I've been seeing some rumors about the Daemons Codex flying around / have had people ask me about it directly so I figured I'd address it head on & let you all know my thoughts on the situation. I'd love to hear what you guys have to say about it though, whether you agree with me or not! Now.. Let's just hope GW doesn't make me eat my words a few months from now 😜
I mean i just won a game with all nurgle, i know they would suck but i just like to mix it up. I don’t really care how strong it is if i have at least one or two good detachments and all of them are at least fun to play.
I think you’re right in that this would completely kill the sales of a lot of daemons. I don’t think the resin models going away is a concern, almost every army has lost their resin models
think it would be cool if they did like they did with the GK and Sister Squads we will get in the upcoming Agents codex. so have their own codex, BUT also have Nurgle Daemons in the DG codex, Khorne Daemons in WE codex and so on. in that way the Daemons can benefit from their codex while bein run with them.
Maybe a way how GW could make this without breaking undivided daemons is to still give them their own codex but when mono god worshippers like world eaters codexes come out they get a detachment to soup in their God’s daemons. We’ve seen this with the Gene stealer cult codex with a detachment (Brood brothers) that lets you soup in guard and even give benefits for it. That’s the wishful thinking I have and the most consumer friendly outcome where no player gets screwed over but have more options for armies. We’ll see I suppose but I’m hope for the best.
This is almost exactly how I think they could / should do it too, just give everyone Daemon-centered detachments in their own books while keeping the Undivided Daemons as it's own option & EVERYONE wins. Heck the ultra simple way would be to put a detachment into the Daemons codex that says ~"can mix 1k of so-and-so army & they get this rule" Seems the biggest complaint for people who want them added to their Chaos army is that they don't benefit from their army rules & this seems like the simplest fix PS: I'm not sure if I ever mentioned it before but I find it hilarious I've always called you "Fired Owa" when it's really "Fired Iowa". Just so you know, I'm still going to call you Owa though mwhaha. I need to do another livestream though, miss getting to dick around with you guys 😎
I think the allies rule is fine in concept. It requires Daemons being balanced against the Traitor Legions or you'll just see Traitor Legion players min-maxing and end up with more PBs than PMs. 2nd, and 3rd editions were really bad as far as Daemons in csm books. Daemons were vastly inferior in 2nd (i remember a game where an IG sergeant killed a Bloodthirster in melee. But in 3rd edition csm when the 3.5 codex came out (GW actually released 2 csm codexes in 3rd edition) it had rules for all 9 traitor Legions and the balance was so bad that the 3.5 csm codex was more or less Codex Daemons Lite
I think the success of Be'lakor and undivided makes me think they wouldn't do it. The fact that we've had rules support in balance updates and stuff makes me feel its totally different to the deathwatch situation
Agreed, I think if they wanted to do something like this it's most likely that they'd just start including daemons in the codexes of the CSM legions in addition to a daemon codex. Lord of change in thousand sons and in daemons. Extra sales for GW
Daemon player here since Chaos Daemons rules were in a mini booklet in a white dwarf, I'll be pissed off if I have to buy 4 codexs and I have to have a PURE solo god force...
The only thing I’ll say is I don’t want Demons to get shattered into the four gods. It works in AoS because Demons are half the army. But in 40k, it’s CSM with Demons sprinkled in. I think it’s dumb they can’t soup better, but I like mixing demons together. It’s my favorite thing
Same here! Undivided Daemons have been one of my absolute favorite armies I've ever played, legit I'd be heartbroken if they ever tried to axe them. I'm not worried though, the majority of people seem to share our pov & I would hope GW would be aware of it (though they do love their rug pulls lol)
This. Daemons are way more prevalent in AoS and Old World than they are in 40k. People forget though that there are ENTIRE demon worlds outside of the Eye. So a pure demon army makes as much sense as the Legions do. I think the biggest issue is that outside of the Heresy novels there are way more books involving demons in the AoS/Old World BL novels than in 40k novels
With how the Lore potrays the Chaos in conflict with eachother Aren't there too much Undivided Daemons? Also Chaos outside the 4 Gods & The Chaos Space Marine get shit'ed on Someone remembers that Abadon's Sword isn't just a Cool Sword but also his own Character? What about the Minor Chaos Gods that (supposedly) aren't completely affiliated with The Major Chaos Gods? What's going on with The Daemon King? What about Malal/Malice? And i think i could go on, but more than splitting the Chaos Gods in each of their own Codexes (which in my opinion wouldn't erase or undermine Chaos Undivided) i want a Chaos Independent Codex (dedicated to the Chaos outside the Main 4 Chaos Gods)
Agreed, one of the biggest reasons I play daemons is because random daemon soup is fun. I don't want them to be isolated into single gods ever. Never ever!
@aleanddragonITA Soooo unalined chaos spacemarines? Or just unalined daemons? Separating non god users would be a big money sink and We use to have lots of the random daemons for hire but GW deleted them from the books. Heck, not everyone can even get chaos spawn anymore which is lame.
Admittedly I just want a reliable way of making combined armies, which I think can be achieved without removal of daemons as an army. But that really applies to most of the chaos armies, not just CSM and daemons.
I agree, I'd love to be able to do a "full mixed" Chaos army that just has some of whatever I want from whatever Chaos army. I agree to that it wouldn't require removing their own Codex or anything like that either. Right now we have the ally rules but even a supplement or just a special detachment in the Daemon Codex would solve that (imho!) But yeah one of my favorite things about Chaos is/was how easy it was to ally them with each other; but I'm huge on Undivided so putting them into the other armies books wouldn't work for me
If they get Death Watched, I'll be pissed off. An army I've loved for 4 years and have over 5k points of getting screwed, so now I've got to either make 4 new chaos marine army's or start a new army. I don't think it's gonna happen at all though. There not the most popular faction but they ain't exactly disliked
Yeah I've thought about it & considering how (relatively) new his model is + it being plastic it'd be odd for them to ditch him. Maybe we'll get a Nurgle themed Combat Patrol eventually?
As much as Be'lakor has been in recent lore messing with Vashtor, its definitely not happening. I think they're actually pretty popular in theory; the problem is that they're very expensive to collect, even for Warhammer. Every greater daemon and Be'lakor will cost you $168 each.
I will say one issue that daemons has had for a while now is the difficulty to have a mono themed army. Back in 8th with the daemons boxes having different gods it was easier, but since 9th and then choosing Khorne as the face of the army it has been hard for nurdle friends like me and slaanesh guys like my buddy to have a mono build army that doesn't feel self hamstrung. Breaking into the 4 god books would give it more cohesion as well as a newer more demonic way to play those respective armies. Maybe include some base units that aren't as niche like the greater daemons and core troops in regular can? I'm not sure. Really
These rumours sound like such a PR nightmare! Any product innovation strategy must consider the extent of risk associated with such a manoeuvre. Here’s my theory, I think if anything - it should rest the minds of my fellow Chaos Daemon players. There is a HEAVY emphasis on building a mixed daemon army. We see this in store when GW staff show a selection of daemons that connect to various chaos gods. We see this in the application provided by GW - there is a huge incentive on mixing your army. In fact, as a mono Slaanesh 40K player, staff have even recommended mixing that up whether that was a GW staff member or third party. With this fact in mind, I return to the PR disaster these rumours allude to. Imagine the upset, the competitive lists affected - the sponsors or players GW would be upsetting. You even make a great point on the increasing popularity of this army too! Sounds to me like a rogue idea gone mad. If they wanted to separate these armies - they wouldn’t have put such an emphasis on mixing daemons in the first place!
Totally agree & it definitely crossed my mind how GW is seeing all this themselves. The last thing you'd want is people hesitant to buy more models because they think they'll get "deathwatched" eventually. I doubt they'll address it directly but who knows, maybe the roadmap will shed some light on things soon
Hey @fatarchon! I hope the Daemons don't get phased out. That would gut chaos to an insane degree. In particular, I want to be able to run nurglings with my CSM raiders, cuz getting blitzed by genestealers made left me feeling helpless before I got the little gremlins ready for battle. Hope you're well and keep up the good work!
Same here man, half the reason I got so into the Chaos superfaction was being able to mix & match all my armies together. We already lost a boatload of customization with 9th edition, I'd be pissed if they made it even more strict 😜 Luckily I doubt that'll be the case but who knows with GW
I would be very very surprised if Daemons didn't get their own codex. I think people are completely overreacting to deathwatch not getting their own codex or acting like they've actually been axed. They're still playable as a space marine army with any of those detachments and they still get their own unique units unlike other more iconic space marine chapters.
I have often wondered about how mixed god daemons armies are supposed to function given "the great game" in the lore. If the gods are struggling for dominance, how come their servants are collaborating? But then again, how are Daemons of only one god supposed to win? I guess they have traitor marines to help them? Idk, but it sounds like it would piss off collectors, one way or another. If they do Deathwatch the Daemons, I think it's gonna make bigger waves than what we've seen so far.
I think it's partly handwaved in the lore with the whole "when there's a greater threat they'll come together!", but yeah it's definitely one of those cases of having to suspend our disbelief when Tzeentch & Nurgle come together on the tabletop to kill what amounts to maybe a platoon of Tau or something random like that. But hey, any excuse to run a mix of Daemons (or any models for that matter!) I can get behind hah I don't believe GW is gearing up to do anything drastic with Daemons anytime soon but if they ever did I agree it'd have large repurcussions for the entire game. Tbh I think it'd kill sales for most Daemon kits which, anecdotally, seem to sell really well in my experience. I can't think of a single shop I've visited that didn't have a decent sized collection specifically for Daemons whereas I can't say the same for a lot of other armies
I was thinking about it after recording & the issue I see with the AoS models is that most of them wouldn't fit into 40k (none of the Mortals really work, they're all too medieval / fantasy imho). That said I would LOVE to get my hands on the ones that would fit the background, that lord of gluttony or whatever he's called is *chef's kiss*
Love my deamons. Was a tau and space marine players but just since 10th came out it’s by far my largest army. Really hope they are getting their own codex, they deserve it as army and they’re such a huge part of 40K lore.
