ players.
this is why i like playing nemmy, capable of running less popular perks because noise notification=zombie bait for gen control, no need to kick a thousand gens with the most meta killer build atm
tbh its the same surv side. im a soloq surv main and i always worry about both how trash my team most likely is and how strong i know the killers build will be
This, plus the incredible difference between matches. I don't get any middle ground games where both sides work quite hard but it's not a total sweat fest.
As a killer I seem to either get stomped by survivor teams or absolutely destroy them and neither game is fun to play.
This is part of why I like IDV. you can see every character that the survs bring
Whenever I have four other friends and we go custom games, we have way more fun than almost ever in actual queue.
I'm a newer player, I never experienced ranks from before. MMR/SBMM is all I know. And solo queue is pain.
that's mostly because despite community (and by now developer) opinion DBD is at heart a party game. Sitting in voice with 4 friends and memeing about, having a laugh when the friend playing mayers jumpscares someone around a corner or what not is where this game shines.
Sweatlord mc sweatfest over yonder however is how this game stops beeing fun and goes hard into the "stressful and toxic work enviroment" area no one wants to be in without a payraise.
@@XenomorphsWrath I generally do enjoy the game, and sometimes it's great to work through a match, against all odds! The problem for me is that the winning strat for killers is inherently unfun, and that winning is made into such a big deal.
@@ihmislehma yeah the winning strat for killer is to tunnel and camp one survivor out as quickly as possible. Still it's possible to win most games by playing fairly but that is handicapping yourself as killer and it's not possible to win every game that way.
@@pena380 I kinda hate that it is so, but I realize balancing 3v1 into a winnable but not abuseable situation is hard.
It's just so annoying because I'm an average survivor at best, at least at looping. I'd love to feel like I can go open chests, eat bones, goof around, but there's always the risk I cause the killer to snowball.
@ihmislehma killer can be fun if you know how to doge lobbys but sometimes it's not worth it sometimes I sit 30mims for 1 match
05:21 this is why I get batshit crazy survivors on killers I don't use that often. I play a lot of Huntress and Wesker, so I don't mind facing skilled survivors but when I play killers like Pyramid head, Pinhead and Nurse, I get rekt by the survivors bc I am facing people with 4-5k+... My nurse,pyramid and pinhead are not even p1 yet... MMR is a joke.
they don`t play their own game, so they think a high mmr myers is gonna play huntress, trickster or nurse just as well... amazing
I thought mmr was killer specific? Like each killer had their own
yes but all your killers have mmr that are near each other so ur nurse cant be 1200 mmr and clown be 0 if ur nurse is 1200 then clown will default be 800 or smth@@sheaacorn8967
The issue is that every match is an arms race. Whoever brought more firepower usually dominates.
I think if we are gonna keep a system that chooses to keep the games competitive there should be a higher reward. There isn't much to strive for other than blood points.
I think if they want to make it competitive, they should balance the game. Either way, no one but then wants to make it competitive.
@@fran6329 unfortunately they can't balanced an assymetrical game, it will never get balanced
@@Liara_Tsoni2275 i know it will never be, but that doesnt mean it could be better balanced right now
Variety is the key. Getting dominated ain't so bad if you get to dominate in the next game.
Fancy seeing you here!
It's kinda good cuz you can learn faster which movement survivors mostly use and you can always try to overtake them. i had an experience when a man with 11k hrs was just sitting with guys on discord and they were just talking about killer's dead mom and nothing tactical, so, you don't have to fear your mistakes, you gotta love them to get better if you want ofc.
Average DBD Player: How does MMR work?
Nicest BHVR hater: It doesn't
I'm a Blight main. I tried to do my daily with twins and got absolutely stomped by a 4 man SWF with insane perks and abusable map offerings. Now i know my Blight MMR gain also impacts other killers, great, now i will have fun with Trapper dailys wohooo!
having this problem as new-ish player too. stuck to one killer for 3 months to get good at the game and learn it well. but now I can't try out any other killer in the roster since I get destroyed before I even fully figure out their power.
Its not the survivors faults? All they did was play with their friends and bring perks to fix issues BHVR wont fit themselves
@@maybeitsmen Please understand, i'm not critiqing the survivors here, im critiqing BHVR inability to make an enjoyable experience as killer with MMR. Also learning the new abilities takes time, ranking up the MMR then makes it even more frustrating when you face against strong teams you should only be facing with your strongest killers.
@@maybeitsmen What i also didn't mention is that it was a spanish SWF who then tbagged me and called me a faggot and other homophobic + racial slurs for no reason.
@@Madickus That's just the game. You lose you get called a baby killer and shit, you win and you're called sweater and trash. I am a blight main myself and I mostly use aura reading perks (with shadowborn) bc pain res doesn't help me with gens at all and I refuse to play full meta.
SBMM has made the game worse in my eyes. I used to be able to run a Varity of perks for fun and still feel like I had a chance where now I feel I am shoehorned into the same 4-8 perks on both sides of the game.
I relate. Games with sweaty killers cannot be won without Dead Hard, at least 2 of the teammates have to have it in order to escape. Adrenaline is another essential with a sweaty killer, as well as Windows of Opportunity or Off The Record. Having to make specific perks in order to counter terrible abuses of game mechanics (camping & tunneling), and then locking them behind a paywall is scummy.
