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Vegeta Is Destined To Fail...
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- Опубликовано: 23 июн 2021
- Over the years in #DragonBall and now in #DragonBallSuper , the problem with Vegeta has been that of him being overshadowed by Goku. However, that isn't the main thing we are talking about today. Vegeta has changed since the days of #DragonBallZ , very much for the better...but is he changing fast enough? To get to the prince of all Saiyans that we see at the end of Dragon Ball, in Episode 289? Today let's discuss the main concerns we have of the character as well as the things we admire about him, that makes him stand out from Goku as we go into Dragon Ball Super manga Chapter 73 and Chapter 74. Dragon Ball Super Chapter 74!
The Problem With Vegeta
• Vegeta Is Destined To ...
• Vegeta Is Destined To ...
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Now the initial problem with Vegeta was that his place in the initial Dragon Team...was very VERY temporary. Back in the day, when Vegeta was first seen in the Dragon Ball Z manga, back in Chapter 204, he was being framed as the first big bad. Raditz had merely been the taster of this particular meal...and that was a very substantial taster already; what with him being the, oh I don't know, BROTHER OF THE MAIN CHARACTER. No biggie, really. After all this blowing out of narrative doors, Vegeta's place had to make an impact after these massive revelations concerning the plot of the story. The only way you could do it...was to make him HORRIBLE. EVIL. PURE EVIL. Raditz would have to be a weakling in contrast in order for the prince to mark himself in his own right; and sure enough, that's exactly what happened!
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Hello
Vegeta is vegetables.😶
I thought it was goku vs frieza as best
What vegeta needs is a major win over a main villian and not akrias pet boi kakarot
I had an in depth response here, which Google's AI shadow blocked... So then I broke it up into pieces and proceeded to post each part with edits until it got past Google's censorship AI. Google's AI then quietly deleted everything I posted a few minutes afterwards.
Can we please elect politicians that are going to start breaking up these massive corporations, please? I miss when I was able to speak freely on the internet. It's especially frustrating when people can't even see that I'm being censored, so nobody even knows it's going on.
I'm sorry to do this here, but people need to be aware of what's going on. Everyone reading this is probably being censored by the AI too and don't even know it's happening.
In the Buu Saga the "M" on Vegeta's forehead stood for Mid-life Crisis.
Hahahahhaa
Judging from his voice, Vegeta has been smoking 8 packs a day his entire life, which would explain why he is not as powerful as Goku. He simply has lung cancer and can't scream long enough to power up completely.
🤣
My smoking problem is a disease sasuke!
🤣🤣🤣
Which also gives Naruto an edge over Vegeta because he doesn't need to scream to get stronger in spite of his own lung cancer.
"This is a show about ninjas"
Vegeta: I don't fight second fiddle.
Toppo: Aren't you second fiddle?
Krillin: "SHOTS FIRED!"
Roshi: Gonna need a senzu for that
Vegeta: "Oh ho ho. That's the closest thing to damage you've done since I got here."
Granolah: "You see, Vegeta. You're not dealing with the Cerealean warrior anymore."
Vegeta: "I feel like that I've been here before. Have I been here before?"
Granolah: "To finally avenge my people and put an end to the accursed Saiyan race, I have become... the legendary Super Cerealean!"
Vegeta: 😳😡
@@AiresLA "I'm super cereal"
Dbz abridge spoiler
_Between you and the clown here, I think I lost my touch in genocide_
* meanwhile somewhere out in space *
Frieza: "HAA"
I'm happy with Vegeta's changes, but I REALLY wish they'd give him a damn win. I know I'm not alone in feeling that the Moro-arc win felt like a KS by Goku. They had all that build up for Vegeta just to have Goku use UI to win again.
I do feel like we're getting there though, especially in this current arc where the history of the Saiyans is very much important to how things will play out.
Honestly...I think one of the best things they could do to further develop Vegeta is to have someone bring back the Saiyans. Just have some mystery force use the Super Dragon Balls to do it, forcing Vegeta to actually become the ruler of them and attempt to guide them on a less destructive path while still allowing them to obey their instincts for battle.
The wish DOES seem a little fan-servicey but... I agree, it would do wonders for his character.
To be fair, Goku deserved that win too. Vegeta does deserve a win against a main antagonist though.
That would never work
Plus why does it matter? Vegeta isn’t even the main character. The only win goku was with help never just him beating all the villains. Even against moro he had help. And the only solo win he had was against Kefla
@@sjmyst217 He soloed Frieza twice and beat Jiren down but then lost to plot. Plus Vegeta is a main character same to Goku, he deserves character development just as much as any of the other Z fighters do, let alone a win on a big enemy. Maybe before in Z but Super is the Goku and Vegeta show. If you took out Vegeta do you still think super would be interesting.
Vegeta needs a win. Simple.
He really does.
