Evidence Reylo is Endgame: TFA and pre-TLJ
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2024
- #reylo #reyloiscanon #reyloisendgame
In today's episode, Denise and Lee discuss why Reylo is endgame for the Sequel Trilogy - obvi. This episode covers the period from 2013 to 2017: pre TFA through pre TLJ. Stay tuned for more discussion and reviewing of Reylo receipts!
CONTENT:
0:11 Reylo is endgame introduction.
1:09 JJ's 2013 interviews indicate Reylo was planned.
3:16 Breaking news: "the boy" in this story is Ben Solo and "the girl" is Rey.
6:20 Kathleen Kennedy speaks (2015).
8:51 Rey Solo is canon - from a certain point of view.
11:48 Daisy Ridley, John Boyega and Oscar Isaac discuss ST romances on the Ellen Show (2015).
13:15 LF teases Reywalker sarcastic applause
15:24 Did Kathleen Kennedy say the Skywalkers are done?
17:31 people are offended by Reylo: damsel in distress edition.
21:30 people are offended by Reylo: sexual interrogation edition.
22:41 What girl: a Reylo fairytale begins.
26:25 Kylo Ren and Milky Chance.
28:08 Kylo Ren's show-stopping hair moment in TFA and why it matters.
29:08 Geeking out on character design: Reylo and others SW romances.
32:07 the other sex scene in TFA: snow fight edition.
32:55 Rey bypasses the compressor - to Ben Solo's heart.
33:57 golden quote of the day: "I've never seen a movie where the man and the woman lock swords, stare into each other's eyes --- and then later they don't do something."
34:45 in JJ's words: Rey's parents are not in episode VII.
35:42 The bridal carry and the case of the strategically placed bag.
37:32 gushing about our featured Reylo artist: / ksart-things
38:01 Mary has turned to the dark side: send help. Also: we're on Facebook and Instagram, huzzah!
38:24 Contact.
CREDITS:
Speakers|Denise, Lee
Video editing|Lee
Audio editing|Denise, Lee
Listen to the audio version of this episode on Soundcloud: / evidence-reylo-is-endgame
Today's featured artist is KSART-THINGS
Visit her blog for more beautiful artwork: / ksart-things
IMAGES:
Reylo thank you
ksart-things.t...
"You are so lonely"
ksart-things.t...
Reylo happy gif
ksart-things.t...
"Reylo is coming"
ksart-things.t...
Something missed in the TLJ trailer
ksart-things.t...
Reylo love
ksart-things.t...
Kylo Ren
ksart-things.t...
**Awful memes by Lee are free to use!
MUSIC:
Intro:
Loyalty Freak music - Extra Metal
freemusicarchiv...
Outro:
Stellardrone - Fermi Paradox
stellardrone.b...
REFERENCES:
(2018) Rian Johnson: finger touching scene "is the closest thing to sex we'll get in Star Wars" via Star Wars Stuff Twitter
/ 973334388057493512
(2018) Mark Hamill Calls Out The Last Jedi Sex Scene - Comicbook.com (2018)
comicbook.com/s...
(2017) USA Today - What's Going on Between Rey and Kylo Ren in Episode 8?
www.usatoday.c...
(2013) French Metro - J.J. Abrams Interview
www.contactmusi...
(2013) Wired - JJ Abrams interview
www.wired.com/...
(2015) Costco Connection - Kathleen Kennedy Interview:
www.costcoconne...
(2015) Entertainment Weekly - Lucasfilm comments on #Where'sRey backlash:
www.ew.com/gall...
(2017) The Hollywood Reporter - Star Wars: Kathleen Kennedy Planning For More Rey and Finn Beyond Episode IX
www.hollywoodr...
Harry Potter references:
harrypotter.wik...
15 Signs Harry and Ginny Weren't Meant to Be:
www.thethings....
CONTACT:
We hope you liked our first episode! Leave us a comment, questions or suggestions! You can also contact us here:
lordsofthesith.podcast@gmail.com
/ lordsofthesithpodcast
/ lordsithpodcast
/ lordsithpodcast
/ lordsofthesith.podcast
Listen to us on SOUNDCLOUD | Lords of the Sith Podcast
/ lordsofthesithpodcast
Thank you for watching! May the Force serve you well! ;)
Ben Solo/Kylo's story has been built up very slowly and mysteriously over the past 2 films, which tells me that they are saving the meat of his story for episode 9. Why would they spend so much time on humanizing Kylo, having him forge an emotional connection with Rey, showing him distraught over killing his father and unable to kill his mother, if he was simply going to end up a ruthless villain? His choices mirror young adulthood in the sense that people usually have to make their own mistakes in order to really learn from them. "The greatest teacher failure is."
Couldn't have said it better. I think J.J. Abrams needs to see this comment because I've heard some rumors that he's taking Kylo in the opposite direction and pushing him toward deeper darkness.
AV3STA I think Ben will be ‘darker’ in the first act (as ruthless Supreme Leader), yes. But then, if the leaks are true, he’ll team up with Rey in a mission to find an ancient Jedi artifact to defeat the rumored new villian for which the Resistance and the First Order will have to join forces to defeat him. So, here begins Ben’s redemption and romance with Rey, possibly.
I think they are on point. But all these arguments are only nails in the coffin to me. This is just Sjw wars 2019 that accidentally has a SW label. Straight unrelenting trash in my opinion. It’s a cash grab that had great potential and was complete and utterly wasted because they didn’t care about the audience, the story, and the actors. They only cared about their perceived moral high ground. How meta🤦🏻♂️. 🤢.
I want episode 9 to be 4 hours long. I don’t want *anything* cut from it.
