Is The New Integra A Future Classic? - The Carmudgeon Show with Cammisa and Derek from ISSIMI Ep. 58
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- Опубликовано: 26 июн 2022
- Every once in a while, a great new car comes along that, despite its overall excellence, still reveals its incapabilities in becoming a sales success.
In this episode of The Carmudgeon Show, Jason remarks on his recent experience with the new Acura Integra, a car which looks better in person despite its snot-inspired launch colors. While Derek initially judges the car based on Legend and not Vigor, he ultimately concludes that maybe there’s more than meets the eye when stacked up against the crop of other new sporting and enthusiast-aimed cars in the segment.
This opens a discussion on the history of Honda and Acura’s image in the 80s and 90s and the types of folks who bought them- some of whom you may have street raced with if you pulled up in a similarly-matched Volkswagen in 1990s Pittsburgh.
Similarly, Jason and Derek discuss the wavering transitions between good and bad in 30 years of Acura product planning, and the importance of thoughtfully relaunching legendary nameplates. Can the current Integra carry the torch and become another future Honda classic? We may need another 30 years to find out.
All this and more, brought to you by the Hagerty Podcast Network. 
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Jason discovering sound effects is like my 11th grade history teacher discovering all the different slide transitions in PowerPoint 97.
lmao 😊
"later, I came back" - Phillips is a genius
That is a Monty Python or P.G. Wodehouse level line.
Please don't have 30 min eps. You guys are the best, I'm always sad when these end.
Same
They are a joy to listen to, and I would love getting 2 hour Caemudgeon episodes, but I find it unnecessary. They stay on their original topic for the most part, so the episodes end when they have nothing else to say about said topic
As an Acura/Honda nerd I appreciated this episode a lot. Slightly off on your 'generations' in relation to the models, but I think we understood what you were saying. "Great but uncompelling" has been the story for Acura for the last 20ish years which is really hard as an enthusiast to watch. It's got to be hard for those at Acura to best what they produced in the 90's.
TSX, TL Type S and the TL SHAWD with a manual are fantastic cars they were produced in the early to late 2000s
for any normal human being:
A. the civic looks better, more cohesive on the outside(and inside, IMO..., while the Integra has an americana feel to its interior)
B. the difference in *quality* of the interior between the civic and the "Integra" is minimal
C. it is just a shameful marketing ploy to resurrect some sales into a dying brand... and considering the halo image and prestige the integra type r had, puting that name on a rebadged civic is just so so lame... and cheap. That's what the problem is.. it feels cheap.. it feels like a sell-out.
.. and of course they did it just in America... as, everywhere else in the world, no one would brought it.
To ppl who still don't get it... it is like Porsche puting their gt rs badge on a bog spec Cayenne... or BMW puting their 3.0 CLS badge on a bog spec 318d. It is an effin' sell-out.
Hey! Thanks for the shout-out! I had both a CL and an RL. Always on the hunt for my next adoptee - have to keep the neighbors entertained somehow. Nice episode. 😎
Sounds like the Integra has the exact opposite problem of the ILX: the manual only comes in the expensive version, instead of only being available in the stripper model.
I definitely prefer the manual being in the highest trim than the lowest
So it's basically being sold as a crowning feature because it's unique now instead of oh you're poor well I guess you'll get a manual
Derek's sad face about modern cars reflects my feelings.
dude, is that your S2K in your Profile pic? do you enjoy it?
@@johnbacon4997
Yeah. Owned it for 10 years, starting at 1700 miles. Previous owner didn't know what he was getting and dumped the car at 8 months. Did sell it because my wife couldn't really get in and out of the car. Replacement was a 987-gen Boxster S. The Boxster is faster and more comfortable but not really more fun. And Porsche lies about their fuel economy numbers but Honda didn't with the S2000.
@@jimiverson3085 Well I'm glad you enjoyed the S2k and hope you enjoy the Boxster!
The spacing between the Civic Si and the Integra is strange, price-wise and feature-wise. The big differentiators, styling aside, are the availability/functionality of the hatch in the Integra vs. the sedan-only Si, and the availability of adaptive dampers in the Integra if you want to tone down the ride a bit. The Si is really a bargain on paper, but it seems like it is comparatively stripped-out compared to the Integra (looking at you, non-heated seats). It does have a decent Bose sound system, though the ELS system in the top-trim Integra has been unanimously praised as being one of the best stereos you can get in a modern car. The Integra has the bells and whistles, and the Civic Si doesn't. (It's also telling that you can get a top-end Civic Sport Touring hatch that ends up costing more than the Civic Si, and while it doesn't have the limited-slip diff or the higher horsepower tuning of the Si, it's more comparable to the Integra in terms of amenities.)
So then, the big issue becomes the price point. The MSRP gap between the Si and the Integra is admittedly huge, and depending on what is really important to you, the Civic Si truly seems to be a bargain. Not everyone wants heated seats or needs the nicest upholstery or the fanciest stereo. That all makes sense. But in real life as things are currently, things get murkier. Everyone has to contend with availability, and right now, it seems really hard to get your hands on a Civic Si without a significant dealer markup. The Integra is also being marked up at some locations, for sure, but some dealerships do seem to be honoring MSRP, and especially for folks who reserved the car prior to release and put down a deposit. An $8K difference is nothing to sneeze at... but when it's more like a $3-4K difference? Suddenly, the Acura might start to feel like more of a bargain for what you get.
