One benefit of having an analog speedo is measuring the rate of deceleration. Where I live, there are many speed cameras, and by seeing how fast I'm losing speed, I can determine how hard and long I have to push the brakes. With digital speedo, I often brake too early because I can't measure numbers scrolling down.
This whole episode felt like an early carmudgeon show, two old men screaming at the air and teaching me some history. I'd love to see an episode on dealerships (experiences good/bad, how you think they'll fare in the future, etc)
Had a friend in college who drove a Citroen. One of his favorite stunts with the car was to run it up and down on the hydraulic suspension while sitting next to someone at a red light. Freaked people out.....
"can you imagine if everyone else could be not on the road" is not a dream of EVs, it's a dream of good public transport and walkable neighborhoods. And that's why car enthusiasts should be the biggest advocates of both. Because then all the morons who can't drive to save their lives are off the road.
Punish the exception, not the rule... is that what you want? If somebody is a shit driver, we need to cull them from the herd. Otherwise, let the rest of us responsible and skilled people operate the privilege we love.
4:45 Hey, fun fact, that's Propane fridges and they're still around. Typically used in RVs and other off-grid applications. The flame boils an ammonia-water solution, the ammonia evaporates first and condenses at the top, then it's put into contact with hydrogen gas which causes an endothermic reaction, that sucks the heat out of your fridge and then the ammonia reabsorbs into the water, recirculates back to the flame and the process continues. You can substitute the flame for an electric heating element, and there's *no* moving parts. The downside is eventually the hydrogen permeates outta the system and then you're just boiling windex, which doesn't cool anything.
The architecture for EVs need to be improved greatly in order for them to be dominant. Old apartments aren't fitted for them on a mass scale, let alone individually. We have a long way to go as a society before any of this happens.
These technology things flip pretty quick from old to new. Flat panel TVs, cell phones, streaming, etc. 240v chargers are coming to apartments faster than most people realize. It’ll go from nowhere to be found to everywhere all at once.
That’s really just a jobs program at the end of the day. There are a range of advantages to be had from upgrading and modernizing our power grid, from both an environmental and a security/geopolitical standpoint. But the roadblocks are things like funding and exactly where we are going to put more wind and solar farms, or convincing people to accept nuclear energy. It’s not so much a technological challenge as it is a policy and public will one.
@@sterlinghatton7687 Oh yeah, Claus Luthe! He also did E28, E34 and E38 iirc which ofc trickled down to E36 aswell. EVEN STILL iirc after he got out was still a consultant for BMW...as he should because he pretty much helped design the golden age. Counter-point and I will get shot for this, also discuss if the E36 was the right successor (which I reckon bettered the E30 in every way)
So a quick lesson on pollution. It's easier to control one point source of pollution than a billion. There can be technology to scrub powerplants to be clean energy. Having 1 billion + little point sources isn't.
Also, engines get more thermally efficient as they get larger. A powerplant with EVs I'll going to be more efficient than cars with relatively small engines (an 8.4L Viper engine is relatively small compared to a powerplant).
@4:35 i think you are looking for the Peltier cooler, which basically gets hot on one side and cool on the other.. it's found in more inexpensive beverage wine cooler fridges that only cool down to 3-6 degrees with no freezing ability...
It’s interesting to me that more companies aren’t experimenting with carbon capture tech like Porsche was or is doing. Instead of limiting tech development, I think we should be allowing tech to develop in many different avenues while keeping an eye on it. Or instead of the government incentivizing one technology over others, they look at the the top ones with the highest possibility of being successful and telling automakers to do that
Loved that you guys mentioned public transit. I think public transit is the way for non car enthusiasts. It just sucks that American public transit sucks compared to most of Europe.
With the Wilson pre-selection gearbox internally it was similar to the common automatic gearbox that came out a few years after it. The gear change pedal worked on a series of ratchets and based on which gear you had pre selected when you stomped on the gear change pedal one ratchet would be released and another would be tightened up. These ratchets directly acted on the clutch bands. The clutch bands in a modern automatic gearbox are activated using hydraulic pressure
In argument against fuell cell you forget tha production of hydrogen is one of the energy efficient solutions of long term energy storage because maximums of possible energy produciton in Wind, Solar and Hydroelectric powerplants often does not correspond to maximum constuption. In the period of excess producion it is "cheap" to produce hydrogen as a storage medium. And Hyodrogen as as storage medium often is more "convient" as battery because of vastly larger energy density.
The sad truth is that the majority of drivers see their car as an appliance, like the fridge or microwave. They've somehow escaped the soul-shaking thrill of going fast, nor have they invested the time and effort to appreciate the aesthetic of life. Those are the same people who love electronic gadgets because they're enamored with novelty. I'm not sure there is a fix for this.
WRT the discussion of refrigeration at the beginning: Ammonia, as Derek mentioned, is a technically superior refrigerant to freon. But it lost because it is extremely toxic and flammable - as opposed to freon which is just highly flammable and mildly toxic. Not simply because GE decided they wanted one chemical over the other. You do not want an ammonia based refrigerator in your house. The thermoelectric effect (aka Peltier effect), as Jason mentioned, is used for very small mini-fridges and occasionally as a supplement to for other cooling or heating system. But it is inefficient and requires a large contact area to move much energy. It usually cannot generate sub-freezing temperatures. Also, hydrogen is primarily produced through thermal decomposition of natural gas, not electrolysis. Electrolysis is too expensive, energy intensive and slow. Natural gas decomposition is not much better. Either way, Derek is basically right, you're better off just burning the gas to make electricity.
