A Theory On The REAL Origins of Wing Chun - Kung Fu Report - Adam Chan
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- Опубликовано: 4 мар 2021
- Ever wonder where Wing Chun REALLY comes from. We have a theory. Let's Discuss!
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Interesting. When I visited China to research White Crane, they took me to a village named Yongchun (its birthplace). A local master said Yongchun is also pronounced ”Wingchun”. Funny because the origin story of a woman founding White Crane and Wingchun are literally the same... 😳 And Bruce Lee studied Wingchun, yet became famous for his whooping crane shout. 🤪 Keep up the great work sifu! 👍
Oh sheet, hello Jesse, I enjoy your videos also. Bruce didn't get it from White Crane (but I see why there could be confusion). The crane shout is very distinctively different if you put them side by side.
Future video suggestions: Comparison between Hakka's Southern Praying Mantis and Uechi-Ryu. You can already guess where I'am going with this,right?😏
Also, other Hakka styles comparison to Okinawan Karate - Bak Mei, Lung Ying, Lam Gar, Lau Gar (debatable?), Wanderer/Beggar Style (very obscure),etc.
Whaaat?! The KARATE NERD!!! An awesome cameo in the coment section!!!
Well that was a LIE! Wing chun was developed by the five elders of the Shaolin Temple and consists of five systems: White eyebrow, white crane, hung gar, choy li fut (or an earlier version that was to become Choy li fut), and Shaolin. There was NO Ng Mui or Wing Chun! That was just a rouse to keep the Manchurians out of the temple while they trained and developed wing chun to overthrow the government. There are no records they ever existed!!
I was thinking of this when watching your White Crane videos
A farmer's hands are conditioned by definition of his occupation. Working with bare hands, manipulating the ground gives you fingers strong as hell.
Very interesting and makes sense. I now understand the connection between Southern Mantis and Wing Chun. Thanks Adam!!
That was a really interesting comparison, but could it also be possible that rather than Wing Chun coming from Hakka arts, that both Wing Chun and Hakka arts share a common ancestor in some Fujian art like White Crane or even Taizu Quan. Don’t forget White Crane even originates from Yong Chun county, which is written as 永春 similar to 咏春
I am no expert in Chinese MA but that is exactly what I thought. Like divergent evolution. So the shocking thing came later when wing chun already broke off
@@alLEDP
Most of us are so brainwashed by movies and advertising materials, depicting Wingchun and Kung fu to Cantonese and Foshan history.
Origin of Wingchun is from the South Shaolin Temple in Fujian. It was then the largest Shaolin Temple in China, larger than the North Shaolin Temple. Unfortunately it was completely burnt down by Emperor Chia Chin. Most senior monks were killed, except the five, including nun Ng Mui. They gradually worked their way south, avoid being hunted by Ching soldiers, to the Foshan region.
Ng Mui’s Wingchun was based on the White Cane and Snake techniques. Today the White Crane Temple still exists in Engchun(Wingchun) Fujian, where they hold regular demonstrations of the White Crane techniques for the public.
NOT all thing Kung Fu is Cantonese and Foshan.
@@keonggan7982 assume to much you do. However I agree to a point.
Movie martial arts drive me insane.
Right now Cobra Kai is a very popular right now.
However I have a bit of knowledge after 41 years in martial arts. Working or trying to in Muay Thai . At 55 and many Injuries from life, martial arts, and fighting for 15 years, is playing hell on my body.
Movies and TV shows put these thoughts in people's heads they to can be awesome in martial arts in a few episodes.
I heard the same story as keong gan from a Shaolin master who has two lineages that are (if I remember correctly) 4th and 7th generation shaolin. His website is shaolin.org
@@keonggan7982 the Southern Shaolin Temple is just folklore and not legitimate history, as are the five elders.... there is a documentary coming out which discusses this in detail on my channel next week
I'm so glad to have found this channel. I only wish my best friend who passed 8 years ago would have saw your video. He was a practitioner of Wing Chun and Tai Chi an artist and philosopher. Rest in peace Danny.
So he was a bullshitter, both mentally and physically. Did he die of stage IV bullshitorexia?
RIP, Danny.
@@jkdbuck7670 thank you homie that meant so much!!!
All these styles come from fujian in origin with the southern shaolin
This was some awesome investigation you did into Wing Chun origin.