The fact that Vegeta hasn’t gotten a win against the main antagonist is so dumb considering how strong he’s gotten, even when he was the villain / antihero. Saiyan Saga? Got jumped and got rekt. Namek / Frieza Saga? Beat the Ginyus after a Zenkai boost, and got rekt by a Frieza who was barely trying. Android / Cell Saga? 18 breaks his arm, Cell breaks his spine then his will to fight. Battle Of Gods? Beerus literally flicks him and he’s done. Resurrection F? Goku steals his win even after obtaining Super Saiyan Blue off screen. U6 vs. U7? Gets two-shotted by a Hit who was barely trying, while Goku performs better against Hit while in base. Tournament of Power? Surpasses Hakai energy from a G.o.D candidate but still can’t beat Jiren and gets embarrassed. It’s long overdue for Vegeta to get a win.
Vegeta is 'the win'. ;)
@@metallicaspiker16 Resurrection F was his best opportunity too! But nope! Gotta show how OP Whis is by having him rewind time to just have Goku take the win yet again!
He did win against Frieza's minions, Pui Pui and Android 19.
Masako: We want characters to evolve.
Goku in Super: Reverts back into a fight crazed idiot who would give the big bad a senzu bean.
Me: *sighs*
Expect he always has been a fight crazed idiot and that hasn't changed? Giving senzu beans to bad guys is still dumb, no matter the series.
@@okagron Not to the degree we see in super. Did Goku hit his head again off screen cause that's the only reasonable reason why he should be acting the way he has been in Super.
@@okagron I feel like Goku wasn't actually dumb until Super. Giving Cell a senzu bean was a result of genuinely believing in his son's ability, and just not realising what his son actually wanted... and Gohan was actually strong enough to beat Cell, so Goku wasn't entirely wrong.
Giving Moro a senzu bean, however, was the direct result of what I can only assume were decades of head trauma causing irreversible brain damage.
@HunterkageJoestar It's the fact that Super had him do the same for Moro for no actual reason that makes no sense. He had no reason to do it and anyone with half a brain cell would have known it was a bad idea after doing it once before with another bad guy. Super makes Goku act like what Vegeta has been calling him for years which is a clown which in all honesty we all know he shouldn't be that way. Super has such bad writing most of the time.
@@FabledSorcerer tbh I agree that Goku is way more stupid than he should be in Super, but I think Super's writing is actually pretty decent overall; it's just that when they drop the ball, it's always dropped in a massive way, like the end of the future trunks arc or the Moro senzu bean shenanigans. The exceptions are so huge and bad that they seem like the rule, basically.
I personally loved Vegeta in the cell arc. The anti hero role fit him well. It let us feel it took time for him to develop. He didnt just flip over to complete good guy. It made his transition more believable. He was a rampaging, planet take over murderer. He brought genocides. He can't just drop all that and be good.
I agree, the fact that it took literal YEARS and several life threatening for Vegeta to finally become a good person makes way more sense than most "bad guy turns good" stories.
Yeah cell saga vegeta was an evil badass, super vegeta was an awesome form, he was the first one to truly humiliate and hurt perfect cell with that badass final flash
@Adrian Scott cell saga vegeta was awesome as a badass evil prick. He had some of the best quotes and iconic moments in that arc. His super vegeta form was sick. super vegeta and majin vegeta are two of his coolest forms. Blue evolution is kinda like the super vegeta version of ssb.
Exactly. And near the end he finally learns to appreciate future trunks which tied into his father arc in the present. Two other great moments were when he actually apologized to gohan, and when he showed a lot of respect for goku with his “I’ll never fight again” speech.
Best character in Super probably, and we must not forget that he is still the only one that calls Goku "Kakarot".
He doesn't want Goku forget his Saiyan heritage no matter what.
*Minor spoiler *You forgot broly too.
Ooh wait till ikari boi starts yelling.
@@MrWarriorace ooh poo... U beat me to it 😂
Broly?
Vegeta probably had the best and most compelling character development in the entire franchise.
@@MasakoX I know.
@@saudbintalib5701 Goku’s character development was that he embraced his Saiyan heritage, it made him a bit of a worse character but I’m still glad he’s kind hearted at least
Vegeta had the only character development in the franchise lol
@@lennonmurphy2010 maybe.
@@TheTheowl360 Gohan,Goku,and Piccolo also had their character development lol.
If vegeta wins his next fight with Granolah that'll be a satisfying fight we get for our dear prince
Keep dreaming buddy.
You mean like Moro 🤪😂😂😂
@@ayashinightcore8282 i was about to bring that up. But the only difference is that he has not done his signature pose yet and definitely seems to have had more clear progress
@@ayashinightcore8282 at least against moro goku couldn't win at all without vegeta
Haha no
The problem with Vegeta is that the theme of his character and first fight with Goku have been lost over time.
