From reading your comments, I can almost feel that the worst part of this new MMR isn't even the matchmaking itself. It seems like already existing issues / core imbalances just become so much worse under this system. 😓
With this ranking system something like weighted perks, items and add-ons could be a factor for the outcome of a match. These weights could be inferred from the win rate and/or how likely you are to survive with those.
this mmr system is especially bad, when you play a new killer. i am superbad as pinhead, but i get survivors that are almost as good as those with my strongest killer. its just discouraging to learn new things.
Uh. My comment was deleted? I was talking about the TrueSkill 2 rating system that can take into account items, perks, add-ons, player performance, DC's and SWFs towards the expected outcome of a match. My previous comment doesn't make sense without it.
The funniest thing is that devs (even if they listen to this one) would rather delete this new system and revert to old one and stay there, than fixing core issues.
Yeah I hardly see survivors go for saves they could very clearly accomplish during the late game. I've had matches where NOED isn't active, there are 3 survivors with Borrowed Time at full health and 1 is hooked, but the 3 will just leave through the gate instead of all going to save the person who is hooked rather closeby, even though they could definately rescue them and all still escape with BT and bodyblocking.
Yeah, I played pretty decent against an oni today. And he facecamped a surv in the end. I rescued that surv, and took the chase (unfortunatly got hit thorugh the pallet with his power). He wasnt rly good with his power. And all 3 three of them were just sitting at the exit gate and they left me. Easy one hook death.
My biggest concern with this new MMR system is that it highly benefits insta-down camping killers such as Bubba. Although it’s on a player to player basis the amount of annoyance I have knowing as hard as I try with pig, some guy who is fine with sitting in front of a hook getting 2-3 kills a game will probably end up higher than me on the MMR scale regardless of skill difference. As well when I reach higher level survivor I fear I’ll see more and more players playing like this. I already have started to see it and my survivor is certainly not extremely high MMR
My question is there even a reason to have high mmr? As far as i know the new "rank" system only rewards playing not winning, and with us not being able to see mmr does it even really matter truly? Does it matter if im working for an invisible number that doesnt reward you for being high or low?
The thing I see throughout this whole system is that Kill-Escape MMR is EXTREMELY encouraging tunneling off hooks. I try not to because I want a “Fair” and fun game, but more kills means more MMR points. Get ready for BT and DS on EVERY survivor.
Bro after they mentioned this on the QNA, it was literally tunnel city and face camp madness! I promise you I’ve never seen more salt on this game till after that happed…🤦🏽♂️
@TheDirtRacer There is, and the highest I've gone against is 5k hours. I'm in the same boat as a lot of commenters where we either get completely crushed, or completely crush, there doesn't seem to be a lot of "2 escapes, 2 kills" like the devs claim they want to balance around.
The old system felt better. I usually felt like i was actually going against people of my rank and skill with the last system. Now its one game of smooth brains and then the next game is big brains and the cycle continues. I can never just have fun against people of similar skill
@@EnragedOxygen I don't think it's that simple. We complain because the grind for staying or ranking up is gonna be worse than ever. I literally want to lose to get chill or baby survivors to have fun, this game is so tryhard now that's not even funny
@@ATM_Jack I was specifically adressing his problem of unbalanced matches. What you describe is a standard probled/benefit of skill based matchmaking. Which might be not the best option for this game.
There should be small bnus, say +3 MMR at the end of match for: -person with most unhooks -not bringing any item -person with longest chase time -person who healed OTHERS the most For killer: -hooking everyone once (maybe +5 pts) That would reward proper gameplay
I'd prefer it if game balance rewarded "proper" gameplay instead. Some strategies like camping, tunneling and SWF are just disproportionally effective and this MMR system is highlighting those flaws.
Why should we reward people for not bringing items when it's literally a part of the game. That's like rewarding a football player for bringing a helmet.
I think this is quite a cool idea, since a lot of people are annoyed about how the new MMR promotes selfishness for survivors and camping for killers, maybe instead you could be rewarded in MMR for each hook (as killer) healing a single health state, unhook, etc. Only thing that could be reconsidered is not bringing any item, they should rework the actual items and add-ons themselves instead
I understand and appreciate your POV, however, having a Skilled Based Matchmaking System that is based on escapes and kills, which doesn't prove skill, is not a fun system. It's easy to say "well you'll escape the majority" but the reality is, I've been dying on first hook late game while teammates with no hooks just leave. It promotes an extremely selfish playstyle and in a game where solo queue is already horrendous, it limits the experience that much more. One option would to be that each survivor gets more ELO depending on how many survivors escape
@Source Dasher You are absolutely right. Otz is basically owned by BHVR and is getting paid to say shit like "oh yeah the game is balanced OVERALL, you will win MOST of your games IF blah, blah, blah, be nice to the game developers". Otz is a nice guy but he is a hypocrite and it is really annoying to watch.
@Source Dasher "real job" I hate when people say that. Anything u put work into, no matter how small it is, that gives u money is a job. There isnt such thing as a fake or real job
@@dazai2734 Because everybody(including him) knows the game is not balanced and it will never be due to the greedy braindead developers who couldn't make even a little change in the matchmaking since the game had been released. They can't even fix their old shit but they decided to give another objective to the killer just like that, plus they removed cleansing for survivors(since blessing does the same thing but it also gives you an OP buff). Ah yes and let's nerf some B tier killers as well for no reason. The devs know they are incompetent of fixing basic things and lags(proof of that is console gameplay right now). The game is terribly optimized and after every update it's getting even worse even for PC players. So the devs embraced the ugly truth and acknowledged that they are useless so the only thing they've been doing for the last couple years is buffing survivors(obviously because they make them more money since a survivor is more likely to buy a cosmetic in game since you can actually see it in third person). But heeey, at least we are getting new cosmetics every week... Yeah who need balance when you can get a skin for 10 bucks.
@@braido I think they mean survivor matches go either of those two ways. Not that they have only played 2 matches. Though I will say the first time I read their statement, I interpreted it the same way as you.
Ive had that with the previous rank system as killer. it was either way too easy and boring or a boosted genrushing swf team on haddonfield that made it disappointingly impossible to win. Now its better but i still meet those hardcore swf every now and then
Well for the system to work properly you need a bigger sample size unfortunately. For me as a killer after about 50 games solo groups and swf groups are nearly indistinguishable.
Since MMR is out I went from playing about 10h a week to 1-3 games a week. Getting better just doesnt feel rewarding for me anymore. Before the System: I get better and I excape more often / get more kills in future games --> I am happy that I am improving. With the System: I get better and because of it I escape less in future games (Because I get matched against way better killers) and as Killer way more matches are a complete sweatfest, which I can not enjoy for too much games. It doesn't feel rewarding for me anymore to have good games, because I always think "damn I destroyed these guys and the next matches will be hell for me because of it now". For me DbD is/was a super casual game for fun. But with this system I actually get stressed from playing it. So what's the point anymore? I want to play video games to relax and chill alone or with my friends. But after weeks of this system being out and certainly not getting fixed soon, I pretty mich completey stopped playing this game. I still watch streams, but I just can't use my freetime on something which isn't really fun to me. There are better options, like getting insulted by my League of Legends mates.
I just can't get behind this though process of punishment/reward. "My godlike skill was rewarded by being matched against noobs" "My godlike skill is now punished against even sweatier more godlier gods." ""damn I destroyed these guys and the next matches will be hell for me because of it now". For me DbD is/was a super casual game for fun" Bro...how much casual fun do you think the guys that you destroyed were having. People keep saying this shit but never look at the other side. If you're queueing all day slam dunking noobs enjoying your casual fun experience, those noobs are experiencing the exact opposite.
If you’re serious about wanting to play the game to relax/chill out just die to the entity and/or let survivors escape at the end of the match. That’s what I do and I always get in to super casual games on both sides but then again I actually play just to have fun the only times I kill someone is when they’re being toxic. No offense but to me it kinda sounds like you just wanna stomp people.
The issue I have with the explanation they gave about there being "too many variables" is that that just isn't true Chases: the game can already count how long a chase has been going for, and notifies when someone escapes or goes down Doing totems/gens: It isn't hard to track the percentage of gens you did in a match or how many totems you did Protection hits/blinding a killer to save someone else: same as the totems and gens Perks/Add-ons: This one could be based on something as simple as the percentage of wins/losses over the entirety of the community At this point, it isn't that there are too many variables to make a good system, it's that BHVR either doesn't have the staff that wants to actually try to make a functioning MMR system or none of them are equipped to make equations that make sense with the variables given
None of those stats corolate 1 to 1 with skills. The variables theyre talking about arent trackable stats, but the complicated nuances of how the stats interact to show skill. They cant really make the perfect skill adjusted mmr system without being perfect players themselves. And perfect players dont exist. Also, mmr is supposed to be like this. It only counts wins and losses so that you know it puts people in the right spot eventually. A few games have tried to go against this like overwatch. But each of them had huge growing pains where people could hold 75% or 25% winrates while not moving in rating by accidentally manipulating the system.
@@legolast.spencer6979 witnessed this last night playing. I was switching between survivors mid chase and hitting all of them accordingly, yet I ended up getting a garbage chase rating because I kept breaking chase so often, it's bs
@@legolast.spencer6979 it doesn't have to negatively impact the killer. It just has to work for the survivor. So if a survivor is chased all game and dies. it doesn't negatively affect their mmr just because they got tunneled.
yeah, that's almost rude to ignore everything a survivor did in a match i think. you rescued your team, did gens to avoid 3-genning, took hits for your injured teammate, ran with killer for 3 gens, cleansed hex totems, escaped from basement but died because of a mori or just wanted to sacrifice yourself for your teammate? well f*ck you then. Like bruh who thought it was a good way to judge skill?? I really don't get it from killer's pov it's somewhat okey-ish to measure kills, even though it would be more honest to count hooks in my opinion
@@loonywolf2012 ever since sbmm the amount of insidious bubba has tripled ... they get easy kills with 12k points and a 4k + minus pip yet they are the best player in dbd according to sbmm. kills say nothing - they should wage hooks over kills
dbd needs to listen to their community more, there’s a happy medium between doing anything to appease your community and ignoring their opinions completely. for the sake of dbd’s longevity, they need to find it.
only way to make them realize this is to stop buying their half ass dlc and crumby cosmetics. i know i'm not alone in not giving them any of my money in months and months but we need more people to do this.
they wont cause dbd has no competition so they dont need to try, its like youtube, they can do whatever they want and people will keep coming back cause its the only thing like it
@MrHolland to reward players for their playtime during the month (they are pretty low rewards tho). In case you haven't realized, since they introduced this new pip system which does not affect matchmaking, they made it so they you can't depip out of your current rank.
My experience with the MMR has been either the team dies extremely quickly, or we all get out no problem, it’s either going against a brand new killer or one of the best killers, no one my skill level
Literally every match I end up with 20k points and my randoms end up with Max 12k points and some with only 8k, no tier 3 perks at all, or anything, and look I have one thousand hours and I'm quite above the average (used to be iridescent 3 before new MMR) and my randoms, they are literally horrible at the game.
This is also very demotivating for new survivors. I only have 60h in this game, with 2 lvl 50 Survivors, playing with a friend who has 16h in the game (half of the time killer gameplay). Most of the time we got matched with 2 players who got like 50-100 h on average (Ash - Bronze 4), while the killer had 500-1000+ h (and Iridescend 1-3 rank).This lead to many games without any gen nearly done and a very frustating experience. On the other hand we got some matches with at least on 500h+ survivor and a killer with mostly no skill/experience. This lead to a very fast gen-rushing game, with almost no chases, hooks and 3-4 survivors escaped. How are you supposed to get better in a game, if you A get absolutely abliterated by the killer without any chance or getting carried so hard, that there is no learning of mistakes. Before that patch, playing DBD felt so much more rewarding, because most of the time, the opponent(s) had somewaht the same skills and experience. Sure, there have had been unbalanced games, but not as many as now.
I literally started playing dbd just this month. I feel like the system is kinda balanced when im playing survivor. But when I play killer, even though I am bronze with low two digits playing time in about 6/10 games I face people with combined 2000+ hours and at least 2 red ranks where I can kill 1 of the maximum, I constantly get flashlighted, perfectly looped, trolled etc. The other 3/10 are vs very bad players where I kill all of them with ease and 1/10 feels actually "fair" for both sides ...
I feel most balanced matches are during the week days while insane BS is on weekends, when people play like crazy. I would recommend dodging all ttv-players, streamers are always with a 4 premade, super sweaty and will be bad winners and losers. A lot of streamers have bad skills, they just win because they get insane info throigh sharing feed and discord which according to devs, is not fair for the killer.
@@nrhildija4145 its funny how much truth there is in ur comment but u can also take advantage of this. first of they will most likely bring a survivor sided map for their beloved twitch streamer so a negation offering or killer sided map can counteract this. always try to catch the streamer! they all let go of gens to go for the rescue - fake the pickup to hit the guy with a beamer.
These swfriend groups have certain time zones they log on and play. For US it is around 6-11 pm EST. For Europe, prime time is around 2-3pm US est. Outside that time zone, the system will not have a lot of choices so will match people up with who is available, which tend to produce uneven matches. For swf groups, it is important to play hag, trapper, or other instant/faster chase killers like huntress/cannibal. It reduces the amount of stress, depending on your playstyle. If you don't like flashlights, use the mod to make them drop their items or franklin's demise perk. The issue is that many new players won't even know these perks exist, and the upper performing swfs have learned by testing, what build is the most difficult for killers to work against. I have been playing mostly killer for 2 months.
Cannibal and wraith is generally who I run the most when against swfs. Trapper is also much less stressful. Will unlock hag soon. Spirit and blight I have, but their playstyle is a little bit sweaty and uses a lot of mental focus. The killer has to loop, run, out think, and do action reflexes for the entire game almost. While survivors have rest periods and there are 4 of them. What a lot of new killers get is frustration and stress, not so much that it is how they lose. Making every loop a learning experience, helps create a positive experience and feedback. Or using insidious on cannibal and instant downing 1 or 2 or 3 going for rescues, can offset the frustration. Artist is pretty strong too and her power is not that difficult to use.
DBD causes more stress than fun, especially when playing killer imo. I would prefer a ranked & casual mode implemented in the game since q times with this mmr system are already longer than they used to be.
I don't see how the system is too "complex" to translate performance to MMR, they already award blood points by performance -- that's literally a performance measure
so farming people off hook is a good thing? because that still gives points, and that also means you can just do 1 gen with proof thyself, only sabo/do totems and still max boldness, not at all performance, otz literally made a video about maxing survival without escaping......
@@moingame6188 You lose more points than you gain for unsafe hooks. So, invalid point. But ironically, yeah, the bloodpoint system was a better measurement of individual performance than this; you couldn’t just sit on gens or hide all game. You needed to balance altruism, interaction with the killer, repairs, and your own survival if you wanted to get anywhere near 32k. At best, if you did jack shit, you’d maybe safety pip for escaping. Now? Guaranteed boost.
The rank system used to be based on that! I'm not sure how I would feel about it though. Many perks and pointless actions dramatically increase your BP gains. And what about the Killer side? Some Killers get mad BP over others. It's not simple.
@@whothehellarewe you don't lose bloodpoints for an unsafe unhook, you just don't get the extra 500 bloodboints for the safe unhook, only thing you lose is points in the altruism category for the pips, nothing else
My gripe with it is that they call it “Skill” Based Matchmaking. But all it is, is Escape/Kill Matchmaking. All this does is encourage hiding and tunneling for the first kill. Everyone knows, even the developers pointed it out, that once the killer gets the first kill all survivor’s chances of escaping plummet. I stopped playing 2 days into the new SBMM because it was the same thing over and over. Nurse/Spirit/Blight enhance patrol for first kill, obliterate the rest. As a killer I mained Legion and it’s abysmal. It was literally the worst experiences I’ve ever had with the game. It felt like I could never get a down and before I knew it the game was over. This used to be my go-to chill game and now I just watch other people complain about it.
The game just feels tenfold harder for everyone now. It's rare to see meme builds and killer interactions anymore because everyone assumes that their opponent will play to their best ability. Recently I hadn't received a single boop as Pig, and I main her religiously. I played at least 50 games since MMR dropped and in every single one, I couldn't even get one kill... Perhaps this system will allow the developers to balance killers a little bit better, or improve some core mechanics? I am still hopeful. I cannot give up on this game, not that I've spent so many hours and money on it...
Yeah. this shit has been making me more and more sad lately...dbd has had some big problems for ages of course but shit has been changing for the worse. I've played this game for four solid years, and it's pretty much been my main one the whole time, or at least the one I come back to, to chill; after I been playing some other game for a while. I'm tired of the drama and the negative effects in gameplay...
@@peliam6382 every time i try to boop the snoot i get ambushed :( even if im the last survivor or the killer currently not in a rush they just wont let me do it anymore - especially with the pig changes they tryhard alot now.
Veterans: Analyzing complex game systems and discussing the impacts brought on by their changes. Me: "Haha bing bong man is fun. I think I will try this burrowing meat dog monster next."
@@4everGirlStar who tf calls him bell boy? its bing-bong-boi. we have Myers aka Succ-daddy / Plague as VommyMommy / Demogorgon as Gordon or alt. demo-dog / spirit aka spi-spi / Oni aka Onii-chan / Trickster aka Shit'ster / Trapper as Trap-daddy / ghostface aka Ghostie / Pig aka Piggy / Leatherface aka Boobs or Booba / Freddy aka Fredster / Legion aka Leg / Pyramid Head aka PPhead .. and i think the rest stays the same, i hear people call him Shit-slinger as well, maybe i missed one? pls comment below but these are the overall "officially" accepted nichnames
my biggest problem it being hidden, along with calling it "skill based" I dont think simply killing or escaping has anything to do with skill, what you did to get to that point is skillful but not judging that is just weird.
The problem with this game IMO is that it’s just a game you’re suppose to play lol. People care too much about a win or lose. I wasn’t around when it first arrived but i think it was more of simple hide and seek. I’ve seen this happen to games though, when the player base evolves the gameplay. There will be no happy ending with this game. I’d say play while it lasts.
@@gamerldDBD i bought this game recently under the impression that this is pretty much clownfest/child game of tag in dark setting, where anything goes. Random perks, random lucky escapes, constantly trying to do something unconventional. But people tend to optimize the fun out of games.