Regarding the powertrain being underpowered and folks wondering why the car didn't come with the 2.0T out of the gate... I am looking forward to the Civic Type R release, and I'm curious about whether a comparable Integra Type-S will be far behind. I can't imagine it would be inexpensive, but it may be what folks are clamoring for, even if it's never going to be the 3-door liftback coupe of yesteryear.
Probably best take out there that’s where I’m at pretty much
Yes, THIS!
This is honestly the only comment I've seen that has a realistic viewpoint on whether the car is worth the price difference. Too many are just complaining and claiming 8k difference when in reality it's closer to 2-3k. I've seen a couple SI's for 36k and not to mention actually finding one is very difficult at the moment.
I actually have an Integra reserved but the more videos that have been coming out, the more I'm having second doubts and will probably end up cancelling. It's getting pretty hard to justify spending (taxes included) 42k on this car.
Strikes me that using the Accord 2.0T in an Integra GSR would change some opinions. 253 HP, which leaves room for a Type R and is a nice upgrade over the base car/Si.
The 2.0T in the TLX makes 272hp which would be great too. I like the idea of a GSR
I just want to clarify that the said Honda referenced at 30:40 was in fact driven across the country by me from PA to NM via I-40 with a 1,500 lb tailer behind it loaded with a motorcycle and car parts in Nov 2002, but I didn’t kill it revving it out in 3rd gear. By two years later the Accord transmission had given up 4th gear with some 280k on it. And while my brother (owner) was enroute from NM to CA through the Mojave Triangle of Car Death, it and started making a noise and consuming copious amounts of oil, but he continued driving it in 3rd gear because it wouldn’t pull in 5th and was too far for a AAA tow. We checked the compression upon his arriving at my house in LA and found zero compression in the one lean cylinder, which upon further inspection revealed a hole’d piston. It was subsequently put on Craigslist the next day and driven away by the next owner
Just dropping the kids off at the pool, great timing
Is your wife cheating on you with the pool boy as you take care of children that aren't yours?
49min runtime. That’s some 💩
I agree with the majority of this, however, some points I want to make. The Acura SUVs sell like hotcakes. The rdx was the best selling compact luxury suv and the MDX was the best selling 3 row luxury. The MDX are barely staying on the lots. The integra no doubt will be getting a type s version and inherit the type r 2.0. Only thing is the 11th gen type r is still yet to be unveiled so the integra has to wait. They used the 1.5 cause putting the 2.0T in would clash with the TLX base engine as that is also the 2.0T and it wouldn’t make sense to have the smaller cheaper car have the same base engine. The civic interior isn’t nicer than the integra although they are very very similar and every switch is identical. You just get a lot more luxury features (hud, much better sound system, fully digital gauges, heated seats, dual zone climate, power seats with lumbar, memory seats, adaptive dampers, wireless charger and a couple more stuff) for that 8k plus the badge and hatchback and depending on who you are talking to, it’s worth it or not.
I don’t think they mean sales numbers but the Actual Brand clout and Recognition. There was a point where people talked about Acura more than Audis and associated them with BMWs and Mercedes. Back then they were seen as a cooler Lexus completely different to Acura of today.
Damn Jason, man you hit every gear on Acura’s historic triumph and debacle.. picture perfect
I made a playlist with all the episodes and it’s it’s 52 hours and 12 minutes. You guys have spent over a full work week rambling about cars and I care more about this collection of work than any of the other creators I follow.
I can’t wait to hear what you have to say about the Elantra N, Jason.
Jason's remark about how most modern turbo engines are un-blip-able hit me hard as someone who owns a GR Yaris after owning a GT86 manual. Thankfully the auto rev match on the Yaris works like magic but I still miss heel and toing.
I hope Jason reads this comment. I'm so glad you're saying what other outlets have just so clearly forgotten or not realizing.
Honda (especially Acura) are just cashing in on their old reputations and history to their gullible fanbase. They always have this "this is what you want" attitude rather than actually competing to be the best option on the market.
They pretty much half-ass the Integra in America by calling it the RSX and not bringing the TypeR. They continue to not bring any Type R's of any sort to America, and just shrug off all American demand telling us "you wouldn't buy it anyway"
Then they DO bring the recent Civic Type R, hyping it up off the reputation of all the old ones and completely ignoring the fact that they've ignored the American market for years, and then they treat it as a stupid fake limited production model that drives up prices even more and are PROUD of it. There was nothing limited production about the TypeR. The numbered production badges were just a marketing gimmick. And the gullible Honda fanboys ate it up and fed Honda's ego that they can do no wrong.
