Should Maserati Exist in 2022? - The Carmudgeon Show with Cammisa and Derek from ISSIMI Ep. 71
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- Опубликовано: 23 окт 2022
- Carmudgeon returns! After a short break, Jason and Derek have returned to discuss the past, present, and future of Maserati- and at the end of the day, should they even exist at all in the current car market? There’s no doubt that the legacy Italian brand has taken a new shape molded by mass-market modern consumer tastes, influencing the birth of the Ghibli, Levante, and MC20. With V6 powertrains across the board, Jason and Derek, Maserati may have lost its’ way, lacking the character of even the late Quattroporte V’s ferocious, snarling V8. Without the direction it once had, will Maserati ever find its way in a market biased by EVs and SUVs?
In highlighting brand identities, Jason and Derek naturally land on the discussion of the SUV’s existence overall. Jason remarks on recent seat time in the Porsche Cayenne Coupe GTS, a vehicle which has become exceptionally dynamic to drive and whose existence allowed Porsche to continue making sports cars after flirting with bankruptcy. But a world of great SUVs, will the general consumer ever return to form and downsize back to smaller and lighter offerings?
All this to unpack and more, brought to you by the Hagerty Podcast Network. 
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![Behind The Scenes Of A Maserati Press Day! [S6, E38]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/s9iE6XDqfgc/mqdefault.jpg)
Make Alfa compete with BMW, make Maserati compete with Porsche and leave Ferrari to be it's own thing, they will sell anything anyway. PS: Alfa is profitable for the first time in a long time so they must be doing well, I see Gulias everywhere in Europe
Thank you so much you two clowns ! You have no idea how much I love what you’re doing! Thank you thank you thank you on behalf of all of us car lovers !
I remember laughing hysterically about a Maserati ad in some magazine commemorating the fact that the Ghibli V6 Diesel was ranked "Company Car of the Year 2015" by the german company car magazine Firmenauto (literally company car)
In Italy they sell Diesel Ghiblis with exactly 250 hp because that's the threshold for the superbollo, a hefty tax on powerful cars
Owned two Maserati GranTurismo with the Ferrari F136 engine. Insane v8 engine note. Still one of the best looking and sounding cars on the road today . Love my naturally spirited v8 4.7
After being in Japan for a couple weeks (to watch the F1 race) I can report that I saw at least a half dozen (maybe ten) new Maserati cars and SUVs as I was walking around. I also saw a lot of Nissans. I was surprised to see so many of those two brands. Maybe different parts of the world have different preferences re the cars they buy.
Nissan is huge in JDM land. Not so much internationally
Maserati opened new dealerships in upscale metropolitan areas here a few years ago. Interesting that you should mention those two brands together because it looked like they did so in partnership with Nissan, or they just took over some of Nissan's showrooms.
My teacher has a Levante
Japan is into exclusive foreign brands
@@IanCharlesPearce "Nissan is huge in JDM land. Not so much internationally"
Really?
GTR
Patrol ruclips.net/video/wHf2ejIZ44g/видео.html
Maxima
Leaf, Juke, Qashqai
you really think "Not so much internationally"
... and the fact that Nissan and Renault amalgamated back in the 90's when Renault Williams was winning in F1, and the Skyline was literally cleaning up any and all races ....
For the Q&A: Jason as we near the end of ICE, if you could have VW build one swan song special edition what vehicle and engine combo would you love to see them release using parts already available in the VAG parts bins?
Ooh good one thanks!
For me it has to be an new Audi RS 6 Avant with the 5.2L V10 and 6-speed manual
yeah called a rs3 ...
2 ideas of mine:
1.) A modern, yet proper take on the R32 VW, with a refreshed VR6 block design and internals as a last hurrah before the inevitable EV takeover. Make a mid-engined race version, because why not? Frankly, I believe a Golf R32 with a reworked mid rear VR6 layout would be awesome. The French made it work, so can the Germans. Though the W12 powered mid-engined Golf was a thing
2.) An Inline 5 powered range of new Performance VWs, because why not. Inline 5 everything. Jetta, Tiguan, Passat, Golf, etc.
We are nowhere near the end of ICE. Trust me on this.
Thank goodness..... This show gets me through the week.. Last 2 weeks really sucked.
D'aww thanks! Sucked for me, too!
BTW.. Re the baby maser 4door.. Not sure about the stateside sales.. But many of them kicking around shanghai... Which probably also says something.
For the Q&A: what are the most over hyped cars on sale now? The cars that get all the praise by enthusiasts that don’t deserve it.