Simple solution: make a separate ranked playlist for players that want to sweat with sbmm, and have no sbmm in pubs
That wont work with some insane stipulations being placed on the casual mode. Otherwise there is nothing stopping the use of meta builds and playstyles in both the ranked and casual mode. And you must know that people will do that.
As someone who plays solo que 99% of the time, SBMM breaks my heart :'( I feel like I'm just stuck in a loop to be stuck in the low MMR with people who *are* new to the game, and don't know to go for unhooks, and heal and stuff, work on gens, etc, and I just constantly die, no matter how well I play. Like I have 4k ish hours in the game, but if you were to go just for my death rate, you wouldn't know it because how often I just get left to die on my first hook while my whole team is hiding in a corner expecting the gens to just pop on their own.
This is exactly how I feel.
I’d save u 😂
You have 4k hours and you get teammates like that? That stinks I’m sorry. I started playing 3 months ago and my lobbies are with pretty good players, not comp but all running meta builds/teamwork gens and killer knowledge. These are my solo queue lobbies (I have swf’s as well and every match is stressful..) I have maybe 500ish hours. The solo queue killers also are all running meta builds/add-ons but still chase in solo queue bc they aren’t that good. I kill myself on purpose when the gates open because I want those easier lobbies where the killer doesn’t bounce after I greed a pallet for 30 seconds and get the stun and they need to be efficient. I happily give them the sacrifice as opposed to a sweaty 3 gen skull merchant knight meta killer match that last the equivalent of 2-3 regular matches yet only gives me 50% of the blood points by then end of it and 0% fun.
DUDE SAME!! im starting to get rly pissed off now. I get put with Dwight’s that hide in locker the WHOLE game and don’t even do gens, and Megs that don’t heal you and will just run around the map for the whole game. you know what rly pisses me off when getting put with people like this? It’s when they leave you to die on first hook, like they just let you get to second hook cuz they’re either too scared to come and save you or they just don’t want to. it sucks man!! i just wanna get put with good survivors so that i can actually enjoy the game
same man this system sucks, i dont wanna be matched with players who dont even do gens, dont even last in chases longer than 20 secs. i literally have to do atleast 2-3 gens by myself if i wanna win a match and also loop the killer for 1-2 mins while my teammates are near me hiding behind a wall ( they must be tryna flashlight save ) they dont have flashlights or flashbangs, idk what they upto
One day BHVR will look back on their dbd journey and realise what it could have been.
No they won't
Nah… they’ll think “we’ve done a pretty good job so far.”
it is one of those things where because there is not enough competition they think they are doing great. its sad really because i feel DBD could have been way bigger then it is simply by changing some things, also i dont buy the whole spegetti code they keep saying when they dont feel like spending time on fixing something
@@idkfa1000000 it really is ass coding plus the lack of trying. The perfect way to ruin something that had a vision.
@@idkfa1000000 Bigger is actually a small word. The licenses itself with everything that can be added as gamemodes, skins, sidequests, turneys, leaderboards, .. Its endless
I started playing in 2018 when rank colors matched with the same colors and players lost 10 ranks every reset. In my opinion, that was the best system for DbD. It was simple and player knew their rank so they could plan their build accordingly. The system was far from perfect (rank manipulation was incredibly easy) but it was straight forward and transparent. If BHVR never tried to do MMR and focused on improving the Emblem/Rank system I am sure DbD would be in a much more positive place than it is today. Only the most die hard of fans and addicts are staying to play DbD in 2023.
When a teammate DCs or selfkills on hook you know the game is over already. The pip system doesnt give a f*ck and will just give you a -1. I'm guessing the mmr system doesnt care either. I find it really difficult to increase mmr in soloq with the big amount of DCs and selfkills happening in soloq. I feel the lower the mmr, the higher the chance of having teammates giving up at 5 gens. Which then makes you most likely lose the game and lose mmr and therefore increasing the chance of having these type of teammates. Stuck in this endless loop. Thats what elo hell is to me.
why is it when u need that final pip someone dc's at the start and u end up minus 1!!
Before SBMM was added one thing I used to enjoy doing a lot was mess around with less stronger perks and even ones with weird effects and get a kick out of getting a use out of them. I never felt a need to use strong perks cause other people weren't using the strongest either. I did this as a killer mainly. Once MMR starting ramping up that changed, if i still wanted to win and get bloodpoints i couldnt mess around with weak perks anymore and i felt less fun as a result as using the strong perks wasnt as interesting and this ened up driving me from the game recently
The system is a bit of a mess, with the pendulum swinging between super sweaty matches and far less capable teams of survivors that it's left me wanting to play killer less and less. I don't always want to play full-pelt and neither do I enjoy obliterating the opposing team when I'm barely a few minutes into the match.
Last night alone I had 2 sweaty matches as Spirit & Clown against SWFs with map offerings and flashlight loadouts. Thing is, I haven't touched Spirit in months, but these are the primary matchups I face as her even now. After 2 tough games where I prevailed, I queued up as Bight, another killer I've not touched in a longer time and went up against a team of what I soon found out felt like pretty new players and the entire team broke like a twig within a few minutes. I dialled it back but I still felt bad, with most of the survivors just wanting me to kill them quickly so they could move onto the next match. Not everybody wants to sit around doing mercy-gens if the killer gets a n early game stomp, understandable.
