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Spoilers Ruined Dragon Ball Super's Manga. Here's Why.
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- Опубликовано: 18 авг 2024
- Dragon Ball Super Chapter 76 of the manga saw Vegeta and his Ultra Ego Form end the first act against Granolah. However, the community got divided about this arc thanks to the amount of spoilers for it. It's time to stop relying on spoilers to pass opinions on a chapter before it's released and today we wish to explain why and how this Vegeta is much better than you think. Gone is the Vegeta of old and this version is the best version ever. Dragon Ball Super Manga Spoilers shouldn't be. #DragonBallSuper #DragonBall #DragonBallZ
It's Time To STOP Relying On Spoilers...Spoilers Ruined Dragon Ball Super's Manga. Here's Why.
• Spoilers Ruined Dragon...
• Spoilers Ruined Dragon...
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Thanks for watching. Let me know what you think and whether this resonates with you.
I have been debating with myself whether to wait for the anime or start the moro saga via the manga what should I do
I would much rather rely on spoilers and read the manga online instead of paying.
See you when they start complaining again next month!
Im with you and I hate spoilers
No not in the least. He wasn't mistreated but I have yet to see Vegeta get a big win. As for being riled up... not really. I'm kinda used to dissapointment by now.
Basically:
Masako: He got the moral victory.
Fanbase: But he didn't get the punchy victory!
Masako: He got the *moral* victory though.
Fanbase: BUT NO PUNCHY!
Honestly, it's kind of nice to see a more nuanced take on Vegeta. It's rare for modern Dragon Ball to have character depth like this.
Completely agree with you. I really like Super and especially now since it tries to show a decent story, but the people that read it solely want to see certain things like characters winning a fight or their fanfiction dreams, so no wonder they get disappointed. It's not always about winning, but also Growth. Too bad the fans only care about the Punchy Punchy Victory😑
@@Matt_Underwood honestly you can see that with people that only consume battle shonen. I've noticed it with My hero academia where whenever there are no action filled chapters people calling it boring (season 4 was bad for people because of its last arc)
Which is a shame because while a battle is a valid story telling tool it's not the only one.
I like the punchy victory as much as the next guy, but sometimes a good moral victory is more important.
Vegeta had the psychological victory over Granolah, something Goku didn't manage to do. The battle came to a stalemate, but Vegeta won the mental war.
@@Gensolink Uh... yeah because mostly man children and kids want to see boom! Boom! Why do you think Michael Bay movies make so much money? Most people don't care about a good story unfortunately and not to use a "right wing" insult but these type of people are NPCs, they don't want to think, they don't want something that'll catch their attention outside of, boom! Boom! I wish more people actually cared about story and not just empty heads that'll consume anything thrown at them.
Also to curve the reaction before ANYONE mentions the, "NPC" thing; NPCs as in people who will blindly defend a product / corporation whether you're on the right OR the left. I've seen people have NPC moments. I have to put this here because I end up triggering people whenever I say, "NPC" if I'm honest.
Finally a Dragon Ball RUclipsr that's not blind to nuance. All the others I watched so far on this topic are straight up mad about chapter 76. Of course there are grounds for valid criticism, as with every work of art but most people seem to misunderstand what Vegeta is trying to accomplish here and say he's either regressing back to "Cell Saga Vegeta" or simply being stupid.
Well said MasakoX and sorry for your loss
a-ha! a-ha! Let it be said.
ForneverWorld wasn’t too mad tho
@@tiffany-chan1235 that man be posting straight click bait
Understanding the ending of the new chapter completely changed the way we understood the narrative.
Waiting til the story is over would be even better.
This has been a problem for a long while many people make huge assumptions based on spoilers and most of the time when the full chapters context is released everyone's thoughts are much harsher than usual. It's fine to talk about spoilers but don't let them alter your final thoughts on the chapter.
Yeah I always skip the spoilers whenever a Movie or Manga Chapter comes out unless it's something I know I might not read or watch. Recaps are ok but when someone is calling a chapter the worst thing ever, until they see the context it doesn't change anything. I don't care what any of the Spoiler channels said, Vegeta kicked ass this chapter. I think he was in character and he definitely showed Granola who he was acting like. Granola was acting like his Saiyan Saga self, so Vegeta showed that he wasn't that person anymore.
@@Zeromaru42 I personally like reading spoilers for this manga but I never judge the whole chapter based on them becouse spoilers many times showed only the most controversial part without any context
Instead I like to theorize what may happen in the chapter becouse I know that I'm gonna be positively surprised
Not just that. This community really does not care about spoilers. I like my surprises so I feel like I should be off the internet for a whole ten days before the chapter comes out. Its really annoying
I wholeheartedly agree with you, and I wish more dragon ball RUclipsrs talked about how spoilers are ruining the community, but too many DB youtubers rely on spoilers for views.
This was specifically the case for when it seemed like Vegeta was going to lose against Granolah by showing 2 pages of the 48 it has in total. People need to wait until they see the full chapter before rioting.
This is why previews mean nothing. Unfortunately, previews are to garner interest and the hook may be vastly different from the actual product’s premise. Depending on what the preview shows, it may doom the product despite the product being world-class.
