The 2024 Hagerty Bull Market w Larry Webster - Carmudgeon Show Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott - Ep 124
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- Опубликовано: 10 дек 2023
- This episode is an unfiltered chat about the 2024 Hagerty Bull Market - an annual gathering of collector cars that are poised to appreciate in the next year.
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This episode of “The Carmudgeon Show” is presented by Valentine One Radar Locator: Find radar before it finds you! bit.ly/Valentine1_Hagerty
Click here to join the Hagerty Driver's Club: bit.ly/Join-HDC-Cammisa-ICONS
Learn more about the 2024 Bull Market at Hagerty.com/media
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Hagerty Media boss Larry Webster joined as our special guest to discuss the list of cars that made the 2024 Bull Market List - and many that didn't.
Ferrari 308 GT4 Dino
The E9X BMW M3 Competition (E90 and E92)
E46 M3
E36 M3
E30 M3
Porsche 911 (997)
Chrysler Town & Country
A124 Mercedes E320 Cabriolet
Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversary
Mitsubishi Pajero Evo
Jaguar XJ6
Rover SD1
Lotus Omega / Vauxhall Carlton
Lancia Delta Integrale
Honda Beat
Ferrari FF 4RM
Ferrari 612 Scaglietti
FD3S (FD) Mazda RX-7
Z32 Nissan Z
Chevrolet Impala SS (1965-1970)
Ford Galaxie
Jeep Comanche
Jeep Scrambler
Jaguar XKR
C3 Corvette
Ford Thunderbird
Lincoln Continental
Plymouth Prowler
Maserati Quattroporte V
Lancia Fulvia
As always, there are lots (perhaps too many) opinions about the cars. And much comedy.
The Carmudgeon Show is part of the Hagerty Podcast Network. 
Авто/Мото
And the screen shows its real purpose
…but does so entertainingly & informatively..no free lunch
Wow, you figured it all out. They are part of the deep state, yes???
I cannot emphasize how much I enjoyed DTS describing fuckbois and E92s.
1:25:00 I'm crying 🤣 Ain't no way Hyphen did 🤌 while talking about an Italian car subconsciously.
How the hell do you guys have only 21.8K subs? Should be way more
E92 M3: It has lots of "excuse" to be appreciated: 1st and last M3 with V8, last M3 with NA engine, last 8k+ redline M3, last M3 coupe (like the original M3)
In my opinion the E90 was better than the 92 especially in looks and most certainly in rarity
The rear arches of an E90 M3 😍@@jonmercer6868
Size of the old M5 was the E9X M3, so then the E60 M5 would become the M7 and the E63 M6 would become the M8... M#+2, got it. But that make the 1M be the M3... can't make that equation work... haa
Please never stop making this pod
Thanks for using our photo at 1:10:52 of that XKR - the lovely Marissa Simos took that shot!
From us, we really expected more than just one Japanese marque to hit the list.
I'm glad that lucid is no longer a sponsor, they make fantastic fantastic vehicles, but I think there's a sense of journalistic impartiality but can be impinged on by having an OEM sponsor. Valentine is definitely a better fit
I'm glad the Pajero made the list and I hope even more imports end up on the Bull Market in the future.
I'm an old millennial and many of the cars people my age and younger want to collect -- fast wagons, JDM hero cars, etc. -- were never sold in the U.S. I imported three of my seven cars and my friends have similar ratios. The internet is making it much easier to buy and maintain these cars than it was in the past.
And, unrelated, I really want an FF.