@@gamerldDBD the problem is this isn’t a game “that you just play” according to the devs. If it was that, then matchmaking would only be connection based (you know, like the old cods before AW). That’s the best matchmaking were the better player wins and the noobs lose till they learn. However gaming is more mainstream and everyone wants to feel like they are good, so devs retain newcomers with SBMM, and the talented player is rewarded with worse queues and/or having to carry a noob team 24/7 depending on the matchmaking system. Luckily DBD is Skilless based match making, and now that devs spoke just die as survivor or AFK as killer, if you’re a filthy reverse booster with too much spare time
I feel that this game has a problem with identifying what exactly is considered a win or not. Not just from the developer's viewpoints, but also us as players - and I think that if time was taken to clarify these points, it would then allow for a much better MMR system to take hold and not feel as jumbled. Let me explain: The teammate who did nothing but crouch around all game, never was in a chase, never unhooks their teammates, and hardly does any gens finds the hatch and escapes. Did they win? Is escaping the point of the game, or is working together to finish objectives (even if you don't make it out the exit gate) a win? Conversely, if I do all the gens and lose due to NOED from an obviously unskilled killer, does that count as a win? The killer who downs someone and facecamps, maybe getting an additional kill out of this tactic, ends the game with two kills and two escapes. Did they win, or is the point of the game to engage in chases, play objectives, and strive to get as many hooks as possible? I'm not trying to make any judgements on survivor or killer playstyles, but simply showing that there is no clear definition of winning here, and because of that, how can you have a MMR system that measures a win or a loss if everyone has different definitions of them? I would love to hear your thoughts on this Otz.
Exactly this. Since the new MMR was implemented the number of killers running noed or straight up camping/tunneling on the first down (even at the start of the game on 4 or 5 gens) and the number of survivors on solo q that don't really do anything has increased so much in my experience. Of course there are games that feel more fun or balanced, a killer on your level or a solid team, and the queue times are so much better as survivor; but it doesn't feel worth it of an exchange, yknow
At the very least, with the Emblems system, you were encouraged to add some variety in your play style. Survivors were encouraged to interact with the Killer, repair gens, protect team mates, and themselves. Likewise, Killers were encouraged to protect gens, do damage, chase effectively, and so on. Now? Doesn’t matter. It only nets you bloodpoints. If you want to “win” you only need to camp, or sandbag your team mates. Don’t go back to unhook at EGC, and likewise, just face camp as Killer. It’s literally the most rewarding strategy now - and that’s just sad.
Right. A win is so subjective in this game. This game is a team game. If I get 3 of my teammates out and I die for it? I find that a win on my part, but it doesn't work that way. If I can loop the killer for 2 or 3 gens and at least one or two people get out, i wouldn't consider that a loss either. I feel like a solo escape is encouraged in this system moreso than a team escape. Like if I have to die trying to save my teammates, I will more often than not.. why would that mean I have less skill than a claudette hiding in the corner?
See, this, this is what it all comes down to. With the old system, overall performance was used to establish how far you'd go with your Rank and your Rank aka OVERALL performance was what led to matchmaking. Now, now all that matters is the Survive or Die part. Killer got one Kill or maybe 2 running NOED while camping and tunneling? CONGRATULATIONS!!! Survivor was a non-contributor running Wake Up, Spine Chill, and Premonition to avoid Killer and open the Exit Gates faster? CONGRATULATIONS!!! Any other combination of Perks, Add-Ons, or Strategies are completely useless and Overall Performance matters not compared to the simple binary of: Did the Survivor Die? Y/N?
Why? It's always been pretty clear what a "win" is in this game. I'll never understand why people try to dance around it so much. "yeah we all died but we did so great!" "yeah they all 4 got away but I defended gens so well!" Clearly, you didn't.
@@smockytubers1188 Say that again once you're tunneled for five gens, get hooked once at the end, and then your teammates leave you to die. If you significantly contribute to your teammates escape, then your death should not count as a loss. In that respect, the old system was better.
So as a survivor in this new system, would it be best to just escape rather than going for heroic plays n helping your team as much as possible? To me, if this is the case, it kind of sounds like I should be using my team instead of working with them, therefore defeating the purpose of a team based role
Exactly, yeah. It's encouraged a really selfish playstyle; and a playstyle of just using crutch shit rather than trying different things, and doing things like going for difficult plays where you could hone your skill.
@@RavensWings11 it really seems like it A lot less team play in my games now bcuz of this system They need to change it so it rewards team play If I get someone else to safety at the cost of my own life, the game shouldn't tell me I suck at the game bcuz I died It really just defeats the point of working together as a team
@@RavensWings11 soooo satisfying knowing that your play helped get your whole team out alive Think it's what truly makes the role a very fun one Just wish I wouldn't get punished for making such plays n I get rewarded instead Even if it's slightly less then what I would get if I survived
the most efficient way to play survivor is blending in the environment and stealth perks, wait for ur team to die and keep hiding until the killer closes the hatch. then with wake up and spine chill u 15% the gate and open it fully once he checked on it - congratz u are the best player in dbd according to the devs. if this isnt enough in case u vs some1 with good gate defense u can always bring a Key into the match as well + left behind - u wont get any mmr points by escaping through the hatch but atleast u dont lose any either.
So after over a year of development from the team responsible for MMR system they've settled on: Escape = win Die = Lose Amazing. I don't think i'd have been able to figure that out after a year myself, these guys deserve raises... Sarcasm aside, their extreme desire to keep the details of the system hidden and therefor deleting any discussion that reveals any of the "hidden" mechanics drives the discussion off their forums and onto the comment sections of streamers. Its like they try as hard as they can to make bad choices.
I can understand why they wouldn't want to get into the details as to how it works, because people would exploit whatever they can to stroke their own epeens. Yes, even if they don't get rewards and the ranking system is just a measurement of time.
@@leadpaintchips9461 The new system isn't so much a measure of time, it's just a way to match you against people of like skill. If someone tries to game the system to get a higher ranking they're only cheating themselves. The old system was a measure of time. They've got it right that the rating can go up and down over time, they just need to take a few more things into consideration than just escape or not.
@@dueldu70 Im not claiming to know how to fix it. Im also not on the team of people paid to do it. I can say however that there's more to it than escape = win, die = lose.
@@leadpaintchips9461 The only point of a ladder system is for people who want to play the game seriously to climb it. I've never seen any other game where trying your best to climb was considered bad and "stroking their own peens". And if they do that and get a stupidly high MMR, why do you even care? If anything it's all the better since we won't get matched against them.
@@kiwa8830 No, the point of MMR in video games is to match those of similar skill against each other. Having ranks is the reason why you have those insults like "Gold scrub", which is just someone stroking their own epeen. The point of hiding the nitty gritty is to try to keep everyone where they're supposed to be, instead of having mismatched games because someone is playing the matchmaker instead of the game.
I think what was fun for me was the "randomness" in DBD. The variety of characters, killers, addons, items, offerings, maps etc etc that could happen; random shack window side, random pallet gen spawns, random hatch etc. They all made me play this game more than other games. Now with MMR games felt much more predictable, and you get bored of them very quickly. I played roughly 10 games ytd night and all I could recall was alchemist ring blights and range cd nurse and meta perk spirits, with one game of bamboozle bubba face camping first hook. Nothing else.
The worst part about the MMR is getting caught in the endless cycle of having new or just bad players as team mates who keep leaving you for dead on hook. Regardless of you're actual in-game performance, the game just lowers your MMR regardless of how you died, so get matched with worse and worse team mates who again, just leave you to die on hook and on it goes.
H0nestly, though the old ranking system was wonky and flawed, I felt like at least half my games were fun. Now it's nothing but sweatfests and, as mentioned, the same 3-4 perks on every survivor and just generally miserable
@@ForzaTerra89 what? So it's fair that we get put against people we barely have a chance against, but God forbid we ever get someone lower then our skill level? What are you talking about? Lmao just fix the system, don't settle for "well yeah between the two bad options this one is the best bad option"
I tried to play killer after new MMR was added. 10 games: 8 loses(1k hours survs when I have like 5 hour killer experience) and 2 wins(completely new players who doesn't know how to loop).
Yep, I always try to cheer up new killers whenever I face them, which has been too often. Prior to MMR, the lowest killers I faced had 50 hours. My survivor MMR has tanked a lot since I try to rescue as many survivors as possible. It's a really stupid idea to have survivors who can turn a 3k/4k into a 1k by sacrificing themselves drop MMR. Matchlength stops mattering, sure, I can agree with that. But pallets being used by a survivor, average chase time, gens being done(for survivors)/gens remaining(killer) and hits taken/given can matter a lot more. You can add in kills and escape into the mix, sure, but use those 4 metrics to gather data, then use that data to create an average number(also depending on maps ofcourse), if you perform better than the average number, you increase MMR, if you perform worse, you decrease in MMR. Even Wraith's 2-3 second chase would be fixed, since it's based on an average number. Lets say Nurse has an average number of 25 on The Game and an average number of 30 on Dead Dawg Saloon(higher average being better performance), then a player who plays Nurse gain 20 points(aka, worse) on The Game and 31(aka better) on Saloon. Their average MMR would change regardless of how many kills gained or lost. I think the fact that maps arent included, even though Doc is godlike on Dead Dawg Saloon and quite meh on Gas Heaven(the carwalls alone cost him 1 and a half minutes before he downs a survivor), where Nurse doesnt really care which map is being used. Is one of the bigger reasons that MMR is being rightfully hated on. I've played less and less DBD purely because of SBMM making matches less fun to play. An average of 50% escape rate is not fun, because it doesnt include whether or not my teammates escaped.
Same here, 1st round: 2.5k hour SWF; 2nd round: players that just bought the game; like come on. Whether or not people think that the MMR system is working, the results of the MMR systems can be really questionable.
What we really need to talk about, is how incredibly deceptive the Devs were about the true nature of the system and how incredibly derisive was the delivery of Patrick when actually speaking of the issue.
We were promised a true skill-based mmr system, and all the devs did is once again show that they don't play their own game. And that dude came across as obnoxious when he was trying to explain it, as if that would help anything
@@rosaw2012 Oh they play the game, they just completely suck at it. I wouldn't be surprised if they implemented this system so that they can feel better about themselves playing like shit. No wonder McLean left, he was one of the only competent devs and got sick of their bullshit.
If the devs keep doing this then am just going to play vhs. Otz I think you should start switching games soon because of the lack of criticism or how much the devs don't care. DbD is practically an abusive relationship now Wich was a shame because I truly did love this game.
I really dont know how we went from a fairly complex system that took into consideration many variables present in the game to kill/escape:good ; Missed kills/getting killed: bad. I really hope the devs notice this to make fixes to this new system or make a complete rollback while thinking of ways to improve it. Thats all my rant and i rarely play the game hahaha
@@Difcar i think the complexity that was installed before this sbmm encouraged more various ways of playing the game in comparison to this more simple system that only rewards you for escaping through an exit gate/getting kills. I think that fixing the flaws it had was easier than releasing a new one imo. PD: I mainly play surv and would love to hear the opinión of a killer main.
This system completely fucks over mediocre players. Me and my friend are relatively new to the game, but not brand new (~300 hours). Unless we play with our third friend (that got us into the game and has 1,2k hours), we are constantly getting matched with people who have less than 20 in-game hours (!) and obviously as a team get stomped by the killer, resulting in us getting even worse teammates. I literally had a teammate who had 4 (!) hours playtime. I know playtime isn't everything but surely matching a person that just bought a game with someone who has been playing for at least a few months isn't a solution?
My biggest issue with this mmr system is that i always sacrifice myself for my teammates (in solo queues) so therefore i keep getting paired with very new teammates that dont even know how to mend themselves or heal other survivors.
as someone pointed out on scott’s video: they literally already HAD a system in which to measure overall skill built into the game, which is the bloodpoint/pipping system that the game was using to matchmake BEFORE. measuring how much BP you receive in each category (minus any BP offerings & such) and then basing your MMR on that would be a MUCH better way to measure skill, as it doesn’t just take survival/kills into account, but your overall performance. for example: on the survivor side, the current system literally discourages altruism, which is kind of an important aspect of survivor gameplay, while a BP-based system would actively encourage it, and also better teamwork in general.
@@theedaviles1490 that’s true, but farming matches are less common than regular matches, and would still be better to gauge overall skill than escapes/kills (they could also program it to register endgame farming vs pre-endgame performance, but this is BHVR we’re talking about, nobody knows how to code lmao.)
The BP method sucked. The amount of BP you get is almost entirely up to what the killer does. You can literally just equip insidious and AFK in front of a totem and the survivors will be able to max objective, cleanse 4 totems for boldness and get escape survival points at most. If the killer doesnt interact with you, there is no potential for boldness, altruism or additional survival points. Not to mention imbalance in BP gain itself. Boldness is incredibly easy to max as long as the killer chases you. Against most killers survival is almost impossible to max. Altruism points is entirely incumbent upon the killer to perform well and even then you have to compete with your own team over them. Objective isn't hard but you often wont be able to get altruism, boldness, AND objective. This is why survivor earns less bp/hour than killer. Killers can just play and they'll get a mostly even spread of BP across categories. Survivors tend to max out 1 or 2, have a decent but of progress in a 3rd and very little or nothing in a 4th
Ever since the mmr thingy, playing killer, especially at such a low rank like mine is terrible, i feel i never stand a chance, and never have a chance to get better. Especially with a killer like ghostface, who's like the only killer i play. I thought it would fix matchmaking, but i do good once against people who practically have no perks, then the next 10 matches i get people who are clearly leagues ahead of me, all running your normal dstrikes, dhards, and lampkin lane offering. It might just be the console experience, but i feel it is much worse to play killer now than before the update.
Tbh I suggest you play a different killer. Ghostface isn't exactly easy to play. He also requires a lot of upkeep since he depends on his add ons. Play someone like doctor or hag. Pretty sure both are free.
@@jennawinter4873 Doctor isn't as hard as he seems and hag doesn't really encourage camping because she can just place her traps instead. But I think wraith is free too so you could just play him lol though he is supposedly getting nerfed soon
For me the problems are two main things: 1. My matches even a month on still feel very random. With killer I've gone from a 4 hook, 0 kill game to the next being a 4k with 5 gens remaining. But I've also had entire sessions that are just streaks of 3-4 hook games. On survivor I've found the same - either the killer gets no kills or everyone, with few games in that goal spot of 2k/2 escape the devs seem to be aiming for. 2. I've got no sense of progression anymore. Pre-MMR/SBMM I was generally sitting around rank 10 depending on how much I could play, but I could try and get a little better each month. Now I don't have that benchmark. I often see Red Grades in my lobbies, but does that mean I'm good and just didn't have time to rank up before? Or does it mean I'm playing with people that playing a lot but might not have much skill? I can look at how well loops get ran, the mind games used, how quickly gens pop or how often a 3-gen situation happens but it's all really abstract and get to have a connection to.
Sounds like screwing over other survivors so you have a 'safety net' for dying last will be the new meta. Also a just hide in a corner meta if you think you have bad teammates too.
I hate it especially because when I play survivor (even solo) I like the “risk it all for your teammates” mindset, but why bother 99ing an exit gate to go back and help when I can just leave and guarantee I climb? The risky altruistic plays that used to make the game fun are just punishing now
Every match is the same for me, key users and survivors that like to play hide n seek, games last way too long or way too short nothing in between, honestly it's really boring lol
@@jaydani116 Wow. I just realized how many people think like that now during my games. At end game I notice people give 0 fucks and just leave the moment gens are done even when somebody is hooked. It’s soo often I’m starting to lose hope in solo queue.
The funniest thing is it took them 2 years, according to them, to make a system that just takes into account escapes and kills. THE SAME SYSTEM THEY SAID THEY WOULDN'T IMPLEMENT IN THE FIRST PLACE. I completely understand why people are overreacting
As a veteran that has been playing on and off since legion released, I can confidently say that the MMR system is completely broken and does not work properly or, it does not cater to the casual player anymore. I played 4 matches with the new system on release. 1ST GAME- I played ghost face because I needed to interrupt and grab people and I thought he would be the perfect killer for this. I have only play ghost face a collective 3 or 4 times in my entire dbd career. I got absolutely obliterated, only got 3 hooks. 2ND GAME- I went bubba, one of my better killers, 1 hook the entire match. Survivors played absolutely perfectly around loops and managing their time. 3RD GAME- Bubba again, same result. 4TH GAME- Went legion this time, got 3 hooks. Keep in mind, before this MMR system I was by no means an amazing killer. Probably around rank 8 or 7. I could never get close to red ranks. And here I am coming back to the game getting my shit kicked in after waiting in a 10-15 min que. Completely ruined killer for me, it's not fun anymore.
Umm... Does playing since the release of Legion really qualify you as a Veteran..? I'm not denying that you have been here since their release, nor am I denying that you do have experience.. But was it really that long enough ago to qualify you as a veteran? I would aasume that the real veterans are those who have been playing since the game only had 3 killers and 4 survivors, qnd those who still have their original legacy outfit :x.....
that sounds like no players were online during your search, which ended up with you being matched up against god tier. Or someone who played way outside your normal bracket of tactics.
So I am just some killer main player who used to have an easy time hitting red ranks. I took a break from the game for a few months and started playing a while ago again. I've got 800 hrs played and whenever I queue up against other PC players (I have crossplay enabled) I check their stream profiles. Whenever I am able to check them (lots of the time they are private) it shows that my opponents have between 1,500 and 3,500 hrs played. And I can feel the difference. Because I've been taking a break I deranked to a really low spot. Iron, bronze or whatever. And from my first game on all of my opponents were iridescent/red ranked/graded or whatever you call it. I've started to lose lots of games now, since I usually can't dominate a game with a mid tier killer like Nemesis against 4 survivors where I can see that 3 of them have 2,500'ish hours played, all running 4 meta perks and looping how you are supposed to loop, aswell as bringing stupid map offerings like the resident evil one. I stopped expecting to win. Even when I tunnel gens just fly past so quick that most of the time games are over within 4-5 minutes. I don't know what changed, but I did enjoy the game way more before they changed all that. I started maining Pyramid Head since then and I am getting way better results now, but even though I lost lots of games in the past few weeks, the game still only matches me up against iridescent veteran players with atleast double my playtime.
