Grappling With a Sword - Showcasing HEMA
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2016
- Hosts Sean Franklin and Nicole Smith give a basic overview of grappling within sword fighting.
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Industrial Cinematic Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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That god damned thumbnail... I burst out laughing for about 45 seconds
it is God can't you spell
@@Ajay-lu4je Woah, get off your high horse
You know it's fascinating as a person who has no/little experience in this topic, I didn't even consider this possibility before and now it seems obvious
TheHypno15 You should try "Ending him Rightly". Unscrew the pommel. And throw it at him. He'll never see it coming.
Indeed. But don't be mislead by demonstration videos. Not going to be so easy against an opponent with experience, or even someone inexperienced but strong.
I loved your poorly-choreographed Star Trek grappling bit!
I am a practitioner of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Kali Escrima so the idea of grappling with a blade sounds amazing to me. Hope to see more stuff like this and maybe a few more drills with daggers.
Saul Tarvitz Brazilian is derived from Judo which is derived from Bu-Jutsu. It is the descendant of samurai ground work.
Grappling in swordfighting was actually pretty common back during the feudal and medieval times of Europe and Asia.
One example is where the enemy warrior swings his sword at the main character, and the MC dodges the blow by leaning quickly to the right, locking the ew's sword arm with his own, and delivering several blows to his face and head.
Or breaking a foe's left wrist with the pommel, grabbing and locking his sword arm with your shield arm, and repeatedly stabbing the poor sod.
Grappling sounds very reasonable when you consider your opponent most likely wearing armor
@@notuxnobux Really depends on the era-strategy with a sword is completely different against armor, and blades aren't optimal in that context. (I'd prefer hammer and mace;)
The winner of Knight Fight had MMA experience, and heavily utilized hip throws. But it wasn't a great representation of "sword fighting" because it was all hacking, punching with gauntlet, and throws. (They weren't allowed to use weapons actually useful in that context-maces and hammers specifically banned.)
In unarmored combat, the most likely outcome of attempting a grapple against an experienced fencer is probably getting cut. But that doesn't meant it can't work, and full contact fencers ideally should be cross-training for striking and grappling in addition to blade work. (Read what Musashi says about striking with the shoulder.)
I can appreciate this as someone who has yet to get into HEMA but has legitimate grappling wrestling experience
Nicole: "Now, there are techniques you can pull off from here..."
Me: "KICK HIM IN THE NADS"
that's actually one of Fiore de Liberi's plays XD
"I raise my right leg and strike him in the testicles" direct quote from his sword in two hand section XD
Restomp the groin
21st Century people: You call kicking people in the balls a martial art?
Ancient people: Hey, as long as it works.
Krav Maga people: They have a point you know?
This video's thumbnail is gold!
Really good principles explained here again. Good job !
All those basic learning is helping me to set up a proper position even without a proper sword, thanks a lot for all the information, hopefully one day i will be able to make a trip to Canada and visit you guys, if is permited of course.
So interesting to watch and practice these techniques as a fencer who is more used to "infighting" using angled point attacks in such close distances. Grappling is way more practical and is one of the reasons I'd love to take up HEMA!
this channel is underrated holy frick
Yeah. They do so good work and all the movements are clear.
I already see judo happening. Cross training really gives insight in fighting.
I came here to find different sword techniques for my story, but I've gotten interested and actually wanna try to get into fencing/sword fighting.
The video is quite old, but I find it interesting and it got to the points I needed. And got to points I never could've thought of.
I'm designing a fantasy tabletop rpg and was looking for some insider knowledge, and this video was super helpful. Thanks!
You guys rock, nice video session.
High-quality content here.
I love this channel
Very important lesson. Great video.
Love your videos!
Very nice. For a followup I'd like to see some techniques that use the sword as a lever in grappling.
I’m a Huge history fan and I also train bjj and mma. This is SO interesting to me.
I expected a lot of wrestling but this works too😊 love your videos
Fantastic thumbnail, bravo
You guys are the real deal!
It's really cool how many leverage points are in play with sword grappling. It'll be amazing as HEMA broadens and we see people with national level judo or D2 wrestling compete with each other.
Well, you guys just earned yourselves another sub. :D
Very good .
Very informative!
Fun video guys thank you
Very interesting!