Ive said this elsewhere, but spliting daemons up and putting them with their god aligned legions would be bad for everyone but Deathguard imo, Tsons and World Eaters will probably get shafted on their ranges ( here's some daemons, your new wave is done for the next 3 editions), the Changeling already got nerfed because Tsons were souping it into our lists for a lone op so how would that work? Also for Tsons, how would horrors work for Cabal points, they'd either be useless or auto included for every list. Thats not even mentioning Belakor, where is he going? GW need to do MORE with chaos daemons not less, where are all our undivided daemons? Where are new daemons for each god that aren't named characters? Pls GW, dont merge daemons with the legions, do something with them instead
Also! I remember in a video you asked for some ideas for your channel - although the content you push out is amazing anyway! I was wondering if you could maybe do a video dedicated to our daemon made lists - like I would love you to review my list, maybe weigh up the pros and cons of it, create suggestions or maybe even rate it! Like maybe it could start off as a video where you talk about some great mono/mixed lists and then you encourage myself and others to send in ours - could lead to another video to what I was originally saying! Let me know what you think man - love the content! 😂
Been a Daemon fan since I started getting into 40K back in 2019. Had a hard time getting my Daemons of Slaanesh to work with The previous codex, but 10th edition? Everything's working a lot better now I'd say, and the objective number of tournament games win rate has backed that. As an army, they're doing really well right now, especially since they don't have to strictly stick to one Chaos God like they used to (for now) and part of that is the new update in the form of every daemon having deep strike. It's made the army very tricky for opponents to fight, especially if you set up your reserves carefully. In my eyes, there will be nothing funnier than dropping a Great unclean one in a choke point. XD "oh you thought you were going that direction?...nah" Plus with the recent rules update adding shadows of Chaos to all the greater demons, but only for their allegiance daemons (great unclean one gives shadows of Chaos for Nurgle, bloodthirster for Khorne ect.) has made the greater demons better, given them a more solid roll in the army, and with all the buffs they've been getting to their points costs, you can comfortably run at least one in a 1000 point army. Not getting a codex, especially when they're doing really well right now, seems like a very silly thing to do.
best case scenario for me is a 6 detachment book. Keep Their current, 1 for each mono god, and then a Disciples of Belakor, that gives you maximum chaos soup. Chaos ynnari detachment basically.
Thank you brother! I know it's a click baitey title / thumbnail but I wanted to give it a fair shake while also explaining why *I* don't believe it. Hopefully it'll assuage some fears out there
They should bring back some kind of summoning mechanic. Let you bring demons as a Chaos faction however you want, but make it uncertain and give it a cost until you succeed, like you have to assign a model already on the board to summon with a penalty if it's not their Chaos god and you can't place the demon(s) until that model rolls a 7+ or something, but you can bring the demons in turn 2 regardless from your deployment zone only and within some distance of their summoner. But then also stop nerfing demons all the time in other ways. Just my thought.
I'd love that too tbh, it was something we could do for the majority of editions & was always really fun / fluffy imho. It'd take some careful balancing though, if the units still cost full price most people would prolly skip them whereas if they were free they'd get overused. But yeah it's a fun mechanic that I wouldn't mind seeing again. Heck even if it was a slightly underpowered I'd be down
Well as a Chaos space marine/ DG/ TS/ WE player i would like to see them combined with my armies, i have a bunch of daemons that would perfectly fit with my heretic astartes armies, but they should also get a codex chaos daemons too, because the Csm like the Word Bearrers should be able to draw units from every possible god.. In addition Daemons are a single faction that can ally with the marines for so many years and editions, many people would want to play them as a single army... If they get into heretic astartes armies where would Belakor go ?? he's undivided.
If, and its a big if, they do combine Daemons into God specific armies then; if they have mechanics and strategies that are usable in the competitive side. Good example would be how 5th edition marks and daemons interacted. IE MoN with Epidemis
I think something like an old Army of Renown for Be'lakor and a Chaos Undivided daemons army will always exist, but it would be my preference for Mono-God daemons to move support into the Cult Legion books. We had Disciples of the Red Angel for World Eaters last edition, and the Thousand Sons are known for learning the true names of daemons and binding them to service. There's really not a lot of different ways the Cult legions would thematically play as separate detachments, and adding a Brood Brothers-style detachment to run half-Marines/half-Daemons in a way that integrates rules is something I'd love. Or maybe the best way to look at it is how they're doing Agents of the Imperium, as a single book that's including better ways to use its content as Allies. I just know that I want better synergy between including Pink/Blue Horrors or a Lord of Change/Kairos in a Tsons army that goes beyond just the raw datasheet. World Eaters, too, there's gaps in the model range that existing daemons would perfectly fill. Khorne Hounds as skirmishers, Bloodcrushers as cavalry, Rendmaster buffing WE melee would be insane, Skullcannons as good thematic shooting...idk. i want that. I just also don't want GW to screw over people that already have big daemons collections.
I was discussing this today with a friend who asked me if I was afraid of this happening and I told him I'd be pretty okay with it if it happened. So basically I have a bunch of daemons. I hate space marines in general but Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Emperor's Children and World Eaters have some sick models that I actually like especially the daemon primarchs. But if I want to start, say a death guard army, I need 1500pts of new models because I can only use 500pts of daemons right now in a DG army. If they split chaos daemons and put them with the space marine legions, presumably they'd remove the limit on how many daemons you can run in your army, so I could basically just get the models I really like from each faction, like maybe 500pts of each, and associating them with 1500pts of daemons from each god I'd potentially have four fresh armies. I could tolerate that on the condition that we get some of the terribly cool AoS models because oh man those are sick. That being said, two things. First, my main wish is that daemons stay exactly as they are right now for as long as possible, I kind of wish for the codex to be far away because the balance dataslate has finally made them good and opened so many new lists not revolving systematically around Be'lakor. Second, given the infuriatingly high price of models, I would normally not be very happy about GW forcing me to buy even 500pts of new models to be allowed to play my other models that I already have. But since I have a 3D printer, f them.
4th edition was when Daemons got their own codex. I started playing in late 5th with Daemons as my first army, and oh boy was that codex wonky. People just flat out didn't believe the rules worked the way they did.
For anyone wondering. To deploy, you divided your army in half as equally as possible and prayed to the dark gods for guidance. Your entire army started in deep strike and you picked half to drop in turn 1. On a d6 roll of 4+ the half you picked came in. On 1-3, it was the other half. Flamers melted tanks. They wounded anything on a 4+ to wound with no Armour saves. Bloodletters were 18pts each and their swords completely ignored Armour. Kairos Fateweaver granted a 3+ invulnerable save to everyone around him. Fateweaver also had a 3+ rerollable invulnerable save that if you failed that, you had to roll to see if he ran off the board. Nothing had psychic powers, they were "gifts" that worked like witchfires, which was the biggest bone of contention.
I have a theory that GW will do something similar to the new Agents of Imperium. Daemons will get their own codex for undivided /soup factions, but that they will also get the added the single god dedicated factions like in AOS. Best of both worlds.
It was around 7th edition because of the Khorne Deaemonkin Codex. We literally had Khorne CSM+Daemon in a single codex, we just expected this to be followed by the other Gods, which never came.
It seems like they floated this out in 9th edition with the WE codex. Remember that they only had 2 sub-factions, classic WE and WE+Daemons. It seems like the main hurdle for not doing this sooner was the lack of WE and EC as standalone factions, but that seems like it will be resolved soon. As for undivided daemons, it would be simplest to let the index remain playable for full-daemon armies. CSM has its own book with daemon allies, the dedicated chaos factions are rolled in with their respective daemons, likely with one detachment dedicated to daemons, and undivided get to keep their index detachment. The other path would be a GSC-style ally detachment in the dedicated chaos factions. An overrule to the 25% rule to allow them to take more daemons allies. But that rule seems pretty bad in GSC, considering the allies don't interact with the army rules at all. While this feels like the safest option, it also seems like the least interesting.
Honestly if they Finally just did a full "one God per book" like AOS I would love it, and honestly I really can't tell much of a difference from that and rolling them into the associated space marine codex's outside of like what angle you look at it from, like if all the nurgle demons and deathguard are in the same book that is the nurgle book weather they wanna call it deathguard or Chaos: Nurgle
I think it would be odd for them to split up chaos daemons if only because it sabotages their scheme to get a bit more money out of fans looking to go from 40K into AoS. I’m a new player who’s gotten into the hobby via daemons. My mixed gods army consists of units from 5 different AoS factions. If I were to try and pick up AoS, GW has made it so I realistically have to start from scratch even though my whole army is comprised entirely of models that can be played in both games. If they force people to go mono god then anyone who plays chaos daemons in 40K would be able to port their army over to AoS without having to spend a dime. I think the big reason for the way AoS is currently set up is to make it so it’s really difficult to have an army that is legal in both systems. I don’t know, it just doesn’t make sense to me. Like if they want to allow the various csm factions to be allowed to play daemons they can do that without having to delete daemons as a faction. It’s what they do for daemon princes, every faction has access to them for their own army. The whole thing sounds like drama baiting rumor nonsense. A spicy rumor to spark fear in people like myself who are now wondering if the hundreds I spent are at risk of going up in smoke unless I’m willing to fork over a couple thousand to actually play with all the stuff I own. GW might make bad decisions, but they’re decisions rooted in making money. I just don’t see how this actually makes money in any fashion.
I can't say I think this will happen but it would probably mean the daemons of each god alignment would actually get enhancements, army, and detachment rules when played with their respective cult marines and I want that very bad for daemons in general, greatly expanding good mono-god options. That said, I would prefer they still get their own codex focused on undivided while each cult marine codex also included them in their roster, so that's the place you play them as mono god.
I've got around 1000pt of tzeentch demons ATM; these rumours as well as the culling of the age of Sigmar range makes me reluctant to start picking up any other gods' demons just in case they say I can't mix and match.
That's a big reason why I wanted to get this video out, I hate the thought people are holding off on expanding their collections because of what's only rumors atm. Even if it does happen I don't see it happening in 10th, maaaaybe 11th but even then I wouldn't be surprised if they consolidated a bunch of armies (I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't either though 😜)
NOVA is end of August. Hopefully then we'll get a codex roadmap for the rest of the edition. So far they followed the first roadmap as far as release order. I am 99.999% certain Codex:Daemons will be on that roadmap alongside the 4 traitor Legions codexes. If you like Daemons I would just buy more. Assuming the Daemons codex is a standalone codex it's not coming in 2024. My prediction is Aeldari, BA, Drukhari, and either IG or SW the remainder of this year though we COULD get Daemons late this year. GK already confirmed in 2025. Maybe a GK/Daemon starter box
Oh man, yeah wtf with Bonesplitterz! I almost picked up their boxset when they got released & now they're already rolled into Orcs (or however GW did it)
I want to start a death guard army, but I also want to mix in nurgle daemons, but I don't want to lose anything for doing it, so I kinda want the rumor to be real. I'm new to 40k table top, but Death Guard and Nurgle Daemons sound like such a fun army.
