Thanks for another great video. But as far as I can tell, the 12V battery has the same duty as in an ICE car. It can really have a very much reduced loading once the main pack is powering things through the DC-DC converter. So this part remains unexplained. Your comments are much appreciated.
You are correct. There really is no additional significant load on the 12 volt battery. There are a lot of computers but that's true in ice cars also. My suspicion is that when they sourced the space and room and design for that 12 volt battery they made it just a bit too small, or the DC to DC converter isn't quite up to the challenge to output enough power and so there ends up being a rather significant duty cycle of charge discharge etc on that 12 volt battery which wears it out sooner. Toyota Prius which I own also has this issue. The battery that they spec for that car is also quite small almost motorcycle in size. And it has a DC to DC converter same as the Tesla. It can theoretically output 1000 Watts. But I suspect the same situation as the Tesla that either the DC DC converter is a bit sluggish and responding to load or some other technical issue. It would be interesting to see in the Tesla if you could shove a 12 volt battery that had a lot higher amp hour rating if it would survive longer. I've got another car that's 15 years old that still has its original 12 volt battery in it.
@@kens97sto171 My take is that the battery acts as a buffer, but truly I see no point to it except a complete discharge of the main battery that will prevent access into the car. My point is that it acts in the way the BIOS battery works on a main board too.
@@kens97sto171 The Prius batteries fail because the charge current is actually too high, not too low. The AGM batteries specified for the Prius are designed for UPS application (uninterrupted power supplies). Recommended charge rate for the OEM YUASA HJ-S46B24R: 3A. Yuasa even calls it a auxiliary AGM Battery and not a tarter battery. The Prius inverter will pump in up to 100A into that battery, especially if at a low state of charge.
@@lapin46 Overcharging possibly makes sense and causing the 12 volt battery to fail early, but the the Prius 12 volt battery is not what actually cranks the engine over , so it never actually sees any significant spike in output amperage like any other car. In the Toyota hybrids the high voltage battery is what cranks the engine over. The only thing that 12 volt battery does is run the Power Electronics, power windows, power locks and headlights etc. If the inverter is actually outputting too much power that doesn't explain why when the 12 volt battery starts to fail the car does all sorts of weird things. If that DC to DC converter is outputting up to about a thousand Watts there should be more than enough overhead to take care of any 12 volt DC loads that might come up even if the 12 volt battery is kind of weak. However that's not how the car reacts. It's not the only car that behaves this way also. A lot of Tesla Model s's have a similar issue. 12 volt battery goes bad pretty quickly on those cars even though just like the Prius it's got an inverter and converter to output more than enough energy. Something weird going on that's for sure, might just be very sensitive Electronics. Maybe the inverters don't output energy that's as clean as it needs to be versus a battery..
@@kens97sto171 I own a Prius for 10yrs now and I am very familiar with its systems. Booting the computers only draws some 30-40A for a few seconds. The unregulated charge current is the only plausible mechanism leading to the typical 5-6 years life time of these in the Toyota Hybrids. OK, mine worked for 7 years. MIL's Auris Hybrid 5 years. Just like Lithium cells, AGM batteries have a very low impedance (Optima YT 2.7: 4.6 mOhm) and draw whatever their internal resistance allows for a given voltage and what the source can provide. 14V applied on a discharged AGM battery can easily draw 1000A and more given the source can provide it. In case of the Prius, this current, up to 100A exceeds the recommended charge current by some 20x at low states of charge. Since the last Yuasa dyed, I fitted a Optima Yellow-Top AGM. According to its data sheet, any charge current is allowed as long as battery temp stays under 50°C. They even show charge time examples with 100A charge current. It will last way longer than the Yuasa for this reason alone.
This company reminds me of the British classic car firms that appeared after the Triumph and MG needed much care and after m market solutions to remedy their little weaknesses. A lot of the solutions for those cars were also simple parts that replaced easily worn down parts made of plastic or soft metals.
Good Video. Quick note: You anodize Aluminum not Steel. You would likely zinc plate and use a black chromate conversion coating on your modified door part.
Do you think you will ever be allowed to replace or upgrade our main batteries? I would consider it if you could modify my Model S with a 100Kw battery and not tick off Tesla.
I do not own a car anymore.being 79. But, I hope you will brand your parts so that owners in the US can buy them, or have their local repair shop obtain them.
I love the stainless still for door handles. I know if i get that for my doors Ill save myself $1000 a year since they break at least once a year or twice. The window plastic item changed to aluminum is also brilliant so the car functions longer. It rEMOVES the planned obsolence that many companies practice for forced repair and profit. Apple is infamous for that and so are many tech companies. Tesla is probably the least of them except for small parts which can still be expensive if you have to do that repair periodically due to faulty design.
Our 2014 Model S cars with over 300.000km on each still have the original 12 volt batteries. But we use our cars every single day. I think that one of the things that also contributes to kill the 12 volt is standing still for a week or two.