Very informative.
awesome videoooo
Great thumbnail by the way
Wow these videos are awesome, thanks you soo much. =))
You guys are pretty funny. Great video.
thank you you are great
I mostly do Karate/Kung-fu (oriental martial arts) but I'm really starting to develop an intense fascination with HEMA/weaponry & grappling!
Finally, proper sword fighting
The Star Trek part was excellent! The rest of the video too, by the way. Cheers!
Every HEMA school should have a comprehensive grappling/ submission wrestling curriculum. Mandatorily. The difference between an experienced grappler competing in historical fencing and a fencer with no close quarters skill is like an adult fighting a child. Of course the general public wants an easy, flashy, fast transition from starting HEMA to actually fence, but they have no idea that weapons fighting is only the tip of the iceberg. The foundation must be much deeper than just the weapons training. There's multiple compilations of judo throws in HEMA bouts to illustrate this point.
Great video. Thanks for posting!
interesting stuff, thank you for the video. I have a question - what about a punching/kicking techniques in historical swordsmanship? For example the straight-kick that demonstrated in the manual of Hans Talhoffer. Is there stuff similar to that?
Very uncommon. If you put the foot up it has an opportunity to be grabbed or cut. Additionally with a sword in the picture the punch/kick range advantage is rather inconsequential.
Punches are also shockingly rare, if you have a free hand it is much more preferred to grab an arm and break it (like you see in the first scene with the dussaks). It's kind of a running joke in the HEMA community that punching wasn't invented until after the Renaissance.
Okay, thank you very much
also it seems like some variation of punching technique potentially can be used with a buckler, as Skallagrim showed in his later videos, but i guess it's indeed very rare
Ah, a buckler punch is a a whole different story. Not only is it not rare, it is actually very common.
Oh i see, thank you again for answering
Nice.
Wish I could be practising this, too bad my country doesn't know about this sport
lol way to take a STAB at star trek xD i love this channel
I see alot of FMA and Kali in this video. good work B&I
Kali or filipino martial arts was heavily influenced by HEMA as well. Remember that the Spanish knew these this when the arrived.
yes you are correct, but FMA is only influenced by....they also had their own tribal martial ways... the Moro tribesmen were the most feared and the Spanish outlawed their customs, so the tribes had to hide their martial ways in what is now known as modern day escrima. kali and escrima are different in very subtle ways.
but you make a great point.
dat thumbnail had me laughing sooo hard
sick af
In CMA if both grab the opponent's saber it turns into kicking battle
Sean has such a nice voice
Is that a Dusack trainer at the very first demo? About 0:34
That thumbnail...
1:11 I like this position
low joint kick, butt, Various technics can be linked.
in life and death combat there is no such thing as honorable. Also for everything there is a counter. That is why it's so important to learn as much as you can about every weapon, technique, and martial art possible, so you can be the most diverse warrior possible.
Thumbnails great
Nuevamente gracias por los subtitulos en español :)
I would like to see these techniques pressure tested. I've seen too many techniques demonstrated with a compliant partner. How many of your techniques, out of your whole syllabus, do you use in sparring?
Fear not brother. Unlike a lot of martial arts, HEMA, the martial art they are demonstrating, has a huge emphasis on full contact, full speed sparing.
@@sullir9397 That's good to know. Could you answer the second question if you have any relevant knowledge on free hand or weapon sparring please? Thank you for your reply.
The short answer is that they have all been tested in sparring.
HEMA stands for Historical European Martial Arts. It's important to understand this because that sums up the methodology used in the sport. The Historical part in particular. These people form clubs where they read the techniques from historical manuscripts, and then they try to fully figure them out. At the end of the day it will always come down to the sparring floor.
@@sullir9397 Thank you for taking the time to reply.
ruclips.net/video/rUIoMreBQa0/видео.html
I once landed double leg takedown, although the point is i only landed it once :/
I love HEMA grappling and honestly wish there was more of it
Swords aren't the best weapon to use against armor so leveling the playing field seems like an obvious thing to do
Spears are all well and good but people dont seem to understand that a spear is practically useless after the point has been crossed
Then the fight comes down to wrestling.
Would you advise grappling for a smaller person? Is it more skill based than strength? Obviously strength is good and is a (no pun intended xD) strength but is skill also usable in a close up grapple situation, rather than strength?
