Sad that the major music labels still are so brutally money hungry that they do things like this. It's one of their last dire attempts to gather as much money as possible so that they won't go under - Fact is however that Major labels are dying as more and more artists/music producers now (who haven't signed away their life to contracts) are now turning to independent music distribution tools, through which they earn all the money whilst keeping the rights. Simultaneously more and more of the modern creatives cherish the potential in Attention over money. Artists like myself for example who allow our music to be used for free if credit is given and who don't include our music into copyright systems.
Record labels are partnered with Music streaming companies. Streaming revenue is going through the roof as the vocalists get pennies on the dollar. Spotify revenue was up by 30% from a year before. Revenue in 2019 was $7.5 Billion. To put the current earnings, Billie Eilish being the most trending vocalists in 2019 made less in 5 years than Mariah Carey did in one for sales. The record labels are being consolidated into partnerships with music streaming companies. Spotify purchased 16 companies, out of 16, 5 copyright related detection across all platforms. Which means they fully expect to generate billions from copyright disputes. Leading into the current Twitch situation.
@@norcalbowhunter3264 they overestimate twitch. They will kneel and make the hard choices if need be. Then people will really start thinking about just how secure they are
28:08 This was what I've been thinking since the start. Twitch wants to save storage space so they're deliberately handling this negligently, and gave the only option to creators being that they have to delete all their content. Because you're right, they COULD have made a 'hide' function to make VoDs unlisted. My first thought when the only option was to delete content was that Twitch just wanted to save money on storage. Unbelievable. Obviously the threats of DMCA takedowns and 'not operating under Safe Harbor' are what prompted this situation in the first place. I don't think someone at Twitch sat around thinking up ways to save money on storage/free up space and this is what they thought of, but this situation is literally either "we were not prepared for this, sorry but this is the safest option we have right now", or "This requires the least amount of work from us, and will benefit us if you delete all your stuff, thanks"
Going after the big streamers would be a “test my gangsta” move. It would be something that would basically set the rules. It would be idiotic for the industry to not go after them first.
@@lildirtdick777 you didn't read the comment right. he literally said it would be stupid for them to not go after them. like you said its buisness 101.
It's the same thing you would do if you go to a new school or start a new job. You find whoever is at the top of the chain and you attack them. Everyone else will fall in line.
@@Steve-xo4nb yeah when you get a new job just start being hostile to everybody, really asserts dominance, big alpha play, I'd be surprised if after 5 times verbally assaulting your boss you aren't CEO of the whole damn business.
@@thatrespectablehuman1884 lmao dude you really don't understand how it works. Usually there is the 1 tough guy already established... He will try and fuck you around... If you shut him the fuck down. No one gonna mess with you... You don't go causing shit... That's just being stupid... I know how this works dude.
The idea that the music industry suing Napster or other content sharing platform shows that the industry is savage and is less of a breach than content creators playing music on stream is a horrendous take. These platforms were a plight on the music industry in the early 2000s where music streaming was not a thing and it directly impacted single and album sales. Creators playing songs may lead to a slew of individual lawsuits (i doubt) but the argument that they are more a threat to the music industry than piratebay, limewire, or napster is an argument in bad faith/just bad.
Made RUclips videos before the times of Copyright and it took years for them to develop the DMCA system.. Twitch has an uphill battle here.. I just hope they don’t get nuked along the way
@Zerico Gaming They might probably try to sell it to Facebook, since Facebook has more use in developing a copyright system. Better then simply shutting it down at least. Amazon surely won't invest billons into creating something like that when Twitch overall doesn't make money. But what stands is, that the streamers will simply move on to another plattform if that happens. It's not a tradegy, it's normal on a neutral market.
@cubid Twitch's DMCA policy managed to target/affect the guitarist from Dragonforce playing his own music. Nobody is safe or gets grace when the music industry wants to enforce copyright; they're willing to eat their own.
For those wondering like me, Devin meant ACR: "Automatic content recognition (ACR) is an identification technology to recognize content played on a media device or present in a media file."
@David Freer just shows how clueless you are tbh, livestreaming is a completely different license then just musik streaming. A much more expensive one at that, in no way will amazon or twitch pay for that.
@@Olsenator neither amazon music or spotify provide licenses "to stream", you can just use them for DMCA-safe stuff. If you want to stream Kanye you're going to have to pay a fat check to Kanye, that's where the danger is.
Radio channels have license to broadcast music to thousands of people. Why not make a tier of Amazon/Spotify music, more expensive than regular subscription (by how much IDK), that permits them to broadcast music, in similar terms that radio channels have that license, and have part (if not most) the money from these subscriptions go to the music industry?
I think a lot of it is generational. They grew up just downloading music, and playing it and putting it into videos and whatever. Most people don't even know that its been illegal this whole time, since the Kazaa days!
@@ajhandsome01 kinda of similar tho. They went after them claiming copyright and stuff like that. "You're making money uploading clips that you didn't own etc." It's like that B rate villain getting destroyed by the main one at the end of a game and if they wanna buy into that fight godspeed to them.
remember when streamers saw this happen with youtube and most of the reactions were making jokes and memes the laws are old and bad and the music industry has abused this for years but I don't feel empathy for most of these streamers even the ones I like. most act like irresponsible kids unprofessional fking divas that think they have privileges. their argument that they all do about they are helping companies doing free advertising is the perfect example of this
I know Twitch has failed it's creators but let's not forget that by the definition of the law these same creators are "stealing" (using copyrighted material in their own "craft" to enhance it) live (and now stored) in front of thousand of people and up until now almost nobody has done anything against them and when they now have to delete their legacy that is full of legal violations I ask my self "Why should we feel bad for them". I know this take is an unpopular one but it's pretty deeming when you look at it from a legal perspective. Maybe the law should chance, but change the law before you break it or else the law has no meaning to it.
Glad you point out how the antiquated DMCA law was fought against and lost by youtube. This law needs major adjustments for individual creators because if a human watched a stream they would realize the content producing any value/income is NOT the music.
Have you considered Harris Heller's idea for solving this issue? If you make creators pay for a broadcaster license for spotify, apple music, etc. and find a way to track how many viewers are present when a song is played, you can count each viewer as a fraction of a play since the music isn't the main focus of the stream.
Anyone can purchase broadcasting licenses for top 40 songs or even a whole catalogue of songs from their choice of record label. Thing is that it is not cheap. Right now, the only cheap option and the only streamer friendly option/s are Epidemic sound $15 p/m, Monstercat $5 p/m or Jericho's record label @nightmode. If you really want to play drake on your streams you HAVE to pay $500+ p/m. The only reason I don't believe in Harris's idea is solely on the fact that it isn't profitable for recordlabels to have their songs played once on a stream and have 10,000+ viewers listen to the song that they could have earned more money from spotify if they all individually listened to the song. The music industry doesn't care if the song isn't the main portion of the stream. You can get DMCA/Lawsuits just from an outdoor stream and a car with loud music rolls by it really is that easy. Again, you can have licensing for songs, its just your budget determines the song. With no budget your best bet is to not play music at all or copyright free music. Oh and be careful when you go on youtube that says that a song is "Copyright free" chances are that it isn't. -hope that helps
@@JRCxyz Because streamers are cheap themselves, they don't want to spend if they think they don't need to. This is because in the past they got away playing copyright music for free, so they thought they don't need to pay for it.
that's what i was thinking, count the view count as a full view. you wouldn't get a partial view. but then amazon is gonna be paying for that for twitch.
