Ben Solo: Why fans love him
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- Ben Solo is the most popular character in the Sequel Trilogy.
Mary, Lee, and Denise discuss the reasons for that, and analyze Ben Solo's journey, from his introduction as masked Kylo Ren, to his redemption, or bendemption, in Episode IX, including his background in comics such as The Rise of Kylo Ren.
Of course a character with elements from Star Wars' two most popular male characters, Darth Vader and Han Solo, would be popular. But there are also elements in his story and plot that make people identify with him.
We look at the complexity in Kylo Ren / Ben Solo's character, and also his relationships with Han Solo, Leia, and Luke. We delve into his relationship with Rey and what Reylo and his romantic interest mean in his arc. We also look at what could have been and missed opportunities with Poe and Finn.
Finally, we explain why fans are asking: Save Ben Solo, or bring Ben Solo Back alive, what undoing his unsatisfying death in Episode IX would mean for Star Wars. Whispers: redemption
#welovebensolo #savebensolo #bringbensolobackalive #reylo
SPEAKERS: Lee, Mary, and Denise
AUDIO EDITING: Lee
VIDEO EDITING: Mary
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....and the fact that he looks like Adam Driver....
They cast Adam Driver, knowing well how talented he is, and what he looks like. So it was on purpose.
Adam Driver is sooooooooooooooo amazing as Ben Solo/Kylo Ren.
If there's going to be more new Star Wars films someday, I am hoping that Adam Driver could reprise his role as Ben Solo. #StarWars #SaveBenSolo #BringBenSoloBack #reylo #AdamDriver #DaisyRidley #RestoretheDyad #bensolodeservesbetter #bensololives #bensolo #rey
Three words: understanding, gentle and tall🤣
Ben is understanding, gentle, tall (6ft 3inches), quiet and still, contemplative, conviction-driven, princely, experienced, knowledgable, loveable...a lovely child! If I had a Son, I would want Ben Solo and if the darkness of this world got my Son, I will not ever walk away but I will chase my child until I get him back...
He is the only relatable character. He won our heart when he was at his worst and his best. 💞
The first and only fictional character death I've ever cried over.
First and only time I've cried over a movie, and in the theater at that.
Edit: Wait, I have one that once before. It was Artaxs' death in Never Ending Story. That part still hurts to watch.
TL me too +tony stark lol
I cried when Ben died because I didn’t expect this for the child whose story arc was filled with so much hurt, parental neglect, mental health challenges and emotions! I wish that more care could have been given to Ben Skywalker Solo’s character, his lineage and give repair to what was injurious to his personality development...I cried when Iron Man died but my heart grieved when tall, quiet, still, contemplative, emotive and pensive Ben died... I had hoped that he was given the story arc to become a Dad, a Parent with Rey of an offspring because he would have been the Dad that he didn’t have...probably would have been the storyline for another trilogy, giving us fans the evidence of how Skywalker will rise...
Ben Solo deserved better than what we got. I don't think I'll ever get over his death. Hopefully they bring him back the novelization hinted at this possibility. #bensolodeservedbetter #welovebensolo
I remember being so happy when they kissed I actually cheered and s moment later started stammering s horrified no...no...No...!!!!
I adore Bucky Barnes/Winter Soldier and have a huge collection of all his various items. Ben Solo/Kylo Renn reminds me slot of Bucky. I wanted to know more about his childhood/his backstory. That is why I roleplay...
I feel that the only way they can fix the myth is to bring him back.
There are no words to describe how much I love Ben Solo. Anakin is my favorite character of all time and I never thought I could love another character as much as I love Anakin. For me to know Anakin and Padme's only Grandson ends so tragic like this... I'm heartbroken and just hoping at some time in my life they bring him back. Thanks girls for all you do. 💗
What an insult to the sacred lineage of Anakin and Padme! The Executives at Disney didn’t consider these precious nuances, that much more care should have been given to the last, living Skywalker and the only grandson of Anakin and Padme, who was born a Prince, born to lead...
For me he feels more human than all star wars characters. Because he can be angry,he can make mistakes and try to fix problems,be not sure which makes me relate to him. Also great podcast.
That's true, he has lots of emotions.
YESSS
We like him because he, unlike any of the other characters who relied on plot armour or who are rewarded for their relatively little effort, achieved so much with no help at all. He achieved being the head of his organization, he was chased out of the Jedi and doubted and reviled and misunderstood, and he gave Rey her life back with help from NO ONE and NO JEDI WHISPERING IN HIS EAR but equipped only with the knowledge that he would be giving up his own life for hers. No other ST character achieved so much with his/her own blood, sweat and tears nor gave so much to anyone or anything. So yeah, even if you dont know why you like him, you probably love him because he gave so damn much with so little in return.
He didn't achieve anything though.
His arc was merely a thoughtless, low effort rehash of Vader, with minimal, cosmetic differences.
Even his coming to Exegol, where he cemented himself as an incompetent loser forever, made things worse instead of better, with him having zero meaningful influence on the outcome of the "plot".
He is quickly forgotten in and out of universe because they turned him from an intriguing character with unlimited potential starting to go his own way into a flat, completely derivative and forgettable one.
Great job, JJ and Chris Terrio!!!!!
The simple answer....he is basically a reverse Anakin but played by an above average actor.
But seriously though, another great podcast ladies, keep climbing to even greater heights.
Thanks!
While I’m disappointed with Ben’s death I was kinda expecting it because Lucasfilm is not creative and they just copy the OT. What made me really mad was the fact that Ben’s death wasn’t acknowledged. The only person who knew that Ben turned to the light and gave his life for Rey was Rey herself. I feel it should have been important for the rebels to know that their beloved general did not die in vain. Leia’s son did turn and saved Rey.