Julia Crawford hahaha true!! I don't mind watching a 4-hrs star wars in the cinema lolzzz 😂😂
Nur Amalina Compared to binge watching 4 seasons of 45 minute episodes, a 4 hour movie would be nothing.
What if SW made a tv show about Reylo? Me going binge-watching
YEEESSSS even Titanic was 3 -,hours long lmao
so do I.
If Reylo is in it, that is...
The Reylos will soon be back...and in greater numbers!
Gregory B WELL HERE I AM JEJEJEEE!!!!!
Me too! Another new addition!
Reylo is the best romance in the entire Skywalker Saga. They are everything I daydreamed Anakin and Padme would be for almost 20 years. Great video as always ladies😊⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
MissConduct 1 - Hi MissConduct!!!!! 🐂
Yes, absolutely agree.
I think I read somewhere once that the reason she is crying during the interrogation scene is because he’s bringing up all of her painful memories.
Similarly, Leia didn’t feel Han die through the force, she felt Kylo’s regret. Those are two scenes that I think could’ve been communicated differently, because they’re wildly misinterpreted.
revues de minuit I always thought it was because he was bringing up her painful memories, never because he was physically hurting her. This interrogation scene contrasts sharply with the one with Kylo and Poe, where it is clear Kylo is hurting him as he sifts through his mind. He doesn’t do that with Rey. Also another interesting dynamic between them. Why doesn’t he do the same with her? Because there is something between them! But they don’t know it yet!
We are the Reylo Army..we will not back down..we will not be discouraged...we will triumph with heads held high...in all Reylo Glory...we will be the Captain's of this Unsinkable Ship.....
Yeaaah...I wouldn’t call it unsinkable anymore. 😐
If you’ve seen the Rise of Skywalker, you’ll know what I mean.
I just wanted to say someting to the interrogation scene:
In the novel of TFA, that follows the original script, Kylo behaves a bit different. He removes her restraints because he senses her discomfort for once and says, I quote: "Despite what you may believe, it gives me no pleasure. I will go as easily as possible - but will take what I need." (meaning the map) It's on page 227.
He doesn't want to hurt her at all. I don't know why they went with the more 'brutal' version here. Probably because they didn't want to give away his soft heart and true character that early in the movies for the general audience. He in general is less aggressive and even makes dry jokes with Rey in both novels. It's Adams acting choices that make him more intimidating in the movies than he is in the actual script. But it's necessary to keep his redemption under wraps as long as possible.
It’s crazy how I only watched TFA one time before the TLJ. I remember that after watching TFA I thought “oh man, well they’re into each other, that’s awsome!!” After watching TLJ I went back home and reaserched rey and Kylo because I was sure they’re meant to fall in love, that’s how I found Star Wars connections. I can’t believe I missed two whole years without you ladies!
Just one more thing. In Tarzan, when Tarzan takes Janes glove off and they touch hands, that scene is just like ben and rey in the hut.
They can’t hide it from us, we grew up with Disney movies!
@Thelma that’s a great reference! XD
Wow, I was not sold on Reylo at all but after watching this I am convinced that is where we’re headed in IX. Well done!
Awesome comment @Patrick, welcome aboard!
welcome to the family lol :D
The problem with the Last Jedi haters is that they're looking at this trilogy as a traditional hero vs villian story.
Reylo is the waylo! 👍🏻Great job as always x
The prince's name in Beauty & the Beast is ADAM!!!
After I was introduced to Reylo after TFA, boy I got sucked into romance fanfiction and now I’m addicted to wattpad. Star Wars has ruined me XD. I love it.
Julia Crawford me too)) i watched TLJ in a movie, got home and watched it again, then some clips on youtube, then fanfics )) And i can't stop, i'm too deep into this fandom)
@Julia Crawford me too... so glad to hear it's not only me who is lovesick with this relationship. LOL
Лилия Лапсин Same..... whatever happens in 9, I’m probably going to slip into a coma or something. Maybe I’ll end up with heart palpitations.
I was introduced to star wars a few months ago, totally by chance... I simply clicked a Reylo fanmade vid, not knowing the movie or the characters in it, but I was so intrigued by the video that I went out and searched more of Reylo on youtube.. Since then and I still am obsess with star wars and with Reylo hahaha XD
Can you recommend some works please? A lot of them are pretty mature or explicit, but i just cant them like that yet. For me they're very intense on a spiritual level, deep bond and all, but maybe it's only me :D
Excellent podcast! Keep them coming, as it helps me cope with the long wait for episode 9.
Why does there always have to be that one hater that doesn't believe that Reylo is a thing but they still feel the need to comment and be a jerk? Why are you even watching the video then? If you don't like it then watch something else.
You rock, girls! ❤💙
December 2019 can't come soon enough :p
Opposites attract is such a big part of star wars, definitely! The newer, canon books make this so clear. Lost Stars is about 2 childhood friends on opposite sides of the war (the empire and the rebellion) who still end up in love. Dark Disciple is about asaj Ventress, the sith assassin, and there is a love story between her and a jedi.
People who say that reylo would betray what star wars stands for obviously haven't looked very deep into the franchise.
Lindsey Pyatt, I just re-read Lost Stars, and I was thinking JJ should consult with Claudia Gray when that kiss happens. She is awesome for anticipation and love stuff.
Reylo is so canon.. i can't believe people are still denying the obvious
Also with the interrogation scene as with the first lightsaber duel, he is constantly trying to hurt her as little as possible. You have compared those scenes and shown the different levels of violence Kylo Ren reaches when he confronts Finn and Poe. So, Kylo Ren never used the fullness of his strength until the lightsaber tug-of-war in TLJ when they defeat each other.