Have you come across Ben Judkins Kung Fu Tea? Mostly academic articles of Chinese Martial Arts and he and guest authors often write about it's history. Diffinitely worth a read if you're interested.
Hi Adam, I'm really intrigued by this theory and appreciate the time you spent putting this video together. Good luck with your endeavours. Respect.
As always great content. Thanks Sifu.
I like what you said about people that criticize others on the internet. It's good to keep in mind that these people seek fame and income from criticizing others and many of these people are not even martial artists. So thanks for that.
Great video Adam...I really like the way you contextualized the timeframe and the fact that these people train hard as their lives were at risk. That puts a completely different spin on the loose talk of modern day individuals claiming to be in the know. Thank you for imparting this knowledge!
Really informative. I've seen many origin story videos, but i love the way you illustrated it with video examples
Wing Chun is directly drawn from traditional internal snake style (iron cobra). It appears many schools forget Wing Chun is an internal art and daily qigong practice is an essential component. It was indeed created by a Nun, I was privileged to be taught her Wudang Taiki Gong short form.
Will you say where and by whom?
She never existed. You were conned.
Neat talk. Thank’s, Adam. Hope all is well on your end.
I honestly wish more people would see this video and learn from it. I agree 100% with every point. Great video!
Amazing stuff guys. Maybe you could do a video on how to train that shocking energy, that would be amazing
Brilliant observations. Love your videos Sifu!
Great stuff thanks for sharing!
Great stuff ,as always
Really enjoyed this video.
So good, I put a link to it in my blog post. All of the video is great but the point of taking care of who you take advice from is really important.
Excellent stuff, sifu Adam!!
Red Boat Wing Chun style really points to the fact that many Cantonese, particular the Hongkies, lived in junks. The long pole, the hour glass frame is useful for narrow boats, ally ways and undtsble surfaces like those on and around water craft. Whilst Choy Lay Fut and Hung Gar appear to have wide frames in the forms, many techniques get shortened in fighting applucations and training. However, its not hard yo contrast open places, barren feilds even in Hong Kong vs the junks that people lived in up to the mid 80s.
Hi Adam, will you be teaching the hakka shock power desplayed in this video.
I’m glad I discover your videos sir 😊
Great video and very informative and professional Advice.
I ennoy your commentary...Well spoken. I can tell you're a
good and humble guy.
thanks for share your knowledge
Thanks Sifu Great Work.
Well done sir, nice video
Thanks for uploading this video
Great insight sifu and i guess the knowledge of pressure points are essential too.. knowing where and when to use pointy weapons... love your practical demonstration
Nice info thanks for sharing
I've learned some Wing Chun through a couple of teachers, then transitioned into Northern Shaolin and more recently Bagua. Your material is always interesting because it often gets into the reality of combat and how little changes in application can alter the results. Also a big fan of your analysis of various systems you have trained. I know you shared this video two years ago, but I wanted to say thanks. It's a favorite.
Thank You for this video @Adam I love understanding the history of Arts
Very good information
Brilliant Adam.
Thanks for bringing light to the subject as this has been a curious thought for many of us. Variety is the spice of life, and its interesting how the cantonese red boat opera people interpreted and incorporated Hakka arts. I like how you compare the concepts of hakka arts and wing chun. If you have a chance, please do one comparing with Fujian White Crane and Five Ancestors Fist as well, as they also have a fairly upright stance and concaved back. Would like your professional opinion on those too! 😁
Awesome well said
Very like your videos !
Great share, Bro!!! : )
Man I enjoyed listening to this. Started out first with Taiwanese Kung Fu, and later learned Wing Chun. I understood by experience and by feeling everything you said. Although Taiwan is not Canton, or Northern China, it's Kung Fu reminds me much of Hakka, and Cantonese Kung Fu combined. Much appreciated.
This is fantastic.
Much appreciated, cheers.
I'd learned some of the differences between northern and southern styles, but I never knew about the Hakkanese origins of some of those arts. Also, you're absolutely right about "context." Even outside of martial arts, context is everything. Great video, SiFu Adam! Thanks for sharing!
The history of Wing Chun is very intriguing. Thank you for presenting this topic. I hope to see more on Wing Chun’s origins which some postulate to have been developed over thousands of years. Thank you.
Thank you. I like the content. I want to learn more about Kung Fu and Chinese culture from a native. Please post more videos.