They need to stop releasing new armies then. Give Daemons a good allies rule to compel the Traitor Legions to want to take them without their Daemon counterparts overshadowing them
As a Tsons player I hope the God books are true. Tsons' codex has a lot of artificial bloat because of our army rule for the last two editions. Cabal points are so flavorful, but because pretty much only sorcerers generate them, we can't run ANYTHING that doesn't say cabal somewhere on the datasheet without losing a chunk of our power. If Tzeentch daemons were rolled into the codex and were given the proper tags, they could be a massive help. Ik that many WE players also are upset by their lack of models, so it could help them while they wait for the (hopefully) second half of their release. I think we'd need some sort of index added for Chaos Undivided under Belakor, but I feel like that is acceptable and appropriate.
I've been meaning to actually, no promises but I'll see what I can do! I've been running a nasty Soulforged List that's something like 7W 1L atm that'd be fun to share
Exactly, yeah I don't buy those rumors either. Besides GWs been trying to simplify things & adding another 4 different books / complicating other Codices with Daemons doesn't mesh into that at all
I don't know...hmm...so basically my Tzeentch daemons will either be able to 1)take other gods daemons as allies in the current 40k datacards, Or 2) be able to take tzangor & cultists if they get subsumed (again) into thousand sons or get a pure Tzeentch book like aos. It feels more fun sacrificing mortals than other daemons, but other daemons have more tactical options. Fyi aren't Kairic acolytes basically just cultists of Tzeentch?
I’ve been playing for 1.5 years seriously and my pile of units that don’t have data sheets anymore is way too big. Any hint of this kind of thing and it’s enough to freeze all buying for gameplay reasons. That said, I don’t really like the way chaos demons and chaos are currently. I think keep the daemons and CSM factions and implement shared CSM/demon detachments (maybe 1 per book).
Daemons came out as a standalone codex in 4th edition. I remember when Daemons and CSM were in same book. Internal balance was so bad that the most competitive armies were 90% Daemons (there was no such thing as a ratio). You had max of 6 Troop units and Plaguebearers were better than Plague Marines and so you had "Deathguard" armies with 0 Plague Marines. And other weird list building nonsense. Fateweaver had a 3++ save. He hit like a pillow in melee but his psychic might was ridiculous. He won me plenty of games nearly by himself. I agree with you about the Daemons thing. I trust Reddit as much as I trust the CIA. This rumor been around since 6th edition. Just wishlisting by people who were butthurt back then about CSM actually having to take Marines in their Traitor "Marine" armies. 😅😅😅
So I was **into** 40k in 3rd but didn't play at all, but I always get confused - was 4th edition even a thing? I know there was "3.5", is that the same as 4th? Aw to reminisce though, I remember some of the broken builds for Daemons too but from ~6th-7th. 2++ rr1's Screamerstars or infinite Daemon summons. Good times... /s Edit: for the last part of your comment, what really drives me up the wall is people who don't even play Daemons trying to hype it up. Gah that makes me angry hah
@@fatarchon 4th did have a CSM codex and Daemons got split off in 4th. 3.5 codex was an experiment of sorts. I started collecting a "WE" army with 3.5 because my generic CSM army was Khorne heavy and I was hyped that my Berserkers and Khorne marked models had rules other than more attacks than undivided legionnaires. 4th rolled everything back together again but separated the demons. Lots of CSM players hated 3.5 codex. I hated 4th csm because it neutered my 90% khorne csm army. I sold my csm and built up my demons army
Emperor's Child prolly won't have that many models, World Eaters is a terribly small codex, Thousand Suns and Deathguard is fairly limited too, they could mono-god them...
You know, that's a fair point you make there! It'd be a simple bandaid for GW but tbh I think their players would end up hating it too if it meant they didn't get new kits
@@fatarchon everybody wants new toyz. I want datasheets to be accessible to as many faction as it makes sense, we just need a megacodex, maybe online and free
Personally I do not enjoy, playing undivided armies and did not like the 9th edition deamons codex at all. I only really enjoy khorne. I would not be shocked or angry if they split them up like in AoS because I prefer it personally. I adored Khorne deamonkin in seventh for the same reasons. 10th deamon index is frankly a massive step up from 9th imo but it is generic and boring. I personally want my khorne deamons to benefit from rules made specifically for them (Blood tithe) which I think would make balancing easier as you can write more flavorful, crazy rules when you heavily control what units those rules can apply to. I agree the frame work is not really in place for it as things stand as undivided would be pretty neutered but I can easily see a world where the gods get split and each book has 4-5 detachments with a detachment specifically for deamons, 1 for mortals, two that encourages a combination and potentially some wildcard wacky detachment.
Kirioth all but confirmed the rumors and his whispers are super accurate since I started playing. If GW does this it would be a great waay to garantee ill never buy a demon model again. I personally would love each God having their own codex, with a big wave of new demon models for each.
Nothing is "all but confirmed" until it comes from GW. This rumor is 12 years old. It will be a rumor in 3 more years when 11th edition releases. Not saying GW won't DW the demons but lets be real: demons are 1000x more popular than DW are. DW saw a spike by metachasers early on because they were busted to hell. Since the latest balance dataslate they have been collecting dust for the metachasers. Splitting the demons amongst the Legions is a bad business decision (not saying GW isn't capable of that). A new codex with even a SINGLE new unit generates lots of hype. The GDs are what sell the demons. Too many demon players with multiple god demon armies would buy 0 new demons or a Legion codex to only play part of their army. Mono demon armies are possible in AoS but not everyone wants to play AoS. By keeping demons separate from their Legion allies it forces Legion players to buy the demon codex if they want to ally in demons (assuming they don't pirate said publication or use Wahapedia) and of course buy the Legion codex. So 1 book vs 2 but the extra codex being sold to Legion players isn't going to generate the sales figures that selling more demons will. Not to mention more new and existing players are going to be compelled to buy more demons if we can mix and match like current codex. I have 4k of mixed demons. I have 0k of Legion marines. When the demon codex releases I will resume collecting. If the demons get rolled into Legions I will buy 0 more demons and maybe even sell them because if I wanted to play Legions I would have started in 8th edition with DG
@@fateweaver9844 the double codex thing isn’t a point I’ve seen brought up, and that makes a lot of sense. The money head will surely have thought of that outcome keeping them separate. I agree it seems more and more unlikely, what with the rumor being decades old and all that. But, if they did do it, I would certainly never buy demons models because I would have lost interest in them as a faction, that’s gone then. I hope they don’t do it
I want Daemons to still be able to demon blob in all flavors but damn would I love if they simply got the buffs of thier allied factions (DG, WE, Tsons and EP) so they can have some more impact and flavor instead of being allies and not having an army rule when played. A Great Unclean One *doesnt* get to emit an aura of filth and decay in DG? Why? The GUO and Beasts of Nurgle for my DG army is what will get me to get into a Daemon Army and I would hate to see Daemons it go away altogether bc Belakor is a SICK model. But I am just a casual and dont know all the intricacies of balance.
I think we'll get EC this edition but it might be near the end. I'm wondering if they'll have, like, a "winter of Chaos" or something & bust out all the new kits / codices / etc then release EC last as the topper
also if you compare them to Deathwatch one has an index detachment, one doesnt, one got major updates in the past few balance dataslates and one got nothing. They wouldnt put forth this much effort just to can the codex
Actually I think I like the idea of 3ed and 4th edition where the Daemon is part of csm codex where you need a deamon host to summon the greater Daemon . 😊
I love Spoilpox Scrivener! Managed to track one down and just finished painting him, so I'll be pissed if he gets dropped from 40k, especially during 10th. He's still in the AoS Vanguard box, which is annoying even for AoS players who want to buy him separately, but it's even worse for 40k players because half of those models are AoS only. GW's business decisions seem completely unhinged sometimes, so who knows.
There is no shot GW don't give them a codex but what could and should happen id that their codex into something close to the imperial agent codex where a heavy emphasis to souping with other chaos armies is pushed.
On the brightside there would be some *fire* ebay deals going on if they ever went through with it 😈lol nah I really don't see it happening so don't worry man!
in second ed they were own codex, and in 3rd from how many editions they fall under chaos. Even of demon fans as they point out, its 4 incomplete armys that dont quite hesh together mixed together into one army.
I don't think daemons will be deathwatch'ed, but still they may be build-in their god-allaign codexes. Like, it's one of the easiest ways for GW to create new detachments for DG, WE, TS and EC, and it will make daemons players to buy 2 books ( just to play undivided daemon lists and mono-god with unique army rules and detachments)
That's a great point & something I fully agree with. All these changes could be done with a simple detachment, whether in the main Daemon Codex or the respective Chaos armies, they don't have to split up the Undivided option to do that!
I really hope they don't do this. I'm starting to get into Warhammer and have invested into a Chaos Daemons army. I love the ability to mix daemons and my favorite army is Khorne + Tzeentch. I feel that most daemon players love the customizability of the faction as it is, which would make GW lose sales long-term if they did separate them. I can think of many reasons why they would NOT do this and maybe a couple (not super concrete) reasons they would split up daemons. Daemons are 1. popular as they are and 2. generally liked by players as they are. One slight nerf to Be'Lakor is the only real change I would make if they really want to incentivize players to play more mono-god or duo-god armies.
Honestly, for me personally I'd actually be fine with them being split up cause I play mono slaanesh daemons, Hedonites in Aos, and want to get Emp's Children. It would hopefully mean they get more depth for each mono god's rules as Daemons often feels like 4 seperate armies in one. That said, with how much it would negatively impact so many people's collections I don't think it's worth it right now
What I'd prefer they do right now is make detachments similar to the Brood Brothers ones in the GSC codex. Make a detachment in World Eaters called Khorne Daemonkin for example that lets you take 50% daemons and give them access to Blessings of Khorne, have all the strategems work off just the Khorne keyword rather than World Eaters, and make aura abilities on things like Angron and the Bloodthirsters key off the Khorne keyword too. Then you could have really cool monogod support in the new codexes
The only one I'd be okay with is if they break them off into the individual gods codexes, Ive been arguing for years that each god needs more units to flesh them out.
I’d love if demons would be split between the gods from one stand point more models with be produced so as a korne lover I don’t want to buy anything that’s not korne I want korne only models for my demon army but when you do that it leaves me with few options unlike my world eater army or god forbid my nid collection
I would honestly really enjoy daemons going into the codex for the god specific legions. Why should a bloodthirster not get the blessings of khorne in world eaters or GUOs not spread the plague of Nurgle?
