I think the whole Disney trilogy is virtually trash. But I do like Reylo. Rian Johnson's take wasn't Star Wars, a 200 meter fishing spear, a light saber hitting Rey in the head, a iron made to look like a spaceship. Also brining the Emperor back was stupid. The mystery of Snoke was a joke. Snokes over done force powers although it was the Emperor also didn't work. Making Luke look like a joke was sad! Luke could of been a great mentor to Rey... Mark could of been a successful support actor for Daisy. But Disney had to play games. Kathleen Kennedy had no idea what she's doing. Cobra Kai is the perfect example of you hire one team for the entire trilogy. A team the respects the story line. Lucas's Star Wars was serious. He went solo and succeeded. But corporate Disney were too scared to keep the seriousness. Anyhow my rant. Like yr vids and hear what women think. I am a Reylo fan... That's why I write this,. So much more could of been done. Emperor a waste, Casino Scene a waste, Star Ships running out of fuel, again a waste...
Lu: I agree they should have stayed with one writer/director throughout. It would have been way more cohesive. Thank you for liking our videos! 🙏❤ I also TOTALLY LOVE COBRA KAI!
Here's a quote from Adam Driver about TLJ's ending that really puts his character into perspective. *Interviewer:* "Does Kylo Ren survive Episode 8?" *Adam:* "Depends on what your definition of 'living' is." I think this nicely reinforces your idea of Kylo Ren dying in that final moment with the dice.
I think the reason why Rey was so furious at Kylo for killing Han is that she can’t understand why someone would kill a loving parent who went back for their child. It’s the one and only thing shes ever wanted, her parents to come back for her and to love her, and she see’s Kylo get EXACTLY what she wanted ALL those lonely years on Jakku, and instead of being overjoyed Kylo murders Han. It’s just so insane to her, which it should be because she is Kylo/Ben’s mirror. He has everything she wants(family, legacy, purpose) and she has everything he wants (freedom of having no lineage, no expectations, complete agency over her own life). Honestly, I just love these movies and these character’s soooo much. I’ve NEVER come across two character’s written THIS WELL with THIS MUCH subtext and symbolism....it’s freaking amazing.
Excellent point. Yes, she would have seen him going back for Ben, risking himself to do so, and that's all she had ever wanted was for her parents to love her enough to do that for her.
This channel is so refreshing compared to the “real fan channels” who complain about the last Jedi for the SOLE reason they thought Luke should have been some badass warrior - who isn’t who Luke is after return of the Jedi and would have been so stale
It's less that people are angry that Luke isn't a warrior so much as they heavily derailed his character for no real reason at all. Besides, Luke is the man that redeemed one of the most evil men in the Star Wars galaxy. To have him even draw his saber against someone who hasn't done anything wrong yet seems more than just a little out of character.
Psychology also says that we fell in love with people who resemble our fathers or mothers (for men, their mothers; for women; their fathers). So, in this case, it’s not surprising that Ben fell for Rey because she’s in many ways like Leia: a strong, intelligent, caring and beautiful woman, Force sensitive, leader, commited to a noble cause.
I'm a huge Jane Austen fan. When I took my nephews to see TLJ, and watched the throne room scene I started to cry. Became a Star Wars fan at that very moment. Darcy = Solo ♡
Leia is certainly responsible for Kylo's respectful attitude toward women, and possibly why he convinced himself to kill Han, who wasn't happy or satisfied as a devoted husband and longed to return to his old restless, smuggling ways. He didn't see his father as worthy or chivalrous. I'm not justifying murder, just thinking about his motivations and the way he is portrayed as a knight.
If I'm repeating things here, my apologies in advance. Having said that here we go. Two points. Maybe another if I think of it in the course of writing. As for Kylo Ren (Ben Solo) being a weakling. Let's roll it back shall we? I'm going to make a comparison with Ben Kenobi in Episode II. He gets a "scratch" on the arm and the leg from Count Dooku's lightsaber and he's out for the rest of the fight. Ben Solo takes a Wookie Bowcaster blast to the side and stomach. Instead of flying twenty feet through the air screaming to his death, he takes a knee for a few seconds. Does he stay down? NO! He gets the *blank* up and goes out there to fight Finn and Rey essentially two on one (because the break between the duels was less than a minute) without the advantage of a two-bladed weapon. He wipes out Finn in less than a minute, and wipes the ground with Rey until compassion makes him offer to teach her. I guarantee that just like Ben can feel Rey's loneliness and her painful memories, he can feel her fear about what is inside her (the Force) that she doesn't understand. So he tells her at that moment the same thing Luke tells her later. "You need a teacher". The difference? Luke says: "I can't teach you." Ben says: "I could show you the ways of the Force." Take note: Ben does not mention the Dark Side to Rey as he clearly did with Lor San Tekka ("I'll show you the Dark Side.") Now for the bit about Kylo Ren (Ben Solo) throwing Rey against the tree. Let's remember, he had just been shot minutes ago. What was he supposed to do when he saw Rey pull the pistol? Was he supposed to just stand there like an idiot and let Rey shoot him again? I think not. Beyond that, when he says: "It's just us now. Han Solo can't save you." I believe he's looking at and talking to Finn. Han didn't save Rey from anything, but Han Solo DID save Finn from getting killed by the stormtrooper that called him a traitor. Let's go a step further though. Let's assume that when Rey pulls the pistol on Ben, Ben simply pulls it out of her hand with the Force and throws it behind him. Here's the problem with that. Right after that moment, here comes Finn with the lightsaber, running towards Ben and roaring/yelling like a screaming mad lunatic. So, while Kylo Ren (Ben Solo) is fighting Finn with a lightsaber, Rey would have had almost a full minute to go run and find the pistol and shoot Ben in the back. Knocking Rey out was Ben's only reasonable choice to get Rey out of the way long enough to deal with Finn properly while doing as little harm to Rey as was reasonably possible. Is it me, or does the beginning part of Ben and Rey's duel look like a dance?
J. Rossi Emrys, here. Yes, I agree with all of this. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 And you’re exactly right. Combat choreography is always about the relationship between those two people. Kylo and Finn was a fight in the streets to prove who’s the better man. Kylo and Rey are definitely dancing: they even do a spin in unison. And she is responding to all of his steps. He’s leading (until Rey is empowered by the Dark to teach him a lesson). His saber was aside his body as he ignites it. I think his “weakness” for her was evident during the entire duel. He tells her to stop the entire time. His positions his sword at the outer rim of her body. The only reason he corners her is that she won’t stop.
