Restoring an 95 600SL now, it's a beast of a project digging out all the "biodegradable" wiring. Hydraulic suspension is also a huge complexity. Bought it for $3500 and easily have that in parts, doing all the work myself. Amazing engine, just got the throttle bodies working. Wish me luck.
Good luck. I hope you get it all working. Any of these cars deserve to be restored and then driven. They’re too interesting to let sit and rot. I respect that you’re bringing a neglected one back on the road. The car deserves it.
@@Raziel3794 It works, been running her for 8 months with no problems. Still have to do the hydraulics on the roof and some minor body and paint but other than that she is 100%. A bit of a slip in 3rd so the transmission will need to be rebuilt but I am ignoring it for now. Runs great, happy its on the road, registered, and going. Only take it out on the weekends now, but for about a month I used it as a daily. Very easy and comfortable car to live with.
Yeah totally agree! Their USP is the ability to go into extreme depth on such a wide variety of cars. Way past every other auto commentator/creator I've ever come across. This show is peak automotive discussion imo
Cammisa, "He will drive them until the end of his life". DTS, "As many SL drivers do." LMAO Great episode. All the numbers and letters brought me back to organic chemistry class. I even took notes!
I used to work for one of the worlds most respected collector of pre-merger AMG's if it's a cool old Benz I've driven it, E60, 500E, E36, 560 SEC Widebody, Koenig Specials, 190E 2.5 16v.. Well north of 50+ old school AMG and Mercedes Benz cars from the 60s through late 90s. I totally disagree with your comments on the M119 vs M113, the change from 4 valves to 3 valves and SOHC was NOT a downgrade it was a different type of engine entirely. It was significantly lighter, produced nearly identical torque over a grand earlier in the rev range and kept that up for most of the power band making it extremely usable in the real world and faster because of the extra torque and weight saving. The variable length magnesium intake and dual spark plug combustion chamber design was a stroke of genius in terms of burn quality and brake mean even pressure (torque). The finger follower/roller rocker SOHC valve train and single large sodium filled exhaust valves were all interesting choices mostly about using material science to improve durability whilst meeting emissions (as well as contributing to the huge torque band due to the well tuned scavenging effect created by the single big exhaust valve) the simplicity of the engines valve train is wholly irrelevant to it's engineering complexity and design process. It's somewhat typical for non-engineers to think this way because they don't understand the details of material science, the best solution is ALWAYS the most simple that gets the job done reliably, i'm surprised as an American this wasn't understood with your national obsession with push rod V8s. I'll concede in one area, the M119 sounds a lot better but then so does the M156 and that's a piece of shit in terms of reliability.
Couldnt agree more, the m113 is a superb motor, and I have a 2000 e55, which is ULEZ compliant in London, when cars from 2010 are charged for polluting.
Picked up my '00 sl500 a few months back. I've owned a wide range of enthusiast cars with all sorts of engines. Absolutely nothing has compared to the r129. The build quality and engineering is truly unbelievable with a timeless design. Someone even mistook it for a brand new car. I drive it every chance I can.
@@carsaregood911 I just think that Jason is not being honest. He loves his W202 C43 AMG but calls the interior on the R230 'Dodge neon'. That does not make sense. R230 SL55 quality is fine. Edit: Okay, he says he doesn't like the C43's interior but likes the C36's interior - I'm not sure about that one....
Love your content @AMGmeister. I had a Blue 1978 gray market 230 with Ronel R9 wheels, front lip and side skirts given to me from my aunt back in 1995. Wish I still had it.
@@AMGmeister Harris gushed over his SL63 R230 recently in his "Collecting Addicts" podcast and would happily have another one, having owned it close to new. IIRC SLR performance in a more compact package. With that in mind, imma take Chris's word over Jason's on that one 😁
The 722.6 5pd transmissions were actually reliable even after 100k miles. The failure rate you are describing is the conductor plate and the electrical connector. Both items can be replaced as maintenance items and parts cost less than $300 for both.
Agreed. These transmissions came in the the E300 diesel and E320 CDI, the latter of which makes a mountain of torque. They routinely go 300k+ miles on the original 722.6 internals - sure the might go through 3-4 conductor plates but those are cheap these days and no harder to replace than a transmission filter.
I love the fact you guys are just pushing this content out into the world, some may have previously argued, people don't wanna hear it, but its invaluable in its accessibility, the format and shear longevity of it, I've listened to every episode of this podcast periodically out of respect for the creators, but the real value is when you find yourself looking at an SL on a drunken Friday, hovering over the buy now button .. a quick search and suddenly you've got a familiar voice, explaining all the important geeky details you need to know.. what your doing here is simply a public service, full respect!
My grandmother had a 87 560 when I was little and the 129 was the first model car I ever built as a kid. Still love them and would love to get one before values go up. This episode had me on the classifieds the entire time. 😍
I will never not love the pre-Mopf R230. Such an elegant, early noughts shape. My Ex‘s bff‘s husband had a black over red SL55. In 2004. You need to realize what that means. This is before cheap money and leasing. If you had a 55 anything in 2004, let alone a SL, you were balling out of control. Such an everlasting experience to a young, ambitious guy.
