Wow ... very fascinating! Thank you for sharing all of that information. Your channel is going to be a gold mine of hard-to-find wushu historical information! :-D
I like to add something The five big Shaolin Temples - Henan , Fukien, Guangdong, Emei and Wudang were erased from the Qing Dynasty and there split into three families “ Triads” Hong Family ( hard style) Yu Family ( hard - soft style) Kong Family ( soft ) From the Yu Family derived the Four Doors - Lohan Men Wei Tuo Men Erlang Men Da Sheng Men - Hou Quan Men The Hou Quan Men is Found in Taiwan
Except all these schools lived on in China's rural villages. They were not really "Erased". They just weren't in the limelight. What you are describing is history that ONLY applies to specific lineages.
Haha sorry about that, depending on who I ask, they always say I've got one of these 3 accents 🤣 first time someone says I've got all 3 combined. Hopefully you've understand it all !
@@wushuquestofficial I get it. I feel that it made preferable to forbid CMA to fight against the influence of triads etc, from Qing Dynasty to Communist Era
I ask myself for a while what these traids do or did train. I think they must have a more combat oriented style or training. But its almost nothing known about this. Jimmy Woo who claim to came from a triad family teached an art that he called Kung Fu San Soo. And it is a very direct combat orientated style. In a book of someone who was more into daoist arts and traveled to Wu Dang he mentioned that he once get to know someone who said he is a member of a triad and showed him a bit of the stuff they train. He wrote that it was different simple and effective. But Choy Lay Fut originaly also had only 2 hand forms and was created to learn fighting in a short time.
Yes, it is well known that members of different ranks in these secret societies were masters or skilled fighters. Listing all the styles would be too complicated, but for sure, considering the very first goal of these societies, the styles were combat oriented... But well most styles back then still were 😁
Thank you! Hope there weren't too much shortcuts? I felt like there were already many Chinese words and cultural information, so didn't want the video to be too overwhelming haha
Thank you for nice video. But I disagree a little. It has already been proven that Southern Shaolin did not exist, and the story of its burning and the escape of five monks is just a legend coming from the Chinese novel 萬年青奇才新傳. Tiandihui, most likely, only used this legend to tell about the "creation history" of the society. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thank you for your comment! You've got a very good point. In my opinion it is not that black or white. This is why I always use conditional tense when I mention the Shaolin temple in my video, using "would" and "should" all the time, because to me the final truth still hasn't been exposed and will probably never be 😁 There are "proofs" that the temple didn't exist and "proofs" that it did. In both case, to me these proofs are not 100% clear. As for the historians saying it existed they disagree on the place. Some say it was in Fuqing, others in Putian, and others again in Quanzhou. In my opinion, if the temple existed the most tangible proofs point to Quanzhou. Now in my own personal opinion, since we know for sure that warrior monks travelled to the south and many of them stayed there for decades or for their whole life, I would say there might have been several temple in which they lived and taught martial arts in the south. Small and big. Because of gifts or other artefacts from the northern Shaolin, we can find "proofs" in some temples in the south. But mostly because Shaolin was already a big name back then, I believe some temples might have changed their name to Shaolin. It was the case in the north so why not in the south? However, southern Shaolin temple or not, warrior monks indeed lived and taught their styles and modifications of their styles to people in the south, and like in the north, where also influence by southern styles that already existed before the supposed southern Shaolin temple appeared. It's a thing in Chinese culture to use a name that resonates with people even if the business has little to no relationship with that name. For example in China or Taiwan etc, most wedding stores are called "Paris" or have "Paris" in their name, since it resonates with "romantic" but they aren't linked to any other store in Paris whatsoever. But they do sell wedding robes. Well I believe it was probably the same with the southern Shaolin temple haha. Happy to discuss that with you!