The drain on the battery cannot be continuous,. Otherwise the little 35 Amp Hour battery would quickly be dead as a doorknob! The 400 V DC to DC to 13.8 V DC Isolating Power Supply is the true supplier of the energy in the 12 volt system, and acts as a functionally equivalent of a Alternator, to maintain the charge in the battery, so it can deliver the necessary rush currents to stabilize the 12 Volt Bus voltage when rush currents such as power steering, door lock/unlock, head and running lights, turn signals, frunk and trunk unlock, motorized door opening, and closing, power window motors, Cooling system radiator fan and Air moving HVAC Fan, rear and front window resistance defogging, are kicked up on high, ABS Hydraulic Brake actuating , power brake boosting, entertainment systems including audio power amplifiers, anything that causes a momentary high demand to the 12 Volt system that suddenly requires the need for a spiking rush current, yet still maintain the smooth voltage stability until the DC-DC Convertor reacts and takes up the demand and relays the battery,. A smooth, quiet voltage level is needed to not to upset the computers and controllers. At only 35 AH, that is why the poor thing is dying quickly, the best thing would be to put in a larger 50 or so AH battery, and avoid lead acid and go with Lithium Batteries that have internal battery management that can charge as if they are lead acid or use long life, up to ten year, Absorbent Glass Mat Lead -Acid (AGM) Gel cell batteries, which is what your company appears to be having specially produced for replacement. These batteries are similar to the batteries used in handicapped scooters, and Uninterruptible Computer Power supplies, UPS power backup, which use two to four of these. The Tesla also has one other advantage, it can charge the 12 volt system anytime, off the 400 volt system, which may or may not be being charged at the time, so, compared to an ICE Engine, battery, that little Tesla 12 V Battery, actually leads a very charmed life.
How difficult would it be for the end user to fix their doors with a piece like that? Would we even be able to get the original part or the new part that you created? I have a Tesla model s p85. Amazing video! Subscribed
It depends on mechanical skills. The door panels need to be removed, and auto-door handle accessibility is challenging with some of the disassembly done blindly by feel do to mounting hardware location. We are working on thorough tutorial content to assist.
i have p85d 2014 and my handles had to be replaced due to this part breaking. Tesla claimed that they changed the parts to steel now and it should not break as quickly unless the motor goes out in the handle. Lets see how true it is. The earlier p85 models used not so perfected handle system and when they do repair in 2020 and 2022 or 2023 current, they use upgraded parts to repair it so it will last longer and not break. It will be so great if I can do this myself and I know I can if i have the correct parts. I am pretty savvy in DIY projects and electronics.
Of course, anything can be done, but in this case, with an electronic AC compressor, the most sensible and cost effective heater option is the electric heater.
I replaced my own failed heater (heater thermocouple was reading erratic causing heater to cycle off). Found a replacement on ebay with similar Rev level. Much easier then trying to retrofit a heat pump.
I‘m skeptic about the last part, how is the 12V battery still used if the DC-DC converter is running and provides charging power for the battery and the low voltage system? Please explain if there is a logical disconnect.
The HV battery isn’t always “on”. There are large relays that isolate the battery from the rest of the powertrain. These relays will only close once the LV electronics safety system determine it is safe to do so. The 12V battery is what powers the LV electronics until the relays can close and use the dc-dc converter.
@David McKee Blairstown NJ. I’ve owned our S for four years, and lived with it through all four seasons. NEVER, have I had this problem. Maybe the trunk area has been redesigned and my car has benefitted from it. Maybe I’ve just been lucky. Either way, I’m not inclined to believe that your stuff getting wet in a Tesla trunk is a common occurrence. By the way, I also own a Model X. People complained about water flooding the interior when you opened the FWDs in the rain. Again, this has never happened to me in three years of ownership, and again, I’m probably benefiting from an on-the-fly redesign of this area, specifically the rain gutters and the door seals.
Would make sense to replace the lead acid 12v battery for a 12v li-ion since the load required to start an engine isn't present and the deep cycling of a li-ion is more improtant. Plus, the weight reduction is a huge win. I'm of course assuming the battery in the tesla is an old school lead acid.
Question: Why use a 12v battery at all if a DC to DC converter keeps it charged from the 400v primary batteries? Why not simply use the DC to DC converter to supply all of the vehicle's 12v systems?
They tried that with the first gen Roadsters, the 1.5 version. The DC-DC converter drew power from two of the battery sheets (2 of 11), and it created an imbalance and those sheets died first.
The main pack is high voltage. Having the 12V battery means you can have low voltage monitoring of the main pack. Especially, you can disconnect the main pack whenever the car is off or needs service, etc. Thats the biggest advantage that I know about, and its an important one. For example, when there is an accident, the 12V battery system can disconnect the main battery so the vehicle is safe to recover or tear apart to save the occupants, etc. What if the airbags blow? What if the car is submerged under water? You want to have that 12V system disconnecting the main pack.