The theme of Vegeta's first fight with Goku was the upset of an elite being beaten by a low class. Vegeta was born with amazing power and is used to getting his way without needing to work for it. Goku was so weak that he was sent to a trash planet because that's all he was good for, and had to work his tail off to get as strong as he did. And that was exactly what allowed Goku to become Vegeta's superior. Vegeta wants to be the strongest, and stops whenever he thinks he is. Goku thinks he can never be the strongest, and will never stop.
But over the years? Goku is so far beyond Vegeta now that any theme of natural talent elite vs. hard working low class is gone. Dragon Ball Minus rewriting Goku's origin so that he was sent to Earth to be saved from his planet instead of because he was trash retroactively erases those themes. And this is cemented by the fact that Vegeta's evil turn and redemption are more overshadowingly popular in the fandom. You see shirts from fans claiming Vegeta taught them about hard work, when he was the character who mocked hard work.
But despite the themes that made him and his first fight with Goku so interesting being sent to oblivion, he sticks around and is supposed to be just as important as Goku. Despite having zero thematic justification or reason.
@@thecod2345 Exactly brother
The reason for the Vegeta shirts and his association with hard work is because once the shock of reality settled after the Frieza saga, once he understood he was bested by a low class through training going against his entire world view as the saiyan messiah(SSJ), he was ALL about hard work and nothing else
The only thing he cared was torturing his body more and more, do the heavy lifting, to "reclaim his place" as his ego required to keep his psyche together
But he didnt get to surpass the low class that was now far ahead of him
Be for meta reasons like Goku being the protagonist and being the one to get the new forms
Be for reasons in universe like how Goku trains smarter, rests his body, is more analytical of his forms rather than focusing on brute force, train with new masters, trains on the afterlife where he has infinite stamina and doesnt need to eat or sleep(but does so anyways), etc etc etc
So in a rather paradoxical way, Vegeta became a underdog and that plus his redemption arc resonated with people who can relate to his struggle
Add the lack of knowledge on the theme of Goku vs Vegeta fight and most people who watched DBZ in the west having not watched Dragon Ball or read the manga and it's perfect understandable why Vegeta seems to have always been this hard working underdog royal while Goku is the main character who dyes his hair to win
But ignoring this ignorance in regard to his character, I think you can appreciate this almost role reversal between him and Goku, it's pretty fascinating, specially since it developed rather organically rather than being planned as Toriyama kept improvising
Well said 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
We see this progression in super. He has a family to fight for that he even puts before his own training at times. He put his pride aside and turned to masters to gain valuable lessons. he finally understood the importance of training to surpass his own limits. And he doesn’t strive to surpass goku to prove his superiority as a high class warrior, he strives to prove his superiority over goku as an equal rival. This is why he’s surpassed goku numerous times throughout super. In fact, he surpassed goku in the very first arc because he used the importance of family as a motivator. so idk why you’re saying goku is far beyond him.
And the most disrespectful part is that you said vegeta has no thematic reason. Along with the other reasons I mentioned about developing as a husband and father, and a student, vegeta becomes a mentor to cabba. If you noticed, he NEVER mentioned anything about being a high class saiyain warrior because he knows there’s more important things.
Above all else, we see deeper aspects of his character we’ve never seen. In the Moro arc, we see the guilt that he carries over his past sins and that in his own eyes, he believes he’ll never truly be redeemed no matter how many times he saved the universe.
In the Granolah arc, we see that he carries even more guilt besides his own. He carries the sins of his ENTIRE race. Beerus helps him understand that he has to let it all go to get stronger.
So he has a ton of importance. You’re just focused on the exact things that originally held vegeta back. Now it’s holding you back from fully appreciating his character
Excellent Statement!!!
No matter how bad it goes for him. I would remain a vegeta guy rather than being a goku guy.
( I don't hate goku, I like him, I just like vegeta more.)
vegeta gang rise
Did you start with DBZ? I'm always curious to ask people this, because I started with OG Dragon Ball. As a result, I HATED Vegeta in the Cell and Buu arcs. He represented everything I disliked about the direction DB went in. I've actually come to like him more thanks to DBS.
@@Slimtunes-367 this implies to me Vegeta is a niche character thos most dislike lol. I know ot isn't what you meant, just what it sounded like to me.
He should at least force Granola to retreat. That would give him his much deserved win for once
Why does it matter? I can’t tel if ur complaining abt it but this is for ppl who are but like why is it a problem? He’s not the mc. And a lot of ppl talk abt goku getting all the wins but he only won against villains with help. The only solo win he had was against kefla
Vegeta NEEDS a win. Badly
And a new form that'll make him feel like an actual rival to goku
Vegeta probably has the best development in Super
So what
In my opinion they are not developing it, they are completely changing the character, which bothers me
Hear hear
@@elcuervodhaedo I respect your opinion, but I am curious on why do you think so? I didn't follow the manga until chapter 70, so I am not quite sure. But it seems fine so far (at least).
He has the best in all of Dragon Ball in my opinion.