Let' also face this too: Rey is not stupid. if Kylo is so evil she would have fled and not confronted him or try to change him. I think both of them had very unrealistic expectations of each other after they defeated the guards. She couldn't just leave the resistance in the drop of a hat and he could not just leave the First Order either.
I get tired of people saying Reylo is abusive when we've seem the opposite happen. People are convinced that he is bad because of Han and they think that he ordered the elimination of all those planets when he didn't. This is not to say that they must agree with Reylo and if they don't like it, then they don't have to watch (bye bye) and yet they do so that they can bitch, moan and complain about it.
People also do not like to see one thing I think JJ is trying to show that is different that the original and that is that people are complicated and not just two dimensional. They also do not like to see that events can take place that alter a person's course and lead them down a dark path that at the time seemed like a good idea and when they realize it and where it will lead, they continue thinking they can't go back. Also the importance of a backstory so that the audience can put things in it's context to understand the character and the situations that led to how they are. JJ also deliberately shows ways out for characters because there are more than one and he also shows incentive for a person to want a way out, but those things can take some time. Too many people want things spelled out for them because they lack imagination.
@Sabastian Palpatine thank you for the laugh I got out of reading this: "It's going to be interesting though to see how you'll respond if/WHEN REY AND FINN END UP HAVING TO KILL KYLO IN SELF DEFENSE or if Rey & Kylo's final battle ends with them killing each other." LMAOOOOO.
I was so upset about Star Wars Connection ending. How would I have kept the Reylo hope alive for 1 1/2 years?? I'm so glad you girls are continuing here!!
Glad you're here too!
It's so surreal listening to this while also considering that first "Reylo 101" video and everything that has happened since then! Your re-evaluation of the directorial choices in the interrogation scene was super interesting too. I hadn't really thought about that post-TLJ yet.
The symbolism Lee mentioned about Rey being a scavenger who sees something in Ben Solo that is "of great value, something that is broken and can be mended, something that is worth hanging on to" was so beautifully put. It's the kind of thing that makes me think endgame Reylo is so perfect and so in line with the themes of the ST that I can't even imagine it not becoming mutually, happily canon.
P.S. I'm excited for the next videos on this topic, but I'm also hype for the Monty episode. I'm always down for song recs!
I love it, thanks for the wonderful video discussion! I have notifications on so I'll be fast clicking to check out part 2 as well. I'm living for this stuff in our long painful wait for EpIX. I can't wait for set spoiler pics, I'm praying for some juicy legit photo leaks. I've never been this obsessed, it has been a surprise to me, like what even happened... *Adam Driver happened* with his rivoting, captivating performance as Kylo/Ben.
I call Her my Tear totally agree!
I love that analogy of Rey seeing Kylo/Ben as a diamond in the rough and seeing that inside he is actually someone of great value and someone who just needs someone to love him back to the light.
Wow! That point she made about the metaphor of Rey being a Scavenger, finding the value in what is broken...... DAMN! I feel straight up stupid for not having noticed this before!
I'm so sad that you girls will no longer be making any content for this channel, but I do understand why you decided to stop. I just wanted to thank all of you for everything you have created these past few years. Your videos on reylo, literature and mythology were eye-opening and interesting. I've learned so much from you and always felt like this was a safe space to enjoy this part of the star wars fandom. Your videos have meant more to me than you will ever know. I want to thank you for everything and wish you all a healthy and happy 2021. May the force be with you, always! 💜🌌
Another great discussion. I am amazed that people are still questioning the Ben/Rey love connection. It seems so obvious to so many of us.#savebensolo #reyloforever
Great job, girls! As always, your exegesis is both on point and entertaining. bravo! March on the Reylo Army!
And people still think we'll get ReySky or even ReySolo.
Well, I can't wait for Episode IX to see their faces when we'll get a Reylo kiss.
Well, we may get ReySolo yet... ;)
Abbey Uh Rey marries into the solo fam ^^
Jessalyn Clarissa - Exactly ;)
Thanks so much for this video! It should be obvious by now but hey....Some people still need everything to be pointed out in order to get it. You guys nailed it. I cannot wait for Episode IX! It's going to be epic! #reyloisendgame #reyloiscanon #reylo
At this point anytime there is an anti-Reylo post, people should answer with a ladder emoji (if it exists) cos they need help with reaching.
Green Wren lol love that
Damn
Oh God, I can't unsee the lips thing now. Don't worry it only enhances my experience, so now I'll have something else to smile about when I watch that scene again.
I love Denise and Lee podcast!!!! You guys have the best commentary
As always ladies, it was very interesting, funny and well articulated. You make Reylo seems so obvious ! Keep up the good work !
ive just been nodding the whole time at this video and sipping my tea. well done ladies. I love your podcast and REYLO FOR THE WIN.
Another great podcast! Can’t wait for the next one! Love listening to your evidence for Reylo - bring on Episode IX!
The best companion to my morning coffee ! Also I don't know why I let myself be so bothered by other people not seeing Reylo, but I am - anyone else have that problem haha ?
I'm especially bothered when they tell me Rey will end up with Poe.
@Angie Idol SAME.
Please no.. Hahah I mean I love Poe but just not him with Rey, and not Finn with Rey either.. The chemistry between Rey and Kylo is too damn strong, I couldn't see Rey end up with anybody else XD
Anakin became Darth Vader because he fell in love with Padme and was afraid of losing her the way he lost his mother. Kylo Ren becomes Ben Solo because he falls in love with Rey and doesn't want to lose her the way Darth Vader lost Padme.