@@petegruber7564 thanks. I always wondered about this. Explained well. I also wondered why the 12v battery last shorter than ice 12 v battery. Because it is working harder even when the car is parked. Makes sense. If they have a x cycle time then it reaches the cycle time quicker because it is working harder.
Hello, in my 2004 Toyota Prius i use a 12VDC LiFepo4 Battery with 40Ah since 2016. The original FU...NG Lead Acid with only 35Ah last only 2 Years. Why do you not so on Tesla? Greets!
Nickel, a major component of the EV batteries, is found just below the topsoil in the Rainforests of Indonesia and the Philippines. As a result, the nickel is extracted using horizontal surface mining that results in extensive environmental degradation: deforestation and removal of the top layer of soil.
Mr Gruber Could they have not designed a stepdown transformer that reduced the high voltage down to 12V and then converted to dc with an inverter? Would this system be more robust and lighter than the 12 volt battery that is used and will have to be replaced within 3 to 4 years?
Do you know what will happen with the change of the entire cable system in the car announced by Tesla? There was a lot of talk about Tesla 2018 about replacing this very cumbersome and very difficult to install cable system made of normal copper wires with something else.
Awsome company Tesla should have reserved them for work and showed them how to resolve some of their engineering problems. I'm on my third Tesla model S and having some of the same issues I had with the first car. Come on Tesla give us a break
Great video! Would it be (easily) possible to mount a 100kWh pack in an old P85? Would Tesla accept to do such a thing if the vehicle is out of warranty?
The obvious question is: if the 12 Volt battery is maintained in charge by a DC to DC converter, why doesn’t that converter just take the place of the 12V battery? No one expects there to be 400 Volts going to headlights or anything else!
The total amp draw required to eliminate the 12V battery is excessive at times and would bloat the DC-DC Converter. Unfortunately, the old school 12V battery lives on for now.
I figure you probably charge up the battery pack, pull it asap, test the blades, looking for the low ones, pull them out of the pack, individually charge them and look at the individual cells with A FLIR Infrared Sensitive Camera, spraying it with Freeze spray to make sure it is indeed the resistive heat source, watching it quickly get hot again, while its neighbors stay relatively cool, then snip out the hot ones, maybe replace them if you can get mire Panasonic same spec batteries, and reconnect with the thin wire “fuse”.
I wish/hope Tesla has some kind of feedback loop to take suggestions for improvements back from folks like you and Sandy Munroe to incorporate in future production vehicles. There's no reason for the window motor, for example, to have critical parts made out of plastic. Your window and door handle repair parts are a much smarter solution. Same goes for suggestions to Tesla about better placement for things like batteries that need to be swapped out in the future. I don't even like where my windshield washer liquid access point is and its design doesn't prevent spills when refilling.
We share our aftermarket improvements with Tesla. They are grateful, and often ask for samples which we supply them. In the case of the window regulator part for example, they are taking it back to the original vendor that produces this assembly to encourage them to improve the design. Also under consideration is supplying the Service Centers for our slotted retrofit part, which allows field repairs instead of complete assembly replacement.
@@petegruber7564 You guys should franchise out as Tesla sells more and more cars. I want a Gruber near me in Denver for my Model 3 upgrades and my future Cybertruck #300,567. You should partner with Tesla to be their"factory authorized "go to" guys for anything that their Service Centers don't do or don't have time to do. I want to put on some wheel spacers and some after-market soundproofing wheel well covers but I don't want to pull off my tires myself and don't know who to trust to do this for me.
While is clear that they take feedback and improve every day - AGILE integration - the old cars already produced still have the problems mentioned. I see a good market in ''Gruberizing'' your old Tesla like addressing all the problems mentioned with a service visit or a DIY kit.
2:30 Only 18 moving parts in a Model S? 5 doors, 5 door handles. 4 wheels. 2 Engines, 2 mirrors... That's it really? No chairs that move, no gears in the engine? No speakers? No sunroof? How about wipers? Does it have wipers? Brakes? Do the brakes move? How is the coolant pumped around? Or the air? I would not be surprised if this car has more moving parts than a 20 year old rust bucket.
1:17 The presenting door handles are what most people talk about as distinguishing Tesla. Huh? I think not. It will probably rank as number 4 or lower.
12V batteries will last longer if their owners would take the time to maintain them. Place them on the appropriate charger ever 6 months to top them off.
The likelyhood of failure by reducing the number of moving parts is unfortunately outdone by the lack of experience Tesla has. Same is true for EVs in general. Transmissions (1 gear), motors, chargers and batteries break a lot more than an average ICE does. ICE had 100 years to improve. EVs are not there yet. I know, I own two.
@@lorilanili1356 Hello, Spoiled Little Girl, with an over-inflated sense of entitlement. Minding your manners when asking for something improve your chances of getting a true answer. Please, and thank you.