Hi Emrys. Thanks for taking the time to write. This video is really making me think I have to imagine that as the "grand finale" of the Skywalker family story, that there will be a climatic lightsaber duel in Episode IX. I HOPE that it involves Ben and Rey fighting together against a new opponent. IF however, we get Ben versus Rey, round two: I hope it ends in one of two ways... Either as a "stalemate" where neither one can overpower the other (because they are equals in the Force and balance each other), or it could end with Ben overpowering Rey and forcing her down. A "flip" of the TFA, duel....but Ben refuses to kill Rey. Either way I get a very clear image in my mind of Ben and Rey both impaling each other through the heart with their lightsabers. It's in their "last" moments that they would realize just how badly they messed up, and they would combine their power to call out to the Force itself for help. The Force would "step in" and help, essentially saying to them. "Now you see what happens when you don't listen to me. Are you ready to listen?" I have long envisioned Ben using his power to save a dying Rey, not to put Rey "down", but to show us the inversion of Anakin. Ben would choose love instead of power, and would succeed where Anakin failed, saving the woman he loves. It would also show the antithesis of what happened to Han, with Ben saving the life of a loved one, instead of taking it.
J. Rossi I love the idea of Kylo resurrecting Rey from death. If executed correctly, it will be a powerful moment. I hope if they duel, they will duel together, fighting Dark Side Force users. Or Ben will train Rey. Ben has so many hurdles to leap over to redeem himself to both Rey and the audience that I think him combating with violent intent, he will threaten that redemption. From a woman’s perspective, It would for me; once a man comes close to killing me, I would never trust him again. Even at his darkest, he has never intentionally hurt her, and her presence calms his rage.
That's why I don't want to see them fight (against each other) again. I don't see Ben being violent with Rey either. He'd have to literally stand there and block everything and disarm her, then give the lightsaber back. A fight between them could only end with Rey winning a second time (seen it already). I wouldn't want the same "end" in VII and IX. There's still Armitage Hux, the General. He hates Ben and could easily make a power grab, putting Ben on trial for treason, leading to either execution or exile until Ben busts his way out of "jail" a la a lighter take on Vader in the Rogue One hallway.. In order for Ben to resurrect Rey from death, if they go that way, someone has to get her to the point of being either near death or actually dead. Ben obviously can't, shouldn't and wouldn't do it. Hux would have no problem with such a deed as far as wanting to do it. The only other opponents I could think of as of now would have to be either the Knights of Ren (if they show up) or someone we don't know yet. Ben would all but have to train Rey now, if she was to get further training. Luke can't do it. He could talk to her as a Force Ghost, maybe, but he couldn't physically help her do anything. If Ben does "clash" with Rey again, I hope it is just as a "training session" as you suggest. It will be beyond interesting to see what they come up with.
I agree about Pride and Prejudice. There's also a lot of parallels between Kylo/Ben and Rey and Phantom/Eric and Christine in Phantom of the Opera. Especially the book.
Emrys: LOL! Thank you for singing in the Reylo choir with me! ;) I am a Janey and a Reylo, and I will defend----we will defend---Darcy, regardless if he wears a cravat or wields a saber. For we know the end result. ;) I love Jane Austen, and I wish more people would know the magnitude of the imprint she left, not just in the romantic genre, but the historical socioeconimc observations that she made, without being preachy, but as a woman of and ahead of her time. I also wish people would read P & P and Bronte's Jane Eyre to understand that Reylo isn't a silly romance but one patterned off the greatest romances in literature, imo. See, ranting again... I can't help myself. LOL.
@@GirlsWithSabers For the longest time, I only knew Austen from the films of her books. When I finally got around to reading them as an adult, I was blown away by how SAVAGE she is! I also love how if you read her books in the order they were written, you can see her mature from a harsh and judgemental girl to a forgiving and compassionate woman. Her early books are more romantic but her later ones are so much kinder to the flawed parents. 💜 them all!
@@mlrafiki I love her maturity too. I think from Northanger Abbey she shows that she went through a Gothic romance phase too but Catherine was her way of discussing the thrill of The Monk to something more humanistic and blunt as Henry Tilney. I think Austen would be a Reylo myself. :) She wouldn't belittle the Cathy's and she would be patiently persuaded with the Lizzie's. :) LOL!
I am so happy to have analytical fan girls to hang out with. And can I just say that Pride and Prejudice and Zombies has one of my favorite proposal scenes because the verbal jousting that occurs is also in physical form too. I can't wait to see that TROS! Eeeeekkkkkk!
I like to think of this last SW trilogy as having a Joseph Campbell "Monomyth" overlay but not just Ben's journey but also Rey's heroins' journey. The "Beauty and the Beast" / "Pride and Prejudice" protagonists love story bring this trilogy the romantic elements that tug on our hearts keeping us ever hopeful that romantic love can win no matter how bleak the conditions appear. After all, love is the best thing about human life and makes the struggle worth the the effort. Everything else pales by comparison. Thanks for your shared video & thoughts. Keep them coming!
Loved this video. Still think people are forgetting that when Ben told Rey she was nothing but not to him that he'd been made privy to her most hurtful experiences and feelings during their communion of minds on Starkiller base. He knew that she'd been told that she was nothing by none other than Unkar Plutt. We see this exchange between Rey and Unkar Plutt in the TFA novel. She drew herself up with as much pride as she could muster. “I am an independent operator, scavenger of the metal lands, free of debt and beholden to no one. Least of all to a small-time trader named Plutt.” “You are…you are…” The merchant tried to control himself. “You have nothing. You are nothing!” “On the contrary,” she shot back, “I just told you who I am. As to what I have, that would be my freedom and my pride.” When it seems Ben is saying the same, it hurts her more than it did with Unkar Plutt because she cares what Ben thinks of her while she didn't of Unkar. Her expression is visibly saddened until he finishes the statement "but not to me." He was trying to assure her that he was not like all the others who had devalued her. He was being sweet but it came out sounding wrong.