“No one acknowledged him after his death.” Even in the TROS novel he is reduced to an afterthought: “And Ben,” Rey REMINDED herself”. She had to REMIND herself of her dyad/soulmate?! WTH
Yeah, it was awful.
Horrible!
Next to my girl Daenerys, Ben Solo deserves better! Loved this, missed you ladies. I have a feeling Disney isn’t finished with Ben Solo, his comics sell out so quickly you know never know. There’s hope!
So funny how pretty much everyone who hated on kylo ren in TFA have basically all switched to saying he’s the only good part in the ST
True, right? I guess they came to understand what the character was about.
#BenSoloLives 🦋💙
Why fans loved him? Because his backstory was *SO* intriguing, captivating....and sad.
Kylo Ren was focused, intense and probably knew more about the Force on BOTH sides of the fence more than Luke. As Ben Solo deep down a lot of people wanted to see him succeed, get back at the ones who manipulated him for DECADES, but most importantly, to just LIVE and be the man his mother wanted him to be.
Also HUGE kudos to Adam Driver who constantly rose to the occasion in TLJ and TROS and made Kylo such a complex character. In hindsight, this trilogy such have leaned towards being about Kylo Ren & his conflicts to his re-emergence as Ben Solo and beyond.
12:11 ...and you're so right in would have been nice to see a conflict between Kylo Ren & Hux come to a head in Ep. 9.....WOULD HAVE BEEN.
15:31 I said this to someone in another video in TLJ instead of Snoke being killed by Kylo, his killed by Palaptine for failure while Kylo escapes with Rey, not necessarily to join the Resistance but be with *her* and by the time we get to TROS he is *slowly* heading on HIS journey to rediscover being Ben Solo.
#BenSoloDeservedBetter
# yep I said it
The first time we glimpse Ben was the first time he took off the mask interrogating Rey. He was cute, fearful and so vulnerable - and kind of week even. Such a contrast to the evil Kylo we had just seen giving the order to kill all the villagers. I think it confuses us and makes us as conflicted as he is. I think that’s the genius of Kylo and Ben while we watch Ben strengthen and grow over the course of the films. We start to root for him and hope that he will find The right path
I think you're right that the dichotomy between evil, confident Kylo in the beginning of TFA, and vulnerable Kylo/Ben towards the end makes the character interesting right away.
This hit me right in the feels.
And you are right. It felt like LF disowned Ben Solo in the movie and they keep doing it.
But that just makes me more angry. Like... he is the heir of that 40 year legacy, why make him the grandson of Padme and Anakin, the son of Leia and Han, Luke's nephew, just to have him literally erased? And why make him be played by and amazing, charming and talented actor? And why make him look so cool and unique? Of course most people were going to like and love him! And when they made us invested in his character, they just disowned him
WHYYYYYYY
Yeah, everyone is wondering why...
LucasFilm did neglect Ben Skywalker Solo! It wasn’t even acknowledged...a Prince, a born leader, tall, quiet and emotive...if Rey was given the story arc where she became pregnant by Ben, during Episode 8 or 9, this would have shown us fans the justification of why Skywalker did rise and this could have been developed further as another trilogy, highlighting Ben’s Light Side in The Force, his children with Rey and how he continued as a Master Jedi, overcoming other dark Sith Lords, etc
Soo I showed my voice teacher a clip with Adam (he didn't know anything about him) and he said "what an interesting voice he has". Damn right!
Super interesting!
I watched ep. 9 with my mom the other day and she was bored throughout the whole thing BUT she loved the kiss. During the "yayy we won" celebration scene, she kept saying that Ben should have lived and married Rey lol By the end credits, she declared that the kiss scene was the best in this whole entire movie. I think my mom is a Reylo now.
Well, it was a great scene! Even the Oscar Academy agrees with your mom.
He has more depth than your average character especially in the sequels, he really feels like someone who has been torn between the light and dark thanks to his amazing portrayal by Adam Driver and is sympathetic in a way where you really feel bad for him, emphasised by how he's treated both in the films and by Lucasfilm. I don't understand why they couldn't handle the characters more respectfully.
Son of Han and Leia, nephew of Luke Skywalker, grandson of Anakin/Vader and Padme and he is named after Ben (Obi Wan) Kenobi. And he has the best line in the sequel trilogy "Let the past die...kill it if you have to". And of course played by Adam Driver...enuff said.
Yes! A Kylo & Chewie scene would have been fantastic! I agree, that was a missed opportunity.
We recorded this before the novel came out. There's a scene in the novelization. I'm not gonna buy it or read it, though. But I guess it's a consolation.
The novel scene is not a consolation. won't ruin it but i guess the only good thing is ben got to know what chewie thought about him.
#BringBenSoloBack
I have to admit that I've deleted my Reylo Tumblr account and hidden away books and stuff from SW shelf in my room. I even get rid of posters and art connected to Reylo and SW in general from my walls. It's just still too heartbreaking - what they did to Kylo/Ben and the whole sequel trilogy... So in order to heal I just pretend that episode 9 doesn't exist 😅 But listening to you, girls, is always a pleasure 💜
I understand... We'll start doing episodes on stuff other than Star Wars, so that we can find other stories and characters to love. Sometimes it's easier to keep a distance.
Watch the Farce Awakens. I THINK They are heading towards a happier story. I blows my mind HOW much this fan animation feel more like canon than canon!
I really agree that the main reason Ben appeals to such a majority of people, or have turned people to his side, is because he really is the most human.
There all such talk about "oh this character is problematic and if you like them then your evil" so on and so forth, but there's so much more than that. We're no longer in a time where characters are one dimensional and we're satisfied with having the good guy win and the bad guy died because there's no such thing as a person being wholly good or wholly bad, at least in Star Wars.