The answer to the initial question is - it will make no difference. The Supreme Court could indeed rule that any rules forcing car companies to "go electric" are illegal but that does not mean the opposite: that car companies must stop electrifcation. They will be free to carry on as they are. So there will be no change.
Don't know if it was intentional or known but a word-for-word Bill Hicks quote in my favorite auto journalists' podcast made my fucking week. I love you guys, never stop. "How can a door be a jar?" Also, personal request, I'd love to have an episode about motorcycles, Hyphen's personal collection, and others he really finds interesting.
15 years ago I bought an 81 Fleetwood coupe with the 8,6,4 engine for $300 I installed a new fuel pump and battery The car ran buttery smooth most surprising the cylinder deactivation system worked great.
I am always curious about EVs, Europe is burning fossil fuels to make electric, then the US grid does not have the capacity to sustain air conditioning, so tell me about the charging utopia?
I have to say as a guy who loves cars and motorcycles. I have no desire to ever buy a electric car, the music of a internal combustion engine will never leave me.
The problem with this mandate for ending ICE vehicles for electric is there will never be infrastructure for charging that many electric cars. Especially in major cities where people park on the street. Even if you put outlets on the curb, they will never be maintained properly. Even now they aren't. Owners of charging stations are having problems collecting rent on chargers at private businesses. Government isnt qualified to make these mandates as they only use information given to them by lobbyists. They never solve problems, they create new problems.
The problem with this mandate for ending horse and buggy for gasoline vehicles is there will never be infrastructure for fueling that many gasoline cars. That's how you sound.
@@galactictomato1434 I don't live in a fantasy world. Just in the last few weeks I've watched at least 5 videos on electric cars where the vlogger had to find an alternate charger. Out of order, not enough time to sit that long, bagged chargers because property owner hasn't been paid rent on them. I'm not against electric cars, I've been following Aptera to see if they will start production. If I want to take my Volvo 1800 s on a road trip though, I don't want government telling me I can't. By the way, there are still horse and buggy on the roads. There wasn't a mandate for that. It was freedom of choice. Ever hear of FREEDOM? Go listen to big name auto execs like Bob Lutz from GM. They have been planning the socialist evolution of the industry for decades. You may be too stupid to make decisions for yourself but a lot of people aren't and there is a worldwide push against government dictating stupidity going on now. Pay attention
@@galactictomato1434 the ICE world took a half a century or more to build out to what it is now but the goberments want the EV world to replace the ICE world in just a few decades come hell or high water. That’s a problem. ICE happened holistically with the infrastructure buildout but EV is being forced upon us atomistically.
I pity the man who speaks in absolutes. To say that government can't do good is to ignore the rights you enjoy. Who do you think enforces those rights? Government agents, by and large. To see all government as a problem is to see the Clean Air and Clean Water act as a problem. Or, for a more romantic example, to see the US declaration of war on Nazi Germany as a problem. You sound a fool, claiming these absolutist positions. Patently false and not really forwarding your argument about EVs at all.
That deer story is why auto-headlights kind of annoy me at night. I was driving my 2 or 3 day old car late at night at rapid speed (in Mexico) and had an ABS moment because someone's driveway light turned the high beams off and I didn't see the 4 deer chilling in the middle of the street.
When Koenigsegg debuted (french word) the Regera, the Hydracoup single-speed torque converter made me think of the Powerglide 2-speed featured in the C1 Corvette.
I’ve got a 03 Pontiac Bonneville. If your windshield wiper reservoir is empty the car will Bing at you every couple of minutes while you’re driving. If your gas tank is almost empty it will bing at you once and then never do it again until you turn the car off and on again. Apparently Pontiac finds wiper fluid more critical to car operation than gas.
I’ve always hated my BMW E91 that bongs and displays a door is open only after you start driving. I always interpret it as “haha, now you have to stop idiot”.
Old tech that came back: pre combustion chamber was the cornerstone of the Honda CVCC engine and now it's in the Maserati Nettuno. I'm only discussing street car engines.
6:08 I understand hes saying this is the way they're hoping to make hydrogen, but right now hydrogen is predominantly manufactured by cracking fossil fuels.. I think about 95% of the world hydrogen supply comes from fossil fuels (its called steam reforming), 5% from electrolysis.
It isn't about the government, it's about the people. The vast majority of people make economic decisions, not environmental decisions. So long as an EV is more expensive than ICE cars, most people will buy ICE cars. Intervention is needed or the vast majority of commuter cars will remain ICE when they could be more efficient EVs with a little subsidy (and hopefully in time economies of scale make EVs competitive on their own). Obviously long haul trucks and other applications will remain ICE until the tech improves, but short distance cars need to be converted if we have a hope in hell of keeping Paris Agreement CO2 emission levels. Transport is a huge part of CO2 emissions.
There is a way of knowing your lights are on....the GREEN headlight icon on. The other issue is some of the DRLs are so bright that in SOCAL you can't tell your lights aren't on. Too many street ligths and other cars.
On the digital speed readouts, the recently killed-off Acura ILX completely lacked a digital speedometer readout! It was a 2021 without one! Latest one I’ve seen.
Hyundai Tau V8 ended production sometime this model year. So the last one may have already rolled off the production line. Another one bites the dust...
They have their issues… I’ll be the first to admit that, but BMW still has a button on the left hand stalk for auto high beams, as well as the ability to pull towards for flash and push forward for instant on high beams. Im not a fan of the auto high beams either so I appreciate the ability to turn that feature off and use the beams at will.