Something I've never understood about the Tesla 12V battery: Sure you don't want to run 300V all over the car, so you need 12V, given. But if you have a 12V battery, you have to keep it charged. So it's necessary to have a DC-DC convertor somewhere, to keep the 12V battery charged from the traction battery. So why can't you just run off the DC-DC convertor for the accessories? Also, why does it need such a big battery? Surely a motorcycle battery would be sufficient, if you don't have to turn a starter, as long as you keep it charged with the DC-DC convertor. Save some weight.
That 18 for the moving parts is export grade BS. A good suspension has that many moving parts/wheel :D OK we know that the Tesla suspension is terrible and does not carry the weight of the vehicle well... it is just a gross underestimation of the number of moving parts. Every single bushing is a moving part did you know? :D
Why use plastics on moving parts I bet Tesla engineers knew that they wont last..for such a small part why not do it in metals.Problem is these will backfire and you wont buy a Tesla anymore like not buying an American made cars!!
Plastic is used for wire guides because it reduces friction. If they are breaking down it hot climates then the wrong plastic is being used. They could switch to teflon and that problem would go away.
Those door handles are the dumbest design feature ever conceived on a car. Not only do they fail and cost thousands to repair, and that's almost hard to believe, that replacing the door handles costs thousands, but it takes time to touch and wait for those idiotic handles to come out, while you stand there like an idiot. A cheap, mechanical handle that would never fail would have been so much better. They need a mechanical retrofit.
@@azspotfree My understanding was that in the early days of the Model S, fixing/replacing one door handle cost in the region of about $1000 per door handle. Over time, through design changes and other improvements, the door handles themselves became more reliable and became less prone to failure. I believe the last quote I saw was $250 to replace. That was three years ago when I read that. I myself own a March 2017-build S75D with 78,000 miles. No door handles have failed on me yet, and I’ve stopped fearing that they will.
😂😂😂😂 haters be haters. News flash the door handles come out when you get near the car automatically and retract when you walk away so there's no waiting 😂😂😂😂
I'm sorry, but all these wonderful features like the door handles, the uber complicated "door system", and God knows what else, are all going to fail! What are you going to do when your door handle doesn't pop out? He may make it sound so advanced by only having 18 parts that move, but fails to say that the car has hundreds of miles of wire and electronic parts that WILL fail eventually. This guy is laughing all the way to the bank on people's stupidity. That door is worth more than all three of my vehicles put together.
It's guys like you that make me not afraid to buy an old used Tesla :D
Hopefully someone will create a kit that allows you to repair the main battery yourself
@@kelvinleigh Id rather have a pro do it ;)
Highly recommend a used one. I bought a used ‘14 MS85 and love it.
I wonder if there is someone like Gruber in europe, as im looking to buy a used Tesla aswell
@@brandonxsimmons Yes I recently bought a used P90DL and wow what a car!!!
Thanks for another great video. But as far as I can tell, the 12V battery has the same duty as in an ICE car. It can really have a very much reduced loading once the main pack is powering things through the DC-DC converter. So this part remains unexplained. Your comments are much appreciated.
You are correct. There really is no additional significant load on the 12 volt battery. There are a lot of computers but that's true in ice cars also. My suspicion is that when they sourced the space and room and design for that 12 volt battery they made it just a bit too small, or the DC to DC converter isn't quite up to the challenge to output enough power and so there ends up being a rather significant duty cycle of charge discharge etc on that 12 volt battery which wears it out sooner. Toyota Prius which I own also has this issue. The battery that they spec for that car is also quite small almost motorcycle in size. And it has a DC to DC converter same as the Tesla. It can theoretically output 1000 Watts. But I suspect the same situation as the Tesla that either the DC DC converter is a bit sluggish and responding to load or some other technical issue. It would be interesting to see in the Tesla if you could shove a 12 volt battery that had a lot higher amp hour rating if it would survive longer.
I've got another car that's 15 years old that still has its original 12 volt battery in it.
@@kens97sto171 My take is that the battery acts as a buffer, but truly I see no point to it except a complete discharge of the main battery that will prevent access into the car. My point is that it acts in the way the BIOS battery works on a main board too.
@@kens97sto171 The Prius batteries fail because the charge current is actually too high, not too low. The AGM batteries specified for the Prius are designed for UPS application (uninterrupted power supplies). Recommended charge rate for the OEM YUASA HJ-S46B24R: 3A. Yuasa even calls it a auxiliary AGM Battery and not a tarter battery. The Prius inverter will pump in up to 100A into that battery, especially if at a low state of charge.
@@lapin46
Overcharging possibly makes sense and causing the 12 volt battery to fail early, but the the Prius 12 volt battery is not what actually cranks the engine over , so it never actually sees any significant spike in output amperage like any other car. In the Toyota hybrids the high voltage battery is what cranks the engine over. The only thing that 12 volt battery does is run the Power Electronics, power windows, power locks and headlights etc.