He feels the consequences of his actions, he shows remorse for what he does, he's regretful - he shows this throughout TLJ, and somewhat in TFA. His emotions are laid bare and we can connect to that completely - while every other character is rushing and racing to next location, next plot line, next scene, we stay with Ben and his emotions and can empathise that bit more. While every other character is on a literal journey, Ben's is much more personal. In ROS, we see that with the scene with Han and, for all its bad writing, it was the one good thing this movie gave us. Every other character is moving constantly to the point we can't keep up (read: who decided it was a good idea to let Rey act like That the entire movie lol).
But there's also the fact we have so few male characters in such big movies actually feeling emotions - you get movies like Fast and Furious which is filled with hopped up on testosterone, movies of action heroes who never cry, have a cheesy one liner and never seem to face consequences. With Ben, he cries in TLJ, he cries in ROS, he shows regret and remorse for his actions. Yeah, he a powerful guy and he has a laser sword, but one of the first times we see him in TLJ, we see how deeply he's affected by his father's death and it stays with him constantly, unlike A New Hope where Luke is all "aw, shoot :^(" when Owen and Beru die.
This man just makes me feel so many things; he's been manipulated, abused and abandoned his entire life and yet he still blames himself for it all. He isn't afraid to show emotion, to cry, to realise he messed up, and he really is the most well written character this franchise has ever produced. I feel sorry for Adam, who loved Ben as much as us, and he spent months talking about how he loved Ben's ending and how he was hoping that the fans would be happy with Ben's final lines and everything and then around the same time rumours bout reshoots came out he was all "haha don't know how it ends, guess you'll have to find out." (Even during BTS, he says "at this point i didn't know Ben's ending", proving that they rewrote the ending and reshot it by reusing the scene of where Ben falls and reversing the shot by playing it backwards lol.)
In conclusion, Disney broke ass cowards and JJ should live in fear for the rest of his life bc one day imma steal his knees.
Yes he is the most popular star wars character for quite some time. And why he will be back. Ben is not dead, and he will be back. Being part of a dyad, both dead or both alive, no either nor.
A dyad has the power to restore life!
I love kylo/ ben because
1) he is cute (because adam plays him)
2) he made the biggest change over the sequel trilogy
Like how he went from kinda conflicted to at the end 100% focused on who he is and what he needs to do
3) because he is so appealing in many ways
Completely agree with Mary. I'm no longer giving my money to Disney for anything Star Wars related. TROS also screwed me mentally so bad that I won't be able to revisit star wars at all for a very long time. My heart has been irreparably broken.
Oh, no. Try to find new stories to fill the gap. I know it's a gap that's hard to be filled. For many of us, we were longtime fans, and it's really hard to turn our backs to Star Wars...
Thanks for keeping the conversation going guys. Never get tired of hearing you three talk about Kylo/Ben. Such a fantastic character (in need of a way better ending!)
Yes! He needs to complete his arc.
I think another thing that annoys people about Ben Solo death is that we found out of this dyad, this power like life itself, and we can barely see the potential of that power. What they could have achieved, Ben and Rey, together?
They didn't even explain how Kylo/Ben found out about the dyad in the first place.
So, the key word here is POTENTIAL. Lost potential, wasted potential.
Ben and Rey had so much potential alive and well rather that being separated.
Yes, there was so much potential, so much that was just a matter of letting the story flow... It's a pity.
Watched Wonder Woman the other day and at the end Diana is talking about how the light and dark live in all of us, but love can conquer all, etc...Basically, Patty Jenkins should have directed TROS.
Yes! That movie is so beautiful. I love the part when she says "It's not about deserve". That's a good message for everyone thinking Kylo/Ben didn't "deserve" to live.
My lovely Sith Lords! We sure love a roll out baby Ben flying the Falcon. Amazing how anything with his face on it gets a bazillion clicks!
Hi, Mary, Lee and Denise! So nice to see you back! Though the Sequel Trilogy as a whole worked out so poorly for me that I dropped out after The Last Jedi, I do agree that Adam Driver did a very good job playing Kylo Ren. My take on the character is that he - unlike Darth Vader - seems basically unaffected by the Dark Side. I agree with your assessment that psychological influence and a fateful event or two drove Ben Solo to where he ended up. At no point, at least throughout the first two movies that I watched, did I sense that Kylo Ren was infused with the Dark Side. He just wanted to get there, quite desperately. You don't expect him to say anything like what Vader told Luke in The Return of the Jedi. "You don't know the power of the Dark Side. I MUST obey my master."
The psychological influence hypothesis seems to line up with how we see Kylo Ren act. Does he express any ambition beyond killing the individuals who wronged him, or hold him back from going Dark? That's why what we learn about his background works better, to my mind, than what we learned about Darth Vader's. The Dark Lord we get to know, just a little, in the Original Trilogy is a brooding and evil but still majestic conqueror - a worthy warlord to carry out the will of the Emperor. While we don't learn much, we do get a sense that he has ambition beyond the personal; that he wishes to bring order to the galaxy. This is such a long way off from the mommy's boy and cringeworthy teenager we meet in the Prequels that I (and I'm really expressing a personal view here) cannnot reconcile the two. Sure, people can change, especially if the Dark Side gets involved, but come on - that was supposed to be Vader's origin story!
In conclusion, I'd maintain that while Vader is the better villain than Kylo Ren they're also so different that it's not really neccessary to compare them that way. I also think Ben Solo is a more natural precursor to Kylo Ren than Anakin Skywalker was to Darth Vader. Your thoughts?
It's true that he wasn't consumed by the dark side, he didn't even "fall" to the dark side, he was pulled there, and had to struggle to keep a dark side front, because it wasn't who he was. Good points.
Cos he's friggin badass!
I'm definitely avoiding buying or watching anything Star Wars now. They messed up badly and not addressing this publicly made it so much worse.
I know. Lots of people are also avoiding and SW isn't even selling merch. They screwed up badly.