Finally a video that addresses all our problems and help our understanding between each other thank you Masako
🎯🎯🎯
One thing I've gathered from this, on top of everything else, is that people really seem to be extremely harsh to vegeta, taking so much happiness when he loses. Even though he has changed so much, and done so much good in trying to atone for his past, willing to literally give his own life again in this chapter to shoulder the sins of his people. It really goes to show most people will never see you differently no matter how much you try to improve yourself.
Idk about that. Most people, in the west at least, seem to love Vegeta as a character.
@@EvanHBogle I think so as well tbh, I'm just going by what I've been reading in the comment sections to be fair. Which could be a vocal minority, but man it's harsh.
I have a hard time with vegetas character. One minute we see him able to admit his weaknesses, next bang Ultra Ego. Such a fitting yet disgusting transformation.
I really do like some of what he's done in this arc but the whole baiting granolah into destroying his home city was further than he needed to go.
@@McGoofy1001 I don't think it was too far, Granola is completely unreceptive to any rationale. Just talking or just fighting isn't going to work. Morally it's in the gray area though I'll give you that. As far as ultra ego is concerned, I think it was necessary to illustrate where Vegetas head is that, literally unable to access his full strength due to overthinking, guilt, and various other emotions. I can see your argument though.
@@McGoofy1001 Well, sometimes admitting that one is weak or has a problem is the first step to improve, and Vegeta has been doing that since the Freezer saga or the south america spanish dub have got wrong the character.
As a Vegeta fan, I've been loving this arc so far. People forget that Vegeta only got protagonist status in Dragon Ball Super onwards. He started as a bad guy and ended up being a loose canon until the end of Z. Dragon Ball has always been Goku's story (though Toriyama did make an effort to make it Gohan's story eventually), so to see so much focus on Vegeta is unprecedented.
And now he is slowly becoming an equal to Goku, not just in power but as a member of the Dragon Team.
and a breath of fresh air mhm mhm
@@Kruegernator123 lol equal 🤣 did we read the same chapter
@@tbcrichey goku lost by 2 blows... deal with that 😂😂😂😂
Dragon Ball has always been about teamwork and working together. Vegeta is the antithesis to that
Agreed! I don’t get why so many people include bigger youtubers be posting spoilers like 2 or 3 days before the chapter release
Tbh with how these spoilers were released, things really seemed odd.
@@Xylospring yeah, but I’m referring to how people be posting rough draft spoilers every month of the chapters instead of waiting for the official release
Facts its annoying
Because they want to document it and spread the word of it for people who care about the drafts? Or should we all just ignore any spoiler for any media period?
I don't mind them discussing it in videos if they warn about it but putting it in BIG CAPS in the title and thumbnail is just straight disrespectful.
I've Grown to respect you even more after your review on this Chapter, even guys like Geekdom made a mess of his review and was blinded by his bias and I'm glad you didn't do that, and analyzed this chapter properly.
Well Review is a form of expressing your subjective opinion. While geekdom Review are biased it still shows more or less to what is he's paing attention. It's funny to me when he misses some stuff but ultimatly it's from his point of View. And oh boy in last chapter he misses a lot.
@@dark-xh7fs Yh I understand what you mean, but this one was BAD, it was REALLY REALLY BAD
Yeah I’ve stopped watching Geekdom in part due to that.
@@nejthegreat yeah it was this bad. It was so bad that almost make me laugh. Still it is his right to decide of what quality content he produces. Tbh when it comes to manga most of his Reviews are Worse than the rest of his videos.
Didn’t that guy say he would drop dragonball if he could make more money off of something else? I don’t see what ppl see in that guy. I tried watching his stuff but I got fake vibes off of him. He seems not the best person to put it kindly.
The vitriol and knee-jerk reactiveness of the fanbase is staggering. Some people just wanna be mad, idk. Me, I'm over here, heart full to bursting with the fact that my favorite fictional character of all time, who has been around as long as I have, is still growing as a person and making me proud to have been in his corner all these years. I LOVE what Super is doing, and now more than ever I appreciate the fact that this channel is one of the strongest bastions of level-headedness and respect in the entire fandom.
I feel the same way. I love the character development Vegeta is going through. He's honestly the most interesting character of super.
I really like Vegeta facing the past of his race and not liking what he see. That he actually feel guilt and no amount of good deeds will ever reverse the evil he has done and he must live with that. That's why this arc is great.
There's also something to be said about how the community is SO obsessed with wanting Vegeta to get a win, that just ONE panel of him taking a hit is enough to make some people go "THIS IS THE WORST ARC! THEY RUINED VEGETA!!!"
Like...jeez...Vegeta doesn't need to murder every main villain on sight to be a good character. He's already gotten plently of spotlight in this and the previous arc.
PREACH
There's more to do but it needs to be more about his personality maturing.
@@MasakoX If anything, Vegeta's single-minded goal of being the strongest is something that he needs to grow out of, that he's already kinda grown out of.
I think Vegeta's end point won't be becoming "THE STRONGEST SAIYAN" but a true team player, an assist (like it happened in the fight with Moro), someone who fights ALONGSIDE Goku instead of pushing him away to prove himself.