Yes, exactly. It was also Rian's message to the fans, in my opinion. Just because Rey would not be important enough in their eyes because she's not from some superior lineage (which was never supposed to exist because of the Jedi code), she is important to him. She's nothing in the eyes of many in the universe. She's nothing in some fans eyes because she's not a Palpatine or a Kenobi or a Skywalker (unless they've misdirected us and Kylo on purpose, though not regarding the Skywalker line), she is important. To him, she's just as important as if she were a Palpatine or a Kenobi. Why is something like that important, anyway? Why is being from junk traders make her less worthy to be a heroine, to be a love interest, to be a Jedi? Anakin came from "nothing", (most Jedi do come from nothing) and that is exactly why I think, and hope, they will continue on with what they started and make her importance not be because of her bloodline but because of who she is. Which means that she is not nothing. She is everything.
Well said, Ladies. It's nice to hear from RUclipsrs who have intelligent insight into a great franchise. Some people think that Lucasfilm didn't have an endgame for this trilogy, but it's clear to many of us that ReyLo is definitely what they were aiming for.
I love you ladies and this series on Kylo Ren! I’ve been binge watching the whole thing! I can’t believe I didn’t see the Batman and Kylo parallels! Now I am like duh! 😆 You have a new dedicated subscriber in me! You are preaching to the choir! I just don’t see how people see Rey and Kylo’s relationship as abusive. I love Jane Austen and am thrilled that so much was taken from P&P for this story. It’s one of my favorite love stories of all time. I’m glad JJ and Rian were also fans of Austen. I honestly am floored that people still don’t believe that Rey and Ben will end up together. Seriously what movies were those people watching??? It’s so poetic to end the Skywalker saga on a love story that is the exact opposite of Anakin and Padme. It’s honestly perfect! I can’t wait for Episode IX!
Only 3 minutes in. What I absolutely love is that after ben essentially lets Rey win, she explodes with a power he wasn’t expecting. She uses his hesitance against him and proves to him that she’s far more powerful than he thought (even though she was using his own skills). It’s done just right so that the film doesn’t accidentally portray a message that letting a woman win is fair. Ben’s hesitance cost him and proved to him that Rey wasn’t just someone with potential, she could handle herself. Absolutely fantastic imo.
Ben being attracted to her had to shake him to the core. Even if itwas the force. The whole Mr Darcy story. I'm pretty sure that Ben has not been around a long of women excess for his mother . Thanks for the video Mike another great video!
I can t get enough of your videos! The points you make Judy’s flow together and continue to ignite your fans passion for this beautiful crafted story! Keep it up girls! Peace, love and Reylo♥️
Yes!!! The Dark Knight becomes The Knight In Shining Armor!! I love it!! Another wonderful video. I love the Jane Austen Pride and Prejudice parallels you brought to light, and I love your enthusiasm!! your channel is so much fun to watch! I love being able to nerd out about Reylo and Bendeption with you! :)
I wish I knew the whole muted audio thing in TFA. That's wild. I never read the book. I'd agree that Kylo is an unhinged but classic gentleman. I can definitely notice that now, plus to whole cross guard thaaang
It's not abusive because it's not meant to hurt her. Yes it is projection, but projection doesn't negate abuse. The fact that in his fumbling way he's trying to be honest and magnanimous instead of intentionally cutting is what means it's not abuse.
LOVE!!!! Humble Suggestion - please create a standalone video of the proposal scene, and it has the title of (I trust you to create a better one) - If Kylo Is An Abuser, So Is Darcy. I bet that most who say that about Kylo would never dream saying that about Darcy, and you are correct - it is the same! :D :)
I agree with much of what you said. For the sake of argument, I will contend that Star Wars is literally designed to be in the vein of the monomyth. Lucas was a student of Campbell. In a sense, Star Wars is in the very spiritual lineage of Joseph Campbell. The Heroes Journey is not just for fiction. It is a rough life blueprint that can be followed whether you are spiritual or an atheist. It is imperative that Star Wars maintains it's Heroes Journey tradition. This can of course be extended to Rey in her Goddess Journey. As long as they do that, they can add whatever English literature tropes that they want.
Awake Now oh, I so agree with you!!! It is first and foremost the monomyth. But in discussions with Star Wars fans, when in defense of this new trilogy, I (and Luthien ) brought up the infusion of the Gothic Romance and the Shakespearean Romance, those fans belittle the later’s importance . I wish they would see the beauty of the expansion.
Ahh in that case, I am totally on-board! I'm actually a big fan of Wuthering Heights. And I know that its a story about what happens if love becomes corrupted by obsession and greed. Kylo always reminded me of some kind of reverse Heathcliff. A Heathcliff who can redeem himself in the end alongside Rey. And I'm super looking forward to your monomyth vid!
6:11 how did I never know this?? I would pay good money (if I had any) to hear Adam driver as ben say that to Rey. Whyyyyyyyyy JJ?! Give us the clip! Even if it’s the sound clip! Just give us this one thing!!! Lol
You guys are right when you compare Kylo to these other characters. I do believe that in his mind he is doing what is best for everyone and cannot see the damage and how destructive it is or can be. You know, another thing is that after Rey found out about what happened between Luke and Ben she dropped all her previous judgement of him. So, in a way she is the only person who has ever looked into Ben Solo's mind and see HOPE, beside Leia but she is his mother and even she has given up more than she wants to believe. Leia probably does not know about what happened with Luke either because she would be piiiissed. But all Luke, Han and even Leia sees is the darkness and are focused on that while Rey sees hope and the light that is still inside of him and the others are extremely focused on the darkness in him that some of them are responsible for too. It seems as if everyone is scared of the darkness inside of Ben and Rey is trying to chase the light in him. Am I the only one who thinks this?
@ Girls with Sabers hey guys one observation that I've just now noticing from TFA. After Ben and Rey interrogation scene he goes back to Snoke to tell him about his new revelations of the scavenger he captured. From the tone of Ben's voice when he tells Snoke that, " she is strong with the Force, untrained but stronger than she knows" did he sound excited to you all because throughout both TFA & TLJ his voice is relatively low and baritone like and in that scene his voice seem to raise by an octave?
He was being a bit defensive, since Snoke said, "She resisted YOU." which could account for the raised voice, but that "but stronger than she knows", the way he said it. He was so impressed by her. Soooooooo impressed. And definitely excited, too.
I love you girls. You're so fun! I just had a girl respond to me on Pinterest all about how I was wrong about the romance and redemption and how there's these clues that they're related. I just had to laugh and shake my head, sad over her delusion and lack of understanding over basic story arc structure! Just insane.