For centuries, millennia even, we’ve been told to buy the latest model in the range and spend as much as you can. So I just bought a ‘99 SL500 on BaT and one competitive bidder brought up M119 in the comments. I had no idea what he was on about. Now I listen to this and of course I want an M119. Damn you @JasonCamissa!
Thank's for this very informative video! I got myself a boring 320 V6 because I thought the engine is simpler and easier to maintain. So I hope it will last for a long time.
I want to question you on saying that it was the first fully automatic roof. I had a 1967 Lincoln Continental Convertible and it had a fully automatic roof. It didn't have any latches you just push the button inside or use a key outside next to the fuel door that would put the top up or down. That outside key was really to allow you to get into the trunk or at least what you get for a trunk. Has to be the smallest trunk in a car that's 22 feet long! BTW 17 pumps for that top 😬
@sprezzatura8755 luckily for me the person that had my before me had got the top in perfectly working order. I'm pretty good with working on most car systems but I wouldn't want to have to figure out that top!
I found a 1994 with 84K miles for $8000. Probably going to buy it depending on pre-purchase inspection results. It's 2100 miles from me but the plan is to fly there and drive it back. Might be an adventure. I like the idea of the Bruno Sacco interior (the last year) but electronic fuel injection (the first year). By the way, I am an OLD GUY (75 in March) who will probably drive this to the end of my life! ;-) So there!
Enjoyed your show even with the bickering (LOL). We live in Detroit and are lucky to own 8 benzs from the R129 era. We enjoy daily driving our I6, V8 and V12 R129 SLs all year round. Our W140 V12 takes care of evenings out with another couple. Keep up the great work you two!
The r129 is one of the coolest car mercedes has ever made, considering they've made so many legendary cars A 7.3 Litre v12 is the most ridiculous road car engine to come out of europe, nearly as ridiculous as the viper
OMG - just listened to this show as a podcast - you guys are like dictionaries for the SLs. What amazing knowledge! Can you please do a show on the R107 - you touched on it in this show but would love to hear your thoughts on it specifically, having just bought a 420 R107 (1986). Must now watch your other show!!
So on a technical issue what's Paulo done with the picture. The focus is different as the control pad up front is slightly out of focus and it has a darker look.
@@markusklemm4516 I don't think they went into such specifics for the E30 as they did in this episode for the R129. As you said, it was mainly comparisons to the Miata in the way it drives and hardly any talk of different engines or model year changes, AFAIR.
I love your guy's Passion! You guys mentioned that the changes in 94 and 95 Were just the leather on the door panels and the turns signals, however, you left out the fact that the check engine light is a red indicator, compared to the amber on the dash. The check engine is amber on all of the other years #R129specialist
TIL that I know almost nothing about the R129 even after 3 years of ownership and endless YT videos + BaT listings. Btw, I'm in my early 50s (not 90s!) and don't plan on dying soon! 😬 I think the R129 is the car enthusiast's guilty pleasure and has cross-over appeal to the GenX crowd. Sure, I could own another exotic/sports/fill in the blank... but sometimes you just want to get from A to B in style with a freight-train of an engine as part of the deal. PS thanks for making me consider doing headers and pipes on my SL600.
Owned by both Princess Diana and Tupac Shakur. Two cultural icons that could not be any more different from each other, and yet, when it came time to purchase a vehicle with their own money, they chose an r129 SL. That says it all really, a masculinely powerful machine wrapped in an femininely beautiful package. It is all things to all people. A docile convertible roadster or a tire shredding torque monster. What’s not to love?
I have been looking at the R129. Agree pre facelift cars are better and definitely the M119. Have a 92 400E and really enjoy as a daily. It’s getting a 2.62 diff with a wavetrak, exhaust, 16” wheels and 500E stabilizer bars. Next best thing but not afraid to drive it.
Had the M104 straight six Jason is talking about. Incredible engine. In a W210. 5 speed automatic. To say it wasn‘t exactly the smartest engine/gearbox/chassis combo would be an understatement… But oh boy, when it comes on cam at 4,5k-ish…
@@pauliej4208 Trans is too lazy and likes to be in high gear early which doesn‘t suit the engine‘s high-rev character. You either need the auto with a high torque V8 or the I6 with a manual.
Had a 1993 SL600 and the wiring harness was a pretty bad job on the that car, I believe due to clearance or extra heat of the V12. Both lower and upper harness had to be replaced and can cause quite a lot of money. Apparently this issue affected only 93-96 models. Also don't recall exactly how but the e-gas module (control unit of the dual electric throttle bodies) can go and that unit is very hard to find/replace.
I think the reason for the 107 being more valued by people than the 129 is twofold: the 107 looks like a classic car, while the 129 has some modernity in it's looks. (It doesn't look as old as it is to many people). And the second thing is something that is the same throughout the car market: no ECU's the only integrated circuits in the older 107's were in the radio, and in the later ones: Airbag ecu, and the ABS ecu none of them are needed to make the car drive. There are places that can make almost anything (of course it shows in price) but nobody makes ecu's for old cars. If the manufacturer doesn't have any anymore, and they are horribly expensive you only can get them form junkyards. And sitting in a junkyard doesn't prevent capacitors from aging for example.