@@wushuquestofficial Thanks for the extended answer. Of course, you are right, as always in history, not everything is so simple here. And I agree, out of the 5 or 6 new Shaolins built in China, the one in Quanzhou has the most documented references to Shaolin. It is also, of course, very likely that the Shaolin monks taught in other monasteries. Speaking of the legend, I had in mind exactly 5 escaped monks from the stories about the burning of Southern Shaolin. And, of course, I completely agree that in Chinese culture it is customary to refer to their well-known names. In the case of wushu schools, history is generally closely intertwined with myths. I think it's because of the great influence of ancestor worship in China. It is always more honorable to say that my school comes from Bodhidharma or Yue Fei than to admit that I learned it from a familiar grandfather from a neighboring village. I think this is the case with a southern styles. :)
@@tamerlanabasguliyev2871 Regarding the 5 to ancestors, if we suppose they really existed and were actually people, In my opinion they were way more than 5. But 5 is such a nice number to remember and had been carved into stone once Hong Kong movies started dealing with these "5 ancestors". Again it's my very personal opinion 😁
@@wushuquestofficial In our time for sure we know about from Hong Kong movies. But in China they were popular much earlier because of number of novels. But unfortunately, I never saw any documents or chronicles about. Probably, you're right, they were more than 5, and not monks. Regardless, these styles are great 😂
@@wushuquestofficial , I always thought the 5 Ancestors were entire schools of martial arts. So naturally there would be many more than just five individual people involved.
I like your content! I hope you continue to make more!
Thank you very much Andrew! Definitely planning on many more video, stay tuned!
Une petite rectification dans les extraits de films : le premier extrait vient du Syndicat du crime 2 (John Woo, 1987).
Effectivement ! Merci pour la rectification !
Wow ... very fascinating! Thank you for sharing all of that information. Your channel is going to be a gold mine of hard-to-find wushu historical information! :-D
Thanks, let's hope so! I wish the gods of RUclips will hear you haha!
I like to add something
The five big Shaolin Temples - Henan , Fukien, Guangdong, Emei and Wudang were erased from the Qing Dynasty and there split into three families “ Triads”
Hong Family ( hard style)
Yu Family ( hard - soft style)
Kong Family ( soft )
From the Yu Family derived the Four Doors -
Lohan Men
Wei Tuo Men
Erlang Men
Da Sheng Men - Hou Quan Men
The Hou Quan Men is Found in Taiwan
Thank you Master Jiang, you are correct. Thank you for adding this important detail to the video 🙏
I like your channel- keep up the good work
@@JiangYuShan猴拳門江玉山 Thank you very much Master Jiang. It means a lot coming from you! I will keep working hard 🙏
Except all these schools lived on in China's rural villages. They were not really "Erased". They just weren't in the limelight.
What you are describing is history that ONLY applies to specific lineages.
I understand you topic but I don't understand how you've got that french/chinese english accent XD good work haha
Haha sorry about that, depending on who I ask, they always say I've got one of these 3 accents 🤣 first time someone says I've got all 3 combined. Hopefully you've understand it all !
@@wushuquestofficial It was as clear as it gets. Would you say that secret societies 've had a bad influence on CMA ?
@@pierrewilliam7119 in my opinion it didn't. In a way, it actually helped preserve styles that might have had disappear nowadays.
@@wushuquestofficial I get it. I feel that it made preferable to forbid CMA to fight against the influence of triads etc, from Qing Dynasty to Communist Era
I ask myself for a while what these traids do or did train. I think they must have a more combat oriented style or training. But its almost nothing known about this. Jimmy Woo who claim to came from a triad family teached an art that he called Kung Fu San Soo. And it is a very direct combat orientated style. In a book of someone who was more into daoist arts and traveled to Wu Dang he mentioned that he once get to know someone who said he is a member of a triad and showed him a bit of the stuff they train. He wrote that it was different simple and effective. But Choy Lay Fut originaly also had only 2 hand forms and was created to learn fighting in a short time.
