Dragon Ball Super Has Gone TOO FAR This Time?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- We ask, has Dragon Ball Super gone too far this time? Before #DragonBallSuper Chapter 74 comes along, we want to discuss the idea of Granolah The Survivor. At first, this rival to Goku and Vegeta was an interesting character who was determined to be rid of Frieza once and for all and be something new for #DragonBall and not ape #DragonBallZ a lot...but has his power grab gone too far? Is he too strong? Too OP? Does he need to be nerfed?! Let's look back at the likes of the rivals of Z such as Frieza, Cell and Buu to see if they were overpowered in their time and whether this current baddie is or not following the trend!
Has Dragon Ball Super Gone Too Far This Time?
• Dragon Ball Super Has ...
• Dragon Ball Super Has ...
Join this channel to get access to perks: masako.cc/join
🔴 Subscribe for more tales and what if adventures through Dragon Ball: www.youtube.co...
The MasakoX Store: masakox.com
Amazon Storefront: www.amazon.co....
--------------------------------------
For more content, check out these playlists:
Dragon Ball Discussions
• The Dragonball Discuss...
Dragon Ball Super REVIEWS
• Dragonball Super Video...
The Best of MasakoX
• The Best of MasakoX
Connect with me:
Twitter - /MasakoX
Instagram - /realmasako_x
Twitch - /masakox_tfs
Intro theme by Infinity Tone - / infinitytone
Thanks for watching! Please be sure to like, share and subscribe for more videos and to share what content you like!
Pitches for knew what ifs:
1. What if dragon ball was theme after the medieval era
2. What if boxer married suno
3. What if goku was raised by ox king
@@secoTheSonicFan It’s entirely possible that the future of DBS isn’t an animated TV series, but a series of movies. We’ll see what the 2022 movie has to offer.
He's not the main antagonist of the story but a plot device
The fake end screen gag made me laugh!
The issue is that it’s getting harder and harder to justify stronger villains over time. In Z the main villains were an intergalactic space tyrant, an organism created to surpass all known fighters and and chaotic ancient evil as old as time. These things felt justified that they were this powerful but Granola is a punk who made a wish on dragon balls. This is comparably unjustified especially when Goku is using Ultra Instinct a form that is difficult to obtain by even gods. Unlike the Z villains it doesn’t seem justified that Granola is this strong. The comparison isn’t fairy’s the villains in Z were vastly more powerful than the last felt fair considering what they were. That suspension of disbelief has not only disappeared by now but Granolas justification for power is much thinner than the other villains.
3:47 Granolah: "I call this Super Cerealian 3!"
Vegeta: "KAKAROT DID IT FIRST! YOU'RE NOT SPECIAL!"
Granolah: B-but he's not even a Cerealian.
It’s not Super Cerealian. It’s the Extra Crunch form.
@@ceresthestarspinner4609 "I STAY CRUNCHY EVEN IN MILK!"
@@KertaDrake one of the best comments I’ve ever had.
Am I the only one who read that in TFS Vegeta's voice? No? Just me? Okay.
This is just how Dragon Ball be. Goku trains. Meets someone stronger than himself. Gets kicked around a bit, comes back stronger. Bing. Bang. Boom. Now he's stronger and wins. Sometimes he loses again and someone else takes the official win. Sometimes he dies. But he always comes back eventually stronger than him. Beerus is the only exception and people say that's in the air.
This is also every superhero movie and every action film from the 80s.
Tbh what if one day the heart virus comes back and kills him like Forever and the others have to get stronger in order to defend the planet
And still I like watching it. It’s like an fps game, sure, it’s repetitive but somehow enjoyable
Don’t worry this won’t be the goku show this chapter or the next Vegeta finna nerf Granolah real quick
Oh and Goku isn’t on par with beerus even in MUI beerus also knows UI just hasn’t mastered but he has mastered damn near every thing else Beerus takes the W
I still respect Jiren for being the only main antagonist to get his power from training.
Hey Frieza also trained! For like.. four whole months
@@francescopiocarpagnano5966
Which means he never trained a day in his life before then, meaning his base power was not from training..
Jiren = Free to play grinder with no life
All other antagonists in Dragonball = "haha wallet goes brrrrr"
Still is a bare minimum character that makes look super 17 good in comparison
Makes sense. One of the main themes of Dragon Ball has centered around the value of effort, and the characters who train the hardest being the strongest over time. The antithesis of this quality would be all of the antagonists who are given a massive amount of power with little effort... which is pretty much all of them, to varying degrees, as this theme has honestly been overdone in Shonen as a whole, but to be fair, Dragon Ball originated, or at least, popularized this trope. Jiren wasn't an inherently evil antagonist, moreso another hero with a different moral standing in regards to relationships with your allies, which is kind of a refreshing change, but still feels a little shallow imho.
I would have preferred if they kept Granolah as a analytical type of fighter that is focused on using his cerelian right eye instead of raw power.
That would have been awesome.
I've been playing around with that concept a bit in a story I'm working on.
Granted it's going off of the Old Heran Theory, but it works out quite a bit if you imagine Granolah being like Gohan, and just not having the same Edge to him.
I agree as well with this. They should have had him not be as powerful, but know how to knock Goku and Vegeta's ki out or something. Maybe have it where his eye can nullify their ki or something (making all their ki attacks unable to be used) when it's used on him.