Best character is definitely Ben Solo! Great discussion, agreed with everything you said! Bob Igor is now on his way out of Disney. Kathleen Kennedy need to be next. Only bright spot in Star Wars for me right now is The Mandalorian!
I mean... If i messed up so many great characters and gave them a horrible ending and completed a nine film saga like Lucas film did, i would try to avoid acknowledging it too
A part of me does wonder what Dave Filoni would do if he ever had Ben Solo to play around with. As far as I recall, the only time he's ever had the character in his hands was with Star Wars Resistance, but that was just for a quick cameo. Dave's a great storyteller. What he did with Anakin in The Clone Wars made him my favorite character before Ben came along, so I wonder what he could do with a character that is already so beloved. If it's possible to make Ben even more loved than he was before, then I think Dave is the one to do it. Or if that can't be done, just let Rian Johnson make a Ben Solo trilogy.
That's true. And why I'm fine with the idea of Ben Solo in a cartoon.
I love this school of thought, that Rian Johnson should be chosen to do a ‘Ben Skywalker Solo’ trilogy!!! However, Lords of the Sith, I must disagree with having a Ben Solo animation! That has to be said.. There was so much potential for Rian Johnson to initiate a more intimate scene for Ben and Rey, from the moment they touched, in the hut, where Rey was going to become pregnant and this event happening at the same time as Palpatine returning would trigger a knitting together of Ben’s personality, where he would return to Light and fight for his Dyad Love 💕 and child... I wished that TLJ, in which I think Rian made a good attempt at showing us the Reylo intimacy, however, he didn’t go far enough into creating a dilemma for the most remarkable of couples that I have ever met, in a movie, probably since Gary Oldman, who played Dracula, in ‘Love Never Dies’ loved and died for Meena, played by Winona Ryder...I love love 💓 stories, in movies...obviously!
Has nobody thought of this (my thoughts): ever since Ben solo was redeemed I felt like he was mixed with Anakin and Han Solo 😂😭😂
To me, in my opinion, Ben Solo deserves to be alive, because he really deserves a second chance. Plus, Ben Solo really cares for Rey, he wants to be with her. They both deserve a nicer & brighter future together, they both deserve to be together, they do make a wonderful couple. #StarWars #SaveBenSolo #BringBenSoloBack #reylo #AdamDriver #DaisyRidley #RestoretheDyad #bensolodeservesbetter #bensololives #bensolo #rey
i don't know what to say...I'm still heartbroken. I just want to think this is not the end of Ben Solo. Thanks guys for your episode. I've been wondering when we would hear from you again.
We have some episodes coming up. And yes, I think we'll have good news about Ben Solo. I just don't know when.
Lovely!
Great video guys! Ben Solo is my favourite Star Wars character and I will always be upset about how they treated him. You guys should do another comparison of Zuko and Ben's redemption arc! Now that the sequel trilogy is concluded, you guys should talk about "Redemption arcs can work without the character dying"
That's a good suggestion, especially because a lot of people think Kylo wouldn't be forgiven because he was bad at the end of Episode 8, but that's exactly what happened to Zuko...
I just can't accept his death it's way too tragic
My brother watched TROS a couple of days ago for the first time and he really disliked it. (Especially bc of the Hux Spy BS and how they treated him)
He made the argument that they built up Hux to be this intimidated character and then it leads to nothing.
When it comes to Ben, he never was a Reylo or even cared for Ben but even he loved his redemption and the kiss at the end.
He's like," Ben is finally good and has such a beautiful moment with Rey and for what? For one minute? What is this movie?"
Besides that like you said TROS has some awesome moments like the Han & Ben scene, the Reylo moments (I even like the masked Kylo scenes with Rey bc he was so thirsty and it was kinda funny), Ben fighting with the legacy lightsaber and making the Solo shrug. Just amazing.
But overall: TROS was a disappointing movie bc of the story choices and the fact that they wanted to please the Fandom Menace more than the real Star Wars Fans. #welovebensolo
Yeah, Hux... No comments. I mean, a real arc where he became a spy to threaten Kylo's power could have been interesting, but it was played as a joke and had no point.. I agree that some of Kylo's masked forcebonds with Rey were interesting. There were interesting visuals, and it was played as romantic. There were good moments in TROS, but the overall story was lacking.
Who are the "real" Star Wars fans? From the fandom menace's pov the Reylos are sure not, from the Reylos' pov the fm people are sure not.
I am asking because as someone who dislikes TLJ, I belong nowhere. I am called a dudebro because I dare to dislike Rian Johnson's movie but then I am called a toxic fangirl because I love Reylo. Everyone got burned during these 3 movies for sure and it benefits no one if the fandom collectively hate each other. Each side let this franchise down in some shape or form, no one is better, innocent or more real.
@@Chadult OK, I'm sorry to hear that.
The problem is that I have no good experience with the Fandom Menace on a personal level.
It's totally your right to dislike The Last Jedi. I even know some people who love the ending of The Rise Of Skywalker (which I dislike so much). So, everyone can like or dislike what they want. I have absolutely no problem with that. As long as they are respectful with one another and sadly I didn't have this experience with someone from the Fandom Menace.
I agree with a lot of your points. However, my opinion is that this film does a disservice to all portions of the fanbase.
Hello there!
I'm not buying anymore merchandise either, I bought the comics but that's it
DISNEY has ruined my favorite characters, Shang was replaced for BS reasons too
This was so great of you ladies. Thank you for helping me get through my morning at a time like this. You help me feel normal again.
Yes, stay safe, entertained, and positive!
Sometimes I'm glad that Adam Driver took this role, I don't think I wouldn't be appreciated Ben/Kylo Ren even more.
I hope Ben Solo and Rey we'll be in the movie. Always Cathy Ann
I literally spent six months with no desire to consume any Star Wars content after Rise of Skywalker. Today I realized that if I want to see a good Reylo content I have to do it myself.
