A Ban On Electric Vehicles - The Carmudgeon Show with Jason Cammisa and Derek from ISSIMI Ep. 61
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2022
- What happens in a theoretical world where electric cars are banned? In this alternate simulation, Jason and Derek imagine a world where electric cars make another disappearance into the depths of history and the consequences that might follow. They also travel down the rabbit hole of alternative fuels and reveal their current disdain of hydrogen fuel cell technology and government handling of alternative fuel distribution. In this current simulation, however, it seems fairly predictable that automotive evolution will give full way to the electric vehicle.
But the popularity of electric vehicles once rose and gave way to gasoline in the early 1900s. To explore where society has come and gone with EVs, Jason and Derek hop in a non-Delorean time machine and explore the beginnings of personal automobiles during a time when steam power, electricity, and gasoline, and diesel lived in harmony and why fossil fuels ultimately prevailed in history.
This leads to a discussion of other general automotive technologies that have standardized or suffered over the years, including but not limited to two-pedal manual transmissions, cylinder deactivation, early CRT touch screens, and other strange and successful engineering choices made by manufactures throughout history. Perhaps Chrysler’s Electronic Voice Alert system will make a comeback someday…
All this and more, brought to you by the Hagerty Podcast Network. 
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I love how in the early episodes Derek is very proper and well spoken and now after 61 episodes he's randomly dropping "Fucking shitheap"
I think he's legally required to refer to the N63 as that.
One benefit of having an analog speedo is measuring the rate of deceleration. Where I live, there are many speed cameras, and by seeing how fast I'm losing speed, I can determine how hard and long I have to push the brakes. With digital speedo, I often brake too early because I can't measure numbers scrolling down.
Had a friend in college who drove a Citroen. One of his favorite stunts with the car was to run it up and down on the hydraulic suspension while sitting next to someone at a red light. Freaked people out.....
He should have gone to a lowrider meet and blown some minds.
They could also run on three wheels if necessary. How's that for freaking people out!
I'm glad to see hyphen's rage against politicians unleashed. Just when I thought I could never relate to him.
This whole episode felt like an early carmudgeon show, two old men screaming at the air and teaching me some history.
I'd love to see an episode on dealerships (experiences good/bad, how you think they'll fare in the future, etc)
episode recommendation- can you just talk about E30s for an hour? that's literally it
Now you're talking. I would seriously listen to a podcast series that is nothing but E30 talk.
As an E30 owner, I support this recommendation. The story of the designer's arrest is a fun one.
@@sterlinghatton7687 Oh yeah, Claus Luthe! He also did E28, E34 and E38 iirc which ofc trickled down to E36 aswell. EVEN STILL iirc after he got out was still a consultant for BMW...as he should because he pretty much helped design the golden age.
Counter-point and I will get shot for this, also discuss if the E36 was the right successor (which I reckon bettered the E30 in every way)
Checking for new upload at 10am on Mondays has been a ritual for me
So a quick lesson on pollution. It's easier to control one point source of pollution than a billion. There can be technology to scrub powerplants to be clean energy. Having 1 billion + little point sources isn't.
And when efficiency advances happen, they're applied at the "source" at once rather than at those millions of endpoints over 20 years
And yet they *don't*
Also, engines get more thermally efficient as they get larger. A powerplant with EVs I'll going to be more efficient than cars with relatively small engines (an 8.4L Viper engine is relatively small compared to a powerplant).
@4:35 i think you are looking for the Peltier cooler, which basically gets hot on one side and cool on the other.. it's found in more inexpensive beverage wine cooler fridges that only cool down to 3-6 degrees with no freezing ability...
And has absolutely terrible efficiency while doing so.
The architecture for EVs need to be improved greatly in order for them to be dominant. Old apartments aren't fitted for them on a mass scale, let alone individually. We have a long way to go as a society before any of this happens.
These technology things flip pretty quick from old to new. Flat panel TVs, cell phones, streaming, etc. 240v chargers are coming to apartments faster than most people realize. It’ll go from nowhere to be found to everywhere all at once.
I’m pretty sure it’s nowhere near as complex as you think it is.
That’s really just a jobs program at the end of the day. There are a range of advantages to be had from upgrading and modernizing our power grid, from both an environmental and a security/geopolitical standpoint. But the roadblocks are things like funding and exactly where we are going to put more wind and solar farms, or convincing people to accept nuclear energy. It’s not so much a technological challenge as it is a policy and public will one.
