The World's Best Sounding Cars -The Carmudgeon Show with Cammisa and Derek from ISSIMI Ep. 70
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2022
- On this episode of the Carmudgeon Show, Jason and Derek discuss the world’s best sounding cars, embracing the cacophony of cylinder count and alignment, valves per cylinder, and other factors that make each engine a musical instrument of sorts. Following a discussion that begins with the Audi RS3 and a breakdown of five cylinder aural theory, Jason and Derek land on the V10-powered Porsche Carrera GT and Lexus LFA as the best sounding cars in the world. Despite having the same cylinder count and revs capable of beyond 8500 RPM, the perception of sound as a driver is much more than meets the ear. Jason and Derek unpack this similarly concluded realization, much in part to a certain Japanese piano maker’s philosophy on engine sound design.
The two Carmudgeons also discuss updates on their recent purchases. Jason upgrades the wheels and tires on his new-to-him Dodge Grand Caravan camera van to take on some additional maneuverability and capability, with newly found grip to throw people and passengers violently about in back. On a similar but entirely different other end of the front wheel drive spectrum, Derek buys a carbureted and hydropneumatic 1979 Citroen CX- a car which may lack in dynamics but compensates with an oozing of character and style.
All this and more. brought to you by the Hagerty Podcast Network. 
Авто/Мото
Please tell your editor THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THOSE SOUND CLIP INSERTS. they add so much context and value to your discussion. Much appreciated
Paolo a beast
I second this! I was listening to the podcast at work and it seriously made such a difference
Query answers
Derek really found his comedic groove in this episode
Sooooo, Episode 71? 😇
I know the GMA T.50 isn't out yet but that car has one of the most amazing engine sounds I've heard come out of a stock production car yet.
True that
@@grievuspwn4g3 have you not heard the T50 then? I love the TVR, but how do you compare that to a 12000 rpm V12? Closest sound to an old f1 car on the street.
I've heard it. It sounds synthesized. Big fail.
see youtube video called ferrari 312T flat 12 in atgs engine simulator
@@ducbox572 u heard it in person? how do you think of corvette z06 naturally aspirated track pack v8 sound? lexus lc500 v8?
Re: 4 cylinders. I'm a Honda guy, but I'm shocked that they didn't mention a carbureted Alfa Twin Cam. They don't have that ripping noise like a K series Honda, but there's a musicality to them -- and the induction noise is fantastic!
I agree, even the injected Alfa Twin Sparks sound awesome, whether its the old Nord engine or the later Fiat derived Twin Sparks
and they sound good where 90 percent of new engines don't, from about 800-2500 the sound of an engine picking the pace up is my favorite sound
@@benzinapaul7416 I had the pleasure to drive a 156 and it sounded great for what it is.
When it comes to V8s, still in love with the GT350R's sound, actually thanks to your Head2Head Episode on it and the Z28. Burble at the bottom end and screaming it's head off at the top end. It's got a bit of everything. Oh, and great episode as always.
Jason's videos on the gt350 are a big reason why I bought mine
I recently had the privilege to go for a rip in a 350.
It seemed like it was fighting tooth and nail to hit its 8250 redline....
GT350 and e92 M3 are the best sounding v8s ever
The trick is making it sound like two 4 bangers in fight
Jason is becoming a cat lady. I can't wait to share the tire size story with all the soccer moms.😁😂
What great timing to release this video. The C8 z06 reviews just flooded in and it's very interesting that Derek said flat plane v8s sound like four cylinders. Savage geese's interview with the Corvette engineer just said the same thing and they said they worked for years to make it sound good. While Throttle House says the new z06 sounds like a Ferrari, I'd love to know what you two think. Thanks for the content guys! I love it and I hope you guys get to the millionth episode anniversary lol
I know I'm late to the party, but I have some corrections and additions to Cammisa's musical analysis for those interested:
Four-stroke five-cylinder engines do not produce a perfect fifth, but rather a major tenth, which is an octave plus a major third above the base note. If you take an E1 at 41.2 Hz, for example, and multiply it by 2.5 (in a five-cylinder, there are five exhaust pulses for every two crank rotations, hence 2.5 pulses for every one crank rotation), you get 103 Hz, which is nearly a G#2, a major tenth above E1. A ten-cylinder engine keeps the major third sound of a five-cylinder, but adds another octave in between (E1 to G#3). To get a perfect fifth interval, which has a ratio of 3:2, you'd need a four-stroke three-cylinder. A four-cylinder produces an octave, six-cylinders an octave plus a fifth, and so on.