I had a similar 'auto-stop' experience to Jason in a Tesla. The owner had dropped it off and left with they key-card (i suspect intentionally so he could try activating the car remotely). After he let me in the car, when pulling it onto the lift I leaned out of the driver's seat, and it FREAKED OUT. Is suppose because the key-card was not present it not only stopped the car but completely shut down, locking me inside. I had to bang on the windows and scream like I was in a horror movie until a coworker finally came to my rescue and called the owner to 'disarm' the stupid car.
Hyphen (or since I'm from the future of this podcast, should I refer to him as Double Hyphen?) is wrong about technology and the government, the US government has been at the forefront of many technologies, including you know, the internet (see: ARPANET).
Magnifique épisode de "Auto-mudgêon" ! Les accents superbes ! But I will say I think the CX looks even more space age than the DS even if it's sort of...70s. Not necessarily a bad thing, though. The seatbelt warning is the most irritating thing in my parent's new Yaris when passengers have just entered the car and proceed to chat instead of putting on their stupid seatbelt. My E36 has zero bongs. Absolute. Bliss.
I will say I really like having the digital speed readout on my dashboard so I can glance at my dash and know, to the mile an hour, exactly how fast I am going to make sure that I am following the speed limit.
To your point about the auto headlamps/high-beams; I had a lightbulb moment while watching this. I have a '22 CX5 Kuro (digital dash in this Canadian trim) and you cannot turn the headlamps into the "OFF" position on the stalk. It just bounces back to the "Auto" setting. Also, same as the Benz Jason was ranting about, you can only put the high-beams "ON" when you move the headlight switch into the "ON" position, or switch the auto high-beams off in the settings menu. Normally I like the auto function, but to Jason's point, I had a drive the other evening where the auto high beams simply REFUSED to turn on while driving on dark rural roads. That was a "WTF is going on" moment for sure.
I'm surprised no mention of the Chrysler Turbine car when mentioning "alternate options". Something that was put out to pasture far too early and had promise. Edit: Ok, only a slight mention....
So true about the Taos. My dad has an AWD SEL one with the 7 speed DSG and it does the SAME thing. The short shifting is so annoying because when I was driving it, I feel like you have to hit the throttle pedal more than 50% to get it to downshift, which gets you into the neck snapping jerkiness Jason mentions. Otherwise it feels like you’re lugging the engine which we know isn’t great (LSPI). Also yes, I see easily 3-5 cars per night driving with the headlights off. 🤦🏻♂️ Driver assists have made drivers dumber in my opinion. It enables us to pay LESS attention.
Volvo has a great HBA system, selector set to auto, there is an additional spring loaded position on the switch for HBA to enable it, and a forward push will override HBA
You guys need to do an episode on the best na 4 cylinders. The 2zzge was initially developed by Toyota and Yamaha to go into the 7th gen celica and the matrix/corolla xrs with was competing with the Integra at the time. The the falling out of the power band and overrev issues were faults compared to Honda's vtec. I think the earlier 1.6 engines (4age) were better developed than the 2zz. Though Toyota also had a 2.0 liter 3sge that it never brought to the US except in turbo form in the sw20 mr2 and n/a in one previous gen Celica.
I’ve often wondered why people drive with lights off…newer cars illuminate the dash even with headlights off! You can drive late into dusk and people think their lights are on because they can see their gauges…Older cars from the 70s and 80s only had dash lights come on with the headlights so it was evident when your lights weren’t on… why did they change this if my understanding is correct it seems really stupid to me
On the high beam subject (100% agreed it’s stupid the way it’s engineered) a way around it is to turn the auto high beam on before start driving and then you can use it normally. It’s more complicated than it should be, but… you know… modern cars.
F1 has electric integrated turbos with no bypass valves just using regen to slow the turbo to change the battery. Then when boost is low they spool it with the motor.
Emperor Franz Joseph had an electric car. And he died in 1916. (It's in a Museum run by a Piech in Austria) As for the digital displays in cars, i have no clue how it is with current cars (my cars are 10 and 12 years old) but the LCDs always are very slow to respond in very cold temperatures. (So starting the car in -10°C means the numbers on a digital dash are lagging severely while the analogue ones never did that to my knowledge) I disgree with you on the Mercedes way of the automatic High beams, but i do also despise automatic highbeams in general. The Mercedes way works for me as it allows me to either use the automatc highbeams (which i don't) or use the manual highbeams like it was with all the cars before. And if you use the automatic highbeams it gives you the option to switch them off fast for the many cases where it will still blind someone. (like when the barriers between directional lanes prevent the system from "seeing the lights of oncomming traffic, but the eyes of said traffig are above the barrier and get blinded by the highbeams.) Also, i think you guys are too optimistic, when all these "transport" people go electric, they for sure won't let us "pollute the envirement" with enjoyable ICE cars.
There's zero chance the court would ban EVs. Respectfully, that's sheltered San Francisco paranoia. The court only has the ability to decide cases brought before it, so it would require the legislature to ban EVs first and then the court could OK it or whatever. What they could do is un-ban internal combustion. That's legislation already in place and therefore the court could give an opinion on it. Also, the predominant sentiment in the court right now is constitutional originslism. As with Roe, the court is likely to believe that since none of this authority is granted in the Constitution, it is therefore a State-level issue. California can have their EV mandate just as they still have abortion rights. This is an anti-legislative court. If the influence of Europe and everywhere else is great enough to force the automakers to invest in EV technology, then they'll still do it. But there could well remain a domestic market for internal combustion which would fail to be eradicated.