It'll be more situational than it would be for a tall, beefy giant. Grappling is an even balance of skill and strength, but what way that scale tips depends on you. A bigger person can rely on their strength to carry them through, you need to worry more about where you apply force. If you are both in an even bind, you will lose. You need to be in the strong position of a bind to win. I'd advise it, but you must be more skilled than them. (Or at least faster) I mean, look at the video at 2:20; she's not tiny, but he's much larger and still drops because she disrupts the structure of his legs while applying force to his torso. Source; sparring with my older brother who is about 1.7 times my size.
We made a video a couple weeks ago about strength in Sword fighting, that addresses your question a fair bit. - ruclips.net/video/ev-j59Bl9rk/видео.html
In short, yes. But it has to be about leverage and speed with an extremely small margin of error.
Proper technique gives you an advantage in grappling. Technique lets you use position and leverage to mitigate strength/power, that said power-over-technique is a real concern if you are seriously disadvantaged. You should have sized up your opponent before the fight starts to assess this. If your opponent can ragdoll you a LOT of techniques go out the window.
I see what you mean. I guess you should shoot for skill anyhow seeing as how there's always someone bigger. This same idea applies to plate armored fighting as well?
@spikeynorman47 You want grappling skill AND strength. Don't compromise either base, or you'll find yourself at the wrong end of the sword.
Yes you can out-skill a stronger fighter, but being a stronger fighter doesn't mean being less skilled. Strength training is paramount for combat sports, period - both competition and self-defense.
Please do German wrestling I want to see this and I wanna training and some demonstration
@1:45 I'd suggest going under the elbow pushing up. This will destabilise the opponent instantly.
Completely agree, disarms are one of my favorite ways to end a bout. And because of my other martial arts training the first time I ever trained with a sword, I proceeded to plant my boot into my opponent's chest like in Tallhoffer's manuscript. However the club I train with does not allow kicks (too much of a safety hazard.)
I only picked up a longsword recently, but I'm sensing that problem too. There are so many options that are probably not safe b/c I get the impression a lot of folks aren't training seriously, and could easily get hurt by the real thing...
I don't really like disarms though-I'd rather control the opponents blade with my blade and slice, cut or thrust. It seems pretty clear that longsword is meant to be used as a lever to set up determinative strikes without the possibility of reply.
What is that magic at 2:03 ???
Grabbing the blade and using a pommel hook to anchor the main hand as the fulcrum of your lever. Hook with handle, grab blade, pull blade onto arm, keep pulling, leverage wrenches sword out of hand.
So can we point out how she just grabs a sword and the guy just doesn’t even resist imagine if it was sharp and he resisted all you’d end up with is a cut up hand
What is the intro song?
Intro and outro are done by Betonengel.
Blood and Iron HEMA Thank you :D
Nice video. It's important to integrate ringen with swords. The manuals are full of this sort of stuff. Sadly, tho, it seems that many people who come to HEMA aren't interested in doing ringen. We recently lost a student at our club because he didn't like doing ringen and ringen am schwert. I've run into quite a few people like him over the years.
I have your sword !
I have yours !
So what do we do now ?
This is beautiful but no protection??
Is this the Italian school of swordsmanship or a european multicultural broadsword martial method?
We're primarily German, though the Italians have some good ideas too ;)
I find that the some techniques and the strategy behind it, are fairly similar to okinawan bo staff in the sense.
You can punch them too right? if i bound their arm, i'd go in for a punch or pommel strike.
fiore dei liberi says that striking is one of the eight requirments/components of his grappling system, so in short, yes!
How tall is the lady?
Tall enough!
That woman's got some triceps on her. Bringing guns to a sword fight
Nicole has a cool necklace
2:27 is a classic judo move with a sword. Osoto gari.
Not Osoto Gari due to lack of foot sweep. It's Osoto position but not gari. Closest I can think of is gake (knee hook) but she's stepping way past and pivoting him from the floor instead of sweeping his base out from under.
Imagine if John wick learned how to grapple with swords instead of guns now that would be a cool movie
damn that woman is badass, where you find her?
The thumbnail is an actual meme tho
Desarmar colocando a mão na lâmina?... rsrsrs
That’s straight from FMA
Thumbnail looks like she'S cought the Flash while trying to phase
Ramsay Dewey
You here?
she's jacked. I can totally see her kicking my ass without any effort.
But not too jacked. It's mostly tendon strength, so real fencers tend not to look like Arnold in Conan-all the muscle makes your tight and slows you down.
1:44 looks wierd
Seen a few of your videos and I just wanted to say the following. Techniques practiced without resistance are USELESS in any kind of fighting ( as im sure you know ). Lets see some legit sparring and a breakdown of the applied techniques after...... Oh 1:25 headbutt.