Yes, it is well known that members of different ranks in these secret societies were masters or skilled fighters. Listing all the styles would be too complicated, but for sure, considering the very first goal of these societies, the styles were combat oriented... But well most styles back then still were 😁
Super ta chaîne ✅🦾💯
Merci beaucoup ! 🙏
😂 I remembered my Baji coach mentioning some Hung Men sects are black society connected. This is so cool.
It's still the case for some, and especially for lion dance schools!
But Chinese martial arts must have Wude! 😂 Jokes aside, very educational! Thanks for sharing! 🙂
Thank you! Hope there weren't too much shortcuts? I felt like there were already many Chinese words and cultural information, so didn't want the video to be too overwhelming haha
Thank you for nice video. But I disagree a little. It has already been proven that Southern Shaolin did not exist, and the story of its burning and the escape of five monks is just a legend coming from the Chinese novel 萬年青奇才新傳. Tiandihui, most likely, only used this legend to tell about the "creation history" of the society. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Thank you for your comment! You've got a very good point.
In my opinion it is not that black or white. This is why I always use conditional tense when I mention the Shaolin temple in my video, using "would" and "should" all the time, because to me the final truth still hasn't been exposed and will probably never be 😁
There are "proofs" that the temple didn't exist and "proofs" that it did. In both case, to me these proofs are not 100% clear.
As for the historians saying it existed they disagree on the place. Some say it was in Fuqing, others in Putian, and others again in Quanzhou.
In my opinion, if the temple existed the most tangible proofs point to Quanzhou.
Now in my own personal opinion, since we know for sure that warrior monks travelled to the south and many of them stayed there for decades or for their whole life, I would say there might have been several temple in which they lived and taught martial arts in the south. Small and big.
Because of gifts or other artefacts from the northern Shaolin, we can find "proofs" in some temples in the south. But mostly because Shaolin was already a big name back then, I believe some temples might have changed their name to Shaolin. It was the case in the north so why not in the south?
However, southern Shaolin temple or not, warrior monks indeed lived and taught their styles and modifications of their styles to people in the south, and like in the north, where also influence by southern styles that already existed before the supposed southern Shaolin temple appeared.
It's a thing in Chinese culture to use a name that resonates with people even if the business has little to no relationship with that name.
For example in China or Taiwan etc, most wedding stores are called "Paris" or have "Paris" in their name, since it resonates with "romantic" but they aren't linked to any other store in Paris whatsoever. But they do sell wedding robes.
Well I believe it was probably the same with the southern Shaolin temple haha.
Happy to discuss that with you!
@@wushuquestofficial Thanks for the extended answer. Of course, you are right, as always in history, not everything is so simple here. And I agree, out of the 5 or 6 new Shaolins built in China, the one in Quanzhou has the most documented references to Shaolin.
It is also, of course, very likely that the Shaolin monks taught in other monasteries. Speaking of the legend, I had in mind exactly 5 escaped monks from the stories about the burning of Southern Shaolin.
And, of course, I completely agree that in Chinese culture it is customary to refer to their well-known names. In the case of wushu schools, history is generally closely intertwined with myths. I think it's because of the great influence of ancestor worship in China. It is always more honorable to say that my school comes from Bodhidharma or Yue Fei than to admit that I learned it from a familiar grandfather from a neighboring village. I think this is the case with a southern styles. :)
@@tamerlanabasguliyev2871 Regarding the 5 to ancestors, if we suppose they really existed and were actually people, In my opinion they were way more than 5. But 5 is such a nice number to remember and had been carved into stone once Hong Kong movies started dealing with these "5 ancestors".
Again it's my very personal opinion 😁
@@wushuquestofficial In our time for sure we know about from Hong Kong movies. But in China they were popular much earlier because of number of novels. But unfortunately, I never saw any documents or chronicles about. Probably, you're right, they were more than 5, and not monks. Regardless, these styles are great 😂
@@wushuquestofficial ,
I always thought the 5 Ancestors were entire schools of martial arts. So naturally there would be many more than just five individual people involved.