Two different extremes. The first, the sweaty matches, sometimes I'm in the mood for them, but not always, but as killer, you sort of carry that experience to the next match and inadvertently unleash a blitzkrieg on 4 unsuspecting solo players and its just no fun for anyone. While I know the information would be prone to being abused, sometimes I wish I could see if I am about to go up against SWF/solo players before the match, and could go into the match in a softer fashion (though not every killer would be so forgiving I guess).
Either way, I personally, have found myself playing survivor far more recently as I find it far less stressful, even against a sweaty killer.
I get the same thing on the same killer, from game to game. One game on Myers they're just finishing gens while I stand in the open stalking them, the next game I barely see any survivors because they scatter like roaches as soon as they glimpse me and know how and where to hide
One thing I believe people dissociate from MMR is what builds and offerings people bring in. I hear a lot of: I played the most sweaty match with full builds, strong offerings and so forth. You never hear someone say: man that killer brought in shadowborn and lightborn and absolutely sweated their ass off and got the 4k. With the current meta we have, if you choose to run meta, it is beyond strong at the moment. Its almost night and day... at the same time, so many games we play people don't even bother to run add-ons/equipment or never bring in offerings and those games are more casual. But, the fact that you can turn this game into a grind by simply switching up a few perks I think gets lost in the MMR debate. Dead Hard and OTR or Call of Brine/Eruption is going to massively help you win VS something like No Mither selfcare or Shadowborn lightborn.
They need a bronze to ultra diamond style of ranking if they are gunna go the sbmm route I've been in and out of mmr hell and the difference is staggering it took MONTHS of losses before I found myself playing winnable matches and those matches have been super easy I am on like a 40 winstreak as ghostface where last week I couldn't keep the game going longer than 3 minutes bhvr really should have focused on balance before trying to implement a competitive style of play
for real one day i was playing as nurse having alot of fun letting people have a good time but in the end killing them all got off for the night had a great day, next day i struggled to even hit anyone and that consisted for a solid week i just could do anything i changed killers i changed up how i was playing i tried being sweaty af and i just struggled so much i quit for a week or so went and played other games and came back to having a decent time not over in minutes but not too easy, fast forward to now im playing as pig to get achievements and everyone's dead within 3 mins i had 3 separate games yesterday where people were literal bots, running in straight lines not looking behind them working on gens and i could walk right up to them and pick them off the gen they wouldn't try to run this could be at the very beginning of the game
@@T3Houdini yea the thing is about that wether your winning or losing against the weeks of frustrating games your learning wether you do on purpose or not so you play against comp players for a week or 2 take a break and come back to average dbd players and compared to what you've dealt with the average might as well be babies
I don't understand separate MMR for killers if getting your rating to 1600 boosts every killer you own to 1200. I miss being able to swap killers in the lobby.
Makes sense that killers should camp and tunnel for the 3k & 4k to get a higher mmr.
Also, makes sense for solo q players to screw over their teammates to escape through the exit gate as much as possible to get a higher mmr.
SMH 🤦♀️
It's a weird conundrum because I think a lot people just want to win but knowing that each win comes with higher MMR makes it bittersweet.
This is the most bizarre aspect of this game that I've heard many times... why on earth do people play to win at all cost to simply increase their MMR? Why and what is the point of doing that? You don't get anything for doing this... I load up a game of DBD to run fun perks, have a few chases, and see what happens, not to sweat my ass off for a pointless escape that does nothing for me. Such a strange mindset in this game... you don't even know what your MMR is... IDK.
"Tunneling" is just as stupid a term as "gen rushing". It's the killer's goal to get survivors out, it's the survivor's goal to complete gens fast. It is insanely easy to counter with Off the Record, if you don't bring that out of pure greed for other perks, blame yourself. Camping before the endgame is almost always a self-destructive decision unless the survivor's don't punish it.
@@Flotter-Flo You didn't understand the comment and took it personaly
@@muysli.y1855 You don't understand the game and play the victim after getting cooked by killers instead of improving.
I'm a solo q player and most of the time I feel like I'm in sbmm purgatory. I get teammates that at least to me act like they're brand new to the game. For example. Hiding behind walls against a scratched mirror myers. Do not know how to run away and use tiles. Get downed immediately and either dc or take chances off hook. Must hide in corner of map to heal them, and all sorts of other beginner "this game is scary" things. I put in a lot of work. Sometimes I'm the only one who gets gens done, and killers give up chasing me. Yet I don't escape these matches because all of my team either dies or are so terrified they hide until everyone is dead. I've been playing this game since summer bbq event and being stuck in this purgatory is a nightmare. I feel the only way out is to swf with at least one other because if I play matches with my siblings, we escape most of the time.
Im Ash 4 on both killer and survivor. Literally never pipped or maybe pipped once months prior. Last time I played, two of the survivors i played against were red ranks. I cant believe how messed up the system needs to be for a literal top 100℅ killer to be matched with red ranks.
Regarding the grade ranking, I think it's hilarious how trivial it was for me to hit iri1 in my first month of play, but now it's a struggle and hard grind every month, presumably because I'm stuck at the bottom of one of the mmr brackets, which is hella annoying because my escape rate in the last 220ish games has been 30%.