I remember when they implemented their version of what youtube did; where it mutes the Music on the vods. I remember how FRUSTRATED I was trying to build playlists that were 'safe' of copyright issues AND/OR muting my vods which is audio that can never be recovered again. Here we are...6-7 years later and I find out that relying on the Twitch software to properly ID 'safe' vs 'unsafe' music WASN'T ENOUGH and now all that content I have to go back and download/archive just to avoid losing access to fond memories. There's a SEVERE lack of tools for content creators to source music and know it's SAFE. I've even had 'copyright free music' mis-labeled and end up with a muted vod and now I find out we have the OPPOSITE ISSUE as well? To even deal with this stuff as a hobby (I don't even offer a sub button on any of my channels) just to reduce my risk as an individual is frustrating. Getting a few extra bucks a month just isn't worth the risk to me; but apparently even that wasn't enough. I doubt I'll get sued being a small creator; but just the extra steps to prevent losing my content or avoid a ban is enough to seriously tilt me Never mind the fact that If I stream for 6 hours I'd like to enjoy wtf I'm listening to personally...and the hours and hours of building a playlist containing nearly 200 songs is useless now? When twitch first implemented their software I originally used an audio-cable to strip the music out of my broadcasts; but frankly...I don't like the detachment from what my audience is hearing- Twitch is a platform you want to connect to your audience never felt right thus why I built the special playlist so I could go back to streaming with music. The Music Industry needs a new business model rather than praying on people because of their own failings to get with modern times and evolve
In a way Music Artists are like reversed sponsors. While streamers usually get paid to stream games/use products. RIAA wants streamers to pay them for sponsoring streamers with music. Which makes sense, but there needs to be better tools available to handle those kinds of deals.
@@packzfn8187 so how is it also fair game to claim videos that include a miniscule portion of a song or even something that sounds like an essence of a specific song that is being claimed on.
@Watermelon No Karma doesn't always result from something bad. He thought he was fine and DMCA couldn't do anything cause he had connections but he still got striked. Karma.
Absolutely agree, these "Top Influencers" are definitely out of their league at this point. They've been on top so long they believe they're untouchable.
I don’t think that’s the case, I just think they feel as if that they should just be able to listen to the music, which I honestly agree with, it’s just the music industry being greedy as usual
@@FALLENSK8ER1995 plenty of copyright free music out there, they choose to ignore DMCA and their reactions have proven they're all above it. The ban wave will help.
I'm streaming almost every day and I'm one of the only creators that didn't get an Email of Twitch saying that I have Copyrighted Content on my Channel. And I have ~60 VODs on my channel and I'm pretty happy that I looked forward to just play Uncopyrighted music on stream. It's not hard and it's still good music. So I myself can't understand how you are able to just ignore it like it's nothing. Still, thanks for making this video. Keep going. Pog
Twitch Streamer: I'm a big deal. I'm worth, like, $50,000,000, it would be so bad for someone to try and just erase my channel. RIAA: We tried to sue LimeWire for $72 Trillion in damages a decade ago which was more money than the world collectively had. Metallica: We managed to successfully sue for $100,000 per infringement from Napster in 2000 The 5 Major Labels: We sued Napster USERS, COLLEGE STUDENTS for using the service in order to make an example of them, and scared the majority of the users off the site
Yeah if they wanted to they could probably finanically ruin any of the top streamers just by suing them for damages from the past years. Imagine them coming into court like "yeah here are 279 examples last month of copyright infringement" 👀👀
i love how much of a tool nickmercs is and his ego has gotten soo big he acts like these HUGE music corps cant even touch them.. it just goes to show how much of a platform these people have and how is has gotten to them.. im glad to see tim take action and laugh at how nick acts like hes too big to be bothered
Good video, but OCR is to recognize text and video but not audio, images. Also, in online marketing a lot don't use CPM but CPA (cost per action). I think is pretty dumb to just delete everything, maybe I'm missing something but are ALL twitch clips breaking DMCA? Or can streamers pick and choose what they delete?
It's still more of an issue of the music industry not learning. Napster/LimeWire era eventually lead to streaming music, that was a huge change, took forever. Meanwhile, currently ADpocalypse and the DCMA chaos is absolutely legacy wet brain thinking on their part, but eventually they'll figure out a solution like how to streamline music licensing or finally making that DCMA automation attach music links into content. I would kill for a "music featured in this video" tab/list so I listen to a new song out check out an artist, etc. So creators stopping all music in their content is counter productive for the moment and Facebook's solution is more of a stop gap for the time being, but again eventually they'll find a better solution.
Drake doesn't completely own his masters for albums/commercial mixtales from So Far Gone to Scorpion unlike 21 who only signed a distribution deal early on.
Devin, Google doesn't give their money to music industry. RUclips gets their money, it's creators, who doesn't get their cut of advertising money, because music rightholders receive creators money. Thanks
@Tommy Walker You missed the point. He doesn’t say that Google isn’t RUclips (because it is obviously), he says that RUclips/Google (AdSense) keep THEIR cut of the ad revenue and give the cut OF THE RUclipsR to whatever label claimed his video. Simply put: Google takes 45%, Label takes 55%, RUclipsr takes 0% of the ad revenue.
It's an important distinction, but it makes sense though, it's up to the creator to choose whether he wants to use licensed music or not, there's no reason Google should take a cut from their profit
Devin I recommend your videos all the time to my streamer friends that are starting out. Always good to know the basic ins and outs of the platform you stream on. Thank you :)
The streamers have been so subserviant to twitch, turning a blind eye to every shitty thing they do that twitch can pretty much get away with anything now.
Tbh this whole situation is a cluster fuck. Idk how twitch isn't taking control to keep their top creators. This doesn't seem like a professional company at all.
Literally every platform that music is played on plays a royalty for that privilege, radio stations, tv commercials, night clubs, pubs...etc etc etc To think some twitch streamers think they are untouchable is beyond laughable 😂 and I’m a creator... I once was a original artist, give the creators of the music their due, they deserve it
A lot of it is less the creators of the music going after people, and more the greater music industry. If you were a musician tagged on like say.. UMG.. and you give you permission out.. Well, UMG didn't. and if you're big enough they're not going to let you give it off for free.
Yea that's fucking soo true he doesn't give a shit if get's shut down it won't be affecting him at all twitch is like a dream job for these streamers streaming they don't have to do anything just do what they do and just say whatever they want while playing they talk abt stuff or even not say anything I'm not saying their bad or neither that its easy to stream its hard but its as easy as it gets for the amount of money they get thrown on
Very clearheaded analysis, you seem to know your shit. I was a bit sceptical of you when I found you, fumbling spells and raging at chat in DnD (EoA, Gerald). But when you stopped reading chat your love for playing your character was what was left so it got better there also.