Should keep them as they are and if you run death guard, world eaters, thousand suns and * emperor's children* those deamon units should be in their codexs like 8th with none of rule breaking they did in 8th.
If demons are getting deathwatch'd, I think it'll be next edition. If you do it this edition, you don't really have anywhere for Be'lakor to go since the CSM codex is already out, but next edition, I tihnk it'd be plausible they split CSM into CSM and The Lost and the Damned, where Be'lakor could have his own detachment.
I don't know, I don't think they are getting squatted, but maybe rolled in. Daemons are in a good place generally speaking but the models never get updated and they kinda need it. It also seemed that regardless of GW, they seem to do well. It does make me super hesitant to want to buy into them again. Edit: wanted to add, they can't produce the books for armies they have now, there are too many and they are too slow to release, so they aren't getting their own books for each god.
Prediction: chaos daemons will stay for 10th, split in 11th Why: the army rules for the monogod marines are largely written and they’re not going to go back and retcon them. They may fine tune them (like they did for space marines or Custodes) but the basic mechanic is in the bag. And that doesn’t play well with the daemons much. I suspect that 11th edition will bring monogod armies because…. 1. They can rework army rules to play well each other (marine vs daemon) 2. All 4 monogod legions should have a codex - we basically know emperor children are coming this edition as a new army 3. It would follow the AoS model 4. It provides a place for the undivided ones to go That’s my belief without data beyond what I laid out. I hope they get a big support wave this edition if that’s not going to be the case though.
personally as a world eaters player, id LOVE to have khorne daemons rolled into my dex. i love all things khorne, and i would love nothing more than to be able to take daemons without them being a liability due to not benefiting from my army rules. or at the very least id love to have a detachment like the brood brothers one the GSC got.
I predict Daemons getting their codex first and then having a rule similar to IA where World Eaters at 2k could take X amount of Characters and/or X amount of Batteline units. It forces WE players to play WE and not Khorne Daemons with some WE thrown in for "flavor". Lore wise the Word Bearers have the most Daemon allies among the Legions
I would be ecstatic if they made nurgle as its own 40k army as a new player ( I only ever played fantasy / AOS) Although I just started building khorne daemons to mix with my nurgle to make a daemons army
You can do that with the current Codex! 😎 Once we get detachments we can specialize them even more (but I get what you're saying, an entire book of stuff just for Nurgle!)
11:57 I play AoS. All of those models were added to their brand new 4th edition Index. I think they’re gonna get a refresh with new AoS Battle tomes (codexes)
Not happening in 10th. Not enough khorne units for pure khorne Daemons codex and no way in hell are Daemons being folded into the Legion codexes. Daemons as a standalone army are way too popular. GW would actually lose money doing that
I my personnal opinion I wouldn't like to see daemons being splitted as from the 9th codex we got pretty well suported. Even If for me that codex wasn't the best it was a massive step in the good direction, in addition the actual index improved that. It isn't the best codex but once again an other step in the good direction (but in aos beast of chaos was a good exemple, pretty neat interresting flavorful rules in a battletome and now they will be fully removed) My biggest GIANT fear that makes me think it'll be true, it's the potential lazyness in rules writting team. Codexes get 4+ detachements and for chaos legions that have a very specific gameplays it could be easier to fit daemons. I still think it's possible to bring new things to "divided legions" and fit the gap but in a lazy/quick working perspective, it just feel too realistic. A Tzeentch book would be done so fast with detachements. 1 for everything, 1 for full dusty boys, 1 for full daemons, 1 for full tzaangor. It can be done so easily that is terrifying for a daemon boy like me. In other hand previously daemons was added in legions codexes and the daemon codex got those profiles copy-pasted so maybe they'll do a thing like that. I really hope the investments they did in making daemons way more appealing when they are actually supported are noticable for the money guys.
I play both Deathwatch and Daemons. I was the #1 ITC ranked Deathwatch player in my country for most of 2022. My last 40K event is in November. I'm done after this.
It would be strange for them to do this only a couple of years after releasing be’lakor and trying to make undivided daemons its own special theme rather than just soup of whatever is strong at the time from each god. It’ll be a real shame if this does happen as even having access to all gods daemons have a fairly straightforwards playstyle. A mono-khorne army e.g. which can only fight in one phase will be quite bland to play over and over.
It makes sense. Deamons have always been a "also ran" army for a while now. I find it wierd that deamons arent in every Chaos army list. from a lore perspective, i think they should be apart of all chaos armies in some way. Edit: I feel like the best thing would be to make them be able to have really good Ally rules. Add some synergy to each demon, so that there is a reason to ally every deamon model. or something. bump the ally % to 50% or something. Similar to the Agents of the Imperium.
@@fatarchon I feel like there should be much more Deamon presence in Chaos armies. Like, why do we have Havocs, then we already have Oblits? Oblits looks so much cooler and fit better in the lore imo. I would like much less regular stuff and more twisted things like accursed and possessed. It does suck for the pure Deamon players tho.
Eh be careful with that app! It's notorious for being wrong 😜 But, I don't play AoS so I don't have a clue how Belakor works with them. I always thought he only worked with StD though but I could be off
You missed the main reason why people are asking. Because no mono god chaos army has come out yet and we are half way through. You would have expected one. I think they will get rolled into the other mono gods. But a daemons codex will come out in addition. Then 11th who knows
We do have Emperor's Children in the near future! Then, hopefully, Dark Mechanicum (you best believe I'll mortgage my non-existant house for those guys)
Honestly just sounds like mass hysteria to me; 'Ermagerd, Derthwertch er derd', like shut up, Deathwatch were folded cuz they're barely played and have almost no unique kits to themselves (5 kits, 2 of which I've never seen on the board) compared to Dark Angels, Black Templars, etc. DW are still playable, maybe not as flavourful as before but what armies are this edition? Chaos Daemons aren't the most popular army, but they deffo have more of a following than DW and much more potential for a codex (my hopium is 6 detachments, 1 for each Chaos God and 2 generic, Warp Rifts and a Be'lakor flavoured one). Also, I wish they added Vashtorr to Chaos Daemons seeing as he is one...
With how long they are taking for codex. I'm really nervous they will just get rid of chaos deamons in 40k and leave them to AOS. The respective gods will get tied to the relative armies with unique god units and all the AOS models will not be part of 40k anymore. Next summer they will release a big chaos wave with EC, DG, TS, and WE getting more models and chaos deamons will be no more. Leaving room to have vashtorr split off to his own dark mech army for 11th with deamon engines. As far as I can tell deamons are the only aos models used in 40k that are not proxy. GW will want to separate them eventually like every other AOS army. I think their messy "fix" will be allowing aos demons for awhile until armies have a full range.
Why don’t they just keep them with their own army but they could also integrate them with other armies but with different rules for those rather than using the ally system
I doubt daemons will be deathwatch'd. Like you said, too many models for those nice dollar bills. I'm going speculate that the 11th edition launch box will be chaos daemons vs black templar or something.
Honestly as someone who plays all the Chaos Marine factions but has 3,000 points of demons I really would prefer that they split them up. I also play a lot of AOS and it just works better in that game, and demons has never felt like it's been a proper force It always feels like four armies in a trenchcoat. With proper rules and balancing they would help flesh out the other rosters too.
Getting "Deathwatched" is the phrase we're going with? Like now that it happens to the special baby-boy Space Marines, we coined the phrase? Like it didnt happen to the Harlequins who ruled over 9th edition and have the most impactful lore in the setting? unreal.
I know my opinion isnt a popular one but if they did make god codexes id be happy, ive wanted to play a real tzeentch soup or khorne soup for a while now
Nothing wrong with having your own preferences! It's been enlightening to see some of the counter arguments to how I feel about it so I appreciate you sharing your own thoughts. Seems like the main thing people are really clamoring for is army bonuses for running Daemons + another Chaos faction. Hopefully that's something they can fix with detachments so everyone ends up happy, that's something I want too, but who knows we'll have to wait & see :)
Hmmm, idk they seem insanely popular in my experience, especially for new players. But you're right they definitely get some hate too lol They're such a cool part of 40k though, it'd be a sad, sad day to see their own books go away
I've been seeing some rumors about the Daemons Codex flying around / have had people ask me about it directly so I figured I'd address it head on & let you all know my thoughts on the situation. I'd love to hear what you guys have to say about it though, whether you agree with me or not!
Now.. Let's just hope GW doesn't make me eat my words a few months from now 😜
Just make different detachments for each god
That's my ideal, and maybe one for undivided
Remember how that turned out for nurgle in 9th?
I mean i just won a game with all nurgle, i know they would suck but i just like to mix it up. I don’t really care how strong it is if i have at least one or two good detachments and all of them are at least fun to play.
I think you’re right in that this would completely kill the sales of a lot of daemons. I don’t think the resin models going away is a concern, almost every army has lost their resin models
Epoidemius and other resin models disapered from webstore a while ago, and in sigmar they dont have rules
Yeah I agree with both of you, every army has been culled this edition so it's nothing special. Fingers crossed they're rescultping Epi + the Heralds
think it would be cool if they did like they did with the GK and Sister Squads we will get in the upcoming Agents codex.
so have their own codex, BUT also have Nurgle Daemons in the DG codex, Khorne Daemons in WE codex and so on.
in that way the Daemons can benefit from their codex while bein run with them.
Thats what will happen imo.
Maybe a way how GW could make this without breaking undivided daemons is to still give them their own codex but when mono god worshippers like world eaters codexes come out they get a detachment to soup in their God’s daemons.
We’ve seen this with the Gene stealer cult codex with a detachment (Brood brothers) that lets you soup in guard and even give benefits for it.
That’s the wishful thinking I have and the most consumer friendly outcome where no player gets screwed over but have more options for armies. We’ll see I suppose but I’m hope for the best.
This is almost exactly how I think they could / should do it too, just give everyone Daemon-centered detachments in their own books while keeping the Undivided Daemons as it's own option & EVERYONE wins. Heck the ultra simple way would be to put a detachment into the Daemons codex that says ~"can mix 1k of so-and-so army & they get this rule"
Seems the biggest complaint for people who want them added to their Chaos army is that they don't benefit from their army rules & this seems like the simplest fix
PS: I'm not sure if I ever mentioned it before but I find it hilarious I've always called you "Fired Owa" when it's really "Fired Iowa". Just so you know, I'm still going to call you Owa though mwhaha. I need to do another livestream though, miss getting to dick around with you guys 😎
I think the allies rule is fine in concept. It requires Daemons being balanced against the Traitor Legions or you'll just see Traitor Legion players min-maxing and end up with more PBs than PMs.