Just wild how devs can continue to not listen to the players and still keep going like everything is fine.
The only reason companies like this keep skating by disaster is because they have an army of shills that will dickride it and shield it from criticism no matter how bad it gets
They never say anything negative/honest about the game and they keep tossing money at it, as long as that’s the case BHVR won’t change
@@AyJayStyles Yeah most complaints I see are regarding the most asinine things. The only people affected by the MMR in a significant way are the people who get stuck at the top. I feel bad for streamers who got known doing killer streaks. I couldn't imagine playing this game as a job.
Not sure why dbd is so against adding a unranked mode. Some times people just don’t want to worry about mmr just have fun with other players
I play with my wife and we are both casual and hate when we play against extreme sweaty killers. We don't have the time to play 80 hours a week. I wish there was a way for casuals to play casuals and sweaty to play sweaty
As a solo queue player this is extremely useful to understand. I almost ALWAYS play exclusively solo queue when playing survivor. (About 99.9% of the time).
I always hate going against killers that have less experience with the game. Now I understand why this is. It’s because I value saving teammates and usually the players in the match are not as good as I am so I die. It’s a heavy team game after all.
I could play for sneaky exit gate escapes but that’s no fun.
100% should have had a SBMM ranked mode separate from casual.
And you can SEE your rank and how close you are to higher ranks, AND, mmr should be based on your four medals you have at the end of the game, and how high they are.
When they didn’t have SBMM it was insanely fun, you could get a sweat, or you could get a chill game. It was way more fun.
I don’t get why they add SBMM in a party game, and then balance the way they did, based on escapes solely through exit gates, makes survivors be selfish which never works, and killers typically win a lot bc of that, then when they start getting higher mmr as killer, they play SWFS nonstop and any small error they make just dumps in them for it, making their game less fun. It’s a shadow nerf to SWFs too, but just belive that should be that way bc if you do join up and have comms, you 100% are more likely to escape A LOT, so you shouldn’t be getting so much mmr for those. Again, it really should be based on medals, and if you are in a SWF, lessen amount of mmr you can get and make that cap smaller the more friends you play with.
As a casual solo suvivor, DBD can be quite rough.. escape rate is low imo. One day I play 8-10 matches and get camped, tunneled and just overall stomped in all of them. Next day I maybe escape 3 times and loose the rest. I don't mind loosing as long as I escape once in awhile. Safe to say I play DBD more in moderation these days as it can be pretty depressing at times.
wait... they don't base it on your rank or your performance in the 4 categories? ONLY kills and escapes?!? why? they have so many other metrics to base skilled game-play off of and this just railroads players into a sweaty mindset
since around Dec 10th my swf has had lose after lose and that is just not normal at all for us, killers are taking us out in only 2 min at 5 gens now. We have no idea what has changed.
that explains a lot. my survivor mmr is clearly below 1600. but my killer is clearly above 1600 because no matter how many fucking games i lose i get the same tryhard sweaty shit almost every game.
"hey you did not escape this trial for whatever reason, let me group you up with even worse players, that'll teach you"
If it's not utter idiocy its intentional.
the rank system was so much better and the matches were 10x more enjoyable and also more balanced in solo queue.
I love how no one wanted this, everyone was having a bad time with SBMM when it initially was added, but it was implemented anyway
Before mmr, people were crying about constantly being matched against red rank survs/killers. So, I don't think devs are the only responsible for this outcome.
@@aydn.s7404 the old matchmaking was fucking terrible, behavior just didn’t do the right thing to fix it
@@iheartblock3792 It wasn't bad. It was unfinished. Emblem system gave you points according to how much you contribute to the match but they never tried to tune it accordingly
And also it was too easy to gain irisdescent emblems on survivor. They never adressed it
The old ranking system to determine matches was also exploitable, maybe even more so, as if you brought in a new rank player, say 20-12, while every other player in the SWF was rank 1, the game would more often try to match you with ranks being around 6-9. This would cause several players to just stop playing due to this stupid system and would have been easily fixed if they just made it match by with only the highest rank player in the SWF. You have a rank 1, bam, you getting rank 1-4 killers.
I got the game pretty much immediately after the MMR system was implemented, and since then it's become my main game I play every single day and I've amassed over 1.5k hours in that time. I have no frame of reference for what the game was like before the MMR change. I mostly play killer. My mains are Demogorgon, Pinhead, and Sadako, with a fair bit of Oni, Freddy, Myers, and Wesker thrown in.
My perspective is that for killer at least, I don't really see any problem with how the game is currently working. It is the game I fell in love with, after all. In fact some of my most unfun matches were during the MMR experiment where they allowed for much more unbalanced games. I was beating up on people so far below my skill level that even pumping the brakes hard, I still felt like I was bullying them.
I 2k or better the majority of my matches without using meta builds or top tier killers. I usually only take 1, maybe 2 regression perks, and they're only regression perks I feel like I need to "earn" to use (Pain Res, Jolt, Pop, etc) because the genkick meta feels too cheesy and unsatisfying to me.
I have more fun with the game when I feel like I have to try and I have to assume the survivors are going to be good until I'm proven otherwise.