The more digging you do, the worse it gets across their lineup or over the past decade. Oil dilution of those 1.5L turbo engines. The past 20 yrs of making unreliable automatic transmissions (especially in Acura's, just google it - honda ATs are not regarded as reliable as you think). Manual transmissions grinding. Recent manual models not having that great of a manual shifter. Shoddy clear coat fading. The NSX as a whole. Shoddy construction with tons of rattles on brand new cars. Marketing that they're "saving the manuals" but never actually MAKING any manual production numbers for people to actually buy. Telling consumers that no-volume knob is better for years (good lord are we all just going to forget that? They kept on that for years before admitting that they DON'T know better than what consumers want)
Yet they continue to charge a premium over competing models just for the Honda brand name. Because they market this conception that they are the best, most premium option and you should want them because they're just SO well engineered and reliable. They don't. Toyota does. Honda has consistently been run by accountants, constantly squeezing in cheaper production while charging more year over year, while marketing to people the reputation that they only earned in the 90's and early 2000's.
They changed Integra to RSX because the whole Acura lineup were moving to 3-letter models, which made sense. Except their ILX to replace the RSX has been a flop every single time and consumers could tell - the ILX has been such a forgettable product for consumers that people have forgotten about it, and so they decide to get free marketing buzz by calling it the Integra again instead of another ILX. This car is way more in line with what a new ILX would be, not an Integra. Their intentional downmarket of features on the Civic Si just to say "well buy the Integra if you want more" is so disrespectful to the idea of fighting for the consumer and more "we know what's better for you" that Honda has done for years. Calling this the Integra is just admitting that the ILX has been a long time failure, yet fanboys are buying into the "the Integra is back" marketing nonsense.
And then they want to charge 36k+ for the manual? For the little 1.5L T? This should have the 2.0T. But Honda fanboys will still buy into this with this engine, just justifying Honda to pull another "TypeR" treatment when they make the TypeS: treating it like it's made on the moon and you would be lucky to buy one at whatever price they pick, when it's honestly what it should have come with.
A competitive brand/model should be enticing with what you get for your dollar. Hyundai and Kia have done a great job with that - there is so much to get excited about when looking at any of their models. But Honda? They just say: "You're buying a Honda. You should know how long we've been making great cars over those Hyundai/Kia brands" while still not moving the needle at all. (hello years of mediocre Civic Si's when they are more than capable of making leaps each generation)
I love the longer episodes, I mean I can listen to jason talk all day really, but I wouldnt mind them longer
After listening to Acura's Brand Officer, Jon Ikeda on "Dinner with Racers," I thought the company was back in good hands. He genuinely loves cars, is an enthusiast, and knows what makes a compelling brand. I wonder if Acura needs to listen to and promote more Ikedas before it's too late...unless they're just treading water until Acura is Honda's luxury EV brand
Love that these guys put the effort in to put pictures in.
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode especially since I'm a Honda fan....I also like the length... perfect. I now understand why Acura has had so many misses over the years. The gentleman doing most of the talking was very passionate about the brand which I appreciate. Keep up the great work thanks.👍🏾🔰🏎️
It's good news from Jason. Nice to hear his opinion on this car.
It was cool to hear because i had the exact same opinion as him. The Honda subreddit ripped me apart for shitting on the Intregra for being an unwarranted $8k more than the Civic SI. Good to see Jason agrees. In a vacuum, I really like the Integra, but it should have been cheaper or just the Civic SI hatchback everyone wanted.
Jason would make a good guest on Dynamic banter, his adoration of sound effects is impressive
As the owner of many RSX and a TSX
Pretty much all Acuras are fantastic as a used proposition but pretty average as a new purchase.
2+ hour podcasts are significantly better than short podcasts
A new 230i parked next to my 06 E90 330i, and they were pretty much identical in dimensions. I then checked and they’re within an inch of each other when it comes to wheelbase and overall length, with the E90 having shorter front and rear overhangs. I love the E90 for that reason. It’s a very functional, tiny (by modern standards) sedan.
Slight hint at an upcoming Honda centric Revalations video? If so I'm excited.
The Honda bolts-you-expect-rusted-stuck really resonated with me. Had the same thing with my Fiat Coupe here in Sweden (lots of road salt..) where a Volvo would have stuck bolts everywhere, my Fiat bolts just came off no problem, just a pleasure (except that big 5-cyl was a tight fit…)
It is still true that the base models in the Integra generations were more different from the Civic than the current model appears to be.
I cross-shopped a 4-door 1994 Integra LS with the then-current Civic (no Si available then). The Civic had a slightly soggy SOHC 1.7 liter engine, McPherson struts, rear drums and kind of crummy front seats. To get ABS, you had to order an EX, which was a whopping $1,200 less than the LS version of the Integra (equivalent to $2,000 - $2,500 if you use today's price base). The other things you got for your money were a revvy DOHC 1.8 liter engine (even if you didn't get the 8K redline version), wishbone front suspension, better tires, rear disc brakes, a better transmission linkage, and much more supportive front seats. Spending the $1,200 was an easy decision.