Goku and Vegeta as fighters are stronger TOGETHER. They both have unique powers and fighting styles that make up for the other's weaknesses. They're both number 1.
Goku wouldn't have been able to get the win over Moro without the help of Vegeta, Grand Supreme Kai and Uub anyway. It was a collaborative win, just like it was over Super Perfect Cell and Kid Buu.
@@matti.8465 I think Vegeta has already grown out of that mindset too. Remember in Chapter 74, where he talked about how strength is just a benchmark, and it can always change? He accepted that Goku is an extremely talented fighter and is better than him in many ways. However, he still hasn't given up and it more interested in challenging Goku under a friendly rivalry, rather than a bitter rivalry like it was in Z.
Vegeta is sort of becoming like Goku in the way of testing his own limits and breaking them altogether. He does it in a more Saiyan-like way, but still very similar. Goku and Vegeta are now complimenting each other instead of being stark contrasts to each other.
My thing with spoilers is this; If I don’t really care about a work of fiction, I don’t mind spoilers. It gives me a _decent_ idea of how a story works. And if I ever decide to watch it, I’ll see how the theme works differently between word of mouth and actually watching it. I’m not learned enough to know how literature works, so my opinions on works can change drastically when I watch a review after watching the source.
For me, much like with works of fiction, spoilers can be helpful, so long as they’re handled properly.
By spoilers they mean Releasing information before the chapter actually comes out
@@sweenhoe10 I know. It’s basically “Next time, on Dragon Ball Super”.
Speaking in general. I get more pissed at major spoilers than minor ones. Like i shouldn't know who dies if i'm watching the series or not as an example.
It in a way ruins the surprise and in some cases ruins the series for others. Gives you incomplete information and potentionally gives you the wrong understanding Dragonball or not.
That being said dragonball is one of the few series i really could not care about being spoiled on.People do it even before you can get a chance to read the dang thing on the same day especially on youtube since forever(it's honestly gotten worse though as people just blatantly put the major spoiler in the title)
Vegeta: *stubs his toe*
Fans: ARE YOU KIDDING ME VEGETA LOSES AGAIN????
That's low-key on point 💀
sasuke: AH! MY CHAKRA
naruto: you could absord with rinnegan... i can give you mine without using rinne...
sasuke: I'M OUT OF CHAKRA!
Beautiful, sir. I've always held an appreciation for Vegeta's character development, but my opinion on him has been twenty years in the making. You've provided a thorough analysis on Super's depiction in under a week that's nonetheless accurate and, while I had my doubts on Super's direction, you've brought me around to it. To be fair, I've lightened my stance over the past few weeks, thinking about how we've seen how he deals with things and what logical directions you could take - Z dealt with Vegeta's present and future, so it's actually interesting to see Super, where he's had a bit too much time to think on how far he's come.
While I love Vegeta as a character (hell, I wrote my own essay on his development throughout Z for a class at college), this is a much more in-depth analysis than I'd have been able to come up with, and from a man more typically associated with Goku, no less. Fascinating stuff you've got here.
That all being said, I feel like you could add something about that to the video title, because this was about much more than just reliance on spoilers, though I do agree entirely on your points in that regard as well.
I swear, it feels like sometimes Masako is the only DB RUclipsr who actually understands this story in its entirety.
I'm happy I'm not the only one who feels that way
Him, TotallyNotMark, and Geeks4Fun are the only ones who appear to value good storytelling above punchy-punchies.
Gotta admit, it sure seems like he's the only one not operating under any major bias.
Idk, that CourtJester guy seems to be pretty on the ball 😏
Thank you for this Masako, this in depth discussion is what’s desperately needed in the Dragon Ball community, not constant bickering and fighting. And your personal insight into Vegeta’s character through your own experiences was really touching.
It's sad that some people only like Dragon Ball for the fight sequences instead of just for a simplistic and entertaining story to enjoy.
@@Kruegernator123 yes, Dragon Ball hasn’t always been about “punch-punch, fight-fight, Goku wins, move to the next threat”. It’s been able to tell some pretty effective stories when written well. And while I will definitely admit DBS is not near as good as DBZ or even original Dragon Ball, it’s very capable of telling great stories. DBS Broly, the Moro Arc and this current arc are some the best examples. DBS’ story telling has vastly improved from it’s beginning.
This chapter turned out to be pretty Awesome.
thank you!!! spoilers can a fun way to anticipate the chapter if you take them with a grain of salt but it’s so aggravating to see people form their opinions without reading the chapter in full.
Oh my god!! My comment is in this video! I'm so glad you made a video on people's rushed reactions to this chapter!! Love your stuff Masako!
Never let anyone tell YOU how YOU should feel about this chapter, DBS as a whole or DB.
Eh, its also the cruse of the Internet. It thrives on sensationalism.
I've really enjoy Vegeta's character development in the Moro and Granolah arcs thus far. He's always been an awesome badass, but maturing by acknowledging one's past mistakes and trying to atone for them, AND trying to prevent someone else from making similar mistakes? That's a whole different level of badass that Vegeta's striving for and he deserves respect for it.
Masako it was really nice hearing you open up for a little there...
I just want you to know. I genuinely appreciate you. Just know we will always be here for you! Much love my man.