The reason any of the typical cylinder count engines (3, 4, 5, 6, 8, etc.) sound good is because they all follow the harmonic series, and intervals from the harmonic series happen to be pleasing to the human ear (I have no idea why this is, but it's a very important idea in music theory). My idea as to why five- and ten- cylinder engines sound particularly good is because they're the only engines that fall outside the typical octave, fifth, or combination thereof sounds. Octaves and fifths sound very stable, but thirds offer more character and emotion. In the particular case of the LFA, all of that character was harnessed by way of Yamaha turning the intake and exhaust components into resonance chambers, turning an already distinctive sound into something entirely unique.
Side note: nine-cylinder engines also break the octave/fifth pattern, producing a couple octaves and a ninth (i.e. E1 to F#3). There are some examples of radial nine-cylinders on RUclips, but a lot of them have propeller wind noise in addition to exhaust noise so it's a little difficult to hear properly.
The NA Fiat 5 pot sounded so good, it was used as a 2 litre 20V in the Coupe/Bravo and as a 2.4 10V in the Marea/Stilo
Also in the Lancia kappa/Lybra (the Pratola Serra series)
There were also a 20v version of the 2.4 for the Marea and Stilo in South America. However, the 2.0 sounded better. I had both, 2.0 and 2.4, and currently drive a 5-cylinder Volvo that doesn't sound as good as the Fiats.
When I saw the title my thought immediately went to when I was a passenger in an Ariel Atom at Laguna Seca. The Honda 2.0L made a pretty hefty intake noise, but then we were passed by a silver Porsche Carrera GT with the V10 at full song. My memory of this glorious moment in time will be with me forever.
Also, the F355 with exhaust is my favorite V8...the 12v VR6 is my favorite affordable 6 cylinder sound. The Evora 400 I drove is the best sounding V6 I've ever driven myself. And finally, the S2000 is the best sounding 4 cylinder I've heard personally.
LFA, the 7 Litre Z06, s20, and 2zz my pics. i love this kind of conversations and see people´s diferences in taste
@@gordon2zz778 I bet the LFA is the 🐐 but I was just listing cars ice experienced. The flat plane V8 from the gt350 is also wicked
Ariel w seats for 2. Thought it only had one seat space
One of my fave episodes, love any discussion with best engine sounds. Thankfully there are countless amazing engine sounds, unfortunately only some of them exist today.
I just finished the podcast and was delighted to hear the Miata mentioned when Jason and Derek were explaining how sports cars should work with the driver. Once again, amazing listen and I can't wait for the best sounding drag race.
'Life is too short to drive boring cars.' -The Topher
This was absolutely amazing to watch. Loved every minute of it. Thank you for your input. No doubt the LFA is on another level no other car ever built will ever reach. And I FREAKIN love the Carrera GT. One of my favorite cars ever. But the LFA is a something special that not too many talk about. It's a masterpiece that may never be matched.
If the LFA had the balsa shifter 6 speed it would be in buisness
Such an amazing episode I will have to listen to it again, the sounds clips made the points.
Keep them coming. Excited for you guys to get to triple digit episodes.
41:35 a double audio thing happens and hyphen started speaking before he started speaking
Another great talk. Listened this after watching Savage Geese on the C8 Z06. Which had a long section on exhaust tuning for sound both inside and outside the car. Engineer was talking about using a center exhaust so they could cancel out some of the four cylinder noise. So I'm now overloaded on car noises.
Murcielago sv was so good! It needs a mention. V8s… e92 m3 and ford voodoo. Alfa 8c was a good call and if race cars are allowed c5r and c6r Pratt and miller engines. Yes. V10 much like the wail of the carrera gt and the lfa, the early gallardos had that wail. So good.