Yahoo! I’ve been checking in daily to see if there was a new notification from GWS. So relieved to find your latest vlog about our favorite knight. Love the cape and super hero comparison. Sooo true! 😍
Yet another stunner! I try to do my homework and listen to your podcasts, but guess how much homework I get done? :-P That was one sweet rant, and reminded me of things I shout in my house. My husband is my Reylo twin, thank goodness, or he'd have lost his mind by now. I am also a Janey, and it is all TRUE about how we get if you come for us, lol. And here is a quote from Roger Ebert's review of the Kiera Knightley "Pride and Prejudice" that speaks to Reylo: "But a lot must happen before the happy ending, and I particularly admired a scene in the rain where Darcy and Lizzie have an angry argument. This argument serves two purposes: It clears up misunderstandings, and it allows both characters to see each other as the true and brave people they really are. It is not enough for them to love each other; they must also love the goodness in each other, and that is where the story's true emotion lies." The Throne Room Proposal in a nutshell. Ben and Rey are on their way to loving the goodness in each other. May J.J. do the right thing by all of us in Episode IX!
Would you guys be able to do a podcast on those Poe Dameron Comics those parts with Rey and discuss Damrey and Finnrey? Because people have got their heads in this mindset that Rey is gonna end up with Poe or Finn.
Yeah, it's ridiculous. Those who think so (that she'll end up with Finn or Poe) know absolutely nothing of story structure, symbolism, the story arc, etc. N-O-T-H-I-N-G.
As much as I love Reylo, I can see the appeal of Finnrey and Damrey as Oscar and John are very attractive gentlemen, much like Adam. Though accord to Oscar Isaac Stormpilot was going to be cannon at one point but Disney chickened out and left it as subtext.
I always thought Ben purposely to Rey was so cringy that it was funny like I knew what he was trying to say to Rey but did it in an asshole way for him being a son of Han Solo he doesn’t know how to talk to girls
Wow, I didn't think anyone even knew about Byron's Childe Harold's Pilgrimage. My English Lit Prof read a passage of that in 1989 and later told me that it was about me because I was a "Damned Yankee" in the South and he thought I was a rebel who was very different than the students he taught in many years. I took it as a compliments so thanks for using it on the video.
Possibly. He still needed the map plus Snoke demanded that he bring her to him though I don't think he would've let any harm come to her, possibly train her as an apprentice.
E: There are mini ones (like the great negator) that you can find. But I don't write massive ones. LOL. And this would be a LOOONNNNGGG meta! LOL. However, If there is a certain point or topic that you wish, that you heard in a podcast, let me know. :)
Again as always nice in depth video as both of you delve deep into the core of our boy Ben Solo from a psychological perspective but I want either of you opinion on this. At the top of your video you mentioned how Ben has a gentle soul and he's sensitive but not a feminine type sensitivity, but when he cares or really into something for a cause/purpose he's passionate about it but anyway after Phasma initiated the question in TFA " Sir what about the villagers? " and he hesitated a little with his response "kill them all " and after the massacre he has this long stare down with Finn or as he was named at the time FN2187 what do you think was going on in Ben's mind towards Finn and what do you think what Ben and Finn's relationship will be like in Epi.9 especially after Finn finds about his good old pal Rey force bond/connection with Ben Solo if JJ decides to play it out that way?
Malcolm Brooks thank you so much. I hate to merely refer you to a video, but here, I go. I’m lazy. Lol. But to sum it up, L and I believe that Ben felt Finn’s conflict. And as he looked upon Finn he saw someone like himself, divided. We go into great detail of this in this video: ruclips.net/video/aG1wIlM46Ds/видео.html Around 3:32 mark. I think when he saw Finn, he decided to be merciful to him. The light side won over his conscience. Yet that very act of mercy became the cause of ALL THE EFFECTS of this story. Lol.
Is it not...shall we say...interesting? The Jedi Council not trusting Anakin led to...much. Here we have Ben "triggering " much with an act of mercy. Not in line with someone who was "supposed to be" walking the path of "irredeemable" evil. That's Snoke's job and (unless they pull a trick of some kind) Snoke is dead.
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I think the whole Disney trilogy is virtually trash. But I do like Reylo. Rian Johnson's take wasn't Star Wars, a 200 meter fishing spear, a light saber hitting Rey in the head, a iron made to look like a spaceship. Also brining the Emperor back was stupid. The mystery of Snoke was a joke. Snokes over done force powers although it was the Emperor also didn't work. Making Luke look like a joke was sad! Luke could of been a great mentor to Rey... Mark could of been a successful support actor for Daisy. But Disney had to play games. Kathleen Kennedy had no idea what she's doing. Cobra Kai is the perfect example of you hire one team for the entire trilogy. A team the respects the story line. Lucas's Star Wars was serious. He went solo and succeeded. But corporate Disney were too scared to keep the seriousness. Anyhow my rant. Like yr vids and hear what women think. I am a Reylo fan... That's why I write this,. So much more could of been done. Emperor a waste, Casino Scene a waste, Star Ships running out of fuel, again a waste...
Lu: I agree they should have stayed with one writer/director throughout. It would have been way more cohesive. Thank you for liking our videos! 🙏❤ I also TOTALLY LOVE COBRA KAI!
Here's a quote from Adam Driver about TLJ's ending that really puts his character into perspective.
*Interviewer:* "Does Kylo Ren survive Episode 8?"
*Adam:* "Depends on what your definition of 'living' is."
I think this nicely reinforces your idea of Kylo Ren dying in that final moment with the dice.
I think the reason why Rey was so furious at Kylo for killing Han is that she can’t understand why someone would kill a loving parent who went back for their child. It’s the one and only thing shes ever wanted, her parents to come back for her and to love her, and she see’s Kylo get EXACTLY what she wanted ALL those lonely years on Jakku, and instead of being overjoyed Kylo murders Han. It’s just so insane to her, which it should be because she is Kylo/Ben’s mirror. He has everything she wants(family, legacy, purpose) and she has everything he wants (freedom of having no lineage, no expectations, complete agency over her own life). Honestly, I just love these movies and these character’s soooo much. I’ve NEVER come across two character’s written THIS WELL with THIS MUCH subtext and symbolism....it’s freaking amazing.