Always love your podcasts! Thank you for taking the time to produce these, and further solidify the Reylo cause. 👌🏼☺️
What girl?! That line has kept me up at night. Lol
I love your videos!! They bring me so much joy and happiness 😊💜💜💜
OMG... The memes you use in these videos crack me up! Love all the Reylo artwork and LOVE all your videos. #reyloisendgame
I am soooooo looking forward to seeing what music/lyrics you bring out RE Reylo.
Awesome vid. Keep it up, Lee and Denise!
Another great video! I never tire of hearing all the evidence for Reylo! Can’t wait for the next part!
Reylo is my favorite thing in SW since the Vader redemption arc. Really brilliant writing. On a sad note, I've just about had it with all the sexist complaining that's been directed towards this ship and this trilogy. I never realized how much of a bro-flick the OT was taken for, and it's a shame that many of these so-called "true fans" gravitate towards the worst aspects of it.
The OT was not a bro-flick, though, except in some people's creative minds... But yeah, from the way they talk about it, it seems they watched a different trilogy.
LOVE THIS AND LOVE REYLO ofc, and you guys, you are the best! Keep the Reylo strong!
I started screaming when you guys mentioned HP!! Good catch with that Weasley/Potter family dynamic! Pls. use HP more as examples! :D
This podcast is EVERYTHING!!!! I have always loved Lee and Denise's podcast because the fangirling is hilarious and your analysis are awesome!!
Besides, this reminded me why I love reylo and why it is such an interesting ship and how they are a perfect match for each other. I am still trully dissapointed in TLJ but at least we have reylo!!!!!!
Ana I love that you understand my TLJ disappointment lol. Reylo is fab though and I will always appreciate TLJ for showcasing that so well that it allowed Reylos to feel more confident in speaking about it.
The editing with the gifs and memes in these videos are always so spot on! It cracks me up... One of my favorite things about them! :)
That's Lee's outstanding editing! We also love it!
This made my night. Thanks Girls. :)
I once heard a story similar to this. A girl renown for her beauty and smarts, but quite poor and lonely, meets and is held captive by, an evil prince. At first she dislikes the prince, and the prince isn't fond of her either, but is perplexed by her. But as time wears on, they discover a mutual understanding and respect of one another, they find that there is something there that wasn't there before. The story is called Beauty and the Beast :)
Yeah, and children enjoy it!
Oh my goodness. I’m DYING. 😂😂😂😂😂😂 That random gif of Piporro!!!!! You guys just doubled, no tripled, my respect and interest. 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
@SmoulderingPhoenix LOL I use that gif all the time and this is the first time someone identifies it. *high five*
Lee Green My mom listens to his cds and watches his movies. Lol. That’s how I know him. High five back. 🖐🏽🤘🏽😆 Great channel btw. Keep it up.
so great, thanks!
Great point about Rey being a scavenger and being able to discern what has worth and what doesn’t! Never thought of that! 🔥🔥🔥
Makes me so sad we'll never see in IX how Leia's story would have continued / how the story might have gone... R.I.P Carrie 😭
Another great podcast woo!! I totally agree with Lee that the forcebond began during the interrogation
Awesome video but what I always find funny people complaining they don’t want romance in sequel trilogy between Rey and Kylo cause it gonna be like twilight which it not and there was romance in the original and prequel trilogy so idk why people acting like it new 🤨
But the heart and soul of Star Wars is based on the motivations of the characters which are all anchored in love. This has nothing to do with Disney. It's what SW always was about. See Han and Leia. You are okay with that. Why? Why aren't you okay with Rey and Kylo? Why is this suddendly a 'Fanfiction' for you while Han and Leia is not?
Is it because Kylo is not the typical archetype man and has feminine traits and Rey rather should be with a 'real man' like Poe or Finn? Is it because Rey rather should be alone and by herself? But doesn't that defeat the purpose of her character? Her main character trait is the search for belonging. If she stays alone it defeats her main character motivation.
Or what is the reason? Because I don't understand it. If you are okay with romance in the OT and the PT, why is it not okay in the ST? Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.
I feel that most people don't have a problem with romance in general, but rather with the fact that Ben Solo is the one who Rey is interested in.
That last sentence was basically what Sebastian just said. Han and Leia was a fairly natural relationship, and while Han wasn't a model citizen, he never murdered his own family members or intentionally did anything to hurt Leia. Even Anakin had good intentions up until the end, but his relationship with Padme was destined to fail.
"Ben" is just a brat with daddy issues, who trusted a shriveled-up raisin more than the people who loved him most.
Sorry, this is going to be long. But:
As much as I love Leia and Han, they weren't good parents. That is a fact. We know from canon material that Bens parents were mostly absent in his life. They loved him, but they were busy. Leia was busy as a high ranking officer and Han was mostly away because he was restless and couldn't deal with the fact that Ben was a force sensitive kid.
Han never liked the Jedi and the Force.
"Han: Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.
Luke: You don’t believe in the Force, do you?
Han: Kid, I’ve flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I’ve seen a lot of strange stuff, but I’ve never seen anything to make me believe there’s one all-powerful force controlling everything. There’s no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. - ‘A New Hope’"
"They’d been apart too often in their marriage. Too long. Han’s restlessness had been a large part of that, but he couldn’t take all of the blame. Leia had remained stuck here, mired in the political muck. - ‘Bloodline’"
“[…] You had - you have - wonderful qualities, Han, but patience and understanding were never among them. I was afraid that your reactions would only drive him further to the dark side.” -
"Han sighed. There were many days he wished he’d never heard about such things. The Force perplexed him. He would’ve given everything for his son to be ordinary - like him. - ‘The Force Awakens’ Junior Novelization"
So he has this force sensitive kid sitting there and he simply doesn't know what to do with it. And Ben, of course, senses this. Han wary of his force abilities and Leia wary because she was afraid there was too much of Vader inside him. We also know that Snoke found Ben at an early age, starting to manipulating the child when he basically was a toddler. At that point Snoke didn't know that Ben was the grandchild of Vader. No one except Han, Leia and Luke knew. Not even Ben himself. He grew up hearing these stories about the most hated man in the galaxy without knowing it was his grandfather.