2nd, and 3rd editions were really bad as far as Daemons in csm books. Daemons were vastly inferior in 2nd (i remember a game where an IG sergeant killed a Bloodthirster in melee. But in 3rd edition csm when the 3.5 codex came out (GW actually released 2 csm codexes in 3rd edition) it had rules for all 9 traitor Legions and the balance was so bad that the 3.5 csm codex was more or less Codex Daemons Lite
I think the success of Be'lakor and undivided makes me think they wouldn't do it. The fact that we've had rules support in balance updates and stuff makes me feel its totally different to the deathwatch situation
Agreed, I think if they wanted to do something like this it's most likely that they'd just start including daemons in the codexes of the CSM legions in addition to a daemon codex. Lord of change in thousand sons and in daemons. Extra sales for GW
Daemon player here since Chaos Daemons rules were in a mini booklet in a white dwarf, I'll be pissed off if I have to buy 4 codexs and I have to have a PURE solo god force...
Same here man, I *really* don't foresee it happening but my god the backlash would be enormous
Not that gw cares but i immediately sell all my models and quit lol
if these rumours are true, then it'd essentially mean no one will be able to play Slaanesh daemons until the end of the edition-
unless it comes out early ish
My only army...
The only thing I’ll say is I don’t want Demons to get shattered into the four gods. It works in AoS because Demons are half the army. But in 40k, it’s CSM with Demons sprinkled in. I think it’s dumb they can’t soup better, but I like mixing demons together. It’s my favorite thing
Same here! Undivided Daemons have been one of my absolute favorite armies I've ever played, legit I'd be heartbroken if they ever tried to axe them. I'm not worried though, the majority of people seem to share our pov & I would hope GW would be aware of it (though they do love their rug pulls lol)
This. Daemons are way more prevalent in AoS and Old World than they are in 40k.
People forget though that there are ENTIRE demon worlds outside of the Eye. So a pure demon army makes as much sense as the Legions do.
I think the biggest issue is that outside of the Heresy novels there are way more books involving demons in the AoS/Old World BL novels than in 40k novels
With how the Lore potrays the Chaos in conflict with eachother
Aren't there too much Undivided Daemons?
Also Chaos outside the 4 Gods & The Chaos Space Marine get shit'ed on
Someone remembers that Abadon's Sword isn't just a Cool Sword but also his own Character?
What about the Minor Chaos Gods that (supposedly) aren't completely affiliated with The Major Chaos Gods?
What's going on with The Daemon King?
What about Malal/Malice?
And i think i could go on, but more than splitting the Chaos Gods in each of their own Codexes (which in my opinion wouldn't erase or undermine Chaos Undivided) i want a Chaos Independent Codex (dedicated to the Chaos outside the Main 4 Chaos Gods)
Agreed, one of the biggest reasons I play daemons is because random daemon soup is fun. I don't want them to be isolated into single gods ever. Never ever!
@aleanddragonITA Soooo unalined chaos spacemarines? Or just unalined daemons? Separating non god users would be a big money sink and We use to have lots of the random daemons for hire but GW deleted them from the books.
Heck, not everyone can even get chaos spawn anymore which is lame.
Admittedly I just want a reliable way of making combined armies, which I think can be achieved without removal of daemons as an army. But that really applies to most of the chaos armies, not just CSM and daemons.
I agree, I'd love to be able to do a "full mixed" Chaos army that just has some of whatever I want from whatever Chaos army. I agree to that it wouldn't require removing their own Codex or anything like that either. Right now we have the ally rules but even a supplement or just a special detachment in the Daemon Codex would solve that (imho!)
But yeah one of my favorite things about Chaos is/was how easy it was to ally them with each other; but I'm huge on Undivided so putting them into the other armies books wouldn't work for me
If they get Death Watched, I'll be pissed off. An army I've loved for 4 years and have over 5k points of getting screwed, so now I've got to either make 4 new chaos marine army's or start a new army.
I don't think it's gonna happen at all though. There not the most popular faction but they ain't exactly disliked
I feel like this rumor came around since 4th edition when daemons got their first book
I hope I don’t have to mix my Deamons with chaos space marines… I do not like space marines.
I'd like to be able to add more deamons in with my world eaters but that's because we have a limited range of marines to work with in the first place
@@highflyfishing agreed.....
I play demons because I am sick of marines. Demons have the best ranges of models imo.
Spoilpox Scrivener is gone from the store as an individual model, but he's included in the Nurgle AoS Spearhead box, so that might be why
Yeah I've thought about it & considering how (relatively) new his model is + it being plastic it'd be odd for them to ditch him. Maybe we'll get a Nurgle themed Combat Patrol eventually?
This rumor been around since 6th edition. No way is it happening.
As much as Be'lakor has been in recent lore messing with Vashtor, its definitely not happening.
I think they're actually pretty popular in theory; the problem is that they're very expensive to collect, even for Warhammer. Every greater daemon and Be'lakor will cost you $168 each.
I will say one issue that daemons has had for a while now is the difficulty to have a mono themed army. Back in 8th with the daemons boxes having different gods it was easier, but since 9th and then choosing Khorne as the face of the army it has been hard for nurdle friends like me and slaanesh guys like my buddy to have a mono build army that doesn't feel self hamstrung. Breaking into the 4 god books would give it more cohesion as well as a newer more demonic way to play those respective armies. Maybe include some base units that aren't as niche like the greater daemons and core troops in regular can? I'm not sure. Really
These rumours sound like such a PR nightmare! Any product innovation strategy must consider the extent of risk associated with such a manoeuvre.
Here’s my theory, I think if anything - it should rest the minds of my fellow Chaos Daemon players.
There is a HEAVY emphasis on building a mixed daemon army. We see this in store when GW staff show a selection of daemons that connect to various chaos gods. We see this in the application provided by GW - there is a huge incentive on mixing your army. In fact, as a mono Slaanesh 40K player, staff have even recommended mixing that up whether that was a GW staff member or third party.
With this fact in mind, I return to the PR disaster these rumours allude to. Imagine the upset, the competitive lists affected - the sponsors or players GW would be upsetting. You even make a great point on the increasing popularity of this army too!
Sounds to me like a rogue idea gone mad. If they wanted to separate these armies - they wouldn’t have put such an emphasis on mixing daemons in the first place!
Totally agree & it definitely crossed my mind how GW is seeing all this themselves. The last thing you'd want is people hesitant to buy more models because they think they'll get "deathwatched" eventually. I doubt they'll address it directly but who knows, maybe the roadmap will shed some light on things soon
Hey @fatarchon! I hope the Daemons don't get phased out. That would gut chaos to an insane degree. In particular, I want to be able to run nurglings with my CSM raiders, cuz getting blitzed by genestealers made left me feeling helpless before I got the little gremlins ready for battle. Hope you're well and keep up the good work!
Same here man, half the reason I got so into the Chaos superfaction was being able to mix & match all my armies together. We already lost a boatload of customization with 9th edition, I'd be pissed if they made it even more strict 😜 Luckily I doubt that'll be the case but who knows with GW
I would be very very surprised if Daemons didn't get their own codex. I think people are completely overreacting to deathwatch not getting their own codex or acting like they've actually been axed. They're still playable as a space marine army with any of those detachments and they still get their own unique units unlike other more iconic space marine chapters.
I have often wondered about how mixed god daemons armies are supposed to function given "the great game" in the lore. If the gods are struggling for dominance, how come their servants are collaborating? But then again, how are Daemons of only one god supposed to win? I guess they have traitor marines to help them? Idk, but it sounds like it would piss off collectors, one way or another. If they do Deathwatch the Daemons, I think it's gonna make bigger waves than what we've seen so far.
I think it's partly handwaved in the lore with the whole "when there's a greater threat they'll come together!", but yeah it's definitely one of those cases of having to suspend our disbelief when Tzeentch & Nurgle come together on the tabletop to kill what amounts to maybe a platoon of Tau or something random like that. But hey, any excuse to run a mix of Daemons (or any models for that matter!) I can get behind hah
I don't believe GW is gearing up to do anything drastic with Daemons anytime soon but if they ever did I agree it'd have large repurcussions for the entire game. Tbh I think it'd kill sales for most Daemon kits which, anecdotally, seem to sell really well in my experience. I can't think of a single shop I've visited that didn't have a decent sized collection specifically for Daemons whereas I can't say the same for a lot of other armies
I’d not mind if they separated Deamons in to 4 separate books. So long as they unlocked the AoS models. But I currently only collect Tzeentch Deamons.
I was thinking about it after recording & the issue I see with the AoS models is that most of them wouldn't fit into 40k (none of the Mortals really work, they're all too medieval / fantasy imho). That said I would LOVE to get my hands on the ones that would fit the background, that lord of gluttony or whatever he's called is *chef's kiss*
Love my deamons. Was a tau and space marine players but just since 10th came out it’s by far my largest army.
Really hope they are getting their own codex, they deserve it as army and they’re such a huge part of 40K lore.
Ive said this elsewhere, but spliting daemons up and putting them with their god aligned legions would be bad for everyone but Deathguard imo, Tsons and World Eaters will probably get shafted on their ranges ( here's some daemons, your new wave is done for the next 3 editions), the Changeling already got nerfed because Tsons were souping it into our lists for a lone op so how would that work? Also for Tsons, how would horrors work for Cabal points, they'd either be useless or auto included for every list. Thats not even mentioning Belakor, where is he going? GW need to do MORE with chaos daemons not less, where are all our undivided daemons? Where are new daemons for each god that aren't named characters? Pls GW, dont merge daemons with the legions, do something with them instead
I think they would be just gone. Like you can't use aos in 40k. The god factions would be drip fed new 40k models like eightbound etc.
Also! I remember in a video you asked for some ideas for your channel - although the content you push out is amazing anyway!
I was wondering if you could maybe do a video dedicated to our daemon made lists - like I would love you to review my list, maybe weigh up the pros and cons of it, create suggestions or maybe even rate it! Like maybe it could start off as a video where you talk about some great mono/mixed lists and then you encourage myself and others to send in ours - could lead to another video to what I was originally saying! Let me know what you think man - love the content! 😂
That's a great idea tbh, lemme see what I can put together..