Excellent point. Yes, she would have seen him going back for Ben, risking himself to do so, and that's all she had ever wanted was for her parents to love her enough to do that for her.
I never thought that, amazing
I love these psychology studies. I can't believe the people who insist he's irredeemable and abusive. Not even close. Thank you for your work.
Thank YOU!! ❤⚔💙
This gave me a newfound appreciation for Jane Austen.
This channel is so refreshing compared to the “real fan channels” who complain about the last Jedi for the SOLE reason they thought Luke should have been some badass warrior - who isn’t who Luke is after return of the Jedi and would have been so stale
S Js EXACTLY!!! ❤️⚔️💙
It's less that people are angry that Luke isn't a warrior so much as they heavily derailed his character for no real reason at all. Besides, Luke is the man that redeemed one of the most evil men in the Star Wars galaxy. To have him even draw his saber against someone who hasn't done anything wrong yet seems more than just a little out of character.
Wait, would that be stale or a significant change?
Psychology also says that we fell in love with people who resemble our fathers or mothers (for men, their mothers; for women; their fathers). So, in this case, it’s not surprising that Ben fell for Rey because she’s in many ways like Leia: a strong, intelligent, caring and beautiful woman, Force sensitive, leader, commited to a noble cause.
Hmmm, interesting. And I think quite true in many, many cases.
Amy Unruh The same goes for Rey. Who are her father figures? Han and Luke, Ben’s father and uncle/master.
I'm a huge Jane Austen fan. When I took my nephews to see TLJ, and watched the throne room scene I started to cry. Became a Star Wars fan at that very moment. Darcy = Solo ♡
Leia is certainly responsible for Kylo's respectful attitude toward women, and possibly why he convinced himself to kill Han, who wasn't happy or satisfied as a devoted husband and longed to return to his old restless, smuggling ways. He didn't see his father as worthy or chivalrous. I'm not justifying murder, just thinking about his motivations and the way he is portrayed as a knight.
If I'm repeating things here, my apologies in advance.
Having said that here we go. Two points. Maybe another if I think of it in the course of writing.
As for Kylo Ren (Ben Solo) being a weakling. Let's roll it back shall we? I'm going to make a comparison with Ben Kenobi in Episode II. He gets a "scratch" on the arm and the leg from Count Dooku's lightsaber and he's out for the rest of the fight. Ben Solo takes a Wookie Bowcaster blast to the side and stomach. Instead of flying twenty feet through the air screaming to his death, he takes a knee for a few seconds.
Does he stay down? NO! He gets the *blank* up and goes out there to fight Finn and Rey essentially two on one (because the break between the duels was less than a minute) without the advantage of a two-bladed weapon. He wipes out Finn in less than a minute, and wipes the ground with Rey until compassion makes him offer to teach her. I guarantee that just like Ben can feel Rey's loneliness and her painful memories, he can feel her fear about what is inside her (the Force) that she doesn't understand. So he tells her at that moment the same thing Luke tells her later. "You need a teacher". The difference? Luke says: "I can't teach you." Ben says: "I could show you the ways of the Force." Take note: Ben does not mention the Dark Side to Rey as he clearly did with Lor San Tekka ("I'll show you the Dark Side.")
Now for the bit about Kylo Ren (Ben Solo) throwing Rey against the tree. Let's remember, he had just been shot minutes ago. What was he supposed to do when he saw Rey pull the pistol? Was he supposed to just stand there like an idiot and let Rey shoot him again? I think not. Beyond that, when he says: "It's just us now. Han Solo can't save you." I believe he's looking at and talking to Finn. Han didn't save Rey from anything, but Han Solo DID save Finn from getting killed by the stormtrooper that called him a traitor.
Let's go a step further though. Let's assume that when Rey pulls the pistol on Ben, Ben simply pulls it out of her hand with the Force and throws it behind him. Here's the problem with that. Right after that moment, here comes Finn with the lightsaber, running towards Ben and roaring/yelling like a screaming mad lunatic. So, while Kylo Ren (Ben Solo) is fighting Finn with a lightsaber, Rey would have had almost a full minute to go run and find the pistol and shoot Ben in the back. Knocking Rey out was Ben's only reasonable choice to get Rey out of the way long enough to deal with Finn properly while doing as little harm to Rey as was reasonably possible.
Is it me, or does the beginning part of Ben and Rey's duel look like a dance?
J. Rossi Emrys, here. Yes, I agree with all of this. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 And you’re exactly right. Combat choreography is always about the relationship between those two people. Kylo and Finn was a fight in the streets to prove who’s the better man. Kylo and Rey are definitely dancing: they even do a spin in unison. And she is responding to all of his steps. He’s leading (until Rey is empowered by the Dark to teach him a lesson). His saber was aside his body as he ignites it. I think his “weakness” for her was evident during the entire duel. He tells her to stop the entire time. His positions his sword at the outer rim of her body. The only reason he corners her is that she won’t stop.
Hi Emrys. Thanks for taking the time to write. This video is really making me think
I have to imagine that as the "grand finale" of the Skywalker family story, that there will be a climatic lightsaber duel in Episode IX. I HOPE that it involves Ben and Rey fighting together against a new opponent. IF however, we get Ben versus Rey, round two:
I hope it ends in one of two ways... Either as a "stalemate" where neither one can overpower the other (because they are equals in the Force and balance each other), or it could end with Ben overpowering Rey and forcing her down. A "flip" of the TFA, duel....but Ben refuses to kill Rey.
Either way I get a very clear image in my mind of Ben and Rey both impaling each other through the heart with their lightsabers. It's in their "last" moments that they would realize just how badly they messed up, and they would combine their power to call out to the Force itself for help. The Force would "step in" and help, essentially saying to them. "Now you see what happens when you don't listen to me. Are you ready to listen?"
I have long envisioned Ben using his power to save a dying Rey, not to put Rey "down", but to show us the inversion of Anakin. Ben would choose love instead of power, and would succeed where Anakin failed, saving the woman he loves. It would also show the antithesis of what happened to Han, with Ben saving the life of a loved one, instead of taking it.
J. Rossi I love the idea of Kylo resurrecting Rey from death. If executed correctly, it will be a powerful moment.
I hope if they duel, they will duel together, fighting Dark Side Force users. Or Ben will train Rey. Ben has so many hurdles to leap over to redeem himself to both Rey and the audience that I think him combating with violent intent, he will threaten that redemption. From a woman’s perspective, It would for me; once a man comes close to killing me, I would never trust him again. Even at his darkest, he has never intentionally hurt her, and her presence calms his rage.