E36 = ❤
P.S. That GT-R among a bunch of NSX picture looked hilarious! 😆👌
Im gonna have to finish this later because that e9x segment just ripped my heart out of my chest. Missed the boat on them several times, been working two jobs for years trying to get one, compromised on several purchases because they were just out of reach, and now they are probably gone forever. One of the few cars that are still above pandemic pricing and not even close to kbb. I guess my first bmw will be an F8x instead 😢
Stay optimistic and keep grinding, they made too many for the pricing to go truly stratospheric. You'll get there dude, don't give up! E90 saloon is a far superior car imo, and prices for those will likely lag behind the coupe for quite a while
@@harryokona Why do you prefer? My s2000 was sufficiently practical for me to daily, so i never really considered the heavier models. Having a third pedal is more important to me than which body style i end up with. I will certainly get there one day i just wanted it to be before I make the jump to faster cars so i didnt feel the need to add boost. I already went through that once going from sti -> s2k,
@@Nick22257 The e90 has a better resolved and more compliant chassis than the e92. I also personally think it looks much punchier and hotter. Manual E90 LCI is the absolute sweet-spot, but an extremely rare config!! If you haven't seen it, the Driver's Republic video (E90 vs C63 vs ISF) with Harris, Meaden & Jethro is a fantastic review and summarises my thoughts succinctly.
ruclips.net/video/4KVgEtXWkvY/видео.html&ab_channel=Alex
Consider Shelby GT350 if you can live without a BMW badge.
@@AmitPatel_. eventually yes, i currently have an s550 GT
Man I love this podcast so much
@1:13:00 : The Apollo astronauts weren't given the C3 Corvettes by Chevrolet. A local dealer leased the cars to the Apollo crews for $1/year as a marketing stunt for his dealership.
E92 M3 was the last time I actually wanted to buy an M product. RIP ///M
I’d go a bit newer, 1M and F87 M2
I think the GT350 is the spiritual successor to the E92 M3. I drove a 2013 M3 back to back with a 2018 GT350 in 2021 and decided to spend more for the Shelby. I had a 2015 F80 before that. Good car, but never loved it.
Agreed on this. Owned both and the GT350 was my preference. Found the e92 m3 just ok.
@@Ryan-fg3pe I'm curious to know what you replaced the GT350 with. I frequently drop the seats and use the cargo space for road trips. I don't see any other compelling options that have the same practicality.
@@AmitPatel_. After I went Cayman GT4, the front and back trunk combo is amazing!
I really enjoyed this episode. It’s fun to see the reactions and further conversation of each car from the guys and their experiences with the cars. It was great watching Derick be so interested in why some of the cars are on the list and then realize from his own discussion why it’s on the Bull list.
Great list guys and show I will definitely comment on this video.
First and Foremost YES the Prowler is Not a race car, it's a Hot Rod Cruiser.
Let's take a Corporate look at the 3.5L V6, it's actually one of the fastest V6's of "its time".
By adding and upgrading to these listed items, the Prowler is actually faster then the 1997 BMW M3 and 1997 Porche Boxster.
Upgrade to: Bosch Platinum Plus 4 Plugs, Cold Air Intake, G-Force Gears, & Carlini Borla Exhaust.
(you could also get the NOVI 1000 Supercharger)
Testing from a few Prowler enthusiasts.
All runs are done in Drive, not using the Manual Auto Slap Stick.
1000 feet
51 F
31% humidity
99 Stock Options from Dealer
0-60...ET...MPH
5.92 14.63 95.7 It hated the 2-3 shift
5.82 14.62 97.8
5.69 14.34 98.5 Instantly I knew this was fast
5.87 14.53 97.9
5.89 14.52 98.5
Averages:
0-60......ET......MPH
5.86* *14.52* *98.06
99 with Bosch Plus 4 Plugs, Cold Air Intake, G-Force Gears, & Carlini Borla Exhaust.
Same conditions as the Stock Prowler. (No Supercharger)
0-60...ET...MPH
5.42 14.10 99.2
5.38 14.18 101
5.38 14.38 98.6
5.44 14.44 98.2
5.29 14.24 101
Averages:
0-60......ET......MPH
5.35* *14.26* *99.6
Hopefully this helps explain all the bad press about: "It should have had a V8"
Remember this car was built in 1997-2002 and at that time Chysler's/Dodge's V8 HP 230 @ 4,400rpm and 300lb-ft.
Yes in today's world 253 hp is very low compared to today's V6's and V8's.
I always thought Yellow was the best colour for a 308GT4 but then I saw the Pine Green Metallic one that's currently for sale in the UK, that's just stunning
I'm surprised the 2nd-generation Aston Martin Vanquish didn't make the list. They recently dipped in price and even the 2014 models with the 6-speed are fantastic cars, even considering they have a V12. I just bought a 2015 and I really don't think I'll be losing any money on it.