Twitch failed to create an identification system to recognize what is allowed to be played or not when we stream (RUclips solved it a long time ago). Their only solution is to make us delete a lifetime worth of work and start from scratch. It is unfortunate but if you have no music, it will change the vibe of your channel. We just need to be more creative and use our words to be more captive for our content!
@@abc123number1america No one is going broke because their song was played in the background of a stream. You act like dollars are literally being ripped from the pockets of these artists. These artists have more money than a majority of us will ever make. They'll survive.
I feel like RUclips is trying to make something to counter this live before switching their UI for streams... like they can get so much momentum if they throw something to help. Like a bot that warns you as you have a DMCA-able content during live stream?
RUclips has this allready If they find copyrighted matirial in a live stream they give you the option to directly mute or cut that part when the livestream ends bevor you realiese the vod And if you would stream something completly 100% not fair use the stream gets taken down imediatly
@@Kellexyz i dont know since when i only heard the first part from a youtuber who occasional streams when he talked on stream with a second youtuber and they wondered why twitch didnt have a private option like youtube And the takedown from a livestream because of the system is something i seen two times
In researching why Amazon purchased Twitch, an article on the Verge back in August 2014 writes how Twitch was running into licenses issues as it grew in size before the Amazon purchase. The article even mentions Amazon did not have the experience to deal with copyright issues as RUclips back in 2014 when Twitch was looking for a buyer. So, it seems this issue was well known back in 2014 during the purchase of Twitch but nothing really done to stop DMCA.
I mentioned back on twitter June asking for this feature to privatize at least unlist because there was little to no time for people to review, 5 months and nothing was implemented.
Man. This makes so much sense. Pure ignorance, I uploaded a clip I was playing a song. Got copyright I just deleted the video. Now I get none I just watch what I post and upload, but when I do play music headset off. Great video.
For people not familiar with these kinds of issues and how much of a PIA they can be for the content creator themselves, just skim thru some of the Lawfull Masses videos on youtube DMCA cases: ruclips.net/user/Lawfulmassesunitesearch?query=DMCA Leonard is a licensed copyright attorney that deals with tons of DMCA cases and reviews a bunch of DMCA case battles channels have had with other people and companies. One thing to note is about the DMCA requirements, and this is hotly debated on YT still, is that the site operator(YT, twitch, FB, etc.) can be forced to disclose identifiable information about the uploader of DMCA'ed content so that a personal lawsuit can be filed against them. Because Twitch will try to operate inside of the safe harbor clauses, Twitch WILL NOT and CAN NOT protect anyone on their platform from liability. Also if a lawsuit gets filed against these big creators, there is no legal requirements the case must be dropped if the content creator removes the content at some point during the legal process. In a legal sense, the damage was already done and the rights holder is still well within their legal rights to seek damages claims. I think this is something these big streamers don't know or care to understand. "Oh if I get sued I'll just delete that stuff then. Problem solved no more lawsuit!" is probably how they feel about it but not how these lawsuits work.
You said you haven’t heard of anyone returning from a DMCA strike, just wanted to let you know SquishyMuffinz was banned for DMCA then unbanned 2.5 hours later.
Yeah this is a huge bucket of Nope for me. I deleted everything after backing up my clips and just permanently deleted vods(including some I really wish I was able to backup, such as a stream where I had my dad talk to the stream which is lost forever) and just absolutely no music at all in any stream. It's kind of a blessing, really, because having music on stream means viewers have to listen to it so now they can either listen in silence or just put up their own music to listen to, and also it means that if for some reason I want to pull footage from my streams for other content like on youtube, I don't have to have issues with editing together various clips with different parts of music in it. I don't know. I don't want to be banned for something I can easily fix.
Agreed on your idea that this is no longer an evergreen platform. I'm taking my clips and highlights to my other platforms where i can and it's appropriate.
If you're not afraid of DMCA, then you're just either A: Really Suborn or B: Dumb, This issue is so bad that it's technically against DMCA to do the most basic stuff like sharing your music with family! Of course it's impossible to police it. . .. BUT, if you're playing a song YOU bought to a friend or family you owe the DCMA/Rights holder royalties. You ONLY paid for yourself and yourself only to stream/listen to that music + You don't even have the right to do ANYTHING else with that music. The law is completely and utterly trash tier and NEEDS a Hot-Fix/Balance update.
Idk if you will these this but I just thought of it now even though I have commented like 3 times 😅 what is up with DCMA and copyright and someone singing... no music in the background, no indication of any sound whatsoever besides the person singing the lyrics? I have heard so many mixed answers on this and its so confusing. I generally thought singing with your own voice only was harmless because they dont own your voice, and since its technically a cover, isn't it transformative?
DJs in their sets are supposed to have licenses to use that music. Big DJs that play for huge crowds 100% have licenses or play their own music. Remixing a song is not fair use.
I don't think so, hosting streaming services is expensive and if it isn't creating revenue or giving you an audience (which you can use for data collection) it isn't really worth it. So that was more likely to influence Microsoft in their decision making then some DMCA fear that at the time wasn't really relevant.
@@thecooletompie it was relevant cause youtube went through it you can even go as far back as nabster. Untill recently youtube bearly broke even for alphabet, amzon treats twitch like a tax write off much like amzon services cause only thing that they care for is aws. Honestly i dont think it was profitability issue cause the streaming/video hosting dont make a dent in thier respective parent our main branches. It just a headache to deal with.
Probably not. The simplest reason for them to shut down Mixer was that it wasn't making them any money, and would cost way too much to become truly competitive with Twitch and RUclips.
@@Dr_Mads We understood what you meant. Merely speculating whether or not potential future DCMAs was a minor part of their decision isn't interesting. It could have been, and it might not have been. You don't need our opinion on that, and don't need our help to try to figure it out. Any huge corporate decision is usually made for a variety of different reasons discussed internally by the executives. But there's usually one big reason that motivates them beyond any other. It's always related to either money, or legal problems (which costs money). If you follow Occam's Razor, by far the simplest is that Mixer was costing them more money than they were willing to continue losing, especially given their competitive disadvantage.
@stackhaufen I understand that the game has bought the rights for the music they use but how can a robot that is looking out for copyrighted music being played differentiate between songs from games and background music on your stream?
I really hope this video gains traction...unbiased opinion is the best opinion..imo especially from someone with a higher level of business and branding experience. Im sure someone from all top streamers teams or circle is watching this video and talking and they should. 2020 is already a shitty year and the likelihood of a turd covered nail on the coffin is inbound. Be smart people, secure the bag.
Hey Devin, it would be great if you could put twitch chat top right so we on RUclips can see their reactions. Also white text on a white background is hard to read. Cheers!
I've said it before in one of your videos and I'll say it again, TWITCH is not by any means, OBLIGED to create backups of your streams at all. If you consider yourself (and in YOU I mean in general not only Devin) a professional or serious streamer/business, then it is your responsibility to back up your streams EVERY DAY, you end your stream, you download your VOD and storage it locally or pay for an external server. I did that when I was creating content for some streamers. HUGE streamers have more than enough money to hire someone to download their streams everyday to back them up but they don't want to spend a dime on that kind of things. Then when the shitstorm hits ground, they blame the platform for that and not themselves for losing their legacy. And again, when we hit upload on youtube or hit Live on twitch/youtube you are agreeing to not upload and/or use copyrighted material yet you all do. That being said, Twitch it's not exempt of guilt here, they know every single streamer use copyrighted material yet they don't give a darn until things like this happens. 99% of E-girls only watch videos for hours while they get thousands in donos=money for twitch and that's why they allow it. You just wait till the DMCA come from people demanding money every time a streamer watch their content. Music DMCA is just the beginning boys and girls.