Well, "enthusiasts" like shitting on all cars for sale right now, so it's be difficult to say they're overrated. Plus, in the very first episodes, Jason talked about overhyped cars, touchinhg upon the 911.
@@surrealtom even though there are SO MANY 911's.. their prices are high no matter what generation..
Missed you guys, and, so glad you're on the mend Jason. For the Q&A: Critique my 'perfect' 2 car collection of F80 M3 and 986 Boxster. Love you guys and I'm totally here to rep the 0.1% female demo! Cheers!
F80 gang 😎
Finally. I was having withdrawals and was worried you both had forgotten us!
Finally someone brought attention to something I've thought about ever since I drove a Panamera but haven't heard anyone mention. The cost of heavy vehicles that can handle and break.
Brake!
"Brake" and "Break," both.
When I was 35 years younger and sportscar shopping I was shown a masserati.. and i commented how it seemed very cheap being 5 years old.. i asked why and was told you find that out if you buy one.. they would make my lancia scorpion seem bulletproof. I owned my lancia 20 years and loved it.. especially after I put the dino 6 in it. God it was pretty fast and sounded amazing
WE MISSED YOU GUYS!
Please let us know when we shouldn't expect a Monday podcast, but thank you for the wonderful content!
And glad to hear Jason, did not in fact, die
100% agree with Derek on the in-person versus photos thing. People think cars look better in real life... because real life looks better.
The Quattro 5 and the mc12 are my all time favs.
Okay, I didn’t think this topic was going to be something that I was interesting in from the title, but…as always Jason and Hyphen killed it! 1:00:30 of great content. Carmudgen is THE best show on the interwebs.
Woo! Thank you!
For the Q&A: Could Derek take a deep dive of how Issimi functions and what he does there?
These podcasts are a huge deal to me. The ones on transaxles and porsche 911 are truly classic and educational if your not allready in the know.
So thanks for getting better and getting this out.
Man this is easily the best episode you guys have done. Honest, enlightening and some amazing product planning from two people who aren’t product planners. Keep it up! Always enjoy the show.
For the Q&A: If you had to re-fill your garage completely with all new cars (MY 2022/23), price non-constraining, as many as you need, what would you choose?
John Elkann (Agnelli family) is still at the top of both Ferrari AND Stellantis, make of that what you want. My take is, nothing has really changed, Fiat’s still the boss (it just changed name a few times)
I think you've pointed to the right direction. The vision of Maserati being the low tier Ferrari which was shared by Agnelli and di Montezemolo did not match the vision of Elkann and Marchionne. And that's how we got here.
Have never listened to this pod cast b4, and about 5 mins in waiting for something of substance, and I’m sure it will improve. But I have an MC20 (first Maserati I’ve ever had) and an F8 and I have an allocation for a Cielo. I love my MC20. Much more civilized than the F8 and drives like a light weight go-cart. Love it. Maserati s doing great with their upcoming line-up now that they are out of Ferrari’s shadow. Just gave my SF90 allocation away and would not trade it for my totally enjoyable and drivable MC20. They definitely should exist and I’m excited about their future.
As I get further in, if you’re in SoCal, hit me up, and you can try my MC20 as you said you’ve not had the opportunity and you can form your own opinion.
Trickling up FCA product is biggest offense for ruining Maserati. As you guys said Maserati "was" trickle down Brand from Ferrari. That's why they were good because stuff they received were engineered for higher priced product. I completely agree that Ferrari should sell their SUV, Entry FR GT car as Maserati but executives probably just realized that Maserati simply doesn't have a volume to make it cheaper than Ferrari. So why not just sell it as Ferrari and get more money?
So FCA did a economical thing and trickled up FCA product as a Ghibil/Quattroporte. They are basically Fiat flagship - Ghibil being biggest offender with platform drived from W211 and engine manufactured from same factory line as a chrysler penstar.
MC20 is also trickle up product, using modified Dallarah chassis of 4C because of that MC20 with carbon tub WEIGHTS 3 7 0 0 LBS! (according to C&D) which is similar ball park as a C8 Corvette with a freaking back bone chassis.These clearly shows that trickling up product with limited budget with pedestrian platform (which could not even be considered more competent than competitiors in its original market segment) can only go show far...
I think trickling up product can work if brand below has volume to justify overenginnering it (aka Audi A3 & Golf, Q8 & Cayenne, RX & Highlander, Hyundai Ioniq 5&GV60) but we all saw fwd BMW 2 series failing, SAAB Caddilac failing and most notably Maserati failing because chocie was only economic and not based on competency of the original product that these trickle up product was based on....