EVs are not going to make any sense for many locales in the United States. Just because it works in Europe doesn’t mean that it would work here. It’s hilarious to think that there won’t be regionally specific emissions regulations and markets like there literally are right now.
They don’t work in Europe either. Unless you’re a wealthy urbanite with your own garage in a building that has an adequate power coming to it and you’ll only charge there.
I love how obvious it is that Derek and Jason don’t care about racing. Putting a motor on the turbo shaft, whilst ingenious, is not new. F1 has had it since 2014.
Slight issue with the argument: the supreme court can't ban electric cars. Congress or the states could ban electric cars. If it went to the supreme court, the supreme court would decide if the Senate or states could ban electric cars. We live in a sad state when a RUclips commenter has to explain how government works :)
SCOTUS can prevent the EPA from banning ICE though. The EPA has a history of far overstepping its authority to legislate (though really all legislation is written by beaurocrats now, the legislature is just there to rubber stamp).
I personally drive with all of the gauges turned off at night. While this might be a terrible idea on it’s own at least you can be sure that my headlights are on.
Re: fuel cells - Remember, you don't just "put electricity into cars" either, there is always a carbon cost associated with any production process. Hydrogen usage is a technology problem that can be overcome.
4:50 does anyone know what refrigeration technology he's talking about? The vapor-compression cycle (what is used in refrigerators, AC units, etc) is pretty widely know to be the most efficent and practical refrigeration technology. Honestly if there was a better one, pretty sure manufacturer's would have developed it and switch to it if it was better. That space is pretty competitive, and they would love to have a tech that their competitors don't. Ammonia is a more efficient refrigerant, but its not used because of its toxicity. Don't want to wake up dead one night.
Just started valeting/washing cars at a Toyota dealership and I can attest to both the seatbelt “bling” being annoying as fuck and the cars throwing themselves in park (my boss was trying to send a car through the car wash that I was in, as I pulled to a stop at the start of the wash I popped the car in neutral (you need to for the wash) and closed the windows and checked to make sure my door was shut, then when the car wash started I didn’t move and my boss started yelling at me to put it in neutral which I had already done, well, low and behold, at some point in my pre wash checks the car had automatically put itself in park and thrown the e brake on for good measure, stupid fucking car). I’ve also had a car (a Prius) start, tell me that I was in reverse, then when I took my foot off the brake and press the gas I rolled forward nearly hitting another before I caught it…
A really big problem with EVs (at least in europe) is that the power grid of most countries is not capable of sustaining the load of charge needed by an EV population equal to the current gas car population (considering that most charging is done at home). Wich indicates the need for country wide reforms in the non-industrial power grid. Added to that another problem is that the materials needed for current battery technology are some of the rarest in the world and there is not enough of them to build such population on the fist place. Even considering a huge leap in battery technology in the next cuple years is provable that most of the legislations regarding the prohibition of gas powered cars might have to be delayed due to limitations in EV production and power grid infrastructure.
I consume this gem of an automotive... journalism no 🤔 discussion on my golden throne (twirls mustache) in case Jason is still pondering this question. Also DTS rage mode is quite the sight to behold.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I love how in the early episodes Derek is very proper and well spoken and now after 61 episodes he's randomly dropping "Fucking shitheap"
I think he's legally required to refer to the N63 as that.
One benefit of having an analog speedo is measuring the rate of deceleration. Where I live, there are many speed cameras, and by seeing how fast I'm losing speed, I can determine how hard and long I have to push the brakes. With digital speedo, I often brake too early because I can't measure numbers scrolling down.
This whole episode felt like an early carmudgeon show, two old men screaming at the air and teaching me some history.
I'd love to see an episode on dealerships (experiences good/bad, how you think they'll fare in the future, etc)
I'm glad to see hyphen's rage against politicians unleashed. Just when I thought I could never relate to him.
Had a friend in college who drove a Citroen. One of his favorite stunts with the car was to run it up and down on the hydraulic suspension while sitting next to someone at a red light. Freaked people out.....
He should have gone to a lowrider meet and blown some minds.
They could also run on three wheels if necessary. How's that for freaking people out!
"can you imagine if everyone else could be not on the road" is not a dream of EVs, it's a dream of good public transport and walkable neighborhoods. And that's why car enthusiasts should be the biggest advocates of both. Because then all the morons who can't drive to save their lives are off the road.
it's nice to see that people who like cars are starting to realise this
Punish the exception, not the rule... is that what you want? If somebody is a shit driver, we need to cull them from the herd. Otherwise, let the rest of us responsible and skilled people operate the privilege we love.
Your reasoning is so flawed I don’t even know where to start. And I’m a huge proponent and user of public transit.
Fucking finally Americans start to realise it’s not ICE that’s bad, but the society being car-centric.
Yes let's make cars available only to richest of rich people! That's great for motoring as a hobby.
4:45 Hey, fun fact, that's Propane fridges and they're still around. Typically used in RVs and other off-grid applications. The flame boils an ammonia-water solution, the ammonia evaporates first and condenses at the top, then it's put into contact with hydrogen gas which causes an endothermic reaction, that sucks the heat out of your fridge and then the ammonia reabsorbs into the water, recirculates back to the flame and the process continues. You can substitute the flame for an electric heating element, and there's *no* moving parts. The downside is eventually the hydrogen permeates outta the system and then you're just boiling windex, which doesn't cool anything.