Fast forward, Ben is 10 years old and sent (against his will) into Lukes academy. That is a very young age to be sent away and recieved as rejection by him. Rejection of a father who doesn't understand his Force abilities and isn't around much, rejection of a mother who chooses politics and duty over everything else. To be fair, Leia hadn’t had much of a choice. Ben was born in what was the possible worst time for his parents.
Luke would most likely have been aware of Snoke’s growing influence on Ben; either through sensing it himself or because Leia told him about it, while Leia had always known, which is why she sent him away in the first place. It was for his own good, and because she felt like she could no longer be what he needed as far as protection and teaching was concerned.
“[…] I was hoping that I was wrong, that it wasn’t true. I hoped I could sway him, turn him away from the dark side, without having to involve you. […] I thought I could shield him from Snoke’s influence and you from what was happening.”
[…] “So Snoke was watching our son.”
“Always,” she told him. “From the shadows, in the beginning, even before I realized what was happening, he was manipulating everything, pulling our son toward the dark side.” - Leia and Han, ‘The Force Awakens’ Adult Novelization
Ben spends 13 years in Lukes academy. 13 years without seeing his parents often. All this time Snokes manipulations further polluted his head and he started to believe that 'something was wrong' with him.
Then suddenly a massive bombshell is dropped into the galaxy. During a Senatorial meeting it comes out that Darth Vader is Lukes and Leias father. The most hated man in the galaxy isthe father of the most famous and respected twins in the galaxy.
"She could lie. She could get to her feet, angrily denounce the music box as a forgery, and walk out of the Senate with her head high. No biological samples marked either Anakin Skywalker or Lord Vader had ever turned up in the Imperial registries; no doubt Palpatine had made sure none could ever be collected, lest his dangerous apprentice be cloned. So nobody would ever be able to prove beyond any doubt that Leia was Vader’s daughter.
But the doubt would linger. The whispers would follow her for the rest of her days. No denial could be strong enough to outweigh an accusation so sensational and so damning - particularly when it was correct. She could fall now, as if at the stroke of an ax, or endure being diminished but by cut, rumor by rumor, year by year. - ‘Bloodline’"
Leia chose to acknowledge the truth of the accusation, and the immediate fall out from this revelation is swift and brutal.
(This is too much to quote but let's say people aren't pleased about it. It's a political scandal and the entire galaxy and billions of people are aware)
So the political fallout after this was bad, but the personal one was much worse, because Ben had no idea his grandfather was Vader. No one had ever told him.
No one had sat him down and discussed the fact that, while his grandfather was the most hated man in the galaxy, love for his son had redeemed him in the end. No one had thought that maybe withholding that information would have been far more damaging to a young man who was already feeling abandoned and rejected than just sitting down and telling him the truth. Now he learns, most likely through media and in a public location with the rest of Luke’s students, that his grandfather is the Boogieman mother’s warn their children about? That his family was keeping secrets from him?
"“I hadn’t even told my son. Now he has to find out in the most horrible, public way imaginable, all because of you.” Leia’s hands were clenched in fists at her sides. “[…] Even if you still felt you had to shout it out to the entire galaxy, you could have talked to me privately first. Given me a chance to speak with my son. Not even out of friendship - just out of common decency. But I guess you didn’t think I even deserved that.”
“You had your chances to speak to your son,” Ransolm insisted. “He’s not a child anymore, is he? You could have told him at any point before this. Do you think you’d ever have had the courage to tell the truth?”
“What I kept from Ben, I did for his own good - or what I hoped was his own good. Now we’ll never know. […]” - ‘Bloodline’"
So with all this scandal going on, who else finds out that Vader is Bens grandfather? Snoke!
At this point everything starts to fall apart, because Snoke now uses this knowledge against Ben, weakens his already thin bond with his parents further. At the same time, Luke feared his growing strenght.
Ben wakes up to find his uncle looming over him with a lit lightsaber, and reacts out of sheer terror and self-preservation. This is the man that he’s trained with, looked up to, and learned from for potentially 13 years standing in his sleeping quarters holding an activated, deadly weapon. We know that It was just a passing moment for Luke and he hadn’t killed him. But Ben didn’t. From his perspective his parents, and now also Luke rejected him. That’s why the last scene with Luke and his confrontation with Ben was so, so incredible important.
This is the final straw that plays Ben literally into Snokes waiting arms. When everyone thinks you are monster then you start to believe it yourself. That's what Ben did in the end and how he created his Kylo Ren persona.
Luke withdrew to Acho-to and cut himself off from the Force. Han went back to smuggling and Leia had the reistance to built. No one tried to look after Ben until TFA. That is 6 years after the night he burned down the temple. 6 years of being in the actual hands of an emotional abuser 24/7.
So, in a way, he was speaking about himself, too, when he told Rey her parents had “tossed her away like garbage”. That was how he felt, thrown out like he meant nothing to his family, and the only fall back support that he truly had was a dark, evil, malicious predator that had been working on him his entire life. Ben held out against the Dark Side for 23 years, despite manipulations and insecurities. 23 years of a family burden he never wanted. At some point it simply was too much to take.