I’ve done a lot of solo queue and 2 man swf in the new mmr, every single one of my games is killers that are very competent and teammates that urban evade around the entire map and let me die
my biggest issiue is the following: I came Back to DBD about 2 Month ago. I was obviously much better than the average Rank 20 Survivor and rose through the Ranks quickly one 4 at a time. I made it till rank 4 and the new MMR came live. Since then im regularly checking the hourcont on the Survivors im Playing against and they most of the time hve 5-20 times my playtime sometimes even more. As a consequence i lose... often ... badly... and now i kind of know why. I performed overwelmingly before and now the System sees me as a top 1% Killer whilst im not even close. And sice the MMR is set for every Killer individually on this high level and only changes slowly... im not realy having fun annymore. The Eppidemic of Keys in Lobbys does not make it better as well.
You explained exactly why this sort of system fucks over killers enjoyment of the game the most. Nearly every match now for a high MMR killer is sweaty, and if you happen to win any of your matches, you only increase your MMR so it's a lose/lose situation.
hey same here, now its 6losses with 2-6 hooks and after 2 finger sucking survivors games and then back to mlg survivors. Its bad, playing with killers you never played with is even worse. and playing without gen regressing perks seems absolutely impossible.
same here, just bought the game for 3 weeks, now i am rank three and i got pair with many sweaty survivors that are above my league, sometimes i manage to get a sacrifice just because they are greedy but if they play safe, it may be damn hard to gain a sacrifice. but at the sametime, after losing these matches, i sometimes get quad on the next match, you could go from 1 hook in a game to 12 hooks on the next. For a killer, it fluctuates a lot, but most of the time, survivors are sweaty. I am not necessarily a great killer, but I know the basic and often watch multiple DBD youtubers content, I also play everyday for >1 hours
Proposal of a solution to skill based matchmaking (of sorts) Offer a "purist" or "proving grounds" mode that either allows no items and/or add-ons and just perks, specific perks and add-ons, or you just go in absolutely naked. This would have a separate MMR system that only SLIGHTLY influences regular game matchmaking. That could be sort of the sacred ground that the most skilled killers and survivors and swfs would use. Maybe balance it by setting the swf queue limit to duos. I don't play this game much but i do see that the balancing issues come primarily from items and add-ons. The perks seem relatively okay, even though survivors hate noed, ruin, Corrupt, etc. And killers hate DS, BT, Dead hard, etc. They all kinda do the same things for both sides. Idk just my thoughts.
What I liked about old system is that it was in very dbd lore spirit. It encouraged you not to just kill everyone, but prolong the pleasure, to toy with your prey, to make survs "suffer" before you kill them. That had kinda atmosphere, and "win" was basically giving survs an exhausting long game.
The old emblem system was utter garbage though (and still is but it doesn't really matter now as "grades" are whatever, at least to me), at least for killers. For survivors getting pips was super easy up until red ranks (as a solo player, in a semi-decent SWF pips and ranks pretty much flew by and you were at rank 1 before you knew it, hence the amount of boosted survivors in red ranks), killers on the other hand needed to "babysit" survivors to an extent if they wanted to get the maximum out of any match they played, it wasn't really in their hands what emblems they're gonna get, leaving a lot to the survivors' behaviour: you can't kill them too fast because you need at least 9 hooks (and if they DC or kill themselves because you're a killer they don't like with a build they don't like on a map they don't like or if their teammates don't rescue in time and thus your victims skip hook stages - well, sucks for your emblems I guess) but still gotta keep those chases short, you need to hit them a certain number of times (which screws over one-shot killers who are pretty much forced to play inefficient by not using their power all the time) but you also can't let them heal up too often (someone explain this contradiction please: you need to hit them for one emblem but if you let them heal up so you get enough hits you get penalized as well... has anyone actually thought this through?), you need to spam your power to gain Deviousness but sometimes can't use it against survivors at the same time (again, insta-down killers), you pretty much need to run slowdown perks because not losing gens quickly in the first few minutes is critical for your Gatekeeper emblem, ... - long story short, it's bullshit and says little to nothing about your skill as a player.
@@xxLiquidxxSnakExx I feel like there needs to be a balance of the two, as getting hooks off before but not getting kills still rewarded you, whereas now it's a detriment to go for hooks over kills. Like you said, old system kinda hurt one shot killers, but now one shot killers are doing really well. I mostly just don't like how drastic the games can be now, as you can be relatively new to the game, do well for a few games, and then get matched up against people way higher ranked. Either do away with the ranking system, or reward someone that's lower ranked for playing against people higher ranked in some way.
_Honestly_ as someone contemplating getting into the DBD (and beyond) content-creation scene some (and already have with art), Otz is a major inspiration to me. Part of the reason I never went full-send into RUclips, Streaming, etc. is I was worried I wasn't "energetic" enough, but Otz showed me you don't necessarily need to be the hyperactive memelord to make it, you just need to have a good personality, know your stuff, and make something that's enjoyable to watch.
@@DuskEalain Yes and honestly, many people (including me) prefer the less over the top hype people. I just stresses me out watching someone who keeps screaming and memeing and overreacting, no matter how good they are at what they do. It's much more fun and relaxing to watch someone who regularly forms complete sentences and talks at a normal volume to their viewers. I would probably even watch someone who's really bad at the game, as long as they are nice to others and have a good personality.
heres my thing with this mmr system, I'm a player who enjoys playing the game a lot and even trying new builds here and there, I'd like to think that my mmr as a survivor and killer are high, but when I want to play with my buddies who enjoy the game as well, they dont play that often and are pretty bad when they play but every time we queue we get slaughtered. My suggestion to this would just be to introduce a quickplay gamemode where there is no mmr and everything is just random like it was before thats what made this game unique and fun in my opinion.
Why do people keep saying this? You're bronze killer because you've barely played killer for the past month. The survivors you're playing against have actually been playing the game. We're one week away from rank reset so of course a lot of people have reached red naturally from playing the game. None of that has anything to do with matchmaking.
I used to run a bunch of off-meta builds with spfury/enduring, CrowdControl, make your choice, etc. But now at high MMR the games go by in 5 minutes without gen slowdown on the b-tier killers - and my matchmaking times were 7-10 minutes. I was still getting 2k every match - so I never decreased in rank but the games were soulcrushing. So now I'm running tinkerer/ruin/pop on basically every killer - and while I'm now doing better with much more 4ks and the games last longer with gen slowdown I'm sad to feel like 100+ perks are just locked for me. If they ever planned on doing something to fix how fast the games go without slowdown I would be interested - but they seem like they're 'content' with having 2k for every killer be the baseline - and I don't see them making any changes.
That's the fuckin problem with this sort of system. It just makes the game sweaty and punishes people for playing with meme builds and just overall trying to have fun. These devs fucked up massively.
People don't understand MMR. The point of it isn't to "climb" it, but to have fun - to be paired against equals depending on your play style. That's why you don't see your MMR. I like to go for 12 hooks whenever possible. If i get 8 hooks and 0 kills, it doesn't matter. I'll "lose" some MMR and next game i'll get paired against weaker survivors so that now i can go for 8 hooks and still get kills. It's a way for balancing. If you camp and tunnel, MMR will see it and give you harder opponents so your cheese strategy isn't as easy. The key for MMR is - don't think about it.
First thing I wanna say is I really appreciate the graphic you showed for the mmr and how the system works. It was very informative and helped me understand it better since I did have some misconceptions on it. As for my biggest gripe with the current system I'd have to say it's still the lack of transparency and rewards for your rank. I would like to at least have a rough idea where I am at to know whether I am improving at the game or not. Or knowing whether the system is accurately matching my teammates or opponents to my skill since I've had matches recently where I could play against survivors or killers who play really well then the next match have a nurse player who doesn't know how to blink. Without an idea of what my mmr is I don't know if this is because I'm at a lower mmr or if the killer was a high mmr on a different killer then decided to try nurse. I just really don't like the lack of understanding of what's going on, especially now that they have revealed what a win or loss is. Moving on to the subject of rewards, I think it's okay to have the grades be a separate thing that is only based on how much you play but, I think you should still be rewarded in some degree for playing well and climbing the invisible mmr ladder. The rewards could be anything, I would just like to get something for having to sweat while bringing more memey builds
There needs to be one of two things: no mmr and we get old dbd again, or there is casual and ranked modes. The latter seems more fun, though queue times may worsen for ranked.
Joke’s on you bud- the sweat squads and turbo try hard killers will just switch to casual because they think it’d be easier to abuse. Mark my words it would solve nothing. Now a mode where the killer and each survivor has to run no perks or addons except for their own teachables, and no duplicate survivors…. That, I think, would be interesting and the closest thing to fair this game has ever seen
@@richt7525 If you could only use a particular survivor's teachables, woudn't you only ever see Meg, Bill, David, and either Laurie/Dwight/Jake? Plus killers would know that anyone who isn't Laurie would not have DS, and anyone who isn't Bill wouldn't have BT, so games would likely become a tunnel fest. It would also be quite boring to instantly know what every killer and survivor is running just based on their character
@@louis595 You say it would be boring, i disagree. Killers and survivors are carried by their perks, the same damn perks, for every. single. game. It sucks and being able to force individuality to each survivor, and having to actually strategize based upon which killer you face is more compelling to me. What we have right now is boring, would be my argument. I should not be able to accurately guess that all 4 friggin survivors in every game are most likely going to have BT, DS, Unbreakable, and dead hard. It's mind numbingly, depressingly boring. We need a shake up
Surviving and Killing doesn't determine skill, look at Clauds and Dwights can hide and do gens at a inefficient rates and I'll die after an 8 minute chase and dies without being unhooked. The game promotes SWF play not solo play. SURVIVING AND KILLING should not play effect. The problem was Max points in categories. The change was the wrong change. Killer system punishes YOU FOR PLAYING DIFFERENT KILLERS...why learn Pinhead or Piggy, when Blight and Clown are maxed and have add ons and perks. Game punishes me for having DLC....wtf. MMR isn't BAD, it's just how they went about it. Now what if we categorize perks and get rid of dumb Tiers. Limiting perk types into categories. So we can't have ONLY EXHAUSTION PERKS or ONLY GEN REGRESSION BUILDS. Or give a point value like in BLACK OPS 2 with classes that have max slots so you can't grab meta perks all the time. Or just DITCH ADD ONS? TOO MUCH RNG for skill to be measured. Perks are the only thing that are RNG cuz it's always the same damn 6 Survivor Perks or 8 Killer Perks.
@@alexh6767 not a terrible idea, but that will only increase lobby times. SWF isn't a problem if you play to their altruism being higher than solos. The issue is them sharing location of the killer. If they just gave survivors Kindred in base kit, solo survivors will do SO MUCH better. Just elevate solo queue so we can start buffing killers more appropriately. Best way to handle the game is lessen RNG and buff solo queue IF they want this MMR stuff. Addons are too much of a game changer. Grey ones are bad, and Irris can ruin any hope. Purples or Greens are fine, but some can be problematic. JUST TOO MUCH probability
@@alexh6767 It blows my mind that people have a problem with that idea and will staunchly fight it. It’s like, you get the advantage of playing swf, I should at the very least know if you are. Plus, it would actually take a lot of stress off playing Killer. If I see it’s 4 solos, I’m not going to try as hard, I might even bring in an off-meta build. But as it is right now, I pretty much have to assume I’m playing against at least a 2 man swf.
I play at iridescent 5 and get consistent 4ks while I play nemesis and main him but when I want to play my favourite killer clown I can't because of MMR and so I don't like MMR and its terrible as I have a noob account for learning killers like nurse and so.its at ash 3 and if I 4k like 2 times I play against iridescent swf like yes skill based matches
My biggest pet peeve with the system remains that we cannot see our own MMR. The thing I loved most about Ranks was having even a vague idea of how good I am at the same. With MMR being even more segmented, I really do want to know how I stack up against the best players, but now we don't have any idea how we rank at all!
It's a team vs solo game, so surely it should have been an ELO system based on that: everyone starts off with X (survivors, per-killer, whatever). Define what constitutes a "win" for the survivor side, what constitutes a "win" for the killer, and any draw conditions. Then the points the killer gains must be equal to the sum of the points lost by the survivors and vice-versa. And the notion is that equal ELO should be a 50/50 chance for each side. 100 points difference: 64/36. Having it as a series of 1v1s seems backwards. This solves the meta thing--if you keep picking an off-meta killer/build, your ELO will trend downwards. Then the devs can also look at the incidence of killers/perks/add-ons at each ELO to work out what's the most useful loadouts for winning and how to balance it.
Before this update I used to genuinely have fun in DbD which I have been struggling to do so for years and now all the fun is gone, every game feels so stressful and sweaty as a killer, it's constant struggle to enjoy the matches against much better players than you are and swfs.
I used to just play a few games a month, because everytime I got close to red ranks again, it started to just be stressful to play, now it's stressful all the time, so why play it just to get frustrated?
That's kind of funny to me, because the survivors have been way to easy and I've climbed to iridescent grade. You really must be a much better killer than me, because it has gotten boring from how easy they were. I also have a hard time killing though since I know it can be frustrating as survivor to die after trying your best
I suspect they have a queue timer limit that throws MMR based out the window after a certain time. Currently MMR based is a joke - I see more unbalanced matches now than before.
A couple days ago I was playing solo queue and this default Meg just spent the game hiding at the edges of the map. When I was on hook, the killer was no where near but she was still hiding behind a tree and crouch walked as I entered the struggle phase. She eventually unhooked me and she went to the edge of the map again, I followed her so she could heal me, but she didn’t want to. She did nothing all game and let us all die on hook, then the killer has the audacity to give HER the hatch. I’m pretty sure she was a bot because she ran away when the killer let her escape, even though hatch was right there.
When they said it was big data, i was hopeful, but this is a little simple. That being said, otz makes a great point about how this system works out well in the long run given that your death can boost your friends mmr and help you on the whole. What if it were to have the same win/loss condition as the base, but have it also include weights that affect point payouts (i.e. an insta heal medkit will reduce payout by 25%, or killer payouts are reduced by a certian percentage based on how long the killer is within 18 meters of a survivor) Devs can adjust the mmr parameters to discourage degenerate tactics (i.e. facecamping) and to encourage skill
I feel like every other DBD creator I watch overreacted about this, the thing I appreciate most about Otz is his optimism/positive attitude he almost always has about things
@@mojolmao1752 really I'm rank 1 in both dude you need to fucking chill also yeah it's not good but you people act like this game has had a good ranking system ever which it hasn't
I've taken a vow to not use ruin for a long time because I knew that if I take it, It'd be too powerful and I feel like I can't play without it. I also hear from my friends who are survivors that ruin isn't that much fun to go against, which I can kind of see when the killer can easily win by one hooking near a gen at 5 or 4 gens. When you mentioned the part that playing nice gets rewarded with people who sweats harder, that hits too close to home man. I'm glad you were able to put how I feel about the MMR into words Otz...
This system doesn’t allow for “fun.” It promotes the same builds, tunneling, etc. It’s hard to play against killers when they don’t focus on anything but kills. I really like Scott Jund’s Skill Ration system (adding values to powerful perks, add ons, items, and killers). It’s possible the devs just don’t want to put that much time into it
It'd require a whole rework to do that. Imagine you are in a lobby with weak perks on and the killer shows up with similar stats. Then everyone changes their perks and addons to the best before the match. I think the best way to play is to just play the game. If you want to fool around and have fun expect to lose rank until your fooling around is at a balanced spot against the killers. Once you want to play competitively then you'll stop killers until you reach a match that is around the equivalent. Is it a perfect system, nope. Another system that would work is a non rank matchmaking system where you can go to practice (not against friends of course) but that doesn't gain you anything but maybe BPs
This just introduces the same elo hell that any other game has, low level teammates will let you die and if you die you can’t get higher to better teammates so even if you’re better you will be stuck in low mmr especially with no reset or placement matches
That's exactly how I see it, I've got around 600 hours of gameplay but most players I'm matched with don't even reach 100 hours, so while they stay crouched half of the game I always end aggroing the killer and dying first. Tbh it seems I'm playing with more experienced teammates lately, so I'm hopeful.
@@clawer626 Yes there is no 1 point where everyone is just suddenly good, especially because people can have a bad game every now and again, but the higher your "mmr" the more likely you are to be paired with better players. At least that's the goal of MMR systems.
Thank you Otz! You always have these discussions in a calm and reasonable manner. Something I think more people in the DBD community could do with learning. Much respect ❤️
They asked a lot of specific questions in the survey; like “If a casual and ranked matchmaking mode were implemented, what percentage of time would you spend in both” and so on. I hope the actual player base is as big as they think for 2 separate matchmaking modes
im pretty sure almost everybodys would choose playing on the ranked system anyway, who wants teammates that wont bother saving you and are useless lmao
I like the idea of the point system. But the things that award points should be more varied. For example: (All categories cap at +10 or -10) *SURVIVORS* Completing a gen/gate = +2 Winning chases = +1 Losing chase = -1 Heals/Safe unhooks/protection hits = +1 Unsafe unhook/idle = -3 Failing a skillcheck = -1 Dying = -5 Surviving! = gives a bonus 50% of total points (so if you died but did everything you still get points, and if you survived but did nothing all game you won't be rewarded much) *KILLER* Hooking a survivor = +1 Proximity to survivor = -2 Gens left at end = +2 Losing a chase = -2 Winning chase = +1 Sacrificing! = (Listed below) 0 kills = -15 1 kill = -5 2 kills = 0 3 kills = +5 4 kills = +15 *BOTH SIDES* Bringing very rare item/add-ons = -1 Bringing ultra rare item/add-ons = -3 * Bringing ultra rare perk = -2 Bringing very rare perk = 0 Bringing a rare perk (or lower) = +2 (*only If they were to bring back the individual perk rarity, e.g. "OP/meta perks" like Deadhard/Ruin tier 3 = ultra rare... Unused perks like No one left behind/Bloodhound tier 3 = rare) This way, each side has a hard cap of +53 for a "perfect game", an average game may give a low amount of points or lose a few, and a very bad game will reduce it by a fair bit and put you with players your level
Ash isn't a rank, it's a grade, it doesn't mean anything for your mmr. Survivors will naturally be Iri towards the end of the season, as you can't drop in grade, if you play on the 13th it'll be Ash vs Ash. I believe mmr also doesn't reset anymore like how the rank reset used to do, only way to make your games easier is to lose a lot.