For survivor, yes I rarely escape because I play almost exclusively soloQ, but I do feel like the killers I go up against are around my skill level. Sometimes they're better and sometimes they're worse. I chalk the unpleasant soloQ experience up to the uncoordinated nature of soloQ.
Im not sure if this is because of the MMR, but has anyone else had the problem where you die like 3 times in solo queue, then you get an afk doctor who’s is just spamming their power.
Update: This information breaks dbd. It is so easy to manipulate this that you don't even have to really try.
This information just created a new meta, no longer is it about perks, it is about efficiency of hitting survivors and not killing them.
Run wraith or any killer with insidious, hit survivors till they relent, wait, repeat, and when you want the game to end go in a corner, use insidious and let the survivors all leave.
This is objectively the best bp farm in the game now, because consistency. After enough time passes you only play complete amateurs quickly.
This information prolly should've stayed secret.
At the very least I would like to see my mmr, or an indicator of it. I can't stand having a magic number that works behind the scenes which dictates who I go against/get paired with, when almost any other game has a visible rank.
Another tinfoil hat conspiracy of mine are that the MMR system was also designed to somewhat cater to newer players.
If new players never/rarely encounter DLC Killer with OP DLC Perks (as well as bringing their more experienced friend along), they're more likely to escape and want to come back and play from the positive experience.
It’s not what happens you know, I was watching a CocoanutRTS video of watching XQC play killer. He would 4 k one game and the next get destroyed by a whole friend bully squad.
Not balanced
I remember SBMM was largely initially introduced because red ranks were too ambiguous and could include people with thousands of hours to people with less than a hundred. But this is still fully possible with SBMM do to how the matchmaking pool works. If anything, it’s more likely to happen now
Well, that is less likely to happen, before SBMM, I saw people with 50 hours to 150 hours every other game, after SBMM, I've rarely seen people with less than 500 hours, and if I do, they are most likely on a second or third account.
Yet, the thing was, I could run any random build with any logic on a killer, have 1 super sweaty match where I barely won or just lost, and I know 1-2 matches later, I would be able to use that build in a very satisfying way. Nowadays, if I want to go for a niche build like that, I would need 10-20 matches for the matchmaking to properly align.
What they could have done instead, was add a ranked matchmaking that works the way SBMM works that was seperate. It would give people who love to sweat things out, even if that accounts for just 5% of the playerbase, a place to sweat against players who also want to sweat. Back in the day, this meant "turn cross-play off", and you would need to sweat 5x as hard as normal games just to stand a chance. Nowadays, there is no seperation. And BHVR is like "you can play however you want", but what if me using fun to play builds made me win games to a point where I can no longer use those builds? Because if I bring those builds, I would most definitely lose most the time and barely have fun, but my MMR reduction is also reduced because I've went over the cap. So I win enough games to stay inside the cap with those builds.
This happens to me all the time. My prestige 1 killers going up against prestige 40 survivors. I always wonder of they're more or less salty because a killer with unleveled perks beat them. Even though I'm in iri 1 I have no idea what my MMR actually is. One game is against a bunch of survivors with unleveled perks, the next game they all have 4 leveled teachables each
@@BouncingTribbles I’ve got about a thousand hours and I’ve gone against a survivor with 10000 hours, it’s pretty nutty
personally i used to play dbd every single day for hours on the old system and i would find mostly at least decent survivors in red ranks (i was rank 1 most seasons) only after like a couple games i would get green and purple ranks but then it was back to decent to good red rank players but was still really fun, could just be my experience maybe i was lucky but thats how it was for me
Since a couple months by now I've been playing on a smurf account with a friend of mine. We bought the game and decided to play without spending a single cent: prestiged to level 3 all free survivors, then started buying perks from shrine. We've been purposely escaping only by hatch when one of us dies or plays in his main account. But... why? Because we're tired of the same bullsh*t every now and then: either we lose because random dudes don't give a sh*t or we lose to a sweaty full meta killer; that is until we join in a few friends or we just get killers that are bad enough for us to stomp them by ourselves, without needing to rely on randoms.
By playing on smurf accounts we got to conclude that the game's more fun not only for us but for killers as well because they typically don't lose and we never take it too seriously because we're indeed used to losing every match.
This sounds so stupid but it's actually real.
Honestly making a one kill game a win would help with killer moral and make killers less likely to just use the worst load outs or killers for the dub
SBMM is a failure is most games. I can’t think of one SBMM system that seemed fair and I enjoyed. At least dbd’s system makes alright matches for me most of the time.
SBMM in gaming overall is equivalent to what the Covenant in Halo call Master Chief 117. (Demon)
sbmm ruins every game it touches because it just doesn't work, one game I will get 4 completely new players or just super chill players, and the very next games I get 4 crutch perk swf's, they should just go back to the emblem system and improve on that system, it was so much more enjoyable
I was wondering why when I try a new killer I have never played before I got the sweatiest of sweaty survivors, that explains it lol
Yeah, the more you win for you sure get matched with better survs, however I'm a casual player and want to have fun not sweat, who I play against then (RIP GHOSTIE)
Very good explanations and good content, keep going Choy 🤘✌
As someone with a lot of experience in this game (especially as billy and huntress), if you’re a high mmr killer just learn nurse or blight. Most other killers in this game aren’t strong enough to deal with the crap map rng and sweaty matchmaking unless you play as nasty as possible on top of running slowdowns. At least with nurse and blight if you play very well you can win the majority of your matches without playing super sweaty, of which I can’t say the same for other killers. And don’t be concerned with getting hate for playing nurse or blight either, cause I promise you’ll get just as much hate for playing a lower tier killer in a way that survivors don’t like.