That....just wouldn't work in this series. Goku and Vegeta are TOO strong, no amount of analytics can take them down, any adversary of theirs has to have a lot of power or some hax ability that renders their power useless.
Isn't that what he did. HFIL, the guy sent in a clone for reconnaissance.
This is Dragon Ball, not Naruto. The only thing that matters is who is stronger and more powerful. The exception is the Cell Saga when Trunks powering up affected his speed. But that plot point was never brought up again since being stronger became synonymous with being faster every other time. If a character in Dragon Ball discusses technique, he is just wasting screen time for padding purposes. Unfortunately, this makes stories repetitive since getting s new transformation power up is the solutionnto everything
Granollah cheated not only the game, but himself.
He didn't grow.
He didn't improve.
He took a shortcut and gained nothing.
He experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained (except his remaining lifespan).
It's not about improving for him. He just wanted the means to the ends, nothing more. Granola is not a martial artist.
@@lordvasha5246 It's a reference to an article where someone modded Sekiro to make it a bit easier. That's a comment directly in response to that article :)
Pretty much a what if Vegeta did it?
@@vincentf1487 Vegeta wouldnt of had a reason to do it, but if he did he would he far stronger than Granola
Villains cheat. Thats what bad guys do
"Is Granolah overpowered?"
.....
Isn't that nearly every main villain though?
That's the beauty of this discussion! To see if this is anything new or not?
@@MasakoX Cell power - he earned it.
Granolah power - awful plot device and character convenience.
@@MasakoX I'll admit the way that Granolah getting his powers was a bit dumb, and seemingly gives him an almost endless limit, but to be honest I feel like Toriyama and Toyotaro are kinda just trying to keep the trend of making villains stronger with every arc, just to make them a challenge to Goku and Vegeta. To keep them relevant. So situations as admittedly contrived as Granolah kinda... don't surprise me. We were gonna reach this point eventually.
At least we still have gotten fantastic fights out of it (that forest fight will be so entertaining when animated).
@@AllTradesGaming Well,"earned".It is esay to see that his power isn't own when with logic we can know the new vegeta´s technnique can transform in his 1º form with a punch and he is literally build with betters blessings genetics knows in his arc.
The unique that we can award is his intelligence for act in right way to his goals,something that share with granola(use the powers of db ).
@@AllTradesGaming no one in dragonball did that tho. ask dragonball for truly power. someone asked for immortality, now raw power, at least people stop asking about that
3:12 MasakoX: "Big things come in small packages."
George Takei: "Oooh mmmy!"
MasakoX: "STOP IT!"
Devil Artemis Zarbon: OOOOOOOOH!
So who’s the small package?
@@____________838 ohhhh myyyyy
*King Kai in distance * DAMMNIT TAKEI!!
@@thecrowe20 lol
Roshi: *heheheHEHEHEH*
The problem isn't Granola, it's that they made Goku and Vegeta too powerful too quick. Even SSj God in the anime was suggested to able to destroy the universe. Having characters at that level just "show up" is becoming harder and harder to explain without some wacky plot device or contrivance.
Exactly like how dafuck do villains as strong or stronger then both goku and vegeta suddenly show up? Even tho both goku and vegeta become stronger in each arc. The writers litterally wrote themself in a corner by making goku and vegeta universal in lv the jump from galaxy or solar system lv to universal is just crazy.
Thats why Dragon Ball Super does not need to go on forever at this pace if they have no ideas. But they keep making more and more arcs, conclude the story!
@@theinktank5510 agreed.
SSG Goku wasn’t universal nor suggested to be. The only “feat” being the punches *with* Beerus. And even then, those were meant to be *Three*.
(Not) Three-shotting the Universe with someone else doesn’t make you universal.
Guys... we've seen him in one actual fight. One. He got Goku due to his his lack of true mastery of UI. Everyone needs to just calm down.
Ui was supposed to be the ultimate fighting mode, where the body reacts on its own and does the most minimal amount of movement to do what it needs to do
Not even that really. He had to trick him in order to beat him.
Granola wished to be the strongest Mortal, so by definition he's stronger than Super Broly. So yeah, makes sense that he's busted.
Who tf said broly was a mortal?!?!😂
@@ItachiUchiha_1724 .... whoo tf said Broly was immortal 😂
@@ItachiUchiha_1724
Well, considering Broly is not a god...
@@ItachiUchiha_1724 he’s a mortal though 😂
@@ItachiUchiha_1724 dumb argument For one.. Brolly does not have any god k I which was explained in the movie clearly. #2 he is not immortal and hes a saiyan like goku or vegeta minus the god ki.
Granolah's wish was a necessary evil. There's a sad reality to Dragon Ball
Canonically, Frieza was the pinneacle of mortal power. Every antagonist after him had to either be newborn or be sealed away until recently.
And as the power bar got higher, it became harder to justify there being some super strong guy we never heard of before. That's why Granolah needed to just get strong fast.
And even outside of universe 7, you can't have someone stronger than Jiren without needing to explain why they weren't in the TOP.
Maybe they are from one of the universes that didn't participate? But that's the only reason I can believe
@@eduardopantoja9115 That explanation has their own problems though. Overall, they kind of shot themselves in the foot with the TOP.