The next generation, the RSX, lost some of that distinctiveness, but the S was still an option the Civic didn't offer. But Honda is apparently lost now,
A 94 civic was a 1.5 sohc with double wishbone. McPherson struts didn't come until the 7th gen 01
My family had a variety of 80's and 90's Accords. I ended up buying a 90 Accord EX coupe in Hampshire Green and 93 Accord EX coupe with a 5 speed in babyshit brown or Rosewood Brown Metallic as Honda refers to it. The later might be the best car I've ever owned. The only item that needed replaced in the 7 years I owned it, aside from normal maintenance items, was a fan temp switch.
If Honda/Acura made more rear wheel drive offerings I’d buy one in a heartbeat. It’s one of the few reasons I’m a Lexus/BMW fan.
Absolutely. For some reason Honda and Acura have always had an aversion to RWD.
The thing that makes me laugh so much when he claps is that the very first time I ever saw him clap I thought he was trying to kill a fly or a bug that was in his face. 😅😅
The last SaaB 9 5 (4x4) is the one of the best looking cars ever.
It's Kool to hear Jason say my favorite Accord was beautiful... 🥲
I obviously haven't been able to get my hands on the Integra or Si, but from everything I've seen from other reviews, and some of my own research. The Integra interior does appear to be nicer but the Si's is nice. I've heard from other reviews that the Si does have more rev hang than the Acura. Also when searching in my area the markups on the civics make these cars almost the same price at the moment.
I was in the same situation and thought if I’m going to pay that much over MSRP then I might as well get the Integra, however, apparently the greed has worked it’s way up to the “luxury” brand too because every Acura dealership either A.) has no cars available B.) they are marked up several thousand dollars with accessories C.) they have no additional accessories or equipment but dealers just want $5k over MSRP for them which now makes them $40k + for a 200HP car, so in theory you’re correct (if you can find one at MSRP)
Also, just my opinion but in person I think the Civic Si is a far better looking and more attractive car. When I actually saw the Integra in person it looks severely under tired and slab sided. It really has odd proportions almost like an old Saab 900 hatchback from the 1980’s mixed with some Honda Accord CrossTour
You're right. The DC2 Integra does look sleeker than the DC5 Integra/RSX. Acura lowered the RSX 1 inch for the 05-06 models and it helped. Also, the factory A-spec kit replaced the stock springs for lowered ones. I replaced my stock suspension with 1' 1/2 in. lower coil-overs and added aftermarket wheels and began receiving monthly complements for it's looks from strangers.
That Phillips article about the Cadillac is the funniest automotive piece ever written
Your Acura Vigor? The 5cyl motor wasn't transverse - it was longitudinal, with the gearbox behind, but still fwd. Weight distrib was better that way, but this design tangent was triggered by more complex factors, including tax legislation in different countries.
The second gen of Legend benefitted greatly from this distinctive drivetrain layout too. 🙂
Jason, the strategy of the low volume seller like the CVT - made really just to fish some unaware first time pseudo -luxo buyer - is to lessen the impact on margins of the extra cost on the overall mix, the Addition of options by the customer will aid as well. The high volume /high margin - will be the manual (85% of sales) - which is loaded by force ;).
I love how Jason can imitate all the sounds of cars, and some whiioop water drop sounds of course :)
18:57 they're not doing it to save money, no back pocket on the driver side is for safety, the back cushion is soft so when you reach into the back pocket without telling the driver, you can accidentally poke the driver or surprise him, its not a problem in other acuras because the back of the seats is made from hard plastic, not just to save money but as a safety feature, honda is removing it from all their updated cars
this is somehow even more stupid
Random thought as soon as I started watching - As a cyclist I applaud Derek's shirt.
Will the trend to make car badges larger, at some point raise the drag coefficient of cars?
Depends on whose badge it is
Our JDM CB7 Accord (I'm from Bangladesh, right hand drive market) was just...magic. Just pure, simple, beautiful, rock solid magic. 1.8 carb, purred everywhere and was so bulletproof that I remember my brother never having to pop the hood in more than 5 years of ownership for anything other than basic maintenance. The glasshouse interior (cloth seats, ridiculously comfortable and fantastic visibility) also had that trick HVAC control panel that you had to press in and it would swing out. Not to mention...an OEM CD player!
Would have a much more modern Civic later on (ES gen) and friends and family had newer generation Accords and Civics and CRVs and Jazzes (Fit for you guys) but somehow Hondas after the turn of the century never really lived up to the ethos of the 90s Hondas/Acuras. I blame safety regs and ever ballooning sizes of people/families. Priorities were never the same after 1998, it feels like.
I have never worked on a honda or accura. I wish I would have some honda experience to go on.
I am driving my first toyota that i purchased used 9 months ago.. so far I really like the toyota experience.
Acura/Honda could have done one of three things with the integra:
1. Developed the ILX dct for it, then it could have been the luxury dual clutch civic.
2. Made it a coupe body.
3. Gotten rid of the civic si and made the suspension available as a sport package with the standard civic engines and you get the jump to 200hp with the Integra.
They did none of those things, so there is little reason to buy the manual Integra.
Only option two is a good idea. Getting rid of the civic SI or giving the Integra a dual clutch would be the exact opposite of what enthusiasts want.