What people seem to forget is that akso sound effects are copyrighted. heard someone who got a dmca notice because of wind sounds in World of Warcraft, and police sirens in persona 5. Its not twitchs fault for whats happening, but its their fault there is a sever lack of systems to deal with it. And are music companies being greedy? Well, does bears shit in the woods? But the source of the problem is how outdated the DMCA is. And how hard it is to prove fair use in systems that automatically asumes otherwise.
What about the streams have have parts of it muted by Twitch. So those also get DMCA claims even though those sections have been muted? I don't know how any of this works, so this video has been helpful!
1. twitch doesn't have the proper systems in place. so everything slipping trough the cracks can get you a DMCA claim 2. they can easily DMCA you live if they wanted because they have the technology to do so
What about streamers who have mediashare enabled on stream all the time and directly get paid to play DMCA music on stream? Will they face bigger consequences or just a normal strike?
What if they're playing from Spotify? (Which they probably are) The streamer pays for Spotify and the Artist/Record Label receives the revenue for each play. How would that work?
Spotify has the license, not you. You are allowed to listen to the music. That´s it. You pay for the right to listen to the music not the right to stream the music.
Until this happened, I legit thought there was some deal with twitch that streamers could use music because I lived through napster days and I just know you can't use copyrighted music for free. I thought everyone knew that tbh. I always wondered how they got away with it. Back in the napster days I switched to limewire because they weren't shut down yet, and I got a call from my internet provider saying they knew I downloaded limewire and named songs I downloaded, and they told me to delete it now or I might get sued. Scared the s*** out of me. Never downloaded a song for free again. Now I use Epidemic Sound for my streams and YT videos.
one thing that does not make sense to me is that not allowing for there songs to be played on stream takes away such a huge crowd to come and play your song. I usually find music second hand, i am not gonna go out of my way to find new artists and the only way i find those new artists is by second hand accounts, not advertisements not any of that shit. just hearing a song i like
Interesting point about AWS storage costs, Most storage for that magnitude of requirement will probably run AWS S3 Buckets using FA storage classes, Since your charged per X amount of quantity of storage used (more storage used higher the bill) if you say, recuced the quantity by Y % you save Z amount cost per month as aws bills, put it another way, Within your domain the most powerfull motorvator is fear... fear is the easiest means of control, nothing is gained without sacrifice, so who fears the slaughter, who makes the sacrifice. Food for thought....
![Coheed and Cambria - Searching for Tomorrow [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hDsYGLbmadg/mqdefault.jpg)
Sad that the major music labels still are so brutally money hungry that they do things like this. It's one of their last dire attempts to gather as much money as possible so that they won't go under - Fact is however that Major labels are dying as more and more artists/music producers now (who haven't signed away their life to contracts) are now turning to independent music distribution tools, through which they earn all the money whilst keeping the rights. Simultaneously more and more of the modern creatives cherish the potential in Attention over money. Artists like myself for example who allow our music to be used for free if credit is given and who don't include our music into copyright systems.
Record labels are partnered with Music streaming companies. Streaming revenue is going through the roof as the vocalists get pennies on the dollar. Spotify revenue was up by 30% from a year before. Revenue in 2019 was $7.5 Billion. To put the current earnings, Billie Eilish being the most trending vocalists in 2019 made less in 5 years than Mariah Carey did in one for sales. The record labels are being consolidated into partnerships with music streaming companies. Spotify purchased 16 companies, out of 16, 5 copyright related detection across all platforms. Which means they fully expect to generate billions from copyright disputes. Leading into the current Twitch situation.
That’s what happens when you’re a multi billion dollar company
This was happening way before covid
What music distribution tool do you use? I have a hard time unsterstanding legality when it comes to music but that tool sounds great.
Moop on strike!!
I'm just here as a Notepad fan boy.
Ikr, I get hard every keystroke he types into that thing
I sometimes wish he'd switch to Notepad++ or something where a dark theme is available :( can't watch these at night
Notepad is legit my favorite thing Microsoft has every made.
Notepad++ shits on microsoft notepad, just saying ;)
@@thedomeguy wow... You're easily pleased.
These guys aren't old enough to remember that everyone (even 13 year olds) were being sued during the napster days.
I remember that shit..I was scared to use limewire for weeks when that happened
@@norcalbowhunter3264 they overestimate twitch. They will kneel and make the hard choices if need be. Then people will really start thinking about just how secure they are
Lmao seriously that shit was nerve wracking
Yep. I got nailed for having Metallica in my Napster files.
Yes! Thank you. I said the same thing and someone tried to nuh-uh me. Like what.
28:08
This was what I've been thinking since the start. Twitch wants to save storage space so they're deliberately handling this negligently, and gave the only option to creators being that they have to delete all their content. Because you're right, they COULD have made a 'hide' function to make VoDs unlisted. My first thought when the only option was to delete content was that Twitch just wanted to save money on storage. Unbelievable.
Obviously the threats of DMCA takedowns and 'not operating under Safe Harbor' are what prompted this situation in the first place. I don't think someone at Twitch sat around thinking up ways to save money on storage/free up space and this is what they thought of, but this situation is literally either "we were not prepared for this, sorry but this is the safest option we have right now", or "This requires the least amount of work from us, and will benefit us if you delete all your stuff, thanks"
Going after the big streamers would be a “test my gangsta” move. It would be something that would basically set the rules. It would be idiotic for the industry to not go after them first.
@@lildirtdick777 you didn't read the comment right. he literally said it would be stupid for them to not go after them. like you said its buisness 101.
@@kevind3974 Head of the snake as they say.
It's the same thing you would do if you go to a new school or start a new job. You find whoever is at the top of the chain and you attack them. Everyone else will fall in line.
@@Steve-xo4nb yeah when you get a new job just start being hostile to everybody, really asserts dominance, big alpha play, I'd be surprised if after 5 times verbally assaulting your boss you aren't CEO of the whole damn business.
@@thatrespectablehuman1884 lmao dude you really don't understand how it works. Usually there is the 1 tough guy already established... He will try and fuck you around... If you shut him the fuck down. No one gonna mess with you... You don't go causing shit... That's just being stupid... I know how this works dude.
Devin takes off headset: holy sh- he has ears
@SEACRESTSLAYER I blame the long hair from pandemic. It’s been a while and for some reason I noticed like oh wow look at those 😩😂❤️
Devin leg reveal if that video get 69k likes.
Whoever did the cuts: Thank you for saving me time!
So glad you enjoyed it!!!
“When god created the girth” Devin Nash 2020
"And he said, woah... that is girthy... and it was good."