I haven't been looking at spoilers because looking at them makes me feel bad. Not trying to virtue signal here but seriously they just make me feel worse. Because it's incomplete most of the time. I'd rather wait. That's just me though. If you do want spoilers, go for it. I'm not gonna be judging.
I’ve unfollowed nearly all dragon ball pages and youtubers just because I’m so sick of spoilers.
Looking at you, Saiyan Scholar.
Like, Vegeta still got the moral win and honestly that says more about his character than punching Granola to submission. Even then, he drove Granola to use a suicide attack, so technically he won both ways. Think of it this way: Vegeta says he’ll surpass Goku in his *own* way. Now, what Goku does is punch the enemy and lets them regret their life choices so that they go to the good side, what if Vegeta’s way of winning is to prove the opponent wrong instead of having them figure it out? He’s more no-nonsense, he’ll tell them like it is and will let them know it, where Goku will wait for them to be like “EFF YOU!….okay yeah you’re right.” Vegeta doesn’t have to K.O. them to win, same with Goku, the point of Dragon Ball is becoming a better person and improving yourself, not disintegrating their soul, and that’s what people who criticize Dragon Ball (and ESPECIALLY Dragon Ball Super) seem to forget.
Edit: Guys, calm down, Saiyan Scholar isn’t so bad that I’d consider him the worst DB RUclipsr or anything. Yes, he makes a whole untrue narrative that Super is the worst thing to come out of Dragon Ball. And yes, I’d go as far as to say that he didn’t give any meaningful criticism about this chapter and a few of the ones before it. Hell, he even admits that he’s doing this so he doesn’t “hop on the bandwagon” (meaning he likely just wants a different opinion to feel interesting). But he doesn’t deserve any hate, he’s got his own opinions and viewpoints and so do I. And while I’m not a fan of the fact he talks down to people who disagree with him, at the end of the day it’s just a passionate fan talking about the series he’s most passionate about. I’m just not a fan of how he does it, plain and simple.
Finally someone said
Saiyan scholar is bad dragon ball RUclipsr
He doesn’t care about good thing in dbs
He only cares about dragon ball gt
Couldn't have put it better myself.
@@sgdkvgt7201 I swear he's so fake.
He made a video saying he wants all the negativity to stop in the dragon ball community and guess what happened after that video.
@@theyultamentui4156 after that video
He will make video “ something bad about dragon ball super “
And after negative video about dbs .He will make “ everything good about dragon ball gt “
It's nice to see other big RUclipsrs, not fall into the Draft page and early spoilers panels and summaries, usually taken OUT OF CONTEXT!
HOWEVER Lots of RUclipsrs and Social Media figures, who carry much weight in the direction of the quality and discussion in our favorite pop culture idols and series, confuse "reaction" with "reviews and analysis" mainly due to first spoilers impressions imo.
Unfortunately, most of the criticism DB youtubers have, is honestly....surface level misunderstandings of the core cultural lens(i.e Eastern Philosophy)
Dragon Ball is a multi-faceted piece of work, that references other pieces of works, whether fiction(journey to the west) or nonfiction(philosophy of martial arts)
the "cultural lens" You should be using is that i listed above, because that perspective, represents the cultural history and attitudes of the intended audience.
Vegetas character is the current viral topic of contention, same with Goku, and most people feel there is a bit of character regression. I disagree!
on the surface it looks like it(Vegeta literally reverting back to his old dbz self) however when you use the in text dialogue from this chapter, and source material and influences(Daoism, Buddhism, Shintoism and Confucianism) You will find that Vegeta did not regress.
Again, looking through this Eastern Buddhist-Daoist lens, the world of DB is loosely based around elements of Buddhism and Daoism.
Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego represent a duality of both Goku and Vegetas character personalities, and shortcomings, they also represent the daoist substance and cosmic Yin and Yang
Ultra Instinct is based around Mushin no Shin and "Sunyata"(basically emptiness, because in the East, emptiness is the mode and means of achieving enlightenment and sagehood.
Gokus progression of using and obtaining the technique of Ultra Instinct was progression in and of itself.
ultimately leading into the actual means of the trigger, as beautifully put by Merus "It will activate when you resist a jawing shock to your emotions" what that may be referring to, is a Daoist concept of correct behavior called "Wu Wei" (("effortless action" or "action without intent or simply "do nothing"
and you know the rest,
as for Vegeta, Beerus explains that to use the powers of a destroyer, you must think on nothing but destruction. Before that, you must first empty your mind and clear it of all attachments and feelings, Vegeta tried to do that, by placing himself in a situation of danger(near death experience) and by reverting to his old self(one who did not have a family and did not care about anything.) This would also fair, because he couldn't quite let go of his guilt of what the Saiyans did to Granolah and the Cerealieans, hence why he was steadfast in letting himself be destroyed by Granolah (who is also mirroring Vegetas turmoil). He has evolved so much, that he can't go back to that old way(even if it was a illusion).
he thought he could start from there and then recreate himself...this was not the case, BECAUSE, Vegeta NEVER WAS THAT PERSON!