The architecture for EVs need to be improved greatly in order for them to be dominant. Old apartments aren't fitted for them on a mass scale, let alone individually. We have a long way to go as a society before any of this happens.
These technology things flip pretty quick from old to new. Flat panel TVs, cell phones, streaming, etc. 240v chargers are coming to apartments faster than most people realize. It’ll go from nowhere to be found to everywhere all at once.
I’m pretty sure it’s nowhere near as complex as you think it is.
That’s really just a jobs program at the end of the day. There are a range of advantages to be had from upgrading and modernizing our power grid, from both an environmental and a security/geopolitical standpoint. But the roadblocks are things like funding and exactly where we are going to put more wind and solar farms, or convincing people to accept nuclear energy. It’s not so much a technological challenge as it is a policy and public will one.
@@TerryTerius came to say this. It's completely doable and would pay massive dividends over time
My whole block has street parking only.
Checking for new upload at 10am on Mondays has been a ritual for me
episode recommendation- can you just talk about E30s for an hour? that's literally it
Now you're talking. I would seriously listen to a podcast series that is nothing but E30 talk.
As an E30 owner, I support this recommendation. The story of the designer's arrest is a fun one.
@@sterlinghatton7687 Oh yeah, Claus Luthe! He also did E28, E34 and E38 iirc which ofc trickled down to E36 aswell. EVEN STILL iirc after he got out was still a consultant for BMW...as he should because he pretty much helped design the golden age.
Counter-point and I will get shot for this, also discuss if the E36 was the right successor (which I reckon bettered the E30 in every way)
So a quick lesson on pollution. It's easier to control one point source of pollution than a billion. There can be technology to scrub powerplants to be clean energy. Having 1 billion + little point sources isn't.
And when efficiency advances happen, they're applied at the "source" at once rather than at those millions of endpoints over 20 years
And yet they *don't*
Also, engines get more thermally efficient as they get larger. A powerplant with EVs I'll going to be more efficient than cars with relatively small engines (an 8.4L Viper engine is relatively small compared to a powerplant).
@4:35 i think you are looking for the Peltier cooler, which basically gets hot on one side and cool on the other.. it's found in more inexpensive beverage wine cooler fridges that only cool down to 3-6 degrees with no freezing ability...
And has absolutely terrible efficiency while doing so.
I love the immense knowledge and culture these guys bring.
It’s interesting to me that more companies aren’t experimenting with carbon capture tech like Porsche was or is doing. Instead of limiting tech development, I think we should be allowing tech to develop in many different avenues while keeping an eye on it. Or instead of the government incentivizing one technology over others, they look at the the top ones with the highest possibility of being successful and telling automakers to do that
Thank you for changing back seats
Loved that you guys mentioned public transit. I think public transit is the way for non car enthusiasts. It just sucks that American public transit sucks compared to most of Europe.
Hyphen's rage towards highbeam drivers is gold lol
With the Wilson pre-selection gearbox internally it was similar to the common automatic gearbox that came out a few years after it. The gear change pedal worked on a series of ratchets and based on which gear you had pre selected when you stomped on the gear change pedal one ratchet would be released and another would be tightened up. These ratchets directly acted on the clutch bands. The clutch bands in a modern automatic gearbox are activated using hydraulic pressure
In argument against fuell cell you forget tha production of hydrogen is one of the energy efficient solutions of long term energy storage because maximums of possible energy produciton in Wind, Solar and Hydroelectric powerplants often does not correspond to maximum constuption. In the period of excess producion it is "cheap" to produce hydrogen as a storage medium. And Hyodrogen as as storage medium often is more "convient" as battery because of vastly larger energy density.
The “superior Italian resource management” bit at 45:52 is automotive comedic gold.
The sad truth is that the majority of drivers see their car as an appliance, like the fridge or microwave. They've somehow escaped the soul-shaking thrill of going fast, nor have they invested the time and effort to appreciate the aesthetic of life. Those are the same people who love electronic gadgets because they're enamored with novelty. I'm not sure there is a fix for this.
WRT the discussion of refrigeration at the beginning:
Ammonia, as Derek mentioned, is a technically superior refrigerant to freon. But it lost because it is extremely toxic and flammable - as opposed to freon which is just highly flammable and mildly toxic. Not simply because GE decided they wanted one chemical over the other. You do not want an ammonia based refrigerator in your house.
The thermoelectric effect (aka Peltier effect), as Jason mentioned, is used for very small mini-fridges and occasionally as a supplement to for other cooling or heating system. But it is inefficient and requires a large contact area to move much energy. It usually cannot generate sub-freezing temperatures.
Also, hydrogen is primarily produced through thermal decomposition of natural gas, not electrolysis. Electrolysis is too expensive, energy intensive and slow. Natural gas decomposition is not much better. Either way, Derek is basically right, you're better off just burning the gas to make electricity.
The French name for the cooler is called a "Peltier device."
FIRST TIME EVER-
I have in fact driven a 911 “sportomatic”. Never before have I driven a vehicle neither Jason or Derek haven’t. Victory.
Thanks for going back to the normal sitting positions
Loved the b18 2zz comparison
Loved the manual shift pattern discussion, great work guys. Save the manual always...
The answer to the initial question is - it will make no difference. The Supreme Court could indeed rule that any rules forcing car companies to "go electric" are illegal but that does not mean the opposite: that car companies must stop electrifcation. They will be free to carry on as they are. So there will be no change.
Don't know if it was intentional or known but a word-for-word Bill Hicks quote in my favorite auto journalists' podcast made my fucking week. I love you guys, never stop.