The idea that the music industry suing Napster or other content sharing platform shows that the industry is savage and is less of a breach than content creators playing music on stream is a horrendous take. These platforms were a plight on the music industry in the early 2000s where music streaming was not a thing and it directly impacted single and album sales. Creators playing songs may lead to a slew of individual lawsuits (i doubt) but the argument that they are more a threat to the music industry than piratebay, limewire, or napster is an argument in bad faith/just bad.
Shoutout to Jake Lucky, part time stripper part time broadcaster!
Don't forget industry plant lol 😂
Got my wawa, too late for coffee now
Made RUclips videos before the times of Copyright and it took years for them to develop the DMCA system.. Twitch has an uphill battle here.. I just hope they don’t get nuked along the way
Not likely considering it belongs to Amazon. And otherwise people simply will float RUclips Gaming.
@@afa1515 I don't understand why they don't liscence music avaible from Prime music to be used on twitch streams?
@Zerico Gaming They might probably try to sell it to Facebook, since Facebook has more use in developing a copyright system. Better then simply shutting it down at least. Amazon surely won't invest billons into creating something like that when Twitch overall doesn't make money. But what stands is, that the streamers will simply move on to another plattform if that happens. It's not a tradegy, it's normal on a neutral market.
@@afa1515 true and that would suck
OK now lets go to instagram live and ban every artist listening to another artists’ music
they'll do that too.
@cubid Twitch's DMCA policy managed to target/affect the guitarist from Dragonforce playing his own music. Nobody is safe or gets grace when the music industry wants to enforce copyright; they're willing to eat their own.
Exactly are they banning people on insta? Or not because maybe they don't archive live streams?
@@nathancasey7712 nope
@@MAMAvsGOD ik it was rhetorical
Love coming to this channel. Mr Nash has one of the best informative channels out here. Keep doing that good work man.
OCR stands for Optical Character Recognition and is for recognizing text not sound.
For those wondering like me, Devin meant ACR: "Automatic content recognition (ACR) is an identification technology to recognize content played on a media device or present in a media file."
@@Nate.Wilson oh makes more sense now! Thanks
I'm just happy two people had a back-and-forth here on the internet without being toxic or insulting each other. There is hope.
@@metal-adjacent I know right!
Why isn’t amazon using their music service hand in hand with Their Streaming Service? Sounds like an Amazon Music problem.
because amazon music is shit compared to spotify
@David Freer just shows how clueless you are tbh, livestreaming is a completely different license then just musik streaming. A much more expensive one at that, in no way will amazon or twitch pay for that.
@@Olsenator neither amazon music or spotify provide licenses "to stream", you can just use them for DMCA-safe stuff. If you want to stream Kanye you're going to have to pay a fat check to Kanye, that's where the danger is.
Radio channels have license to broadcast music to thousands of people. Why not make a tier of Amazon/Spotify music, more expensive than regular subscription (by how much IDK), that permits them to broadcast music, in similar terms that radio channels have that license, and have part (if not most) the money from these subscriptions go to the music industry?
@@Olsenator Amazon music is only able to *stream* the music. They don't have the actual rights to *use* the music.
I think a lot of it is generational. They grew up just downloading music, and playing it and putting it into videos and whatever. Most people don't even know that its been illegal this whole time, since the Kazaa days!
Strong words at the end! It's great how honest Devin is.
Remember when creators went after youtube clip channels?
Very good point.
not really the same though
@@ajhandsome01 kinda of similar tho. They went after them claiming copyright and stuff like that. "You're making money uploading clips that you didn't own etc." It's like that B rate villain getting destroyed by the main one at the end of a game and if they wanna buy into that fight godspeed to them.
remember when streamers saw this happen with youtube and most of the reactions were making jokes and memes
the laws are old and bad and the music industry has abused this for years but I don't feel empathy for most of these streamers even the ones I like.
most act like irresponsible kids unprofessional fking divas that think they have privileges.
their argument that they all do about they are helping companies doing free advertising is the perfect example of this
@@MorseLane but the music industry doesn't care if you don't come for the music. If they see they are losing money they can easily say that the viewers are since their ©️ content is being played
I know Twitch has failed it's creators but let's not forget that by the definition of the law these same creators are "stealing" (using copyrighted material in their own "craft" to enhance it) live (and now stored) in front of thousand of people and up until now almost nobody has done anything against them and when they now have to delete their legacy that is full of legal violations I ask my self "Why should we feel bad for them". I know this take is an unpopular one but it's pretty deeming when you look at it from a legal perspective. Maybe the law should chance, but change the law before you break it or else the law has no meaning to it.
Devin is getting the Xqc stutter - "I-i-i can't H-h-how a-a-a-nd" it works showing how astounded he is.
Glad you point out how the antiquated DMCA law was fought against and lost by youtube. This law needs major adjustments for individual creators because if a human watched a stream they would realize the content producing any value/income is NOT the music.
Have you considered Harris Heller's idea for solving this issue? If you make creators pay for a broadcaster license for spotify, apple music, etc. and find a way to track how many viewers are present when a song is played, you can count each viewer as a fraction of a play since the music isn't the main focus of the stream.
Thats smart
Anyone can purchase broadcasting licenses for top 40 songs or even a whole catalogue of songs from their choice of record label. Thing is that it is not cheap. Right now, the only cheap option and the only streamer friendly option/s are Epidemic sound $15 p/m, Monstercat $5 p/m or Jericho's record label @nightmode. If you really want to play drake on your streams you HAVE to pay $500+ p/m. The only reason I don't believe in Harris's idea is solely on the fact that it isn't profitable for recordlabels to have their songs played once on a stream and have 10,000+ viewers listen to the song that they could have earned more money from spotify if they all individually listened to the song. The music industry doesn't care if the song isn't the main portion of the stream. You can get DMCA/Lawsuits just from an outdoor stream and a car with loud music rolls by it really is that easy.
Again, you can have licensing for songs, its just your budget determines the song. With no budget your best bet is to not play music at all or copyright free music.
Oh and be careful when you go on youtube that says that a song is "Copyright free" chances are that it isn't.
-hope that helps
@@justwolfbane5071 p/m meaning per month? Doesn’t sound very expensive.
@@JRCxyz Because streamers are cheap themselves, they don't want to spend if they think they don't need to. This is because in the past they got away playing copyright music for free, so they thought they don't need to pay for it.
that's what i was thinking, count the view count as a full view. you wouldn't get a partial view. but then amazon is gonna be paying for that for twitch.
I remember when they implemented their version of what youtube did; where it mutes the Music on the vods. I remember how FRUSTRATED I was trying to build playlists that were 'safe' of copyright issues AND/OR muting my vods which is audio that can never be recovered again. Here we are...6-7 years later and I find out that relying on the Twitch software to properly ID 'safe' vs 'unsafe' music WASN'T ENOUGH and now all that content I have to go back and download/archive just to avoid losing access to fond memories.
There's a SEVERE lack of tools for content creators to source music and know it's SAFE. I've even had 'copyright free music' mis-labeled and end up with a muted vod and now I find out we have the OPPOSITE ISSUE as well? To even deal with this stuff as a hobby (I don't even offer a sub button on any of my channels) just to reduce my risk as an individual is frustrating. Getting a few extra bucks a month just isn't worth the risk to me; but apparently even that wasn't enough. I doubt I'll get sued being a small creator; but just the extra steps to prevent losing my content or avoid a ban is enough to seriously tilt me
Never mind the fact that If I stream for 6 hours I'd like to enjoy wtf I'm listening to personally...and the hours and hours of building a playlist containing nearly 200 songs is useless now?
