Do Cars Reflect Where They're From? - The Carmudgeon Show with Cammisa and Derek from ISSIMI Ep. 78
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- Опубликовано: 11 дек 2022
- On this episode of The Carmudgeon Show, Jason and Derek riff on a question that came up during a previous Q&A episode: do cars reflect where they come from? Does the country of origin impact how they're designed and engineered? Sweden, Germany, America, Japan, etc. how do these locations influence the end product that you end up driving? As always, Jason and Derek have their thoughts and they're ready to share.
All this and more, brought to you by the Hagerty Podcast Network. 
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Please never stop making this podcast
If Hagerty will allow a podcast with 200 views a video to continue, I think Jason and Derek will be just fine.
1:00:00 this is some precise rambling
After all those ramblings about what makes a good American car, why are we even slightly surprised at the number of crossovers that Detroit now makes? It just seems inevitable
Jason, loved the m539 video with Sretton , tour of your garage, and that Kei car is the real deal!
Oh, Jason actually says "Murcielago" like that. Now I only used Top Gear and Google Translate to verify this, but for someone who has made me start saying Lancia correctly, I wasn't expecting it in the Hagerty video nor here. Also, the quote at 43:49 is coincidentally enough from the Top Gear Murcielago review.
Came here to mention the origin of that paraphrased quote re: poor-performing AC feeling like an asthmatic coughing through a straw. Couldn't remember the exact review, so thanks for the specificity.
I've never heard you talk about the Alpine A110 - old and new, for me one of the greatest french cars ever.
Woke up late today because I dreamt I was Hyphen and instead of driving around in his miura I spent the day watching scotty kilmer videos with Jason
Never stop driving. Never stop podcasting!
My BMW Z3 suffers from the same gearing issues as you 190E Jason. It cruises at 4000 RPM in 5th (top) @ 80 MPH and redline is 6500. Feels great because I never have to downshift to pass and the ratios are nice and close when accelerating, but man does it make me worry for engine longevity since I do a fair bit of high-speed driving in it.
Honestly I never understood this whole "don't want to downshift on the highway" think. It takes half a second and I'd rather downshift than have my engine sitting at 3500 rpm all day.
Mike Brewer (the Wheeler dealer guy) has a restored 50 year old Mini Cooper S. He had its body totally re-made(rivited). And before doing it he said he didnt know if a cars soul is in the body or engine. After doing it he said it is "in the people who made it" - I agree 100%
The Mini probably has more soul than Mike Brewer does.
@@michaelteret4763 Now now Edd play nicely!
Jason you said Rivian and Lucid wouldn't do this. A few weeks ago the first snow fell in Oregon and the Rivians didn't have headlights warm enough to melt the ice because we get rain that freezes. Most drivers had to pull over every 20 mins to break off the ice. To be specific that was the experience for everyone going over the mountains to get from one side of Oregon to other, likely coming or going to Portland
The 3800 is legendary. My best friend had a Regal GS with the 3800 and it had so much torque it was insane. And it ran forever. One of the best American engines ever made.
A lot of these eccentricities are getting weeded out with global market cars
You guys missed Korean cars! Korean companies are interesting because Koreans always snatched higher-ups from leading car brands (British Layland, GM, Ford and BMW) to create new product. This with Korean terrain (a lot of mountain and huge weather variance season to season) and culture (love big cars), Koreans created implemented German drivetrain (DCT, diesel etc) with American style car. Like Elantra/Sonata would have DCT with 1.6T engine unlike japanese car with CVT and 2.4L N/A.
I thought this was interesting because Japan/German that in-sourced everything to penetrated into new market (aka Lexus sending engineers to live in US to make LS), because they have belief in supposed cultural superiority (as Bob Rutz said) so they would create a product based on their understanding of what foreign market want.... meanwhile Koreans would just hire foreign executives and follow their lead, creating very diverse products like Hyundai Veloster N (lead by BMW's Bimmerman) to Hyundai Santa Cruz (lead by ex-Ford Truck Enginner)
A cool look into an interesting region Thanks for sharing!
Forgot to mention Hyundai basically becoming Mitsubishis half sister for a while.
A company that had it's doors wide open to Chrysler for a while (DSM) the norm was small displacement higher (grain of salt) revving V6's such as the Dodge Stratus, Intrepid, Sebring, Grand Caravan, 3000GT etc.