*“I AM THE HYPE!”*
0:06 we found it folks, Masako's best transition yet!
The fans kept Vegeta going.
I don't really disagree, and yet, Vegeta was always the most interesting character for me that *didn't* end up disappointing (sorry, Gohan and Goten). Him and Piccolo both had very similar arcs, came at their problems in different ways, and *were probably the only two characters to really, seriously innovate.* They just always seemed to have new moves and tricks, and even if they couldn't directly affect a fight... they were a good lens into what was going on for everyone else, and could even help out by pointing out things nobody else saw.
Definitely needs some work, but... The man will always probably be my favorite character. He used to scoff at hard work, but then when he needed to showed he was more then capable of getting over himself to do what he had to in order to get closer to his goals. Easily one of the best developed characters in the show, which is shocking with how much farther he has to go.
I hope he’s character continues to grow and that he finally gets a solo victory.
I still don’t recall the last time Goku even had a worthwhile solo victory. All of his wins, the serious ones, have been team victories.
@@nicholashernandez4611 True, but Goku is the one that gets the final shot at the big villain the most. I would like Vegeta for once get the spotlight.
I agree fully
@@nicholashernandez4611 apologies if it sounds like a attack, We just want a new outcome beside Goku winning in any way for his team
@@demonthesoule
Oh, I didn’t take it as an attack. Just wanted to point out that Goku never gets a solo win. After I read your comment, I realized that Vegeta doesn’t get wins on the actual main baddies…ever. That’s quite a bit worse. Yeah, it’s the story of Goku and I get that. Still…Vegeta is more than second place…
You gotta wonder why they even place so much attention on Vegeta if they aren't gonna give him a single W. It's like hes just there to get jobbed & occasionally he can fuse with Goku. None of the main cast other than Goku even really interact with the plot much at all
Seriously. Trunks got one. Gohan got one, and a very major one at that. (Two if you count the Garlic Jr. filler nonsense.) How are you gonna give his son a W but not Vegeta? So dumb.
Even 17 got a win, and by that logic so did 18. And in that very same event Frieza did too. All Frieza ever gets are moral victories and developments.
It seems like to get a win, you have to be a major player in the Cell saga.
My problem with Vegeta... is more a problem with Dragon Ball in itself.
It's very clear that since he is a fan favorite that the writers give him "hype" moments to make people speculate and discuss: "Wow, he's gonna be stronger than Goku and is gonna beat the bad guy for once!"
He gets his chapter of being a badass, showing off his unique powers (or usage of said powers) that make him different to Goku....
Before he gets slapped back down like the chump they make him out to be for Goku to get back up and finish the job.
This has been repeated several times now, to the point that I just want to drop anything "new" that comes out in Dragon Ball because it's the same rehash over and over again.
If he actually doesn't get roflstomped by the new "villain" that then leads to Goku or another character saving the day, you'd find me colored with surprise.
lmao called it. Dragon Ball Super Recycling.
if vegeta isn't working, then you're not using enough of him.
So he's like duct tape?
The prince of all adhesive
“I wanna be a super sayain!!! I WANNA I WANNA “
All Vegeta needed was at least one win against a main villain yet they keep shafting the man (especially in ROF) at this point I’ve pretty much given up on that being possible.
@@ssjgotenks2009 dont judge before seeing, vegeta has been training in hakai and has the potential to surpass ui now
I love the thumbnail the fact that it says you what mate
@@MasakoX just one of my favourite lines from TFS’s Vegeta
For me I think Dragon Ball Super needs to focus on other characters instead of Goku and Vegeta.
The problem with Vegeta is that he’s too good of a character to be on a show that isn’t his show. Having him be a second-fiddle character on an inferior character’s show is just begging for everything to be frustrating. Actually that’s the problem with all the DBZ characters. They’re all more interesting than the main character.
Goku was actually a very interesting character in OG DB. He was fine in DBZ as well. But yes in Super he is very badly written
I thought the real problem was Vegeta because of the writing decision:/.
Seeing how Vegeta fight against Frieza or Moro. Seeing Vegeta wants to start a clean slate of all things when he was a cold ruthless Saiyan.,
The fact Vegeta is second fiddle.
The problem with Vegeta is that Piccolo sort of had a more successful smart villain turn good arc, and is a more sensible character. Piccolo gets when they're outmatched and adjusts their strategy accordingly... Vegeta doesn't for most of the series, constantly underminding threats. Vegeta is also has clear anger issues and when they get angry enough they act a lot more predictable in a fight. They also suffer from a similar issue as Vegito does... Fans love to see them, but they're too cocky to finish a real fight.
vegeta never underminds a threat
however he does overestimate himself
They need to go back to z when everyone had some relevance now it's like if it's not Goku it's somehow him in a round about way
I pray for that to happen
But it probably wont
Why are you lying? Everyone didn't have relevance in Z. Yamcha did nothing, Krllin got his ass beat by everyone and Tien had ONE cool moment that really amounted to nothing. The only one that had a bigger role in Z was Piccolo, and even then that faded away by the Buu Saga.