2014 vantage didn’t come with a 6 speed I don’t think - only the vantage in those years
Although I love them, dearly, the ZF-8, especially in the S is so good too
Hey Derek, hail to the Lancia Fulvia. Think you are right on with that one. Half the price of a GTV and way better designed and built in my view. Besides everybody and their brother has a GTV. Series 2 even after Fiat are still good and not too much plastic yet.
great guest. great episode.
The Pajero Evo is one I wouldn’t mind having in an automatic due to heritage reasons. The Dakar rally versions were all automatic since they were more robust than their manual counterparts
180K miles on my e39 m5 original bearings. Have this car for 13 years now
Great podcast! I am a Gen Xer who wishes he still had his E90 M3 as it was a manual. Still have my E36 M3 4/5, though. I did not obsess about the Countach growing up, but rather the two women driving it "Cannonball Run"...lol.
Is the Hagerty Driver's Club available is Canada??
When I saw the image of the DB7 with those disc-style wheels the urgency to get one of those as a sort of guilty pleasure emerged again. I really like the exterior, I am really afraid of repairs and running cost, but if only to justify saying "I'll take the Aston today" could be so worth it.
is that a yamaha rd 350 tank on your shelf on the shelf,Larry
Marissa Simos from Automotive Restorations took that XKR photo.
Also, finally Jags are on the up and up.
Was cool when you spoke of the FF as I just met, took pics of and chatted with an owner at a CC last month. Didn't realize how few there were until he told me and as you said it was super loud on start up. His was white but still beautiful.
Jason is completely correct with the RHD point. As an owner of a 1993 Suzuki Cara (aka Autozam AZ-1), I want the furthest thing from a “normal” car experience when driving my fun car. Sitting on the right, shifting with my left hand, buzzing thru canyon roads inches away from the guard rails…. wouldn’t have it any other way. Delivers an experience that none of my LHD cars can come close to
Totally agree with the comments at the end regarding purchase vs. selling price to determine if you "won" or not. I bought my E36 M3 for $12k 4 years ago. I could possibly get in the neighborhood of $18-20k now...which looks great on paper, until you include what I have invested in it the past 4 years. Ugh...
We just talked about this post on the Car Exchange Podcast
They start talking Pajero EVO II. I literally already had another webpage open on the Pajero I caught the same tip from another RUclips channel last week!
I am going to be lusting for a Pajero Evo for so long before i can afford one, let alone find one.
Man they were cheap in NZ, still affordable. The reason I can't afford one is I planned to swap a 4G63 in with a manual 😂
Derek saying that an Integrale should be your 6th or 7th car as I’m sitting here with one as my second car and I spend more time fixing it then driving it. 😅
The Pajero is for all the Dakar Rally fanatics a Holy Grail, 2door SUV homologation special, the guys at driftworks have one with an supercharged lt and 10 speed that makes like 800 hp and they scaled it and its like 50kg heavier then the normal evo.
Please Hagerty, let Derek and Cammisa do their thing.
The thing that makes corporate functionaries "palatable" is the same thing that bores us to death.
I enjoy the blend they have had lately of doing their own thing, but also showcasing specific related events such as the Cybertruck or this Bull Market list.
👍
Agree, it was okay for a little while, but couldn't help keep thinking hagerty wanted more plug time...
Great episode. I would like another Q&A. soon. I want to know Jason’s opinion on the BMW 128 (2008-2013)and Lexus IS300 (2000-2005)? They never make your list of naturally aspirated, rear wheel drive, front engine, manual transmission cars for enthusiastic driving.
Good cars but boring….
I LOLd at the GTR cut
my father just bought a prowler with the trailer and a giant book of service history for 19k
People have installed V8s in Prowlers so it does physically fit. Dodge also claimed a hemi wouldn’t fit between the frame rails of a Viper which is why they never made an entry level 8 cylinder car, or used hemi style heads on the V10. However throtl put a hellcat engine in a viper for that roadkill nights thing Dodge sponsored.