The go to guys here in Germany are eps-elektronik in Langelsheim. They've got pretty much everything that you could possibly want (not just Mercedes). Prices ranging from 350 to about 1500EUR for the stuff. Got to know about them through a Motoren Zimmer RUclips video and the workmanship did seem very solid. Just in case you need some ecus. If not have a great day anyway.
@@BO-he6yy Thanks, i don't currently need one, but it's still good to know! One just have to keep in mind that everything has it's limits. (i work in electronics for over 23 years, and there are some items you just can't get anymore, and i doubt that they do single manufacture of circuitboards with several layers for example) Have a great day too!
I’ve got a W211 E320 with the 722.6 and 230k miles. Unfortunately, the previous owner never serviced the transmission. I try to only drive it on the highway as the shifting is very dim-witted. But every 722.6 that I’ve experienced was very durable.
The R230 has a lot going for it! The pre-facelift looks beautiful. What lets it down is its electronics and interior quality. If Mercedes ever offered reasonably priced aftermarket parts to rectify problems it would help improve its image
I love this topic and the obvious knowledge and passion these guys have! The ‘98 SL is in the top 10 cars ever made. ‘98 was, in my opinion, the last real Mercedes. Except for the low production models, Mercedes has gone downhill ever since ‘98. I have a ‘98 SL500 with 48k original miles and an identical model as a parts car. I’m hoping that it stays in the family for generations as an example of near perfect engineering, not yet way overdone and unnecessary like today’s cars. A car that didn’t cut corners in its development and in its materials and build quality. Maybe it is the perfect car.
I bought my 2001 SL500 3 years ago at 79,000 miles for $10k. I replaced the hydraulic cylinders from top hydraulics and the AC blower motor. Other than that the car has been great and is going strong at 107,000 miles with oil changes every 5,000 miles. It was not my first choice as I wanted the pre-facelift with the two tone black/gray with the Sacco interior. But the black with AMG kit looks very nice on my car imo. I replaced all interior backlighting in the cluster and on the dash with amber LEDs also. The car is bone stock otherwise with both original transponder keys and the valet key, wind deflector in perfect shape, and original owners manual with all of the warranty and quick tips booklets. I am tempted to sell for an earlier version if I can find a nice one in the color combo I want.
Shark nose ended with e21/23/28/24 and then came e30, followed by e32 and then e34. Next design e36 - e38 - e39. e46 was "deep facelift e36", then came "full bangle" and it started with e65 and then e61 and e90. Only with F series design started to trickle down form 7-er to 5-er and 3-er.
A friend who lived in Germany once said: Up to 200Km/h (124mph) a 500SEL and 600SEL are similar, but beyond that the 600 keeps pulling like nothing until the limiter.
I 100% agree about which is the better r129. I have a 1997 sl500 amg sport and love the engine and the power and the look of the exterior. Do like the interior better of the 1995 model year
The early cars had issues with the folding top. The system (control unit and sequencing valves) was simplified on later models. A heavy car but pretty amazing for the 90's.
300E-24 dogleg owner here.✌(Bought it because of one of the old episodes from a couple of years ago!) I probably was one of the very few interested in the part from 33:30 onwards as I had some ignition problems before as well. Could you possibly specify which insulator cap you were talking about which is so crucial?
Great respect for this Roadster, well built and very nice looking (they are tons still around) but not sporty & nimble at all.. just a highway & boulevard cruiser, the End!
I suspect the prices for r129’s haven’t gone up as much is because there’s so many specs. You have to be an expert to know which is best and the general market hasn’t agreed which they prefer. Compare to 500E there is a clearly optimum model hence more competition for those
I am doing a rotisserie restoration on my 98 . I want to twin turbo it but I have looked the world over for someone to tune it but I get the deer in the headlights look. Any ideas?
Do the early years have the problem with the biodegradable wiring? I keep thinking about a R129 but despite being able doing almost all my own work parts prices kinda scare me especially the top mechanism. PS I guess I should have listened till the end before asking my question 🤦♂️
I'm glad to see everyone still dislikes the early 00's era of Mercedes styling, keeps the market down so I can get one eventually. Hot take: The C215 CL is up there with the R129 in terms of styling, maybe not as timeless but definitely more emotional and voluptuous.
Great episode; loved the two tone R129 paint jobs too. So period! The M120 replacement harness is apparently no longer available. Car Wizard's customer recently found out the hard way. . .
Depending on the definition that could result in fewer cars than you probably intend. (some would claim 911 for several decades) I would vote to add "from each country that made one" (spain, sweden or france have not made many sportscars. From these 3 i only would claim the original Alpine as a sportscar but was it the best of it's aera? It for sure won many rallyes.)
Did the key issue affect the early cars or only the later ones? I know on some r129s you were unable to get replacent immobilizer keys from Mercedes for several years and were essentially bricked.