That's why I don't want to see them fight (against each other) again. I don't see Ben being violent with Rey either. He'd have to literally stand there and block everything and disarm her, then give the lightsaber back. A fight between them could only end with Rey winning a second time (seen it already). I wouldn't want the same "end" in VII and IX.
There's still Armitage Hux, the General. He hates Ben and could easily make a power grab, putting Ben on trial for treason, leading to either execution or exile until Ben busts his way out of "jail" a la a lighter take on Vader in the Rogue One hallway..
In order for Ben to resurrect Rey from death, if they go that way, someone has to get her to the point of being either near death or actually dead. Ben obviously can't, shouldn't and wouldn't do it. Hux would have no problem with such a deed as far as wanting to do it. The only other opponents I could think of as of now would have to be either the Knights of Ren (if they show up) or someone we don't know yet.
Ben would all but have to train Rey now, if she was to get further training. Luke can't do it. He could talk to her as a Force Ghost, maybe, but he couldn't physically help her do anything. If Ben does "clash" with Rey again, I hope it is just as a "training session" as you suggest. It will be beyond interesting to see what they come up with.
J. Rossi indeed. And if Dark Dameron is true, he could be another threat...especially if they develop a love triangle.
I watch so many star wars video's did not releas so many were from male perspective. Love these takes on the movies. Kylo is a great character.
I agree about Pride and Prejudice. There's also a lot of parallels between Kylo/Ben and Rey and Phantom/Eric and Christine in Phantom of the Opera. Especially the book.
I don't think I've ever heard such an impassioned defense of Jane Austen. Sitting here going down the Reylo rabbit hole shouting PREACH GIRL PREACH!
Emrys: LOL! Thank you for singing in the Reylo choir with me! ;) I am a Janey and a Reylo, and I will defend----we will defend---Darcy, regardless if he wears a cravat or wields a saber. For we know the end result. ;)
I love Jane Austen, and I wish more people would know the magnitude of the imprint she left, not just in the romantic genre, but the historical socioeconimc observations that she made, without being preachy, but as a woman of and ahead of her time. I also wish people would read P & P and Bronte's Jane Eyre to understand that Reylo isn't a silly romance but one patterned off the greatest romances in literature, imo. See, ranting again... I can't help myself. LOL.
@@GirlsWithSabers For the longest time, I only knew Austen from the films of her books. When I finally got around to reading them as an adult, I was blown away by how SAVAGE she is! I also love how if you read her books in the order they were written, you can see her mature from a harsh and judgemental girl to a forgiving and compassionate woman. Her early books are more romantic but her later ones are so much kinder to the flawed parents. 💜 them all!
@@mlrafiki I love her maturity too. I think from Northanger Abbey she shows that she went through a Gothic romance phase too but Catherine was her way of discussing the thrill of The Monk to something more humanistic and blunt as Henry Tilney. I think Austen would be a Reylo myself. :) She wouldn't belittle the Cathy's and she would be patiently persuaded with the Lizzie's. :) LOL!
I am so happy to have analytical fan girls to hang out with. And can I just say that Pride and Prejudice and Zombies has one of my favorite proposal scenes because the verbal jousting that occurs is also in physical form too. I can't wait to see that TROS! Eeeeekkkkkk!
25 minutes in is breaking my heart
Ben Solo will return 🙏🏻✨💜☯️ #Reylo #Bendemption2019
I like to think of this last SW trilogy as having a Joseph Campbell "Monomyth" overlay but not just Ben's journey but also Rey's heroins' journey. The "Beauty and the Beast" / "Pride and Prejudice" protagonists love story bring this trilogy the romantic elements that tug on our hearts keeping us ever hopeful that romantic love can win no matter how bleak the conditions appear. After all, love is the best thing about human life and makes the struggle worth the the effort. Everything else pales by comparison. Thanks for your shared video & thoughts. Keep them coming!
Loved this video. Still think people are forgetting that when Ben told Rey she was nothing but not to him that he'd been made privy to her most hurtful experiences and feelings during their communion of minds on Starkiller base. He knew that she'd been told that she was nothing by none other than Unkar Plutt.
We see this exchange between Rey and Unkar Plutt in the TFA novel.
She drew herself up with as much pride as she could muster. “I am an independent operator, scavenger of the metal lands, free of debt and beholden to no one. Least of all to a small-time trader named Plutt.” “You are…you are…” The merchant tried to control himself. “You have nothing. You are nothing!” “On the contrary,” she shot back, “I just told you who I am. As to what I have, that would be my freedom and my pride.”
When it seems Ben is saying the same, it hurts her more than it did with Unkar Plutt because she cares what Ben thinks of her while she didn't of Unkar. Her expression is visibly saddened until he finishes the statement "but not to me." He was trying to assure her that he was not like all the others who had devalued her. He was being sweet but it came out sounding wrong.
Yes, exactly. It was also Rian's message to the fans, in my opinion. Just because Rey would not be important enough in their eyes because she's not from some superior lineage (which was never supposed to exist because of the Jedi code), she is important to him. She's nothing in the eyes of many in the universe. She's nothing in some fans eyes because she's not a Palpatine or a Kenobi or a Skywalker (unless they've misdirected us and Kylo on purpose, though not regarding the Skywalker line), she is important. To him, she's just as important as if she were a Palpatine or a Kenobi. Why is something like that important, anyway? Why is being from junk traders make her less worthy to be a heroine, to be a love interest, to be a Jedi? Anakin came from "nothing", (most Jedi do come from nothing) and that is exactly why I think, and hope, they will continue on with what they started and make her importance not be because of her bloodline but because of who she is. Which means that she is not nothing. She is everything.
Again another parallel to the Mr Darcy proposal.
Well said, Ladies. It's nice to hear from RUclipsrs who have intelligent insight into a great franchise. Some people think that Lucasfilm didn't have an endgame for this trilogy, but it's clear to many of us that ReyLo is definitely what they were aiming for.