Yes glad someone said it! Murci is iconic.
4cyl - Lancia Fulvia (V4)
6cyl - Lancia Stratos
8cyl - Ferrari 458
10cyl - Lexus LFA
12cyl - Ferrari 812 Superfast
mmm good list, Stratos and Fulvia are solid choices...
V12- Murci
V10- LFA
V8- Ferrari F355 (sorry Hyphen)
V6- Busso
I6- 2JZ
Flat 6 - 997.2 Porsche GT3RS 4.0
I5 - Audi DAZA 5 Cyl (RS3)
I4 - Honda K20
I3 - Honda Beat
There is another 5-cylinder car, but just in Europe. The Cupra Formentor was also sold with the Audi 5-cylinder engline.
Fiat had had a 20 valve 5 cylinder. They put it in the Coupe.
And a few Lancias too
F355, GT350 and VR6's are definitely in the conversation
You need to do a video on the best shifters / manual transmissions ever! I watch so many videos saying "this is one of the best manual transmissions / shifters ever" that the list has to be at least 150 cars / transmissions long at this point, which is bullshit lol.
Also, if the LFA was a manual it would've been a serious contender for the greatest car of all time, not* just the greatest sounding car of all time.
Great episode, thanks for the awesome content!
"it's like Kink...." that made me stop what I was doing 🤣
THANK YOU DEREK. CGTs really do sound like a race-spec-UPS truck at low revs
By the way Jason, for the LS400...try using the ECT transmission shift button for way quicker shifts. I own one in that green also. It’s a huge difference for acceleration.
Nice choice Hyphen! I have a CX turbo 2
Just got done rewatching Jason’s video on the Carrera GT only to see a thumbnail featuring it in my feed.
This was a wonderfully geeky episode! Since you recently talked about it extensively, I'm surprised you didn't mention the Beat's 3 cylinder lump. Also, I know you know, but I don't think you mentioned the LFA's connection with Yamaha's musical division in this discussion. Or did I miss it? Finally, for NA 5-cylinder sounds, check out videos on RUclips on 2.5l Golfs with a muffler delete. ;)
Fiat 20VT 5 cylinder engine. OK so fitted in a front heavy car (see ben hur) but that noise and the magic 3rd gear pull. I kept up with a RS4 once, which amazed me.
Im really excited for that best sounding drag race! Im saving up for that new RS3 8Y, would be great to hear Jason's thoughts on it.
The best sounding cars ever were Matra’s twelve cylinder Le Mans racers from the 1970s. They sound like a dangerous animal that’s about to eat you for a snack. Gives me chills, literally. PS - please do a Citroen episode!
Apart from 5 and 10 cyl sounds I am a fan of the M156 Sound. What i missed you mention is how you guys think about the Viper V10.
To me it strangely never sounded particularly good for a V10. (dissapointingly)
Also strange that you had no mention of any Porsche B6 engines.
As for the group B sounds: years ago i bought a compilation DVD of Group B Rallye racing "pure Sound". Had no comentary, only picture inserts of which rallye the parts were from. Glorious to listen to.
Great clips. I would watch an episode composed of just clips of wonderful engines being pushed hard
any idea what brand those floor lamps are? i really like them.
I'm glad to hear the Michelin PS AS4 are doing so well. I'm considering a set for my otherwise stock ND Miata to replace the OEM S001s.
When speaking about the CGT bank angle do you mean offset wrist pin and not crank pin? I am confused.
For 4cylinder sound the Ferrari 500 Mondial is pretty impressive as well
Jason does the best noises.
He's right about the Aventador with the back window down. Big difference. Also the induction noise off throttle coming down the rpm is fantastic.
Aston Martin One-77 is incredible to listen to.
The e46 had a great (and small) key too. It only needed a tiny battery because it had wireless charging in the ignition.
As you guys were talking about the CGT one ripped by me! Kind of crazy I get to hear IRL exactly what you were talking about at that moment. I think this is only the second or third time I've seen one in the wild.