"How can a door be a jar?"
Also, personal request, I'd love to have an episode about motorcycles, Hyphen's personal collection, and others he really finds interesting.
First thing I do Monday morning is check for this video. Thanks guys.
Hi Jason and hyphen I'm a time traveller and Switzerland have listened to your appeal and banned the EVs .. atleast for this winter
15 years ago I bought an 81 Fleetwood coupe with the 8,6,4 engine for $300 I installed a new fuel pump and battery The car ran buttery smooth most surprising the cylinder deactivation system worked great.
I get to watch The Carmudgeon Show and RegularCarReviews on Monday mornings! Lovely. :)
I am always curious about EVs, Europe is burning fossil fuels to make electric, then the US grid does not have the capacity to sustain air conditioning, so tell me about the charging utopia?
Germany -> banning porsche from making ICE cars but replacing its clean nuclear power stations with **coal** burning
I have to say as a guy who loves cars and motorcycles. I have no desire to ever buy a electric car, the music of a internal combustion engine will never leave me.
The problem with this mandate for ending ICE vehicles for electric is there will never be infrastructure for charging that many electric cars. Especially in major cities where people park on the street. Even if you put outlets on the curb, they will never be maintained properly. Even now they aren't. Owners of charging stations are having problems collecting rent on chargers at private businesses.
Government isnt qualified to make these mandates as they only use information given to them by lobbyists. They never solve problems, they create new problems.
The problem with this mandate for ending horse and buggy for gasoline vehicles is there will never be infrastructure for fueling that many gasoline cars.
That's how you sound.
@@galactictomato1434 I don't live in a fantasy world. Just in the last few weeks I've watched at least 5 videos on electric cars where the vlogger had to find an alternate charger. Out of order, not enough time to sit that long, bagged chargers because property owner hasn't been paid rent on them.
I'm not against electric cars, I've been following Aptera to see if they will start production. If I want to take my Volvo 1800 s on a road trip though, I don't want government telling me I can't.
By the way, there are still horse and buggy on the roads. There wasn't a mandate for that. It was freedom of choice. Ever hear of FREEDOM?
Go listen to big name auto execs like Bob Lutz from GM. They have been planning the socialist evolution of the industry for decades. You may be too stupid to make decisions for yourself but a lot of people aren't and there is a worldwide push against government dictating stupidity going on now. Pay attention
@@galactictomato1434 dude, the world where the car replaced the horse and buggy was vastly different from our world now.
@@galactictomato1434 the ICE world took a half a century or more to build out to what it is now but the goberments want the EV world to replace the ICE world in just a few decades come hell or high water.
That’s a problem. ICE happened holistically with the infrastructure buildout but EV is being forced upon us atomistically.
I pity the man who speaks in absolutes. To say that government can't do good is to ignore the rights you enjoy. Who do you think enforces those rights? Government agents, by and large. To see all government as a problem is to see the Clean Air and Clean Water act as a problem. Or, for a more romantic example, to see the US declaration of war on Nazi Germany as a problem. You sound a fool, claiming these absolutist positions. Patently false and not really forwarding your argument about EVs at all.
This is going to be good. I was wondering when you guys would broach this topic. This is a hot topic.
That deer story is why auto-headlights kind of annoy me at night. I was driving my 2 or 3 day old car late at night at rapid speed (in Mexico) and had an ABS moment because someone's driveway light turned the high beams off and I didn't see the 4 deer chilling in the middle of the street.
E fuels would be the coolest solution but that would require a lot of innovation in efficiency
When Koenigsegg debuted (french word) the Regera, the Hydracoup single-speed torque converter made me think of the Powerglide 2-speed featured in the C1 Corvette.
I’ve got a 03 Pontiac Bonneville. If your windshield wiper reservoir is empty the car will Bing at you every couple of minutes while you’re driving. If your gas tank is almost empty it will bing at you once and then never do it again until you turn the car off and on again. Apparently Pontiac finds wiper fluid more critical to car operation than gas.
I’ve always hated my BMW E91 that bongs and displays a door is open only after you start driving. I always interpret it as “haha, now you have to stop idiot”.
C4 Corvette’s digital dash was sick
What fuel cells solve is a rare earth metal problem
Great podcast
Old tech that came back: pre combustion chamber was the cornerstone of the Honda CVCC engine and now it's in the Maserati Nettuno.
I'm only discussing street car engines.
44:05 same with my '13 Volvo S60 when the switch is in the auto position.
6:08 I understand hes saying this is the way they're hoping to make hydrogen, but right now hydrogen is predominantly manufactured by cracking fossil fuels.. I think about 95% of the world hydrogen supply comes from fossil fuels (its called steam reforming), 5% from electrolysis.
I don't understand why THIS govt is all about forcing people, both EV and IC ars have they're purpose and we can live with both.
It isn't about the government, it's about the people. The vast majority of people make economic decisions, not environmental decisions. So long as an EV is more expensive than ICE cars, most people will buy ICE cars. Intervention is needed or the vast majority of commuter cars will remain ICE when they could be more efficient EVs with a little subsidy (and hopefully in time economies of scale make EVs competitive on their own). Obviously long haul trucks and other applications will remain ICE until the tech improves, but short distance cars need to be converted if we have a hope in hell of keeping Paris Agreement CO2 emission levels. Transport is a huge part of CO2 emissions.
There is a way of knowing your lights are on....the GREEN headlight icon on. The other issue is some of the DRLs are so bright that in SOCAL you can't tell your lights aren't on. Too many street ligths and other cars.