The Hemi fit in a Prowler WHILE passing crash testing from what I was told by a Chrysler engineer who had a Hemi swapped one WITH a trailer!
I want to see a Honda K-series and manual swapped into a Prowler 😅
I feel like this year's list of cars has missed the mark for desirability...and by that, i mean that I am out of touch.
31:30 Video is great, but it’s hard to get passed Larry saying the V8 in the e9x generation has great torque.
I love how the ads are for stuff that is unobtainable or foe right illegal on this side of the pond 😂
I know I'm not the only person that said "prowler" out loud at the same time Jason and Derek did 1:16:00
I wanna figure out how to rig a junkyard corvette transaxle in one of those transaxle Maseratis
Don't, just buy a wrecked Maserati Coupe GT
Best POD so far, I think. Larry was great.
Where is Nissan 350Z on this list ? 😉 also we are missing first gen Golf E😅
Larry rules.
E92 M3 is one of my favorite cars of all time. It’s perfect.
My dream cheap car is a Fiat X1/9, but I can only afford it in 1:64 scale. Derek, you really should buy a Galaxie 500! And a Fulvia.
The comments about the E46 M3 were spot on. I didn't like mine because it didn't dance on the limit the same way the E36 M3 and E34 M5's do, but also that it didn't feel special to me.
The Comp aka ZCP was a game changer. It was what the M3 should have been from the start.
AMEN!
I honestly think a lot of the issues I think you guys have with the E46 M3 stem from its stock factory wheel set up. That stagger does it zero favors, especially with the weight it gained from the previous gen. Swapping in a squared 18x9.5 or 18x10 set-up with some proper performance tires really wakes up the car and catapults it into another level that the US-market E36 M3 will have trouble matching without significant mods. If you want to go a step further, upgrade the sway bars/suspension and you've got yourself a fun toy. There's a reason why they're still one of the most popular platforms you see being tracked at Buttonwillow and the Nurburgring. Definitely agree that it doesn't sound that great though. But this again is fixable with a CSL airbox that brings it from worst sounding M3 to best in an instant. Now, if you're the type of person who doesn't want to mod their cars, all these points are moot.@@TheCarmudgeonShow
@@waveslicer 100% agreement on square ⬛ tire setup of any BMW of that era that came with stagger wheels. Place the rear size on all 4 corners and drive.
@@waveslicerI am a big M fan like big but I think the e46 m3 is overrated…. I have driven 10 of them and have 5 friends that have one… none feel tight even a low mileage one…. Not to mention subframe issues which one or two have fixed more than once… great engine bad everything else….
Surprised by the reaction to right hand drive. Living in the UK having a lefthand drive classic is not that big of a deal
Show challenge-what cars can you have a real experience within US speed limits i.e. I have a fiat x 1/9, Jason’s Honda beat etc.
FF V12 with RWD mod it is as a decent 4 seater prancing 🐎 product. Let the hunt begin, oh wait I need 💰. Will just window shop
👍
These guys fail to mention the Pajero Evo also came in LHD and Stick!!!
If anyone wants a Pajero Evo there is one on Cars and Bids for the next 12 hours or so
29:35
Nor can we.
I know, he is the most wordy guy I know of on RUclips in the car space...
in a good way
Tyler of Hoovies garage just bought a 46 Town and country
Facelifted maserati quattroporte GTS is like peak sedan
Next year: Hagerty Bull Market with special guest Sam Smith!!
Just make a fart noise when you get to 1947 T&C.
Love the show 😊
Would the impala ss be popular with the young people because of lowrider potential? just wondering.
When they said Impala, my mind when to the Holden Commodore 4 dr sedan from down under we had from 2014-17 called the SS...
🙋🏿♂️
Affordable Gandini design Lambretti designed mid engine, targa top, feels like you’re going faster than you are, steers like a go-cart, no assist on breaks and steering so really a drivers feel …. X 1/9
I almost fell asleep watching this
clap
Jason, let’s hang out. I’m also poor trash.