Vegeta: "I AM PURE UNADULTERATED BADASS AND YOU WILL QUOTE EVERYTHING I SAY!"
Krillin: WELL, NOT TODAY!!!!
More like pure, unadulterated ego.
@@MrRemicas shut up triclops
@@derek5608 is that okay?
@@HonestFarmerLigue1Fan as a matter of fact...BIG BANG ATTACK!! 💥
The only problem with vegeta is that he keeps pulling that cursed vegeta pose everytime before fighting a major bad guy.
cursed pose?
He's his own worst enemy!
The writers are his worst enemy.
I disagree with Vegeta being annoying in the Cell saga because all in all that's all that he is annoying,
he has the same problem as Goku. letting situations escalate to their most dangerous just to have a
bigger fight, its part of their Saiyan DNA, which is why I'm kinda tired of the 2 and I wish they had done
something with Gohan and him being a hybrid
The problem is Gohan was and will never be a fighter. He's a backed up in a corner/react type guy but doesn't initiate the conflict. He has insane potentially but doesn't utilize it properly. That's why he's an after thought compared to Goku/Vegeta.
@@cmrnstntn except this would have been the moment he would have reversed that course you know actually progressing from where he began
@@JamailvanWestering Gohans character has progress. Just not in way his fans can accept.
@@cmrnstntn except he hasn’t, he regressed with the Buu arc, what happened to him in the Buu arc already happened to him in the Cell arc
@Adrian Scott they weren’t
0:57 MasakoX: "OH MY GOD! VEGETA IS SO GODDAMN COOL!"
I want vegeta to get the win on a main villain so vegeta fans will shut up about it... like who cares who gets the winning blow it'll probably be a team effort anyway, just like last time. people act like goku gets all the wins and vegeta always loses, but if you actually look at gokus track record in super he actually loses a majority of his fights
Goku loses a lot but it is always him that is on the spotlight and is always him that does the finishing blow so it feels like he always win even if that isnt the case.
But less be honest vegeta fans are mad because goku stole vegetas win against freeza
You're gonna talk about Vegeta's development and not talk about his "You are better than me" speech at the end of the Buu saga? Smh.
Vegeta being the plot mover was kind of why I like the character
Vegeta and Gohan have shown the most growth in Dragon Ball Super character wise
Vegeta literally FEELS like a main character. It is sad that all of his hardwork and effort is downplayed due to Goku and the new antagonist being too strong to make the story progress.
I know it is cringe but I want Vegeta to get reincarnated or sent to other dimension and have new adventure and friends there as a main character. Honestly would be interesting.
You know Vegeta loses when he points at himself before fighting
I think if Toyo had a modicum of writing talent he could do something really nice here. We know Toyo likes to rip off other arcs but here I think it would actually be a good time to do so, hear me out. Drawing parallels to Freiza and Goku you could have Vegeta take the W, charge up a blast to seemingly finish Granolah off, he fires it and we all think Vegeta has done it. He's gone too far. But no, actually he gave him some of his own energy and spares Granolah instead. To me that would be a solid way to end the fight.
I read the title and thought that some of your Frieza lingered since yesterday's Relevation F.
The Vegeta moment which stands out most to me is his internal monologue to Goku. It was in an advert for DBZ which played often on Toonani at the time, so it stuck with me over the years.
I will disagree with one point: I think his change has been at a good pace, not that he’s not changing fast enough. All your points are valid except this. He’s a proud man (as he loudly reminds everyone every hour of the day). Proud men don’t change very quickly. He’s gotten over most of his issues and he’s changing more quickly now, able to see his faults and basically give a grunt to mark their passing. I think if he changed a lot in the Cell Saga he would have felt forced. He had to see that Goku was the better fighter, and someone as proud as him isn’t going to admit that quickly. It took two whole sagas for Vegeta to accept that Goku was better, and that felt right to me. Piccolo lost and never really looked back, which matched his stoic nature, but Vegeta is the type that would need that pounded into him A LOT. Force him to change too quickly makes him a punk. Now, Begeta has been aloud to keep his pride and accept that Kakerot is the star he follows to new heights.
I wish Vegeta's development happened sooner, but I do like that super is finally addressing that Vegeta isn't Goku with their split in training. Geets getting the destructive power and goku going more UI.
But man, if they had started this idea sooner? We would have probably gotten fully mastered SS4 Vegeta and SS God Goku. That would have been a real treat
For me in Super, Vegeta is overdeveloped, the same with Goku, they were fine as they were in Z. On the other hand, I think it is time to dedicate more development to other characters, as GT did or even at the beginning of the saga of Buu.