If the inverter is actually outputting too much power that doesn't explain why when the 12 volt battery starts to fail the car does all sorts of weird things. If that DC to DC converter is outputting up to about a thousand Watts there should be more than enough overhead to take care of any 12 volt DC loads that might come up even if the 12 volt battery is kind of weak. However that's not how the car reacts. It's not the only car that behaves this way also. A lot of Tesla Model s's have a similar issue. 12 volt battery goes bad pretty quickly on those cars even though just like the Prius it's got an inverter and converter to output more than enough energy. Something weird going on that's for sure, might just be very sensitive Electronics. Maybe the inverters don't output energy that's as clean as it needs to be versus a battery..
@@kens97sto171 I own a Prius for 10yrs now and I am very familiar with its systems. Booting the computers only draws some 30-40A for a few seconds. The unregulated charge current is the only plausible mechanism leading to the typical 5-6 years life time of these in the Toyota Hybrids. OK, mine worked for 7 years. MIL's Auris Hybrid 5 years. Just like Lithium cells, AGM batteries have a very low impedance (Optima YT 2.7: 4.6 mOhm) and draw whatever their internal resistance allows for a given voltage and what the source can provide. 14V applied on a discharged AGM battery can easily draw 1000A and more given the source can provide it. In case of the Prius, this current, up to 100A exceeds the recommended charge current by some 20x at low states of charge. Since the last Yuasa dyed, I fitted a Optima Yellow-Top AGM. According to its data sheet, any charge current is allowed as long as battery temp stays under 50°C. They even show charge time examples with 100A charge current. It will last way longer than the Yuasa for this reason alone.
This company reminds me of the British classic car firms that appeared after the Triumph and MG needed much care and after m market solutions to remedy their little weaknesses.
A lot of the solutions for those cars were also simple parts that replaced easily worn down parts made of plastic or soft metals.
After having owned cars like that, and now owning an early Tesla, i can certainly see the similarities.
This was interesting stuff. I'm now a subscriber...
Good Video. Quick note: You anodize Aluminum not Steel. You would likely zinc plate and use a black chromate conversion coating on your modified door part.
Yep, when some people try to be clever on video
You can anodize steel. The problem is it will create surface rust and introduce rust to the bottom layer too. Not great. 👍
@@Mike-kr5dn he said “you anodize aluminum, not steel.” He didn’t say “you can’t anodize steel.”
These are the BEST videos about Tesla cars I’ve ever seen. I’m learning so much.
Great video and good job!!!
We need more people like this in the Tesla crowd.
You have a new fan...
Do you think you will ever be allowed to replace or upgrade our main batteries? I would consider it if you could modify my Model S with a 100Kw battery and not tick off Tesla.
Great video and love the improvements you made on the after market parts.
I do not own a car anymore.being 79.
But, I hope you will brand your parts so that owners in the US can buy them, or have their local repair shop obtain them.
I live in pakistan no tesla cars here but I follow Elon . I regularly watch u because u treat cars perfectly
Thank you for the compliment.
I wish we had a copy of your company here in Australia. You guys are genius to say the least.
If you’re not already you should be famous by Friday !!
Every Tesla owner needs your contact info !!
Thank you so much for all this information.
this is one of the best channels :D
You've earned my subscription!
Great commentary, thank you for the tips and advice. Admire what you're doing, your knowledge and passion for Tesla.
Thank you for this information...I just recently purchased a 2020 Model S and love the vehicle...
I love the stainless still for door handles. I know if i get that for my doors Ill save myself $1000 a year since they break at least once a year or twice. The window plastic item changed to aluminum is also brilliant so the car functions longer. It rEMOVES the planned obsolence that many companies practice for forced repair and profit. Apple is infamous for that and so are many tech companies. Tesla is probably the least of them except for small parts which can still be expensive if you have to do that repair periodically due to faulty design.
Our 2014 Model S cars with over 300.000km on each still have the original 12 volt batteries. But we use our cars every single day. I think that one of the things that also contributes to kill the 12 volt is standing still for a week or two.
The drain on the battery cannot be continuous,. Otherwise the little 35 Amp Hour battery would quickly be dead as a doorknob!
The 400 V DC to DC to 13.8 V DC Isolating Power Supply is the true supplier of the energy in the 12 volt system, and acts as a functionally equivalent of a Alternator, to maintain the charge in the battery, so it can deliver the necessary rush currents to stabilize the 12 Volt Bus voltage when rush currents such as power steering, door lock/unlock, head and running lights, turn signals, frunk and trunk unlock, motorized door opening, and closing, power window motors, Cooling system radiator fan and Air moving HVAC Fan, rear and front window resistance defogging, are kicked up on high, ABS Hydraulic Brake actuating , power brake boosting, entertainment systems including audio power amplifiers, anything that causes a momentary high demand to the 12 Volt system that suddenly requires the need for a spiking rush current, yet still maintain the smooth voltage stability until the DC-DC Convertor reacts and takes up the demand and relays the battery,. A smooth, quiet voltage level is needed to not to upset the computers and controllers.