Been playing this game for two years now and it is without a doubt the most unfun it has ever been. Solo Q is hell and the new HUD system won't do much other than make me more pissed off at fellow survivors doing nothing and now I can see it. Every match is a sweat fest and most of the time someone hook suicides or DC's and the killers never ever let up,,, ever.
I’m a new player, having started a week ago. I currently only play killer and my first week on the game was so solid. Some games I killed only 1 survivor, the other it would be all 4. It felt super balanced. In the last couple days though I’ve noticed the ranks of survivors I’m now being put against are far higher than mine. I’m level 9 not prestige’s and I can’t find a lobby without at least two people prestige’s twice or higher. In fact rarely get a game where I see a person not prestiged. So my lobbies are now super one sided and I’m struggling to even secure 1 survivor kill. It feels punishing to have tried to learn the game.
Something doesn't add up, I'm brand new and getting matched with asshat p100 survivors making it a completely terrible experience nearly every match.
I think the emblem matchmaking system has a lot of untapped potential. If BHVR doesn't refine it then I hope other games try to use it in the future.
You could expect some level of competency from the red rank players since you consistently have to do well in at least 2 categories to climb. With MMR I don't know what to expect anymore?
I think the knowledge of SBMM is what makes the game worse. By default people want to be #1 so knowing there is a system tracking that makes people play in some of what people consider "sweaty". But because they want to feel the rank ego people play more seriously everytime. I've gotten so many responses being "at this MMR you have to play like this." It's really weird. I feel there are too many varibles to narrow this game skill to a single number to pair people.
I stomped a team with Wraith on RPD so badly the other day that I had them all on death hook before a single gen was popped. I ended up farming the rest of the match with them and letting them go 😂
is there a way to see your sbmm? in the game files or anything? or is there a site that can track it like the dbd player stats tracker?
honestly if I didn't know about mmr I would play a ton more but because I know im going to go against a sweaty team. I play wayy less because i just don't have the energy to do another sweaty match. If I use god addons and destroy survivors im going to be scared of losing if I queue up with regular yellow/brown addons so I just dont touch that killer for a week or so and that process repeats for every killer I have so killer becomes boring and having to play soloq on survivor is terrible without the upcoming icons so I just play a diffrent game. mmr made dbd for me so boring and playing 2 or 3 sweaty games a day drains me so much.
After one month I could tell that sbmm/mmr made the game worse. After a year I’m both happy as well as sad to say that I was right.
survivor is still fun when you get the killers who think they're hot shit with 4 slowdown then you loop them for 5 minutes
I personally enjoy the game much more as a party game, where I don't take seriously my match result. I don't play often enough to really build up skill, so I'm probably pretty low on the invisible ladder, except maybe for a couple of killers with whom I'm average.
However, I find it much easier to enjoy the game with this mindset as killer, as it's easier for me to set the tone of the game. Survivors generally see me playing relaxed and don't sweat too hard in return. It's easy for me to see a team that can steamroll me and think "Mmr blooper ? Let's not take this one to heart" and still have a nice time. I can also let last survivor get hatch as well to prevent my invisible number from growing quicker than I can handle, and give myself time to grow skill organically.
As survivor, even with a ridiculous escape rate, I somehow still get matched with some pretty good killers regularly (far from high mmr, but outside my skill level for sure) and there's no way as survivor to shift the mood of the game to something relaxed without letting your team down.
After patch 6.1.0 I find it hard to even play the game anymore (speaking as a survivor main, I never enjoyed killer too much). Getting through the rifts feels like a chore and I barely manage to finish them on time. I went from playing 1700hr a year to only 320hr in 2022. That, coupled with SBMM which already made things worse is why I don’t enjoy the game anymore. I play once every one to two weeks for a couple matches and that’s about it. I honestly miss good old 2020 DbD esp pre-Blight. Those were simpler times. I miss getting tunneled to death by a nurse just for cleansing her ruin.
Killer mmr would explain why I just started playing knight and I keep being pitted against players who are gen Jocks or ultra sweats, usually when I'm in a high mmr matching using pig since she's my main. That means I'm forced to play sweaty with every killer I play which is insanely lame.
in my experience mmr works fine for average casual players, but is garbage for bad players and especially trash for very good players
I sent them an email bitching about me being put with survivors with no perks or experience when I've previously hit iri. They said it could be because low levels put me as "helpful" in the report bracket. So needless to say I utilize the no DC penalty when camped so it doesn't go higher 😆😆😆😆
i remember going against a survivor saying that the SBMM doesnt exist because you cant check it like other games. perhaps i should send this to them
Congratulations on another great video upload. Like commented and shared
SBMM was probably the worst thing they've ever added next to dedicated servers.