Been a Daemon fan since I started getting into 40K back in 2019. Had a hard time getting my Daemons of Slaanesh to work with The previous codex, but 10th edition? Everything's working a lot better now I'd say, and the objective number of tournament games win rate has backed that. As an army, they're doing really well right now, especially since they don't have to strictly stick to one Chaos God like they used to (for now) and part of that is the new update in the form of every daemon having deep strike. It's made the army very tricky for opponents to fight, especially if you set up your reserves carefully. In my eyes, there will be nothing funnier than dropping a Great unclean one in a choke point. XD "oh you thought you were going that direction?...nah" Plus with the recent rules update adding shadows of Chaos to all the greater demons, but only for their allegiance daemons (great unclean one gives shadows of Chaos for Nurgle, bloodthirster for Khorne ect.) has made the greater demons better, given them a more solid roll in the army, and with all the buffs they've been getting to their points costs, you can comfortably run at least one in a 1000 point army. Not getting a codex, especially when they're doing really well right now, seems like a very silly thing to do.
best case scenario for me is a 6 detachment book. Keep Their current, 1 for each mono god, and then a Disciples of Belakor, that gives you maximum chaos soup. Chaos ynnari detachment basically.
Great run down on the reasoning and logic. Well done mate
Thank you brother! I know it's a click baitey title / thumbnail but I wanted to give it a fair shake while also explaining why *I* don't believe it. Hopefully it'll assuage some fears out there
They should bring back some kind of summoning mechanic. Let you bring demons as a Chaos faction however you want, but make it uncertain and give it a cost until you succeed, like you have to assign a model already on the board to summon with a penalty if it's not their Chaos god and you can't place the demon(s) until that model rolls a 7+ or something, but you can bring the demons in turn 2 regardless from your deployment zone only and within some distance of their summoner. But then also stop nerfing demons all the time in other ways. Just my thought.
I'd love that too tbh, it was something we could do for the majority of editions & was always really fun / fluffy imho. It'd take some careful balancing though, if the units still cost full price most people would prolly skip them whereas if they were free they'd get overused.
But yeah it's a fun mechanic that I wouldn't mind seeing again. Heck even if it was a slightly underpowered I'd be down
Well as a Chaos space marine/ DG/ TS/ WE player i would like to see them combined with my armies, i have a bunch of daemons that would perfectly fit with my heretic astartes armies, but they should also get a codex chaos daemons too, because the Csm like the Word Bearrers should be able to draw units from every possible god.. In addition Daemons are a single faction that can ally with the marines for so many years and editions, many people would want to play them as a single army... If they get into heretic astartes armies where would Belakor go ?? he's undivided.
If, and its a big if, they do combine Daemons into God specific armies then; if they have mechanics and strategies that are usable in the competitive side.
Good example would be how 5th edition marks and daemons interacted. IE MoN with Epidemis
I think something like an old Army of Renown for Be'lakor and a Chaos Undivided daemons army will always exist, but it would be my preference for Mono-God daemons to move support into the Cult Legion books. We had Disciples of the Red Angel for World Eaters last edition, and the Thousand Sons are known for learning the true names of daemons and binding them to service. There's really not a lot of different ways the Cult legions would thematically play as separate detachments, and adding a Brood Brothers-style detachment to run half-Marines/half-Daemons in a way that integrates rules is something I'd love.
Or maybe the best way to look at it is how they're doing Agents of the Imperium, as a single book that's including better ways to use its content as Allies. I just know that I want better synergy between including Pink/Blue Horrors or a Lord of Change/Kairos in a Tsons army that goes beyond just the raw datasheet. World Eaters, too, there's gaps in the model range that existing daemons would perfectly fill. Khorne Hounds as skirmishers, Bloodcrushers as cavalry, Rendmaster buffing WE melee would be insane, Skullcannons as good thematic shooting...idk. i want that. I just also don't want GW to screw over people that already have big daemons collections.
I was discussing this today with a friend who asked me if I was afraid of this happening and I told him I'd be pretty okay with it if it happened. So basically I have a bunch of daemons. I hate space marines in general but Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Emperor's Children and World Eaters have some sick models that I actually like especially the daemon primarchs. But if I want to start, say a death guard army, I need 1500pts of new models because I can only use 500pts of daemons right now in a DG army. If they split chaos daemons and put them with the space marine legions, presumably they'd remove the limit on how many daemons you can run in your army, so I could basically just get the models I really like from each faction, like maybe 500pts of each, and associating them with 1500pts of daemons from each god I'd potentially have four fresh armies. I could tolerate that on the condition that we get some of the terribly cool AoS models because oh man those are sick.
That being said, two things. First, my main wish is that daemons stay exactly as they are right now for as long as possible, I kind of wish for the codex to be far away because the balance dataslate has finally made them good and opened so many new lists not revolving systematically around Be'lakor. Second, given the infuriatingly high price of models, I would normally not be very happy about GW forcing me to buy even 500pts of new models to be allowed to play my other models that I already have. But since I have a 3D printer, f them.
4th edition was when Daemons got their own codex.
I started playing in late 5th with Daemons as my first army, and oh boy was that codex wonky.
People just flat out didn't believe the rules worked the way they did.
For anyone wondering.
To deploy, you divided your army in half as equally as possible and prayed to the dark gods for guidance. Your entire army started in deep strike and you picked half to drop in turn 1.
On a d6 roll of 4+ the half you picked came in. On 1-3, it was the other half.
Flamers melted tanks. They wounded anything on a 4+ to wound with no Armour saves.
Bloodletters were 18pts each and their swords completely ignored Armour.
Kairos Fateweaver granted a 3+ invulnerable save to everyone around him.
Fateweaver also had a 3+ rerollable invulnerable save that if you failed that, you had to roll to see if he ran off the board.
Nothing had psychic powers, they were "gifts" that worked like witchfires, which was the biggest bone of contention.
@@KokNoker
LMAO that is whack. Old School 40k was a trip!
I have a theory that GW will do something similar to the new Agents of Imperium. Daemons will get their own codex for undivided /soup factions, but that they will also get the added the single god dedicated factions like in AOS. Best of both worlds.
It was around 7th edition because of the Khorne Deaemonkin Codex. We literally had Khorne CSM+Daemon in a single codex, we just expected this to be followed by the other Gods, which never came.
It seems like they floated this out in 9th edition with the WE codex. Remember that they only had 2 sub-factions, classic WE and WE+Daemons. It seems like the main hurdle for not doing this sooner was the lack of WE and EC as standalone factions, but that seems like it will be resolved soon.
As for undivided daemons, it would be simplest to let the index remain playable for full-daemon armies. CSM has its own book with daemon allies, the dedicated chaos factions are rolled in with their respective daemons, likely with one detachment dedicated to daemons, and undivided get to keep their index detachment.
The other path would be a GSC-style ally detachment in the dedicated chaos factions. An overrule to the 25% rule to allow them to take more daemons allies. But that rule seems pretty bad in GSC, considering the allies don't interact with the army rules at all. While this feels like the safest option, it also seems like the least interesting.
Honestly if they Finally just did a full "one God per book" like AOS I would love it, and honestly I really can't tell much of a difference from that and rolling them into the associated space marine codex's outside of like what angle you look at it from, like if all the nurgle demons and deathguard are in the same book that is the nurgle book weather they wanna call it deathguard or Chaos: Nurgle
They are gonna make detachments right? Im guessing its gonna be one codex with one detachment for each god, but also one or two undivided detachments.
That's my assumption too, heck if they want to get fancy they can put in a detachment for bringing Mortals along
@@fatarchon Yeah that would be great! Something akin to the disciples of belakor from 9th. Lotsa possibilities!
This rumour has been around in one form or another for a few editions. And all the chat online is just self replication.
I think it would be odd for them to split up chaos daemons if only because it sabotages their scheme to get a bit more money out of fans looking to go from 40K into AoS.
I’m a new player who’s gotten into the hobby via daemons. My mixed gods army consists of units from 5 different AoS factions. If I were to try and pick up AoS, GW has made it so I realistically have to start from scratch even though my whole army is comprised entirely of models that can be played in both games. If they force people to go mono god then anyone who plays chaos daemons in 40K would be able to port their army over to AoS without having to spend a dime. I think the big reason for the way AoS is currently set up is to make it so it’s really difficult to have an army that is legal in both systems.
I don’t know, it just doesn’t make sense to me. Like if they want to allow the various csm factions to be allowed to play daemons they can do that without having to delete daemons as a faction. It’s what they do for daemon princes, every faction has access to them for their own army.
The whole thing sounds like drama baiting rumor nonsense. A spicy rumor to spark fear in people like myself who are now wondering if the hundreds I spent are at risk of going up in smoke unless I’m willing to fork over a couple thousand to actually play with all the stuff I own.
GW might make bad decisions, but they’re decisions rooted in making money. I just don’t see how this actually makes money in any fashion.
Think it will simply be the separate detachments with the base one being the undivided one which is fine imo
I can't say I think this will happen but it would probably mean the daemons of each god alignment would actually get enhancements, army, and detachment rules when played with their respective cult marines and I want that very bad for daemons in general, greatly expanding good mono-god options. That said, I would prefer they still get their own codex focused on undivided while each cult marine codex also included them in their roster, so that's the place you play them as mono god.
I've got around 1000pt of tzeentch demons ATM; these rumours as well as the culling of the age of Sigmar range makes me reluctant to start picking up any other gods' demons just in case they say I can't mix and match.
That's a big reason why I wanted to get this video out, I hate the thought people are holding off on expanding their collections because of what's only rumors atm. Even if it does happen I don't see it happening in 10th, maaaaybe 11th but even then I wouldn't be surprised if they consolidated a bunch of armies (I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't either though 😜)
NOVA is end of August. Hopefully then we'll get a codex roadmap for the rest of the edition. So far they followed the first roadmap as far as release order.
I am 99.999% certain Codex:Daemons will be on that roadmap alongside the 4 traitor Legions codexes.
If you like Daemons I would just buy more. Assuming the Daemons codex is a standalone codex it's not coming in 2024. My prediction is Aeldari, BA, Drukhari, and either IG or SW the remainder of this year though we COULD get Daemons late this year. GK already confirmed in 2025.
Maybe a GK/Daemon starter box
Fair enough, thanks for the reply guys.
My AOS army is bonesplitterz so I feel a little burned.
Oh man, yeah wtf with Bonesplitterz! I almost picked up their boxset when they got released & now they're already rolled into Orcs (or however GW did it)
I want to start a death guard army, but I also want to mix in nurgle daemons, but I don't want to lose anything for doing it, so I kinda want the rumor to be real. I'm new to 40k table top, but Death Guard and Nurgle Daemons sound like such a fun army.