Now that Ferrari is gone from FCA, I see no way of Maserati being relevant. Because with Ferrari IPO, poor sale of Alfa and Maserati, Maserati can only be trickle up product of Alfa Romeo... which is sad because I genuinely got excited about idea of using Alfa platform with Ferrari PowerPlant... I think thats what Maserati should have been, Alfa platform with Ferrari engine ( I guess Alfa engine in lower end trim just like Porsche using 2.9T Audi RS5)
idk, I think it's Alfa that people should worry. Alfa sits in the mid ground in Stellantis lineup and it sits too close to Maserati. If Stellantis were to invest on future of Alfa, it should've been opposite of current situation; MC20 being cancelled, GranTurismo getting cancelled, Ghibli getting cancelled, etc. All Maserati's new cars shares or derived from Alfa's platform, and strangely enough, Alfa is not getting any new vehicles out of those platforms. Alfa is becoming new Lancia and I hate to see it.
@@225lee99 I don't think Gran Turismo and MC20 necessarily effects Alfa. I would think those product would not have made sense for Alfa anyways. But it is true that Gran Turismo seems to be based on Giorgio platform or something based on that ( which I don't necessarily think is bad) but they are priced so high compared to Alfa.
Also Grecale being Stelvio cousin doesn't really effect Alfa imho because it's priced higher. In fact, I think its Maserati that's in trouble. Nettuno V6 doesn't really distinguish itself from Ferrari-Alfa 690T other than more power while base 4 cylinder is just Alfa cousin while being Alfa Quad money. So why would anyone buy Maserati?
I think it makes complete sense for Masearti to use Alfa platform in terms of business and product placement. But I think Maserati should have used Ferrari engine to justify its price. Right now there are simply not much difference between Alfa and Ferrari.
If Gracle had Ferrari V8 and Maserati charged 140k for it, I think people would have considered it more favorably than 100k for V6 one with 520hp which is barely is more powerful or luxurious than Stelvio with 500hp for 80k
@@racesuey I have no problem Maserati getting new vehicles. What I'm pointing out is that Maserati is getting those new vehicles off of Alfa's platform while Alfa is only getting Tonale and maybe new headlights for Stelvio as facelift. That's it, no new Alfa has been teased, rumored, or spy captured beyond that. Hence why I said Alfa is becoming new Lancia. For Maserati, if worst, can just take Alfa's spot no issue, and position themselves in the German big 3's spot. Stellantis already focusing on expanding Maserati more than Alfa.
Tonale seems like Alfa's last shot, but even than they made Dodge version of it for insurance. If Alfa fails this, there's no place for Alfa.
And no, the day of Maserati getting new Ferrari's engine is long gone. And with emission standards and other bullshits, it is more logical for them to focus on electrification while using Nettuno engine(which is technically Ferrari derived.) You just can't invest on new engine development nowadays. Even if did make one, it would not sing because of emissions. Trust me I love Maserati v8's my family own GranTurismo Mc and it sounds nuts. If they really wanted v8, sourcing hellcat engine would be easier but I doubt it will ever happen. But it would be nuts if they did.
Grecale you mentioned last should not or will not exist because Levante Trofeo exists.
@@225lee99 Alfa did get a new Vehicle, it's called Giulia and Stelvio. They launched as 2016 and 2017 model year. So it's actually only 1 year late for the facelift compared to germans and around same schedule compared to Japanese and new headlight and infotainment system is part of their facelift.... Maserati launched its sister car late because it's trickle down product. I'm sure engineers will go back to launching a new Alfa when Maserati is launched (unless it's canned because Alfa sales numbers are poor)
Tonale is based on same platform as Jeep Compass. It's literal definition of trickle up product. I honestly don't care for about the fact that it's a Alfa led project because at the end of the day it's based on Fiat Chrysler FWD platform.
Also whats the point of Nettuno when 690T exists? That's the exactly the point why I think Maserati needs a true Ferrari engine, as I said, I understand the logistics but the point is that I think it's what they need to be competent product.
You dont get my point about Ferrari Gracle. Levante is based on Chrysler-Mercedes platform hence its flawed. It would be less flawed if that engine was based on true Italian and competent Alfa platform aka Gracle. Also, you are dumb for saying Levante Trofeo would prevent the Gracle with V8. Levante and Gracle is different segment, Cayenne and Macan shares engine same story here. And actually Gracle has similar proportion to new Ferrari Suv. So it shouldn't be an issue and at very least I'm expressing my opinion for ideal Maserati positioning.