I am always stunned this channel has less than 8 million subscribers. Wtf
HARD disagree about E46 M3 and E90 M3 being bad out of the box. They were great when they left the factory and only got better after the right aftermarket parts and maintenance. Source: had an E46 for 6 years, going on 7 with E90. It does get shitty gas mileage on required premium and it takes 9L of 10W-60 but worth it
IMO ... a 2 door m3 is still WAAAY more useful than a 911 because you can transport stuff ... the trunks are huge, combined with folding rear seats, and the larger cabin compartment. no comparison.
So GT4 > 308?
Yenko Corvair full stop.
You mean late 1960s Impala SS will get more expensive? Sigh….
Pump the algorithm 😂
Get show!
Still the only dickhead-free car podcast unsullied by tiresome egos. Well, among the better known podcasts. Keep 'em coming.
Never heard of Spike's Car Radio? 🤣
Smoking tyre podcast is unbearable
on the guest free episodes, yes 😂
@@burnttoast9890man if you think TST is one of the bad ones, yikes…
@@Petrospect it's unbearable to me , don't care for the other ones
I might be the only one but I’d love to see a whole episode of Derek talking motorcycles.
Please stop speaking about Quatroporte 5gen nice ones just will get in my financial realm and if it gets so much glorified it will go up 😢
I'm with you, looking at a GT S later this month
Am I the only one yelling cars at my video like a game show?
UP Trends don't 'bottom out"...that's called a dead cat bounce. Forget cars prior to 1964 at this point because " I remember" is crucial to demand; demand is crucial to appreciation, Anyone who can say that about pre-1964 cars is dead or soon will be, and are sellers - not buyers.
Maserati Quattroporte will never be beautiful, especially from the back. Just because it looks like Daewoo Nubira from that angle :D
If you are from eastern Europe (mainly Poland), you know how i feel, those cars were all over the place here.
USA does not have this issue lol
I always look at Nubiras and think "wannabe Quattroporte" but at the same time I don't think the QP is the most beautiful sedan, I think the E39/W124 or any gen XJ other than the 00s aluminum one beat it out for a pure sedan shape though I really like it. Even if I thought it was ugly though, the noise man, the noise. Interesting to hear you don't like the back though...
@@Petrospect If anything, Quattropporte is 'wannabe' Nubira, as Daewoo is an older design.
As for most beautiful sedan, It's probably E46 for me, but that changes daily.
The anniversary Countach is the ugliest model.. would rather not have a countach than drive a 25th.... The "roundbelly" Countach is the one to own
Haha... Hagerty... really?? This is your list?? Anybody who is an avid reader of magazines or follows auction sites already knows most of these have been rising for years or already topped out! Give me a break 🙄
4:22 blah blah blah on that old little cheap Ferrari that nobody likes... everybody hates it... AND I ALWAYS LOVED IT!!!
Carltons are a bad example. Carltons are just export rekords/omegas
still much better without guests so far. still haven’t had a guest yet that hasn’t brought it towards the Smoking Tire vibe. best guest yet, but still a miss IMHO next guest should be Reggie Watts.
Watching Reggie and Cammisa riff off each other would be a real treat!
The notion that your toy car needs to be your 7th or 8th because if it breaks its going to be down seems so out of touch.
I'm bullish on Larry Webster. He had lots of interesting takes and held his own against the full might of Derek's inner monologue. I want more
Honestly I don't even think he's a car enthusiast lol
Oh he very much is!
@@TheCarmudgeonShow you're right I'm perhaps just a bit snobbish, which I know is a terrible trait to have. I guess the list itself just kind of disappointed me because it doesn't alighn with what I, and I would be willing to guess the two of you actually like about cars I appreciate you having him on and really am thankful for everything about the show though, keep up the good work!
Larry webster was not prepared for Derek. May someone who holds basic opinions like "I would never own a RHD car" please never return as a guest, no matter who’s bosses boss they are.
Jason’s propensity to exaggerate makes his opinions difficult to align with.
I'm so sorry, but this extra guy is not a proper car enthusiast lol
Derek and Larry looking out for us E36 people in this one 🫡🫡
Interesting to hear the OG E46 M3 feels unfinished…
ngl i wont be able to watch this because it just hurts seeing a bunch of cars being talked about that will only increase... and i have no money
Its fine buy what Jason dislikes and your good