This all translated to Hyundai and they even got the 4G63 and 4G64 engine blueprints from Mitsu and licensed them out. Towards the later end other the 2000's Hyundai started gaining traction and made revisions on the 4G series engines and made their own blueprints that were so well made that Mitsubishi took notice and BOUGHT the licensing for that engine that was based off of theirs and re-iterated.
This was the start of the Delta 2/4B11 engines
Aka Genesis and Hyundai Veloster N as you were saying use this Delta engine
And for Mitsu, they used it in the final generation of Evo, Evo 10
I didn't wrap that up well, but my point was, early on, Hyundai started off well by choosing to get American inspired and American used (daily driven) engines and transmissions early on so the drivetrains were almost always up to the task even early on
@@jacobwebb8818 yeah it's very interesting, Hyundai had a British Layland era where they hired George Turnbull and five British executives from Laylad, than they partnered with Mitsubishi, but I think key thing is that Hyundai is never shy about hiring foreign engineers unlike Japanese or Germans
I'd also want to mention the sad tales of SsangYong Rodius, one of the ugliest cars of all time. The car was designed by Ken Greenley, former head of automotive design at Royal College of Art in London. The original design was a fastback MPV, looking similar to, but preceding the BMW X6. However, at the last minute Korean regulations changed, meaning that the Rodius could not enjoy the tax cuts utility vehicles had at the time. The engineers hurriedly slapped vertical D-pillars to increase the seating capacity, thus creating the awkward top heavy looking bastard.
Speaking of regulations, Japan had dimension and displacement tax brackets that limited their passenger cars. That's why Toyota split their Camry to U.S. version and Asia version. Korea did not have such limiting dimension regulations, meaning Korean cars used to be bigger. When Japan sold mid sized cars with varying displacements, the larger displacement cars left the tax bracket and got longer bumpers to showcase its superiority. Korean cars did not have such quirks.
My parents had a Pontiac Bonneville with the 3800 that had 330,000 miles on it before my father drove the thing with no coolant and seized it up. It ran perfectly to the end....ding donging away with the high temp warning that was ignored. I absolutely loved that cruiser as a teenager. What a wonderfully comfortable and reliable vehicle.
I love seeing the 3800's praises being sung. Chirping the tires on my 08 LaCrosse is a wonderful pastime.
Love these deep dives into the differences in cars and just the design and engineering philosophy of the countries they come from.
I love being here asap. I love the podcast. Its educational and fun.
That quote was from Clarkson talking about the Air-conditioning of an old Lamborghini on top gear. Where it felt like an asthmatic blowing on you through a straw 🤣
Carmudgeon and 3DBotmaker are the best things on RUclips, hands down. I would so much love to have an hour long car talk with you two; when are you coming to Baltimore? Bring an LM002, that sounds like fun.
Regarding French cars' cushiness, it's long gone. The first French car I've experienced was 1st gen Megane and boy was that boat sailing. It was at full tilt through roundabouts and the seats were also squishy and cushy, which made the car quite uncomfortable on long journeys. Then my father bought a Laguna II in 2004. This one was capable of going through corners without inducing terror in the driver, but it was still very much on the comfy side of things. When he upgraded to W211 Merc it honestly felt like a downgrade in comfort. I remember our whole family complaining about stiff back seat and uncomfortable ride. By 2010s the French (or Renaults at least, as I have the most experience with them) were already very Germanic in their ride quality. The gap between a Megane and a Golf shrunk by a substantial margin. Modern day Megane RS is said to be one of the stiffest hot hatches out there and people actually dissuade potential buyers from ordering the Cup suspension as it's deemed too stiff for everyday use.
Again, such a wealth of automotive education - thank you!
Still my favorite car podcast. Just pure nerdery. I love it. You guys should just do a Lunch Special at this point, though. 😁
great ep!
Back in the 87 my dad was car shopping and was at a Saab dealer before buying an Audi 5000 CS Turbo Quattro and the Saab salesman said he should get the 900 because it had an airbag. My dad said he'd go with AWD and ABS so he wouldn't need the airbag! 12 years I got that 5000 Quattro for the first several months after I got my license I got a 97 Saab convertible. Of course by then Saab got ABS lol.
So, will DTS expire live on the show before or after the Piechisode? Episode numbers please!
Having driven in Canadian winters for my whole life, it brings limit handling to regular speeds (by and large). FWD is great as it's less likely to get stuck, but come into a corner hot and it'll understeer off the road. Left foot braking is your friend here (or good stability control). The balance of a good RWD car is just as fun in the snow, just at slower speeds. As in dryer weather, tires make a huge difference no matter what you are driving.