I love your Reylo art!
Episode 9 devalued a lot in Star Wars, especially in the Skywalkers saga. Episode 9 is not a Skywalkers story, in the final film of the Skywalkers saga, they were pushed aside to tell something about the Palpatines. What for? There 's no point in that. Just as it made no sense to complete the saga by killing all Skywalkers. Star wars gave joy and hope, fell in love with themselves, now only disappointment and hopelessness remain.
Now other Luсasfilm projects are not of interest to me. I don 't want to give my heart to Star Wars anymore. There 's no more heart in Star Wars.
I never, for a single moment, thought they would kill the Skywalkers. It's commercial and brand suicide! But hey, they did it. I agree the Skywalkers were the heart of SW and it all seems a little meaningless without them. I understand.
I agree, I have absolutely no interest in future projects as apparently I'm not the target audience anymore. I might check out the High Republic and The Mandalorian but other than that unless they bring Ben back I'm done.
I really want Ben to have a chat with Anakin in the world beyond worlds to really solidify the connection between their stories
They definitely need to bring back Ben and it has to be Adam Driver in the flesh. He had the soul of an artist/poet/statesman and he could help restore a new government. There would be an interesting dynamic between him and the other characters with plenty of material for another trilogy. But I'm curious, if Rey helps bring him back from the wbw, will he come back naked? Not saying that's a bad thing, but it's just that he did leave his clothes behind...
I see what you're saying about Adam Driver, but his career is soaring right now and I doubt he'd come back in the near future. Ben would need to come back earlier than that. As to being naled... Who knows? Maybe there are cool clothing stores in the WBW? And Ben is a stylish guy . But being naked works, too. Think about Terminator, when they teleport naked. It doesn't look odd or anything.
Listening to this really helped me. Just had to listen to one of my anti Reylo friends talk about how she doesn't like Reylo. And how Reylo beliefs lessen Ben’s character. And I'm just like, let me enjoy my ship in peace 😭 let me mourn Ben Solo in peace😢 sorry random rant.
Good morning Girls. I agree with your comments about Ben's death. I feel that an animated show first. Then if it took 10 years for Adam to play this character again - his aging would make sense.
True!
This trilogy should have centered on Luke, Leia, Han, Ben, and Chewie with Rey, Finn, and Poe being minor characters. I may be weird but I think they focused on all the wrong characters. I don't care much for the stories of Finn, Poe, and Rose. They were not compelling at all. How can you ignore great characters and focus on the mediocre? Adam Driver was incredible and they wasted so much screen time on the others. It's filmmaking at its worst. They robbed Ben/Kylo/Adam. Foolish.
I think it's just that perhaps they took too much screen time. There wasn't a good balance between A plot and B plot, and B plot wasn't that interesting.
They relied too much on trio nostalgia when all that does is cheapen the characters because there was never that chemistry there like the OT, I preferred Trevorrow's idea of the trio being Finn, Poe and Rose.
My thoughts exactly. The trilogies are supposed to be the story of the Skywalkers. And they could have left Finn out for good, his character was completely unnecessary.
I missed you guys!
I'm still sour about the way they handled the sequel trilogy, specialy tros. It shows that they didn't have an overall plan about the story and where they want it to end it. I laughed so hard when you said that they put more thought into his helmet than into Ben/Kylo's arc, it's bittersweet honestly.
I give all the credit to Adam Driver into creating this character, he understood him and even he has said that he is protective of Ben.
I also have this headcanon that he fought along side Rey to destroy the emperor (not falling down that pit, which I thought was stupid), la la la cave falling, sith lords destroyed, they Kiss, and then cut to enjoy the celebration, then cut to Rey on the Lars farm where Ben was waiting for her, then cut to the two of them wstching the horizon, end credits. I think that's the oposite of Anakin's fate they (the writers) talked so much about.
A HAPPY ENDING THEY PROMISSED AND ADVERTISED
True. I think that was the ending we should have gotten. The solution now is to stick to our headcanons...
So glad to hear you all again girls!❤ I pretty much agree with everything you've said about our boi Ben🥰! He finally got a chance in life to be happy as he realized all he wanted was to be with Rey. Not even being the master of the universe was as satisfying as his love for his other half. We as audience members were building up towards that and all we got was ,well ,you all saw the movie... I am hoping that Rey will meet up, by chance or otherwise, with Ezra Bridger and maybe Sabine Ren and go on a quest with their help to find Ben in the world between worlds. BTW, Mary please give Rebels a chance! I really loved the show and there is romance, although very subtle, in that show too. Thank you for the great podcast, especially now ,working in health care when everything seems so uncertain and frightening. You made my day! MTFBWY!
Stay strong, and thanks for what you do!
He obviously is the most interesting character of the new trilogy. Everthing you said about the Kylo/Hux dynamics is true. I really wanted it to be "their" conflict, "their" fight in episode 9, instead we got Pryde. A big disappointment, at least for me. More interactions between Kylo and his parents would have been great too. And a little more of Ben Solo of course. At first I thought that I didn't like him/the redemption but those last minutes in TroS completely changed my mind. Your exciting videos also added something to that :)
Ben Solo in TROS was amazing and made a lot of people root for the character. Pity it wasn't very consistent, and what they did with Hux was terrible!
This sounds like some amazing fanfiction you guys are writing in this vid. You guys should collaborate on something! I'd definitely read it!
Haha, maybe. Mary needs to write a fanfiction and I'll keep pestering her.
I just finished the novel this weekend and I must say...wow! It is a fantastic companion piece to the film. I don't want to spoil anything but it will make your heart hurt so bad for Ben Solo (in a good way if that makes sense). I believe that Adam Driver would be more than willing to step back into the role as long as the story and writing is good but not for awhile. He seems very protective of this character based on interviews I have read and probably wouldn't want anyone else to play Ben. I could only see this happening if perhaps it was a much younger Ben Solo. I think Disney/Lucasfilm has also learned their lesson not to recast based on the Solo debacle. I also watched the documentary on TROS and that was great too! It feels like there was so, so much left out...