The introduction of 11 more universes created nearly infinite posibilities...and they wasted it by cramming all of the strongest guys in the multiverse into one arc.
and that is the problem of dbs, this does not know how to add villains without looking forced and without monumental script holes being produced, for example: because broly, moro and granola were not in the tournament of power even when whis and kaioshin sought to the most powerful or even better as it is that nobody knew anything about moro and broly until their respective saga, as in the saga of bills where whis looks for the surviving saiyans and there is no indication that he is aware of the existence of broly or in the saga of black where goku black must have met with moro but there was no mention of this (with jiren it was justified because he was in another universe but how come black did not meet moro?). It just doesn't make sense that villains with powers and abilities superior to those of the same jiren and goku ultra instinct appear without us having had any hint of them in the past.
@@randomnpc5777 Most of these aren't that hard to explain though.
Beerus didn't search the universe for strong fighters, he forced Goku to assemble the team, so Broly not being recruited for the TOP works. Moro was also powerless up until his arc, when he gathered enough power to escape prision. Finally, Granolah was relatively weak before making the wish to be the strongest.
As for Goku Black and Moro....I mean, canonically Moro should have escaped prision before even Future Gohan's death, but time travel messed up the timeline a lot.
I'll give you that one, that and Beerus not finding Broly when looking for saiyans (though I feel it could be explained)
Maybe they weren't in the TOP because they were villains.
0:00 - Dragon Ball being silly?! Noooooo, perish the thought!
2:59 - Something in Dragon Ball is unbalanced?! Noooooo, perish the thought!
5:09 - I'm not doing the joke a third time, two is all you get from me.
Just really getting tired of Goku still letting his guard down. How tf does this even happen with MUI? The writing needs to get better
And sinds when does ui get less accurate the longer goku uses it ? He didnt even use it that long lmao.
@@secoTheSonicFan that is correct but toriyama didn’t write it the exact same way every time and write himself into a hole so much that he’s changing lore on MUI. It’s almost every arc that goku is letting his guard down. When can he learn to actually not do that. Whis has been saying this the whole time and DBZ didn’t have this much of it.
Goku's base form UI is not enough for Granolah, all other forms make UI unstable.
@@austinlavigne3977
That’s mostly because Goku was out of commission for at least half the sagas in DBZ.
May be a genitic flaw or family curse .
Bardock did it agisnt frieza soliders
Raditz did it against goku and piccolo
Goku does it frequently
I think Vegeta should finally get that well deserved W in the near future
I dont think this will ever happen. We have all wanted Vageta to get a W since 1995.
@@BiPolarUrsus All They need is to five him a W on a Main Baddie, and I shall shut my whore Mouth.
Maybe you need to tell Toyotaro that you want Vegeta to lose, and then he'll subvert that expectation by letting him win
Vegeta needs to close the past of destruction left by the saiyan and Goku needs to learn something from Granolah and stop being a threat not only to others but to himself.
I never understood this, I do think Vegeta should get a chance to defeat a final boss.... but the guy has has plenty of Ws. In some cases more than Goku himself.
Vegeta recently just started to train under someone (Whis and Beerus) while Goku always had a teacher to train under. He chose to learn these different techniques, while Vegeta JUST decided to learn from others. But he still came this far from mostly training alone
"all characters have quirks get over it" my first thought was not in my hero academia
As Cell once said, "Yes, you were."
They went too far the moment they literally retconned the Namekians origins just to justify the exsistence of a new dragon, to which Granolah asked to become the sdronghest guy around, all in 1 chapter... only that this time he literally is as powerful as the gods...
And this because they couldn't bother to give him a journey to earn that power... it's all a: I need powah! - *DONE!* situation.
And yes, on paper there are conseguences, conseguences that no one cares about! Who cares if Granolah only has 3 years left to live? He surely does not, since he is more than content to waste time waiting for the Heeters to do his bidding instead of at least search by his own too, if he wants to murder Freeza...
Not to mention he can just be revived by 3 different sets of Dragon Balls AND THEN the Super Dragon Balls.
Just keep exploiting the world's logic.
@@iIllusionStudios
And not even consistenly!
Look at the potara retcon... and then look at how Kibitoshin defused himself in a prior moment.
I feel like it's time to step away from goku and vegeta as characters, as they are just too powerful to write convincing villians for them. I was more interested in goten and trunks fighting on monster island, than most of the TOP saga.
@@secoTheSonicFan They can't because money
I also feel like at this point the most convincing villains would be a corrupt god of destruction or angel at this point
Why does money always makes people treat property and people like crap?
@@גיאורטנשטיין Because if you had the chance to make millions literal millions of Dollars just for shilling your franchise trust me you'd probably do it
@@agenttex5973 but they already have millions of millions of dollars
The Heeters are probably gonna be the main villains of the arc and they give me Team Rocket vibes.
We bring the saiyens devastation
To unite the universe in our nation
To bring the universe peace and love
To end the saiyans once and for all...
TEAM HEETERS WILL DESTROY THE SAIYANS!!
That would be in character as far as Toriyama villain writing goes to me.
I'm hoping they don't become an edgier ginyu force
Be interesting if they do not become crazy strong. Of course, it likely will have Gas become powerful.
I kinda find them more interesting right now tbh
I respect power levels enough, but I really miss the focus on techniques and learning in original Dragon Ball. I think that's why I like Ultra Instinct in principal. It has a technique explanation, not just a power boost
Yeah no Mui gets overwhelmed is someone is simply strong enough Mui allows non thinking movements but in terms of dbz especially with the power system doesn't mean much if your opponent is too powerful
The """"consequence"""" for Granolah's wish is almost certainly never going to actually come up, we still haven't left the interquel era yet.