IMO the only reason they would do that, is to try and limit the number of armies so that it’s easier to balance
They need to stop releasing new armies then.
Give Daemons a good allies rule to compel the Traitor Legions to want to take them without their Daemon counterparts overshadowing them
As a Tsons player I hope the God books are true. Tsons' codex has a lot of artificial bloat because of our army rule for the last two editions. Cabal points are so flavorful, but because pretty much only sorcerers generate them, we can't run ANYTHING that doesn't say cabal somewhere on the datasheet without losing a chunk of our power. If Tzeentch daemons were rolled into the codex and were given the proper tags, they could be a massive help. Ik that many WE players also are upset by their lack of models, so it could help them while they wait for the (hopefully) second half of their release.
I think we'd need some sort of index added for Chaos Undivided under Belakor, but I feel like that is acceptable and appropriate.
Fat Archon can you make a new chaos tournament list after all the nerfs? Especially since they nerfed warp talons into the dirt
I've been meaning to actually, no promises but I'll see what I can do! I've been running a nasty Soulforged List that's something like 7W 1L atm that'd be fun to share
This would be weird, they've spent the past few years finally phasing out old sculpts only to Squat them?
Exactly, yeah I don't buy those rumors either. Besides GWs been trying to simplify things & adding another 4 different books / complicating other Codices with Daemons doesn't mesh into that at all
I don't know...hmm...so basically my Tzeentch daemons will either be able to 1)take other gods daemons as allies in the current 40k datacards,
Or 2) be able to take tzangor & cultists if they get subsumed (again) into thousand sons or get a pure Tzeentch book like aos.
It feels more fun sacrificing mortals than other daemons, but other daemons have more tactical options.
Fyi aren't Kairic acolytes basically just cultists of Tzeentch?
I’ve been playing for 1.5 years seriously and my pile of units that don’t have data sheets anymore is way too big. Any hint of this kind of thing and it’s enough to freeze all buying for gameplay reasons. That said, I don’t really like the way chaos demons and chaos are currently. I think keep the daemons and CSM factions and implement shared CSM/demon detachments (maybe 1 per book).
11:55 not to mention Epidemius was even put in legends for the new AOS codex
Yeah someone brought this to my attention earlier, breaks my 'lil heart I love that man!
Daemons came out as a standalone codex in 4th edition. I remember when Daemons and CSM were in same book. Internal balance was so bad that the most competitive armies were 90% Daemons (there was no such thing as a ratio). You had max of 6 Troop units and Plaguebearers were better than Plague Marines and so you had "Deathguard" armies with 0 Plague Marines.
And other weird list building nonsense. Fateweaver had a 3++ save. He hit like a pillow in melee but his psychic might was ridiculous. He won me plenty of games nearly by himself.
I agree with you about the Daemons thing. I trust Reddit as much as I trust the CIA. This rumor been around since 6th edition. Just wishlisting by people who were butthurt back then about CSM actually having to take Marines in their Traitor "Marine" armies. 😅😅😅
So I was **into** 40k in 3rd but didn't play at all, but I always get confused - was 4th edition even a thing? I know there was "3.5", is that the same as 4th?
Aw to reminisce though, I remember some of the broken builds for Daemons too but from ~6th-7th. 2++ rr1's Screamerstars or infinite Daemon summons. Good times... /s
Edit: for the last part of your comment, what really drives me up the wall is people who don't even play Daemons trying to hype it up. Gah that makes me angry hah
@@fatarchon 4th did have a CSM codex and Daemons got split off in 4th. 3.5 codex was an experiment of sorts. I started collecting a "WE" army with 3.5 because my generic CSM army was Khorne heavy and I was hyped that my Berserkers and Khorne marked models had rules other than more attacks than undivided legionnaires.
4th rolled everything back together again but separated the demons. Lots of CSM players hated 3.5 codex. I hated 4th csm because it neutered my 90% khorne csm army. I sold my csm and built up my demons army
Emperor's Child prolly won't have that many models, World Eaters is a terribly small codex, Thousand Suns and Deathguard is fairly limited too, they could mono-god them...
You know, that's a fair point you make there! It'd be a simple bandaid for GW but tbh I think their players would end up hating it too if it meant they didn't get new kits
@@fatarchon everybody wants new toyz. I want datasheets to be accessible to as many faction as it makes sense, we just need a megacodex, maybe online and free
Personally I do not enjoy, playing undivided armies and did not like the 9th edition deamons codex at all. I only really enjoy khorne. I would not be shocked or angry if they split them up like in AoS because I prefer it personally. I adored Khorne deamonkin in seventh for the same reasons. 10th deamon index is frankly a massive step up from 9th imo but it is generic and boring.
I personally want my khorne deamons to benefit from rules made specifically for them (Blood tithe) which I think would make balancing easier as you can write more flavorful, crazy rules when you heavily control what units those rules can apply to.
I agree the frame work is not really in place for it as things stand as undivided would be pretty neutered but I can easily see a world where the gods get split and each book has 4-5 detachments with a detachment specifically for deamons, 1 for mortals, two that encourages a combination and potentially some wildcard wacky detachment.
Kirioth all but confirmed the rumors and his whispers are super accurate since I started playing. If GW does this it would be a great waay to garantee ill never buy a demon model again. I personally would love each God having their own codex, with a big wave of new demon models for each.
What's a Kirioth?
Another RUclipsr! If I'm not mistaken he mainly does model range reviews & touches on the news, those sort of things
Nothing is "all but confirmed" until it comes from GW. This rumor is 12 years old. It will be a rumor in 3 more years when 11th edition releases.
Not saying GW won't DW the demons but lets be real: demons are 1000x more popular than DW are. DW saw a spike by metachasers early on because they were busted to hell. Since the latest balance dataslate they have been collecting dust for the metachasers.
Splitting the demons amongst the Legions is a bad business decision (not saying GW isn't capable of that). A new codex with even a SINGLE new unit generates lots of hype. The GDs are what sell the demons.
Too many demon players with multiple god demon armies would buy 0 new demons or a Legion codex to only play part of their army. Mono demon armies are possible in AoS but not everyone wants to play AoS.
By keeping demons separate from their Legion allies it forces Legion players to buy the demon codex if they want to ally in demons (assuming they don't pirate said publication or use Wahapedia) and of course buy the Legion codex. So 1 book vs 2 but the extra codex being sold to Legion players isn't going to generate the sales figures that selling more demons will. Not to mention more new and existing players are going to be compelled to buy more demons if we can mix and match like current codex.
I have 4k of mixed demons. I have 0k of Legion marines. When the demon codex releases I will resume collecting. If the demons get rolled into Legions I will buy 0 more demons and maybe even sell them because if I wanted to play Legions I would have started in 8th edition with DG
@@fateweaver9844 the double codex thing isn’t a point I’ve seen brought up, and that makes a lot of sense. The money head will surely have thought of that outcome keeping them separate.
I agree it seems more and more unlikely, what with the rumor being decades old and all that. But, if they did do it, I would certainly never buy demons models because I would have lost interest in them as a faction, that’s gone then. I hope they don’t do it
@@SumsieBun Same. If they ever DW Daemons I'll trade them off or sell
I want Daemons to still be able to demon blob in all flavors but damn would I love if they simply got the buffs of thier allied factions (DG, WE, Tsons and EP) so they can have some more impact and flavor instead of being allies and not having an army rule when played. A Great Unclean One *doesnt* get to emit an aura of filth and decay in DG? Why? The GUO and Beasts of Nurgle for my DG army is what will get me to get into a Daemon Army and I would hate to see Daemons it go away altogether bc Belakor is a SICK model.
But I am just a casual and dont know all the intricacies of balance.
If they're gonna split it each to their CSM chapter i only hope to EC get their army this edition
I think we'll get EC this edition but it might be near the end. I'm wondering if they'll have, like, a "winter of Chaos" or something & bust out all the new kits / codices / etc then release EC last as the topper
also if you compare them to Deathwatch one has an index detachment, one doesnt, one got major updates in the past few balance dataslates and one got nothing. They wouldnt put forth this much effort just to can the codex
Both DW and daemons had indexes.
Actually I think I like the idea of 3ed and 4th edition where the Daemon is part of csm codex where you need a deamon host to summon the greater Daemon . 😊
I love Spoilpox Scrivener! Managed to track one down and just finished painting him, so I'll be pissed if he gets dropped from 40k, especially during 10th. He's still in the AoS Vanguard box, which is annoying even for AoS players who want to buy him separately, but it's even worse for 40k players because half of those models are AoS only. GW's business decisions seem completely unhinged sometimes, so who knows.
I think it would be cool if the mono god legions could have them in their codex but daemons in general still having their own codex.
There is no shot GW don't give them a codex but what could and should happen id that their codex into something close to the imperial agent codex where a heavy emphasis to souping with other chaos armies is pushed.
It would be weird. Theres still a lot of codexs to come out so deamons is prohably up soon.
I'm hoping not as I've just started a daemon army lol
On the brightside there would be some *fire* ebay deals going on if they ever went through with it 😈lol nah I really don't see it happening so don't worry man!
Same here!! 😂
@@fatarchon im not especially worried. I just commissioned a Karios and have no interest in started a TSons army lol
in second ed they were own codex, and in 3rd from how many editions they fall under chaos.
Even of demon fans as they point out, its 4 incomplete armys that dont quite hesh together mixed together into one army.
I don't think daemons will be deathwatch'ed, but still they may be build-in their god-allaign codexes. Like, it's one of the easiest ways for GW to create new detachments for DG, WE, TS and EC, and it will make daemons players to buy 2 books ( just to play undivided daemon lists and mono-god with unique army rules and detachments)
That's a great point & something I fully agree with. All these changes could be done with a simple detachment, whether in the main Daemon Codex or the respective Chaos armies, they don't have to split up the Undivided option to do that!
I really hope they don't do this. I'm starting to get into Warhammer and have invested into a Chaos Daemons army. I love the ability to mix daemons and my favorite army is Khorne + Tzeentch. I feel that most daemon players love the customizability of the faction as it is, which would make GW lose sales long-term if they did separate them. I can think of many reasons why they would NOT do this and maybe a couple (not super concrete) reasons they would split up daemons. Daemons are 1. popular as they are and 2. generally liked by players as they are. One slight nerf to Be'Lakor is the only real change I would make if they really want to incentivize players to play more mono-god or duo-god armies.