Correction: R107 does NOT use the swing axle rear suspension. That was the previous generation - the W113 Pagoda. The R/C107 used the same semi-trailing arm suspension as the W/C126. I'm in the process of building a tribute to the factory built, but never raced, R107 500SL Rallye and I'm transplanting the entire rear suspension with the updated anti-squat/anti-dive geometry from a C126 500SEC and it is completely botl-in.
Good show, but perpetrating the cost cutting myths after merger. The SL was not really affected, other than modular engines. A/C unit same as in the W140, praised for its build quality, Nappa leather not cheap, and post 2nd facelift models got the V12 Brembo brakes (ventilated f & r) as standard, with 17 inch wheels. You should try a late European V6. My SL280 has 204hp only but much lighter engine corners flat with little understeer and is perfect for french country roads.
I bought a 2001 SL500 in silver with the AMG package. Looked great but this is not the bulletproof area of Mercedes that my W201 190E was. It was plagued with electric issues that fall into cracks between neighborhood mechanic and dealership. Also the fact you can’t get replacement keys for 3 years despite Mercedes claim to support their older models is nuts. I switched to 911s.
The Brian Long 129 book is the one I have although it’s hard to find (may be on kindle) plus the Bernd Koehling book is likely good although I do not own it. I’ve bought other of his books and was impressed by the content but the presentation is hilariously bad.
Guys one detail you were incorrect on @23:21 is the 260E did not have the same engine as the 300E. it has a smaller bore than the 3.0 variant and is genuinely a 2.6 M103. But it is strange to think that they went to all that lenght to create a different block and head casting for a mere 20hp difference😂
Did Jason really reference Drawn Together?! Now I know Jason and I have 2 things in common apart from cars: a love for ridiculous animated comedies and weed.
![ARGENTINA vs. BOLIVIA [6-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 10](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/C3wPtKNbAOA/mqdefault.jpg)
Restoring an 95 600SL now, it's a beast of a project digging out all the "biodegradable" wiring. Hydraulic suspension is also a huge complexity. Bought it for $3500 and easily have that in parts, doing all the work myself. Amazing engine, just got the throttle bodies working. Wish me luck.
Good luck. I hope you get it all working. Any of these cars deserve to be restored and then driven. They’re too interesting to let sit and rot. I respect that you’re bringing a neglected one back on the road. The car deserves it.
I believe they corrected the “ biodegradable “ wiring in
1996 - 1997 🎉
good luck and get that beaut on the road again!
Update?
@@Raziel3794 It works, been running her for 8 months with no problems. Still have to do the hydraulics on the roof and some minor body and paint but other than that she is 100%. A bit of a slip in 3rd so the transmission will need to be rebuilt but I am ignoring it for now. Runs great, happy its on the road, registered, and going. Only take it out on the weekends now, but for about a month I used it as a daily. Very easy and comfortable car to live with.
Honestly we should see more episodes like this on specific cars
Honestly if you could do a whole video on the w201 I would be a very happy camper
Yeah totally agree! Their USP is the ability to go into extreme depth on such a wide variety of cars. Way past every other auto commentator/creator I've ever come across. This show is peak automotive discussion imo
Cammisa, "He will drive them until the end of his life". DTS, "As many SL drivers do." LMAO
Great episode. All the numbers and letters brought me back to organic chemistry class. I even took notes!
Who knew that car-nerdiness can be so entertaining and essential? Really, who knew? Well done chaps!
I used to work for one of the worlds most respected collector of pre-merger AMG's if it's a cool old Benz I've driven it, E60, 500E, E36, 560 SEC Widebody, Koenig Specials, 190E 2.5 16v.. Well north of 50+ old school AMG and Mercedes Benz cars from the 60s through late 90s.
I totally disagree with your comments on the M119 vs M113, the change from 4 valves to 3 valves and SOHC was NOT a downgrade it was a different type of engine entirely.
It was significantly lighter, produced nearly identical torque over a grand earlier in the rev range and kept that up for most of the power band making it extremely usable in the real world and faster because of the extra torque and weight saving.
The variable length magnesium intake and dual spark plug combustion chamber design was a stroke of genius in terms of burn quality and brake mean even pressure (torque).
The finger follower/roller rocker SOHC valve train and single large sodium filled exhaust valves were all interesting choices mostly about using material science to improve durability whilst meeting emissions (as well as contributing to the huge torque band due to the well tuned scavenging effect created by the single big exhaust valve) the simplicity of the engines valve train is wholly irrelevant to it's engineering complexity and design process.
It's somewhat typical for non-engineers to think this way because they don't understand the details of material science, the best solution is ALWAYS the most simple that gets the job done reliably, i'm surprised as an American this wasn't understood with your national obsession with push rod V8s.
I'll concede in one area, the M119 sounds a lot better but then so does the M156 and that's a piece of shit in terms of reliability.
What are the pre merger cars that drive the best??
Couldnt agree more, the m113 is a superb motor, and I have a 2000 e55, which is ULEZ compliant in London, when cars from 2010 are charged for polluting.