I don't think how you treat Vegeta is that odd as his character development was very dependent on the events that happened on the main story as such in a what if where a change may occur that may deviate from that development its not strange for his character to remain the way he was or encounter his demise given how training techniques and power ups were developed after he was introduced
I'll tell this, it is hard to see Toyotaro and Toriyama being committed to have Vegeta change, if he loses every single fight he is in... forced to remain second fiddle to Goku...
Have him win against Granolah, and then try to at least calm him down, SHOW that all of the focus on him supposely wanting to make amend for what his people did, and his training with Beerus actually served a purpouse...
I am overall satisfied with how Vegetas progress has been handled in Super, all I would say I want to see more of from Vegeta is see himself from yesterday as a rival more than Kakarott like Whis advised both of them in chapter 70
We want goten and trunks to age and use their hybrid potential!
I enjoyed Goku because it felt like I grew up with him and same with Gohan but other guy's aren't progressing much
All I know is that becoming a god of destruction is hella cool, and I can't wait to see the new Vegito (Gogeta?) then...
I'm very very sceptical of comment about this is a changing Vegeta and a Vegeta that we'll continue to see change. After seeing Vegeta get far better writing during the Buu saga I thought that Dragon Ball Super would continue the improved handling of Vegeta. Then all the way up until the ToP we see almost the entire roster of characters go through recycled character arcs. There's a very real possibility he'll regress again just to "progress" again when the plot needs moving again.
I think we all already waited too long to see Vegeta taking out the bad guy in turn, moro was the closest he was to achieve it, but Japan attacked again pulling out the Goku card
vegeta needs his own spin off
"There needs to be an asshole or else there's nothing to talk about." -Bam Margera
Exactly right Masako. Honestly, you could make this same argument about Gohan and Piccolo as well. Fan favorites that the fans want more from.
Vegeta is fan favourite because he's badass on good side, people's like that emotion expressed which shows the passion within themselves. Look at Bakugo from my hero academia.he's badass and gets then win or atleast get's the fight interesting. That's why he's fan favourite even more than main character. These characters are human emotions for pride and self. Where as Goku and Deku are tending to morality righteousness. But for those characters the roles are slowly reversing in both series. But they shouldn't nerf Vegeta and Bakugo like Sasuke. That anger and pride is their driving force.
Yeah definitely the anger arrogance and pride is a badass trait i like how vegeta still has it even now that he is a hero
@@derek5608 There is very thin line between self confidence and arrogance. Vegeta often crosses that line. All he needs to learn is stay in confidence. Facing the unknown with confidence is a good thing. But sometimes i feel toriyama could do better with this character. But i feel he's restrained by the plot. He needs to keep it simple too as it's a fun loving justice serving anime. Where as Bakugo's character is never shown as bad as Vegeta is shown. Which i like about mha. If you notice whenever vegeta comes on screen the animation quality drops compared to Goku and Gohan's main moments, Vegeta' s movements are always rigid and too much punches barrage which doesn't work with villains example vegeta blue vs goku black in base form (lol). I saw some improvements in Broly movie but let's see in moro arc. In short writers don't really like Vegeta. That's my opinion based on observations until now.
@@TheAjayC arrogance is one of the things that makes vegeta stand out, “you say i’m arrogant, i say damn right!” that was a badass moment. I dont want vegeta to become so good to the point that he becomes another goku, that would suck. goku is confident but he never trash talks and thats what makes vegeta stand out. Another reason why ultra instinct wont suit vegeta cause he has to keep a clear mind so that would take away the cockiness and ruthlessness from him which make his fights epic. i’m glad he’s going down the hakai route. Also yeah i agree the writers are biased and favour goku too much. the quality of vegeta vs rose when vegeta gave him that badass beatdown and humiliated him was pretty good though. As for the morro arc, i couldn’t care less about it cause the outcome was awful. built vegeta up as usual all for nothing, just ended up being an assist to goku.
@@derek5608 Well true we don't want Vegeta as second Goku. He has his personality. Yeah in all arcs Vegeta is becoming more and more of assist since cell saga. Writers don't understand their own flaws i think because giving us same bs since then is what making many dislike the show altogether.
@@TheAjayC I think one thing GT did well compared to Super was putting respect on Vegeta's name. Even if he was outmatched by Goku and the Shadow Dragons he never gave up. He kept fighting, and even when he fell down he got back up again. Even Super Saiyan 4 was earned through him and Bulma's tenacity. Taking a Machine designed for Evil and using it to create a next evolution.
Vegeta I feel like is a character who's entire arc was a massive role reversal. What I really want to see, is a arc where Goku can't show up to save the day. Maybe he's stuck in another Dimension, or he's put in critical condition and the rest of the Z Fighters have to step up. Goten and Trunks are trained by Vegeta, and as a result the Z Fighters have to fight this enemy without Goku. No Goku for most of the story except the beginning and the end. It would also be sick to get some Piccolo action.
If the story was written differently do you think his death on Namek would've been the perfect conclusion to his story?