I'd find it interesting if his wish could be somehow revoked.
I mean you could make a wish on another dragon asking to cancel his wish yeah?
Like someone wishes for Immortality and you go wish for them to lose their immortality
Given the Dragon is sufficiently powerful enough of course
@@ClericOfPholtus thats logical, but I don't need that in the story
@@gwen5715 Well no, I was saying what would be possible not what should or likely is going to happen.
It's boring to have the teens go to the police.
*Theory time! What If: The Heaters just use the Two balls to undo Granolah's wish?*
Not possible without the dragon giving back the years gronilla lost due his wish in the first place and a dragon can only grant wishes like that if they were stronger than enemy
He's going to ask to transfer his power to the heaters.
One thing I think they are trying to do is go back to how DB was and some fans don't like it. Since most people started with Z, they see power level's in black and white. The only character in season 1 super that had a fairly unique ability was hit with time skip. Even in the ToP UI made complete sense of why he could beat Jiren, because it was based on his ability to fight and not raw power. DB proved that with the right moves you could become dangerous and Granola is no different with finding weaknesses. I believe if Goku fought the original in UI it be a different story, but Goku still had a time limit which his training was supposed to get rid of. Personally I like the direction the manga is going and hope they start to build upon there past concepts.
The biggest issue with this character is how easily he became the strongest, hes more powerful then ultra instinct... I feel like they could fix this if he used the super dragon balls instead. Starting out with the new dragon telling him about them and him being able to somehow obtain the super dragon balls to then wish to be the strongest. That would make far more sense story wise. If its this easy to become the strongest then why hasn't anyone else wished for that? Still i do like Granola his fights have been awesome and his design is great, just the way he got there isn't.
Alternatively, don't use the dragon balls at all. After Broly, the door's been blown wide open for old z movies to be reworked for super, so this would have been a great place to use the tree of might.
Saiyans do not like to wish for strength
I mean only a race with a long life span can get that strong cuz he kept lowering his life span so he can get stronger plus to get that strong he lowered his life span by 600 years so yeah unless you know a race who can live for a thousand of years then he gonna be the strongest mortal to ever live even if goku did that he wouldn’t gain much since he doesn’t go much of a life span to sacrifice he dies a human life span
@@justsomedudewithnoneck8329 He lowered his max age from 150 years to 3. Not from 600. I don't know the average age of sayians or namakians but at a guess max of 100 so they could've done the same. The issue is that Granola is stronger then super saiyan god and even ultra instinct. Its a lazy way to power up a character past the point of all previous events and past god power.
@@xenoplayz4524 yeah true but sayians starts to age at 80 so that out of the question goku like 50 now but piccolo can definitely do it I think they live long considering guru
I figure when he wished to be the strongest Granola got scaled to Blue Gogeta.
Tbh I think a lot of this sort of sentiment is born out of the power scaling part of the fandom. The same people who do the "math" on character power have consistently hyped characters based on theoritical ability, and generally don't like things that upset their balance.
7:00 Piccolo: "You know you could have flown."
Raditz: "DAMN YOU HINDSIGHT!" *dies*
Axolotl Shenron needs love.
He does! It's a very narratively compelling Dragon.
Been watching a long time, but only on and off. I keep hearing "Havrock and I" who is Havrock? Has it ever been explained or mentioned?
One wish made some one match the staggering climb thats been all of dragon ball. I just cant find it in me to accept it.
Whats the point in obtaining god ki and training as hard as they do with gods and angels if its so casually rivaled? To me more and more it seems like the acomplishments are muted
I’ve said it before, the two main things that bug me are that A) Granolah was given a power to rival UI and B) It wasn’t given to him by Super Shenron but some supposedly weaker dragon. Yeah, his life span was cut short, but it still doesn’t change the fact that he got the power to match and surpass Goku and Vegeta. Even Goku Black, who basically stole his power, had to take time to master his abilities through Goku’s muscle memory(at least the anime one did, the manga cheaped out and had him exploit Zenkai, which was kinda lame to be honest) maybe if the new dragon(I can’t remember it’s name) were somewhat divine in nature, or it’s creator had access to some sort of God Ki, I’d be a bit more ok with it. But as it stands, he frustrates me.
6:20 Nappa: "And Raditz is as strong as a Saibaman!"
I have no real issue with Granolah as a character. We've had plenty of edgy and no nonsense characters in different series. The thing with Granolah is that he's made to be a sympathetic character who's misguided, blinded by revenge. I do hope that Goku or Vegeta can knock some sense into him and perhaps he'll chill out and realize that they're not the enemy. Honestly Granolah feels less like the main antagonist of this arc and more like a potential ally for the "real threat" whatever that may be.
“Getting silly” Coming from the creator of “what if bulma trained like goku” lol ok
A character being "OP" is aiming valid criticism from one form of media (competitive multiplayer games) and improperly applying it to another (comic books). It's like complaining that a book "tells but doesn't show" or that a song "has too long a tutorial and not enough choices". When it comes to fiction, passive fiction that is, there's no such thing as "too powerful" so long as you can write a good story around it. Heck Bruce Almighty was "totally OP" because he was literally omnipotent, but does that ruin the movie? No, it was in fact the point of it.