In the only system as a rank 20-16 killer I was always go against red rank survivors. I don’t know why everyone thinks this system is so much worse than that.
what I've noticed, as a killer main, is that as soon as the mmr went into effect my matches got a lot easier. With the old system i was probably around a 50-60% win rate, and now I'm sitting at a 85-90% average win rate. And I don't know why. I can't tell if I've just improved, which I think I am, but not that dramatically, or if the system is giving me less experienced survs for some reason.
I've been playing DbD since launch and tend to mostly play Killer but still play a decent chunk of Surv (70/30). At this point I believe I am quite decent at the game and I sit on the upper-end of the MMR spectrum. With this said, I have not touched the game in nearly two months. I was extremely excited for pinhead, played him on the PTB and loved his kit (even it being slightly underwhelming). I bought him and the Chatterer skin the second I could and played a bunch of matches. Slowly but surely the matches became more and more of slogs to get through. Groups of SWF's using the same build we've all seen a million times over. Insta-medkits, purple flashlights, Brand-new parts, and keys. I even began to pretty consistently go against hackers who would infinitely stun me and could wiggle so hard I could not hook them. It got the the point that even whenever I won, even whenever I 4k'ed, I did not feel good about it. I was trying so hard and not experimenting because I no longer could without being absolutely crushed by the best teams. Like Otz said in the video, I try whenever I play, I attempt to win but I don't rely on busted perks, add-ons, and s-tier killers. I just try to have a fun match. I used to say in DbD you'd have fun matches and then the occasional bad match...now it's the opposite. I so desperately want to love DbD again, to be excited for new killers and skins, but honestly, if it doesn't change I might have to be done for a while, which really sucks. I just hope things change for the better.
Average solo player here, it feels and looks either the same for me, or worse than before, I play killer too, and I either get totally new players or sweaty SWFs squads with high grades, on the same killer one match after the other.
Yeah it really does not make make sense. One match I went against Otz as survivor and literally next match I went against someone struggling to read scratchmarks and do the tiles. Same with killer, first game is 4 man "team" and next is people accidental slow vaulting and running to walls. It's just all over the place you never know you will you get against you.
@@Tobykaani It's not all over the place, the system is maintaining your 50 percent winrate. That is exactly what you should expect from a system designed with the goal of a 50% winrate for both sides. it can't risk giving people fair matches that could go either way, so it heavy-handedly gives you soft balls for a win, and then otz so you're guaranteed to lose. 50/50
I personaly think they should something like this: Make a Ranked match and a option for a Public match so people what they want to play, if feeling like swetting or wanting to have fun. Public match: you get matched with survivivors or killers no matter their rank/skill level. Ranked match: puts you with survivors or killers of your rank/skill level.
I'm just wondering like - ppl from BHVR say it's too complex to implement a system that will take more things into consideration while assigning MMR points. But they are able to distinguish from camping killers and non-camping killers (emblems), they can check if the chases happen and assign them to individual survivors, they can check for items, and so on for the archives. Why not implement a system, that for example, checks if chases were distributed among different survivors and if, in the meanwhile, some other survivors were chased. Even if the chases are on and off - you can still determine if only one survivor was chased and approximately - for how long (e.g. by defining a time cap between which chases with the same survivor have to happen). Even more so - you have terror radius that you can take into consideration - if terror radius of a killer doesn't change, but it's still on top of a survivor that constantly moves, you can probably determine, with high probability, that this individual is still being chased. I reckon that either there is a problem at BHVR with priorities or that the code in this project must be in a state that is very hard to manage if they really cannot use something that they have already implemented in one place and use it in the other. I just think that standing behind the "It's too complex" statement is really not that good of an excuse, because you really CAN and SHOULD take into account more than just WON or LOST factors, especially in this game which literally has values assigned to items, killers and add-ons that determine whether those are "better" or "worse" than the other ones. You could probably solve this issue by adding more good perks, add-ons, and so on, and so forth (as well as balancing the existing ones) so that you don't see the same builds over and over again for the whole time while climbing in the ranks, which is probably the most problematic and annoying thing in this game. I agree that you should "play to win" and with everything "OP" that you have in order to rank up, but the "real OP things" in this game are just too rare and repeatable, which makes the META really really really boring.
But wasn't it based on pips in the old system? You could climb a rank without getting an escape if you got a lot of points in lightbringer, benevolent, evader and like silver in unbroken.
@@Souleater153GAME yeah the thing is when you camp you only get one maybe 2 kills depending on your matches obviously, like if you had survivors that did everything perfect you are probably only going to kill one or two of them unless you are running blight with tinkerer ruin undying and corrupt
Ive had plenty of instances where I get a 4k off a single early game basement play, and derank because I "Played to good" and didnt drag the game out to farm bloodpoints.
@@spicymajsy I'm not talking about pips I'm talking about overall experience, you will still get the shit amount of points if you chase the killer for 100% of the time, the new system makes it a tiny bit easier that's really about it, it's pretty much like the old system but without the pips, the pips actually made it a tiny bit more difficult to rankup, but even then anyone can play the game for a certain amount of time and adventually you will reach the highest rank/mmr. Everything is still based on the same points it's just now instead of seeing your progress with pips all they did was just hide that information.
Ah this was helpful. Since MMR was switched on my survivor games have been really hard and killer games have been comically easy. Pre-MMR I would quite often just let survivors out and play killers I struggle with just to get a daily. I expect my opening killer MMR level was therefore very low and is taking a long time to build up. As a survivor, I escaped more often than not pre-MMR so my opening level was probably higher than it really should be and I’m constantly getting paired with killers that are much better than me. I guess it will start to make more sense in time but it feels a little slow to react at the moment
I’m competitive and I don’t like being punished for doing well. This system has major flaws and the game is giving me no motivation to continue playing.
Why is being matched against better more efficient players seen as punishment? How is it a reward to stomp out players that are clearly worse than you?
I feel the new MMR is more of a killer MMR than a survivor MMR if it is based on survival/kills. They already have a semi-decent emblem system, so I don't see why also taking input from that would be a problem. If they want kills/survival to weight more heavy, sure, but doesn't mean you have to 100% ignore the rest.
They need to add in vanilla anti-camp and tunnel mechanics, because your MMR can tank quite easily by being tunneled and camped 3 matches in a row. The only way to counteract that is to hide untill someone else is being camped or tunneled, but the more you hide, the bigger your chances are of escaping through hatch, so you just hide some more and eventually do nothing. The BP changes I suggested(to create a pool of BP for survivors, that way someone who is being chased for 5 gens and then camped to death earns a bit more than 8k BP) have been berated for also benefitting survivors who dont do shit. Even though a BP pool for survivors makes sense. Just like MMR based on how well the team did makes sense. If you die after 5 gens and your death caused 3 teammates to escape, that should be rewarded.
Survivor: - Gen progress done by you - Safe hook rescues done by you - Healing done by you - During a chase, gather points for the above named actions done by other survivors - All survivors receive extra points based on the amount of survivors escaped. Even if you don't escape - you'll receive those points when other survivors manage to escape Killer: When getting an 4k => Receive max points Otherwise Receive points based on your momentum: - Downs - Hooks - Kills These actions are differently value depending on which killer you play and how many gens are left (5 to 4, 3 to 2, 1 to 0). Example: Receive a lot of points for downs, hooks and kills when 5 to 4 gens need to be repaired and a little less points than that when 3 to 2 gens need to be done. When you play Trapper or Hag then you still receive a lot of points when 3 to 2 gens need to be done.
I feel like a lot of the issues are inherent in most if not all forms of ranked. It seems some of these problems could be solved by having another game mode that isn't ranked. I know there has been talk about this saying there isn't enough players so this will make queues take forever, but how many is enough? Also a thing that confuses me is in any other game that has ranked if you are wining consistently then you will be paired with people who are also wining consistently and yet in DBD people are upset by the fact that they are paired with people "try harding" or "sweating" that is how ranked works regardless of the game. Just because you are either super skilled naturally or have a metric ton of hours in the game that you are capable of winning without using the optimal perks/add-ons/offerings doesn't mean everyone else can or wants to play the way you do. In the end I can only see three fixes: add another game mode (be it casual or ranked with no perks/add-ons/items), add a ban list that bans op or meta perks/add-ons/items to encourage more diverse play, or make a more in depth 'looking-for-group' on discord for custom matches that is categized by how you want to play the game anywhere from trying out silly builds to sweating it out.
This system is anything but better. I get that it would be very hard to take all the variables into account but it is their job. If I loop a killer for 5 gens and then go down at the end, that should be a good boost to my mmr and good oof to the killers mmr. Like you said perks and killers played should be taken into account. Just like doing gens, totems and helping teammates should be.
While I do agree, I see what otz is saying in the sense that, the "Guy who loops for 5 gens but dies in the end" scenario isn't a very likely scenario to begin with. Like, if you're good enough to loop a killer for 5 gens, then you can probably loop them all the way to the exit gates or hatch more often than not. If the skill gap between you and the killer is that huge, then you'll survive 9 times out of 10, and won't be matched up with people in that skill level again. There may be that 1 in a hundred time it gets you, and I'll definitely rage and Otz-Punch my monitor when it does😂
@@jrthehunter4309 we can say that about every scenario but that does not change the fact that this system accounts none of the things that can come into play during a match. While the developers already have some metrics they can use from the bloodpoints system. So they threw data they can collect from every player straight out of the window.
something i noticed after this system came out is that it became extremely difficult for me to play as a killer? for reference, i had like over 100 hours into dbd and mostly played survivor solo. when i started to try playing killer more, it slowly eased me into more difficult survivors as it was like.. figuring out my skill range, sorta? i didn’t play too many games as killer, but it was more balanced for me and i’d usually get at least two kills each match. once the new mmr came out, i suddenly have struggled getting more than a single kill, if that, in most games as killer even though i hadn’t made any improvements since the old system. im not sure if this is entirely coincidental or if it’s putting me against harder survivors bc im a high-ranked survivor now, or if it was flaws from the old system, but something changed when the mmr came out and it doesn’t make me even want to attempt playing killer due to how difficult and tedious it is for me to play as one
A huge issue I have with it is the lack of transparency within the game. I can't see if the matching makes sense. I can't see if people are squaded together and skewing the average. I can't dispute results if I can't tell if anything is being calculated correctly.
I don't agree that this system doesn't encourage hiding. Now that the only thing that matters is staying alive you're actively encouraged to hide to ensure you live at the cost of your team dying.
Survivors cant win against any decent killer without all 4 teammates, if the entire team dies because of that once person, then they all rank down for easier matches. That survivor will never go up and ruin good players games.
@@InsaneToats From an individual survivor's perspective it makes no difference if the teams wins or not. At least, assuming they care about MMR. From their perspective actions that reduce the team's chance of winning are logical.
I have only recently got back into the game, and it is fun as hell don't get me wrong, but honestly my issue is why is it hidden I would rather be told that my MMR is high or low so I know that I am the one who is doing bad or not.
My issue with the new system, it's either a killer who would give you a challenge and survivors who really struggle, or vice versa, having survivors who would bully the killer for not being as experienced as the survivors
My two concerns going into this, 1) 3000 mmr killer loses to 1800mmr team, this would mean HUGE mmr loss to killer. 2) killer face camping with noed and blood warden on reserve can guarantee 2k and are likely to even get a 3k if the remaining survivors do not leave immediately when they can, More details: they fixed the negative ranking effects of going against a bad killer that can’t get any hooks indeed. What about bad killers that merely face camp the weakest link or someone who got unlucky (in terms of latency or sandbag or whatever). Now not only does the killer do better when face camping but survivors fare even worse if the killer brings noed and blood warden. Not to poo on the purpose of perks like insidious but I think the game could really benefit from both, allowing BT to work on Kobe and from gradual increase to successful Kobe odds based on killers lingering proximity. It’s hardly OP since a Kobe can happen once per survivor and is totally fair based on the current ranking system. It’s not the perfect solution, just the best bandaid that can be given without doing an overhaul on how many of the other factors work.
From reading your comments, I can almost feel that the worst part of this new MMR isn't even the matchmaking itself. It seems like already existing issues / core imbalances just become so much worse under this system. 😓
Save us father Otz 😭
With this ranking system something like weighted perks, items and add-ons could be a factor for the outcome of a match. These weights could be inferred from the win rate and/or how likely you are to survive with those.
this mmr system is especially bad, when you play a new killer. i am superbad as pinhead, but i get survivors that are almost as good as those with my strongest killer. its just discouraging to learn new things.
Uh. My comment was deleted? I was talking about the TrueSkill 2 rating system that can take into account items, perks, add-ons, player performance, DC's and SWFs towards the expected outcome of a match. My previous comment doesn't make sense without it.
The funniest thing is that devs (even if they listen to this one) would rather delete this new system and revert to old one and stay there, than fixing core issues.
I think a very important issue which was glossed over is that this new MMR system encourages selfishness, and punishes altruism.
Very true. Also rewards securing kills by any means over getting many hooks. It's maybe one of the worst parts of it.
Yeah I hardly see survivors go for saves they could very clearly accomplish during the late game. I've had matches where NOED isn't active, there are 3 survivors with Borrowed Time at full health and 1 is hooked, but the 3 will just leave through the gate instead of all going to save the person who is hooked rather closeby, even though they could definately rescue them and all still escape with BT and bodyblocking.
Yeah, I played pretty decent against an oni today. And he facecamped a surv in the end. I rescued that surv, and took the chase (unfortunatly got hit thorugh the pallet with his power). He wasnt rly good with his power. And all 3 three of them were just sitting at the exit gate and they left me. Easy one hook death.
@@notOtzdarva Wait, it's kill based and not hook based now? Why would you NOT camp hooks to rank up then
@@afrocious8281 people do and it makes it for a very unfun experience
My biggest concern with this new MMR system is that it highly benefits insta-down camping killers such as Bubba. Although it’s on a player to player basis the amount of annoyance I have knowing as hard as I try with pig, some guy who is fine with sitting in front of a hook getting 2-3 kills a game will probably end up higher than me on the MMR scale regardless of skill difference. As well when I reach higher level survivor I fear I’ll see more and more players playing like this. I already have started to see it and my survivor is certainly not extremely high MMR
They did say they're trying to make that playstyle less rewarding, fingers crossed.
@@notOtzdarva thanks for the insight I was not aware they said anything about it!
make that playstyle less rewarding but they need to nerf some things survivors can do too
My question is there even a reason to have high mmr? As far as i know the new "rank" system only rewards playing not winning, and with us not being able to see mmr does it even really matter truly? Does it matter if im working for an invisible number that doesnt reward you for being high or low?
Not to mention Tombstone(Piece) Myers...
The thing I see throughout this whole system is that Kill-Escape MMR is EXTREMELY encouraging tunneling off hooks. I try not to because I want a “Fair” and fun game, but more kills means more MMR points. Get ready for BT and DS on EVERY survivor.
You say like most try harder don’t already run that lol
Get ready for tunnelling killers and dc's on every match too lol
Most of my surv games is me being facecamped, or getting tunnel like crazy.
Bro after they mentioned this on the QNA, it was literally tunnel city and face camp madness! I promise you I’ve never seen more salt on this game till after that happed…🤦🏽♂️
Every survivor already runs bt, and the fact that bt exists strongly discourages hitting that survivor in favor of the person that rescued them
Me with 0 matches as wraith: "hmm i should get newbies as opponents, right". looks at survivor hours: "3500h, 2700h, 1400h, private" ..... well okay.
That's exactly me as a survivor. I have about 1000 hours, and I am constantly matched with 2000-3000 hour killers EVERY MATCH.
@@TheMissingPluto that’s not nearly as bad
@TheDirtRacer There is, and the highest I've gone against is 5k hours. I'm in the same boat as a lot of commenters where we either get completely crushed, or completely crush, there doesn't seem to be a lot of "2 escapes, 2 kills" like the devs claim they want to balance around.
@TheDirtRacer itsno t only that though, he has never played wraith before, 1k hours on any survivor is the same as they have no unique mechanics
@@90bubbel60 that's fair, my point was mostly that this matchmaking doesn't feel any different than the old system.
The old system felt better. I usually felt like i was actually going against people of my rank and skill with the last system. Now its one game of smooth brains and then the next game is big brains and the cycle continues. I can never just have fun against people of similar skill
Its a given for ANY new ranked system. Give it a few weeks for people to naturally fall into rank where they belong.
@@EnragedOxygen I don't think it's that simple. We complain because the grind for staying or ranking up is gonna be worse than ever. I literally want to lose to get chill or baby survivors to have fun, this game is so tryhard now that's not even funny
@@ATM_Jack I was specifically adressing his problem of unbalanced matches. What you describe is a standard probled/benefit of skill based matchmaking. Which might be not the best option for this game.
@@EnragedOxygen yeah yeah, I understand that, and I disagree. I think MMR is gonna be shit forever
@@EnragedOxygen I mean, I agree that is not the best option, but I disagree the fact that will naturally balance itself
There should be small bnus, say +3 MMR at the end of match for:
-person with most unhooks
-not bringing any item
-person with longest chase time
-person who healed OTHERS the most
For killer:
-hooking everyone once (maybe +5 pts)
That would reward proper gameplay
I'd prefer it if game balance rewarded "proper" gameplay instead. Some strategies like camping, tunneling and SWF are just disproportionally effective and this MMR system is highlighting those flaws.
I'd prefer if they were bloodpoint rewards instead.
Why should we reward people for not bringing items when it's literally a part of the game. That's like rewarding a football player for bringing a helmet.
@@whyitsimportant80 bringing a item makes the game easier. Let’s not forget the game is already survivor sided in the first place.
I think this is quite a cool idea, since a lot of people are annoyed about how the new MMR promotes selfishness for survivors and camping for killers, maybe instead you could be rewarded in MMR for each hook (as killer) healing a single health state, unhook, etc. Only thing that could be reconsidered is not bringing any item, they should rework the actual items and add-ons themselves instead
I understand and appreciate your POV, however, having a Skilled Based Matchmaking System that is based on escapes and kills, which doesn't prove skill, is not a fun system. It's easy to say "well you'll escape the majority" but the reality is, I've been dying on first hook late game while teammates with no hooks just leave. It promotes an extremely selfish playstyle and in a game where solo queue is already horrendous, it limits the experience that much more. One option would to be that each survivor gets more ELO depending on how many survivors escape
@Source Dasher Well he can't openly shittalk the game either because he's a Fog Whisperer.