My absolute favorite Car Podcast 👍
Mine as well, but everyday driver is also fun.
Love the R129 and love the intricate discussion about specific model years, I'll come back to this video if I ever get one
Mega Craigslist frenzy listening to this.
That clip of the equal length runner headers on the V12 was MIND BLOWNING
Here we have kijiji fever
The golden era of mercedes. The r129 for me is pure glamour. Form meets function, the very definition 💖
Picked up my '00 sl500 a few months back. I've owned a wide range of enthusiast cars with all sorts of engines. Absolutely nothing has compared to the r129. The build quality and engineering is truly unbelievable with a timeless design. Someone even mistook it for a brand new car. I drive it every chance I can.
Once again - Jason's bad take on the R230 with Derek back to reality. Great episode!
You're probably the expert on this but is the quality really bad? Pre-facelift R230 SL 55s especially are gorgeous I think
Yeah, that was out there. Pre-MOPF R230 all day every day, esp. SL55
@@carsaregood911 I just think that Jason is not being honest. He loves his W202 C43 AMG but calls the interior on the R230 'Dodge neon'. That does not make sense. R230 SL55 quality is fine. Edit: Okay, he says he doesn't like the C43's interior but likes the C36's interior - I'm not sure about that one....
Love your content @AMGmeister. I had a Blue 1978 gray market 230 with Ronel R9 wheels, front lip and side skirts given to me from my aunt back in 1995. Wish I still had it.
@@AMGmeister Harris gushed over his SL63 R230 recently in his "Collecting Addicts" podcast and would happily have another one, having owned it close to new.
IIRC SLR performance in a more compact package. With that in mind, imma take Chris's word over Jason's on that one 😁
Not even a minute in and Derek calls the R129 vintage. Now I feel old.
Oh boy, saw this on my feed and immediately got distracted😂 One of the best convertibles ever made imo.
The 722.6 5pd transmissions were actually reliable even after 100k miles. The failure rate you are describing is the conductor plate and the electrical connector. Both items can be replaced as maintenance items and parts cost less than $300 for both.
Exactly what I was going to say. The other 5 speed automatic at the time, was not durable at all. The zf 5hp.
I had this transmission in a 2011 car 😂
Best automatic ever.
Agreed. These transmissions came in the the E300 diesel and E320 CDI, the latter of which makes a mountain of torque. They routinely go 300k+ miles on the original 722.6 internals - sure the might go through 3-4 conductor plates but those are cheap these days and no harder to replace than a transmission filter.
Always look forward to getting the clap every monday morning!
Hahaha
I love the fact you guys are just pushing this content out into the world, some may have previously argued, people don't wanna hear it, but its invaluable in its accessibility, the format and shear longevity of it, I've listened to every episode of this podcast periodically out of respect for the creators, but the real value is when you find yourself looking at an SL on a drunken Friday, hovering over the buy now button .. a quick search and suddenly you've got a familiar voice, explaining all the important geeky details you need to know.. what your doing here is simply a public service, full respect!
My grandmother had a 87 560 when I was little and the 129 was the first model car I ever built as a kid. Still love them and would love to get one before values go up. This episode had me on the classifieds the entire time. 😍
Bought a 95 SL320 Black and Gray two-tone with gray interior and I love it! Slowly restoring it day by day while also driving it as my daily!
My favorite version of R129 is SL73 AMG. That's one of my dream cars.
How many are left? Feels like about 6, with the rest being snapped up by Horatio..
HOW does this channel only have thirteen thousand subscribers??
Just purchased a 2000 SL500. I am truly blessed and honored to own a piece of honorable 90’s History
I will never not love the pre-Mopf R230. Such an elegant, early noughts shape.
My Ex‘s bff‘s husband had a black over red SL55. In 2004. You need to realize what that means. This is before cheap money and leasing. If you had a 55 anything in 2004, let alone a SL, you were balling out of control. Such an everlasting experience to a young, ambitious guy.
For centuries, millennia even, we’ve been told to buy the latest model in the range and spend as much as you can. So I just bought a ‘99 SL500 on BaT and one competitive bidder brought up M119 in the comments. I had no idea what he was on about. Now I listen to this and of course I want an M119. Damn you @JasonCamissa!
Damn I love these podcasts they change my day
Thank's for this very informative video! I got myself a boring 320 V6 because I thought the engine is simpler and easier to maintain. So I hope it will last for a long time.
I want to question you on saying that it was the first fully automatic roof. I had a 1967 Lincoln Continental Convertible and it had a fully automatic roof. It didn't have any latches you just push the button inside or use a key outside next to the fuel door that would put the top up or down. That outside key was really to allow you to get into the trunk or at least what you get for a trunk. Has to be the smallest trunk in a car that's 22 feet long! BTW 17 pumps for that top 😬
Those Continental convertibles are superb cars. There is a guy who makes houses call to fully service the top mechanism.
@sprezzatura8755 luckily for me the person that had my before me had got the top in perfectly working order. I'm pretty good with working on most car systems but I wouldn't want to have to figure out that top!