People don't realize granola wished to be the strongest in the universe currently. SO by default he surpasses gokus ultra instinct current level of power. vegeta & goku will still get stronger and surpass granola eventually again unlocking new forms i think. Granola will stay at the same level because he's not really a warrior to begin with.
He literaly wished to be the strongest in the universe theres no nerfing that
Tbf, I don't think Granolah's overall power is *that* much greater compared to MUI Goku. He did heavily imply he needed to wait until he could sense Goku's weak-point, after all. I think it has more to do with pressure-point attacks + X-ray vision being stupidly OP, which is why Granolah is so heavily reliant on using them. If Granolah fought more like a typical fighter, using punches/kicks/energy-blasts, the fight would've likely been much more even, IMO.
No it wouldn't. Stop being a Goku fanboy and address Toriyama writing. Goku loses his first fight against his new protagonist every new arc as a template. Toriyama on wrote Goku losing. Its up to Toyotaro to write how he loses. Point is, Goku was losing regardless
@Jay Harmon the writing does not care for consistency. Granola is written to be stronger than MUI Goku, while Granola is stated to be weaker than the Gods. Know what that means? In the manga, Beerus told Vegeta that gods do not master MUI only because they don't need it and have thousands of their own enhancement techniques. The story writing is a loop where Goku must always feel he is not strong enough
Granolah did not fight Goku using his real body. Just a much weaker one. Andre, you have posted your Goku fanboy nonsense for years here. Claiming Goku is invincible, then damage controlling everytime Goku loses. Do you not learn your lesson? Goku loses his first major fight against new villains. He will lose again next arc, then get a new power up
There is a 2022 Dragon Ball Super movie. Andre will say that Goku will beat that badguy easily because he has Mastered Ultra Instinct. In the actual movie, MUI will get beaten and Goku will need to team up with Vegeta
@@secoTheSonicFan lmao! Vegeta's new transformation was stated to be stronger than MUI in the new chapter. And all it does is "fight back" against Granolah. But Granolah transforms at the end to take the fight seriously. Not only is Granolah stronger than MUI, he has transformations pushing his power ABOVE that level as well.
Cerealians have a lifespan of around 150 years, and dragon really didn't give him more strength than he would get if he trained for that long, so i don't think he's cheating, he just took a shortcut to get his chance of revenge.
Didn't his whole species get wiped out by a group of saiyans weaker than raditz? And the same base form frieza who one shot all saiyans was about a 250 times weaker than when goku first went super saiyan 1. Yet granolah isn't suspicious goku and vegta are waaaaaaaay stronger than frieza should be? Granolah should be surprised saiyans are even at super saiyan 1 power levels because that's above frieza, let alone ui which even God's can't use well. I'm mind boggled granolah is this strong. What if someone like hit sacrificed his thousands of years life span, would he get stronger than an angel?
Frieza was universal overlord from a special species, just as saiyans are stronger than humans. Cell was a biomedical experiment that absorbed infinite energy machines and lots of life force. Buu was a legendary millennium demon that ate gods that was locked up and released. Granolah being millions of times stronger than them is a joke. At least Moro uses magic.
@@RyuMasterEX Lot of assumptions comming from your comment, we don't know that much. But to answer that Granolah isn't suspicious how Goku and Vegeta are much stronger than Freeza? Granolah probably never met Freeza before and if he did Freeza probably never transformed out of his 1st form before Namek saga, he doesn't know his full capabilities, let the arc finish and then complain, otherwise it's pointless discussion.
My problem is he basically nullified MUI with a clone. That doesn’t sit too well with me along with the way he attained his power.
If there's anything they have gone too far on, it's the food theme naming... How am I supposed to take the villain seriously with a name like that?
I hope they don’t pull a Xeno by the end…
You and me both.
A what?
@@eleos-7845 Towards the end of the Goku Black arc, once Fused Zamasu was backed into a corner, his essence enveloped the universe of Trunks’ timeline itself. Then Goku remembered he had received a button from Xeno that would either bring Goku to him or him to Goku. Goku brought Xeno to ask for help against Zamasu, and his answer was to destroy the universe, which made Trunks’ mission of saving his timeline from destruction an utter failure. All of this because Zamasu enveloping the universe made him too OP.
@@JJ_R a diamond of bad writing.
@@JJ_R Better not! I swear that ending is still terrible.
Granolah so far just feels like filler. There's no epic stakes at hand so far. No destruction of earth, the universe, entire multiverses, gokus friends, etc. Just some guy out for revenge. Maybe it is fan service to demo Vegeta's new powers and for Vegeta to finally win a fight that goku couldn't and prove to be stronger than Goku.
Or maybe there will be a plot twist that we haven't seen yet. Probably the latter, but, if not, total filler, a bit like the canonical Broly movie.
I mean not every arc has to have great stakes to be interesting
I'd rather it not have those sorts of stakes anymore. After a while it gets ridiculous.
Sometimed the best stakes are the personal ones.
@@Moumentai yeah, totally agree with you, world dangering threats on every arc is kinda boring.
@@Spencer_232 Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, honestly.
@@Moumentai but there are no personal stakes. They are just fighting villain after villain for no reason then getting powerups. The story seems pointless. Like it should of ended at the Buu saga, and now they are milking.
Would reverse psychology help make the writers focus on better things or realize that money isn't everything?