On the digital speed readouts, the recently killed-off Acura ILX completely lacked a digital speedometer readout! It was a 2021 without one! Latest one I’ve seen.
Hyundai Tau V8 ended production sometime this model year. So the last one may have already rolled off the production line. Another one bites the dust...
They have their issues… I’ll be the first to admit that, but BMW still has a button on the left hand stalk for auto high beams, as well as the ability to pull towards for flash and push forward for instant on high beams. Im not a fan of the auto high beams either so I appreciate the ability to turn that feature off and use the beams at will.
I loved my 1986 300zx turbos digital dash board. Green an accurate. Especially the fuel gage.
I had a similar 'auto-stop' experience to Jason in a Tesla. The owner had dropped it off and left with they key-card (i suspect intentionally so he could try activating the car remotely). After he let me in the car, when pulling it onto the lift I leaned out of the driver's seat, and it FREAKED OUT. Is suppose because the key-card was not present it not only stopped the car but completely shut down, locking me inside. I had to bang on the windows and scream like I was in a horror movie until a coworker finally came to my rescue and called the owner to 'disarm' the stupid car.
Please never stop.
Hyphen (or since I'm from the future of this podcast, should I refer to him as Double Hyphen?) is wrong about technology and the government, the US government has been at the forefront of many technologies, including you know, the internet (see: ARPANET).
Magnifique épisode de "Auto-mudgêon" !
Les accents superbes !
But I will say I think the CX looks even more space age than the DS even if it's sort of...70s. Not necessarily a bad thing, though.
The seatbelt warning is the most irritating thing in my parent's new Yaris when passengers have just entered the car and proceed to chat instead of putting on their stupid seatbelt.
My E36 has zero bongs. Absolute. Bliss.
@59:10 : Incorrect. Ford has one production cam-in-block V8: The 7.3L Godzilla motor.
Had to check the comments, glad someone already noted this!
Almost choked on my soup while laughing so hard at 52:20, brilliant.
Give it to me now cause I need it == great episode
1972 CERN touch screens
(1986? For the Buick)
Wow. A TI-99 voice synthesizer reference. You don't hear that every day.
I think it's interesting that the oil industry is not mentioned in this podcast related to cars after it was stated that they killed the trains...
Can't stop seeing Derek's triceps....
I will say I really like having the digital speed readout on my dashboard so I can glance at my dash and know, to the mile an hour, exactly how fast I am going to make sure that I am following the speed limit.
To your point about the auto headlamps/high-beams; I had a lightbulb moment while watching this. I have a '22 CX5 Kuro (digital dash in this Canadian trim) and you cannot turn the headlamps into the "OFF" position on the stalk. It just bounces back to the "Auto" setting. Also, same as the Benz Jason was ranting about, you can only put the high-beams "ON" when you move the headlight switch into the "ON" position, or switch the auto high-beams off in the settings menu. Normally I like the auto function, but to Jason's point, I had a drive the other evening where the auto high beams simply REFUSED to turn on while driving on dark rural roads. That was a "WTF is going on" moment for sure.
I'm surprised no mention of the Chrysler Turbine car when mentioning "alternate options". Something that was put out to pasture far too early and had promise.
Edit: Ok, only a slight mention....
So true about the Taos. My dad has an AWD SEL one with the 7 speed DSG and it does the SAME thing. The short shifting is so annoying because when I was driving it, I feel like you have to hit the throttle pedal more than 50% to get it to downshift, which gets you into the neck snapping jerkiness Jason mentions. Otherwise it feels like you’re lugging the engine which we know isn’t great (LSPI).
Also yes, I see easily 3-5 cars per night driving with the headlights off. 🤦🏻♂️ Driver assists have made drivers dumber in my opinion. It enables us to pay LESS attention.
Volvo has a great HBA system, selector set to auto, there is an additional spring loaded position on the switch for HBA to enable it, and a forward push will override HBA
You guys need to do an episode on the best na 4 cylinders.
The 2zzge was initially developed by Toyota and Yamaha to go into the 7th gen celica and the matrix/corolla xrs with was competing with the Integra at the time. The the falling out of the power band and overrev issues were faults compared to Honda's vtec. I think the earlier 1.6 engines (4age) were better developed than the 2zz. Though Toyota also had a 2.0 liter 3sge that it never brought to the US except in turbo form in the sw20 mr2 and n/a in one previous gen Celica.
The Vector W8 TT Dash or AM Lagonda come to mind at 37:55.
I’ve often wondered why people drive with lights off…newer cars illuminate the dash even with headlights off! You can drive late into dusk and people think their lights are on because they can see their gauges…Older cars from the 70s and 80s only had dash lights come on with the headlights so it was evident when your lights weren’t on… why did they change this if my understanding is correct it seems really stupid to me
I feel the clap struggle, man!
Hilarious. Excellent & informative!
On the high beam subject (100% agreed it’s stupid the way it’s engineered) a way around it is to turn the auto high beam on before start driving and then you can use it normally. It’s more complicated than it should be, but… you know… modern cars.
F1 has electric integrated turbos with no bypass valves just using regen to slow the turbo to change the battery. Then when boost is low they spool it with the motor.