Really sparring tends to get real messy. (Unless it's me beating the opponents blade aside and stabbing in the gorget until their knocked out of bounds;)
I can't get over HEMA's thumpnails
+1000 amok time.
Most of these moves don't work if the opponent doesn't play along. Just kick them in the crotch, and hit drop a big rock on their head.
That's true of most demos. In real sparring, the stuff arises naturally so you're really training to be able to take advantage of opportunities as they arise. The reason most fencers should probably avoid grapples is b/c they probably haven't trained enough in grappling. I was trained by an expert in all 3 areas who maintained that you still want to do it with the blade exclusively if possible, b/c a cut or thrust can be instantly determinative.
From a distance of about 6 feet, my sword is more dangerous than a gun. But if I had a gun, do I drop it to wrestle?
And my limited experience of full contact sword sparring is that, if you don't approach it as life-or-death, you don't have the right attitude. Swords are frickin' dangerous.
@@itinerantpoet1341 I'd rather have a sword than a fist, but at 6 feet a sword is never more dangerous than a gun unless you get the drop on someone.
I trained in martial arts for 18 years, and was in the army for 8. As hard as I trained in each it only helped when the real thing came up. The only way to really be good at either is to survive a few fights.
@@meat-hook I can thrust 6 feet with a longsword before a person can bring a gun to bear, but I take your point.
(There's a reason cops and soldiers use guns, not swords!)
Mainly I was trying to reinforce how dangerous even blunt swords can be (speaking as one with a fair number of stiches;)
@@meat-hook "The only way to really be good at either is to survive a few fights." That on top of obsessive training.
Like you I trained in a traditional system for more than 30 years, including an extant sword system, and my limited current experience with protective gear for full contact has validated that training hard is essential.
(I think people are crazy to spar full contact with swords if their not putting in at least 3 to 4 hours per day, and doing 100x reps to 10x drilling to 1x sparring. Anything else is "just reinforcing bad habits.")
The other thing that drives me nuts is sword training vids where they just show the cut, and everything that happens in between is "nothing".
I was taught that it's ALL about what happens in between and that cutting and thrusting is easy when you've practiced those techniques a literal million times.
So I practice my counters (parries) 10x compared to my cuts, and I practice my thrusts as much as I practice my cuts. And all of that is worthless unless I'm spending even *more* time on footwork.
All I see is sweeps
1:30 is false... especially if aggression is present the stronger guy will just body-slam the weaker guy into TKO.
Not if the weaker guys is better at grappling and maintains superiour leverage. But in the vid they say that 1:30 is terrible, and show it as what *not* to do.
Now Movie makers only haver to look and learn. so we don´t have to see five minutes or more om dancing on furnitures or "sword experts" that fight in a way that would get them robbed of their sword in seconds.
The fight choreographers are the most knowledgeable people in this field already. Check out the final fight in The Last Duel. There's some hollywood, but also a lot of real techniques, applications, and strategy.
This video shows that some things are interesting to others that I find ridiculous and stupid. I’m not saying it’s ridiculous or stupid. I’m saying lots of variety of people exist.
Came across this video by accident...but I would just like to point out that mostly the oponent is trying to defend himself - thus rendering these technigues...well....usable mostly for stage "fighting"
Haha party this you filthy casual
How dare you make fun of Star Trek wrestling?!!
That's it. I'm sick of all this "medieval broadsword" bullshit that's going on in this thread right now. Katanas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.
I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine katana in Japan for 2,400,000 Yen (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my katana.
Japanese smiths spend years working on a single katana and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.
Katanas are thrice as sharp as European swords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a longsword can cut through, a katana can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.
Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Japan? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Samurai and their katanas of destruction. Even in World War II, American soldiers targeted the men with the katanas first because their killing power was feared and respected.
This is... unfortunately such an incredibly accurate comment found just about everywhere...
No, the Katana is not the reason why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Japan. First of, Japan is on the other side of the world, a naval invasion from Europe would not even be feasible. Secondly, Europe discovered Japan in 1542 AD, that's after the Medieval period ended.
Fredrik Henriksson I literally say in my comment that "I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my katana."
Why are you taking this seriously?
A the Katana supremacist
It's okay Lenny Face guy. Let people fall for the bait.
Wouldn’t a shield negate half these attacks....
That’s straight from FMA