Imo the best solution would have been to offer the manual and k24 in the base trim then make a GSR esk trim with the L15 from the si maybe tuned Sligh to make a little more power vs the si. As much as I'd have liked a coupe they just don't sell particularly well anymore. With the bean counters in charge it's a very difficult financial pill to swallow for them as they'd have to design a new chasis from the ground up.
@@thegirthquake8574
Coupe would make the least sense, imo as you need a whole new body shell with crash testing. As far as the DCT, that would have been my first choice actually. As an enthusiast with a wife that does not drive stick and kid in need of a baby seat, the integra was on the short list in a couple of years. Leaning towards the GTI as of now since the wife can borrow it if I need the family wagon to haul stuff. May check out the civic sport hatch as well, but the cvt seems boring.
@@sanman1188 They had a civic coupe last year. All they'd have to do is adapt the body to that and boom, crash tested Teggy coupe
I had a 94 legend first vehicle,
At 16 years old,
Great car
90s Honda brilliance? Yes! The 2nd generation Legend was not just gorgeous, but _car of the year_ contender, in many ways. Amazing proportions, packaging, refinement, suspension, etc.
Ditto for the 5th generation of Accord. There's only a couple of Accord series that were a bit pale or under-developed, but the 5th gen is a true gem - for much of the same reasons as above. It had a fraught but ultimately successful development pathway, arriving about 3 yrs after the second Legend.
I want to see Jason with the Elantra N :)
One CAN fix a Z3 and BMW Did: It’s called the E85 Z4. And with the fantastic E86 coupe (a car that the Cayman drivers in my rear view mirror at the track tell me lifts it’s inside front wheel off the ground in hard corners) you have a car that was E46 sedan based but had a significant suspension redesign to meet the performance goals. Ok, it was expensive, but really good, as 3.0Si (N52) or as a real M (S54). And it’s great looking from any Bangle, I mean angle. Revisit and try it and you might be Warming up to it!
I had a 2003 CL Type S Manual and I absolutely loved that car but when I got mine it was already high mileage and used up by the first owner. I would love to have a low mile nice one someday the the manuals are very rare.
Hmm I with the compelling argument. I do think that they specifically threw the manual on the higher spec'd one due to what they did with the ILX. Almost $40k OTD is a bit much gussied up Si. But I do feel you're getting some substance for that amount. Even if it is not in all the right places. I think there definitely is a middle ground that can be exploited with either a higher trimmed Si or lower trimmed Integra with a manual. I've personally owned two Si's and they never seem to shake their boy racer image, no matter how mature they look. Test drove the Integra, and came to a similar conclusion about the modes. They are nowhere near as dramatic as in the Civic Type R. I didn't see the point of the adaptive system other than adding cost. I wasn't driving at the limit but it rotates well and the inputs are superb, sans the EPAS. But to me, it feels natural. I am waiting for an order to open up again so I can purchase one. I'm not sure if there are thousands of people like me, but I would assume there are a few. My biggest gripe other than the dampers is that you can't get the red interior with the blue exterior and no homelink. And no rear wiper. But I can forgive them for that one.
Sorry, long text ahead
Anyone remember back when this car was being teased? Magazines started putting up coupe renders of the Integra. Even Acura themselves, when they announced the Integra's return in a drone show, made a teaser silhouette that actually looked like a coupe and kept coy about whether it would've been a coupe until the reveal. Honestly, I feel like Honda should've brought the Integra back alongside the 10th-gen Civic Coupe, and it might've been a really nice Japanese TT alternative.
Going off on a little tangent, but to Jason and Derek, what are your thoughts on the recent announcement that Hyundai is discontinuing the Veloster N, in favour of the Elantra and Kona N's?
In my opinion, the VN holds the "coupe" position that people were expecting the new Integra to take comparative to the Civic; a smaller version of the i30 5-door and Elantra sedan with (1 lol) coupe door. Plus, I hear that people who've taken the VN and EN on track find that the VN does drive fairly differently (EN's turbo upgrade aside) due to its smaller size/wheelbase. However, I mostly get these from rough comment translations from Korean videos or anecdotes from forums. So I'm looking forward to hearing Cammisa's driving experience with the Elantra N.
With that in mind, IMO, if the Integra were a sports coupe that was closer in size and/or wheelbase to the RSX or the 9th-gen Si coupe, instead of a TSX-sized sedan, that would've been neat. Make a lighter and cheaper Honda rebadge, maybe with a CR in the name, and price it against the 86/BRZ. Keep the Si drivetrain for the base, that's fine. Just make it an actual compact-classed car that's lighter than the now mid-sized Civic.
Buuuuut I know why it isn't a coupe and such. I like how the Integra looks as such and am looking forward to the Type-S, but the manual A-Spec price is weird.
How do you get that desk that converts to a hovercraft?
Sounds exactly like them vdubs (gti, R) undercutting their four circle brethren (s3, rs3) with only difference being Ingolstadt execs put kibosh on wolfsburg using the top shelf toys (2.5tfsi) aka VAG does a better job keeping up appearances with their premium brand compared to Honda.