Thank you so much!! ❤⚔💙
I love you ladies and this series on Kylo Ren! I’ve been binge watching the whole thing! I can’t believe I didn’t see the Batman and Kylo parallels! Now I am like duh! 😆 You have a new dedicated subscriber in me! You are preaching to the choir! I just don’t see how people see Rey and Kylo’s relationship as abusive. I love Jane Austen and am thrilled that so much was taken from P&P for this story. It’s one of my favorite love stories of all time. I’m glad JJ and Rian were also fans of Austen. I honestly am floored that people still don’t believe that Rey and Ben will end up together. Seriously what movies were those people watching??? It’s so poetic to end the Skywalker saga on a love story that is the exact opposite of Anakin and Padme. It’s honestly perfect! I can’t wait for Episode IX!
Only 3 minutes in. What I absolutely love is that after ben essentially lets Rey win, she explodes with a power he wasn’t expecting. She uses his hesitance against him and proves to him that she’s far more powerful than he thought (even though she was using his own skills). It’s done just right so that the film doesn’t accidentally portray a message that letting a woman win is fair. Ben’s hesitance cost him and proved to him that Rey wasn’t just someone with potential, she could handle herself. Absolutely fantastic imo.
Ben being attracted to her had to shake him to the core. Even if itwas the force. The whole Mr Darcy story. I'm pretty sure that Ben has not been around a long of women excess for his mother . Thanks for the video Mike another great video!
Sorry for my typing errors! Was on the treadmill.
I'm adoring your name.
Yaaaay! I celebrate whenever you girls upload a vid!!!❤💙 😂
😍😍😍❤⚔💙
I can t get enough of your videos! The points you make Judy’s flow together and continue to ignite your fans passion for this beautiful crafted story! Keep it up girls! Peace, love and Reylo♥️
😍😍😍😍😍😍
loooove your discussion about how literature and SW have similar themes. totally agree with you.
One of your best, ladies! Your enthusiasm for all things Reylo really does brighten the day. 😍
Thank you so much!
Yes!!! The Dark Knight becomes The Knight In Shining Armor!! I love it!! Another wonderful video. I love the Jane Austen Pride and Prejudice parallels you brought to light, and I love your enthusiasm!! your channel is so much fun to watch! I love being able to nerd out about Reylo and Bendeption with you! :)
Can't wait to listen to this later tonight! Will update my post with actual thinks! #reylo
AT-AT Chat looking forward to it! 💙⚔️❤️
I wish I knew the whole muted audio thing in TFA. That's wild. I never read the book. I'd agree that Kylo is an unhinged but classic gentleman. I can definitely notice that now, plus to whole cross guard thaaang
Also, the whole "please make me mean something to you" is spot on.
It's not abusive because it's not meant to hurt her. Yes it is projection, but projection doesn't negate abuse. The fact that in his fumbling way he's trying to be honest and magnanimous instead of intentionally cutting is what means it's not abuse.
Yes! Love this.
LOVE!!!!
Humble Suggestion - please create a standalone video of the proposal scene, and it has the title of (I trust you to create a better one) - If Kylo Is An Abuser, So Is Darcy. I bet that most who say that about Kylo would never dream saying that about Darcy, and you are correct - it is the same! :D :)
I thoroughly enjoy your analysis and exclamations such as "Preach it!"
I agree with much of what you said. For the sake of argument, I will contend that Star Wars is literally designed to be in the vein of the monomyth. Lucas was a student of Campbell. In a sense, Star Wars is in the very spiritual lineage of Joseph Campbell. The Heroes Journey is not just for fiction. It is a rough life blueprint that can be followed whether you are spiritual or an atheist. It is imperative that Star Wars maintains it's Heroes Journey tradition. This can of course be extended to Rey in her Goddess Journey. As long as they do that, they can add whatever English literature tropes that they want.
Awake Now oh, I so agree with you!!! It is first and foremost the monomyth. But in discussions with Star Wars fans, when in defense of this new trilogy, I (and Luthien ) brought up the infusion of the Gothic Romance and the Shakespearean Romance, those fans belittle the later’s importance . I wish they would see the beauty of the expansion.
Awake Now we are going to be discussing the monomyth soon and will diagram the characters’ journeys. And I’m so excited to do so.
Ahh in that case, I am totally on-board! I'm actually a big fan of Wuthering Heights. And I know that its a story about what happens if love becomes corrupted by obsession and greed. Kylo always reminded me of some kind of reverse Heathcliff. A Heathcliff who can redeem himself in the end alongside Rey.
And I'm super looking forward to your monomyth vid!
6:11 how did I never know this?? I would pay good money (if I had any) to hear Adam driver as ben say that to Rey. Whyyyyyyyyy JJ?! Give us the clip! Even if it’s the sound clip! Just give us this one thing!!! Lol
I’m living for the the gushing that starts at 8:13 😂 I couldn’t agree more.
Episode IX will blow everyone and everything. And the Reylo fam will lean back or scream or celebrate. Either way: #reyloiscanon
Incredible thoughts every time! Jane Eyre fans UNITE!
You guys are right when you compare Kylo to these other characters. I do believe that in his mind he is doing what is best for everyone and cannot see the damage and how destructive it is or can be.
You know, another thing is that after Rey found out about what happened between Luke and Ben she dropped all her previous judgement of him. So, in a way she is the only person who has ever looked into Ben Solo's mind and see HOPE, beside Leia but she is his mother and even she has given up more than she wants to believe. Leia probably does not know about what happened with Luke either because she would be piiiissed. But all Luke, Han and even Leia sees is the darkness and are focused on that while Rey sees hope and the light that is still inside of him and the others are extremely focused on the darkness in him that some of them are responsible for too.
It seems as if everyone is scared of the darkness inside of Ben and Rey is trying to chase the light in him. Am I the only one who thinks this?
NOPE!!! PREACH IT REYLO SISTER!!! ❤⚔💙
@ Girls with Sabers hey guys one observation that I've just now noticing from TFA. After Ben and Rey interrogation scene he goes back to Snoke to tell him about his new revelations of the scavenger he captured. From the tone of Ben's voice when he tells Snoke that, " she is strong with the Force, untrained but stronger than she knows" did he sound excited to you all because throughout both TFA & TLJ his voice is relatively low and baritone like and in that scene his voice seem to raise by an octave?
Luthien: Oh, boy was EXCITED!
@@GirlsWithSabers Nice!
He was being a bit defensive, since Snoke said, "She resisted YOU." which could account for the raised voice, but that "but stronger than she knows", the way he said it. He was so impressed by her. Soooooooo impressed. And definitely excited, too.