That was who Frieza and the new ways of the Saiyan upbringing, did to him and so many others.(The Saiyans had lost their ways, since Yamoshi, and the good hearted saiyans)
Vegeta didn't understand what Beerus meant, it was a MISUNDERSTANDING.
Vegeta isn't meant to revert back to his early self, it's meant to move beyond that, a synthesis into something new.
That's why UE was ineffective narratively. He is still fells guilty, so it's incomplete
It's a misunderstanding because he thought that by reverting to his old self, that he could then start there and recreate, but that's wrong.
This whole "old self" was just one trigger into a destroyer mindset(it's like the whole near death trigger for UI)
The God Techniques are meant to represent the dualistic monism of Daoism.
By that I mean, archetypal Yin and Yang.
Destroyers embody Yin, and chaos, free from attachment and judgement, but intrinsically linked to it's opposite tension, Yang, which the angels can represent
Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego are mirrors of those tensions of opposites, both in personality and form.
In Vegetas case, his quest and journey had been to realize his "De" or his true self(which is where UE is going)
From a Daoist perspective, human de is "qing"(tranquility, balance, stillness) which easily represents Goku, and the Earthling way of Martial Arts(Turtle school)
Vegeta gets his "de" from combat and combat alone, and the joy and pleasure you get from battle
The most important of these concepts are (1) the continuity between nature and human beings, or the interaction between the world and human society; (2) the rhythm of constant flux and transformation in the universe and the return or reversion of all things to the Dao from which they emerged; and (3) the worship of ancestors, the cult of heaven, and the divine nature of the sovereign.
essential characteristic that governs the Dao is spontaneity (ziran) ("primordial state" of all things), the what-is-so-of-itself, the self-so, the unconditioned. The Dao, in turn, governs the cosmos: “The ways of heaven are conditioned by those of the Dao, and the ways of Dao by the Self-so.”
The human being is a microcosm (small world) corresponding rigorously to this macrocosm (large world); the body reproduces the plan of the cosmos. Between humans and the world there exists a system of correspondences and participations
Daoist sages who practice "wuwei" live out of their original nature before it was tampered with by knowledge and restricted by morality, in Vegetas case, his nature was always tampered by other forces in society(Frieza, Saiyan barbarisms and Elitism, etc) he was always a canvas painted by others or a carved piece of wood. the point is to return to the his original nature(de) using buddhist-daoist emptiness(Sunyata) and Spontaneity .
Banger comment
@@punchy__ii4042 on broooo💯 this is how we should’ve been viewing dragon ball
@MaestroEpicLoser Yep!
As much as I agree with you, people can't realistically know any of this.
@@SneakyHuntingHT The intended audience has a general understanding of it tho. By that, I mean the East Asian Audiences, Journey to the West (which is literally a story about Eastern Philosophy and Enlightenment.)
People like us, are foreigners and so in that regard, you would be correct.
Lots of this stuff, is just a simple Google search etc. I see what you mean tho.
Super has gotten a lot of hate and people are just looking for reasons to hate it. What's worse are the people spoiling, jumping to conclusions and hating Super for content.
But Masako, you know there's always that one RUclipsr that has to ruin everything.
Preach! I'm sick and tired of hoping on Twitter and getting a glimpse of spoilers. Spoilers i don't want to see and just wait for the manga while building up my own thoughts & theories of upcoming chapters
Very interesting perspective. I thoroughly enjoyed your insight.
Though I don't 100% agree, did rather enjoy this more postive/optimistic look on things. Particularly liked the point you made about Goku getting in the way and how he can't relate to Granolah on the same level as Vegeta.
Those who think for themselves are bound to have unique opinion. Not the attitude of "lot of people share a certain opinion so I am going to be a blind fan who will agree with their pov".
@@phoenixj1299 what are you even talking about dude? This wasn't supposed to be some crazy hot take or "unique opinion." Was just acknowledging while I may not entirely agree, he still made good points. Having a different opinion doesn't mean you need to start some type of argument, debate, or discussion. Contrary to popular belief you can respectfully disagree with someone on the internet.
This makes sense, thank you for breaking this down for those who doesn't get "why?". I understood from jump, a lot people don't get that Vegeta has a history and a legacy to uphold.
Agreed. Spoilers spoil the story and, because it’s not in context, it colors our expectations.
*Colours, sorry. ;)
Keep it up Masako. Hit em with the facts.
Never rely on spoilers
Even trailers
That's right. Nowadays whenever an upcoming movie or video game trailer releases, I just watch the the FIRST-two trailers and that's it. I refuse to watch the third, fourth, final and even the accolades trailers because they end up revealing too much afterwards.
You can make some judgements based on trailers, as long as you're aware that you lack a significant amount of context and, in the case of stuff like videogame trailers, what you see might be subject to change.
I agree with that title. I've seen people being SO mad over the spoilers and I'm tired of it. We all should have at least some patience. We have to look at the full picture first and then you can judge and speak your opinion.
"Wait until it comes out before you clamor about it."
This is me every time a movie/series/game/project gets announced/gets a trailer and people already say that it sucks. This is really problematic.