@@TerryTerius came to say this. It's completely doable and would pay massive dividends over time
My whole block has street parking only.
The French name for the cooler is called a "Peltier device."
Hyphen's rage towards highbeam drivers is gold lol
Thank you for changing back seats
In argument against fuell cell you forget tha production of hydrogen is one of the energy efficient solutions of long term energy storage because maximums of possible energy produciton in Wind, Solar and Hydroelectric powerplants often does not correspond to maximum constuption. In the period of excess producion it is "cheap" to produce hydrogen as a storage medium. And Hyodrogen as as storage medium often is more "convient" as battery because of vastly larger energy density.
"can you imagine if everyone else could be not on the road" is not a dream of EVs, it's a dream of good public transport and walkable neighborhoods. And that's why car enthusiasts should be the biggest advocates of both. Because then all the morons who can't drive to save their lives are off the road.
it's nice to see that people who like cars are starting to realise this
Punish the exception, not the rule... is that what you want? If somebody is a shit driver, we need to cull them from the herd. Otherwise, let the rest of us responsible and skilled people operate the privilege we love.
Your reasoning is so flawed I don’t even know where to start. And I’m a huge proponent and user of public transit.
Fucking finally Americans start to realise it’s not ICE that’s bad, but the society being car-centric.
Yes let's make cars available only to richest of rich people! That's great for motoring as a hobby.
Loved that you guys mentioned public transit. I think public transit is the way for non car enthusiasts. It just sucks that American public transit sucks compared to most of Europe.
The “superior Italian resource management” bit at 45:52 is automotive comedic gold.
With the Wilson pre-selection gearbox internally it was similar to the common automatic gearbox that came out a few years after it. The gear change pedal worked on a series of ratchets and based on which gear you had pre selected when you stomped on the gear change pedal one ratchet would be released and another would be tightened up. These ratchets directly acted on the clutch bands. The clutch bands in a modern automatic gearbox are activated using hydraulic pressure
Thanks for going back to the normal sitting positions
4:45 Hey, fun fact, that's Propane fridges and they're still around. Typically used in RVs and other off-grid applications. The flame boils an ammonia-water solution, the ammonia evaporates first and condenses at the top, then it's put into contact with hydrogen gas which causes an endothermic reaction, that sucks the heat out of your fridge and then the ammonia reabsorbs into the water, recirculates back to the flame and the process continues. You can substitute the flame for an electric heating element, and there's *no* moving parts. The downside is eventually the hydrogen permeates outta the system and then you're just boiling windex, which doesn't cool anything.
I love the immense knowledge and culture these guys bring.
FIRST TIME EVER-
I have in fact driven a 911 “sportomatic”. Never before have I driven a vehicle neither Jason or Derek haven’t. Victory.
I am always curious about EVs, Europe is burning fossil fuels to make electric, then the US grid does not have the capacity to sustain air conditioning, so tell me about the charging utopia?
Germany -> banning porsche from making ICE cars but replacing its clean nuclear power stations with **coal** burning
The answer to the initial question is - it will make no difference. The Supreme Court could indeed rule that any rules forcing car companies to "go electric" are illegal but that does not mean the opposite: that car companies must stop electrifcation. They will be free to carry on as they are. So there will be no change.
Loved the b18 2zz comparison
WRT the discussion of refrigeration at the beginning:
Ammonia, as Derek mentioned, is a technically superior refrigerant to freon. But it lost because it is extremely toxic and flammable - as opposed to freon which is just highly flammable and mildly toxic. Not simply because GE decided they wanted one chemical over the other. You do not want an ammonia based refrigerator in your house.
The thermoelectric effect (aka Peltier effect), as Jason mentioned, is used for very small mini-fridges and occasionally as a supplement to for other cooling or heating system. But it is inefficient and requires a large contact area to move much energy. It usually cannot generate sub-freezing temperatures.
Also, hydrogen is primarily produced through thermal decomposition of natural gas, not electrolysis. Electrolysis is too expensive, energy intensive and slow. Natural gas decomposition is not much better. Either way, Derek is basically right, you're better off just burning the gas to make electricity.
Loved the manual shift pattern discussion, great work guys. Save the manual always...