Great character exposition but none of it means there's a problem with Vegeta! Everything you stated made his redemption earned and all the more sweeter. I shall debate this with you over several larges mugs of tea if you so wish.
I think again one of the main reasons why we are struggling for character development for characters is the old issue that Super has always had and that is the end of Z issue IMO. Because of this they are unwilling to change characters too much as that might upset where they should be for the end of Z. This is why IMO they need to deal with end of Z and move past it. So we can change and grow characters.
On Vegeta getting a win against a major bad unfortunately unless they show that the major bad was weakened by Goku, Vegeta will not get a win because that would make him stronger than Goku and Toei seem unwilling to have that occur.
Beerus did say that Hakai can be relevant to UI and Toppo did use Hakai to transform , if Vegeta can surround his body with Hakai energy ,that would make him extremely dangerous because if you hit him, you get hurt in the process or if he hits you.
Vegeta is the hero of the series now. Goku is a good guy but fundamentally he's kinda self centered. Vegeta is the guy who grits his teeth and does the right thing because it's the right thing. Groveling to Beerus. Lying to Trunks about Frieza. Giving his energy to Goku. Hell when Granolah sucker punched Goku, Vegeta looked worried for him and hit the Senzu button.
It's kind of like Beerus said: the only thing on his mind should be Destruction. Or as Vegeta himself put it in the last SDBH episode: Good and bad are meaningless. The nature of the Saiyans is the fight. And then he proceeded to seize the "evil" power and turn it to HIS will. He's far more interested in discovering his own strength than what Goku is doing.
I kind of feel the Cell era was necessary to really break him down enough for him to grow in the Buu era. Besides it's not like anyone else drives the plot!
Ya right vegeta is selfish too, don't worry vegeta will be humiliated, it will be fun to see you all getting humiliated
@@yashmahita8874 Goku is self-centered. Not selfish.
The problem with Vegeta? Problem? As in singular? You could write a book just listing all of his problems.
Honestly, I'm glad Vegeta is in the jobber tier. Because now the Saiyan only fan boys can see the position that yamcha, Tien, and maybe krillin fans have been for over a decade.
Perhaps all the other people can have a meaningful adventure on their own to really make it clear that Goku’s human friends who battle are strong but just a few tiers down.
In the Moro arc, Yamcha showed that he is still stronger than Frieza’s in his final form in the saga by beating down characters around that level. That is still not meaningless and there can be stories around that level of power. Tienshinhan, at his best, could counter Semi-Perfect Cell.
Those aren’t meaningless power levels anymore because they certainly can’t all be increasingly powerful and there will be more people around Namek Frieza’s final form to Semi-Perfect Cell levels of power.
@@iantaakalla8180 Sure there _can_ be stories of that level, but unless they're Saiyans from another timeline/universe or Goku, you can bet it won't happen. It's to the point where if those characters were to off themselves and couldn't be revived, literally nothing would come of it. In fact, the main cast wouldn't even notice. Sorry to say they've been completely meaningless for several years. Only power that has any meaning anymore is the most recent hair color that it will show Goku getting on screen and Vegeta off screen.
Someone sounds salty
Except vegeta is not in the jobber tier, he is in the top tier taking on the main villains and playing a role in their defeat. you gotta be silly to compare him to the earthlings lol
Yo, what if Gohan joined Turles in the tree of might movie? It may not change a whole lot but I think itd be a cool idea to play around with.
I completely agree that Vegeta was a plot device in the Cell Saga. But I didn't notice all that when I had first watched it. I actually found him quite entertaining in the Cell Saga as he was an active character that drove the story forward and he took his own decisions irrespective of the majority although his decisions were a double edged sword.
Most fans find the Cell Saga Vegeta annoying but his attitude actually makes sense with what happened in the Frieza Saga. He failed his life long goal of defeating Frieza and to add insult to injury it was accomplished by a low class warrior and he had to literally beg to Goku , the last person he'd ever ask anything from. Now that he got his second chance at life he was adamant to prove himself to be the best in order to relieve that trauma, he was basically doing it to heal his broken pride, to feel good about himself after that humiliation in the frieza saga. And unfortunately he failed this time as well as he was again bested by Goku and Gohan. That's why his depression at the end of Cell games " I will never fight again"
Your Videos are always lit
I would love to see you and Mistaire Fusion talk about Vegeta. Would be interesting to listen to.
damit once you said vegeta "broke free" i right away imagined the Queen song only with Vegeta as Freddie Mercury.
Buu Saga Vegeta: Finally admits Goku is better than him
Vegeta in DBS: Still frustrated on why he can’t surpass Goku
One Day Vegeta's Best Day Ever Will Come
I think that was the day he blew up Nappa.
@@KratonWolf agreed.
The problem: Vegeta points to himself.
The solution:
Remove Vegeta's thumbs.