When twitch first implemented their software I originally used an audio-cable to strip the music out of my broadcasts; but frankly...I don't like the detachment from what my audience is hearing- Twitch is a platform you want to connect to your audience never felt right thus why I built the special playlist so I could go back to streaming with music.
The Music Industry needs a new business model rather than praying on people because of their own failings to get with modern times and evolve
In a way Music Artists are like reversed sponsors.
While streamers usually get paid to stream games/use products.
RIAA wants streamers to pay them for sponsoring streamers with music.
Which makes sense, but there needs to be better tools available to handle those kinds of deals.
How does this differ from people using music when they make posts on their story on Instagram. Over a billion people could be sued...Daily
its not a full song its a clip from a song thats why tiktok only dose 1 min vids
@@packzfn8187 so how is it also fair game to claim videos that include a miniscule portion of a song or even something that sounds like an essence of a specific song that is being claimed on.
@@nikk2f7 its isnt fair but my pops always told me life aint fair so idk what to say there
@@packzfn8187 that doesn’t mean it’s not using copyrighted music and it’s not converted under fair use.
@@packzfn8187 doesn't matter, they can still DMCA instagram if they want. Maybe it will be the next target after twitch.
i loved the dab when jake name dropped devin xD
the most cringe thing is a white boy dabbing plz stop
Thank you so much for being honest and not sugar coating it for the betterment of our education on the subject
Literally today nickmercs just tweeted out that he got hit by DMCA. Karma.
@Watermelon Karma doesn't care if you deserve it or not lol.
@Watermelon No Karma doesn't always result from something bad. He thought he was fine and DMCA couldn't do anything cause he had connections but he still got striked. Karma.
Absolutely agree, these "Top Influencers" are definitely out of their league at this point. They've been on top so long they believe they're untouchable.
I don’t think that’s the case, I just think they feel as if that they should just be able to listen to the music, which I honestly agree with, it’s just the music industry being greedy as usual
@@FALLENSK8ER1995 plenty of copyright free music out there, they choose to ignore DMCA and their reactions have proven they're all above it. The ban wave will help.
I'm streaming almost every day and I'm one of the only creators that didn't get an Email of Twitch saying that I have Copyrighted Content on my Channel. And I have ~60 VODs on my channel and I'm pretty happy that I looked forward to just play Uncopyrighted music on stream. It's not hard and it's still good music. So I myself can't understand how you are able to just ignore it like it's nothing.
Still, thanks for making this video. Keep going. Pog
Twitch Streamer: I'm a big deal. I'm worth, like, $50,000,000, it would be so bad for someone to try and just erase my channel.
RIAA: We tried to sue LimeWire for $72 Trillion in damages a decade ago which was more money than the world collectively had.
Metallica: We managed to successfully sue for $100,000 per infringement from Napster in 2000
The 5 Major Labels: We sued Napster USERS, COLLEGE STUDENTS for using the service in order to make an example of them, and scared the majority of the users off the site
Yeah if they wanted to they could probably finanically ruin any of the top streamers just by suing them for damages from the past years. Imagine them coming into court like "yeah here are 279 examples last month of copyright infringement" 👀👀
i love how much of a tool nickmercs is and his ego has gotten soo big he acts like these HUGE music corps cant even touch them.. it just goes to show how much of a platform these people have and how is has gotten to them.. im glad to see tim take action and laugh at how nick acts like hes too big to be bothered
They're cheaters in games anyway! Get them out!
14:38 OCR stands for optical character recognition. It's used in visual not audial recognition.
Good video, but OCR is to recognize text and video but not audio, images. Also, in online marketing a lot don't use CPM but CPA (cost per action).
I think is pretty dumb to just delete everything, maybe I'm missing something but are ALL twitch clips breaking DMCA? Or can streamers pick and choose what they delete?
Big Clap for Zoid and Captinturtle for their first offical editing and thumbnail in the lab.
WideHardo Zoid & turtl
legend shit lets gooo
Why would you fade out right in the middle of his 'final thoughts'? Bad edit job IMO
@@TheJaysun17 Ok lets see you make a video.
@@TheJaysun17 I forgot to add an exponential fade :elnosabe:
God damn your production quality is good. Good job to you and your editing team
It's still more of an issue of the music industry not learning.
Napster/LimeWire era eventually lead to streaming music, that was a huge change, took forever.
Meanwhile, currently ADpocalypse and the DCMA chaos is absolutely legacy wet brain thinking on their part, but eventually they'll figure out a solution like how to streamline music licensing or finally making that DCMA automation attach music links into content.
I would kill for a "music featured in this video" tab/list so I listen to a new song out check out an artist, etc.
So creators stopping all music in their content is counter productive for the moment and Facebook's solution is more of a stop gap for the time being, but again eventually they'll find a better solution.
just like train got 21s permission. nick got drakes permission to play his music
Yeah, that was cool, but i don't think everyone can get everyone's permission to play music otherwise there would be no profit.
Drake doesn't completely own his masters for albums/commercial mixtales from So Far Gone to Scorpion unlike 21 who only signed a distribution deal early on.
Good luck with having permission, if the Label goes after you, Drake will do jackshit about it.
Devin, Google doesn't give their money to music industry. RUclips gets their money, it's creators, who doesn't get their cut of advertising money, because music rightholders receive creators money.
Thanks
@Tommy Walker You missed the point. He doesn’t say that Google isn’t RUclips (because it is obviously), he says that RUclips/Google (AdSense) keep THEIR cut of the ad revenue and give the cut OF THE RUclipsR to whatever label claimed his video. Simply put: Google takes 45%, Label takes 55%, RUclipsr takes 0% of the ad revenue.
It's an important distinction, but it makes sense though, it's up to the creator to choose whether he wants to use licensed music or not, there's no reason Google should take a cut from their profit
@@zilliq that's true, but there exists copyright trolls as well.
Shout out to Zoid and Turtle! Congrats y'all!
Devin I recommend your videos all the time to my streamer friends that are starting out. Always good to know the basic ins and outs of the platform you stream on. Thank you :)
The streamers have been so subserviant to twitch, turning a blind eye to every shitty thing they do that twitch can pretty much get away with anything now.
Tbh this whole situation is a cluster fuck. Idk how twitch isn't taking control to keep their top creators. This doesn't seem like a professional company at all.
Literally every platform that music is played on plays a royalty for that privilege, radio stations, tv commercials, night clubs, pubs...etc etc etc
To think some twitch streamers think they are untouchable is beyond laughable 😂 and I’m a creator...
I once was a original artist, give the creators of the music their due, they deserve it
A lot of it is less the creators of the music going after people, and more the greater music industry. If you were a musician tagged on like say.. UMG.. and you give you permission out.. Well, UMG didn't. and if you're big enough they're not going to let you give it off for free.