At only 35 AH, that is why the poor thing is dying quickly, the best thing would be to put in a larger 50 or so AH battery, and avoid lead acid and go with Lithium Batteries that have internal battery management that can charge as if they are lead acid or use long life, up to ten year, Absorbent Glass Mat Lead -Acid (AGM) Gel cell batteries, which is what your company appears to be having specially produced for replacement.
These batteries are similar to the batteries used in handicapped scooters, and Uninterruptible Computer Power supplies, UPS power backup, which use two to four of these.
The Tesla also has one other advantage, it can charge the 12 volt system anytime, off the 400 volt system, which may or may not be being charged at the time, so, compared to an ICE Engine, battery, that little Tesla 12 V Battery, actually leads a very charmed life.
How difficult would it be for the end user to fix their doors with a piece like that? Would we even be able to get the original part or the new part that you created? I have a Tesla model s p85. Amazing video! Subscribed
It depends on mechanical skills. The door panels need to be removed, and auto-door handle accessibility is challenging with some of the disassembly done blindly by feel do to mounting hardware location. We are working on thorough tutorial content to assist.
@@petegruber7564 -- Thank you for the reply and thank you for the tutorial. I just found your channel recently and you guys are amazing!!
i have p85d 2014 and my handles had to be replaced due to this part breaking. Tesla claimed that they changed the parts to steel now and it should not break as quickly unless the motor goes out in the handle. Lets see how true it is. The earlier p85 models used not so perfected handle system and when they do repair in 2020 and 2022 or 2023 current, they use upgraded parts to repair it so it will last longer and not break. It will be so great if I can do this myself and I know I can if i have the correct parts. I am pretty savvy in DIY projects and electronics.
i don't own a tesla and I'm subscribed and watching tesla videos...i have a civic
Great video!
Awesome component
Have there been issues with the new steel paddle gear wearing the motor gear now that it's stronger
None. Since both metals are now matched, we do not anticipate any issues.
Well done Gruber Motors, clever work and interesting.
Nobody talks about the Tesla model S heater but I wonder if you can upgrade to a heat pump
Of course, anything can be done, but in this case, with an electronic AC compressor, the most sensible and cost effective heater option is the electric heater.
I replaced my own failed heater (heater thermocouple was reading erratic causing heater to cycle off). Found a replacement on ebay with similar Rev level. Much easier then trying to retrofit a heat pump.
Very interesting. I love to learn and your website does help. Thank you.
I‘m skeptic about the last part, how is the 12V battery still used if the DC-DC converter is running and provides charging power for the battery and the low voltage system? Please explain if there is a logical disconnect.
The HV battery isn’t always “on”. There are large relays that isolate the battery from the rest of the powertrain. These relays will only close once the LV electronics safety system determine it is safe to do so. The 12V battery is what powers the LV electronics until the relays can close and use the dc-dc converter.
@@seanbonaventure6102 that is different from an ICE car because of what? 🤔
Wonder how the handle behaves in Michigan winter when it is frozen in ice.
Rain inside my trunk? Never has happened in my S.
@David McKee That’s wrong, that problem was only present on older Model 3 not Model S and is fixed with modified parts for newer ones.
@David McKee That has never happened to me, and I’ve owned a Model S for four years.
@David McKee Blairstown NJ. I’ve owned our S for four years, and lived with it through all four seasons. NEVER, have I had this problem. Maybe the trunk area has been redesigned and my car has benefitted from it. Maybe I’ve just been lucky. Either way, I’m not inclined to believe that your stuff getting wet in a Tesla trunk is a common occurrence. By the way, I also own a Model X. People complained about water flooding the interior when you opened the FWDs in the rain. Again, this has never happened to me in three years of ownership, and again, I’m probably benefiting from an on-the-fly redesign of this area, specifically the rain gutters and the door seals.
Perfect video. Your jobs are really impressive. Tesla after market is growing rapidly in Germany too. Is it possible to find your product in Germany ?
Which product are you asking about?
We are exploring partnerships that would make parts and repairs available in Europe as well.
What about changing the 12v batt with a LiFePO4 battery...?
Love the video! Great information on the S as I will be getting one.
Great information thanks. So Fun to improve stuff, you are great at this and have the personal and resources to do so.
How can we get those window aftermarket insert I need to my mode S 2014 P85D?
grubermotors.com/product/window-regulator-repair/
Would make sense to replace the lead acid 12v battery for a 12v li-ion since the load required to start an engine isn't present and the deep cycling of a li-ion is more improtant. Plus, the weight reduction is a huge win. I'm of course assuming the battery in the tesla is an old school lead acid.
I replaced my Model S 12V battery with a Li-ion one (actually a LiFePO4 one) four years ago, so far no problems.