Wow I was not expecting this take about this car
I have been itching to replace my '09 RX-8 for a few years now, but I honestly doubt there is a new car that would be as fun. I might spend that new-car money getting the paint totally redone and figure out some way to upgrade the infotainment.
Totally agree like people grow up and old with their specific car or something I don’t understand why they keep making certain cars bigger instead of just kicking you up a size. 2 series is a decent example. 1 series I could sit behind myself at 6’0”. Then when the 2 came out almost same length but made it shorter and wider. My head hits the ceiling in the back seat now. I don’t normally carry people so whatever, I have the m235i live in NYC and love that it’s narrower than a M2 or 3 series. Then they go and make the new 2 longer and wider totally negating the benefit of the narrower body. If I wanted a wide car I would have bought an M2 🤷🏻♂️
I think they got their generations mixed up when talking about liking the second generation integra? All the inserts were of the DC2 which was the third generation.
Bring back the Prelude! I’ve had 7 (2 currently still) and I want another one.
Compete with the GR86 and the Miata. Get your rep back Honda!
"What's that term when You work at night?"
"Graveyard?"
😂what????!!!!🤣
I convinced my dad to buy a new DC2 ITR new when I was 15 and grew up autocrossing it with him on weekends. I would have been an easy sell if this thing was anything but what it has become. I actually like the crosstour too lol.
You guys NEED to drive an Integra R!
In Australia the Rsx was badged integra, but was never a teggi
There are actually quite a few differences between the Acura and the SI. In the Acura you can get full digital instrument cluster which you cannot get in the SI. you can get heated seats not available in the SI and the better sound system. You can also get power seats and lower lumbar support which you cannot get in the SI. There’s a option to have a heated steering wheel which you cannot get in the SI and of course the hatchback which you cannot get in the SI. The Acura also has adaptive suspension which the SI doesn’t have this year. So I think you get a lot for the $7000 difference with the Acura.
Aaaand the good streak of being consistent is broken.
They just said they will try ;-)
@@maxmustermann9669 I've seen they're gonna be live on Radwood this Saturday so I take it all back.
My favorite written car review has to be the Car and Driver 2011 Smart FourTwo ED. I recommend everyone read it.
Saw the car in person yesterday after I made a service appt for my 3rd gen. It definitely looks much better in person. I wouldn't call it beautiful, but it's a handsome design. I love the fact that it offers a hatch and the interior looks better vs the civic imo. I wouldn't pay $37k for 200hp unless it was a vtec screamer. Imo they should have offered the base with a stick or give it the k24 from the ILX. I've never cared for the 1.5t. It's a dull engine and lacks character. If they bring out a type s give it the k20 out of the FK8 with SHAWD then I'd be interested. As it sits now I'm probably going with an FK8 or GR Corolla.
Love the shirt Celeste Green so guess he rides unpowered bikes too.
While you guys are looking for an Integra Type R, you should try to find an AE111 BZ-R (1995-2000 Corolla coupe, final successor), it was Toyota's answer to the Civics and Integras, 4AGE Blacktop 1.6l, 4cylinder, 5valves per cylinder, with factory Itbs, a limited-slip and a 6 speed. They also came with Toyota's Super Strut suspension which I've heard varying things about, some say it's amazing, and others say it's mostly useless... Either way, I would love to hear what you guys think about that, especially in comparison to the Integra Type R...
Toyotas answer to the Inte R was the Celica TRD Sports M. And to the Civic R the Corolla G6R.
@@MrHanswurst47 I mean the Celica Sports M wasn’t even out until 1999, and prior to that the Celica had been a competitor with Subaru and Mitsubishi more than Honda/Acura with the Celica GT4 actually predating both Subaru and Mitsubishi. I would agree with you that the Celica probably competed with a Type R but I would say that it was more the DC5 that it competed with (might be wrong with that I need to check the years that the DC5 was sold. Either way I’ll totally admit that I shouldn’t have made that statement as though it was a fact as it’s more of a generalization of the situation than anything else, depending on the context or perspective it could be right or wrong and I should have taken that into account…
@Griffin S ok I get your point. I was just referring to the marketing strategy. For the Sports M.
I usually trust Jason, but is the rev hang really fully gone? Like 2016 mx-5 gone? Every other new 6spd car makes me think EPA requires rev hang and the mx-5 just made a deal with the devil.
Just great
The mdx is everywhere. Rdx is also pretty common. The only car in the lineup I rarely see is the rlx.
I would love an Si, but I need an auto and can’t do CVT (need auto for family vehicle, see your Z icon episode). That’s why I have an Elantra N-line. 200hp, turbo, multi-link rear end, and a 7spd dual clutch. I wish there was a dual clutch option from Honda.
And now that I think about it, Honda has Dual Clutch trans in almost every other type of vehicle they make. This includes the Gold Wing and Africa Twin motorcycles, their ATV and SXS line up also has them. They can’t put one in a car?
Yeah, my friend has a last gen SI lease (cheap asf too), went with him to check out the new SI this past weekend. Fuck the Integra, the SI is the same car.
