I find your favourite villains of each series kinda funny. It almost felt like it boiled down to, which one is better? The Vegeta body snatcher or the Goku body snatcher?
>Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks confront Zamasu from the past. Zamasu: You could not live with your own failures. Where did that bring you? Back to me. I thought by eliminating all of the mortals, the world would thrive. But you’ve shown me, that’s impossible. As long as there are forces beyond my control, there will always be those who will try to stop this planet from achieving its true potential of beauty. Vegeta: Yep. We’re all kinds of stubborn. Zamasu: I am grateful. Because now, I know what I must do. I will shred this universe down to its last mortal. And then, with the Super Dragonballs you’ve collected for me, create a new one. Teeming with life that knows not what it has lost, but only what it has been given. A grateful universe. Future Trunks: Born out of blood. Zamasu: They’ll never know it. *Ki blade* Because you won’t be alive to tell them. Goku: RRAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!
I will never not think SSJ4 should have been canon. Besides the cool design, it was a real creative addition onto the concept of a Super Saiyan. Reincorporating the tail and Ozaru (*the actual main unique trait of Saiyans pre-SSJ*) into the Super Saiyan mythos is just such a cool direction, and really seems to tie their lore together. The Super Saiyan God stuff just feels tacked on to give them new hair color transformations. Here's this random ritual that unlocks GOD POWER! I don't even hate them, it just feels so creatively inferior to SSJ4.
@@digizilla164 Yeah, that's what I'm getting at too. The ape was such a key aspect of the Saiyan lore. Requiring mastery of the Ozaru form along with Super Saiyan works so well. Having the resulting form be a marriage between the man and the beast into one body was awesome.
Actually yes the ritual thing was dumb but the new hair color transformation makes sense.Ngl,I'm tired of people who loves ssj4 but call ssg and ssb just a color change. Like super saiyan god + super saiyan blue make total sense. Like super saiyan god is just base form combined with god ki which is just KI.What do you expect that combo to do?Make a red haired saiyan come out?It makes sense that goku looks just like he would look in base but the god ki makes him thinner and his hair red. Then super saiyan blue also makes sense since its just super saiyan being added to god ki.I'd be confused if i saw something like a ssj4 come out of this combo.Like its just SUPER SAIYAN being added to GOD KI.It makes sense that its not that different from their normal ki counterparts. (Plus I'm not saying that the design of ssj4 is bad.Its good af actually)
@@MrRWord Wasn't saying the changes are nonsensical given the concept they came up with. Just that they aren't interesting or creative additions to the Saiyan lore. God Ki is an interesting concept on its own, but they don't do anything intriguing with it via the transformations. You're right, it's just base Goku and SSJ Goku + God Ki. Absent the story doing anything interesting with what accessing God Ki actually means this is pretty lame. Plotwise it's just Ritual -> New, more powerful transformations. Maybe if they actually played more with the concept of what a Saiyan *God* (how the Ozaru wouldn't at least be related seems silly to me) actually is before granting the SSG transform, and then actually went into what it took to attain Blue. But the way it's presented in the story really is "they did some stuff, and now Goku and Vegeta have stronger forms (with new hair colors)". It just seems funny. Saiyans are a warrior race who conquered world's as giant destructive apes. A physical meld between Ozaru and Saiyan seems more like what a Saiyan God would be like, it epitomizes self-control. I don't even really care that they didn't use the same concept or design (I was actually excited to see what Toriyama would come up with instead), it's just that I don't think what we got instead was nearly as neat as it could have been.
@@LilBoyHexley Ohhh now I get what you meant properly.I like super saiyan god a lot but I have to agree that super saiyan blue could've been done better.Finally I found a gt fan who isn't toxic to me lol.
at least baby had a story behind it, not just some basic ass plot that every alien or AI movie have already beaten to death "huh humans bad, humans kill planet i never heard of before"
@@geovani60624 It's not even about humans, it's about mortals. It's a divine being disgusted by what he views as the failures of mortals, that's not necessarily award winning but I don't think you can really say that revenge stories are less beaten to death.
*slams fist on desk* I say og Dragonball! Why don't we all sit together to talk about what we love and stop punching eachothers teeth over opinions out?
I think a missed opportunity in GT during the ending is Goku not visiting/spending time with ChiChi. She would obviously not want to let him go and cook him loads, and eventually Goku could ask for his twelfth portion, only for Chichi to find the table empty by the time she's back. It would show that Goku cares for his wife a bit and say something about him since he chose to have her cooking as his last meal. Just a thought
Interesting note. I'm sure people have had them cross their mind when thinking of db and specifically gt but they dont give it weight. The show is named after them to begin with and while the super dragon balls were used as a tournament prize they still went by the same rules. Maybe its just the end goal and everything else is the journey but they really did forget about them until and because they became so easy to find.