Question: Why use a 12v battery at all if a DC to DC converter keeps it charged from the 400v primary batteries? Why not simply use the DC to DC converter to supply all of the vehicle's 12v systems?
They tried that with the first gen Roadsters, the 1.5 version. The DC-DC converter drew power from two of the battery sheets (2 of 11), and it created an imbalance and those sheets died first.
The main pack is high voltage. Having the 12V battery means you can have low voltage monitoring of the main pack. Especially, you can disconnect the main pack whenever the car is off or needs service, etc. Thats the biggest advantage that I know about, and its an important one. For example, when there is an accident, the 12V battery system can disconnect the main battery so the vehicle is safe to recover or tear apart to save the occupants, etc. What if the airbags blow? What if the car is submerged under water? You want to have that 12V system disconnecting the main pack.
@@petegruber7564 thanks. I always wondered about this. Explained well. I also wondered why the 12v battery last shorter than ice 12 v battery. Because it is working harder even when the car is parked. Makes sense. If they have a x cycle time then it reaches the cycle time quicker because it is working harder.
Hello, in my 2004 Toyota Prius i use a 12VDC LiFepo4 Battery with 40Ah since 2016. The original FU...NG Lead Acid with only 35Ah last only 2 Years. Why do you not so on Tesla? Greets!
Can you anodise steel? Alu and Titanium yes but steel? Do you mean you blue it or am i confused? Thanks.
Ty!
wh not repeplacing the 12y lead acid battery by super capacytors?
Do you sell the gear pal to DIY folks (not a shop, just an early Model S person) so I can avoid ebay mystery metal?
Thank you
Nickel, a major component of the EV batteries, is found
just below the topsoil in the Rainforests of Indonesia
and the Philippines. As a result, the nickel is extracted
using horizontal surface mining that results in extensive
environmental degradation: deforestation and removal
of the top layer of soil.
I love this kind of stuff. Tesla should watch and learn a few things from Gruber Motors.
Mr Gruber
Could they have not designed a stepdown transformer that reduced the high voltage down to 12V and then converted to dc with an inverter? Would this system be more robust and lighter
than the 12 volt battery that is used and will have to be replaced within 3 to 4 years?
You speak awesome
These guys are going to be crazy rich soon :)
LifePo4 for the 12v battery; good idea or bad idea?
Can’t the steel cable on aluminium bushing cause electrolysis?
Is there a similiar video for the Model X?
Do you know what will happen with the change
of the entire cable system in the car announced
by Tesla?
There was a lot of talk about Tesla 2018 about
replacing this very cumbersome and very
difficult to install cable system made of normal
copper wires with something else.
I still don't understand why a 12vdc battery is required. Why can't the battery pack feed a circuit that reduces its' output to 12dc?
Is your 12v battery made up of 18650 cells?
Do you guys by any chance install open pilot in old pre Ap model s?
Awsome company Tesla should have reserved them for work and showed them how to resolve some of their engineering problems. I'm on my third Tesla model S and having some of the same issues I had with the first car. Come on Tesla give us a break
Great video! Would it be (easily) possible to mount a 100kWh pack in an old P85? Would Tesla accept to do such a thing if the vehicle is out of warranty?
Possible, but not cost effective.
No. It's too heavy
The obvious question is: if the 12 Volt battery is maintained in charge by a DC to DC converter, why doesn’t that converter just take the place of the 12V battery? No one expects there to be 400 Volts going to headlights or anything else!
The total amp draw required to eliminate the 12V battery is excessive at times and would bloat the DC-DC Converter. Unfortunately, the old school 12V battery lives on for now.
I figure you probably charge up the battery pack, pull it asap, test the blades, looking for the low ones, pull them out of the pack, individually charge them and look at the individual cells with A FLIR Infrared Sensitive Camera, spraying it with Freeze spray to make sure it is indeed the resistive heat source, watching it quickly get hot again, while its neighbors stay relatively cool, then snip out the hot ones, maybe replace them if you can get mire Panasonic same spec batteries, and reconnect with the thin wire “fuse”.
I wish/hope Tesla has some kind of feedback loop to take suggestions for improvements back from folks like you and Sandy Munroe to incorporate in future production vehicles. There's no reason for the window motor, for example, to have critical parts made out of plastic. Your window and door handle repair parts are a much smarter solution. Same goes for suggestions to Tesla about better placement for things like batteries that need to be swapped out in the future. I don't even like where my windshield washer liquid access point is and its design doesn't prevent spills when refilling.
We share our aftermarket improvements with Tesla. They are grateful, and often ask for samples which we supply them. In the case of the window regulator part for example, they are taking it back to the original vendor that produces this assembly to encourage them to improve the design. Also under consideration is supplying the Service Centers for our slotted retrofit part, which allows field repairs instead of complete assembly replacement.