@@racesuey We are talking to walls at this point. Again, in no point I disrespected anything what you have said other than disagreeing Grecale comment. I am just saying that Alfa is in worse shape because they are getting minimum support compare to Maserati. And I am glad you brought up Macan / Cayenne comparison. Grecale should only have v6 unless Levante gets v12 because Levante is simply class above Grecale. Even Macan does not have a v8. What would more likely happen is that Levante gets redesign in the future and coming up with giorgio platform plus v8 combo. I don't see Maserati teamkilling their top of the line suv unless they make one-off or special edition for Grecale.
And for engine comment, they had to make v6 because of emission standards. And for Maserati's pov, it's even powerful than their trofeo engine while meeting emission standards so it completely make sense for them. And they already teased 1000hp electrified GT and working on electrified MC20 so no, new v8s are done. It is what it is. And like I already said, I too wish Maserati to bring new v8 but they are already done at this point. They can't go back to drawing board and scrap everything. Even Ferrari is coming up with v6 hybrid these days. Trying to go beyond Ferrari is too much of a stretch and too ambitious.
AGAIN, I'm not trying to ignore your opinion. I respect your opinion and I think you should too.
Bye.
+1. .. Great discussion. .. In a heartbeat, GM brass ditched Oldsmobile, and Pontiac, sold Opel, GM assassinated Saab, and ditched other entities.
"Time waits for no one and it won't wait for me" - The Rolling Stones ... Maserati's time is up. . My $.02
I love how this episode ended on a cough and a clap combo. Welcome back lol
For Q&A: given your appreciation of revvy Hondas, playful Miatas, and practical 86/BRZ twins, have you driven those cars when prepped for SCCA's Street Touring Roadster (STR) class - maybe for a future Revelations episode? ND2, S2000, 2.4L 86/BRZ are much more fun when their potential is unleashed with sticky 255 width tires, light suspension and tune.
Glad you guys are back at it - feel better soon and keep up the great work!
None of those cars are more fun with sticky tires. They are faster though!
Best Podcast on the tube...it's like I pick the subjects you guys talk about, very similar interests!
Q & A: If you had the freedom to choose parts from other cars (Engine, Transmission, Chasis, Shifter, Steering, Design) and put then together to build your ultimate car, what would you build? Ignore engine sizes and other obvious problems. I mainly wanna know whats the best components regardless of what the rest of the car is like.
Or would something like a T.50 satisfy all the needs?
I was really wondering where the episode was... glad you're back!
Also I suggest to talk about Jaguar, Lancia and Fiat too because they were doing great cars (especially Lancia) and now we see only 500's and Jaguar canceling its flagship sports car..
For the Q&A: Wings and winges: What are the most ricudulous, common, useless mods that you've seen? Similarly, what is the mod most should consider and why?
For Q&A: Recently marked the 20th anniversary of the first showing of the Clarkson, May, and Hammond Top gear, how much do you guys think those 3 change the automotive and it's journalism landscape since that?
Q&A Question:
Can a GR86 (or any modern attainable car) provide as satisfying a driving experience as classic lightweight sports cars like a Porsche 964, 240z, or Alfa 105?
Or do we need to aspire to own these increasingly unaffordable and high maintenance older cars to enjoy the best drive?
A really interesting topic. The same could really be asked about Lancia as well
and Jaguar
In Lancia’s current state, no. Let’s put it in the history books before they go EV. I want one legendary manufacturer untouched by this electric madness.
@@wyattmunger5529 honestly, Lamborghini should've died with their V12 glory while they could. I don't think a brand should exist just to sell rebadged Audis
@@matthewlange8616 Came here to say this about Jaguar. All the SUVs should be Range Rovers and Jaguar should be ICE and EV sedans and EV sports cars. Who (other than listeners of this podcast) drives a sports car hundreds of miles in a sitting.
@@cgmoog enthusiasts who still haven't discovered this podcast. All 27 of them...
For the Q&A: when you guys discussed the best sounding car, Jason stated the aventador I was wondering if he meant more specifically an svj with a gintani exhaust? Because a murci shouldn’t be dismissed so easily unless it’s that.
You’re back! 🎉
Question for the q&a show! Since the 911 is so unanimously revered across all of auto journalism, why is Porsche the only OEM to make rear engine sports cars? A bit of a moot point now given the onslaught of electrification… but curious to hear your thoughts. Especially since the 2 of you are essentially the old, grumpy but generally right about most stuff history professors of the auto journalism world.