Wow, I knew it. I was always like "Bruh I rarely ever play trapper, there is no way in hell I have made my MMR higher but why are my trapper games sweaty like I am playing Huntress or Nurse" when I would play often.
"unalive by daylight", maybe youtube will spare you with that one
Does bleed outs count as a kill in MMR gaining/losing? Because in the rift challenges if you bleed out someone it does not count as a resultative "kill by any means".
Thanks for explaining. I wish there was a more relaxed mode free of MMR where SWF aren't allowed
Everytime its suggested, the counterargunent is "it'll split the playerbase"
Which makes me think "good?" Like let the ppl who want relaxed matches have fun elsewhere
Sometimes I feel like the devs WANT this game to be competitive so bad. Idk why, maybe because they hope it picks up for really big tournaments and brings more money?
I am glad someone finally made a video about this because I keep telling people it exist when people claim it doesn’t. Edit: mmr made it worse. Kills made it worse. Everyone is more competitive. Just today, I saw a match of survivors finishing gens in 3m50sec .. no gen perks nor items used. It is stressful and as you said, as a killer .. I load in and I can’t risk making a mistake or extending chases because gens fly. Most games are 1 kill at 1 gen left or fight over the exit gate which is stressful. It feels like “mission impossible” then as you said once in awhile you get a chill game and you don’t realize it until you see you are 2 death hook and 4 gen left .. you slow down to go for hooks and then they hide and you lose .. 😂. Wth! This game is impossible in the state it is
I once had a sweaty game where 3 gens were done and I had no hooks as Blight on Ironworks. I had to pull in "dirty" tactics to win which is tunneling the first survivor out and slugging for pressure and it worked because I got a 4k at 1 gen. HOWEVER I don't want to play like this every single time.
@@Cursory3 I would hate that too. The stress is too much as a killer to aim for a win. It is 4 vs 1 at the end and what you need to pull is a miracle if you made a mistake or hit a DH and they ran to a safe loop .. etc. Also, no one will play a game to lose or draw. Some will but most people want a win; esp survivors or they wouldn’t be salty 90% of the times in end chat or gloating their win until timer ends. Everyone loves to win and the game feels broken in many ways now.
5:33 that confirms that I’m at least 1600+ because my very first game of trickster ever today had 3 P100s and a P80.
Playing killer is kinda sad because often I feel like I got out perked not out skilled
As a killer I feel like i’m gen rushed so quickly no matter the killer I choose.
I like those sweaty competitive matches. Give me a second queue for that.
I think the idea that there's only 1 option to queue into is the fundamental problem.
Somegames I just want to scare the shit out of people with scratched mirror myers. Most games I want to try my best. It's not fair that survivors who want to just have fun get stuck in lobbies with killers who are trying their best and vice versa.
The matchmaking as of this past two weeks has been terrible. SBMM isn't being being taken into account or in a way that works at all. When I play solo que this is what happens each and every game: There will be 1-2 very good survivors paired up with 1-2 babies that are actually terrible at the game and this team is put up against a decent killer. EVEN when I play killer I see this as well. One player will be a super high ranked player who knows how to loop for 5 gens and then two others will be average at best with one baby.
Because of this, I don't play solo que any longer and only play 4 man swiff on coms to bypass Behaviors current TERRIBLE match making system. And you know what's worse? The game sends us baby or barely average killer players!!!! Its just a stomp fest and we RARELY are put up against a strong blight or nurse. Imagine this. Two nights ago an average 5k per person 4 man swiff on coms was put up against a 150 hour trapper player..... WHY ARE WE PLAYING AGAINST THIS????? We're on a 20-30 win streak and we're being set out to crush a BRAND NEW killer player's experience!
I am currently convinced Behavior does some tweaking to their match making monthly. They set up solo que to consists of two decent players and two baby players and consider that "balanced" solo que is so bad right now. The only way you have a chance, to win as survivor at the higher ranks, is if by some random miracle you get put with 4 players that all know what's going on because Eruption Call of Brine is so detrimental to solo que. Those two perks demand you play in a 4 man on coms or only with 4 people who know exactly what must be done to stand a chance. I don't suggest anyone play solo que right. Get into a swf. Try and join some discord groups and group up.
This is the first time I've ever in my entire history of playing this game over the past 6 years that solo que has felt this terrible to play. Oh and before anyone says anything. These new icons for survivor actions will sort of help but not really. Those icons don't tell you when to let go to dodge an eruption. Those icons don't tell you anything about who's gen was kicked with call of brine and NEEDS to be touched so it doens't burn away and lose every bit of progress. These icons won't fix the two perks that can only be countered by a swf on coms.
only one small thing. At 4:32 when you show the "Killrate every killer (top 5% MMR)" slide the top 5% doesn't refer to 5% of players having "top MMR" (which I assume you mean are hitting the soft cap...?) but the MMR bracket that gets expanded starting at 3000 until it covers 5% of the player base, i.e. top 5% MMR means the players with the highest MMR.
The Splinter Cell: Double Agent OST
This is why they should fix the emblem system and bring back the old matchmaking
Forgot to mention the disaster that is backfill lobbies.
DBD should never have gone the comp balance route and mmr was a mistake.
I HATE invisible MMR. From long time experience with other games.