It's sort of Evolution's fault since it's existence caused Akira Toriyama to continue Dragon Ball
I don't watch too much Dragon Ball myself, but what I was reading was that people were really interested in how Granola was strong in a different way. From the sounds of things, it's fallen back into the very same formula and he's overpowered in the context of what there was in the story before
planet cereal sounds delicious. i bet instead of water they have milk.
Personally I think this is super (pun intended) interesting seeing how they will work with someone like him someone like Granolah forces a lot of character change and world building I would really hate if they cheesed this fight I would love for them to go to another universe to find a way to get stronger quick there is a lot of possibility here
I am so tired of having another strongest person to deal with. I like the new chapter it felt fresh with Vegeta but overall I wish we had a chill arc before this.
Dragon Ball Super: And This Is To Go Even Further Beyond
Love what ya do masako, always posting bangers
I think we've lost that feeling of Frieza who could, in theory crush anyone at any time, that no one stood a chance, had to outwit vs overpower. We now just wait for the enevitability of what form will Goku or Vegeta will achieve to win the battle
2:03 I'm surprised you didn't pull up a picture of Midoriya here, missed opportunity!
TORIYAMA HASN'T LET US DOWN YET, BROS
TRUST THE PLAN
Launch & Upa crying in the forgotten corner.
"TORIIYAMA(sic) HASN'T LET US DOWN YET"
Debatable
@@Marcelelias11 I SAID TRUST THE PLAN
One way to nerf the dragon is that if you make a wish from that dragon you can't make another one even if you summon him or even if someone else summons it and makes a wish in your behalf, that would also make it a great one use wild card in the future with high stakes
Fat Buu's power level is around SSJ2 nad Kid Buu is around SSJ3. Think how the fights would go without instant regeneration/immunity to meele attacks. Vegeta wouldnt even need to blow himself up.
Buu is always around ss3, with fat and kid, maybe fuse would be ss2, the reason why buu was able to survive vegeta explosion was because the energy output of vegeta (injured and weaken) was not enough to vaporize buu even in ss2. Maybe if he was fully healed and had his energy restored he could in theory vaporize fat buu. Now, fuse goten and trunks together, that ss2 could take on fat buu.
Note, ss3 is able to destroy fat buu but ss3 was only to keep up with kid.
Imagine nouva and omega shenron coming out of the pair of dragon balls.. damn!!
I keep finding myself annoyed how we just came from an arc all about how power that isn't earned gets you no where and can destroy your body, but if you wish for it it's all good. I know we've gotten a few tease moments of Granolah, while strong, being called out about being inexperienced with his power. It just feels like a technicality they're playing on. Idk maybe I just miss OG Moro and still think they did him extra dirty after the eating 73 thing.
Tbh, I feel like it's time for Dragonball to step away from Villains being stronger than the last and have them be more methodical/gimmick like.
They had it with Morro at 1st but when he ate 73 it became more about power. Not skill or technique.
I personally feel like super is dying to power creep. With new enemies coming in that keep being stronger than the last. The troupe is old.
id be okay with him having a significantly larger raw power than goku from his wish. but gaining all these attack skills and knowledge on top of it is crazy. just having his eye powers on top of his raw power would have made him a bigger challenge than frieza in the namek saga who had to rely on his ordinary sight to fight.
I don’t know if they’ve mentioned how long Cerealians live. What if they live for centuries, and Granola’s power being to compressed to three years was like you competing the rest of your life’s energy into *three days* and it’s a lot sharper than we realize?
Also, I like to think the new dragon has a secret drawback. Maybe it destroyed the south galaxy again.
2:02 “All characters have quirks.”
Deku gets immediately triggered
The manga is always weird about mentioning power levels for some reason. The last time we even learned someone had gone up was in a passing comment during Moro saga that Gohan was now the third strongest once again. His training again had him surpass 17 and starting to approach two two big lads, but its only mentioned as a passing comment. I don't honestly mind the less focus on power levels as it can be used to make things feel less crazy power scaly.
As for Oatmeal here I too am a little disappointed that he's not ending up very different. I want to see different styles, different ways of fighting but it always devolves into the standard dragon ball fights. Moro was promising but he to descended into the typical. My favorite part of Moro arc was due to a character showing a new fighting style that was different than the normal. Gohan completely bodying Moro's strongest minion TWICE through manipulation, planning, tactics, and fighting in a smart way made it a fun thing to read. Utilizing his unique skills to make his fighting unique was great, even if it was short. I want to see more of that, more interesting unique fights and abilities.We got enough "STRONG MAN PUNCH HARDER" stuff.
Well he was already pretty strong, but then he gain 150yrs with of power. I think people are just underestimating that
Just look at how strong goku and vegeta got with 40+ plus years of training
There should be some sort of plot where everyone's powers get nullified and they have to go back to DB style combat and Martial Arts.
I'm not sure if they did this before. But I think if he were to be the antagonist (stay that way.) This could go to the route of them beating the crap out of granola, and teaching him that you can't be the strongest if you don't work for that strength, or some mumbo jumbo. I think that Vegeta and goku (mostly Vegeta.) would be offended about how granola got his power. They worked so hard to access the power they have. And now they are fighting someone who got power from paid dlc.
Not good with words, but just a shot in the dark.
It is a pity that we never got to see Buu fight in the Tournament of Power after he DID do training...
I guess it’s been like this since the beginning, really. I do think that the rate and speed at which the characters’ power levels increase after the Majin Buu sage is pretty nuts that there’s no suspense anymore. We all know that in a few pages, Goku will unlock the next level hidden power and win. Fights and villains are not consequential anymore.