While I agree to an extent, I think that withe videogames in terms of gameplay it's a different case. Gameplay is the actual experience, so much of it doesn't tend to get leaked, instead showcased and put up as demos to play prior to release to entice the buyer in purchasing the game. Stories on the other hand can't be spoiled, so most of it needs to be kept under wraps as it would ruin the entire experience, as opposed to gameplay where much of the enjoyment is about playing the game itself.
I also think that a game has more to loose as because it's a piece of maleavuable software, companies can trick buyers by showcasing trailers with advanced builds of the games making them think it's going to look better than the final product (Aliens Colonial Marines, Watchdogs, Cyberpunk,etc) whereas story driven pieces of media like comic books, movies or manga look the same. It's really the plot points that can be miscontrued into something that it's not by rampant theory crafter.
So it's really a case of apples and oranges in my opinion.
@@Fractorification I get what you mean and I can't say that you're wrong.
But still, people really need to give the thing a chance before claiming it sucks (or in some case, is good).
i waited for the last of us 2 to come out while completely avoiding any sort of spoilers and bought the deluxe edition on release
safe to say, i regretted it… a lot… could have saved myself a whole $70 if i had looked at information on it beforehand
It isn't the same thing though. A spoiler is out of context and a leak, a trailer is something official created by the producers to convince people to buy their product. So while people still needs to consider every aspect, judging something by its trailer is correct.
Sometimes fanbases are the worst. I always go in with the attitude look for what I like more than what I don't. For everything I don't like look for atleast two good things. Sometimes it hard.
“but Masako...”
“Since when is your content so mature and so responsible making me evaluate my actions and/or choices in life?” “UN-SUB-SCRIBE”!?! 🤣
Seriously: Thank You for sharing your insight & perspective. As the Saiya-Jins continue to level up, we, as humans, can also evolve to transform our minds, spirits & bodies into better ones for others; especially for ourselves.
Black Scape YT and Unrealentgaming YT need to hear this as well.
Unrealentgaming does show spoilers, but he isn’t as judgmental about it and usually leaves the theorizing up to the comments first, and then later gives his own thoughts, but I do agree.
When I hear about Dragon Ball spoilers I always have only 1 image pop into my mind. That skit from DBZA with the planet of fortune tellers. I don't remember their names.
Edit: Kanassans
"I can see the Future! Bulma and Vegeta have a Kid! Gohan is the strongest but still doesn't do crap!" Yeah technically right but only taking one standpoint on it and excluding all the context. Just like all the Spoilers do. That scene really aged like fine wine didn't it?
Well, you and mastar media changed my mind about the whole "giilt" thing and thanks for that. (Also i will try stay away from spoilers or not let them change my mind) and i think no, i BET your dad is proud of you of what you do with your life rn and what you accomplished.
Thanks again mr masakoX. ❤🙏
"Let's respectfully agree to disagree." - MasakoX
We need more of this understanding and mindset nowadays, more than ever before.
So I say thank you for your kind words towards the end and also to the bit with your father.
While I can't say the same about mine, I definitely sent this for a acquaintance who I believe might make good use of your story.
Again, thank you for being awesome.
Speaking as a Vegeta fan, I too am fed up with people getting mad about Vegeta losing. Their wouldn't be much of a story if Vegeta won all the time.
Except that's not what people are asking for... they're asking for a big win for him for once.
@@Darthvegeta8000 What do you mean? He beat Toppo in the Tournament of Power, that was a massive win. He even unlocked a new form that Goku didn't get in the process.
@@kingp260 But he wasn't the main antagonist, which is why people are tripping. You need to either enjoy the story for what it is, or don't, not come up with your own version and then be mad when the official version doesn't line up with what was in your head.
I barely consider it a "loss" on Vegeta's part too. Goku was on the losing front as well. Heck, he already got sniped by Granolah while fooling around with using Ultra Instinct in base, wasting one of their Senzus. Then he let his guard down by trying to redeem Granolah in the same way he did to Moro (which got him knocked out again). Lastly, Goku took another heavy beating from Granolah and didn't stand a chance against him in Super Saiyan Blue despite figuring out the opening in his technique.
@@LupineShadowOmega I would say Vegeta has had his own wins against a main antagonist before. He defeated Golden Frieza (where Goku let his guard down) and Goku Black (despite taking a few losses by the latter).
I have to say this latest Arc...it's some of the best DB i've read in years! I've managed to avoid spoilers mostly and it's all the better for it.
Vegeta's growth has always been the core of what kept him relevant against power creep. The really can't stop, nor should they.
I can't believe that we finally got some nice depth to characters and the story itself and... people are mad?! In contrast to what most people say I really like the Dragonball fandom but this is just weird. As a Vegeta fan I loved this chapter and yes I see the flaws but I enjoyed the way Vegeta handles the interaction with Granolah.
At this point I avoid spoilers like my life depends on it. I go so far as to unsub from channels that cover spoilers in case their video thumbnails or titles contain any. I do resub back to them when the chapter comes out, but the internet isn't your friend when it comes to avoiding spoilers.
Wow, great video man, I appreciate you sharing your own experiences as a wayto analize and understand Vegeta's choices in this, thanks!
Man, I love this channel. This video really resonated with me.. Thank you Masako 🙏
Thank you for this masako.