Someone needs to make a Hyphen awkwardly clapping compilation a thing
when Honda took away their front and rear wishbone suspension... it was a sad day
@23:30 Talking about Acura being silly with spec and pricing.
In Australia where there is only Honda (Acura models are still sold, but all badged as Honda's) they have removed the base spec Civic for 2022 so that you must buy a top spec model (the single spec offered). In effect they increased the entry price from 39,600 to 47,200 AUD.
Seems to suggest Honda only have enthusiasts left and cannot sell to a wider market.
RSX is basically just a miniaturized Accord coupe, when it comes to the design language and cues
I parked next to one, and was pretty sure the doors were interchangeable the same way RSX trunk can fit on an Integra
RSX is way more similar to a Civic mechanically
@@f181234 100%, the Accord is siblings with the TL mechanically
I was talking about overall curves and shapes of the car/headlights etc.
In non North American markets the Inspire(Accord) has more “Acura” styled components than what we see in the US(power mirrors and interior luxury)
48:25 Whait, is Hagerty saying that this show is supposed to be in the 30 min length?! BIG NO!!!
The Civic interior is a cool new design. The Integra interior is a cut up version of the Civic interior to look different.
I don’t know what this says about me but I was asking about the Integra race car Hyphen drove getting his racing license when he said he had no FWD experience. 😂😂😂
I dont think people realize how special Honda is.
ACURA - YOU ARE ALWAYS JUDGED BY YOUR LEGEND, NOT BY YOUR VIGOR. THIS RINGS SO TRUE - why are they going to REINTRODUCE a nameplate to a vehicle they need to actively remind everyone ONCE DID EXIST IN FOUR DOORS. Isn't this MARKETING 101? This would be like re-introducing the RX-7 WITHOUT A ROTORY ENGINE, or re-introducing SMOKING IN PUBLIC PLACES, WITHOUT RISKING CANCER...
My issue with the Integra is mostly centered around the fact that it looks like every other Acura sedan. If they wanted it to stoke enthusiasts, make it look special! It doesn’t have to have the exact same look of a ILX or whatever. Ki understood this pretty well with the Stinger, granted at a different price point. The current civic is an attractive car that looks like a Honda, but doesn’t look exactly like another Honda (though dangerously similar to the Accord)
While the 10th gen Civic is a very.. uh... loud design, the 11th while reserved and unassuming is way too far the other direction and is boring. All I wanted was a Civic Si hatch (the fun vs practicality thing you were talking about), and Honda gave us the Integra. In the 10th gen (which we wound up getting) the only option was a Sport Touring Hatch (which is excellent) or the Type R dealers were wanting 70k for. I wanted the Civic Touring, but as a hatch and manual and with memory seats and the Integra is perfect in that. The seats in the Integra are also way better than anything I've sat in recently in the same price range. If you compare the Integra to the civic touring (which it is closer to in spec, $30,500) the difference is you get 20hp and the lsd (and other assundries). It is a "Civic Sport Touring Hatchback" Si, not a Si hatch, and the difference is $5k with the "better engine" and suspension and interior etc.
I still do think that the base Integra should have the 2L from the TLX. If/when they do a Type S Integra it'll be very hard to pass up.
Also the Elantra is one of the ugliest modern cars with what looks like a leg cramp for door 'styling'.
I have thoughts on Acura as a brand and the new Integra.
First my background with Honda. I have owned 4 gen 6 Accords all manual 2 were coupes and 2 were sedans. I owned a 92 Civic manual, 99 Civic manual, 01 Civic manual, 06 Civic manual, 09 Civic Si manual, 17 hatchback CVT, 12 odyssey, and 08 CR-V. Now I've driven many other Honda and Acura products, including the integra type r, Civic Type R, Integra GSR, RSX type s, tl manual, tsx manual, 07 rdx, and so many more. The car on my wall in my office is a gen 1 NSX in red. So one could say I am a Honda fan.
However the Si lost power, has lost adaptive dampers, lost heated seats and gained over $2,500 in cost using the same chassis and engine as the previous gen SI? Then you have to spend Civic Type R money to get a manual transmission Integra with the same 200hp in the Si! Now I ask you why not just buy the type r? It's better in every regard and honestly the only true drivers car in Honda or Acura lineup.
Reviews seem to think that the new civic is better even with less power - that the engine has been made more flexible and pleasant to deal with. Isn't it only like 5-10hp?
@@christopherjohnston6343 Yeah and it dynos with more power than before. However it does not excuse the price bump while losing so many features like adaptive dampers, heated seats and charging over 2grand more than the last gen. Makes me wonder if the Si is worth it, maybe skip it and just get the type r.