@@petegruber7564 You guys should franchise out as Tesla sells more and more cars. I want a Gruber near me in Denver for my Model 3 upgrades and my future Cybertruck #300,567. You should partner with Tesla to be their"factory authorized "go to" guys for anything that their Service Centers don't do or don't have time to do. I want to put on some wheel spacers and some after-market soundproofing wheel well covers but I don't want to pull off my tires myself and don't know who to trust to do this for me.
While is clear that they take feedback and improve every day - AGILE integration - the old cars already produced still have the problems mentioned. I see a good market in ''Gruberizing'' your old Tesla like addressing all the problems mentioned with a service visit or a DIY kit.
ls swap one. that would be huge improvement.
John locke from Lost?
2:30 Only 18 moving parts in a Model S? 5 doors, 5 door handles. 4 wheels. 2 Engines, 2 mirrors... That's it really? No chairs that move, no gears in the engine? No speakers? No sunroof? How about wipers? Does it have wipers? Brakes? Do the brakes move? How is the coolant pumped around? Or the air? I would not be surprised if this car has more moving parts than a 20 year old rust bucket.
1:17 The presenting door handles are what most people talk about as distinguishing Tesla. Huh?
I think not. It will probably rank as number 4 or lower.
12V batteries will last longer if their owners would take the time to maintain them. Place them on the appropriate charger ever 6 months to top them off.
The likelyhood of failure by reducing the number of moving parts is unfortunately outdone by the lack of experience Tesla has. Same is true for EVs in general. Transmissions (1 gear), motors, chargers and batteries break a lot more than an average ICE does. ICE had 100 years to improve. EVs are not there yet. I know, I own two.
Wouldn't an aluminium bushing wear out the steel cable running on through it?
The steel is harder than the aluminum so if anything the cable wears out the bushing instead.
Crying out load, please tell the approximate price for improvement.
if you have to ask the price then you can't afford it.
Hello rich boy with bottomless pocket and no sense of value.
@@lorilanili1356 Hello, Spoiled Little Girl, with an over-inflated sense of entitlement. Minding your manners when asking for something improve your chances of getting a true answer. Please, and thank you.
Something I've never understood about the Tesla 12V battery: Sure you don't want to run 300V all over the car, so you need 12V, given. But if you have a 12V battery, you have to keep it charged. So it's necessary to have a DC-DC convertor somewhere, to keep the 12V battery charged from the traction battery. So why can't you just run off the DC-DC convertor for the accessories?
Also, why does it need such a big battery? Surely a motorcycle battery would be sufficient, if you don't have to turn a starter, as long as you keep it charged with the DC-DC convertor. Save some weight.
Now make a video and show where the 12V battery of the Roadster is located ;-)
Here you go:
ruclips.net/video/rKFM62pvBnA/видео.html
@@petegruber7564 You did already! Thanks.
That 18 for the moving parts is export grade BS. A good suspension has that many moving parts/wheel :D OK we know that the Tesla suspension is terrible and does not carry the weight of the vehicle well... it is just a gross underestimation of the number of moving parts. Every single bushing is a moving part did you know? :D
Maybe 18 moving parts in just the powertrain?
Now story has changed and people will ask gruber parts not tesla original
Why use plastics on moving parts I bet Tesla engineers knew that they wont last..for such a small part why not do it in metals.Problem is these will backfire and you wont buy a Tesla anymore like not buying an American made cars!!
Plastic is used for wire guides because it reduces friction. If they are breaking down it hot climates then the wrong plastic is being used. They could switch to teflon and that problem would go away.
Failure due to poor engineering.
Those door handles are the dumbest design feature ever conceived on a car. Not only do they fail and cost thousands to repair, and that's almost hard to believe, that replacing the door handles costs thousands, but it takes time to touch and wait for those idiotic handles to come out, while you stand there like an idiot. A cheap, mechanical handle that would never fail would have been so much better. They need a mechanical retrofit.
I can count the number of times that I've had to stand there waiting for the handles to come out. Once. In four years of ownership.
@@avesraggiana I stand corrected dude, nobody ever spent thousands to replace them either
@@azspotfree My understanding was that in the early days of the Model S, fixing/replacing one door handle cost in the region of about $1000 per door handle. Over time, through design changes and other improvements, the door handles themselves became more reliable and became less prone to failure. I believe the last quote I saw was $250 to replace. That was three years ago when I read that. I myself own a March 2017-build S75D with 78,000 miles. No door handles have failed on me yet, and I’ve stopped fearing that they will.
😂😂😂😂 haters be haters. News flash the door handles come out when you get near the car automatically and retract when you walk away so there's no waiting 😂😂😂😂
set the playback speed to 1.75 thank me later
I'm sorry, but all these wonderful features like the door handles, the uber complicated "door system", and God knows what else, are all going to fail! What are you going to do when your door handle doesn't pop out? He may make it sound so advanced by only having 18 parts that move, but fails to say that the car has hundreds of miles of wire and electronic parts that WILL fail eventually. This guy is laughing all the way to the bank on people's stupidity. That door is worth more than all three of my vehicles put together.
thank you