For the Q&A: Why are many car collections being sold?
Do the owners of these cars still own other, better cars that aren’t being sold? Will this trend of collections being sold continue?
For the Q&A: opinions on classic British roadsters ( MGB's specifically) as an inexpensive FR sports car for young enthusiasts? And why they are seen as unreliable in the US and reliable in Britain?
So glad your back. Missed you.
I always learn something from your shows Jason, and Derrick is great too. Thanks for making time for these.
Good to know that Derek still claps like a baby learning to clap. 😂
Welcome back :)
I would love an episode of the Corvette C4 :)
Kudos for spelling Škoda the right way! It seems this brand is the bottom one for VW, but some models had to be cut of because they were more successful than VWs :D
Q: What's the best sounding forced induction car?
Hello Mr Sandler and hyphen!
for the q&a: how do you see the future of enthusiast oriented cars? do you think that electric steering will ever get to a point where it actually transmits the road with some accuracy? by what you say, Jason, it seems as though Porsche and Mazda (you mentioned the cx50 was great at this and it really intrigued me) are actually going somewhere with this. do you think hydraulic has a future? ( not if the industry goes full electric, of course)
i am studying to become an industrial engineer, specialised in automotive engineering, and being able to work into making future cars slightly more driver focused is my goal in life. as a classic car enthusiast and owner ( i bought a mk2 gti kinda because of you jason) i thoroughly dislike the direction the industry is heading towards.
Also, do you think there is a bright future for electric enthusiast cars? whenever this idea pops into my mind i can´t help but think: "how would colin chapman have made an electric sports car?" and then i realise that although he might not have, tesla made the roadster based on the elise. i have a couple of ideas on how a fun electric little sports car might be, but would love to hear your take on this.
and for Derek, as a young guy who loves classics myself, how do you see the future for the pre eighties stuff? as far as i can gather there´s been a massive shift of focus and the older stuff is getting less attention as 90s supercars go more and more valuable (of course this has to do with the fact that new generations are driving the market and they tend to buy what they dreamt of when they were kids) but mainly, i fear for the elderly stuff. i have a deep fondness for pre seventies cars and pre war stuff, and i just dont see any interest for these cars whatsoever on future generations ( of which i am a part of) what is your take on this subject?
sorry for the long text :) thank you both so much for what you do, i genuinely love it and have been watching since the first episodes over at issimi.
cheers and kind regards from Spain!
That "adjacent to a hyphen" pun was glorious!
For the Q&A, VW group started to put drum brakes on the rear of their ev's. Will other brands jump in and put drums in the rear too?
Also, automakers are testing locking features behind subscription-based pay wall. With the characteristics of ev being light on maintenance, will those two trends be the future of the auto-industry?
I want to hear you guys thoughts on this.
I don't see drum brakes having a come up based on their looks alone. Manufacturers will go to crazy lengths to make a car look fast/capable. Think about all of the cheap 4 poppers you see with dual exhaust. It doesn't make them sound or perform better and it costs a ton of extra money. Yet you see them on everything because it looks good. Same deal with drum brakes. If perspective buyers associate drums with cheapness then drums will not be put on those cars
@@puddud4 I hope that's the case.
Great question
@@puddud4 Drilled and slotted drum brakes. the future.
But honestly, I don't think most customers of the economy cars like the ID3 care about the drum brakes, but this does become relevant a soon as stuff like the passat gets replaced. Although the ID3 does replace the Golf, or is supposed to at least, wich isn't just an eco car to people, hm.
Won't work for performance stuff though. yep, good question, interested to hear the answer
Check the Ford Puma out if you want to see where Maserari took the inspiration from for the Grecale.
For the Q&A
The Citroen SM (and DS) were both described in period as being so far ahead of everything else that there was no decent comparison to make. Why haven’t a majority of the features of those cars (especially SM) made it to market? The teardrop shape made famous by these cars (or arguably Tatra) is found in a majority of cars today, as are fiber reinforced roofs, and lightweight alloy or carbon wheels. But where’s fully powered steering like Diravi? Why has hardly anyone adopted headlights that follow the steering? Are they just not that necessary?
Fully powered steering is making a comeback especially as manufacturers experiment with different shapes of steering wheels (see Toyota's EV, cant be bothered to check its ridiculous name now). Certainly those systems won't be hydraulic but I can see it becoming widespread. Fun fact: Citroen did have interior proposals for the SM and CX with a steering yoke but reportedly thought the public wouldnt like it.