Favorite pictogram has to be the seatbelt light - its clearly a bassoon player
I recently went to France this summer and we rented a Renault Talisman sedan. Basically an Accord-ish size car with a 1.3L noisemaker that made just enough power to move the car from a stop. But man, did it ride nicely...like 7 series/S-class quality of float and dampening. I would say the ride quality is still a thing with the French cars.
This reminds me, I need to go outside and put my winter wheels on my Volvo 240. I love using it in the winter. The heater is a furnace and door handles and drip rails help things from getting all frozen over.
I bought a set of those LEDs for my wife's Sequoia maybe 2 months ago. Was pretty disappointed to find the were noticeably less bright than what they replaced but they are still a bit brighter than the stock halogens. Beam pattern is sharp which is was drew me. So far so good, doing well in WA pnw weather
I think Japan’s reliability is a reflection of the need of a steady car in mountanious areas. I also think different countries that share similar geographics share the same car preferences. As someone who lives in an island with a lot of people living way up in mountains ,you only see japanese cars up there
Italian market alfa 164 had a 2.0 busso v6 with a turbo. Called the turbo busso. Very very cool cars. I still prefer the NA but cool non the less.
Wouldn't the mid-1960s Alfa Romeos be something like the pinnacle of Italianess? Small, revvy little motors, good looking and sophisticate suspension.
On Japanese cars, don't forget that the Datsun 240Z was an OMFG sports car in 1970. And the 510 and the first OHC Toyota Corolla thumped the Vega and Pinto in the small car contest.
The italian horsepower based tax system is good as it incentives real sports cars. If you're power limited you make it lightweight!
The best tax system would be a combination of vehicle mass and miles driven, as that's what actually damages/wears/clogs up the roads. STOP BUYING MASSIVE ELECTRIC SUVs
43:51 Derek's reference (coughed on through a straw by an asthmatic) is from Top Gear, specifically Clarkson's review of the 1st generation Gallardo Spyder. Although he doesn't specifically say "coughs" (although he emotes it) nor does he say mouse.
Jason - Us Michiganders bought American cars because we all received discounts from our relatives (or we worked for one of the Big 3 ourselves). Not because of income or class etc 👍
Cool you already made this video.
25:26 Austria has taxes on hprsepower too. but it's not linear. It climbs exponentially. 525 german PS are around 3300€ of tax per year. (ask me how i know...)
This is one reason Diesel cars for a long time made up almost 70% of the cars here. -> In times when most gasoline cars were non turbo, the same tax money brought you a torquier better acellerating car in a turbo diesel that had better fuel efficiency.
And the new car tax was lower as it was calculated on the fuel efficiency which made the same car cheaper to buy and run if you took the same hp rated Diesel instead of the gas engine.
34:27 I think many who have seen the Fiat Multipla (99-04) would disagree, there is nothing elegant or stylish about them.
55:30 A now retired working collegue of mine once lend me a book he bought when he bought his SLK. The book covered the devellopment of the car. Like going full throttle in second gear for a full day at the roads near death valley in the US, and similar stuff. (i think it was the second gen SLK)
You can get a running 10ish year old Benz (depending on the model) in the UK these days for under 1000 bucks because of the high running costs of certain models (larger powertrain). Here in the US you could part out the car for more.
Before Sweden made their own cars we imported American cars in bits and assembled them here, and we also used to have American cars as Police cars and Ambulances, mostly 4WD stuff for good winter performance, because they are large and powerful. These days I dont see much of that, I think we might have some US made vans and maybe a SUV or two but now I think its mostly Volvo's and some German cars. The Police has mainly had Saab and Volvo through out the decades ofc but yeah, some American stuff, I've seen Chevy's and Jeep Cherokee's and many different vans.
We also have the best Pizza! ;)
We also had one of the biggest Muscle car events in the world here, they say its THE biggest, but I dunno.. for like 30+ years but it has almost died out now, atleast in the form it used to be, now its a big more streamlined, big names like Jay Leno has been here for this, and his Swedish mechanic likes to go to these events.
Also, I'm so over "Swedish Chef" thing every time people talk about Swedish people! xD Its personal, dont ask! ;P
You can talk crap about post-lunch shows, but they feel more like 2 of my friends sitting at a table with me, just bullshitting. I fucking love them, so natural feeling.