@Source Dasher You are absolutely right. Otz is basically owned by BHVR and is getting paid to say shit like "oh yeah the game is balanced OVERALL, you will win MOST of your games IF blah, blah, blah, be nice to the game developers". Otz is a nice guy but he is a hypocrite and it is really annoying to watch.
@@ThePunisher8814 How is him saying that its balanced overall hypocritical?
@Source Dasher "real job" I hate when people say that. Anything u put work into, no matter how small it is, that gives u money is a job. There isnt such thing as a fake or real job
@@dazai2734 Because everybody(including him) knows the game is not balanced and it will never be due to the greedy braindead developers who couldn't make even a little change in the matchmaking since the game had been released. They can't even fix their old shit but they decided to give another objective to the killer just like that, plus they removed cleansing for survivors(since blessing does the same thing but it also gives you an OP buff). Ah yes and let's nerf some B tier killers as well for no reason. The devs know they are incompetent of fixing basic things and lags(proof of that is console gameplay right now). The game is terribly optimized and after every update it's getting even worse even for PC players. So the devs embraced the ugly truth and acknowledged that they are useless so the only thing they've been doing for the last couple years is buffing survivors(obviously because they make them more money since a survivor is more likely to buy a cosmetic in game since you can actually see it in third person). But heeey, at least we are getting new cosmetics every week... Yeah who need balance when you can get a skin for 10 bucks.
I've only gotten 2 solo survivor expierences in the MMR: either we get completely slaughtered or be stomp the killer. There is no in between.
@@braido I think they mean survivor matches go either of those two ways. Not that they have only played 2 matches. Though I will say the first time I read their statement, I interpreted it the same way as you.
Which means something is wrong in the game balance.
Exactly my experience as well.
Ive had that with the previous rank system as killer. it was either way too easy and boring or a boosted genrushing swf team on haddonfield that made it disappointingly impossible to win. Now its better but i still meet those hardcore swf every now and then
Well for the system to work properly you need a bigger sample size unfortunately. For me as a killer after about 50 games solo groups and swf groups are nearly indistinguishable.
Since MMR is out I went from playing about 10h a week to 1-3 games a week. Getting better just doesnt feel rewarding for me anymore.
Before the System: I get better and I excape more often / get more kills in future games --> I am happy that I am improving.
With the System: I get better and because of it I escape less in future games (Because I get matched against way better killers) and as Killer way more matches are a complete sweatfest, which I can not enjoy for too much games. It doesn't feel rewarding for me anymore to have good games, because I always think "damn I destroyed these guys and the next matches will be hell for me because of it now".
For me DbD is/was a super casual game for fun. But with this system I actually get stressed from playing it. So what's the point anymore? I want to play video games to relax and chill alone or with my friends. But after weeks of this system being out and certainly not getting fixed soon, I pretty mich completey stopped playing this game. I still watch streams, but I just can't use my freetime on something which isn't really fun to me. There are better options, like getting insulted by my League of Legends mates.
I stopped playing just before pinhead was released so I don't have a clue how mmr works. Sounds lame tho
"I actually get stressed from playing it", sad truth
I just can't get behind this though process of punishment/reward. "My godlike skill was rewarded by being matched against noobs" "My godlike skill is now punished against even sweatier more godlier gods."
""damn I destroyed these guys and the next matches will be hell for me because of it now".
For me DbD is/was a super casual game for fun"
Bro...how much casual fun do you think the guys that you destroyed were having. People keep saying this shit but never look at the other side. If you're queueing all day slam dunking noobs enjoying your casual fun experience, those noobs are experiencing the exact opposite.
If you’re serious about wanting to play the game to relax/chill out just die to the entity and/or let survivors escape at the end of the match. That’s what I do and I always get in to super casual games on both sides but then again I actually play just to have fun the only times I kill someone is when they’re being toxic. No offense but to me it kinda sounds like you just wanna stomp people.
"I went from 10h a week to 1-3 games a week" i see this as an absolute win tbh
The issue I have with the explanation they gave about there being "too many variables" is that that just isn't true
Chases: the game can already count how long a chase has been going for, and notifies when someone escapes or goes down
Doing totems/gens: It isn't hard to track the percentage of gens you did in a match or how many totems you did
Protection hits/blinding a killer to save someone else: same as the totems and gens
Perks/Add-ons: This one could be based on something as simple as the percentage of wins/losses over the entirety of the community
At this point, it isn't that there are too many variables to make a good system, it's that BHVR either doesn't have the staff that wants to actually try to make a functioning MMR system or none of them are equipped to make equations that make sense with the variables given
With chase specifically. Sometimes the best thing to do is to drop a chase, so a system that says you did bad for doing so isn't fully accurate
yeah if it takes them 5 years to figure out a system like this then they are either lazy or no one wants to work at BHVR
None of those stats corolate 1 to 1 with skills. The variables theyre talking about arent trackable stats, but the complicated nuances of how the stats interact to show skill. They cant really make the perfect skill adjusted mmr system without being perfect players themselves. And perfect players dont exist.
Also, mmr is supposed to be like this. It only counts wins and losses so that you know it puts people in the right spot eventually. A few games have tried to go against this like overwatch. But each of them had huge growing pains where people could hold 75% or 25% winrates while not moving in rating by accidentally manipulating the system.
@@legolast.spencer6979 witnessed this last night playing. I was switching between survivors mid chase and hitting all of them accordingly, yet I ended up getting a garbage chase rating because I kept breaking chase so often, it's bs
@@legolast.spencer6979 it doesn't have to negatively impact the killer. It just has to work for the survivor. So if a survivor is chased all game and dies. it doesn't negatively affect their mmr just because they got tunneled.
The main issue is simply that it doesn't measure skill. Not more difficult than that. They made the system as basic as it can be, and calls it a day
yeah, that's almost rude to ignore everything a survivor did in a match i think. you rescued your team, did gens to avoid 3-genning, took hits for your injured teammate, ran with killer for 3 gens, cleansed hex totems, escaped from basement but died because of a mori or just wanted to sacrifice yourself for your teammate? well f*ck you then. Like bruh who thought it was a good way to judge skill?? I really don't get it
from killer's pov it's somewhat okey-ish to measure kills, even though it would be more honest to count hooks in my opinion
@@loonywolf2012 ever since sbmm the amount of insidious bubba has tripled ... they get easy kills with 12k points and a 4k + minus pip yet they are the best player in dbd according to sbmm. kills say nothing - they should wage hooks over kills
dbd needs to listen to their community more, there’s a happy medium between doing anything to appease your community and ignoring their opinions completely. for the sake of dbd’s longevity, they need to find it.
only way to make them realize this is to stop buying their half ass dlc and crumby cosmetics. i know i'm not alone in not giving them any of my money in months and months but we need more people to do this.
@MrHolland apparently “grades” aka new ranks don’t actually affect mmr and is only a representation of playtime that season
they wont cause dbd has no competition so they dont need to try, its like youtube, they can do whatever they want and people will keep coming back cause its the only thing like it
@MrHolland to get mothly rewards. were you under a rock or just ignored the patch notes and explanation the devs gave about MMR?
@MrHolland to reward players for their playtime during the month (they are pretty low rewards tho). In case you haven't realized, since they introduced this new pip system which does not affect matchmaking, they made it so they you can't depip out of your current rank.
My experience with the MMR has been either the team dies extremely quickly, or we all get out no problem, it’s either going against a brand new killer or one of the best killers, no one my skill level
yeah, I feel that too. The MMR score seems to update by a lot. I never got matchmaked with newbies with
Literally every match I end up with 20k points and my randoms end up with Max 12k points and some with only 8k, no tier 3 perks at all, or anything, and look I have one thousand hours and I'm quite above the average (used to be iridescent 3 before new MMR) and my randoms, they are literally horrible at the game.
As a Killer main it feels the same to me. I get games were I get 2 Hooks and others were I kill everyone...
This is also very demotivating for new survivors. I only have 60h in this game, with 2 lvl 50 Survivors, playing with a friend who has 16h in the game (half of the time killer gameplay). Most of the time we got matched with 2 players who got like 50-100 h on average (Ash - Bronze 4), while the killer had 500-1000+ h (and Iridescend 1-3 rank).This lead to many games without any gen nearly done and a very frustating experience.
On the other hand we got some matches with at least on 500h+ survivor and a killer with mostly no skill/experience. This lead to a very fast gen-rushing game, with almost no chases, hooks and 3-4 survivors escaped.
How are you supposed to get better in a game, if you A get absolutely abliterated by the killer without any chance or getting carried so hard, that there is no learning of mistakes.
Before that patch, playing DBD felt so much more rewarding, because most of the time, the opponent(s) had somewaht the same skills and experience. Sure, there have had been unbalanced games, but not as many as now.
That’s how it is as killer lol I go against potatoes who barely get one generator done or I sweat against pros lol there’s no consistency
I literally started playing dbd just this month. I feel like the system is kinda balanced when im playing survivor. But when I play killer, even though I am bronze with low two digits playing time in about 6/10 games I face people with combined 2000+ hours and at least 2 red ranks where I can kill 1 of the maximum, I constantly get flashlighted, perfectly looped, trolled etc. The other 3/10 are vs very bad players where I kill all of them with ease and 1/10 feels actually "fair" for both sides ...
I feel most balanced matches are during the week days while insane BS is on weekends, when people play like crazy. I would recommend dodging all ttv-players, streamers are always with a 4 premade, super sweaty and will be bad winners and losers. A lot of streamers have bad skills, they just win because they get insane info throigh sharing feed and discord which according to devs, is not fair for the killer.
@@nrhildija4145 its funny how much truth there is in ur comment but u can also take advantage of this.
first of they will most likely bring a survivor sided map for their beloved twitch streamer so a negation offering or killer sided map can counteract this.
always try to catch the streamer! they all let go of gens to go for the rescue - fake the pickup to hit the guy with a beamer.
I feel you bro. I was Ash 4 killer and red rank 1 enemy. Got bullied hard 🤢
These swfriend groups have certain time zones they log on and play. For US it is around 6-11 pm EST. For Europe, prime time is around 2-3pm US est. Outside that time zone, the system will not have a lot of choices so will match people up with who is available, which tend to produce uneven matches. For swf groups, it is important to play hag, trapper, or other instant/faster chase killers like huntress/cannibal. It reduces the amount of stress, depending on your playstyle. If you don't like flashlights, use the mod to make them drop their items or franklin's demise perk. The issue is that many new players won't even know these perks exist, and the upper performing swfs have learned by testing, what build is the most difficult for killers to work against.
I have been playing mostly killer for 2 months.
Cannibal and wraith is generally who I run the most when against swfs. Trapper is also much less stressful. Will unlock hag soon. Spirit and blight I have, but their playstyle is a little bit sweaty and uses a lot of mental focus. The killer has to loop, run, out think, and do action reflexes for the entire game almost. While survivors have rest periods and there are 4 of them. What a lot of new killers get is frustration and stress, not so much that it is how they lose. Making every loop a learning experience, helps create a positive experience and feedback. Or using insidious on cannibal and instant downing 1 or 2 or 3 going for rescues, can offset the frustration.
Artist is pretty strong too and her power is not that difficult to use.
DBD causes more stress than fun, especially when playing killer imo. I would prefer a ranked & casual mode implemented in the game since q times with this mmr system are already longer than they used to be.
I built low stress builds as killer.
I don't see how the system is too "complex" to translate performance to MMR, they already award blood points by performance -- that's literally a performance measure
so farming people off hook is a good thing? because that still gives points, and that also means you can just do 1 gen with proof thyself, only sabo/do totems and still max boldness, not at all performance, otz literally made a video about maxing survival without escaping......
@@moingame6188 You lose more points than you gain for unsafe hooks. So, invalid point. But ironically, yeah, the bloodpoint system was a better measurement of individual performance than this; you couldn’t just sit on gens or hide all game. You needed to balance altruism, interaction with the killer, repairs, and your own survival if you wanted to get anywhere near 32k.
At best, if you did jack shit, you’d maybe safety pip for escaping. Now? Guaranteed boost.
The rank system used to be based on that! I'm not sure how I would feel about it though. Many perks and pointless actions dramatically increase your BP gains. And what about the Killer side? Some Killers get mad BP over others. It's not simple.
@@whothehellarewe you don't lose bloodpoints for an unsafe unhook, you just don't get the extra 500 bloodboints for the safe unhook, only thing you lose is points in the altruism category for the pips, nothing else
btw we are talking only about bloodpoints for MMR, not the emblem system and how an unsafe unhook effects that, for clarity
The MMR is absolutely scuffed lmao
My gripe with it is that they call it “Skill” Based Matchmaking. But all it is, is Escape/Kill Matchmaking. All this does is encourage hiding and tunneling for the first kill.
Everyone knows, even the developers pointed it out, that once the killer gets the first kill all survivor’s chances of escaping plummet. I stopped playing 2 days into the new SBMM because it was the same thing over and over. Nurse/Spirit/Blight enhance patrol for first kill, obliterate the rest.
As a killer I mained Legion and it’s abysmal. It was literally the worst experiences I’ve ever had with the game. It felt like I could never get a down and before I knew it the game was over.
This used to be my go-to chill game and now I just watch other people complain about it.
The game just feels tenfold harder for everyone now. It's rare to see meme builds and killer interactions anymore because everyone assumes that their opponent will play to their best ability.
Recently I hadn't received a single boop as Pig, and I main her religiously. I played at least 50 games since MMR dropped and in every single one, I couldn't even get one kill...
Perhaps this system will allow the developers to balance killers a little bit better, or improve some core mechanics?
I am still hopeful. I cannot give up on this game, not that I've spent so many hours and money on it...
Yeah. this shit has been making me more and more sad lately...dbd has had some big problems for ages of course but shit has been changing for the worse. I've played this game for four solid years, and it's pretty much been my main one the whole time, or at least the one I come back to, to chill; after I been playing some other game for a while. I'm tired of the drama and the negative effects in gameplay...
@@peliam6382 every time i try to boop the snoot i get ambushed :(
even if im the last survivor or the killer currently not in a rush they just wont let me do it anymore - especially with the pig changes they tryhard alot now.
Veterans: Analyzing complex game systems and discussing the impacts brought on by their changes.
Me: "Haha bing bong man is fun. I think I will try this burrowing meat dog monster next."
I love that description of Demogorgon
BING BONG MAN HAHAHAHAHA we call him bell boy😭😂 (gunslinger is harpoon man or pew pew man)
@@4everGirlStar who tf calls him bell boy? its bing-bong-boi.
we have Myers aka Succ-daddy / Plague as VommyMommy / Demogorgon as Gordon or alt. demo-dog / spirit aka spi-spi / Oni aka Onii-chan / Trickster aka Shit'ster / Trapper as Trap-daddy / ghostface aka Ghostie / Pig aka Piggy / Leatherface aka Boobs or Booba / Freddy aka Fredster / Legion aka Leg / Pyramid Head aka PPhead .. and i think the rest stays the same, i hear people call him Shit-slinger as well, maybe i missed one? pls comment below but these are the overall "officially" accepted nichnames
my biggest problem it being hidden, along with calling it "skill based" I dont think simply killing or escaping has anything to do with skill, what you did to get to that point is skillful but not judging that is just weird.
The problem with this game IMO is that it’s just a game you’re suppose to play lol. People care too much about a win or lose. I wasn’t around when it first arrived but i think it was more of simple hide and seek.
I’ve seen this happen to games though, when the player base evolves the gameplay. There will be no happy ending with this game. I’d say play while it lasts.
@@gamerldDBD i bought this game recently under the impression that this is pretty much clownfest/child game of tag in dark setting, where anything goes. Random perks, random lucky escapes, constantly trying to do something unconventional. But people tend to optimize the fun out of games.
@@Tikvinka That’s basically what this game has become lol. Also with the no fun part. This is the game though. I play my games n keep it moving.
@@gamerldDBD the problem is this isn’t a game “that you just play” according to the devs. If it was that, then matchmaking would only be connection based (you know, like the old cods before AW). That’s the best matchmaking were the better player wins and the noobs lose till they learn. However gaming is more mainstream and everyone wants to feel like they are good, so devs retain newcomers with SBMM, and the talented player is rewarded with worse queues and/or having to carry a noob team 24/7 depending on the matchmaking system.
Luckily DBD is Skilless based match making, and now that devs spoke just die as survivor or AFK as killer, if you’re a filthy reverse booster with too much spare time
I feel that this game has a problem with identifying what exactly is considered a win or not. Not just from the developer's viewpoints, but also us as players - and I think that if time was taken to clarify these points, it would then allow for a much better MMR system to take hold and not feel as jumbled. Let me explain:
The teammate who did nothing but crouch around all game, never was in a chase, never unhooks their teammates, and hardly does any gens finds the hatch and escapes. Did they win? Is escaping the point of the game, or is working together to finish objectives (even if you don't make it out the exit gate) a win? Conversely, if I do all the gens and lose due to NOED from an obviously unskilled killer, does that count as a win?
The killer who downs someone and facecamps, maybe getting an additional kill out of this tactic, ends the game with two kills and two escapes. Did they win, or is the point of the game to engage in chases, play objectives, and strive to get as many hooks as possible?
I'm not trying to make any judgements on survivor or killer playstyles, but simply showing that there is no clear definition of winning here, and because of that, how can you have a MMR system that measures a win or a loss if everyone has different definitions of them? I would love to hear your thoughts on this Otz.
Exactly this. Since the new MMR was implemented the number of killers running noed or straight up camping/tunneling on the first down (even at the start of the game on 4 or 5 gens) and the number of survivors on solo q that don't really do anything has increased so much in my experience. Of course there are games that feel more fun or balanced, a killer on your level or a solid team, and the queue times are so much better as survivor; but it doesn't feel worth it of an exchange, yknow
At the very least, with the Emblems system, you were encouraged to add some variety in your play style. Survivors were encouraged to interact with the Killer, repair gens, protect team mates, and themselves. Likewise, Killers were encouraged to protect gens, do damage, chase effectively, and so on.