Editor MVP this episode
You always seem to forget the 5-cyl from Fiat. Both turbo & NA - its a great & great sounding engine. Check out Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo or Stilo Abarth or Bravo HGT
Of course it developed into both petrol & diesel versions in various Alfa’s & Lancia’s too.
No idea what transmission is in the grand caravan but I had an avenger with the pentastar and the 62TE transmission, I forgot to attach a fitting when replacing a trans cooler and it dumped all the fluid out, went miles down the interstate without me knowing, and I learned in a parking lot when it wouldn't accelerate. This was at 130k miles. I sold it at 150k with the trans still working as intended, but it made a thunk going into reverse, and sometimes shifter a little harder than you'd expect. My best friend owns it now, 185k and still going strong.
As far as sound goes, I'm really anxious to hear what Gordon Murray's new T33's V12 sounds like on the road. I'd like to get one and swap out my Vantage's V8.
To me, the best engines have a nice balance between induction honk, mechanical noise and exhaust. There's often a shift between harmony and dissonance as you move up the rpm range - a complexity that's got some depth. My complaint against a lot of modern cars is they are all loud exhaust, presumably because you can control the noise. But, that Honda-powered Lotus managed to balance my three favourite sounds!
I think the problem with Carrera GTs is that they are hard because of how fast the revs are dropping. You have to shift extremely fast to keep up with that on the upshift, i've seen so many, even experienced drivers shifting as quickly as they would normally would, which meant that revs would drop to like 1-2k RPM and then increase again to whatever they should be on on specified gear when they lift up their foot - in short, a clutch slip.
I don't know if that's to hard to do in this car or those journalists had no basic knowledge of how those wthings work, but they were doing it every time.
Edit - ok, Jason mentioned that :)
C63 AMG (aspirated one) should get at least a mention in the V8 section.
That's the M156 engine. And i like that sound a lot too!
Very characterful, but it’s a pretty dirty noise (both good and bad) doesn’t sound particularly pleasant especially outside the car. Not harmonious at all, but it’s just great to have a range of sounds from that sector, the typical V8 of the RS4, motorsport massive intake noise from the M3 and the dirty obscure machine gun rattle of the C63
My favorite v6 was the VW R32 MKiV/V with the valve open.
That's not a V6, it's a VR6! Different configuration, and it sounds better than most V6s!
@@TheCarmudgeonShow ok so I left out the letter R 🤷🤣
Still waiting to hear your thoughts on the 4AGE 20v Blacktop 😢
20:38 I wanna hear more about the driving of that van in that shot! Holy shit!
@41:30 : Massive issues with audio sync and multiple audio tracks. Paolo! Bad dog!
Noticed the same!
"Other great production v8s" has to include the gt350 engine...it is such a unique sound
One thing that I always noticed re: valve number was the difference in sound between the early 2000s modular Ford V8’s. I wanted the 4v Cobra but the GT sounded SO much better imo. Like a lion with long tubes and an x pipe. That said I’ve always enjoyed the ‘little extra’ ‘more is more’ sound of 5 valves.
Go listen to the episode of Jay Leon’s Garage with his Honda S800 with the roller bearing crank. Wow. It’s in my top 3.
For me, the Cross-Plane V8 is as good as it gets. A distinctly un-even firing order is its notable feature, of course. There _are_ other configurations in the running -- straight sixes leap to mind -- and sometimes they sound just as good, but the good old C-P V8 can always keep up. More often than not, it sounds better, especially from inside the car.
Talking about CGT, if you haven’t already, go watch Jason’s spotlight episode on this!
599 GTO has a seriously forgotten engine note. The intake noise of that V12 was just immense and the exhaust noise has so much more range and character than an LFA’s.
Enzo engine if I'm not mistaken?
@@Poorschedriver yes but completely different sound. Put 6 into 1 headers on a 599 GTB ideally via a full Fiamenghi setup and that creates something quite spectacular. But stock, the GTO is unreal
Acura 2.5 TL from the 90s had a straight 5 cylinder NA and manual.