Very interesting, thanks
Oh man. Much respect.
I really enjoyed your discussion here. I wish there was a tea house (or coffehouse) where WC people from different groups would hang out to discuss this stuff. Anyway, I have also have wondered whether could be a Hakka connection far back in Wing Chun's history, as well as some Fukien white crane influence? Regardless, I am an old geezer and not a "professional", but I have been studying WC since the late 70's and teaching on and off for a fair amount of that time. In the branch of Yip Man WC/VT in which I spent most of my time, we did use some of what you call "arm shocking" techniques, notably with gaun sau. Done right it hurts like hell ...just like a good FMA "gunting". Sometimes a fak sau or even an upward man sau can use the same energy.
My personal belief as to why we don't do more of that "shocking" in WC has do do with feeling and control - what we learn in chi-sau. If you hit the bridges with such "shocking" force, you may injure and knock the limb aside, but you also lose contact with the bridge arm and the corresponding control. After all our main objective is to hit the opponent's core ... to hit centerline targets, not to hurt the arms.
Another thing.... as to using hard "pointy" techniques such as biu sau and phoenix-eye fist... well we did that too, but with a soft, flexible or whipping energy. My Chinese sifu, himself a student of Yip Man didn't approve of the "hard" approach. Nevertheless, In my early years befor I met him, I did some iron palm hand conditioning, and much later, in my early fifties, I again took up hard style hand conditioning, attempting to develop a "hard" phoenix-eye, eventually building up to doing sets of 20 phoenix-eye push ups on a concrete floor. Bad idea. For a while I got really strong, but then begin to develop signs of arthritis in spite of following a strict regimen with dit dar jow and everything. I quit that stuff before I did too much damage, and now at age 65 I stick with soft techniques. Those old masters back in the 19th Century didn't live that long. Me, I'd like to live as long as my dad. He will be turning 96 this month and still goes skiing every week. You don't last that long if you don't respect your body.
So awesome! Adam Chan is an encyclopedia 😅
If I lived near there, I'd train in his school every day.
Very very interesting. Great info. I have always wanted to learn the Hakka act since I am Hakka myself but ended up learning and now teaching Wing Chun. You've now made me wanting to go back and started doing more research on Hakka act again, more of finding out my Hakka heritage again. Thank you. Are you Hakka by the way?
Congratulations for the video, professor. Two main things that I noticed, first I practice Siu Lam Weng Chun, and yes, the story between Wing Chung and Weng Chun are a little confuse, difficult to understand the similarities and differences between those two, even more where they came from, but your ideas about its origins makes a lot of sense. Second, the pointing techniques, amazing again, cause I also practice north praying mantis and the Diu Sau (praying mantis claw) its not used mainly for attack, but for grabbing, and people misunderstood that as they forget about how much the creators of those techniques trained their hands as you said.
Again, congratulations for the video and thanks for sharing your experience with the history of martial arts.
Thank you for the insight Great Master ☯︎︎
Great video, thank you. Also explanation at 10:10 is just awesome.
Well said. Amen!
Thank you sir that was great I took a lot from it thanks
When I took Wing Chun classes the teacher wanted to show everybody that 6 ft.2 and 220 lbs.didnt mean anything. I was his crash test dummy and he had me up in the air and hot me like 30 times before I hit the ground and walked away jacked up.
Love the art!
great display and history lesson
Thank you for all you teach and I respect you very much your skills are very high in the fact you've trained your movement are quite a lot I practice hunger 20 years look at the 12th bridge philosophy and approached to combat that there has all of it
Have you seen some of the wing chun in Duncan Leung's lineage, or some of the stuff by Sergio Iadarola? There are a few wing chun people who seem to have that shocking effect. I myself first came across it via my teacher who had some exposure to Duncan Leung lineage training.
On point sifu!
Thanks for a nice video Adam, I was woundering if the form is also similar or? Since that as far as I understood, was the way they wrote down the style, to pass it onwards. It seems there are many forms.. when I see how different people under Ip man does it and how he did it just before he had to leave us.
"If you keep listening to dumb people you just get dumber"...lol...(there's so much of this going on in the pandemic) ...great stuff. Wish I'd find you while I lived on Mariner...now 'stuck' back in UK. Keep up the great content.
Chinese proverbs say: the one that knows and knows that knows is a master follow him .