I don't excuse his actions, I don't excuse him killing Han. But all of this, makes his anger and sadness (it's not hate, it's sadness) against his parents and his legacy at least understandable and he had all the reasons to lash out because of it. He choses to kill Han, after Snoke tried to talk him into it for YEARS, in a last desperate act of getting rid of the conflict in him. But it actually has the opposite effect and his conflict peaks. "You have to much of your fathers heart in you, young Solo." It breaks him down to the bone and this is were we are currently. This is not simply put aside with 'daddy iusses'. It's the whole messed up family of Skywalkers that caused this to happen!
(English is not my mother tongue so I lend some of this from this source since it's much better worded than what I could have done: enjoyallneednothing-blog.tumblr.com/post/172122116140/ben-solo-musings
I'm sorry, but that's not good enough, especially when like 90% of this information is never even alluded to in the films. A huge part of Ben's problems come from Lucasfilm's bizarre obsession with making the original characters a bunch of old, depressed failures who ruined everything. And I can't feel sympathy for a 30-year-old who can't understand his parents had responsibilities to an entire galaxy, nor can I equate his perceived feelings of abandonment to that of a girl who was literally abandoned in a desert with no one at all to care for her for 15 years.
And all of this hinges on Snoke's inconsistent ability to read/manipulate minds across the galaxy, apparently limited ONLY to Kylo as he popped out of nowhere to screw with his head at some undefined point in this wacky timeline of events. IMO Kylo is a terrible character that Lucasfilm is trying to bend over backwards justifying his actions.
Christina Kraus
Great breakdown. Others do quick to dismiss Kylo Ren turn to the dark side but I that sound more compelling than Anakin’s one reason.
I bet these are the same fans that hated the prequels. How dare they take their simple one dimensional bad Vader and give him depth. By adding layers such as love and fear of lost.
AHAHAHA that George Takei moment when you talked about "him pushing her there" was perfect I can't
My fellow Reylo fangirls, so this! Well played 🥂 Sharing with my subscribers on my Reylo tumblr. Have a great week.
So who else teared up while watching the new The Clone Wars trailer?
I remember walking out of TLJ in 2017 with two male friends and one of them saying "Well, I think they're siblings." The other one agreed. I thought I was having a stroke and went like, "But what about that hand touching scene? What about that elevator scene? What about that Ben Swolo scene? What about that sweaty fight in Snoke's throne room? What about...?" I was so shocked in that moment because they both know a lot about film and theater and I simply could not believe what i had just heard. I had been a Reylo ever since seeing TFA for the first time. To me it had always been soooo obvious right from that interrogation scene.
Ever since that night in front of the cinema, I have convinced one of these friends to believe in Reylo (sort of), the other one now thinks they're cousins. Oh well.
OMG, they watched TLJ and came to the conclusion that Rey and Kylo are siblings??? That's so funny.
Awesome stuff!
I’ve noticed that people I talk to who could not see the reylo in TFA tend to be people who are not cognizant of sexuality in general or even their own sexuality, or just not sexually aware of things that aren’t overtly sexual. This isn’t a diss. I’m not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings. But I mean- my eyeballs were bugging and my heart rate sped up all through all of the Rey and Kylo scenes. He does all the stuff to get her trapped on his ship and then when she escapes/ he magically makes it to the forest to prevent her from leaving - cause he wants her that bad. It was all very clear to me- and I couldn’t believe everyone didn’t see it. It’s so obvious. But truly - my mom and my husband - who I love - neither of them are very open in terms of talking about sex or being sexually minded - I don’t know how to explain it. (Yes I have a functioning sex life w my modest husband, don’t worry, it’s great). But he truly couldn’t see that the interrogation had sexual undertones. And my mom couldn’t not process that the TLJ hand touch scene in front of a warm glowing fire was a metaphor for physical connection ie, sex. I can’t wait to see how jj plays this out. He started it- he better ‘finish’ it.
Love the new podcast ladies! Listened to you gals on Star Wars Connection. Reylo is the most obvious end result of this whole trilogy and I think you do a great job of presenting the abundance of evidence that supports it. I like to think that Reylo will be the reverse Anidala.
Hey hey new podcast ooooh. ^^
Love the video!
Curious about your guesses for marketing/advertising for Episode 9. :D I know if you address this, it won't be until Part 3 of this series. :P :D Love Lords of the Sith! :D \m/
I have a confession to make.... I hated Kylo in tfa. I hated his selfishness, entitlement and that he murdered han. And I was offended that people would ship him with beautiful strong amazing Rey. Well... one movie later I‘m a full on reylo stan and I’m never going back lol 💏💑👫👫👫
What do you guys think about the rumors about them having a child early in 9? I don’t know why but I really don’t like that idea... I don’t want there to be a child until the end of the movie.. It doesn’t feel right to me. I can’t really explain it I just hope it’s not going to happen that way. I just want Rey to be a real badass that is Kylos equal and Kylo to be redeemed. I really want to see their relationship develop further and Rey to keep growing before any kid comes into the picture.
Oh yeah and obviously your podcast is my favorite. You girls are effin amazing and I love hearing your thoughts. You bring out the reylo-est in me!
Moni Pampeloni, loved this comment. I was so heartbroken by Kylo's actions in TFA...I literally hated him, and never noticed Reylo until TLJ, and then rewatched TFA, and was like amazed, it was there the whole time! Rian Johnson made me root for this character and want his redemption and want Rey to (eventually) take his hand...not after "you're nothing"....he needs to have a do-over. JJ started ot but Rian made me want Reylo!
@Moni, @Jennifer awesome conversation here. I’ve loved Kylo Ren from the moment I saw him doing his fancy lightsaber twirls in the TFA trailer, even before the movie came out. Still, I was angry at him, and still am, for his murder of Han and I think he needs to answer for it and admit his guilt and remorse, which obviously is there. I am glad that you guys have come along to Reylo - one of the things I most love about it is the complexity of the dynamics between them. The fact that Ben Solo and Rey are far from perfect makes it even better for me!