Yes, I think it's just that Adam Driver's career is soaring right now and it's not the moment to go back to Star Wars. But in a few years, why not? They could continue his story in other media, though.
@@LordsoftheSithPodcast still waiting for that Kylo Ren/Ben Solo novel. Someone please make it happen! Haha
The TROS novelization states that when Ben Solo came to Exegol for the final battle, Rey saw him as more confident and relaxed. She even saw the resemblance between him and his parents; Han’s long face and posture and Leia’s warm brown eyes.
Didn't Ben have two dialogue words in the TROS film? Wasn't his "Dad" to Han the first? I think when he said Dad he does an emotional shake of his body. I do think that is where Ben emerged from the Kylo persona. Then just Ow. In the novelization though he does tell Rey "I will always be with you." Sooooo many missed opportunities missed on such an interesting character.
True!
lucasfilm treats ben solo like they treated luke skywalker, totally downplaying their value. i agree they dont care about the wound they inflicted to the fandom. so sad. they downplay kylo cuz they wanted fans to like rey finn and poe more but they were not written in an interesting way. kylo was interesting cuz he was the grandchild of vader and hans and leias child and he had an interesting conflict people wanted to see how it concluded
Finn could have been super interesting with his stormtrooper background, but he was given no complexity.
@@LordsoftheSithPodcast agreed it was like they were scared to do something interesting with finn . and regressed poes character and didnt know what to do with rey. wasted potential
After Ep 9 I'm not nterested in paying Disney +, seing Clone Wars... I saw Mandalorian and I liked it. BUT...but...I can't see anything about SW because they "smashed" the end pf the saga. I really liked the comic of the Rise of Kylo Ren, and I'm glad they sold so many comics because Ben is an amazing character and maybe...in the future....Who knows? I hope they bring him back (alive)
My friend watched TFA-TROS the other day for the first time and the very first thing she texted me after was "wait...why did Ben have to die?" 😭
Oh, no...
I would've liked to see Ben and Rey as maybe a vigilante couple. Sort of like Batman and Catwoman, with Ben going on all these quests to atone for his sins. Incorporating that into my fanfic.
Can we meet on amino or discord?I wanna see this
I too, would have loved to have seen more of Hux vs Kylo. Also, a lost opportunity to have Kylo be concerned he might lose Rey to Finn. Kylo would have had a totally different take even on a platonic relationship. Kylo (not Ben) would have perceived ANY male who interacted with Rey as a threat, a rival. I get goosebumps thinking about how splendidly AD would have played a jealous lovesick Kylo. That Kylo would be jealous would have also mirrored his dad’s misguided thinking about Leia and Luke, only Kylo would have tried to kill his rival. (I feel sorry that Kylo never got a face-to-face with Leia. Carrie’s death made this impossible, of course.) The number of movies should really have been extended to 4.
ever since TROS came out, the merch has come to a holt. I actually got my kylo hoodie back in November and even when I got it. it was the last one of the rack; I had kept going back each week to check and they were either stocked but not my size or there wasn't any there at all. but I managed to get mine eventually.
I did ask the woman why the kylo merch was low and she did say "everyone keeps buying the kylo stuff" and my disney store always has no kylo merch but all the resistance stuff was still stocked up lol.
BEN SOLO IS THE BEST. PERIOD.
and as for you Mary, I feel you. I saw a tweet only a few days after seeing pros. it was a before and after pic of someone's Star Wars office. the before showed it looking like a glorious museum of merch but then the after pic showed it all boxed up and the tweet read "selling it on eBay" I was sad :(
I can't get excited for any sw stuff now :( I did watch Mando and I enjoyed it very much. but ive never watched rebels or clone wars and I can't even get excited for Obi wan show :(. I don't care for the Kevin movie and even tho I love Rian so much! I can't get exited for his (mainly because we still don't know what it will be about.) and finally; I can't get excited for high republic. BORING.
To this day I can't really watch his death scene. I think it is because I'm definetly not over it. I REALLY hope they bring him back someday
Yeah, it would bring a lot of fans back, too.
Are you guys going to discuss the novelization of TROS? The whole "the kiss wasn't romantic" thing bothers me. In context, it seemed romantic to me but I keep seeing so many sites saying it wasn't. Am I just dumb or are they purposely trying to retcon Reylo?
We aren't going to discuss the novelization because we don't want to read it. I saw the paragraph about the kiss. It was from Ben's pov, still dumbfounded that Rey would love him. And there are lots of other passages that suggest that it was romantic. The articles saying it wasn't romantic are playing dumb. They know very well what an onscreen kiss means. That said, Lucasfilm is avoiding confirming that it was romantic or promoting their canon couple, which is completely stupid. I think they want to please everyone including antis. It's terrible.
Ben Solo/Kylo Ren actually follows a character arc. Plus the actor is character is charismatic. Not so sure how it would have gone with a different actor.
OH MY GOSH! Your mom and I must be the same age, because I felt the same way. I cannot even view TFA again because of Han's death at his son's hands. When the REYLO thing first started I thought that a lot of the SW fans had lost their minds. My sister (who is not as big of a SW fan as I am, noticed a Romance in the series). I, myself, never saw a romance...I saw harassment. I was terrified for Rey. It took 3 viewings of TLJ to see what my sister saw the 1st time. That there is something more between Rey & Ben than I realized. Thanks for video!
That's really cool that you kept an open mind about it.
1] It feels like this was a memorial service for Ben. Very well-done, girls.
2] I don't like feeling suspicious, either, especially about things like this. But I keep wondering if JJ looked at the midichlorian thing from the prequels, took it to mean that the Skywalkers were an anomaly in the Force because of it, and used that as an excuse to kill them all off. It's the only conclusion my brain keeps coming back to.