Gotta have the Nissan rb26 in the inline 6 category that motor is pure symphony
Wow, I had no idea Sauber C9 sounded that way :O
Surprised at the CGT being number two. Haven’t heard one in person yet (or any of those featured) but I never found it particularly desirable
For the V8s aren't you going to mention those M156 V8 Mercs
A "sleeper" episode would be a cool episode similar to the Testarossa episode you guys did a while back. Where you said the Ferrari looks like an absolute beast but drives like "a 180 mph sofa". So focus on cars that look like they'd be slow or not fun to drive or something similar but are actually a blast to drive or remarkably capable at being a gt car stuff like that.
best sounding street cars!
Aventador svj with a gintani f1 exhaust, sounds like an f1 car from the 90’s
Almost prefer the OF Aventador noise tbf. More guttural and less synthetic. Also builds across the Rev range and is more distinctive, whereas the Gintani is just ear splitting scream and doesn’t have the vocal range of the standard car.
Taking the RS3's soft limiter's should be the first modification.
We need photos of the van please! Also whenever you drag race cars have the van chasing behind them. Never to catch anything. Well the van was there after I posted this! Nice cat.
Best V12 today is the Ferrari 812 Competizione at 9500 rpm. Nothing else like it in production today. However, overall the best one would be Gordon Murray T.50 at 12.500 rpm.
He meant a 3rd (major actually) not a 5th, best explanation for a 5 cylinder engine sound I’ve ever heard though.
1:00:19 "First digital gauge cluster?" Aston Martin Lagonda 1976.
Of them all, the 5.0 Gallardo, driven in anger, might still be my favourite from the outside (or maybe second after the LFA). The CGT is so high pitched, it becomes a little unpleasant to listen to, having only heard one once, driving around a track.
I would have to nominate the F Type SVR (yes I’m biased) and the GT350 (sorry Derek).
If anybody is interested there are audiovisual demonstrations of different engine configurations, such as i4, i5, v10, v12 etc. which give a good impression of the sound characteristics for that particular configuration.
Here is an example with the engine for an LFA: ruclips.net/video/o5eyOmf_NjU/видео.html
Here is an example with the engine for the i5 found is the Audi’s:
ruclips.net/video/klAi3gxyFqg/видео.html
Hell yeah LS400 is legend
Mercedes M156 V8 and Lexus 3uz with good exhaust are also nice choices
Best V12 Ferrari 365GTC/4 at idle, but the 365GTB/4 sounds better once above 4000rpm.
Carrera GT, LFA, every 911 GT3 since the 996.II, McLaren F1, Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale is my top 5. If you're not a multi-millionaire get a Ford Modular V8. Honorable mention to the BMW S54 but it needs the right intake/exhaust combo, factory it was often a bit tinny in most applications.
I wonder if Hyphen heard Jason say: “I like weird things… that’s why we’re friends.” 😁
First gen Legacy Rs sounds perfect
Jason has to watch the savagegeese review of the lfa 45+mins of detail engineering !
If I was to add a few, I'd add 4AGE, 3SGTE, M113 V8 & M120/M275 V12 (in Zonda/Huayra)
The flat plan crank z06 sounds pretty good
It definitely has moments that sound good, but also at times sounds way too much like a 4 cylinder.
@@spacepxl if that 4cyl revs past 8,000rpm I’m ok with it
@@CruiseControl1 oh for sure, and I love a high revving 4cyl too. I think the GT350 engine sounds way more interesting than the Z06 though.
@@spacepxl I love the Shelby gt350 and that 8,250rpm redline. This flat plane crank sounds different but for me equally great.
My favorite sounding car is whichever one I'm able to drive :). On a sidenote, does anyone know which episode has the talk about Jason's rental car torture test? He talks about slamming either a Sunfire or Neon from drive to reverse and I can't remember which episode it was.
Gone in 2.5 seconds I thinkkkk
Yes! Thank you.
The Pontiac Endurance Test!
Best story of all time. For episode 100 Carmudgeon needs to buy a sunfire and perforom the PET with Hyphen cry-laughing the whole time.