Steering lights are fairly common among high end cars nowadays. Not as extreme of an angle as the SM but I bet some of that is compensated for by vastly superior lighting tech.
Excellent episode. Only gripe is the camera angle on Jason chopping off half of his head. Lol
For the Q&A: what are your thoughts/dreams of hypothetical engine swaps? I'm building an LS swapped 300zx so I'd also like know where you believe an LS swap specifically is a great idea, and where you think it's sacrilege
Q: If you two had to trade one of your cars with eachother which one would it be and why?
Once more as I’ve said. BMW styling is just the tip of the issue with that company
Q&A: In light of the greatest sounding engines conversation; Honda made a naturally aspirated inline 5. Relative to their magnificent inline 4s... Thoughts?
The bora and merac (excuse my spelling)
Have one of Maseratis few talents. FRONT Ends! They often have great looking front ends on their cars
me: hmm its been a minute since the latest carmudgeon. i'm sure they're relaxing and will come back more chill
carmudgeon: maserati a fuck
I love my Quattroporte GTS!
For the Q&A:
Which car would you recommend as 1st, relatively cheap, fun weekend car.
What is you guys view on caterham? I'm seriously considering to buy 1. extreme light weight, not too much power. I see it as car equivalent of a motorcycle, so I will only use it when I want to have fun and weather allows it. I'm not considering to go to the track (yet).
I'm I correct in thinking it is a good car to learn how to maintain / upgrade vehicles?
Thanks!
FYI I'm from Belgium
a discussion that has needed to happen
Hope you feel better Jason. I thought you two had gotten into a fight since you both seem to be happily married to each other 😂
@jason cammisa, hello good sir, moroccan carmudgeon here, wondering, for the Q&A, if you got an ECU tune, when you swapped the E30 wagon's cam? If not, maybe that would help make better use of the Schrick item. Godspeed to the both of you, gentlemen.
For Q&A: If the new M2 looks as bad in person as in pictures but drives/performs as well as the M2CS, which would you choose? A used M2 Comp or the new M2 (excluding the CS because they still list for approx. $120k).
Been waiting for the new episode to drop for WEEKS
Jason, if it’s not too late, I really want to hear you carmudgeon over CVTs in the next q&a
it's my pleasure to have you on my youtube channel, you are randomly selected among winners for today .. Hit me up on telegram for your (prize) 🎉🎁. Congratulation 🤝
Video Question: If you’re ever in Baltimore, would you like to meet for lunch? If not, would you do an episode on how aerodynamics have ruined car design, by smoothing out sharp edges and leaving all cars looking like jellybeans?
PS: The 1950s were definitely Maserati’s peak. But despite its bad reputation, I have a lingering fondness for the Biturbo - I’ll never get to drive (much less own) any of these cars, and the Biturbo LOOKS better than an E30 to me.
Mmm lunch. Sure!
For the Q&A: With every brand having only profit as a goal don't you think the car landscape feels homogenized? And would this lead to stagnation of car development? An environment where out of the box and innovative ideas would be shelved
$50k budget, new or used what do you buy for the best experience around corners that has great driver engagement. Can’t break down every 5 minutes either.
Question: Will a Mondial 3.2 or T in COUPE form become as loved as a GT4?
At the time the fifth generation Quattroporte was released, I thought Maserati had finally found it's niche, which was the space where BMW and Mercedes topped out (BMW 7&8 Series, Mercedes S-Class) and where Ferrari starts off. The Quattroporte V was an excellent competitor to the 7-Series, S-Class, and Panamera. The Ghibli was a misstep as it's packaging and power was too close the Chrysler 300C (and was probably was a large factor in FCA moving Chrysler downmarket). I think Maserati's ideal lineup should consist of the Quattroporte (as a 7=Series, Panamera, Model S competitor), a coupe in the same vein as the MC-20 but with more flair, and a SUV more akin to something between the DBX 707 and Purosangue than the current Levante (which is too close to the Stelvio).
So happens I drove three very different cars of my fleet today. The 2001 WJ Jeep first, mostly highway. Then it's battery mysteriously went flat. So I drove my unrestored 1963 Oldsmobile 88 mostly city driving - the car soaks up the bumps and floats along unlike the Jeep - your reference to the big American sedans of the 60s and 70s brought this up. Then I switched to my warmed over freshened 79 Buick Skyhawk (Monza clone) twisty back roads and city- bumpy ride, but best handling of the three. The question would be, is there a modern SUV or sedan that can do all these in one package? (And not necessarily be a Maserati) - I do not have any experience with newer cars since leaving the auto repair world in 2008
Jason whats your opinion on modified audis with ecu flashes bolt ons ect
For the Q&A what do u think about Right to Repair slowly going away from cars and what the Silicon Valley approach would do to the industry (making a lot of stuff non repairable, locking parts to software and charging a subscription to everything)
is the carbon tub chassis of the 4c, the dallara stradale, and the maserati mc20 just the same carbon tub chassis?