As for the roots on "Journey to the West", I tend to associate Vegeta with the violent side of the original Sun Wukong: the pride one, hungry for battle as opposed with Goku's childish side of Wukong.
Sun Wukong matured as a character, learned humbleness, became enlightened by sparing enemies. I like this advance on Vegeta. SPARE an enemy, to have the moral victory, rather than a power one.
This is why I loathe this theory culture in fandom perpetuated by channels like Game Theory and whatnot. Everyone over-analyzes any bit of spoilers that they get ahold of and craft a whole different narrative in their heads, then they get upset when it's not what they thought it would be. Granted, sometimes fans can come up with better plotlines themselves as you have proven yourself in your "What if?" Masako, but it's gotten to a point where it's getting outright toxic and theories and treated as _law_ .
When there was no internet back in the day we simply enjoyed media as it came along and only in hindsight we'd look at it through a more critical lens with 0 expectations to mitigate any irrational anger.
Game Theory is a bad example. Mat Pat knows that he overanalyzes things and jokes about it constantly. He also knows he's had bad theories in the past. Take the infamous Ness theory, for example. He still pokes fun at it, though.
I think the release schedule of a manga or anime can make or break a series too. Toyotaro having a monthly chapter release for Super instead of a weekly release like Toriyama did with Z causes a lot of overanalysis among fans.
Even fan mangas like Dragon Ball Multiverse suffer from this, since each page comes out every 3 days and it causes a lot of pacing issues too.
@@Kruegernator123 What can feel like a vacuum in terms of Dragonball content doesn't help, either. If people have the chance to see early spoilers for a manga chapter, they'll damn well take the opportunity and analyze it to hell and back.
@@SneakyHuntingHT You're not wrong, but I suppose I blame GT in the sense that it encouraged and perpetuated this theory culture. It's the other theory channels that admittedly take it too far. I still enjoy MatPat from time to time as I know he doesn't take his theories seriously.
I like the direction they have Vegeta going. I'm not quite there yet myself but maybe I can mimic attitude towards criticism a little better now. Also for what its worth although who am I to say I am sure your father would quite proud.
Thanks Masako for your insight it's good to see and hear actual reason instead of idiocy.
Good video masako. Loved this
Oh Lawrence, I had no idea. I'm so glad you got that opportunity with your dad.
I avoid the spoilers at all costs and almost jumped off my bed when I saw the Bardock revelation.
This chapter was great, loved every moment of vegeta
MasakoX I just want to say I understand how you feel when comes to losing your father, I lost my father at a very young age and I have always felt like there was something more I could’ve done when it came to him but I was kid so there wasn’t much.
I’ve been watching your channel for quite some time and always loved it and I know this video was about dragon ball and spoilers and vegeta but what you said caught me off guard, so thank you for sharing that bit of info about yourself it has made me a bigger fan knowing we have something in common other than dragonball I hope you see this keep up the good work.
This is my 1st time on your channel and I admit I'm blown away! This is how it should be done! Great job man, great job!
You're the best Dragon Ball channel Masako.
Amazing analysis about why Vegeta backwards thinking makes sense.
Geekdom, Saiyan Scholar and Kaggyfilms: No.
All of them suck
People make assumptions too quickly. As this Ark goes on, we've had Vegeta basicly put his sins and past truely to bed. This is where Vegeta will get his win, not through a fight, but though going through what he could have become with Grahnola.
It's funny, because I got spoiled by the title of a video of yours since you published it before the Jump app released the episode lol
I'm glad i'm not tapped into spoilers for manga in general. It really does take away from the enjoyment.
Damn this really got emotional 🤧
Thanks for breaking it all down like this.
10:26 And honestly, that's what separates Goku from Vegeta and Future Trunks. Outside of Grandpa Gohan, Goku has never experienced true permanent loss the way they both have. Every time Goku has or would've experienced loss, it was always able to be undone in some way by the dragon balls or Whis. And because of that, Goku has grown incredibly careless throughout the years, and in some ways, rather heartless (if his cavalier attitude in the T.O.P. Saga is anything to go by). After all, why take a whole lot of things seriously when you have this reassurance that everything will just turn out fine in the end anyway? We all know Goku's not a bad guy, but these traits ultimately make him come off as more callous and unempathetic than he really is.
Thank you Masako. I hate spoilers, and I've had to avoid most of DB RUclips just to not have chapters spoiled. I wish some DB RUclipsrs would be more responsible about putting spoiler images in their thumbnails.
This is wat i meant when i said that most utubers missed the mark. They kept on using the word regression this n that, slander characters etc. But as we all know, dbfans prefer contents like those. Keep it up man.
This is an excellent point of view 👏🏾👏🏾
Good talking points and thank you for telling story about your pops it's similar to mine
thank you for expressing this problem. I was tired of people disrespecting and hating this chapter and particularly this arc's vegeta.
Fantastic video.
You know this actually had me thinking. Now it can be summed up that it was an anime only element, Vegeta’s aura was purple in his first intro to the series and became white over time (again a knod to the animators choice for this color). As I thought about it, this change could reflect Vegeta’s growth. I liked how it turned out and saw Vegeta playing chess. He saw his majin self in Granolah if that makes sense (as more of the want of power to quell is own catharsis). On top of that I think the need to keep a fight going as a mindless fighting machine that kind of taken into consideration since Goku almost messed it up.