I just realised...we are in December.... I know you are avoiding numbering episodes to allow jostling of pre recordings....but promise me (all of us) you have recorded enough to get us through x-mas/new years 😕🙏
In college my D15 5spd civic driving home @ 75 with the motor screaming the whole way. Had to blare my audio system to drown it down
I will say, a 3800 that’s *not* in a Camaro tends to have a long life. I’ve seen two failures, both Camaro engines. But the engine in my car right now is a 280k mile park ave ultra engine that I reringed, honed, and threw fresh bearings and gaskets at. Couldn’t believe there was NO discernible wear to the crank or bores.
The Buick 3.8 was on Wards ten best engines list in the 90's. It was removed from that list within two years due to the many issues, major oil leaks, rotting plastic coolant fittings, and premature failure. I had one in a 96 Regal...bought the car at 147000km and it had a brand new from factory engine due to premature failure. I drove the shit out of that car and the engine lasted...you guessed it 147000km! It was hella fun to drive the shit out of it, because that engine ripped!
In the case of the Camaro could it be the drivers V6 Camaro owners tend to have a certain stigma around them
I had to pause the podcast for a solid minute because I couldn't stop laughing at the idea of the Saab 92 immobilizing the nation
Germany gets to a point where they overengineer things to a point where it becomes detrimental. If you go past 15 mile road north there are plenty of curvy roads in the area. I do wish there were more curves tho
Many cars in Japan are offered with AWD for the mountains like Civics and Fits
Both the civic and fit don’t come with awd
AWD on small cars is one of Suzuki's main selling points in Europe (also Daihatsu to a smaller extent)
@@mythowrose2742 they do in Japan. At least the current fit and previous gens of civics
How dare you wish me Happy Honda days when you know my family celebrates Toyotathon. Classic Hyphen.
That BMW thing is so annoyingly funny and true. One of my co-workers here in Germany has an F10 5 series and is at, I think, 5 re-sealed doors already.
the whole ac being coughed on by a mouse is from Clarkson Derek and Ironically enough it was for his LP-640 review when calling to mind the air conditioning systems of Lamborghinis of old. But if I'm not mistaken he also used it for the diablo
@INBOX.ME.TheCarmudgeonShow 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 spoken like a true nigerian prince!!
My 2021 Volvo V60 was made in Belgium. Designed in Sweden or China? What is that car's culture ?
Just to add to this conversation:
I live in the UK and Japanese cars never made sense. Usually for the same price I can get a more powerful, newer and more luxurious BMW, VW or Mercedes. Then I went to Japan, and somehow Japanese cars now makes sense. I am yet to drive one, but that experience enabled my brain to like Japanese cars.
Got 220k miles out of my old Buick lesabre presidential. Used to routinely smoke the strangled 5.0 mustangs of the day
dont know why is was thinking this episode would include boxes on wheels from Down under aka Australia ... :-)
I think this is the second geographical episode. I’d love to listen to more geographical relations to the car industry. Call it Hagerty Geographic, or HagGeo.
I'd say Derek nailed the part about Italy
Its so satisfying that its 1:00:00.
Pretty sure that air condition (coughed on by a mouse) bit, is from Clarkson, I forget what car he said it in reference to but I'm pretty sure it was him.
I wish there were time stamps that showed when they're talking about nothing so I could skip those parts.
How many Germans does it take to screw in a light bulb? None, if it's engineered correctly.
The Buick 3.8l is legend in my book. I got over 30mpg on the highway with it. I gave my Buick LeSabre to a friend who was struggling at 175,000 miles or so. He put another 100,000 on it. He called to say he finally took it to Victory Auto (junkyard next to O'Hare Airport). I asked him if it died, and he said no, it just finally rusted out.
yes.. US cars are bigger than anything and/or anyone needs and can't be driven fast on a mountain pass.. or a nice road between the hills.
edit. I have a friend that lives with his family in Swe.. and the speed limit is slow(120km/h on the autobahn) and much slower on county and national roads; also, very big fines for speeding.. so, no one drives fast.. anywhere. Driving fast on the equivalent of a mountain pass or a canyon road is something no ones does or conceives doing.
When I talk about 180km/h in the open portions in the hills, between the villages, he tells me that I'm mad.. and probably I would be sent to jail in Sweden.