For the Q&A
Why did hydro-pneumatic suspension disappear? To my knowledge only one new car uses this suspension, and it’s the Lexus version of the land cruiser. Every luxury make in the late 60s/70s seemed to use the tech, from Citroen to Mercedes to Rolls, but now it’s all but disappeared. Is it actually better than air suspension? Was it just too complex to be viable in a modern market?
In the 70s, everyone was just licensing the Citroën system 😂
Jason, what All Season tires do you use or suggest? Summer tires in New York don't cut it below 40 degrees and wet. Pilot sport all season 4?
Oh, summer tires are NEVER to be used under 50ºF. I put Pilot Sport A/S 3+ on the Lotus and my mom's Golf, and A/S 4s on my Nephew's G35 and the camera van. They're spectacular in the dry, fantastic in the wet, and... I have no idea in the show. But I have complete faith that they're the best performance all-season tires in the world.
@@JasonCammisa Excellent! Thanks man. Looking forward to #72
What are your thoughts on the new Jetta GLI in comparison to the GTI?
You seem to live wagons- estates in the UK.
How about a podcast on your favourites or none German ones ?
The Quattroportte 5 still makes me weak. Such a sexy musical instrument
Love the M139 chassis!
I wish there was a dct upgrade available lol
@@DailyDriver. Doesn't need it - the later Automaticas had a ZF 6HP which was just as good.
I disagree with the Saab - Tesla comparisson. The things Saab did different were making sense. For example they used green instrument lighting because the human eye doesn't need as much brightness with green as with other colours, and most important: the eyes do not fatigue as fast. Now compare that with the huge screens emitting lots of blue light. (If you remember Golf IV with it's bllue instrument lights as a drastic example: that shit fatigued eyes quite fast.)
And then if i look at the doorhandles of the Model S or the seat adjustment and glove box opening of the Model 3. Saab would have never done that because it doesn't make sense, it's not a better way to do something.
I also remember when TFL had their problems with the rear inner dooropeners in their Tesla the ownersmanual showed that you needed to remove stuff of the door inside to be able to exit the car. In my opinion "Safety-Saab" would have puked about such an idea!
That's a fair criticism. But I stand by my other points. :)
In regards to the base 911 section, is the base 911 worth it?
When discussing EVs, why don't you guys mention Fisker as a new(ish) startup with their new model, the Ocean?
Hi Jason, since you are the only one of the two of you (I think) who has driven the GRolla, based on the complaints that you had about feedback feeling in the car, do you think aftermarket modification that are in line with the things Derek has done to his Golf will make the GRolla a much more appealing vehicle to you?
It could go either way. Sometimes mods help and sometimes they ruin cars - I'd have to try one!
@@JasonCammisa seems I'm gonna have to dive into the unknown and find out for myself.
With limited production and sky rocketting markups I don't know if we can even drive one...
I see Ghibli examples daily. I think of them as a Chrysler 300 with a more interesting badge.
Why? I never understood this comparison. They share almost nothing with Chrysler other than window switches and infotainment system
@@elnyoutube123 2 things you see/touch constantly...
@@xeratube okay? Ferrari has had plenty of cars that share even more interior parts with Fiat and you don't hear anyone complaining. I don't think the Ghibli interior looks or feels cheap at all because of the few Chrysler parts. The way they integrated it makes it look like it's supposed to be there, just like Ferrari had done with their Fiat parts. All of the other stuff you see/touch/feel in the Ghibli is much higher quality leather than anything else in its price range.
@@elnyoutube123 Whoa whoa whoa, not every car is for every driver and certainly not every enthusiast. People throw shade at the materials/build quality of my Teslas and there's nothing wrong with that because they're still the best cars for me. I didn't mean to insult anyone's identity by undermining the Ghibli. I just find it deeply uninspiring.
I'm legitimately glad you and I aren't the same!