One thought that came to me. Maybe the more balls there are to collect for a dragon, the more limitations/rules are imposed on that dragon's power.
Also, (if we ignore GT) there does not seem to be any negative side effects for a wish granted by a dragon summoned by 7 balls.
They grant the wish or they do not. Unlike this 2 balls Dragon who feels more like Granola has sold his soul for one.
I think what should make granola stand out is his character. He should be more methodical instead of a straight up powerhouse. I think he's doing a decent job of it. But they are messing his character up imo.
What started off as a level headed chill guy is just on a revenge trip. Refusing to listen to reason, and the saiyans aren't doing any good in terms of explaining their hatred of freiza.
Vegeta doesn't even try to reason with him that much from what we've seen. Sure he throws a few words in but when granola knocks it out the way(which he shouldn't exactly have been as keen on doing) vegeta just gives up.
I view the lesson of Cereal bar should be the harmful effects of revenge. How far u take it b4 u lose parts of yourself, as well as the people u hurt along the way in your pursuit of "justice".
To be fair, “on a revenge power trip” is his character. He wants revenge against the Saiyans and literally traded his life away for it. He would definitely revel in the power that was given him by using it to take out Goku and Vegeta as efficiently as he can. This is ironically shown best by Granolah turning from a sniper to a typical Dragon Ball magic brawler.
Naturally, however, even this execution will be messed up by either falling into some old trope or by some horrible sequence of events.
RANT!!!!!!!!!!MOST OF US FANS ARE GETTING BORED OF DRAGON BALL SUPER'S GRANOLA ARC!!!!!!!!Apparently.........
I think the only reason people think the arc's story got worse is because the story literally stopped.
Up until recently it was all buildup and plot, but right now we're in the middle of a fight. Too early to judge.
Its boring. Drawn out. Repetitive. Unnecessary. Thats what some people say about Dragon Ball Super as a whole, but the manga is making things worse.
TBH the manga paces itself like a weekly updated serial, despite being a monthly serial. It’s kinda frustrating.
I love how you added in a beauty and the beast, Gaston reference. lol
Every cerealian gangsta until mui ssj6 rosé kaio Ken x 100 Brogekulo shows up 💪💪😤
Personally I like the idea of someone using the dragon balls to get a power boost.
I always wondered why no one else did that. Putting aside resurrections dragon balls were only ever else used for immortality, youth restoration, and a few other miscilanious things.
So I've thought before how the Dragon Balls might be used to simply grant more power to someone.
People were talking about power creep and power scaling way back in DBZ. I've been kind of "over it" for a while and think the way the story is told and the action scenes are presented are more important. I think Granolah has had great action scenes so far, a great design, and an interesting backstory. I think the best way to consider characters is to think of how they look in Dragon Ball FighterZ. Does this character add a new visual element to the series that is not already brought by the rest of the cast?
10:25 (Did he try to sneak a "STOP IT? under our noses?) 🤔😈😬😏
12:06
Alternate suggestion, power levels keep going up but not compared to Goku and Vegeta and also oh hey Goku and Vegeta are a bit busy training and that threat is actually a bit weak for them, or even oh no someone wished on some Dragon Balls that the Saiyans couldn't intervene with their plans, guess the Z Fighters or other groups will have to deal with this enemy, granted that enemy is stronger than them but with some training or good strategy they should pull through.
I really want to see Granolah finally learn his place in the Pecking Order. Just because he got a power up wish at the cost of his lifespan doesn't have to mean instant victory for him.
Granolah may have the power from his wish by Toronbo but he lacks the training and experience to control and use it.
This is probably what the old Namekian man Monaito was warning Granola about. “Just because you’re the strongest there is today doesn’t mean you will be tomorrow.” Someone else is gonna surpass Granola ( _sideeyes Gas and Elec_ ) and while Goku and Vegeta can train and adapt to it, Granola can’t, because he’s maxed out all his stats.
Oh yeah, I should mention a theory of a possible, tragic “What Could Have Been” twist that, had Granola not made the wish, he would’ve met and become a disciple of Goku and Vegeta, learning and self-refining their Hakai and Ultra Instinct-esque abilities from them for the rest of his life. He could’ve learned to cast his hatred and vengeance aside and trust the Saiyans as his teachers. But he’s much too young and naive to realize that, and thus has let that hatred define him.
@@astraldirectrix then, Granolah would become just as useless as Gohan, or any other non-Goku and Vegeta character
I think Granola's exploits are an intresting turn of events. What goes around comes around and it was high time Vegeta and Goku got a taste of rekoning for their race's deeds....
Hey Masako, I have a request. I just finished watching the what if Broly turned good full story. And I had an idea to add Brpmy to the Tournament of Power! Granted, there would be a retcon to your already amazing finale, but I would love to see your take on Controlled Broly sith thegod powrrs combined with LSSJ against Jiren (and his reaction to Kale) lol.
You said the T.O.P. happened as udual, but the Tournament of Power could have started way after. Mainly because there is only one Zeno, and he wasn't influenced by the other Zeno into doing "something fun". He would still be living his usual dull life, and he had already forgotten about the tournamrnt until Goku reminded him.