Their detection method is just larger scale “Shazam”
Who owns Twitch? Amazon
Who owns Amazon? Jeff Bezos
Who is Jeff Bezos? The Richest Man in the World
Twitch is like 0.1% of Amazon's revenue. Bezos doesn't give a shit about Twitch.
Yea that's fucking soo true he doesn't give a shit if get's shut down it won't be affecting him at all twitch is like a dream job for these streamers streaming they don't have to do anything just do what they do and just say whatever they want while playing they talk abt stuff or even not say anything I'm not saying their bad or neither that its easy to stream its hard but its as easy as it gets for the amount of money they get thrown on
Very clearheaded analysis, you seem to know your shit. I was a bit sceptical of you when I found you, fumbling spells and raging at chat in DnD (EoA, Gerald). But when you stopped reading chat your love for playing your character was what was left so it got better there also.
Twitch failed to create an identification system to recognize what is allowed to be played or not when we stream (RUclips solved it a long time ago). Their only solution is to make us delete a lifetime worth of work and start from scratch. It is unfortunate but if you have no music, it will change the vibe of your channel. We just need to be more creative and use our words to be more captive for our content!
They didn't fail to do it, they don't want to do it.
or use music you have the copyright to or using royalty free music. People spent time and money making the music streamers are using without consent.
“RUclips solved it a long time ago”
Lmfao what.
@@SDREHXC They did.
@@abc123number1america No one is going broke because their song was played in the background of a stream. You act like dollars are literally being ripped from the pockets of these artists. These artists have more money than a majority of us will ever make. They'll survive.
I feel like RUclips is trying to make something to counter this live before switching their UI for streams... like they can get so much momentum if they throw something to help. Like a bot that warns you as you have a DMCA-able content during live stream?
RUclips has this allready
If they find copyrighted matirial in a live stream they give you the option to directly mute or cut that part when the livestream ends bevor you realiese the vod
And if you would stream something completly 100% not fair use the stream gets taken down imediatly
@@gulhumulhu8220 sweet, now they just need to update their BS livestream thingy.... RUclips hurry up dammit 🙃
@@gulhumulhu8220 when did they implement that? Is it a new features?
@@Kellexyz i dont know since when i only heard the first part from a youtuber who occasional streams when he talked on stream with a second youtuber and they wondered why twitch didnt have a private option like youtube
And the takedown from a livestream because of the system is something i seen two times
In researching why Amazon purchased Twitch, an article on the Verge back in August 2014 writes how Twitch was running into licenses issues as it grew in size before the Amazon purchase. The article even mentions Amazon did not have the experience to deal with copyright issues as RUclips back in 2014 when Twitch was looking for a buyer. So, it seems this issue was well known back in 2014 during the purchase of Twitch but nothing really done to stop DMCA.
Looks like Amazon just wanted to make a quick buck with Twitch during its golden age.
Once they ban all the big streamers, maybe then ill get more viewers on my stream lol
Lololololol same! Lololol
Less streamers doesn't make your stream any less trash lol
I mentioned back on twitter June asking for this feature to privatize at least unlist because there was little to no time for people to review, 5 months and nothing was implemented.
Man. This makes so much sense. Pure ignorance, I uploaded a clip I was playing a song. Got copyright I just deleted the video. Now I get none I just watch what I post and upload, but when I do play music headset off. Great video.
For people not familiar with these kinds of issues and how much of a PIA they can be for the content creator themselves, just skim thru some of the Lawfull Masses videos on youtube DMCA cases: ruclips.net/user/Lawfulmassesunitesearch?query=DMCA
Leonard is a licensed copyright attorney that deals with tons of DMCA cases and reviews a bunch of DMCA case battles channels have had with other people and companies.
One thing to note is about the DMCA requirements, and this is hotly debated on YT still, is that the site operator(YT, twitch, FB, etc.) can be forced to disclose identifiable information about the uploader of DMCA'ed content so that a personal lawsuit can be filed against them.
Because Twitch will try to operate inside of the safe harbor clauses, Twitch WILL NOT and CAN NOT protect anyone on their platform from liability. Also if a lawsuit gets filed against these big creators, there is no legal requirements the case must be dropped if the content creator removes the content at some point during the legal process. In a legal sense, the damage was already done and the rights holder is still well within their legal rights to seek damages claims. I think this is something these big streamers don't know or care to understand. "Oh if I get sued I'll just delete that stuff then. Problem solved no more lawsuit!" is probably how they feel about it but not how these lawsuits work.
You said you haven’t heard of anyone returning from a DMCA strike, just wanted to let you know SquishyMuffinz was banned for DMCA then unbanned 2.5 hours later.
Probably took financial hit
good vid
Yo my man Dellor here soaking up all this info. Pog
sup dell
this didnt ring me as dellor content, anyway much love
My boy dellor knows he is 1000 IQ DOMINATING
:3
Yeah this is a huge bucket of Nope for me. I deleted everything after backing up my clips and just permanently deleted vods(including some I really wish I was able to backup, such as a stream where I had my dad talk to the stream which is lost forever) and just absolutely no music at all in any stream. It's kind of a blessing, really, because having music on stream means viewers have to listen to it so now they can either listen in silence or just put up their own music to listen to, and also it means that if for some reason I want to pull footage from my streams for other content like on youtube, I don't have to have issues with editing together various clips with different parts of music in it. I don't know. I don't want to be banned for something I can easily fix.
Agreed on your idea that this is no longer an evergreen platform. I'm taking my clips and highlights to my other platforms where i can and it's appropriate.
Thumbnail is on point for this one Devin!!!!
i literally stream guitar hero/clone hero which is ALL SONGS....... WOULD THIS MEAN I CANNOT STREAM THIS???
Love devins analysis of this stuff
If you're not afraid of DMCA, then you're just either A: Really Suborn or B: Dumb, This issue is so bad that it's technically against DMCA to do the most basic stuff like sharing your music with family! Of course it's impossible to police it. . .. BUT, if you're playing a song YOU bought to a friend or family you owe the DCMA/Rights holder royalties. You ONLY paid for yourself and yourself only to stream/listen to that music + You don't even have the right to do ANYTHING else with that music. The law is completely and utterly trash tier and NEEDS a Hot-Fix/Balance update.
For certain music, the video can outright be blocked worldwide depending on which company owns the copyright to it
Mixer: "so you're saying there's a chance?"
Idk if you will these this but I just thought of it now even though I have commented like 3 times 😅 what is up with DCMA and copyright and someone singing... no music in the background, no indication of any sound whatsoever besides the person singing the lyrics? I have heard so many mixed answers on this and its so confusing. I generally thought singing with your own voice only was harmless because they dont own your voice, and since its technically a cover, isn't it transformative?
Another question: how does using music in your stream compare to DJ’s using music in their sets? They use other songs and earn their own income of it…
DJs in their sets are supposed to have licenses to use that music. Big DJs that play for huge crowds 100% have licenses or play their own music. Remixing a song is not fair use.
@Genocide is fun as someone that's trying to be a DJ he's pretty much on the mark
@@FoolishPlays I heard you can use it when live but you can’t for example upload it as set
@@jerowns from what I've been told its not allowed but they dont stop it as of yet but in the coming years there will be tools to dmca live shows
Gonna watch later but just wanted to stop by to say Top Tier thumbnail Devin
I learned a lot! Thanks!