This guy is master showing not only knowledge but logic.
Good points! :)
Thanks a lot.
Thanks For Sharing Sifu Adam .So Many Different Stories By People Around The World. Thanks For Information Great To Get Real Truth In Any Martial Arts Cheung.
Fascinating
Well said.🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻☯️
Wing Chun came from a Nun in the shaolin temple pre manchu named Ng Mu. Then it was expounded on by martial artists on the Red Boats and handed down.
Wether or not she was Hakkanese or not, I dont know, but this is difficult to ignore since its the same story every master will tell you.
Yet another informative film
Thank you Adam.
I'm interested to learn more about the shock techniques that you mentioned in the clip, you did it too fast. As a favour I don't suppose you could do a video on that could you! Please 🙏
These techniques depend on internal power (Chi) for explosive power and effectiveness. Wing chun does not have this. Hsing I has this internal energetics. Likewise with Tai Chi and Bagua.
Also the points you bring about professionals is valid.
Awesomeness coooooooool!!!!!!!
No doubt you are an expert. Well explained . Thanks sifu ❤️ from 🇱🇰 sri lanka
Another great lesson.
Thanks Sifu 🙏🏽 🐺
But I prefer the technique that is more aggressive , so you distract from the pain rather than the battle.
Great video. Very interesting the characteristics you identified in the arts native to the Cantonese. Do you think White Crane is a native Cantonese art?
Gday Adam, that was a really interesting, well informed and well presented vid. I'm a Wing Chun teacher from the Jim Fung / Chu Shong Tin / Yip Man lineage in Australia. I had never heard that comparison between the Cantonese and Hakka kung fu systems, very interesting indea, WC certainly is as you say compact and close in like the Hakka approach. It's funny but when you demonstrated attacking your friends arms I was reminded of a Wing Chun saying, not well known - Punch the punch and kick the kick. That's how I was taught, and the underlying principle is to 'cut through the opponents defense like bean curd' :)
Produces the same sort of pain and grimacing in training partners. In our lineage we take the soft approach in that we want to strike as if the opponents arms are not there.
I wont waffle on with all of it. I enjoyed this. Re the sharp or pointy attacks. We don't use them generally as just as you say most of us would get our fingers broken. We have a tradition of palm strike to bone fist to flesh, as well as striking with forearms elbows shins and of course fists and palms
However our Sigung mastered the bil gee striking out a concentrated force with finger tip but not the hardening approach, its the soft empty chi in joints approach. He was a true professional of 60 years plus practicing and training and teaching many hours every day. Of course some people will laugh at that but I have felt one of his top students tap my upper chest with a finger and it was as if a needle pierced me and somehow detonated deep inside and just kept hurting for ages.
We believe that chi and mind force is very real but not in some yoda way, just a empty unified body and mind focused on points in the opponent.
I look forward to checking out the rest of your vids.
About the Punch the punch , I was taught to deliver during a punch, the cutting strength of my full forearm surface onto a single spot of my opponent's arm, thereby damaging him but not me. That way, I also do not lose contact, nor make the contact too heavy and useful by my opponent. I hope you get the point. My teacher was a junior student of IP Man.
Great video !! Listen only well-educated martial artists!!
Btw I love your "those were different kinds of people back then" observation lol. People seem to forget that 300-400 years ago their daily lives were more strenuous physical activity than most pro fighters martial arts training is today.
It's been 30 years but I can still remember the sting (& subsequent bruises) from Sifu blocking my puny attacks. I thought his arms were hard until I exchanged a few blows with Randy Williams at his seminar....... his arms were like fucking granite, he could defeat you just by blocking.
Great theory
I can answer your question.
Because Wing Chun doesn't play "hands". Focusing on the external limbs is only a distraction, if you encounter someone fluid enough or someone with softness to those "hardness" or shock techniques; it will only be intercepted , countered or easy to read.
Great video Chan Sifu! Have you read Ben Judkins' The Creation of Wing Chun: A Social History of the Southern Chinese Martial Arts? He also compares Hakka styles and Wing Chun.
Interesting research, Mr Adam Chan. Thank you much!