So you could have made it where, years after, Broly goes back (before the ending of Z like you made) and Goku and Vegeta are all excited. And Goku seeing Broly was stronger than them both, makes him even more excited to the point he remembers that there are more powerful people in the other universes, so he reminds Zeno of the tourament.
Now with a controlled LSSJ Broly with god powers, things would have been different. I think Broly would have been a match for supressed Jiren, and only an all out Jiren would have been a bit stronger than Broly, but not by much.
I’m still not a fan of wishing for power, but Vegeta addressing that its obvious that he isn’t used to the power and hasn’t trained at all, dose interest me in the story telling
We can’t even give the characters a power-level, since some of them surpassed even time itself which is 4D and 4D is higher than i finite 3D (infinite powerlevel)
I don't want to necessarily say Granola is over powered because his power path is one gain from straight magic (boarder line alchemy, equivalent exchange and all that) a much lesser explorer in-universe system with the only other example being Gohan. I still don't want to write him off yet because I'm curious what happens once his motivation (s) changes. As far steaks go, I do hope the wish is permanent "what is lost cannot be regained" in terms of his life span because I'm hoping if the old nemakian dies then there shouldn't be a away to undo the wish even with the other dragon balls which could expand the lore a bit because we never had a situation like this before.
This arc is great and gronolah is a great dude too
He's character is about action
In the past he didn't make any choices on his own and he changed after that for inaction to action
It just seems like the writing is getting lazier and lazier.
which means that toriyama doesnt really care anymore and should retire. permanently this time.
This arc is to emphasis effort over Inherents, and that his wish emphasis "Why didn't anybody think of this before" like anybody didn't wish for the obvious.
14:19 "It is good to wait for the whole package before coming [...]"
lure him into the hyperbolic time chanber. find a way to lock him in and make him unable to destroy it from the inside. wait three days.
Granola looks like one of his old models from Dragon quest
That is my problem with granola and his desire to be the strongest in the universe, this same one is too dominated, I mean that literally with only 2 spheres of the dragon is enough for you to overcome the training and the power that both goku and vegeta suffered in getting. So we're talking about a more insane power up than kale and caulifla's ability to transform with ki on their back, one in which it puts you above the mastered ultra instinct and quite possibly above all vegeta transformations (except the hakaishin mode) so if both granola and the dragon spheres are completely dominated and broken (I hope it only remains in the granola dragon balls because otherwise it would make all the training of goku and vegeta unnecessary and that they could quietly ask for a higher power to that of jiren with a simple wish).
I think any dragon would have been capable of granting this wish. It's more about Granolahs lifetime potential, than the strength of the dragon. I don't believe any mortal could have made the wish and been made that powerful. Very much a potential unleash, but more clever.
Dragon Ball's use of "GrEaT pOtEntIaL" is not any more new of a concept than just multiplying his strength, in fact you could argue its even less so. At this point everyone in new age Dragon ball with any semblance of relevancy just has a dumb amount of potential. It happened with Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Freiza, Hit, Goku, Broly, and now Granola. It's a tired concept.
@@IchigoKurosaki911 in what world could a character without amazing potential ever reach the level of super mega prodigy training with gods and angels with infinite power?
@@andnl9819 I never said it doesn't make sense or that it's a plot hole. I said it's boring or uninteresting because it's not creative and a majority of the time it doesn't bring anything new to the table. Even with Gohan the reason people loved him so much is because despite his great potential he can't just tap into it like it was nothing, it took a literal life changing event and a traumatizing amount of fighting and specialized training at a young age to get to where he is.
Just look in comparison to someone like Frieza that tapped into god level strength in literally 4 months feels unearned, which is why a majority of people don't like the ROF movies in hindsight.
@@IchigoKurosaki911 I think with ROF, people forget that Toriyama is a parody writer at his core. As much as we might want some serious stuff sometimes you're going to get someone becoming a god from doing mild workouts.
It's just the power level issue, they either fight gods and they have no where to go, or they boost mortals to their level.
@@andnl9819 Him being a parody writer doesn't change the fact that the entire Frieza situation was not played for laughs even a little bit, he literally tortured Tagoma the entire 4 months of training.
A parody power up he does for example is Goten and Trunks, because they just casually do it and every is shocked to the point of hilarity, not even close to what happened with Frieza.
A power level excuse doesn't change the fact that it's lazy writing, you can always have creative ways for them to catch up.
Yeah, I gotta agree. They really should've just used the Super Dragon Balls again for this one. Because the Super Dragon Balls have no limit to what they can do. Using this new random set that only requires *TWO* balls is a bit of a stretch, even by Dragon Ball standards.
Soooo they lure Granolah into a hyperbolic time chamber that takes up 3 years in 1 day and fight him till he dies
i just want to see broly and cooler
I think this migth loosely be a tease for Frieza to make the same wish? Frieza's lifespan is implied to be hundreds, if not, thousands of years so Frieza could maybe negotiate the reduction with the dragon?
It's definitely a problem that the power levels are becoming too high. Although after the Freiza saga the power levels didn't grow that much until the end of buu arc. I just think that the most powerful character is close to 10 Billion (Super Vegito )
For all we know, Porunga may be able to make the same wish without drawbacks.
Gas is definitely going to end up absorbing all of his brothers and sisters who would wish on the mini dragon Balls to get ultimate powers just like Granola.... And maybe 63 the robot would end up absorbing gas
Damn that sounds too broken...
5:15 (End of video already?)
Krillin: NOT TODAY!!!!