Now? Doesn’t matter. It only nets you bloodpoints. If you want to “win” you only need to camp, or sandbag your team mates. Don’t go back to unhook at EGC, and likewise, just face camp as Killer. It’s literally the most rewarding strategy now - and that’s just sad.
Right. A win is so subjective in this game. This game is a team game. If I get 3 of my teammates out and I die for it? I find that a win on my part, but it doesn't work that way. If I can loop the killer for 2 or 3 gens and at least one or two people get out, i wouldn't consider that a loss either. I feel like a solo escape is encouraged in this system moreso than a team escape. Like if I have to die trying to save my teammates, I will more often than not.. why would that mean I have less skill than a claudette hiding in the corner?
See, this, this is what it all comes down to. With the old system, overall performance was used to establish how far you'd go with your Rank and your Rank aka OVERALL performance was what led to matchmaking. Now, now all that matters is the Survive or Die part.
Killer got one Kill or maybe 2 running NOED while camping and tunneling? CONGRATULATIONS!!!
Survivor was a non-contributor running Wake Up, Spine Chill, and Premonition to avoid Killer and open the Exit Gates faster? CONGRATULATIONS!!!
Any other combination of Perks, Add-Ons, or Strategies are completely useless and Overall Performance matters not compared to the simple binary of: Did the Survivor Die? Y/N?
According to the devs hatch is a null effect. It doesn’t count as a win in MMR.
It's somewhat strange how MMR sort of follows the rules of the 50 win streaks, it's almost uncanny
Why? It's always been pretty clear what a "win" is in this game. I'll never understand why people try to dance around it so much.
"yeah we all died but we did so great!"
"yeah they all 4 got away but I defended gens so well!"
Clearly, you didn't.
@@smockytubers1188 Only a Sith deals in absolutes
@@tacoface5000 and jedi's are "good guys"...
@@Ranzoe813 The Jedi are a bunch of self-righteous psychophants, that doesn't make the Sith not dicks by their very nature
@@smockytubers1188
Say that again once you're tunneled for five gens, get hooked once at the end, and then your teammates leave you to die.
If you significantly contribute to your teammates escape, then your death should not count as a loss. In that respect, the old system was better.
So as a survivor in this new system, would it be best to just escape rather than going for heroic plays n helping your team as much as possible?
To me, if this is the case, it kind of sounds like I should be using my team instead of working with them, therefore defeating the purpose of a team based role
Exactly, yeah. It's encouraged a really selfish playstyle; and a playstyle of just using crutch shit rather than trying different things, and doing things like going for difficult plays where you could hone your skill.
@@RavensWings11 it really seems like it
A lot less team play in my games now bcuz of this system
They need to change it so it rewards team play
If I get someone else to safety at the cost of my own life, the game shouldn't tell me I suck at the game bcuz I died
It really just defeats the point of working together as a team
@@NightSkyKing yeah, it does. And team plays are probably the most fun thing in the game for me
@@RavensWings11 soooo satisfying knowing that your play helped get your whole team out alive
Think it's what truly makes the role a very fun one
Just wish I wouldn't get punished for making such plays n I get rewarded instead
Even if it's slightly less then what I would get if I survived
the most efficient way to play survivor is blending in the environment and stealth perks, wait for ur team to die and keep hiding until the killer closes the hatch.
then with wake up and spine chill u 15% the gate and open it fully once he checked on it - congratz u are the best player in dbd according to the devs.
if this isnt enough in case u vs some1 with good gate defense u can always bring a Key into the match as well + left behind - u wont get any mmr points by escaping through the hatch but atleast u dont lose any either.
So after over a year of development from the team responsible for MMR system they've settled on:
Escape = win
Die = Lose
Amazing. I don't think i'd have been able to figure that out after a year myself, these guys deserve raises...
Sarcasm aside, their extreme desire to keep the details of the system hidden and therefor deleting any discussion that reveals any of the "hidden" mechanics drives the discussion off their forums and onto the comment sections of streamers. Its like they try as hard as they can to make bad choices.
I can understand why they wouldn't want to get into the details as to how it works, because people would exploit whatever they can to stroke their own epeens. Yes, even if they don't get rewards and the ranking system is just a measurement of time.
@@leadpaintchips9461 The new system isn't so much a measure of time, it's just a way to match you against people of like skill. If someone tries to game the system to get a higher ranking they're only cheating themselves. The old system was a measure of time. They've got it right that the rating can go up and down over time, they just need to take a few more things into consideration than just escape or not.
@@dueldu70 Im not claiming to know how to fix it. Im also not on the team of people paid to do it. I can say however that there's more to it than escape = win, die = lose.
@@leadpaintchips9461 The only point of a ladder system is for people who want to play the game seriously to climb it. I've never seen any other game where trying your best to climb was considered bad and "stroking their own peens". And if they do that and get a stupidly high MMR, why do you even care? If anything it's all the better since we won't get matched against them.
@@kiwa8830 No, the point of MMR in video games is to match those of similar skill against each other. Having ranks is the reason why you have those insults like "Gold scrub", which is just someone stroking their own epeen. The point of hiding the nitty gritty is to try to keep everyone where they're supposed to be, instead of having mismatched games because someone is playing the matchmaker instead of the game.
They literally said that they do not care about MMR system, apparently it seems to be the same with Pinhead voicelines, it just hurts my soul
I think what was fun for me was the "randomness" in DBD. The variety of characters, killers, addons, items, offerings, maps etc etc that could happen; random shack window side, random pallet gen spawns, random hatch etc. They all made me play this game more than other games. Now with MMR games felt much more predictable, and you get bored of them very quickly. I played roughly 10 games ytd night and all I could recall was alchemist ring blights and range cd nurse and meta perk spirits, with one game of bamboozle bubba face camping first hook. Nothing else.
The worst part about the MMR is getting caught in the endless cycle of having new or just bad players as team mates who keep leaving you for dead on hook. Regardless of you're actual in-game performance, the game just lowers your MMR regardless of how you died, so get matched with worse and worse team mates who again, just leave you to die on hook and on it goes.
H0nestly, though the old ranking system was wonky and flawed, I felt like at least half my games were fun. Now it's nothing but sweatfests and, as mentioned, the same 3-4 perks on every survivor and just generally miserable
Ive noticed most of the survivors I play against run Dead Hard. Its kinda funny.
Good! The new players should be getting the other new players, not being fed to you who's very experienced. That's the point!
@@ForzaTerra89 so I just get fed to the players with 3000 thousand hours? Fuck me I guess then
@@BassBaseAce If that's your skill level and it's between you and a brand new player than absolutely fucking YES. lol
@@ForzaTerra89 what? So it's fair that we get put against people we barely have a chance against, but God forbid we ever get someone lower then our skill level? What are you talking about? Lmao just fix the system, don't settle for "well yeah between the two bad options this one is the best bad option"
Dowsey and otz watching this “masterpiece” of dev
dont forget Scot
@@the_seeker.entity9206
Who’s Scot? I watch a few dbd youtubers
@@guipinus Scott Jund, I'd never heard of him before the stuff happened with Tru3
@@ryanwoodley3850 what happened between him and tru3
@@bruh9595 spirit counterplay
Honestly I'd would personally love to see a leaderboard for killers and survivors so you can see where you are at in the mmr
What sets you apart from other DBD streamers is how professional and composed you are especially through the controversial times. Thank you Otz!
I tried to play killer after new MMR was added. 10 games: 8 loses(1k hours survs when I have like 5 hour killer experience) and 2 wins(completely new players who doesn't know how to loop).
Yep, I always try to cheer up new killers whenever I face them, which has been too often. Prior to MMR, the lowest killers I faced had 50 hours. My survivor MMR has tanked a lot since I try to rescue as many survivors as possible. It's a really stupid idea to have survivors who can turn a 3k/4k into a 1k by sacrificing themselves drop MMR.
Matchlength stops mattering, sure, I can agree with that. But pallets being used by a survivor, average chase time, gens being done(for survivors)/gens remaining(killer) and hits taken/given can matter a lot more. You can add in kills and escape into the mix, sure, but use those 4 metrics to gather data, then use that data to create an average number(also depending on maps ofcourse), if you perform better than the average number, you increase MMR, if you perform worse, you decrease in MMR.
Even Wraith's 2-3 second chase would be fixed, since it's based on an average number. Lets say Nurse has an average number of 25 on The Game and an average number of 30 on Dead Dawg Saloon(higher average being better performance), then a player who plays Nurse gain 20 points(aka, worse) on The Game and 31(aka better) on Saloon. Their average MMR would change regardless of how many kills gained or lost.
I think the fact that maps arent included, even though Doc is godlike on Dead Dawg Saloon and quite meh on Gas Heaven(the carwalls alone cost him 1 and a half minutes before he downs a survivor), where Nurse doesnt really care which map is being used. Is one of the bigger reasons that MMR is being rightfully hated on. I've played less and less DBD purely because of SBMM making matches less fun to play. An average of 50% escape rate is not fun, because it doesnt include whether or not my teammates escaped.
Same here, 1st round: 2.5k hour SWF; 2nd round: players that just bought the game; like come on.
Whether or not people think that the MMR system is working, the results of the MMR systems can be really questionable.
Same here. As killer I usually go up against sweaty pc swf with troll builds so I just joke around with them.
What we really need to talk about, is how incredibly deceptive the Devs were about the true nature of the system and how incredibly derisive was the delivery of Patrick when actually speaking of the issue.
We were promised a true skill-based mmr system, and all the devs did is once again show that they don't play their own game. And that dude came across as obnoxious when he was trying to explain it, as if that would help anything
@@rosaw2012 Oh they play the game, they just completely suck at it. I wouldn't be surprised if they implemented this system so that they can feel better about themselves playing like shit. No wonder McLean left, he was one of the only competent devs and got sick of their bullshit.
If the devs keep doing this then am just going to play vhs. Otz I think you should start switching games soon because of the lack of criticism or how much the devs don't care. DbD is practically an abusive relationship now Wich was a shame because I truly did love this game.
I really dont know how we went from a fairly complex system that took into consideration many variables present in the game to kill/escape:good ; Missed kills/getting killed: bad. I really hope the devs notice this to make fixes to this new system or make a complete rollback while thinking of ways to improve it. Thats all my rant and i rarely play the game hahaha
Why does the system have to be complex though?
@@Difcar i think the complexity that was installed before this sbmm encouraged more various ways of playing the game in comparison to this more simple system that only rewards you for escaping through an exit gate/getting kills. I think that fixing the flaws it had was easier than releasing a new one imo.
PD: I mainly play surv and would love to hear the opinión of a killer main.
This system completely fucks over mediocre players. Me and my friend are relatively new to the game, but not brand new (~300 hours). Unless we play with our third friend (that got us into the game and has 1,2k hours), we are constantly getting matched with people who have less than 20 in-game hours (!) and obviously as a team get stomped by the killer, resulting in us getting even worse teammates. I literally had a teammate who had 4 (!) hours playtime. I know playtime isn't everything but surely matching a person that just bought a game with someone who has been playing for at least a few months isn't a solution?
Even with the old system you'd get paired with vegetables when first starting/rank reset. That's literally nothing new. Climb and stfu
@@stevenhetzel6483 There are no prizes for being a rude pos, yet here you are
My biggest issue with this mmr system
is that i always sacrifice myself for my teammates (in solo queues) so therefore i keep getting paired with very new teammates that dont even know how to mend themselves or heal other survivors.
as someone pointed out on scott’s video: they literally already HAD a system in which to measure overall skill built into the game, which is the bloodpoint/pipping system that the game was using to matchmake BEFORE. measuring how much BP you receive in each category (minus any BP offerings & such) and then basing your MMR on that would be a MUCH better way to measure skill, as it doesn’t just take survival/kills into account, but your overall performance. for example: on the survivor side, the current system literally discourages altruism, which is kind of an important aspect of survivor gameplay, while a BP-based system would actively encourage it, and also better teamwork in general.
It's almost like they want to bring this game downhill. Why even move away from a BP-based system?!
There probably is a big flaw with and that is that people can farm BP end game especially with Altruism category
@@theedaviles1490 that’s true, but farming matches are less common than regular matches, and would still be better to gauge overall skill than escapes/kills (they could also program it to register endgame farming vs pre-endgame performance, but this is BHVR we’re talking about, nobody knows how to code lmao.)
The BP method sucked. The amount of BP you get is almost entirely up to what the killer does. You can literally just equip insidious and AFK in front of a totem and the survivors will be able to max objective, cleanse 4 totems for boldness and get escape survival points at most. If the killer doesnt interact with you, there is no potential for boldness, altruism or additional survival points.
Not to mention imbalance in BP gain itself. Boldness is incredibly easy to max as long as the killer chases you. Against most killers survival is almost impossible to max. Altruism points is entirely incumbent upon the killer to perform well and even then you have to compete with your own team over them. Objective isn't hard but you often wont be able to get altruism, boldness, AND objective.
This is why survivor earns less bp/hour than killer. Killers can just play and they'll get a mostly even spread of BP across categories. Survivors tend to max out 1 or 2, have a decent but of progress in a 3rd and very little or nothing in a 4th
Spot on. BHVR literally took a year of development to create a system that's worse than what they already had. I simply cannot comprehend this.
Ever since the mmr thingy, playing killer, especially at such a low rank like mine is terrible, i feel i never stand a chance, and never have a chance to get better. Especially with a killer like ghostface, who's like the only killer i play. I thought it would fix matchmaking, but i do good once against people who practically have no perks, then the next 10 matches i get people who are clearly leagues ahead of me, all running your normal dstrikes, dhards, and lampkin lane offering. It might just be the console experience, but i feel it is much worse to play killer now than before the update.
I have the same problem and I just started playing and I don’t think it’s a very fun experience
Same. I'm literally a new p.ayer and go up against red rank players with purple ds, do, etc. I literally have no purple perks
Tbh I suggest you play a different killer. Ghostface isn't exactly easy to play. He also requires a lot of upkeep since he depends on his add ons. Play someone like doctor or hag. Pretty sure both are free.
@@King-zx4qr they are but hag just encourages camping and doctor seems pretty hard to learn ngl
@@jennawinter4873 Doctor isn't as hard as he seems and hag doesn't really encourage camping because she can just place her traps instead. But I think wraith is free too so you could just play him lol though he is supposedly getting nerfed soon
For me the problems are two main things:
1. My matches even a month on still feel very random. With killer I've gone from a 4 hook, 0 kill game to the next being a 4k with 5 gens remaining. But I've also had entire sessions that are just streaks of 3-4 hook games. On survivor I've found the same - either the killer gets no kills or everyone, with few games in that goal spot of 2k/2 escape the devs seem to be aiming for.
2. I've got no sense of progression anymore. Pre-MMR/SBMM I was generally sitting around rank 10 depending on how much I could play, but I could try and get a little better each month. Now I don't have that benchmark. I often see Red Grades in my lobbies, but does that mean I'm good and just didn't have time to rank up before? Or does it mean I'm playing with people that playing a lot but might not have much skill? I can look at how well loops get ran, the mind games used, how quickly gens pop or how often a 3-gen situation happens but it's all really abstract and get to have a connection to.
Sounds like screwing over other survivors so you have a 'safety net' for dying last will be the new meta. Also a just hide in a corner meta if you think you have bad teammates too.
sandbag with friends was just preparing for MMR the entire time
I hate it especially because when I play survivor (even solo) I like the “risk it all for your teammates” mindset, but why bother 99ing an exit gate to go back and help when I can just leave and guarantee I climb? The risky altruistic plays that used to make the game fun are just punishing now
Every match is the same for me, key users and survivors that like to play hide n seek, games last way too long or way too short nothing in between, honestly it's really boring lol
@@jaydani116 Why do you want to climb?
@@jaydani116 Wow. I just realized how many people think like that now during my games. At end game I notice people give 0 fucks and just leave the moment gens are done even when somebody is hooked. It’s soo often I’m starting to lose hope in solo queue.
The funniest thing is it took them 2 years, according to them, to make a system that just takes into account escapes and kills. THE SAME SYSTEM THEY SAID THEY WOULDN'T IMPLEMENT IN THE FIRST PLACE. I completely understand why people are overreacting
Not to mention it's just objectively worse than the old BP system. It took them years to make a worse system. Let that sink in.
As a veteran that has been playing on and off since legion released, I can confidently say that the MMR system is completely broken and does not work properly or, it does not cater to the casual player anymore. I played 4 matches with the new system on release.
1ST GAME- I played ghost face because I needed to interrupt and grab people and I thought he would be the perfect killer for this. I have only play ghost face a collective 3 or 4 times in my entire dbd career. I got absolutely obliterated, only got 3 hooks.
2ND GAME- I went bubba, one of my better killers, 1 hook the entire match. Survivors played absolutely perfectly around loops and managing their time.
3RD GAME- Bubba again, same result.
4TH GAME- Went legion this time, got 3 hooks.
Keep in mind, before this MMR system I was by no means an amazing killer. Probably around rank 8 or 7. I could never get close to red ranks. And here I am coming back to the game getting my shit kicked in after waiting in a 10-15 min que. Completely ruined killer for me, it's not fun anymore.
Well, keep playing and you'll end up with the right survivors. I got the game 2 weeks ago and only play killer. I enjoy the game a lot.
Umm... Does playing since the release of Legion really qualify you as a Veteran..?
I'm not denying that you have been here since their release, nor am I denying that you do have experience.. But was it really that long enough ago to qualify you as a veteran?
I would aasume that the real veterans are those who have been playing since the game only had 3 killers and 4 survivors, qnd those who still have their original legacy outfit :x.....
that sounds like no players were online during your search, which ended up with you being matched up against god tier. Or someone who played way outside your normal bracket of tactics.
So I am just some killer main player who used to have an easy time hitting red ranks. I took a break from the game for a few months and started playing a while ago again.
I've got 800 hrs played and whenever I queue up against other PC players (I have crossplay enabled) I check their stream profiles. Whenever I am able to check them (lots of the time they are private) it shows that my opponents have between 1,500 and 3,500 hrs played. And I can feel the difference.
Because I've been taking a break I deranked to a really low spot. Iron, bronze or whatever. And from my first game on all of my opponents were iridescent/red ranked/graded or whatever you call it.