My research didn’t yield your results, but that the nun, Ng Muy, was key in it’s development. Moreover, my teacher, Dr Henry Leung of the Buddhas Hand lineage of Wingchun, which I came across in NYC, suggested to me that it has a relationship with Taijiquan in prioritizing a “defense first” protocol in karmic and monastic philosophy. I suggest this might be why Wingchun was “softened”, as you say it seems to have been. Indeed, the idea that lethal aggression be prioritized last in the call to battle was what inspired me most, eventually to blend my practices of both styles. This was because Taiji informed my pursuit of Wingchun philosophically, while Wingchun informed my Taiji’s efficacy. Never-the-less, I am keenly conscious of the fuller range of practice from yin to yang, thanks to efforts like yours.
Thanks again for your example as a practitioner, a teacher and a researcher. You are quite nobly gifted. Blessings to you, Mr Chan!
U R Sooo 💯 👍👍👍!! In those days where there's less to do , an athlete will spend hours on in developing their lumps to be an effective fighter 💪!! I learned that from the movies & my own personal training.
In goju, it was explained to me that a soft block was better so the opponent would not tense up in pain, therefore the next strike could penetrative further.
Muito bom grande mestre
Very well explained. Thank you.
However, not only the Hakanese martial arts belonged to the high stance category. Numerous Hokkien (Fujian) martial arts such as White Crane,. 5 Ancestors etc as well as Hainanese martial arts are also high stance.
On the Fa Jin (explosive shock power generation), a number of mainland Wing Chun lineages have that too, identical to many internal stye martial arts.
Hakka people had very interesting martial arts. This is the best explanation I've seen or heard about how these two families(Northern Southern) might cross pollinated each other, exposing some of the best from each. Having studied Wing Chun learning various other styles, you can see a lot of parallels. Hawkins Cheung used to tell us that the first form was the most valuable, but until learned a couple of Hakka forms it never made sense to me. Learning a Long Form made all of the difference for me personally.
Another thing you didn't mention is that farmers tend to be very, very, strong. Even modern day farmers who have labour saving devices, are strong. Most likely those Hakka people were very strong themselves. Also, their hand conditioning results would be like that of Okinawan karateka. Those guys have strong hands and also use pointy techniques.
Awesome video, so Adam what about the Art of Wu Mei? Have you considered it, if you are aware? I saw a video of a teacher demonstrate her techniques and it has a ton of energetics in it. And she is supposed to be the nun who taught wing chun!
The Wing Chun IP Man system is unique it has it`s own flavor. The skill can be similar to many systems, TaiChi or Crane the lists can go on. There are other systems of Wing Chun that are very different I have witnessed these. When you look and study deep into the Classic Ip Man system as myself I never seem to stop learning it`s very refined.
Very interesting and regarding the debated pointed hand debate , this would also indicate that the protruding two large knuckles from a Karate style fist is a better weapon over the relatively flat surface from WingChuns popular three knuckle landing?
Hi Adam, I've sent you an email through your website regarding this unique question.
also, thinking about it, the cantonese martial mostly tends to focus on the hands, not much elbows or forearm techniques other than it being for guarding. But the way I train (I'm still unprofessional with no fights because I'm still a full-time student who is 16 years of age) is I punch the walls of my house, form a palm then slap the wall or palm hit it, then I go slam it with my forearms using something to a muay thai elbow (down to up if I remember correctly) but instead of the elbow hitting it's my forearms. Yeah it hurts but not much anymore.
I trained for a time with a Lo Man Kam Disciple- their Wing Chun uses force in pak sao and other techniques. I came from Moy Yat Lineage and was taught differenty. It did hurt and make my forearms back and blue practicing with the LMK guys.
I se a Filipino aspect to the "HAKKA" variation. This is an interesting lineage theory. Thank's for the great video's!!!!
You make very valid points. As a martial artist that has trained most of my life. Of course the only thing I know is I know very little. That said I've trained in wing chun I really enjoyed it also kali,arnis, JKD, some Muay Thai, wrestling an boxing. Anyway never had much experience with kung-fu an the stuff I've come across is more like movie dance moves then real fighting. How can you tell someone really knows something
Very interesting :)
I discovered the penetrative "hakka power" by a seminar with Sifu John.
It feels like a type of "ball and chain" power that hits with dead weight and short contraction at impact, like you demonstrate in this video.
I find it a really effective power against committed punches, but somewhat hard to do against skilled opponents.
The more common wing chun power seem to be less committed, but makes up for the lack of power with better recovery.
Or what do you think, Sifu Chan?