@@xeratube You need to drive one then cause it's one of the best driving/most exciting cars on sale in a sea of sterile nothingness these days
Hey can u also include conversation topics of cars in countries like india, south africa , japan etc
I’ve seen waaaaay more maseratis in Europe since the Levanti came out, I think the sales figures for them over here aren’t that bad. My neighbor has a V8 Ghibli which makes glorious cold start noises. I also don’t think stelvio and Giulia are failures in Europe, I do see them fairly often, need to look up sales figures
Giulias aren't the rarest thing in Germany, quite a few people lease the 4cyl ones and they are supposedly very good to drive, but they are only not "rare" by sports car standards or something similar.
What I mean by this is, everytime you see a Giulia or Stelvio you notice, they stand out. Now go a week and try to activley notice every single X5 or 3-series, c class and A4 etc. from 2015 onwards, the time the Giulia was released. If you compare what the Giulia was probably supposed to be, a mass competitor to the other sedans, I think it's not looking to great. But it may differ where im from, in recent times everybody here, sadly, has been switching to suv's anyways, and the stelvio is even rarer. Wich I don't mind because afaik no Giulia wagon because of Stelvio, wich makes it a major object of hatred.
Sad story, because they apparently are very nice cars, and I know somebody who had the Q4 rwd as a lease for 3 years, and it never broke down despite being on track a couple times, maybe he got lucky, I don't know.
i feel the new car arent really better it is just like when you lower difficulty( now even manual got shift assist all the driving aids )so in order to feel challenged we need speed so they give us top end power but most of us can t use it ...except for racing a 400 hp muscle car ( no driving aids)((remember when men turned their own steering))will challenge you even a low speed and lower the tickets potential
18:11 Yes, Honda 1st made a 3.0 V8 in 1968, & honda had a 2.4 litre V8 for F1 during the 1st Gen years of the NSX &
3.0 & 3.5 V8 produced for Indy cars, 2003-2011 they could have detuned for the street also.
For the Q&A
Piëch Vs Enzo Vs Elon
Who wins the company bragging rights?
Someone has to be number One in depreciation.
I‘m owning a GranTurismo MY 2018 and love it. It‘s the last NA V8 from Italy and it makes a hole lot of noise beside providing room for four and a vast shape of a sculpture. There are less competitors, may be the Lexus LC500 and the BMW 8 Series, but with not such a history and nimbus. Maserati is one of the most cool brands on the market but the way, the new cars like Levante, Grecale, new Ghibli and also the MC20 goes, is wrong. All the new technology for driver assistance are completely irrelevant for the exciting experience of driving a Maserati.
For Q&A:
Thoughts on the 2016 Genesis Coupe ?
For Q&A : What jobs are there for classic car lovers ?
M5 v10 might be the best early-2000’s sedan.
Q: Why don't we/when will we have a dedicated sports SUV platform?
We know that SUVs are inevitable and we know from the rise of performance variants that people want fast SUVs. Why then in the most saturated and competitive market hasn't anyone chosen to differentiate themselves by making a dedicated sport suv? We've had sporty suvs based on sports sedans (Stelvio), muscle suvs (trackhawk), super suvs (Urus). After so many years of suv mania it's odd to me that Ferrari and Stellantis are the only ones even in the process of taking a jab at a dedicated sports suv
I had an Alfa Romeo Giulia (2018) which left me stranded 13 times in two months, I took it back and sold it back to them.
Absolute shite, I'm saying sat in my Alfa Romeo t-shirt praying one day I can give up my ever dependable Mercedes cars.
I had early 2018 Giulia ti sport. It had problems with turbo and intercooler which bottomed out coolant so entire front had to drop to replace those, and that was 1.5 years of ownership. Right before that time, stock tires were shot so I had to replace them too. For like 2.5 years of ownership, I had like two recalls, one major issue, 6 tires replaced, ended up spending north of 3k just to maintain it.
But I would say it was amazing to drive around canyon and twisty roads.
THIRTEEN TIMES?!?!? That has to be a world record!
Let's all hope the all-in-SUV wave will finally come to an end at some point.
EEEEEEEEEEyyyyyyyyyy y'alllll baaaaaaaaack
Judging? Naaaaah, "we're glad to have you with us" 😄
Native Italian speaker here, Nettuno is pronounced opposite of what you said. In fact your 'wrong' pronunciation as you did at 13:00 was actually the right one, while you were right about Modena pronunciation at 13:04
It's nettuno (netoonoh)
(-1 point to Hyphen)
And the alfa tonale drives surprisingly good
I usually agree with you guys, but no SUV = no survival in today's market. Sedans aren't where it's at (even though we much prefer them) and there's no volume in high end GTs. You gotta build what the market wants even if it means playing disco.