I've started to lose lots of games now, since I usually can't dominate a game with a mid tier killer like Nemesis against 4 survivors where I can see that 3 of them have 2,500'ish hours played, all running 4 meta perks and looping how you are supposed to loop, aswell as bringing stupid map offerings like the resident evil one.
I stopped expecting to win. Even when I tunnel gens just fly past so quick that most of the time games are over within 4-5 minutes.
I don't know what changed, but I did enjoy the game way more before they changed all that.
I started maining Pyramid Head since then and I am getting way better results now, but even though I lost lots of games in the past few weeks, the game still only matches me up against iridescent veteran players with atleast double my playtime.
I’ve done a lot of solo queue and 2 man swf in the new mmr, every single one of my games is killers that are very competent and teammates that urban evade around the entire map and let me die
Same
Same
Solo queue is a horrible experience probably the worst it has ever been out of my experience with the game for 4 years.
why dont u evade killer? seems like they are better players:))) they survived in the end right?
So much this.
my biggest issiue is the following: I came Back to DBD about 2 Month ago. I was obviously much better than the average Rank 20 Survivor and rose through the Ranks quickly one 4 at a time. I made it till rank 4 and the new MMR came live. Since then im regularly checking the hourcont on the Survivors im Playing against and they most of the time hve 5-20 times my playtime sometimes even more. As a consequence i lose... often ... badly... and now i kind of know why. I performed overwelmingly before and now the System sees me as a top 1% Killer whilst im not even close. And sice the MMR is set for every Killer individually on this high level and only changes slowly... im not realy having fun annymore. The Eppidemic of Keys in Lobbys does not make it better as well.
You explained exactly why this sort of system fucks over killers enjoyment of the game the most. Nearly every match now for a high MMR killer is sweaty, and if you happen to win any of your matches, you only increase your MMR so it's a lose/lose situation.
hey same here, now its 6losses with 2-6 hooks and after 2 finger sucking survivors games and then back to mlg survivors. Its bad, playing with killers you never played with is even worse. and playing without gen regressing perks seems absolutely impossible.
same here, just bought the game for 3 weeks, now i am rank three and i got pair with many sweaty survivors that are above my league, sometimes i manage to get a sacrifice just because they are greedy but if they play safe, it may be damn hard to gain a sacrifice. but at the sametime, after losing these matches, i sometimes get quad on the next match, you could go from 1 hook in a game to 12 hooks on the next. For a killer, it fluctuates a lot, but most of the time, survivors are sweaty. I am not necessarily a great killer, but I know the basic and often watch multiple DBD youtubers content, I also play everyday for >1 hours
Proposal of a solution to skill based matchmaking (of sorts)
Offer a "purist" or "proving grounds" mode that either allows no items and/or add-ons and just perks, specific perks and add-ons, or you just go in absolutely naked. This would have a separate MMR system that only SLIGHTLY influences regular game matchmaking. That could be sort of the sacred ground that the most skilled killers and survivors and swfs would use. Maybe balance it by setting the swf queue limit to duos. I don't play this game much but i do see that the balancing issues come primarily from items and add-ons. The perks seem relatively okay, even though survivors hate noed, ruin, Corrupt, etc. And killers hate DS, BT, Dead hard, etc. They all kinda do the same things for both sides. Idk just my thoughts.
What I liked about old system is that it was in very dbd lore spirit. It encouraged you not to just kill everyone, but prolong the pleasure, to toy with your prey, to make survs "suffer" before you kill them. That had kinda atmosphere, and "win" was basically giving survs an exhausting long game.
The old emblem system was utter garbage though (and still is but it doesn't really matter now as "grades" are whatever, at least to me), at least for killers. For survivors getting pips was super easy up until red ranks (as a solo player, in a semi-decent SWF pips and ranks pretty much flew by and you were at rank 1 before you knew it, hence the amount of boosted survivors in red ranks), killers on the other hand needed to "babysit" survivors to an extent if they wanted to get the maximum out of any match they played, it wasn't really in their hands what emblems they're gonna get, leaving a lot to the survivors' behaviour: you can't kill them too fast because you need at least 9 hooks (and if they DC or kill themselves because you're a killer they don't like with a build they don't like on a map they don't like or if their teammates don't rescue in time and thus your victims skip hook stages - well, sucks for your emblems I guess) but still gotta keep those chases short, you need to hit them a certain number of times (which screws over one-shot killers who are pretty much forced to play inefficient by not using their power all the time) but you also can't let them heal up too often (someone explain this contradiction please: you need to hit them for one emblem but if you let them heal up so you get enough hits you get penalized as well... has anyone actually thought this through?), you need to spam your power to gain Deviousness but sometimes can't use it against survivors at the same time (again, insta-down killers), you pretty much need to run slowdown perks because not losing gens quickly in the first few minutes is critical for your Gatekeeper emblem, ... - long story short, it's bullshit and says little to nothing about your skill as a player.
@@xxLiquidxxSnakExx I feel like there needs to be a balance of the two, as getting hooks off before but not getting kills still rewarded you, whereas now it's a detriment to go for hooks over kills. Like you said, old system kinda hurt one shot killers, but now one shot killers are doing really well. I mostly just don't like how drastic the games can be now, as you can be relatively new to the game, do well for a few games, and then get matched up against people way higher ranked. Either do away with the ranking system, or reward someone that's lower ranked for playing against people higher ranked in some way.
See, THIS is how you give feedback!
The community and some dbd content creators should really take a page out of your book ^^
_Honestly_ as someone contemplating getting into the DBD (and beyond) content-creation scene some (and already have with art), Otz is a major inspiration to me.
Part of the reason I never went full-send into RUclips, Streaming, etc. is I was worried I wasn't "energetic" enough, but Otz showed me you don't necessarily need to be the hyperactive memelord to make it, you just need to have a good personality, know your stuff, and make something that's enjoyable to watch.
@@DuskEalain Well said! :)
@@DuskEalain Yes and honestly, many people (including me) prefer the less over the top hype people. I just stresses me out watching someone who keeps screaming and memeing and overreacting, no matter how good they are at what they do. It's much more fun and relaxing to watch someone who regularly forms complete sentences and talks at a normal volume to their viewers. I would probably even watch someone who's really bad at the game, as long as they are nice to others and have a good personality.
But they don't
I don't have all the answers but thank you.
After the new mmr was implemented I literally had a whole day where there was not one match without a map offering or/and some really powerful items
Yeah same always farm or haddonfield offerings
@@de9591 azarov and jigsaw pieces for me. The game is about to top Hawkins as my most hated map if another key SWF brings it and hides out my corrupt.
Yeah, I am also the best killer player in the world and I am also only been matched against tournament teams
@@47slogra you are pathetic
@@ericzettl1563 r/wooosh
I just realised that this video is basically Otz doing a QA presentation for the developers while not being employed by them in any way shape or form
heres my thing with this mmr system, I'm a player who enjoys playing the game a lot and even trying new builds here and there, I'd like to think that my mmr as a survivor and killer are high, but when I want to play with my buddies who enjoy the game as well, they dont play that often and are pretty bad when they play but every time we queue we get slaughtered. My suggestion to this would just be to introduce a quickplay gamemode where there is no mmr and everything is just random like it was before thats what made this game unique and fun in my opinion.
I'm a bronze killer getting full iridescent swfs each game. It's making me not want to play the game.
same. i picked up the game again after some time, so ash4. got iri survivors in 2 out of the 4 games i played
same here, alot of the matches i have are mostly meta perks, same things and same playstyle every time. theres no diversity and no fun.
Well the devs will just tell us to "Go play a different game"
I just bought the game and first match had 2 red ranks while I literally just started with no perks
Why do people keep saying this? You're bronze killer because you've barely played killer for the past month. The survivors you're playing against have actually been playing the game. We're one week away from rank reset so of course a lot of people have reached red naturally from playing the game.
None of that has anything to do with matchmaking.
I used to run a bunch of off-meta builds with spfury/enduring, CrowdControl, make your choice, etc. But now at high MMR the games go by in 5 minutes without gen slowdown on the b-tier killers - and my matchmaking times were 7-10 minutes. I was still getting 2k every match - so I never decreased in rank but the games were soulcrushing. So now I'm running tinkerer/ruin/pop on basically every killer - and while I'm now doing better with much more 4ks and the games last longer with gen slowdown I'm sad to feel like 100+ perks are just locked for me.
If they ever planned on doing something to fix how fast the games go without slowdown I would be interested - but they seem like they're 'content' with having 2k for every killer be the baseline - and I don't see them making any changes.
That's the fuckin problem with this sort of system. It just makes the game sweaty and punishes people for playing with meme builds and just overall trying to have fun. These devs fucked up massively.
People don't understand MMR. The point of it isn't to "climb" it, but to have fun - to be paired against equals depending on your play style. That's why you don't see your MMR. I like to go for 12 hooks whenever possible. If i get 8 hooks and 0 kills, it doesn't matter. I'll "lose" some MMR and next game i'll get paired against weaker survivors so that now i can go for 8 hooks and still get kills. It's a way for balancing. If you camp and tunnel, MMR will see it and give you harder opponents so your cheese strategy isn't as easy. The key for MMR is - don't think about it.
First thing I wanna say is I really appreciate the graphic you showed for the mmr and how the system works. It was very informative and helped me understand it better since I did have some misconceptions on it. As for my biggest gripe with the current system I'd have to say it's still the lack of transparency and rewards for your rank. I would like to at least have a rough idea where I am at to know whether I am improving at the game or not. Or knowing whether the system is accurately matching my teammates or opponents to my skill since I've had matches recently where I could play against survivors or killers who play really well then the next match have a nurse player who doesn't know how to blink. Without an idea of what my mmr is I don't know if this is because I'm at a lower mmr or if the killer was a high mmr on a different killer then decided to try nurse. I just really don't like the lack of understanding of what's going on, especially now that they have revealed what a win or loss is. Moving on to the subject of rewards, I think it's okay to have the grades be a separate thing that is only based on how much you play but, I think you should still be rewarded in some degree for playing well and climbing the invisible mmr ladder. The rewards could be anything, I would just like to get something for having to sweat while bringing more memey builds
There needs to be one of two things: no mmr and we get old dbd again, or there is casual and ranked modes. The latter seems more fun, though queue times may worsen for ranked.
Joke’s on you bud- the sweat squads and turbo try hard killers will just switch to casual because they think it’d be easier to abuse. Mark my words it would solve nothing. Now a mode where the killer and each survivor has to run no perks or addons except for their own teachables, and no duplicate survivors…. That, I think, would be interesting and the closest thing to fair this game has ever seen
@@richt7525 If you could only use a particular survivor's teachables, woudn't you only ever see Meg, Bill, David, and either Laurie/Dwight/Jake? Plus killers would know that anyone who isn't Laurie would not have DS, and anyone who isn't Bill wouldn't have BT, so games would likely become a tunnel fest. It would also be quite boring to instantly know what every killer and survivor is running just based on their character
@@louis595 Yeah, especially since most killers have absolutely dogshit base perks that would make them less fun to play. (*ahem* Pyramid Head *ahem*)
@@louis595 that’s the point
@@louis595 You say it would be boring, i disagree. Killers and survivors are carried by their perks, the same damn perks, for every. single. game. It sucks and being able to force individuality to each survivor, and having to actually strategize based upon which killer you face is more compelling to me. What we have right now is boring, would be my argument. I should not be able to accurately guess that all 4 friggin survivors in every game are most likely going to have BT, DS, Unbreakable, and dead hard. It's mind numbingly, depressingly boring. We need a shake up
Surviving and Killing doesn't determine skill, look at Clauds and Dwights can hide and do gens at a inefficient rates and I'll die after an 8 minute chase and dies without being unhooked.
The game promotes SWF play not solo play. SURVIVING AND KILLING should not play effect. The problem was Max points in categories. The change was the wrong change.
Killer system punishes YOU FOR PLAYING DIFFERENT KILLERS...why learn Pinhead or Piggy, when Blight and Clown are maxed and have add ons and perks. Game punishes me for having DLC....wtf.
MMR isn't BAD, it's just how they went about it. Now what if we categorize perks and get rid of dumb Tiers. Limiting perk types into categories. So we can't have ONLY EXHAUSTION PERKS or ONLY GEN REGRESSION BUILDS. Or give a point value like in BLACK OPS 2 with classes that have max slots so you can't grab meta perks all the time. Or just DITCH ADD ONS?
TOO MUCH RNG for skill to be measured. Perks are the only thing that are RNG cuz it's always the same damn 6 Survivor Perks or 8 Killer Perks.
What I want to see is, the survivors in the pre-match lobby show they are in a group, then as killer you decide to take it or leave it ...
@@alexh6767 not a terrible idea, but that will only increase lobby times. SWF isn't a problem if you play to their altruism being higher than solos. The issue is them sharing location of the killer. If they just gave survivors Kindred in base kit, solo survivors will do SO MUCH better. Just elevate solo queue so we can start buffing killers more appropriately. Best way to handle the game is lessen RNG and buff solo queue IF they want this MMR stuff. Addons are too much of a game changer. Grey ones are bad, and Irris can ruin any hope. Purples or Greens are fine, but some can be problematic. JUST TOO MUCH probability
Yeah MMR either needs to be reworked or removed from the game entirely
@@alexh6767
It blows my mind that people have a problem with that idea and will staunchly fight it. It’s like, you get the advantage of playing swf, I should at the very least know if you are. Plus, it would actually take a lot of stress off playing Killer. If I see it’s 4 solos, I’m not going to try as hard, I might even bring in an off-meta build. But as it is right now, I pretty much have to assume I’m playing against at least a 2 man swf.
I play at iridescent 5 and get consistent 4ks while I play nemesis and main him but when I want to play my favourite killer clown I can't because of MMR and so I don't like MMR and its terrible as I have a noob account for learning killers like nurse and so.its at ash 3 and if I 4k like 2 times I play against iridescent swf like yes skill based matches
My biggest pet peeve with the system remains that we cannot see our own MMR.
The thing I loved most about Ranks was having even a vague idea of how good I am at the same. With MMR being even more segmented, I really do want to know how I stack up against the best players, but now we don't have any idea how we rank at all!
It's a team vs solo game, so surely it should have been an ELO system based on that: everyone starts off with X (survivors, per-killer, whatever). Define what constitutes a "win" for the survivor side, what constitutes a "win" for the killer, and any draw conditions. Then the points the killer gains must be equal to the sum of the points lost by the survivors and vice-versa. And the notion is that equal ELO should be a 50/50 chance for each side. 100 points difference: 64/36. Having it as a series of 1v1s seems backwards.
This solves the meta thing--if you keep picking an off-meta killer/build, your ELO will trend downwards. Then the devs can also look at the incidence of killers/perks/add-ons at each ELO to work out what's the most useful loadouts for winning and how to balance it.
Before this update I used to genuinely have fun in DbD which I have been struggling to do so for years and now all the fun is gone, every game feels so stressful and sweaty as a killer, it's constant struggle to enjoy the matches against much better players than you are and swfs.
Same feeling man, it's pretty rough right now.
I used to just play a few games a month, because everytime I got close to red ranks again, it started to just be stressful to play, now it's stressful all the time, so why play it just to get frustrated?
Every match it's borrowed time with ds , unbreakebale and 4 dead hard . Plus gens are so fast .... no fun anymore
That's kind of funny to me, because the survivors have been way to easy and I've climbed to iridescent grade. You really must be a much better killer than me, because it has gotten boring from how easy they were. I also have a hard time killing though since I know it can be frustrating as survivor to die after trying your best
I can play 2-4 killer matches a day before i have to stop from stress. Then i play survivor for a bit to destress a bit
I suspect they have a queue timer limit that throws MMR based out the window after a certain time. Currently MMR based is a joke - I see more unbalanced matches now than before.
Some streamer, I think their name is Dowsey (idk I don't watch them) apparently waited 2 hours in queue for a Twins match cause their MMR was too high
@@davidm2825 that was during one of the first MMR tests months ago
@Krioque Like I said, I don't watch them, I just saw someone mention it on reddit
i noticed the same thing when i get really long ques
A couple days ago I was playing solo queue and this default Meg just spent the game hiding at the edges of the map. When I was on hook, the killer was no where near but she was still hiding behind a tree and crouch walked as I entered the struggle phase. She eventually unhooked me and she went to the edge of the map again, I followed her so she could heal me, but she didn’t want to. She did nothing all game and let us all die on hook, then the killer has the audacity to give HER the hatch.
I’m pretty sure she was a bot because she ran away when the killer let her escape, even though hatch was right there.
When they said it was big data, i was hopeful, but this is a little simple. That being said, otz makes a great point about how this system works out well in the long run given that your death can boost your friends mmr and help you on the whole.
What if it were to have the same win/loss condition as the base, but have it also include weights that affect point payouts (i.e. an insta heal medkit will reduce payout by 25%, or killer payouts are reduced by a certian percentage based on how long the killer is within 18 meters of a survivor)
Devs can adjust the mmr parameters to discourage degenerate tactics (i.e. facecamping) and to encourage skill
I feel like every other DBD creator I watch overreacted about this, the thing I appreciate most about Otz is his optimism/positive attitude he almost always has about things
Dowsey definitely people will try and complain about everything
Pretty sure it’s because the other people aren’t fog whisperers and can say what they want
@@mojolmao1752 really I'm rank 1 in both dude you need to fucking chill also yeah it's not good but you people act like this game has had a good ranking system ever which it hasn't
@@mojolmao1752 being braindead is being mad over a video game, go outside honey
@@Gravelordnito934 rank means cock all
I could care less about MMR, I wanna see an anti-cheat because they're really getting out of hand
I always love otz’s videos on balance. He always makes things clear in a sea of radicals.
I've taken a vow to not use ruin for a long time because I knew that if I take it, It'd be too powerful and I feel like I can't play without it. I also hear from my friends who are survivors that ruin isn't that much fun to go against, which I can kind of see when the killer can easily win by one hooking near a gen at 5 or 4 gens. When you mentioned the part that playing nice gets rewarded with people who sweats harder, that hits too close to home man. I'm glad you were able to put how I feel about the MMR into words Otz...