The aura thing is a strech. The series hasn't been the best at keeping consistent coloration for auras and attacks at times.
OMG exactly! Nobody listens to me lol. They keep putting it on “it’s all about using Ultra Ego properly” well maybe a little bit. But did you forget about…narrative?
I am glad I am not alone in seeing this. People seem to forget this chapter doesn’t stand alone, and Dragon Ball is more about just winning by fighting.
You've honestly been the only DB youtuber that I've watched. And judging by the comments, I'm glad that is the case. The DB community is huge and is very susceptible to bad takes. Thank you for continuing to make quality content.
There are a few youtubers in the Dragon Ball community that put nothing but spoilers as their thumbnail and i personally find it annoying. Im glad you dont! 🙌🏽
thank you for this video. Hope the people who just hate on this chapter without understanding the whole picture change their minds after seeing this.
The best way to stop spoilers is to not spread them. If you see something on Twitter, don't retweet it. Don't post it on other websites. Don't post it on RUclips. Just ignore them. If you see someone posting spoilers on RUclips, then don't click on the video. Don't give them more views.
That's good point. But some jerks place spoiler alredy in video title. That's some kind of clickbait that really make me angry.
@@dark-xh7fs unfortunately, yeah. But whenever I do come across stuff like that, I usually right click next to the video and select "do not recommend", and eventually the stupid algorithm will catch on and stop recommending videos like that.
I think the saddest part of all this is that this narrative won't be acknowledged. It makes sense, its empathetic but it's something that I feel, won't be told and more largely won't be understood because Dragon Ball is primarily seen as the "fighty fighty anime"
MasakoX the goat here speaking facts
You know what I like the most about this channel? It's the fact that you're always willing to to be kind and polite and that is so hard to find in this community.
i only started reading spoilers because ive lost faith in the manga, but cared enough to want to be a part of ongoing discussion. That was only when Ultra Ego was revealed though, as i wasnt a big fan of the design then or now.
More importantly, it felt like the transformation showed up too soon, like it was gonna be a Perfect Cell and Super Vegeta scenario all over again.
That was a premature judgement, and september's chapter has more or less restored my faith in their handling of Vegeta. So yeah, I'll go back to ignoring spoilers like usual
"Right! Yes! Right!" That's what I've been saying through the entirety of this video. This chapter has increased my love for Vegeta's character a lot. He being the dynamic foil character to Goku makes him the perfect one on whom to test deeper, more emotional story-telling, and I think it was not only a smart move by the triple Ts but also an enjoyable move.
And also, Masako, I appreciate your candidness in drawing parallels to your own experience of great loss. It really hits home why narratives affect us so much: they reflect reality. I know the pain and grief of losing a parent, as well, and as you related that I really empathize, both with you and with the characters. Blessings to you. You're doing great work out here!
Masenko X needs to work at the actual dragon ball series
he not only understands things in the story that we don't but he translates it well
I haven't seen the manga itself yet but in this night in this hour in this minute in this second
I think like this
Hey Masako, when is your next rount table stream? I have a what if suggestion I'd love to see you take!
It'll be this Friday
@@MasakoX yuss!!
It's kinda like what Blackbeard said in One Piece:
When you aim high, you find out there's some fights that just aren't worth fighting.
I think that's the premise you got with in terms of Vegeta vs Granolah in terms of him ultimately abstaining.
Or in another case, he's similar to the Ghost of Christmas Yet To Be. Showing the bounty hunter what he could become once he saw the Sugarians cower in front of him.
Finally...someone *had to say it* . I agreed with everything you said in this video and I'm looking forward to more!
Spoilers suck
NO 💩!!!!! 🤷🏽♂️
Awesome discussion Masako! Grant it, I'm currently only able to rely on videos like yours to find out what's going on in the DBS manga, but I really like the direction they're taking Vegeta in, this feels like we're finally heading towards end of Z and post Z (which they'll more than likely go past Z at that point) Vegeta. It just goes to show you that there's more to the story than just "punch the guy REALLY hard"!
God bless you masako sorry for your loss glad you got to say goodbye on a positive note great videos man I like you detailed analysis keep it up vegeta Vs gas let's goooo
I admit I was wrong and my mind has been changed. You’re 110% right. Thanks for that
I wish most DB RUclipsrs had the same attitude as you man
I recently dropped some channels because they got a bit too spoilery in regards to MHA, my current favorite series.
Spoilers didn't used to bother me, and still don't for the most part, but even I have my limits.
I think to add to your comment about Vegeta is the last of his culture essentially would be he's also the Prince. He's feeling the weight of all of the things his people did and were forced to do willingly or otherwise. Heavy is the head that wears the crown as they say.
Vegeta has realized that in living a now mostly peaceful life that what his people did in the past had done to the people they conquered doing the same thing. They took peace and happiness from people all to satiate their blood lust. Something he now fights to protect. Something he never experienced before.
I think the comic Invincible and the Viltrimites could be a lesson in "what if" Vegeta still harbored his old ways (Omniman) and the saiyans were still around. Reading that comic always gave me Dragon Ball vibes.