Honestly, for me personally I'd actually be fine with them being split up cause I play mono slaanesh daemons, Hedonites in Aos, and want to get Emp's Children. It would hopefully mean they get more depth for each mono god's rules as Daemons often feels like 4 seperate armies in one. That said, with how much it would negatively impact so many people's collections I don't think it's worth it right now
What I'd prefer they do right now is make detachments similar to the Brood Brothers ones in the GSC codex. Make a detachment in World Eaters called Khorne Daemonkin for example that lets you take 50% daemons and give them access to Blessings of Khorne, have all the strategems work off just the Khorne keyword rather than World Eaters, and make aura abilities on things like Angron and the Bloodthirsters key off the Khorne keyword too. Then you could have really cool monogod support in the new codexes
Back on my day Chaos marines, daemons and rules for all 9 of the original heresy legions were all in one codex and it was art!!!👴👴👴
The only one I'd be okay with is if they break them off into the individual gods codexes, Ive been arguing for years that each god needs more units to flesh them out.
I’d love if demons would be split between the gods from one stand point more models with be produced so as a korne lover I don’t want to buy anything that’s not korne I want korne only models for my demon army but when you do that it leaves me with few options unlike my world eater army or god forbid my nid collection
I would honestly really enjoy daemons going into the codex for the god specific legions. Why should a bloodthirster not get the blessings of khorne in world eaters or GUOs not spread the plague of Nurgle?
Should keep them as they are and if you run death guard, world eaters, thousand suns and * emperor's children* those deamon units should be in their codexs like 8th with none of rule breaking they did in 8th.
If demons are getting deathwatch'd, I think it'll be next edition. If you do it this edition, you don't really have anywhere for Be'lakor to go since the CSM codex is already out, but next edition, I tihnk it'd be plausible they split CSM into CSM and The Lost and the Damned, where Be'lakor could have his own detachment.
I don't know, I don't think they are getting squatted, but maybe rolled in. Daemons are in a good place generally speaking but the models never get updated and they kinda need it. It also seemed that regardless of GW, they seem to do well. It does make me super hesitant to want to buy into them again. Edit: wanted to add, they can't produce the books for armies they have now, there are too many and they are too slow to release, so they aren't getting their own books for each god.
Prediction: chaos daemons will stay for 10th, split in 11th
Why: the army rules for the monogod marines are largely written and they’re not going to go back and retcon them. They may fine tune them (like they did for space marines or Custodes) but the basic mechanic is in the bag. And that doesn’t play well with the daemons much.
I suspect that 11th edition will bring monogod armies because….
1. They can rework army rules to play well each other (marine vs daemon)
2. All 4 monogod legions should have a codex - we basically know emperor children are coming this edition as a new army
3. It would follow the AoS model
4. It provides a place for the undivided ones to go
That’s my belief without data beyond what I laid out.
I hope they get a big support wave this edition if that’s not going to be the case though.
personally as a world eaters player, id LOVE to have khorne daemons rolled into my dex. i love all things khorne, and i would love nothing more than to be able to take daemons without them being a liability due to not benefiting from my army rules. or at the very least id love to have a detachment like the brood brothers one the GSC got.
I predict Daemons getting their codex first and then having a rule similar to IA where World Eaters at 2k could take X amount of Characters and/or X amount of Batteline units.
It forces WE players to play WE and not Khorne Daemons with some WE thrown in for "flavor".
Lore wise the Word Bearers have the most Daemon allies among the Legions
$160 for a greater daemon is that shit that makes me think ill never end up coming back
I would be ecstatic if they made nurgle as its own 40k army as a new player ( I only ever played fantasy / AOS) Although I just started building khorne daemons to mix with my nurgle to make a daemons army
You can do that with the current Codex! 😎 Once we get detachments we can specialize them even more (but I get what you're saying, an entire book of stuff just for Nurgle!)
11:57 I play AoS. All of those models were added to their brand new 4th edition Index. I think they’re gonna get a refresh with new AoS Battle tomes (codexes)
Interesting!! Appreciate the heads up because yeah, the characters are half of what makes Daemons so special. Do you know if Epidemius was mentioned?
@@fatarchonEpidemius got sent to legends for AOS 4.
Nooooo!
Not happening in 10th. Not enough khorne units for pure khorne Daemons codex and no way in hell are Daemons being folded into the Legion codexes. Daemons as a standalone army are way too popular. GW would actually lose money doing that
Lbf, demons should just go back to what they originally were. Part of codex chaos as summons/ auxiliary forces to fill holes
I my personnal opinion I wouldn't like to see daemons being splitted as from the 9th codex we got pretty well suported. Even If for me that codex wasn't the best it was a massive step in the good direction, in addition the actual index improved that. It isn't the best codex but once again an other step in the good direction (but in aos beast of chaos was a good exemple, pretty neat interresting flavorful rules in a battletome and now they will be fully removed)
My biggest GIANT fear that makes me think it'll be true, it's the potential lazyness in rules writting team. Codexes get 4+ detachements and for chaos legions that have a very specific gameplays it could be easier to fit daemons. I still think it's possible to bring new things to "divided legions" and fit the gap but in a lazy/quick working perspective, it just feel too realistic.
A Tzeentch book would be done so fast with detachements. 1 for everything, 1 for full dusty boys, 1 for full daemons, 1 for full tzaangor. It can be done so easily that is terrifying for a daemon boy like me.
In other hand previously daemons was added in legions codexes and the daemon codex got those profiles copy-pasted so maybe they'll do a thing like that. I really hope the investments they did in making daemons way more appealing when they are actually supported are noticable for the money guys.
I play both Deathwatch and Daemons. I was the #1 ITC ranked Deathwatch player in my country for most of 2022. My last 40K event is in November. I'm done after this.
It would be strange for them to do this only a couple of years after releasing be’lakor and trying to make undivided daemons its own special theme rather than just soup of whatever is strong at the time from each god. It’ll be a real shame if this does happen as even having access to all gods daemons have a fairly straightforwards playstyle. A mono-khorne army e.g. which can only fight in one phase will be quite bland to play over and over.
It makes sense. Deamons have always been a "also ran" army for a while now. I find it wierd that deamons arent in every Chaos army list. from a lore perspective, i think they should be apart of all chaos armies in some way. Edit: I feel like the best thing would be to make them be able to have really good Ally rules. Add some synergy to each demon, so that there is a reason to ally every deamon model. or something. bump the ally % to 50% or something. Similar to the Agents of the Imperium.
In a way they already are with the ally rules but I get what you're saying!
@@fatarchon I feel like there should be much more Deamon presence in Chaos armies. Like, why do we have Havocs, then we already have Oblits? Oblits looks so much cooler and fit better in the lore imo. I would like much less regular stuff and more twisted things like accursed and possessed. It does suck for the pure Deamon players tho.
I really worry for Chaos Knights if they lose all their allies as well!
If you look at the Chaos armies for AoS, they all have access to Belakor at the moment. Will it change? Idk, I just know what I see on the app.
Eh be careful with that app! It's notorious for being wrong 😜 But, I don't play AoS so I don't have a clue how Belakor works with them. I always thought he only worked with StD though but I could be off
What app are you looking at? Only StD have access to Belakor, at least with the 4th edition AoS app from GW. 😅😅
You missed the main reason why people are asking. Because no mono god chaos army has come out yet and we are half way through. You would have expected one.
I think they will get rolled into the other mono gods. But a daemons codex will come out in addition.
Then 11th who knows
We do have Emperor's Children in the near future! Then, hopefully, Dark Mechanicum (you best believe I'll mortgage my non-existant house for those guys)
Honestly just sounds like mass hysteria to me;
'Ermagerd, Derthwertch er derd', like shut up, Deathwatch were folded cuz they're barely played and have almost no unique kits to themselves (5 kits, 2 of which I've never seen on the board) compared to Dark Angels, Black Templars, etc.
DW are still playable, maybe not as flavourful as before but what armies are this edition? Chaos Daemons aren't the most popular army, but they deffo have more of a following than DW and much more potential for a codex (my hopium is 6 detachments, 1 for each Chaos God and 2 generic, Warp Rifts and a Be'lakor flavoured one).
Also, I wish they added Vashtorr to Chaos Daemons seeing as he is one...
With how long they are taking for codex. I'm really nervous they will just get rid of chaos deamons in 40k and leave them to AOS. The respective gods will get tied to the relative armies with unique god units and all the AOS models will not be part of 40k anymore. Next summer they will release a big chaos wave with EC, DG, TS, and WE getting more models and chaos deamons will be no more. Leaving room to have vashtorr split off to his own dark mech army for 11th with deamon engines. As far as I can tell deamons are the only aos models used in 40k that are not proxy. GW will want to separate them eventually like every other AOS army. I think their messy "fix" will be allowing aos demons for awhile until armies have a full range.
I think it will be one book 5 detachments. 4 mono and the index one revamped
Why don’t they just keep them with their own army but they could also integrate them with other armies but with different rules for those rather than using the ally system
I doubt daemons will be deathwatch'd. Like you said, too many models for those nice dollar bills. I'm going speculate that the 11th edition launch box will be chaos daemons vs black templar or something.
Honestly as someone who plays all the Chaos Marine factions but has 3,000 points of demons I really would prefer that they split them up. I also play a lot of AOS and it just works better in that game, and demons has never felt like it's been a proper force It always feels like four armies in a trenchcoat. With proper rules and balancing they would help flesh out the other rosters too.
Getting "Deathwatched" is the phrase we're going with? Like now that it happens to the special baby-boy Space Marines, we coined the phrase? Like it didnt happen to the Harlequins who ruled over 9th edition and have the most impactful lore in the setting? unreal.
I know my opinion isnt a popular one but if they did make god codexes id be happy, ive wanted to play a real tzeentch soup or khorne soup for a while now
Nothing wrong with having your own preferences! It's been enlightening to see some of the counter arguments to how I feel about it so I appreciate you sharing your own thoughts. Seems like the main thing people are really clamoring for is army bonuses for running Daemons + another Chaos faction. Hopefully that's something they can fix with detachments so everyone ends up happy, that's something I want too, but who knows we'll have to wait & see :)
I'm also worried about knigts both chaos and imperial. People love to hate them
Hmmm, idk they seem insanely popular in my experience, especially for new players. But you're right they definitely get some hate too lol
They're such a cool part of 40k though, it'd be a sad, sad day to see their own books go away
Wont happen. If so, I hope every chaos god falls upon who made the decision.
Deathwatch has been playable since 7th demons I think have been a mono army since 5th. I prefer the codexs be separated as a demons player