It's a new platform, and it has more welds and better weight distribution than before, and look at a civic si vs gti comparison on a back road, its more fun that that while still being cheaper. The adaptive dampers on the si sucked anyway, the suspension tuning on the new one is really good, its more premium overall and the bose sound system is the best in its class, the only major thing is lack of heated seats and road noise, this still has a place tho, this is like finally the type r lite everyone wanted and not civic+ or civic pro like the previous gens, the previous gen looked cool but that was it, they did handle any better than a regular civic but This, I like to rev this alot on canyon roads, the steering is actually precise and feels like type r but type r revs alot higher, has real engine noise and is hatchback with 25 cubic feet cargo and also alot more expensive than this about 9k, so it still has its place, for those people who enjoy old cars but dont want to pay for a type r, and this is gonna get much better gas mileage
@@shivamarya5225 it's not a new platform, same as the 10th gen civic. Still no reason to remove things that are expensive and then put in cheaper things like a fixed suspension, no heated seats and then charge over 2 grand more for giving you less.
@@CruiseControl1 it's a new platform, read the articles about the 2022 civic, they specifically mention it's built on a new platform and even if it's not, it feels alot more rigid than before
I've owned my 97 5th gen honda prelude since 2000. For many years my buddy always wonder why it was badge as a honda instead of an acura. Its not performance oriented like the DC2 ITR but it's trimmed out for luxury touring...
I think once Jason drives the SI, he'll appreciate the Integra more.
Actually really interesting that the Integra has no rev hang since the earlier 1.5 version of the last gen civic was notorious for rev hang. Is a 36k integra manual work the price difference over a 28.5k civic si? Is the civic si good value for 28.5k now, it's like 2.5k more than the outgoing car with less content (adaptive dampers and heated seats)
Yeah, Integra could've had the 2.0t with maybe similar tune to the 2.0t accord. With the LSD it could probably handle 250+ hp. They'll probably put that in a type S, but then it'll be too expensive. They could've had the base Integra with a detuned engine around 230-240ish hp and then put the engine similar to the type R in the type S.
The 2.0T is very likely in the cards but it'll probably be too expensive then for what it is, like low to mid 40s
Isnt Acura just leaving more room for Type S or R version of the integra? But agreed why the SI is as goof as the mid/high level Integra non TypeS/R
Here in Mexico (where Infiniti is practically dead) we will only have the CVT version of the Integra, so... yeah dark times for Acura
The Acura has a faster ratio electric steering rack tge interior is way more upscale. Quiter suv is not good?
Sounds like ad put together like one from the movie "Crazy People" Integra, its not ugly, its decent looking, honest.
Can anyone get over the looks....they need to make all of their cars just more visually appealing. The consumer probably does not want to be asked to aspire to a boring car.
I want a small rwd sports sedan that starts around $29k...aka a Gr86 sedan or hatch would be awesome. Even Chevy could've done something with the Camaro platform
Hell the AE86 (which I'm surprised didn't make an appearance in the ICONS episode on the GR86) had a coupe and a hatch and there's absolutely no reason why the new one wasn't designed as a hatch. 944 was the perfect sporty hatch! If that was the real difference between Miata and GR86 it'd be that all day but since it isn't...Miata.
Why make the coupe less practical when it shouldn't be?
@@Petrospect yeah I'd love a miata as my second car. Tbf when I say hatch I'm thinking of a four door hatch like the Civic 😬 if it's to be your only car and want some practicality it's hard to beat that form
You're not getting that in this day and age lol
@@Trussme96 Camaro starts at $25k I think a sedan should be possible for around or less than $30k. Same goes for gr86
So basically you would want a Nissan/toyota version of the q50/IS
I think the reason why the price is way different from the Si to the manaul integra is because of all of the luxury features that older adults would rather have in a car are provided in the integra and missing from the SI. Yeah, they have the same engine but Honda wouldn't sell any SI's if the base integra was only 3 grand more and came with dual climate control, heated seats, etc. Sttuff the civic doesn't have. Even though both cars are the same performance wise, the integra looks better, has way more luxury features, and more premium interior then the SI. Whoever said SI interior is better missed a lot of the more premium details the integra provides over the SI. But at a first quick glance the look very similar. I think with what you get the price difference is justified. If i didn't care about luxury features and wanted a more sufisticated vehicle then i would agree that acura messed up. A person with less of a budget would view this as a fail because both cars drive the same. A person with a higher budget would view it as a win because its based off a great modern car (the SI) however you get a ton of luxury features that justifies the price difference. If acura drops a type s, it would be the best ALL AROUND car in it's class. By the way i don't own the SI or the Integra. I just drove both and I see the value of each. Overall i enjoyed the video.
35:20 - WTAF was Honda thinking, when it decided to glue Honda _and_ Acura badges to an Isuzu Trooper?!?
In Straya, our Holden arm of the GM 🐙 called it Jackaroo.
The Trooper was also sold as a Chevrolet, which makes sense - but makes the clash with Acura even more inconceivably stupid.
This Isuzu was a generally considered to be an able and competitive off-road 4WD. That it was badge engineered to be a Subaru and a Ssangyong is just *weird* . Both of those companies are distinctly weird* - but in their own different forms of weirdness, beyond the Acura decisions of 25 yrs ago. 🤦🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
(* 🤯 Subaru Saabs? SsangYong Mercs?)
Why don't you all try to get John Phillips on the show???
I believe honda wont make civic coupes anymore so im guessing there might be another integra model later on.