This system doesn’t allow for “fun.” It promotes the same builds, tunneling, etc. It’s hard to play against killers when they don’t focus on anything but kills. I really like Scott Jund’s Skill Ration system (adding values to powerful perks, add ons, items, and killers). It’s possible the devs just don’t want to put that much time into it
It'd require a whole rework to do that. Imagine you are in a lobby with weak perks on and the killer shows up with similar stats. Then everyone changes their perks and addons to the best before the match. I think the best way to play is to just play the game. If you want to fool around and have fun expect to lose rank until your fooling around is at a balanced spot against the killers. Once you want to play competitively then you'll stop killers until you reach a match that is around the equivalent. Is it a perfect system, nope. Another system that would work is a non rank matchmaking system where you can go to practice (not against friends of course) but that doesn't gain you anything but maybe BPs
This is like playing ranked gameplay when you just want to be casual and chill. Dbd says fuck u to that you need to sweat every match.
@@brianhildebran4351 I agree completely. It sucks when you’re trying to have fun
@@jonathanholz3510 I wish they could figure it out. Anything would help..
This just introduces the same elo hell that any other game has, low level teammates will let you die and if you die you can’t get higher to better teammates so even if you’re better you will be stuck in low mmr especially with no reset or placement matches
That's exactly how I see it, I've got around 600 hours of gameplay but most players I'm matched with don't even reach 100 hours, so while they stay crouched half of the game I always end aggroing the killer and dying first. Tbh it seems I'm playing with more experienced teammates lately, so I'm hopeful.
Elo hell doesn't exist. theres no mmr point where suddenly everyone is good. theres always gonna be garbo players
@@clawer626 Yes there is no 1 point where everyone is just suddenly good, especially because people can have a bad game every now and again, but the higher your "mmr" the more likely you are to be paired with better players. At least that's the goal of MMR systems.
@@clawer626 MMR hell is not a waypoint station or An exact moment. It's a stretch of fairly consistent bad quality.
Thank you Otz! You always have these discussions in a calm and reasonable manner. Something I think more people in the DBD community could do with learning. Much respect ❤️
I love ghostface, and dead by daylight, but the fact that 1 game on 3 I get matched with people with over 500 hours is crazy (I have less than 30)
Every time I find out more about the devs I feels they are trolling us harder.
I call them monkeys for years / for a reason.
They asked a lot of specific questions in the survey; like “If a casual and ranked matchmaking mode were implemented, what percentage of time would you spend in both” and so on. I hope the actual player base is as big as they think for 2 separate matchmaking modes
im pretty sure almost everybodys would choose playing on the ranked system anyway, who wants teammates that wont bother saving you and are useless lmao
@@cyberkkult I think more Killers would play the Casual Gamemode.
I like the idea of the point system. But the things that award points should be more varied. For example:
(All categories cap at +10 or -10)
*SURVIVORS*
Completing a gen/gate = +2
Winning chases = +1
Losing chase = -1
Heals/Safe unhooks/protection hits = +1
Unsafe unhook/idle = -3
Failing a skillcheck = -1
Dying = -5
Surviving! = gives a bonus 50% of total points (so if you died but did everything you still get points, and if you survived but did nothing all game you won't be rewarded much)
*KILLER*
Hooking a survivor = +1
Proximity to survivor = -2
Gens left at end = +2
Losing a chase = -2
Winning chase = +1
Sacrificing! = (Listed below)
0 kills = -15
1 kill = -5
2 kills = 0
3 kills = +5
4 kills = +15
*BOTH SIDES*
Bringing very rare item/add-ons = -1
Bringing ultra rare item/add-ons = -3
*
Bringing ultra rare perk = -2
Bringing very rare perk = 0
Bringing a rare perk (or lower) = +2
(*only If they were to bring back the individual perk rarity, e.g. "OP/meta perks" like Deadhard/Ruin tier 3 = ultra rare... Unused perks like No one left behind/Bloodhound tier 3 = rare)
This way, each side has a hard cap of +53 for a "perfect game", an average game may give a low amount of points or lose a few, and a very bad game will reduce it by a fair bit and put you with players your level
So true bestie love the PSA at the end about being nice to the devs
I love being an ash rank killer and going up against full team of sweaty, object, flashlight iri swfs
Ash isn't a rank, it's a grade, it doesn't mean anything for your mmr. Survivors will naturally be Iri towards the end of the season, as you can't drop in grade, if you play on the 13th it'll be Ash vs Ash. I believe mmr also doesn't reset anymore like how the rank reset used to do, only way to make your games easier is to lose a lot.
Grades are not part of sbmm
Your rank doesn’t mean anything anymore
In the only system as a rank 20-16 killer I was always go against red rank survivors. I don’t know why everyone thinks this system is so much worse than that.
object and flashlights are literally not even great. Old object for sure but now its just meh. Flashlights rarely get use outside of pallets
If this new MMR is supposed to be balanced, then how do I still lose all of my matches anyway?
Checkmate, Behaviour 😎
Because even with balance you are supposed to lose
Yeah i never uncloaked as wraith so i an cobstantly using my power i didnt even get a hit this crap is broken >:(
Because you're not supposed to win 100% of your matches.
@@DV-zv4ox I see I see so I'm supposed to lose 100% of my matchs
@@Toixc-Badboy nope, just 99% 😉
what I've noticed, as a killer main, is that as soon as the mmr went into effect my matches got a lot easier. With the old system i was probably around a 50-60% win rate, and now I'm sitting at a 85-90% average win rate. And I don't know why. I can't tell if I've just improved, which I think I am, but not that dramatically, or if the system is giving me less experienced survs for some reason.
I've been playing DbD since launch and tend to mostly play Killer but still play a decent chunk of Surv (70/30). At this point I believe I am quite decent at the game and I sit on the upper-end of the MMR spectrum. With this said, I have not touched the game in nearly two months. I was extremely excited for pinhead, played him on the PTB and loved his kit (even it being slightly underwhelming). I bought him and the Chatterer skin the second I could and played a bunch of matches. Slowly but surely the matches became more and more of slogs to get through. Groups of SWF's using the same build we've all seen a million times over. Insta-medkits, purple flashlights, Brand-new parts, and keys. I even began to pretty consistently go against hackers who would infinitely stun me and could wiggle so hard I could not hook them. It got the the point that even whenever I won, even whenever I 4k'ed, I did not feel good about it. I was trying so hard and not experimenting because I no longer could without being absolutely crushed by the best teams.
Like Otz said in the video, I try whenever I play, I attempt to win but I don't rely on busted perks, add-ons, and s-tier killers. I just try to have a fun match. I used to say in DbD you'd have fun matches and then the occasional bad match...now it's the opposite. I so desperately want to love DbD again, to be excited for new killers and skins, but honestly, if it doesn't change I might have to be done for a while, which really sucks. I just hope things change for the better.
I like how otz putting fact and covering the problems the devs have ,very helpful guy i like him
Average solo player here, it feels and looks either the same for me, or worse than before, I play killer too, and I either get totally new players or sweaty SWFs squads with high grades, on the same killer one match after the other.
Yeah it really does not make make sense. One match I went against Otz as survivor and literally next match I went against someone struggling to read scratchmarks and do the tiles. Same with killer, first game is 4 man "team" and next is people accidental slow vaulting and running to walls. It's just all over the place you never know you will you get against you.
yeah, all this new mmr system taught me as killer is how to spot which teams are a swf and to leave the lobby before the game starts lmao
@@Tobykaani It's not all over the place, the system is maintaining your 50 percent winrate. That is exactly what you should expect from a system designed with the goal of a 50% winrate for both sides. it can't risk giving people fair matches that could go either way, so it heavy-handedly gives you soft balls for a win, and then otz so you're guaranteed to lose. 50/50
I personaly think they should something like this: Make a Ranked match and a option for a Public match so people what they want to play, if feeling like swetting or wanting to have fun. Public match: you get matched with survivivors or killers no matter their rank/skill level. Ranked match: puts you with survivors or killers of your rank/skill level.
I'm just wondering like - ppl from BHVR say it's too complex to implement a system that will take more things into consideration while assigning MMR points. But they are able to distinguish from camping killers and non-camping killers (emblems), they can check if the chases happen and assign them to individual survivors, they can check for items, and so on for the archives.
Why not implement a system, that for example, checks if chases were distributed among different survivors and if, in the meanwhile, some other survivors were chased. Even if the chases are on and off - you can still determine if only one survivor was chased and approximately - for how long (e.g. by defining a time cap between which chases with the same survivor have to happen). Even more so - you have terror radius that you can take into consideration - if terror radius of a killer doesn't change, but it's still on top of a survivor that constantly moves, you can probably determine, with high probability, that this individual is still being chased.
I reckon that either there is a problem at BHVR with priorities or that the code in this project must be in a state that is very hard to manage if they really cannot use something that they have already implemented in one place and use it in the other. I just think that standing behind the "It's too complex" statement is really not that good of an excuse, because you really CAN and SHOULD take into account more than just WON or LOST factors, especially in this game which literally has values assigned to items, killers and add-ons that determine whether those are "better" or "worse" than the other ones.
You could probably solve this issue by adding more good perks, add-ons, and so on, and so forth (as well as balancing the existing ones) so that you don't see the same builds over and over again for the whole time while climbing in the ranks, which is probably the most problematic and annoying thing in this game. I agree that you should "play to win" and with everything "OP" that you have in order to rank up, but the "real OP things" in this game are just too rare and repeatable, which makes the META really really really boring.
There's no difference with mmr from the old system, it's all determined on kills and escapes, they spent two years making the same system.
The only difference is now it promotes camping again to secure kills rather than keeping people off generators or controlling the map.
But wasn't it based on pips in the old system? You could climb a rank without getting an escape if you got a lot of points in lightbringer, benevolent, evader and like silver in unbroken.
@@Souleater153GAME yeah the thing is when you camp you only get one maybe 2 kills depending on your matches obviously, like if you had survivors that did everything perfect you are probably only going to kill one or two of them unless you are running blight with tinkerer ruin undying and corrupt
Ive had plenty of instances where I get a 4k off a single early game basement play, and derank because I "Played to good" and didnt drag the game out to farm bloodpoints.
@@spicymajsy I'm not talking about pips I'm talking about overall experience, you will still get the shit amount of points if you chase the killer for 100% of the time, the new system makes it a tiny bit easier that's really about it, it's pretty much like the old system but without the pips, the pips actually made it a tiny bit more difficult to rankup, but even then anyone can play the game for a certain amount of time and adventually you will reach the highest rank/mmr. Everything is still based on the same points it's just now instead of seeing your progress with pips all they did was just hide that information.
I wish they'd just show us our mmr rank in- game
Ah this was helpful. Since MMR was switched on my survivor games have been really hard and killer games have been comically easy. Pre-MMR I would quite often just let survivors out and play killers I struggle with just to get a daily. I expect my opening killer MMR level was therefore very low and is taking a long time to build up. As a survivor, I escaped more often than not pre-MMR so my opening level was probably higher than it really should be and I’m constantly getting paired with killers that are much better than me. I guess it will start to make more sense in time but it feels a little slow to react at the moment
They already have a system that tracks things like heals, gens, chases, hits, hooks, it's literally blood points. Why didn't they utilize that?
That would make waaay to much sense for this company
I’m competitive and I don’t like being punished for doing well. This system has major flaws and the game is giving me no motivation to continue playing.
Same. I've been saying for almost a year now, if they balanced the game and added an unranked mode, and showed my MMR rank, I'd enjoy MMR much more
This is the exact reason why I haven't played since MMR system dropped. I have no fun playing killer OR survivor anymore.
Why is being matched against better more efficient players seen as punishment? How is it a reward to stomp out players that are clearly worse than you?
I used to play competitive, then I realized, this is the worst thing you can do
@@Lord_of_Bones when the system puts me (170 hours) against a 4 man SWF (each player with 2000+ hours), yeah it's a punishment.
I feel the new MMR is more of a killer MMR than a survivor MMR if it is based on survival/kills. They already have a semi-decent emblem system, so I don't see why also taking input from that would be a problem. If they want kills/survival to weight more heavy, sure, but doesn't mean you have to 100% ignore the rest.
good point
They are lazy/ don't know how to do it properly.
You surely know that they said they've been working on this bare bones system for two years LOL
They need to add in vanilla anti-camp and tunnel mechanics, because your MMR can tank quite easily by being tunneled and camped 3 matches in a row. The only way to counteract that is to hide untill someone else is being camped or tunneled, but the more you hide, the bigger your chances are of escaping through hatch, so you just hide some more and eventually do nothing.
The BP changes I suggested(to create a pool of BP for survivors, that way someone who is being chased for 5 gens and then camped to death earns a bit more than 8k BP) have been berated for also benefitting survivors who dont do shit. Even though a BP pool for survivors makes sense. Just like MMR based on how well the team did makes sense. If you die after 5 gens and your death caused 3 teammates to escape, that should be rewarded.
Survivor:
- Gen progress done by you
- Safe hook rescues done by you
- Healing done by you
- During a chase, gather points for the above named actions done by other survivors
- All survivors receive extra points based on the amount of survivors escaped. Even if you don't escape - you'll receive those points when other survivors manage to escape
Killer:
When getting an 4k => Receive max points
Otherwise
Receive points based on your momentum:
- Downs
- Hooks
- Kills
These actions are differently value depending on which killer you play and how many gens are left (5 to 4, 3 to 2, 1 to 0).
Example:
Receive a lot of points for downs, hooks and kills when 5 to 4 gens need to be repaired and a little less points than that when 3 to 2 gens need to be done.
When you play Trapper or Hag then you still receive a lot of points when 3 to 2 gens need to be done.
I feel like a lot of the issues are inherent in most if not all forms of ranked. It seems some of these problems could be solved by having another game mode that isn't ranked. I know there has been talk about this saying there isn't enough players so this will make queues take forever, but how many is enough? Also a thing that confuses me is in any other game that has ranked if you are wining consistently then you will be paired with people who are also wining consistently and yet in DBD people are upset by the fact that they are paired with people "try harding" or "sweating" that is how ranked works regardless of the game. Just because you are either super skilled naturally or have a metric ton of hours in the game that you are capable of winning without using the optimal perks/add-ons/offerings doesn't mean everyone else can or wants to play the way you do. In the end I can only see three fixes: add another game mode (be it casual or ranked with no perks/add-ons/items), add a ban list that bans op or meta perks/add-ons/items to encourage more diverse play, or make a more in depth 'looking-for-group' on discord for custom matches that is categized by how you want to play the game anywhere from trying out silly builds to sweating it out.
This system is anything but better. I get that it would be very hard to take all the variables into account but it is their job. If I loop a killer for 5 gens and then go down at the end, that should be a good boost to my mmr and good oof to the killers mmr. Like you said perks and killers played should be taken into account. Just like doing gens, totems and helping teammates should be.
I dont think it would be that hard at all honestly
They already have most of the data with the bp system
While I do agree, I see what otz is saying in the sense that, the "Guy who loops for 5 gens but dies in the end" scenario isn't a very likely scenario to begin with. Like, if you're good enough to loop a killer for 5 gens, then you can probably loop them all the way to the exit gates or hatch more often than not. If the skill gap between you and the killer is that huge, then you'll survive 9 times out of 10, and won't be matched up with people in that skill level again. There may be that 1 in a hundred time it gets you, and I'll definitely rage and Otz-Punch my monitor when it does😂
@@jrthehunter4309 we can say that about every scenario but that does not change the fact that this system accounts none of the things that can come into play during a match. While the developers already have some metrics they can use from the bloodpoints system. So they threw data they can collect from every player straight out of the window.
I literally just started playing as killer and now I see why killers are having a tough time
it's eye opening isnt it? i always thought killers had it easy before i switched lol
@@marshie1337 More players should switch their sides for a day and see how it is
It's a nightmare and very stressfull to play as killer 🥲
As a killer main I don't have issues at all 😂
Even better than killer is solo survior
something i noticed after this system came out is that it became extremely difficult for me to play as a killer? for reference, i had like over 100 hours into dbd and mostly played survivor solo. when i started to try playing killer more, it slowly eased me into more difficult survivors as it was like.. figuring out my skill range, sorta? i didn’t play too many games as killer, but it was more balanced for me and i’d usually get at least two kills each match. once the new mmr came out, i suddenly have struggled getting more than a single kill, if that, in most games as killer even though i hadn’t made any improvements since the old system. im not sure if this is entirely coincidental or if it’s putting me against harder survivors bc im a high-ranked survivor now, or if it was flaws from the old system, but something changed when the mmr came out and it doesn’t make me even want to attempt playing killer due to how difficult and tedious it is for me to play as one
A huge issue I have with it is the lack of transparency within the game. I can't see if the matching makes sense. I can't see if people are squaded together and skewing the average. I can't dispute results if I can't tell if anything is being calculated correctly.
I don't agree that this system doesn't encourage hiding. Now that the only thing that matters is staying alive you're actively encouraged to hide to ensure you live at the cost of your team dying.
Survivors cant win against any decent killer without all 4 teammates, if the entire team dies because of that once person, then they all rank down for easier matches.
That survivor will never go up and ruin good players games.
@@InsaneToats From an individual survivor's perspective it makes no difference if the teams wins or not. At least, assuming they care about MMR. From their perspective actions that reduce the team's chance of winning are logical.
I have only recently got back into the game, and it is fun as hell don't get me wrong, but honestly my issue is why is it hidden I would rather be told that my MMR is high or low so I know that I am the one who is doing bad or not.
My issue with the new system, it's either a killer who would give you a challenge and survivors who really struggle, or vice versa, having survivors who would bully the killer for not being as experienced as the survivors
My two concerns going into this,
1) 3000 mmr killer loses to 1800mmr team, this would mean HUGE mmr loss to killer.
2) killer face camping with noed and blood warden on reserve can guarantee 2k and are likely to even get a 3k if the remaining survivors do not leave immediately when they can,
More details: they fixed the negative ranking effects of going against a bad killer that can’t get any hooks indeed. What about bad killers that merely face camp the weakest link or someone who got unlucky (in terms of latency or sandbag or whatever). Now not only does the killer do better when face camping but survivors fare even worse if the killer brings noed and blood warden. Not to poo on the purpose of perks like insidious but I think the game could really benefit from both, allowing BT to work on Kobe and from gradual increase to successful Kobe odds based on killers lingering proximity. It’s hardly OP since a Kobe can happen once per survivor and is totally fair based on the current ranking system. It’s not the perfect solution, just the best bandaid that can be given without doing an overhaul on how many of the other factors work.