& 3] Speaking of fan-fiction, that could be used that as a catalyst for future episodes, celebrating different authors and the angles they take the story in. I've seen a few I think you'd really like.
A few things: Many of the things that Mary wanted in the movie are included in the novelization. The Chewbacca concept art is written in the novelization. Kylo confronts Chewy and delves into his mind and is confronted with memories of Ben as a boy and that even though Chewy shot him, he didn't shoot to kill because Ben was still his nephew. Kylo then is the one to release Chewy but it explains why Chewy's things are in Kylo's quarters in the movie. There is the BTS of Ben in Exagol where Adam is *clearly* a Reylo. He states that Ben only wants to be with Rey and will do whatever he can to stay next to her side. But the novelization says the kiss was "out of gratitude" and doesn't speak to any romance. People are *pissed* about that.
The more I watch the BTS of Han and Kylo the more I'm convinced that he was Ben during that and not Kylo. He was probably fighting to keep the Kylo Ren alter ego away but he was Ben. Kylo NEVER would have called Han "Dad".
Ben wouldn't have been able to come back to The Resistance/Republic so easily. He is still a war criminal. The moment he came back the Republic would have him arrested and then executed. Being Leia's son wouldn't have given him much clout. Even if Rey vouched for him, he was with the First Order for *years* prior to the events of TFA. Because of this, I know people who are okay with his death because it was in his hands. So, if he were to be alive he would have to make *a lot* of amends. I can see him working for The Republic to disassemble all of the First Order bases. He and Rey could do it together or she could build the new Temple and he would be enlisted or something as punishment for his crimes.
As for Merch, you can still get the Kylo Ren Bear on Build-a-Bear's website along with all of the costumes and props.
We recorded this before the novelization came out. We saw the BTS, and we know AD obviously knows it's romantic. As far as I know, Rae Carson didn't mean to say that the kiss was just of gratitude and there are romantic moments in the book.
In terms of Kylo's ability to be forgiven, I don't think it would be easy, and that's fine. Stories are about overcoming difficult obstacles. Remember most people haven't seen his face. And we have some examples in canon of ex imperials being forgiven. But it would be cool to see him making up for his mistakes.
@@LordsoftheSithPodcast I agree, you can be romantically involved with a person and kiss them for different reasons. I choose to believe that it was more than just gratitude. I mean, no woman kisses a man just out of gratitude. Just like no woman does her makeup and hair and drives over to a dude's house to return a t-shirt. lol
I didn't think of the not seeing his face angle. But, some how I imagine that if his face could be everywhere then it would be. But I don't think those ex-imperials were of the high ranking that Ben was. Even so, it would make for a great story to have him systematically go around dismantling all of the First Order outposts as penance.
I've been in stores for Disney and just general clothes stores or toy stores and I havent seen merch for TRoS at all but I saw stuff for TLJ LOL
Ironic. (Imagine Palpatine here)
Love your commentary. However, the TFA “man-gown” is basically a knight’s surcoat, which is quite a masculine garment (though not to 21st century eyes). Thanks for this post!
Agreed. His looks in TFA are quite medieval-inspired, and it's quite cool.
*Ben Solo Lives Forever*
Many ways he can come back regardless of Disney's infinite stupidity and cowardice
1) The Force saves him as it did in TFA
2) Anakin & Obi-Wan plead with The Force to save his grandson Ben
3) Ben Solo is allowed to travel in the World Between Worlds, by The Force. Meeting many force users throughout time and reuniting with Rey
4) Rey goes further to the Dark Side after losing *the one person who actually understood and loved her* and The Force realises whoops we screwed up let's fix this. It also parallels Revan and Bastila Shan
5) Rey stays on Ahch-to and again enters the cave from TLJ which turns out to be an entrance to The World Between Worlds.
6) Rey has to struggle as much as Ben in order to understand his pain and be torn apart as The Dark Side tries to completely overtake her due to the immense grief, anger and loneliness she felt has been sent over the edge and increased tenfold. However afterwords The Force, allows her to see a vision of Ben Solo trying to get to her throughout The World Between Worlds.
7) Rey is willing to go against the entire galaxy, heavily influenced by The Dark Side however she knows that Ben Solo Is Alive. And will not accept any other outcome that doesn't include Ben Solo's Return.
8) Rey learns a way to enter The Force spiritually with the risk that her physical body might not be the same if she makes too many mistakes. Which she will. She's inexperienced and emotional after all.
9) The Force ships Reylo and won't take this BS anymore!
10) Disney CAN'T make any money off Star Wars long-term without Ben Solo and Reylo as well. There's too much money left on the table to just walk away from. Also I think Adam Driver WILL return for two reasons. 1) HE LOVES BEN SOLO SOO MUCH! 2) Disney ain't making shit in terms of money after The Mandalorian & TCW is over WITHOUT Ben Solo.
In Conclusion: BRING BACK BEN SOLO YOU COWARDS! YOU LIKE MONEY RIGHT? WELL BRING HIM BACK. YOU HAVE NO FUTURE WITH STAR WARS WITHOUT HIM! THAT IS FACTUAL AND THAT IS ALL!
I love him, because he's like a little kid. But my brother, doesn't 'cause he like three kinds of characters: the ones he loves to hate like Hax, the funny ones like Jack Sparrow and those who are like Julio Olmedo by Grand Hotel. If Kylo/Ben resurrected, the soundtrack must be "Vale ena kafe" by Hatzigiannis (the hypothetical scenario will be understood only by the Greek).
#BenSoloLives Thank God,Trevorrow was fired 'cause Ben died unredeemable in his script( disgraceful,disgusting and awful).
I actually saw something that he died with "light in his eyes", but it was way too little, to late. He was even more evil in Trevorrow's version. No wonder he was fired.