Emperor Franz Joseph had an electric car. And he died in 1916. (It's in a Museum run by a Piech in Austria) As for the digital displays in cars, i have no clue how it is with current cars (my cars are 10 and 12 years old) but the LCDs always are very slow to respond in very cold temperatures. (So starting the car in -10°C means the numbers on a digital dash are lagging severely while the analogue ones never did that to my knowledge)
I disgree with you on the Mercedes way of the automatic High beams, but i do also despise automatic highbeams in general. The Mercedes way works for me as it allows me to either use the automatc highbeams (which i don't) or use the manual highbeams like it was with all the cars before. And if you use the automatic highbeams it gives you the option to switch them off fast for the many cases where it will still blind someone. (like when the barriers between directional lanes prevent the system from "seeing the lights of oncomming traffic, but the eyes of said traffig are above the barrier and get blinded by the highbeams.)
Also, i think you guys are too optimistic, when all these "transport" people go electric, they for sure won't let us "pollute the envirement" with enjoyable ICE cars.
Ammonia based refrigerants are more efficient but also more dangerous if your home fridge system leaks in your house.
There's zero chance the court would ban EVs. Respectfully, that's sheltered San Francisco paranoia. The court only has the ability to decide cases brought before it, so it would require the legislature to ban EVs first and then the court could OK it or whatever. What they could do is un-ban internal combustion. That's legislation already in place and therefore the court could give an opinion on it. Also, the predominant sentiment in the court right now is constitutional originslism. As with Roe, the court is likely to believe that since none of this authority is granted in the Constitution, it is therefore a State-level issue. California can have their EV mandate just as they still have abortion rights. This is an anti-legislative court.
If the influence of Europe and everywhere else is great enough to force the automakers to invest in EV technology, then they'll still do it. But there could well remain a domestic market for internal combustion which would fail to be eradicated.
As of first of July, the 760 is a I6 Hybrid, BMW doesn't have a V12 anymore
EVs are not going to make any sense for many locales in the United States. Just because it works in Europe doesn’t mean that it would work here. It’s hilarious to think that there won’t be regionally specific emissions regulations and markets like there literally are right now.
They don’t work in Europe either. Unless you’re a wealthy urbanite with your own garage in a building that has an adequate power coming to it and you’ll only charge there.
Hyphen straight after recording “Siri give me all the information you have on electric driven turbocharger”
I love how obvious it is that Derek and Jason don’t care about racing. Putting a motor on the turbo shaft, whilst ingenious, is not new. F1 has had it since 2014.
Slight issue with the argument: the supreme court can't ban electric cars. Congress or the states could ban electric cars. If it went to the supreme court, the supreme court would decide if the Senate or states could ban electric cars. We live in a sad state when a RUclips commenter has to explain how government works :)
NA education moment.
SCOTUS can prevent the EPA from banning ICE though. The EPA has a history of far overstepping its authority to legislate (though really all legislation is written by beaurocrats now, the legislature is just there to rubber stamp).
Always fun guys… really
Phoebus lightbulb cartel comes to mind
1927 DueseyOHC
1930? Cord 810 elect shift
1947 Tucker turnlight&seatbelts
I personally drive with all of the gauges turned off at night. While this might be a terrible idea on it’s own at least you can be sure that my headlights are on.
2011 Toyota Highlander Limited (fully analog gauges)
Re: fuel cells - Remember, you don't just "put electricity into cars" either, there is always a carbon cost associated with any production process. Hydrogen usage is a technology problem that can be overcome.
Wasn't Jaguar had a concert with turbine engine feet years ago?
4:50 does anyone know what refrigeration technology he's talking about?
The vapor-compression cycle (what is used in refrigerators, AC units, etc) is pretty widely know to be the most efficent and practical refrigeration technology. Honestly if there was a better one, pretty sure manufacturer's would have developed it and switch to it if it was better. That space is pretty competitive, and they would love to have a tech that their competitors don't.
Ammonia is a more efficient refrigerant, but its not used because of its toxicity. Don't want to wake up dead one night.
Just started valeting/washing cars at a Toyota dealership and I can attest to both the seatbelt “bling” being annoying as fuck and the cars throwing themselves in park (my boss was trying to send a car through the car wash that I was in, as I pulled to a stop at the start of the wash I popped the car in neutral (you need to for the wash) and closed the windows and checked to make sure my door was shut, then when the car wash started I didn’t move and my boss started yelling at me to put it in neutral which I had already done, well, low and behold, at some point in my pre wash checks the car had automatically put itself in park and thrown the e brake on for good measure, stupid fucking car). I’ve also had a car (a Prius) start, tell me that I was in reverse, then when I took my foot off the brake and press the gas I rolled forward nearly hitting another before I caught it…
I look forward to solid state batteries becoming the norm.
A really big problem with EVs (at least in europe) is that the power grid of most countries is not capable of sustaining the load of charge needed by an EV population equal to the current gas car population (considering that most charging is done at home). Wich indicates the need for country wide reforms in the non-industrial power grid. Added to that another problem is that the materials needed for current battery technology are some of the rarest in the world and there is not enough of them to build such population on the fist place.
Even considering a huge leap in battery technology in the next cuple years is provable that most of the legislations regarding the prohibition of gas powered cars might have to be delayed due to limitations in EV production and power grid infrastructure.
Next show topic suggestion: comfort en cars
Pretty sure you could get Crossfire injection at the end of C3 production?
At exactly time of court question a tequila commercial started 😂
Angry Hyphen... let the hate flow through you!!😂
marie dash kondo there at the end. does this ICE bring me joy?
I consume this gem of an automotive... journalism no 🤔 discussion on my golden throne (twirls mustache) in case Jason is still pondering this question. Also DTS rage mode is quite the sight to behold.
Abarth 124 does not have a digital read out. You can digitally set the cruise but there’s no digital speed read out…