2 words,
Final Shine Attack
HIT THE NAIL DIRECTLY ON THE HEAD🙏🏽🙏🏽A true DRAGON BALL FAN‼️
Nobody:
Vegeta: mY sAiYaN pRiDe
I would've loved if Toriyama had limited Vegeta's power in the Cell saga simply by NOT giving him the Super Saiyan form. That both gives him a good argument to be the strongest (of the Z fighters at least) in base form, but maintains frustration and inclination and a goal in not having him achieve SSJ. That would more force Vegeta to rely on wit and planning to challenge the enemies. Also, that would set up a situation where Trunks dying triggers an even more powerful moment from Vegeta.
I feel Z Vegeta deserved everything that happened to him. After being the antagonist of the saiyan saga he worked with the z fighters in the Frieza saga, then he had a family and was now helping to fight on earth ( the same one he would have destroyed). I feel cell saga Vegeta was the perfect set up for the buu saga, by bringing his ego down he was conflicted in his purpose till Goku came back. In all those arcs I feel his loses were meant to break down his ego till we got to see the more clarified and calm Vegeta.
Even though I don't feel like he should get the treatment he does in super, I still do love that the whole point is to develop him into the character he is in the end of Z.
Still needs a win though
They should make a group of villain who are just as strong and important to each other and have Goku and Vegeta beat them on their own, each their own ways. They are so afraid of any other characters stealing Gokus thunder( The fans like me am sure, we dont mind seeing anyone else beat the main villain,we love it when Gohan unexpectedly be the one to take down cell, heck give the earthling something to do).
If he didn't beat moro or frezia I really don't see him ever getting a win those were the best opportunities to win . At this point if he ever does get a win it feel like like a pity win lol.
Man we really need team 4 star to pick the abridged back up. I wanna see super abridged Vegeta so so bad.
The only thing I really want is to see Vegeta be actually on par with Goku, not stuck always as second fiddle.
I know it's impossible due to writing, but a man can dream
He's been progressing very rapidly, and given how much weaker he was to Goku in the Buu Saga it makes sense it would take time for him to catch up.
I just say that they should have had Granolah happen WAY earlier, probably right after Resurrection F, and make Cereal have been destroyed by Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta. Then rework Vegeta's interactions with the Namekians during the Moro arc into a character arc for him, where Vegeta's trying to forget about his past and just live on earth, only to be faced by the slightly altered Granolah, which now acts as a sort of embodiment of Vegeta's past sins (and doesn't have the involvement of the Heeters). We then see Vegeta realize that he needs to take a more active role in the protection of innocents across the galaxy, to try and actively make up for the mistakes of his past, which leads to Vegeta joining the Galactic patrol, which could end up doing wonders for the Moro arc down the line, since now Vegeta would have a much deeper connection to the escape of Morro, and his subsequent wish for the rest of the prisoners to be freed.
Also, Vegeta is the only one to fight Granolah here, and he does end up taking the win.
Let's all give thanks people for those initial Vegeta fans that kept him around and voiced their love for the prince. 🙏
And I will pray that vegeta fans will critisize and troll vegeta with their mouth
One of my favorite Vegeta moments in Super that always get ignored was against Zamasu/Black when he told Trunks to heal Goku when he realized he could only heal one of them and acknowledged Goku was stronger than him.
I want Vegeta to balance himself and his old was with his new found remorse and growth. To move past who he was but still know that that is integral to his being (he's already going down this path). After training in the god of destruction I would love to see him train under the supreme Kai as well. To find balance in destruction and creation. And it kinda fits that parallel of Vegeta going the way of the gods and Goku going the way of the angels.
Given the fact that both Toriyama and Toyotaro hate him the trope of him just being a punching bag for the current big bad to show how strong the big bad is.
Because Toriyama does not like Vegeta!
What I like about Vegeta in Z and Super is that we see how Vegetas character has developed from the start of Z and Super to present and it makes people want to root for him. Z and Super has shown how far Vegeta has come from the arrogant Prince of all Saiyans to the "chill" Vegeta we will see at the end of Z.
What if Goku representing the Carrot on the stick dangling infront of Vegeta, teasing him that he will never get to a piece of Goku the Carrot
Vegeta is a better husband and family man than Goku.
That joke is getting old
Vegeta is constantly changing while goku 😑 since probably sayan saga and thats your main character i really hope vegeta gets more shine because he deserve it, espacially a big W. Even his son got one for got sake.
Okay did he say "Hating" or "Yeeting" there at the end. Because it very much SOUNDED like Yeeting. the Auto-Subtitles also say that hesaid "Yeeting".
Now all we need is a win for vegeta. Even trunks got a couple wins
Wouldn’t it be interesting if he was able to talk to radiz and nappa and apologize to them about the way he treated them
Vegetas character arc for me was perfect in dbz and I wouldn’t change a thing. And even in gt his character continued from where it left off in z. Super kinda fked it but r now bringing it back