Great video keep up the good work!
I love you girls. You're so fun! I just had a girl respond to me on Pinterest all about how I was wrong about the romance and redemption and how there's these clues that they're related. I just had to laugh and shake my head, sad over her delusion and lack of understanding over basic story arc structure! Just insane.
Thanks for the love!! Yup. Its delusion! Lol
Yahoo! I’ve been checking in daily to see if there was a new notification from GWS. So relieved to find your latest vlog about our favorite knight. Love the cape and super hero comparison. Sooo true! 😍
Thank you Skye!! ❤⚔💙
Great video! :) You guys deserve more subs! Your videos are really interesting! ♥️♥️♥️♥️😊😊😊
Thank you so much!! ❤⚔💙
Yet another stunner! I try to do my homework and listen to your podcasts, but guess how much homework I get done? :-P That was one sweet rant, and reminded me of things I shout in my house. My husband is my Reylo twin, thank goodness, or he'd have lost his mind by now. I am also a Janey, and it is all TRUE about how we get if you come for us, lol.
And here is a quote from Roger Ebert's review of the Kiera Knightley "Pride and Prejudice" that speaks to Reylo:
"But a lot must happen before the happy ending, and I particularly admired a scene in the rain where Darcy and Lizzie have an angry argument. This argument serves two purposes: It clears up misunderstandings, and it allows both characters to see each other as the true and brave people they really are. It is not enough for them to love each other; they must also love the goodness in each other, and that is where the story's true emotion lies."
The Throne Room Proposal in a nutshell. Ben and Rey are on their way to loving the goodness in each other. May J.J. do the right thing by all of us in Episode IX!
Phoenix Ember Preach it, Sister Reylo! ☕️ ❤️⚔️💙
But....Are you really passionate about Reylo? I couldn’t tell.😉😂
Meh 😜
Would you guys be able to do a podcast on those Poe Dameron Comics those parts with Rey and discuss Damrey and Finnrey? Because people have got their heads in this mindset that Rey is gonna end up with Poe or Finn.
Yeah and Kylo and Hux are going to skip away hand in hand.
Abigail Powell Hi, we discuss these comics in this podcast: ruclips.net/video/xjFl2kK_O9U/видео.html
Let us know what you think. 💙⚔️❤️
Yeah, it's ridiculous. Those who think so (that she'll end up with Finn or Poe) know absolutely nothing of story structure, symbolism, the story arc, etc. N-O-T-H-I-N-G.
As much as I love Reylo, I can see the appeal of Finnrey and Damrey as Oscar and John are very attractive gentlemen, much like Adam. Though accord to Oscar Isaac Stormpilot was going to be cannon at one point but Disney chickened out and left it as subtext.
I always thought Ben purposely to Rey was so cringy that it was funny like I knew what he was trying to say to Rey but did it in an asshole way for him being a son of Han Solo he doesn’t know how to talk to girls
You got that right. That boy has no game. But at least he said please. 😉
True lol
Wow, I didn't think anyone even knew about Byron's Childe Harold's Pilgrimage. My English Lit Prof read a passage of that in 1989 and later told me that it was about me because I was a "Damned Yankee" in the South and he thought I was a rebel who was very different than the students he taught in many years. I took it as a compliments so thanks for using it on the video.
Great video!! loved it
Nice! "I know what I have to do."
Here here im deep in the Reylo hole and I don't care I luv this video
Thank you!
Omg love! i am sipping and downing this reylo tea or koolaid u are serving! Lol
Yay!!
That was incredible. Loved it!
Jennifer Oliver Thank you so much!
Omg, thought. What would Kylo have done if Rey didn’t wake up after Finn was defeated?!?!? Would he have kidnapped her again?!
Yes. He wanted that map.
Possibly. He still needed the map plus Snoke demanded that he bring her to him though I don't think he would've let any harm come to her, possibly train her as an apprentice.
I love the comments about the Janey's how they will bite their thumbs and take there gloves off 😹😹😹😹
I love your videos so much! Are there notes on any websites of yours that have the meta in written format?
E: There are mini ones (like the great negator) that you can find. But I don't write massive ones. LOL. And this would be a LOOONNNNGGG meta! LOL.
However, If there is a certain point or topic that you wish, that you heard in a podcast, let me know. :)
Again as always nice in depth video as both of you delve deep into the core of our boy Ben Solo from a psychological perspective but I want either of you opinion on this. At the top of your video you mentioned how Ben has a gentle soul and he's sensitive but not a feminine type sensitivity, but when he cares or really into something for a cause/purpose he's passionate about it but anyway after Phasma initiated the question in TFA " Sir what about the villagers? " and he hesitated a little with his response "kill them all " and after the massacre he has this long stare down with Finn or as he was named at the time FN2187 what do you think was going on in Ben's mind towards Finn and what do you think what Ben and Finn's relationship will be like in Epi.9 especially after Finn finds about his good old pal Rey force bond/connection with Ben Solo if JJ decides to play it out that way?
Malcolm Brooks thank you so much. I hate to merely refer you to a video, but here, I go. I’m lazy. Lol. But to sum it up, L and I believe that Ben felt Finn’s conflict. And as he looked upon Finn he saw someone like himself, divided. We go into great detail of this in this video: ruclips.net/video/aG1wIlM46Ds/видео.html
Around 3:32 mark.
I think when he saw Finn, he decided to be merciful to him. The light side won over his conscience. Yet that very act of mercy became the cause of ALL THE EFFECTS of this story. Lol.
Is it not...shall we say...interesting? The Jedi Council not trusting Anakin led to...much. Here we have Ben "triggering " much with an act of mercy. Not in line with someone who was "supposed to be" walking the path of "irredeemable" evil. That's Snoke's job and (unless they pull a trick of some kind) Snoke is dead.
He was hurt and not in complete control of his powers.
you guys are just so cute, I love this!!!
This is like sitting in my living room shooting the poo with my friends! Love you guys!
🤣👍❤⚔💙
I loved this. 😊
Tracy L Thank you so much! ❤️⚔️💙
11:47
Edna: NO CAPES!
KYLO/BEN NO IS A MAN, IS THE MAN!
I want Harrison Ford in all my commercials.
Amen, Sister Reylo. A to the Men! ;)
Darcy 😏😊😊😊😊😍