I was going to buy a 99 black one with the amg wheels, but Instead I bought a 92 Subaru Legacy Rs in mint condition 👍
R129 is my favorite Mercedes’.
I found a 1994 with 84K miles for $8000. Probably going to buy it depending on pre-purchase inspection results. It's 2100 miles from me but the plan is to fly there and drive it back. Might be an adventure.
I like the idea of the Bruno Sacco interior (the last year) but electronic fuel injection (the first year).
By the way, I am an OLD GUY (75 in March) who will probably drive this to the end of my life! ;-)
So there!
One of the best episodes so far! I had to listen it twice!
Enjoyed your show even with the bickering (LOL). We live in Detroit and are lucky to own 8 benzs from the R129 era. We enjoy daily driving our I6, V8 and V12 R129 SLs all year round. Our W140 V12 takes care of evenings out with another couple. Keep up the great work you two!
Damn, treat yo self. Wish you many smiles per hour.
The r129 is one of the coolest car mercedes has ever made, considering they've made so many legendary cars
A 7.3 Litre v12 is the most ridiculous road car engine to come out of europe, nearly as ridiculous as the viper
Had to keep Google open throughout to look up model designations as they were tommy gunned for an hour straight. Loved it!
The 5 speed makes 93 to 95 less desirable imho. 96 to 98 are the years to get.
OMG - just listened to this show as a podcast - you guys are like dictionaries for the SLs. What amazing knowledge! Can you please do a show on the R107 - you touched on it in this show but would love to hear your thoughts on it specifically, having just bought a 420 R107 (1986). Must now watch your other show!!
Appreciate the details on fuel-injection systems and other minutiae, but what are the R129 books that our hosts recommend?
So on a technical issue what's Paulo done with the picture. The focus is different as the control pad up front is slightly out of focus and it has a darker look.
Love love my R129 SL, living in NYC does not make it easy; the roads are awful, and hard top on or top down that car is a looker!
I would love to see an episode like this for the e30. Or a time stamp to a past episode where this already happened
They did an episode on the miatas and an E30. I don't have a time stamp, because the comparisons to bmw's are sprinkled all through.
@@markusklemm4516 I don't think they went into such specifics for the E30 as they did in this episode for the R129. As you said, it was mainly comparisons to the Miata in the way it drives and hardly any talk of different engines or model year changes, AFAIR.
Great talk guys!! You both forgot to mention the rare panoramic rooftop! Thanks for the talk! 😘
I love your guy's Passion! You guys mentioned that the changes in 94 and 95 Were just the leather on the door panels and the turns signals, however, you left out the fact that the check engine light is a red indicator, compared to the amber on the dash. The check engine is amber on all of the other years #R129specialist
TIL that I know almost nothing about the R129 even after 3 years of ownership and endless YT videos + BaT listings. Btw, I'm in my early 50s (not 90s!) and don't plan on dying soon! 😬
I think the R129 is the car enthusiast's guilty pleasure and has cross-over appeal to the GenX crowd. Sure, I could own another exotic/sports/fill in the blank... but sometimes you just want to get from A to B in style with a freight-train of an engine as part of the deal.
PS thanks for making me consider doing headers and pipes on my SL600.
Owned by both Princess Diana and Tupac Shakur. Two cultural icons that could not be any more different from each other, and yet, when it came time to purchase a vehicle with their own money, they chose an r129 SL. That says it all really, a masculinely powerful machine wrapped in an femininely beautiful package. It is all things to all people. A docile convertible roadster or a tire shredding torque monster. What’s not to love?
I have been looking at the R129. Agree pre facelift cars are better and definitely the M119. Have a 92 400E and really enjoy as a daily. It’s getting a 2.62 diff with a wavetrak, exhaust, 16” wheels and 500E stabilizer bars. Next best thing but not afraid to drive it.
Had the M104 straight six Jason is talking about. Incredible engine. In a W210. 5 speed automatic. To say it wasn‘t exactly the smartest engine/gearbox/chassis combo would be an understatement…
But oh boy, when it comes on cam at 4,5k-ish…
What didn't you like about it? Am looking for a wagon of that era and appreciate all insights.
@@pauliej4208 Trans is too lazy and likes to be in high gear early which doesn‘t suit the engine‘s high-rev character. You either need the auto with a high torque V8 or the I6 with a manual.
Had a 1993 SL600 and the wiring harness was a pretty bad job on the that car, I believe due to clearance or extra heat of the V12. Both lower and upper harness had to be replaced and can cause quite a lot of money. Apparently this issue affected only 93-96 models. Also don't recall exactly how but the e-gas module (control unit of the dual electric throttle bodies) can go and that unit is very hard to find/replace.
I think the reason for the 107 being more valued by people than the 129 is twofold: the 107 looks like a classic car, while the 129 has some modernity in it's looks. (It doesn't look as old as it is to many people).
And the second thing is something that is the same throughout the car market: no ECU's the only integrated circuits in the older 107's were in the radio, and in the later ones: Airbag ecu, and the ABS ecu none of them are needed to make the car drive. There are places that can make almost anything (of course it shows in price) but nobody makes ecu's for old cars. If the manufacturer doesn't have any anymore, and they are horribly expensive you only can get them form junkyards. And sitting in a junkyard doesn't prevent capacitors from aging for example.