Hi Jason and hyphen I'm a time traveller and Switzerland have listened to your appeal and banned the EVs .. atleast for this winter
The sad truth is that the majority of drivers see their car as an appliance, like the fridge or microwave. They've somehow escaped the soul-shaking thrill of going fast, nor have they invested the time and effort to appreciate the aesthetic of life. Those are the same people who love electronic gadgets because they're enamored with novelty. I'm not sure there is a fix for this.
It’s interesting to me that more companies aren’t experimenting with carbon capture tech like Porsche was or is doing. Instead of limiting tech development, I think we should be allowing tech to develop in many different avenues while keeping an eye on it. Or instead of the government incentivizing one technology over others, they look at the the top ones with the highest possibility of being successful and telling automakers to do that
Almost choked on my soup while laughing so hard at 52:20, brilliant.
First thing I do Monday morning is check for this video. Thanks guys.
15 years ago I bought an 81 Fleetwood coupe with the 8,6,4 engine for $300 I installed a new fuel pump and battery The car ran buttery smooth most surprising the cylinder deactivation system worked great.
E fuels would be the coolest solution but that would require a lot of innovation in efficiency
This is going to be good. I was wondering when you guys would broach this topic. This is a hot topic.
What fuel cells solve is a rare earth metal problem
Great podcast
C4 Corvette’s digital dash was sick
Don't know if it was intentional or known but a word-for-word Bill Hicks quote in my favorite auto journalists' podcast made my fucking week. I love you guys, never stop.
"How can a door be a jar?"
Also, personal request, I'd love to have an episode about motorcycles, Hyphen's personal collection, and others he really finds interesting.
When Koenigsegg debuted (french word) the Regera, the Hydracoup single-speed torque converter made me think of the Powerglide 2-speed featured in the C1 Corvette.
Hilarious. Excellent & informative!
I’ve always hated my BMW E91 that bongs and displays a door is open only after you start driving. I always interpret it as “haha, now you have to stop idiot”.
Can't stop seeing Derek's triceps....
That deer story is why auto-headlights kind of annoy me at night. I was driving my 2 or 3 day old car late at night at rapid speed (in Mexico) and had an ABS moment because someone's driveway light turned the high beams off and I didn't see the 4 deer chilling in the middle of the street.
I get to watch The Carmudgeon Show and RegularCarReviews on Monday mornings! Lovely. :)
I loved my 1986 300zx turbos digital dash board. Green an accurate. Especially the fuel gage.
I feel the clap struggle, man!
Hyundai Tau V8 ended production sometime this model year. So the last one may have already rolled off the production line. Another one bites the dust...
I have to say as a guy who loves cars and motorcycles. I have no desire to ever buy a electric car, the music of a internal combustion engine will never leave me.
Please never stop.
Give it to me now cause I need it == great episode
Old tech that came back: pre combustion chamber was the cornerstone of the Honda CVCC engine and now it's in the Maserati Nettuno.
I'm only discussing street car engines.
44:05 same with my '13 Volvo S60 when the switch is in the auto position.
On the digital speed readouts, the recently killed-off Acura ILX completely lacked a digital speedometer readout! It was a 2021 without one! Latest one I’ve seen.
Angry Hyphen... let the hate flow through you!!😂
They have their issues… I’ll be the first to admit that, but BMW still has a button on the left hand stalk for auto high beams, as well as the ability to pull towards for flash and push forward for instant on high beams. Im not a fan of the auto high beams either so I appreciate the ability to turn that feature off and use the beams at will.
I consume this gem of an automotive... journalism no 🤔 discussion on my golden throne (twirls mustache) in case Jason is still pondering this question. Also DTS rage mode is quite the sight to behold.
I look forward to solid state batteries becoming the norm.
You guys need to do an episode on the best na 4 cylinders.
The 2zzge was initially developed by Toyota and Yamaha to go into the 7th gen celica and the matrix/corolla xrs with was competing with the Integra at the time. The the falling out of the power band and overrev issues were faults compared to Honda's vtec. I think the earlier 1.6 engines (4age) were better developed than the 2zz. Though Toyota also had a 2.0 liter 3sge that it never brought to the US except in turbo form in the sw20 mr2 and n/a in one previous gen Celica.