There’s sort of a cult on NA 5cylinders Jettas here in Brasil, as we don’t get a lot of non-4cyl engines…
What about a flat 12? When I was growing up my friend's dad drove a 512M, what a noise!
Throughout the first half I thought It's the Carrera GT, then when you talked about the cleanliness and harmonies of the LFA, I thought that was it... But I dunno.
Which one do you think is the better sounding one, then?
What about Audi R8 V10? How does that compare? And what Toyota 20 valve engines? Those make some incredible induction noises
"The Van" needs a catchy nickname like Beatrice. Thinking about the cat connection from the AirBNB, the model Town & Country (abbreviated TAC = CAT backwards) even though it's the wrong model... there must be a proper feline related nickname hiding in plain sight ;)
Jason suggested “my vangina”
Given that it's a dodge, I would go for "the CATastrophe"
When you mention a V12 a Murcielago has to be there
I can't believe it, I finally disagree with you guys about something (slightly). While I will contend that the LFA (and to a lesser degree) the CGT are in my top 5, I would not place them at the top of the best sounding car (or engine) of all time.
IMO that honor solely goes to the Lamborghini Murcielago, which was the last vehicle to carry the Bizzarrini V12 (which the Aventatdor does not have and it sounds like a buzzsaw by comparison). The Murci creates a harmonious howling that sounds like pure emotion. See examples:
ruclips.net/video/yMpmyo-X994/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/r3mMXiuI5k4/видео.html
Second I would say the Colombo V12 found in the Ferrari 250GTO. You could technically argue that it's a race car, and not a road car, but they are homologation cars so I think it flies. As such, it offers a raw, mechanical howl with buzzing vibrations; all things that sound unique and stimulating.
ruclips.net/video/KHgD0wJGcR0/видео.html
After those 2 then yes I'd say the LFA, then CGT. I also think it's best to choose one car (or engine) from each cylinder configuration because they all have their own personality and merit.
V12- Murci
V10- LFA
V8- Ferrari F355 (sorry Hyphen)
V6- Busso
I6- 2JZ
Flat 6 - 997.2 Porsche GT3RS 4.0
I5 - Audi DAZA 5 Cyl (RS3)
I4 - Honda K20
I3 - Honda Beat
Also, Jason "I hate turbos" wearing a blow me shirt with a turbo on it 🤣
As someone who got the AS4's for my FR-S, I appreciate this story on the Caravan. They grip so incredibly well, and break away so progressively I'm never scared.
I HATE the original Primacy's on the FRS/BRZ/86. That they continued with those shit eco tires on the second gen boggles my mind... lateral grip is low, and breakaway is blink-your-eyes-and-you'll-miss-it quick, so much that it makes the car more intimidating than it ever should be.
Let’s not forget that Yamaha made the LFA engine…the same Yamaha that makes musical instruments. Love all the five and V10 sounds, brings back 90´s F1 memories 😌
The same department too if I remember correctly. The same people who designed pianos and guitars designed the exhaust. Not just the same company, the same individual team of people.
old Mezger flat six in the 996 or 997 GT3
I wonder if something is wrong with me, as I don't find V10s to sound as good as V12. I'd take the sound of most of the Zonda variants (even though the Zondas don't rev high, they sound like they do) or a Murcielago over an LFA, as the LFA sounds kind of one-dimensional in comparison, getting progressively louder but not really having separate stages at different revs. The post-F12 Ferrari V12s sound overtuned though, it's like they've emphasized the 'trumpet/elephant' sound over everything else, and they no longer seem to have any connection to race car V12s like the Ferrari FXX, 333 SP etc... maybe they sound different in person than a recording though.
I love a good small block V8 sound. GM all the way....... (So yes Jason, today we are going to discuss the dump trucky sound of the Porsche Carrera......)
Jason was trying to make an argument for the Carrera GT sound on the outside and I think deep down he does like it better. Sadly never heard neither in person however from videos CGT does sound higher pitched and more raw on quick revs and run by's. I prefer that actually. From the inside, however, there's no comparison there. LFA is miles ahead.