@Moni, we discussed the Reylo Force baby possibility in our first video; check it out!
@Jennifer Yay glad I’m not the only one that feels that way 🤗And I’m even more glad we both found our way into reylo-land. I never wanna leave.
@Lee I will 🤗
Moni Pampeloni, I'm here to stay. 😍
@@jenniferoliver8334 He wasn't telling her he thinks she is nothing but that, in the eyes of many, in her own eyes ("I'm just a scavenger" she tells Han), she's nothing. But not to him. It's the Pride and Prejudice proposal.
I hear Denise's voice and I get so happy!
I agree with most of this. I confess I was blinded to Reylo in TFA because Kylo kills Han. I screamed at the screen and vowed not to watch the next episodes. But then I must have had something in the back of my head, because I started looking for stuff on Kylo and Rey. I'd read how Harrison wanted Han to die all the way back in the originals and started to forgive JJ. And when that happened, I thought about the movie and Kylo's character and put two and two together, or one and one, or half and half, since they are two halves of the protagonist. I just love that he's that broken thing she can help. Beautiful. Brilliant. I'm so flabbergasted at those who continue to remain blind.
Hi there, such a nice podcast as always.
Well, when we go back to interrogation scene - I never thought Rey's crying because Ben causes her pain. The tears are rolling down her cheeks because her enemy (at that time) gets to know all her secrets and deepest fears, things she would like to keep for herself. It's not a physical pain - rather emotional cry as she is trying to lock her memories and he enters her mind anyway.
As for the rest - I totally agree. JJ Abrams created 'Reylo' and Rian Johnson intensified it. If someone thinks Rey will end up with Finn or Poe - then... well, this is not how the storytelling works :)
Thanks for your reply, Denise :)Yeah, she's a woman and this adds to peoples' negativity towards Kylo/Ben. Not that when she entered his mind nobody protested. Or when she chopped his face,neck and collarbone with the lightsaber people also didn't feel sorry for him whereas when Kylo threw Rey against the tree, they started shouting "He wanted to murder her!". I suppose if they changed places people would be neutral about it. To be honest I also don't get why so many people read out Rey as the victim. She's not, she knows her worth, she's aware of her powers and how to take care of herself, how to denfend herself and in fact it seems she isn't really scared of him I think - at least not to the extend of other people including stormtroopers or lieutenants/commanders of the FO subjected to him,Snoke and Hux.
Just found Star Wars Connection a week ago. Love your discussions!
No way, Kylo is a space Hitler! I'm just kidding, but still it's kinda depressing when people fail to perceive some more interesting characters other than one dimensionally. At the beginning I didn't catch Reylo, but as soon as Kylo Ren performed his famous 'bridal carry' on Rey I was like "WTF is the guy doing? Why is he taking her with him if he only needs the droid?" Then he interrogated her and this time he was completely different with her than he was with Poe. The fact that Rey was crying was imo caused by the fact that Kylo got to know her deepest secrets and fears (on the surface she tried to be tough and merry-go-round, but she's really fragile and broken inside). Anyway, I agree with all your points and we'll be drinking champagne after episode IX comes out :)
let me get the popcorn
great video! I know i may be just a little too hopeful but i just have a feeling that they will have their happy ending.and yea it bothers me that so many reylos actuallybare "sure" that ben will die.
The romance is very probable, the happy ending not so much.
Great job! As always! :)
Loved this. Rehash away! I can listen to you guys talk about Reylo forever 😍 As far as Ep IX being the end of the Skywalker saga... I had read a quote from JJ stating that he saw it as such and it would be wrapped up in a meaningful way that tied the three trilogies together. Doesn’t mean that can’t change, and in 10 years it will be Lucasfilm’s call whether or not to revive the saga, not JJ’s.
Thanks! On JJ quotes, there are two parts. First, he says that this movie will tie the 3 trilogies. I believe it means that we'll see more prequel references. In no way does it mean that IX is the last movie. He also says that, FOR HIM, ix is the conclusion of the Skywalker saga,, he says "I do see it that way", but that the future is in flux. This "future in flux" already means that IX is not necessarily the end of the Skywalker saga. If he says that the saga continues, he'll drop a major spoiler. Even then, he's not saying that it necessarily ends.
Maybe he's thinking of it that way so that Ep IX will have a final feel to it, in case it should be the last. But yeah, 8-10 years later, Disney will absolutely ask themselves whether or not they have more Skywalker saga stories to tell, and whether or not people will want them :)
I love the Potter and Rey connection! XD Also I think it would be amazing if Qi'ra is Rey's mother -- then Qi'ra would symbolically get back with Han through her daughter being with Han's son.
With regard to scene discussion at 33:09, Tumblr user reyloiscanon17 pointed out something in the dialogue where Kylo is reaching out and asks "what girl?" and the scene cuts to Rey almost replying in the eyes of who is watching the movie. She reaches out, visually implying toward Kylo, and "answers" with "it's the motivator!" The scene almost directly tells us Rey will be Kylo's motivator. And I think that's just beautiful. 🤧
Two force users with abandonment issues. They are bound to connect.
Definitely! Our new podcast series "Psychology of the Characterization" is actually based on that premise; would add Finn in there as well. ^^
Reylo for life. The chemistry is so intense.