To your point about the auto headlamps/high-beams; I had a lightbulb moment while watching this. I have a '22 CX5 Kuro (digital dash in this Canadian trim) and you cannot turn the headlamps into the "OFF" position on the stalk. It just bounces back to the "Auto" setting. Also, same as the Benz Jason was ranting about, you can only put the high-beams "ON" when you move the headlight switch into the "ON" position, or switch the auto high-beams off in the settings menu. Normally I like the auto function, but to Jason's point, I had a drive the other evening where the auto high beams simply REFUSED to turn on while driving on dark rural roads. That was a "WTF is going on" moment for sure.
So true about the Taos. My dad has an AWD SEL one with the 7 speed DSG and it does the SAME thing. The short shifting is so annoying because when I was driving it, I feel like you have to hit the throttle pedal more than 50% to get it to downshift, which gets you into the neck snapping jerkiness Jason mentions. Otherwise it feels like you’re lugging the engine which we know isn’t great (LSPI).
Also yes, I see easily 3-5 cars per night driving with the headlights off. 🤦🏻♂️ Driver assists have made drivers dumber in my opinion. It enables us to pay LESS attention.
I’ve often wondered why people drive with lights off…newer cars illuminate the dash even with headlights off! You can drive late into dusk and people think their lights are on because they can see their gauges…Older cars from the 70s and 80s only had dash lights come on with the headlights so it was evident when your lights weren’t on… why did they change this if my understanding is correct it seems really stupid to me
At exactly time of court question a tequila commercial started 😂
I’ve got a 03 Pontiac Bonneville. If your windshield wiper reservoir is empty the car will Bing at you every couple of minutes while you’re driving. If your gas tank is almost empty it will bing at you once and then never do it again until you turn the car off and on again. Apparently Pontiac finds wiper fluid more critical to car operation than gas.
I had a similar 'auto-stop' experience to Jason in a Tesla. The owner had dropped it off and left with they key-card (i suspect intentionally so he could try activating the car remotely). After he let me in the car, when pulling it onto the lift I leaned out of the driver's seat, and it FREAKED OUT. Is suppose because the key-card was not present it not only stopped the car but completely shut down, locking me inside. I had to bang on the windows and scream like I was in a horror movie until a coworker finally came to my rescue and called the owner to 'disarm' the stupid car.
I will say I really like having the digital speed readout on my dashboard so I can glance at my dash and know, to the mile an hour, exactly how fast I am going to make sure that I am following the speed limit.
I'm surprised no mention of the Chrysler Turbine car when mentioning "alternate options". Something that was put out to pasture far too early and had promise.
Edit: Ok, only a slight mention....
6:08 I understand hes saying this is the way they're hoping to make hydrogen, but right now hydrogen is predominantly manufactured by cracking fossil fuels.. I think about 95% of the world hydrogen supply comes from fossil fuels (its called steam reforming), 5% from electrolysis.
On the high beam subject (100% agreed it’s stupid the way it’s engineered) a way around it is to turn the auto high beam on before start driving and then you can use it normally. It’s more complicated than it should be, but… you know… modern cars.
marie dash kondo there at the end. does this ICE bring me joy?
Volvo has a great HBA system, selector set to auto, there is an additional spring loaded position on the switch for HBA to enable it, and a forward push will override HBA
There is a way of knowing your lights are on....the GREEN headlight icon on. The other issue is some of the DRLs are so bright that in SOCAL you can't tell your lights aren't on. Too many street ligths and other cars.
I personally drive with all of the gauges turned off at night. While this might be a terrible idea on it’s own at least you can be sure that my headlights are on.
2011 Toyota Highlander Limited (fully analog gauges)
Always fun guys… really
Phoebus lightbulb cartel comes to mind
1927 DueseyOHC
1930? Cord 810 elect shift
1947 Tucker turnlight&seatbelts
Emperor Franz Joseph had an electric car. And he died in 1916. (It's in a Museum run by a Piech in Austria) As for the digital displays in cars, i have no clue how it is with current cars (my cars are 10 and 12 years old) but the LCDs always are very slow to respond in very cold temperatures. (So starting the car in -10°C means the numbers on a digital dash are lagging severely while the analogue ones never did that to my knowledge)
I disgree with you on the Mercedes way of the automatic High beams, but i do also despise automatic highbeams in general. The Mercedes way works for me as it allows me to either use the automatc highbeams (which i don't) or use the manual highbeams like it was with all the cars before. And if you use the automatic highbeams it gives you the option to switch them off fast for the many cases where it will still blind someone. (like when the barriers between directional lanes prevent the system from "seeing the lights of oncomming traffic, but the eyes of said traffig are above the barrier and get blinded by the highbeams.)