The go to guys here in Germany are eps-elektronik in Langelsheim. They've got pretty much everything that you could possibly want (not just Mercedes). Prices ranging from 350 to about 1500EUR for the stuff. Got to know about them through a Motoren Zimmer RUclips video and the workmanship did seem very solid. Just in case you need some ecus. If not have a great day anyway.
@@BO-he6yy Thanks, i don't currently need one, but it's still good to know!
One just have to keep in mind that everything has it's limits. (i work in electronics for over 23 years, and there are some items you just can't get anymore, and i doubt that they do single manufacture of circuitboards with several layers for example)
Have a great day too!
Great Mercedes episode and loved the wide breath of cars covered this episode.
I thought I was a car nerd, but you've both out-nerded me today!
Sweet! I guess I shouldn't have hid my SL on the street when You and M539 Restorations held the meet a few months ago.
Cammisa with the Drawn Together reference! That's a deep cut, fella.
I’m surprised that Jason seems to hae forgotten one of his favorite angles for a V6. (He covered it quite well in the Corrado episode.) 😊
I’ve got a W211 E320 with the 722.6 and 230k miles. Unfortunately, the previous owner never serviced the transmission. I try to only drive it on the highway as the shifting is very dim-witted. But every 722.6 that I’ve experienced was very durable.
The R230 has a lot going for it! The pre-facelift looks beautiful. What lets it down is its electronics and interior quality. If Mercedes ever offered reasonably priced aftermarket parts to rectify problems it would help improve its image
I bought a 500SL a couple months ago, I just love it such a great car especially for the price
I love this topic and the obvious knowledge and passion these guys have! The ‘98 SL is in the top 10 cars ever made. ‘98 was, in my opinion, the last real Mercedes. Except for the low production models, Mercedes has gone downhill ever since ‘98.
I have a ‘98 SL500 with 48k original miles and an identical model as a parts car. I’m hoping that it stays in the family for generations as an example of near perfect engineering, not yet way overdone and unnecessary like today’s cars. A car that didn’t cut corners in its development and in its materials and build quality. Maybe it is the perfect car.
Just for fact, the Mercedes V12 was also use in the french automaker Aixam Mega Track (only 5-6 ever produce).
very cool
It was that off-road supercar wasn't it?
I bought my 2001 SL500 3 years ago at 79,000 miles for $10k. I replaced the hydraulic cylinders from top hydraulics and the AC blower motor. Other than that the car has been great and is going strong at 107,000 miles with oil changes every 5,000 miles. It was not my first choice as I wanted the pre-facelift with the two tone black/gray with the Sacco interior. But the black with AMG kit looks very nice on my car imo. I replaced all interior backlighting in the cluster and on the dash with amber LEDs also. The car is bone stock otherwise with both original transponder keys and the valet key, wind deflector in perfect shape, and original owners manual with all of the warranty and quick tips booklets. I am tempted to sell for an earlier version if I can find a nice one in the color combo I want.
LOVED this ❤ Learned so much. Gearbox geek facts very interesting. Smug: that I own a ‘94 119 with mono bloks. Bargain perfection indeed ❤
Shark nose ended with e21/23/28/24 and then came e30, followed by e32 and then e34. Next design e36 - e38 - e39. e46 was "deep facelift e36", then came "full bangle" and it started with e65 and then e61 and e90. Only with F series design started to trickle down form 7-er to 5-er and 3-er.
I would argue that the shark nose started with E3/E9, but for sure with the E12.
A friend who lived in Germany once said: Up to 200Km/h (124mph) a 500SEL and 600SEL are similar, but beyond that the 600 keeps pulling like nothing until the limiter.
I 100% agree about which is the better r129. I have a 1997 sl500 amg sport and love the engine and the power and the look of the exterior. Do like the interior better of the 1995 model year
Derek Clapton Fan Boy! 👏
6:19 Great freaking color!
The early cars had issues with the folding top. The system (control unit and sequencing valves) was simplified on later models. A heavy car but pretty amazing for the 90's.
Wait, can your future episode 124 have W124?
300E-24 dogleg owner here.✌(Bought it because of one of the old episodes from a couple of years ago!) I probably was one of the very few interested in the part from 33:30 onwards as I had some ignition problems before as well. Could you possibly specify which insulator cap you were talking about which is so crucial?
My very early Tuesday morning car fix.. time zones
Episode 129 R129? Can't wait for Episode 140, 198, etc... :P
Damn! I guess I missed episode 123 and 126!
Great respect for this Roadster, well built and very nice looking (they are tons still around) but not sporty & nimble at all.. just a highway & boulevard cruiser, the End!
I suspect the prices for r129’s haven’t gone up as much is because there’s so many specs. You have to be an expert to know which is best and the general market hasn’t agreed which they prefer. Compare to 500E there is a clearly optimum model hence more competition for those
I am doing a rotisserie restoration on my 98 . I want to twin turbo it but I have looked the world over for someone to tune it but I get the deer in the headlights look. Any ideas?