I loved this thank you for blessing us 🙏🙌
yay!! 🖤
this video was amazing, reylo is truly a work of art, so well thought out from the beginning
This aged like fine wine, delicious
Very well said! I for one am a fan of Reylo and also think it's the end game. All of the haters are like, "how could she end up with someone like that who kills people including his own father!" In case people forget that in real life the girls almost always go for the bad guy. I've witnessed it time and time again. Vader got his redemption by Luke in ROTJ so why can't Kylo have his redemption through Rey in episode 9? He can and most likely will.
I never shipped harry and ginny either. It just felt off.
This video aged like a fine wine 🍷
It's still endgame only my heart is 10x more broken but at least we got the kiss
Yessss REYLO!!!! 😍
Kylo reminds me of Fabio on a romantic novel cover
Lol!
i was this closeted baby reylo from 2015-17. all of the hades/persephone parallels were my shit and when tlj dropped, you bet i came right out of thet fucking closet lmao. im so excited to see my beautiful babes mend each other in ix :)
edit:
there's also so so much sexual symbolism in the forecebond/throne room scene(s) in tlj. it's so apparent and beautiful and ugh. at this point, if rey and ben have some kind of forbidden love in ix via forcebond, we should expect to see at least representation/hints that theyre sleeping together if not a sexually intimate scene.
Yay for closet Reylos coming out after TLJ! XD
We need to talk more about Hades/Persephone - bridal carry FTW
Honestly when Force Awakens came out I had just turned 12 and I was so uncomfortable it the interrogation scene....I was super sheltered and at that point I honestly thought my parents wouldn’t want me watching it haha.
a new subscriber!! holy shit this was really good :)
Idk I want him to stay in the dark side so that they could be balanced but I still want them together...
You girls were right. I wish Ben would have lived to make Solo-Skywalker-Palpatine babies with Rey. lol
(Assuming Palpatine wasn't lying about Rey being her granddaughter. He seemed pretty ambivalent about his intentions, did he want her dead? Did he want her alive? Did he want to kill her or did he want her to kill him?? It was pretty confusing... I rather believe she is Kenobi and not Palpatine, but I really liked the idea of Rey from nowhere the best. It made more sense, considering she grew up in such a hostile place, why would her parents leave her suffering to "protect" her? Her parents could have left her with a caring person. It was done with Luke and Leia. That retcon made no sense. Btw I totally noticed Reylo from TFA but I didn't dare to ship it back then (bc all te hate the ship was getting) and I didn't think it would happen. It was TLJ that made me believe it really could happen.
Before Reylo can happen in 9, Ben needs to get on his knee and apologize to Rey for being an unmitigated ass on Crait and for his insulting proposal to her in Snoke’s throne room.
Have you heard some of the theories from The Den Of Nerd? I swear, he seems like a nice kid, but much of his theorizing is weird and so stupid and then the next week he alters them. It's weird.
But one thing that has always stuck with me and no one seems to have mentioned it and possibly it seems obvious, but I've wondered about it and please, your thoughts on this if you can.
When Kylo kills Han, we go to Leia while she feels that something has happened and it was Han dying. But, what I am wondering about is if instead of feeling Han's death, she is feeling Kylo's feelings about what he just did. Obviously she would know that Han was dying but Han has never been Force sensitive so why would she feel his feelings. Yes, there would be a disturbance in the Force, however, I think, IMO, that she is picking up on Kylo's feelings because from both novelizations and TFA, we literally SEE that Kylo is very effected by what he just did as if he was in a weird state of shock because he did love his father deeply though he was angry at him and his mom. I think that Leia felt Kylo's feelings and the effect it had on him. There has been enough evidence or at the very least some speculation that part of him wanted to go back with Han and the other part of him killed Han because he thought that would be the one thing that would make him truly dark and it didn't.
We ever see and hear that it didn't from Snoke when he told Kylo that killing his dad made him more of a wreck than it made him stronger with the dark side. Even at the end Luke tells him that his father is with him and I think it's very obvious.
Kylo or Ben felt very betrayed by his own family and if Snoke had been whispering to him all his life then what Luke thought about doing confirmed everything Snoke had told him about others being afraid of his power. It also says in the adult novelization that as a child things would get broken or damaged because as a child/kid he wouldn't know how to control it, all he knew was that his parents talked about it further alienating him from other people.
Now we have Rey who is VERY Force sensitive and what does Kylo/Ben tell her? That Luke will be afraid of her power and will turn against her. That does not happen, but she does sense Luke's fear and does get mad at him when she finds out the real truth of what he did. It seems that so many never mention that, what Luke almost did to Ben. They just brush over it instead of understanding why and how it happened that Kylo/Ben turned to Snoke.
As far as the "villain," I think you can have more than one and there are degrees. Kylo/Ben does not have the bloodlust the way some people think he does. Yes, he has killed people however it's very personal and directed at whomever it is. If he was this evil villain that people think he is, then why did he not kill Rey or Finn when he had the chance? He could have killed Poe too but didn't and even that was personal and not just for wanting to know where Luke is, but possibly because he believes that his mom displaced him as her son with Poe but did not kill him and the "torture" that we saw was not from him, it even says it in the novelization that he thinks it is such a waste when Hux destroyed an entire system. I think we were meant to see Kylo watching from another ship with his mask on so that we wouldn't see his emotions, and because it would not have been so disarming when he reveals himself to Rey.
My niece is 8 yr old. She’s a big big Reylo fan, which has turned her into a real Star Wars fan-watching every sequel movie again & again, reading junior novelizations, watching reylo music videos on RUclips. It’s not that difficult to catch what’s going on & ship the two!
That's cute!
Great job, girls - as usual :)
Awesome video!
Love the show, keep up the great work! xoxo
Thanks!
Who was in the theatre and really had to pee, but didn’t want to miss any scenes