As a new killer it's really frustrating not knowing how good I actually am. I hit iri 3 last season, and iri 1 twice as fast this season. How good am I actually? One game I'm against a SWF that brings offerings and a plan, the next game I'm literally toying with my food and they only get 1 gen. One game they're letting Myers stalk them while standing in the open, the next game I barely see anyone because they're all hiding from the Myers
So that’s why when I started the game as a killer main the survivors were worse then bots and in gold I still get npc survivors
Hands down it is worse. Spot on analysis. I think we are ready for 2 game modes. Competitive with SHOWN MMR and casual with no SBMM, random quick play style. Even the competitive people want to know how good was that team I just played, and get a nice dopamine hit. I don’t think Behavior is listening to the right people
At 5:47, where did you get the info that bleeding people out increases your MMR? I recently had an argument with a survivor main who said bleeding people out don't count as a kill, and they are right in almost every aspect, bleeding people out gives no hooks, devout emblem quality or points at all. So she said bleeding people out doesn't give MMR either, which some people say it does, and some people say it doesn't, and I really want to know which of the two it is.
i love it now i am getting survivor that cant win without map, played in weckers yard 7 out of 10 game today.
How does the matchmaking look like when I play with a friend who is new to the game?
8 months late to this party, got back into the game after a year break because it just isn't fun going against sweaty killers and SWF survivors.
I'm a forever SoloQ player and I play altruistically. I'll take hits and hooks for the team if it means extending the match for another gen, things like that. I like my pops, I like my BP, All that good stuff.
However, the things that keeps me leaving is it's just not rewarding for me. As much as I feel I have gotten better at the game, I don't feel like queueing up solo is going to give me anything (if it's not an event, or there's no tome, etc). I want to love this game, but it's almost like it's handing me divorce papers every single time I really get the dopamine to start flowing from it.
This game should be fun, and it really could be, but people trying their hardest to stomp are making it such a bummer on both sides.
SBMM is like flies and mosquitoes. You know they're there for a reason but you know things would be so much better without them.
This is why I left DBD and I believe numbers dropped by 50% year over year (eg Dec 2021 to Dec 2022). The 6.1.2 update just underscored how bad the SBMM is. What I don’t understand as a survivor main who plays killer only about 4x per month is how I constantly get SWF’d with high ranking players or get pummeled as solo Q survivor when I play after 5pm? It’s like there are times when the SBMM is just turned off. Btw, I became a survivor main because I’m always paired with and pummeled by high end survivor players have thousands of hours more than me - even from my first killer game where the survivors surrounded me with flashlights and just kept blinding me. Talk about a formative experience that should never had happened and BHVR has a responsibility for that rather than only tweaking perks based on data. The devs don’t even know their own game.
According to the video, it sounds like you've hit one of the caps in which you can't really dip under. Even if you play killer a few times a month, the system recognizes you as an experienced player which may have capped all your killers at 1200 MMR. My question to you would be, how long have you been playing and was there a time where you played killer more often than survivor?
@@socalozzie6923 never. I really disliked playing killer. I only played just to get around a tome challenge and then let folks escape. I do play killer with 4 friends in a custom game each week to keep my skills up and to understand a few killers - it’s my only connection to DBD anymore. Would be a shame if DBD considers custom games in your MMR.
Hurts my head
I'd love some advice because I have a higher MMR than my friends who are newbies, but they don't want to play because we get killers who are so sweaty that they can't keep up, I've been lowering my MMR with other friends by trolling then dying, but I play the game alone alot and solo queue where I raise my MMR. Is there a way to make matches more consistent with my new player friends in comparison to me? Or do I need an alt bc yikes
im in the same situation as you, non of my newbie friends can last 10s against the killer we're matched with and i cant carry all of them so now we just play custom match with me using a meme killer build like scratched mirror myers to scare them
I am not in the high mmr bracket yet (on killer) and my approach is the inverse of what you are doing. I start slow, but the moment I notice that they are playing well I kick it up a notch, if gens still fly by I go a little sweaty, though I do refuse to tunnel unless it is intended as "punishment for bad behavior" of a specific player. Against my oponents that is enough to guarantee 3+ kills in almost all matches, from what I saw in streams your way certainly seems mandatory in the higher bracket :/ .. which is sad. 3v1 is already game over for survivors unless it happens just before the 3ed gen pops and even than it is hard to get through the rest of the match alive..
It is indeed nearly impossible to win a 3v1 against a competent killer. However, it is still possible. We had somebody tunneled out on Coldwind Farm early on, and they killed themselves on hook at 5 Gens. Somehow, someway we pulled through and completed all 5 Gens and all escaped. The huntress was not good imo, but it was also Coldwind Farm. It’s very hard for a killer to maintain pressure if they’re not super experienced.
You're weakest as killer in the early game. If you go easy, you could have two generators pop in your face on your first hook. This is another reason why higher MMR killers will go ham on lower MMR survivors - they don't know what they're up against until they've lost.
@@goaway5297 I am aware of that, it is an inherit issue with the games current designe, though changing it for the better is not easy. Bar "good" killers from playing against weak survivors? Well now killers can't have meme games anymore, only sweat fests. Give killers an idea of the avarage skill level against them? ... not sure that would be for the better either. No clue how to fix it, but as it stands it is killing my enjoyment of the game.