That Mercedes V12 start-up is the best in my opinion especially on an AMG
I have one of the 1990 300SL-24's with 5 speed manual, great fun car. 1st gear is a bit of a dog but very rev happy
Do the early years have the problem with the biodegradable wiring? I keep thinking about a R129 but despite being able doing almost all my own work parts prices kinda scare me especially the top mechanism.
PS I guess I should have listened till the end before asking my question 🤦♂️
Loved it! I would’ve loved to hear more about the AMG variants that never came to America like the SL 60 and SL 70 and SL 74.
Extremely rare and expensive as you probably know. Hence why they didn’t talk about it.
So you would drive an E50 M119 over an E55 M113?
Both w210 NA the E50 347hp with shorter gear 3.07 but e E55 354hp with longer 2.82 is still faster
Lotec Sirius uses M120 and one more i read about recently and can't remember. Something French maybe? (and of course the Isdera Commendatore)
I'm glad to see everyone still dislikes the early 00's era of Mercedes styling, keeps the market down so I can get one eventually. Hot take: The C215 CL is up there with the R129 in terms of styling, maybe not as timeless but definitely more emotional and voluptuous.
If you guys do one more show on this car I’m gonna have to go buy one - I’m that close to convinced.
I've been debating the same for about the past year, thanks to these jabronies
Great episode; loved the two tone R129 paint jobs too. So period! The M120 replacement harness is apparently no longer available. Car Wizard's customer recently found out the hard way. . .
It’s available in Europe.
The two tone paint is great!!
This saves mondays for me
No mention of the AMG versions? The 73 in particular that shared the engine with the Zonda
Suggestion for an episode; Best sportscar from each decade, only one from each…
Maybe by decade? By century only gives you three cars, and the 1800s one is going to be slower than a modern moped.
@@redlion145 Ups, I mean decade 😛
Depending on the definition that could result in fewer cars than you probably intend. (some would claim 911 for several decades) I would vote to add "from each country that made one" (spain, sweden or france have not made many sportscars. From these 3 i only would claim the original Alpine as a sportscar but was it the best of it's aera? It for sure won many rallyes.)
Did the key issue affect the early cars or only the later ones? I know on some r129s you were unable to get replacent immobilizer keys from Mercedes for several years and were essentially bricked.
thats an issue all r129's are facing right now.
40:00 It's like a cat nudging a cup to the edge of the table then gently pushing it back to the center without getting caught.
Also audio/video gets progressively off sync towards the end. Shocked no one mentioned the black edition; they're cool right?
Would you pleas, PLEASE do at least part of an episode on the Mercedes CW311?
Correction: R107 does NOT use the swing axle rear suspension. That was the previous generation - the W113 Pagoda.
The R/C107 used the same semi-trailing arm suspension as the W/C126.
I'm in the process of building a tribute to the factory built, but never raced, R107 500SL Rallye and I'm transplanting the entire rear suspension with the updated anti-squat/anti-dive geometry from a C126 500SEC and it is completely botl-in.
A video version of the R129 Wiki page... Me brain hurts!
YES!!! Finally!! Thank you!
The first offroad supercar used the M120: the Aixam Mega Track. French, mid-engined 4 seater.
Good show, but perpetrating the cost cutting myths after merger. The SL was not really affected, other than modular engines. A/C unit same as in the W140, praised for its build quality, Nappa leather not cheap, and post 2nd facelift models got the V12 Brembo brakes (ventilated f & r) as standard, with 17 inch wheels.
You should try a late European V6. My SL280 has 204hp only but much lighter engine corners flat with little understeer and is perfect for french country roads.
Can we nail the focus next week please Paolo!!
I bought a 2001 SL500 in silver with the AMG package. Looked great but this is not the bulletproof area of Mercedes that my W201 190E was. It was plagued with electric issues that fall into cracks between neighborhood mechanic and dealership. Also the fact you can’t get replacement keys for 3 years despite Mercedes claim to support their older models is nuts. I switched to 911s.
There is a used car lot near me which for some reason brought a r129 identical to the one on the thumbnail.
I LOVE Opus Number 1!
great episode, any chance you guys could share the name of the books on the r129?
The Brian Long 129 book is the one I have although it’s hard to find (may be on kindle) plus the Bernd Koehling book is likely good although I do not own it. I’ve bought other of his books and was impressed by the content but the presentation is hilariously bad.
Anyone know what is the book they are talking about? I really want to read it
Guys one detail you were incorrect on @23:21 is the 260E did not have the same engine as the 300E. it has a smaller bore than the 3.0 variant and is genuinely a 2.6 M103. But it is strange to think that they went to all that lenght to create a different block and head casting for a mere 20hp difference😂
Mercedes V12 was also used by the company Mega for their Mega Track
Did Jason really reference Drawn Together?! Now I know Jason and I have 2 things in common apart from cars: a love for ridiculous animated comedies and weed.
drawn together reference? unexpected