There are a no. of countries, beside Sweden, that hate cars, really hate them here in Europe... beside their neighbours, Holland, France and Austria(and maybe Portugal.. maybe). These countries really hate cars and are doing the most of what they can, in order to stop them and lower the speed limits, encuraging you to not travel by car. Higher taxes, higher fines, etc-etc
The final "Happy Honda Day" comment proved that I can overtly laugh and cringe at the same time. Derek takes the win for "bad dad joke" of the month!
I’ve driven 3800s for 22 years. They’ll cruise forever and I get well over 200k miles on each. And will get close to 30mph at constant US highway speeds.
And they’re easy to fix.
44:00 Top Gear :)
40:18 "Rectal Linear" hmmmm. 😅🏁🍾
I still abide that RWD cars with winter tyres are the best cars in the snow. Having your power and steering on separate axles is invaluable. I guarantee I can out-manoeuvre any FWD car on the same tyres
52:40 For Chevy cavalier story.
My ‘01 LeSabre has 260k and still gets 26mpg average
So today I was watching Sreten's episode with you Mr Sandler. You told him that you bought the Mercedes on the day of your 36th birthday, exactly like the lady who originally bought it back in the day. And now we learn that you moved with the 'Cosworth Mercedes' to Detroit at 30-31. Something's not right with this car's papers ;)
He’s had two!
@@Dtamscott :O that's a plot twist!
This is why so many of the "American car stereotypes" really don't apply to the entire country, they apply to the parts between the Rocky front ranges and the Cumberland Plateau. By and large the rest of us Americans aren't represented by a lot of our nation's own automotive history.
The Swedish Chef is from The Muppets. Bork, bork, bork!
How much can you Bench?
There's one French car manufacturer that has great designs (i.e. not weird), not soft suspension, and are made to go crazy speeds: Bugatti.
for those wondering 1000m south from the center of germany puts you somewhere in tunisia
Y'all need to be stop being insecure that's it's boring and etc i love listening to you both blabbering 😂😂
What gives with suspicious looking Whatsapp and Telegram response requests?
Spam! Report them please
@@Dtamscott Thanks. Will do.
No Australia 🇦🇺 Big sad 😞
You missed your opportunity to chat about bogans, Ute musters and tip in burnouts with 871’s hanging out the bonnet. Yes, bonnet.
In fairness though, it’s just GM repeating itself; Holden VF Commodore = Chevy SS. A majority of our major cities are coastal and there’s vast amounts of land between most major city’s which means highways and v8’s lugging along barely churning over.
Always wonder, what are electric cars going to do in a "stuck on the freeway in the snow for 3 hours"? Will the batteries handle it? Will they keep heating the car? If your low on battery when you get stuck are you fucked? Should you get out of your electric car and find someone burning gas to stay warm?
Jason
On the episode with M539 driving the e46 M3, did the convertible top cause any issues to your driving? Did you have any less fun because it was a Conv? Didnt look like it to me! Soo, cut the bs bashing e46 convertibles!!
American cars have advanced considerably since the 70s and 80s.
When it comes to cars I’m sort of a nationalist. I want my American cars to be built in the US by Americans, Japanese built by Japanese in Japan, Germans, etc. Cars are still the mostly the only major manufacturing/industrial sector in many countries and IMO are a source of national pride
France is the parallel universe of automobile manufacturing; similar but different.
I can't stop laughing🤣🤣🤣🤣 You guys are the best! I love your irreverence...in this day and age it's so refreshing! But on a serious note...the Polestars all come from China, don't they?
Italians are to Ferraris like mid-westerners are to American V8’s
if Polestar can kill Mose faster then my Saab 900, i buy
No episode numbers ? How the fcuk are we supposed to keep a track on whether we have seen them or not ?
By looking at the title? Lol
Look at the date
Hit "Like" on every video, then look for the blacked out thumbs up. Everybody wins.
Yes, it's called terroir
why make it exactly an hour long that's so boring I like the more natural timing
14:00 "Germans don't care"
Cries protest in 7500rpm for 10 minutes :(
British?
Jason shouldn't hold back from the brainwashing point of the US public on car brands cause it's quite evident and explicit, compared to their view scope to foreign brands.
Depends on the age there is an American bias if you are older than a millennial if you are younger than a millennial the bias is heavily towards Honda and Toyota
It's 20 euros per kW after the first 185 kW (252 PS)... DAMN!!! every 5 years it gets cheaper, though, and expires after 20...