3:34 "Genesis 1:1 the book of Devin Nash, when god created the *_Girth_* "
Great thumbnail got me to check it out
Is it not possible for Amazon to use rights acquired for Amazon music on Twitch?
Awesome video as always Devin!
28:05 100% agreed, a hide function would take 2h for one dev. There's no other reason I can think of beside saving storage money
taking ludwigs thumbnail and title advice well i see. good shit devin
Twitch: This is the worst thing that can ever happen
RUclips: First time?
This was a Whole Lesson for me! Thank you
Do you think when Microsoft was considering shutting down Mixer had this DMCA incoming shit storm somewhere on sight?
I don't think so, hosting streaming services is expensive and if it isn't creating revenue or giving you an audience (which you can use for data collection) it isn't really worth it. So that was more likely to influence Microsoft in their decision making then some DMCA fear that at the time wasn't really relevant.
@@thecooletompie it was relevant cause youtube went through it you can even go as far back as nabster. Untill recently youtube bearly broke even for alphabet, amzon treats twitch like a tax write off much like amzon services cause only thing that they care for is aws. Honestly i dont think it was profitability issue cause the streaming/video hosting dont make a dent in thier respective parent our main branches. It just a headache to deal with.
Probably not. The simplest reason for them to shut down Mixer was that it wasn't making them any money, and would cost way too much to become truly competitive with Twitch and RUclips.
@@thedomeguy @thecooletompie as I clearly said "somewhere on sight" not as the main reason... but thank you guys for trying.
@@Dr_Mads We understood what you meant. Merely speculating whether or not potential future DCMAs was a minor part of their decision isn't interesting. It could have been, and it might not have been. You don't need our opinion on that, and don't need our help to try to figure it out.
Any huge corporate decision is usually made for a variety of different reasons discussed internally by the executives. But there's usually one big reason that motivates them beyond any other. It's always related to either money, or legal problems (which costs money). If you follow Occam's Razor, by far the simplest is that Mixer was costing them more money than they were willing to continue losing, especially given their competitive disadvantage.
I have a somewhat related question, how does this work with games like Tony Hawk PS with soundtracks that have popular songs?
@stackhaufen I understand that the game has bought the rights for the music they use but how can a robot that is looking out for copyrighted music being played differentiate between songs from games and background music on your stream?
@stackhaufen thanks for the insight, it’s going to be interesting to see how much streaming will change in the next couple months.
Banger title and thumbnail
Good stuff, as always, Dev 🙏🏻
Thanks for the information
congrats Zoid and Turtle!!
18:43 Ahh..Napster, always causing the dial-up internet connection to become slow.
Love your content!!
My boy Devin always comin thru with the facts! Love your takes. Btw I love jakes content also! He comin up and he deserves it
I really hope this video gains traction...unbiased opinion is the best opinion..imo especially from someone with a higher level of business and branding experience. Im sure someone from all top streamers teams or circle is watching this video and talking and they should. 2020 is already a shitty year and the likelihood of a turd covered nail on the coffin is inbound. Be smart people, secure the bag.
I love the fact that Devin is a fan of Jake. made me smile.
Hey Devin, it would be great if you could put twitch chat top right so we on RUclips can see their reactions. Also white text on a white background is hard to read. Cheers!
I thought there was a system in place on twitch which muted copy righted music in VODs?
28:35 this is such a bIG TRUE. Moments like these, I find my love for Devin.
I've said it before in one of your videos and I'll say it again, TWITCH is not by any means, OBLIGED to create backups of your streams at all. If you consider yourself (and in YOU I mean in general not only Devin) a professional or serious streamer/business, then it is your responsibility to back up your streams EVERY DAY, you end your stream, you download your VOD and storage it locally or pay for an external server. I did that when I was creating content for some streamers. HUGE streamers have more than enough money to hire someone to download their streams everyday to back them up but they don't want to spend a dime on that kind of things.
Then when the shitstorm hits ground, they blame the platform for that and not themselves for losing their legacy. And again, when we hit upload on youtube or hit Live on twitch/youtube you are agreeing to not upload and/or use copyrighted material yet you all do.
That being said, Twitch it's not exempt of guilt here, they know every single streamer use copyrighted material yet they don't give a darn until things like this happens. 99% of E-girls only watch videos for hours while they get thousands in donos=money for twitch and that's why they allow it. You just wait till the DMCA come from people demanding money every time a streamer watch their content. Music DMCA is just the beginning boys and girls.
What people seem to forget is that akso sound effects are copyrighted.
heard someone who got a dmca notice because of wind sounds in World of Warcraft, and police sirens in persona 5.
Its not twitchs fault for whats happening, but its their fault there is a sever lack of systems to deal with it.
And are music companies being greedy?
Well, does bears shit in the woods?
But the source of the problem is how outdated the DMCA is. And how hard it is to prove fair use in systems that automatically asumes otherwise.
What about the streams have have parts of it muted by Twitch. So those also get DMCA claims even though those sections have been muted? I don't know how any of this works, so this video has been helpful!
1. twitch doesn't have the proper systems in place. so everything slipping trough the cracks can get you a DMCA claim
2. they can easily DMCA you live if they wanted because they have the technology to do so
@@bassmeo3937 Ahh gotcha. Getting one live is crazy! Now I get why he said RUclips spent millions working on a system to help with this.
What about streamers who have mediashare enabled on stream all the time and directly get paid to play DMCA music on stream? Will they face bigger consequences or just a normal strike?
What if they're playing from Spotify? (Which they probably are)
The streamer pays for Spotify and the Artist/Record Label receives the revenue for each play.
How would that work?
They can play from spotify to themselves but not for the audience (viewers).
Spotify has the license, not you. You are allowed to listen to the music. That´s it. You pay for the right to listen to the music not the right to stream the music.
Until this happened, I legit thought there was some deal with twitch that streamers could use music because I lived through napster days and I just know you can't use copyrighted music for free. I thought everyone knew that tbh. I always wondered how they got away with it. Back in the napster days I switched to limewire because they weren't shut down yet, and I got a call from my internet provider saying they knew I downloaded limewire and named songs I downloaded, and they told me to delete it now or I might get sued. Scared the s*** out of me. Never downloaded a song for free again. Now I use Epidemic Sound for my streams and YT videos.
one thing that does not make sense to me is that not allowing for there songs to be played on stream takes away such a huge crowd to come and play your song. I usually find music second hand, i am not gonna go out of my way to find new artists and the only way i find those new artists is by second hand accounts, not advertisements not any of that shit. just hearing a song i like
Interesting point about AWS storage costs, Most storage for that magnitude of requirement will probably run AWS S3 Buckets using FA storage classes, Since your charged per X amount of quantity of storage used (more storage used higher the bill) if you say, recuced the quantity by Y % you save Z amount cost per month as aws bills,
put it another way, Within your domain the most powerfull motorvator is fear... fear is the easiest means of control, nothing is gained without sacrifice, so who fears the slaughter, who makes the sacrifice. Food for thought....
What a THUMBNAIL! 🤣
That dab was epic!!!