Trevorrow had some good ideas in his script but the way he wanted to handle the characters was gross.
Lords of the Sith, I would watch your version of fan fiction on Disney+, when Rey tells Ben that she is pregnant before going off to face a Sith Lord, somewhere! I actually imagine this and wish Reylo was given such a beautiful future, starting with Rian Johnson’s TLJ. This could have been the story arc in Episode 8, but a lack of good screenwriting, vision and planning has ruined the entire sequel trilogy for us fans...please launch your show on Disney + because I will be a faithful fan, to the end. Many thanks for your lovely podcasts!
I'm glad you like the podcasts.
I had been wondering if you gals had seen the movie more than once. I know I'm not that interested in seeing it again. Have any of you read the novel? I find I'm enjoying it more than the movie but then I haven't gotten to the part where Ben dies, so who knows? Would love to hear what you think of that and any EU books you can recommend. I love hearing from all you ladies and I hope you keep going with your podcast, even if the movie left you hanging I think you have more to offer all of us out here!
None of us have read the novel and we don't intend to read it. We are going to do episodes about other books, and it's true that we could talk about some EU material too, eventually. It's better to focus on stuff that makes us happy.
@@LordsoftheSithPodcast truly I just don't want you ladies to get fed up and go away. I really look forward to your podcast and listening to your observations and opinions. So please keep doing what you're doing even if it's not Reylo related 🥰
@@lizshomler4065 Oh, yes, we have tons of ideas for future episodes and we'll stick around.
@@lizshomler4065 Thanks. We also love to do this, so we won't go anywhere.
I still think the Trilogy would have been better as a Tv mini Series
a cinema mini series though because my home sound and video system is terrible ;)
But yeah, I so agree with you.
They just had so much going on storywise and barely dove deep into any of the characters and mythology. Just one or two more hours in the right places could have made such a difference.
TV has more time to develop characters, right? But cinema can be such an amazing spectacle...
I always thought it would have been cool if when Ben turns back after he'd thrown his lightsaber into the ocean, in the eyeline of where Han had been standing was the millenium falcon with Finn and Poe arguing about Rey leaving them and what to do next (I actually thought that that was what was going to happen and was jumping in my seat in the cinema before...disappointment); and [SPOILERS for ATLA season 3] like Zuko approaching the gAang in Atla, Ben had approached Finn, Poe, Chewie, Jannah and BB8 and because (in this version he had released Chewie), and because of Rey saving him - Ben explains the force bond and they have an uneasy alliance to try and find Rey. There's also a storm trooper uprising in this one because come on guys Finn could have had such an amazing arc that was set up across the movies alongside Ben becoming a "traitor" and "rebel scum." I also would of had DJ come back and be the spy instead of Hux as a first order coder, as sort of a mini redemption for his character; and then you could of had that spicy rivalry with Hux come to ahead - him taking over the First Order after Kylo Ren "betrays" them.
This movie could have been so good and it keeps me up at night hoping that they continue their stories in some way where these interactions can happen because they're such GOOD characters, but anyway...
Ben Solo Lives 🦋💙, and if there's hope, then there's possibility.
(I know this video was posted 2 years ago, but with the new Kenobi series coming out soon my love for Star Wars has been blossoming again, and that love always comes back round to the sequel trilogy characters, reylo and the podcasts that made me love them and their mythic symbolism even more
Maybe I am just different but if you meant the sequel trilogy not making anyone love star wars, then I am the exception. I had never watched more than 5 mintues in passing of star wars before TFA and that was a month before TROS. In 3-4 months after that, I watched every single star wars thing besides lego series and haven't gotten around to Solo. I need to get past the no harrison as Han
I’m a huge Star Wars fan but I haven’t been able to watch any Star Wars movies since tros, and I have no urge to. I also can’t wear any Star Wars merch because it’s just sad
I know... I kind of feel that way, too. That's why I think bringing Ben Solo back and trying to undo some of the TROS mess would be important to restore some of the trust and love for Star Wars.
Exactly! If they brought him back in a show or heck even a comic I would definitely be happy with Star Wars again. A world between worlds show would be really awesome
I've been thinking about the possibility of a Disney+ animated series or a comic series a few years from now, it will be the only way to heal the massive gaping wound in Star Wars left behind by the sequel trilogy, money talks, The Clone Wars ended and there is no Star Wars material besides The Mandalorian that is going to make money for the foreseeable future
Yeah, I personally think that an animated series is the only way to fix the Skywalker saga wound. And it can be done. I bet even the Mandalorian isn't going to do as well now that people aren't excited for SW anymore.
@@LordsoftheSithPodcast I think some time needs to pass before anything happens after how people are feeling with everything, there's already a bunch of live action shows planned that I can't see anyone being that excited for and The High Republic doesn't look like something that will regain trust
@@iregretdyeingmyeyebrows5645 yes, they are rehashing old stuff... I don't see anything big coming out any time soon either.
I don't wanna be in JJs team, but if he said that FOR HIM rey and kylo's relationship is romantic then .. I will kind of forgive him. Not all the way, but kind of
Yes, that's what we said (At least me, Denise, and Lee) that he confirmed that for him it was romantic in TFA. That's actually huge. He's an OG Reylo... So yeah, it's hard to be completely angry at him.
Lucasfilm drop the ball
hey, if palpatine can come back with his crusty, musty, fell off a cliff after being electrocuted ass.... then ben can for sure
I only saw TROS once in theaters. I just didn't have the desire to see it again.
Yeah. I mean, if it doesn't make you happy, there's no point in watching it again.
The Legacy family was destroyed, and it left a bad taste in fans mouth.
I wanted Rey to go to the dark side
It's weird because they kind of did it in IX, but didn't explore her feelings about it, and Luke brushed it aside.
Worst. Sith. Ever.