Also, i think you guys are too optimistic, when all these "transport" people go electric, they for sure won't let us "pollute the envirement" with enjoyable ICE cars.
On the topic of high beams: people who fit LEDs to cars that used to run the highs on low power as DRLs
Next show topic suggestion: comfort en cars
Show idea: Maserati, from glory to gross. What caused the fall of the image of Maserati, did Maserati start making good cars again? Why? How?, is Maserati an exotic
Maserati has never made a single car from the ground up, by themselves that is worth talking about. All the cool ones were just rebadged Ferraris
@@leviathan5207 rebadged Ferraris? Like what?
@@leviathan5207
If you are talking about post-1997 Maserati, you might have a case of some kind. But Maserati had a long history as an independent car maker, which include the original Ghibili and Quattroporte in the 1960s.
Went full curmudgeon talking about the auto headlights in this carmudgeon episode. Lol
Magnifique épisode de "Auto-mudgêon" !
Les accents superbes !
But I will say I think the CX looks even more space age than the DS even if it's sort of...70s. Not necessarily a bad thing, though.
The seatbelt warning is the most irritating thing in my parent's new Yaris when passengers have just entered the car and proceed to chat instead of putting on their stupid seatbelt.
My E36 has zero bongs. Absolute. Bliss.
@59:10 : Incorrect. Ford has one production cam-in-block V8: The 7.3L Godzilla motor.
1972 CERN touch screens
(1986? For the Buick)
The Vector W8 TT Dash or AM Lagonda come to mind at 37:55.
Hyphen straight after recording “Siri give me all the information you have on electric driven turbocharger”
F1 has electric integrated turbos with no bypass valves just using regen to slow the turbo to change the battery. Then when boost is low they spool it with the motor.
Hyphen (or since I'm from the future of this podcast, should I refer to him as Double Hyphen?) is wrong about technology and the government, the US government has been at the forefront of many technologies, including you know, the internet (see: ARPANET).
Proud to be canadian ! lol
The ghost cars on the roads here is very frequent.
Wow. A TI-99 voice synthesizer reference. You don't hear that every day.
Come to the UK and find out how many can't use indicators when turning!
Ammonia based refrigerants are more efficient but also more dangerous if your home fridge system leaks in your house.
Regarding electric , 1915 cost was a thing vs. Gas
I’m so happy I’m not the only one angry about Nissan drivers with their lights off!!!
As of first of July, the 760 is a I6 Hybrid, BMW doesn't have a V12 anymore
The effect is the Peltier effect
If there’s demand for non EVs in the US at least it will be met. Luckily for us, the US exists on borrowed time, so too does the EPA
Thank God, they're in their correct seats. I need help.
Abarth 124 does not have a digital read out. You can digitally set the cruise but there’s no digital speed read out…
Just started valeting/washing cars at a Toyota dealership and I can attest to both the seatbelt “bling” being annoying as fuck and the cars throwing themselves in park (my boss was trying to send a car through the car wash that I was in, as I pulled to a stop at the start of the wash I popped the car in neutral (you need to for the wash) and closed the windows and checked to make sure my door was shut, then when the car wash started I didn’t move and my boss started yelling at me to put it in neutral which I had already done, well, low and behold, at some point in my pre wash checks the car had automatically put itself in park and thrown the e brake on for good measure, stupid fucking car). I’ve also had a car (a Prius) start, tell me that I was in reverse, then when I took my foot off the brake and press the gas I rolled forward nearly hitting another before I caught it…
Apartments that have street only parking. Not EV friendly.
Wait....
We can replace trees with charging stations.
🤯
EVs are not going to make any sense for many locales in the United States. Just because it works in Europe doesn’t mean that it would work here. It’s hilarious to think that there won’t be regionally specific emissions regulations and markets like there literally are right now.
They don’t work in Europe either. Unless you’re a wealthy urbanite with your own garage in a building that has an adequate power coming to it and you’ll only charge there.