Don't tell me that scene wasn't funny as fuck. Seeing Goku just act so casually with such powerful and godly beings is kind of part of his charm, at least in my opinion. He manages to touch them and connect with them in a way very few people can, just by being himself. Zeno took a liking to him just because he was acting like himself, and Beerus clearly took a liking to him too with just one fight. Same thing with Hit and even Jiren to a certain extent.
@@ginogatash4030 he was always a weakling. In the sense that Goku and Vegeta were already way stronger than him in Super Saiyan 2. He was stronger than Cell, and yet that amounted to literally nothing. Yeah he was useless in Super, but he kinda became useless in Z after awhile as well. That's what you get when your God isn't exactly that imposing...
In the Super manga Shin is way more competent and comes in clutch in several moments in the Goku Black arc. The anime writing staff mishandled him in comparison
@@MattManDX1 yeah, that scene where he shows up with Gowasu and explains every bullshit made by Black and Zamasu is great. The Goku Black arc was overall better in the manga, even though the anime had several moments which I liked more. Seriously, who the fuck had the idea to make Vegetto unfuse BEFORE the Final Kamehameha?
GT wins for me. At least Goku felt consistent with how he was in Z as opposed to the Man-Child claiming to be Goku in Super. And one other thing to note, the End of Z is still canon, so all the stakes and Drama in Super feel hollow seeing as how we know how it’s all gonna play out in the end.
GT Goku couldn't count and doesn't know how to use strategy in battle. he's waaaaaaay more stupid and dumb compared to super goku. Atleast in super goku was smart in battle.
moonsmonsters yeah when they ended get they clearly were doing it with the intention of the whole series ending for good. You can tell just by what they did but Super didn’t have that final feel because it’s coming back, not to mention the manga is still going
We got a form of it in DBS, with S Broly. I doubt DBS will ever make 4 canon, as it's a GT only thing, but it'll definitely use the principles of it. And S Broly is basically that character. But, who knows, maybe they will give us actual SS4 in DBS. :/ Though, if that does occur, I do NOT want Goku nor Vegeta to have it, as they have their own paths to power going on rn (Goku with his Angel power, and Vegeta with his God power). If anything, I'd want Broly to evolve his Ikari and SS power so much, that it would basically become something like SS4. :D That way, we have a GT thing in Super, and it works.
@@preds43 yeah I'd like Broly to get SSJ4. And Gohan to continue down his own Mystic path like in the manga. Would also like Future Trunks to get his own thing in non god SSJ but he did show flashes of Blue, so he'll probably cap out at SSJ Blue.
No, please never let that be canon. If that happens, then people will just be mad and complain about DBS rehashing stuff again, and they would actually be justified to complain in that situation. I'm a fan of bringing back the CONCEPT of SSJ4, but not the form itself, maybe we can get an expansion of the Ikari form that Broly had.
@@preds43 yeah that’s basically exactly all that I’m asking for. Sounds very fitting and yes I wouldn’t enjoy it as much if Goku n Vegeta got this.. sounds perfect the way you described it for Broly👍 thank you.
Opinions aside, I gotta say I really appreciate that GT had mostly consistent on model art. In most of the GT clips shown in this video the characters look good while on the Super clips half of them look really off and weird.
Thats kinda my thing, while there are some absolutely STUNNING visuals in super, the consistency is just not there man. Its bad enough to me that i just can't watch it despite Dragonball being my favorite series for the longest time. I just can't get past it.
Only the first two arcs where they didn’t try with animation because there’s already a movie version with some of the best animation to in Dragon ball has ever seen so...
Bro you clearly havent watched gt, tho the clips shown here was good, GT's usual quality is god awful at times, characters move so damn slow its painful
tyguy360Gaming Dragon Ball has come so far my man lol. What’s even crazy is that for a long time there was a point where none of us knew the franchise was gonna continue. Bless you Akira Toriyama !!🙏🏽🙏🏽
Man, Goku was an idiot throughout all of Buu Saga, he just never got called out for it. Of course he does act more serious, but that's about it, and even then Super Goku acts more serious against the real villains (Black and Jiren), but is more lighthearted for a friendly competition (like against Hit). Goku's only problem in Super is he forgets critical information or is ignorant of something obvious. But then, in the Cell Saga, Goku barely understood his own son and dismissed his own heart disease against the Androids, and in the Buu Saga he didn't even consider what's wrong with expecting 2 toddlers to take down the biggest threat to the universe. And yeah, there's the whole SS3 debacle. Regardless, in Super he doesn't make "anti-Goku" decisions throughout the entire ToP, he's friendly and honest for the U6 tournament (a lower stakes battle), his weaknesses are exploited against Frieza (the one person who can exploit his weaknesses), and while he's a fool in the Goku Black arc, it's not like evil containment would just win anyways as Goku and Vegeta were still losing to Black already who could save Zamasu in a second, him not knowing what a kiss is is a stupid nitpick to complain about of all things, and him forgetting senzu beans...is pretty dumb of him, yes, but not any dumber than practically letting Buu resurrect to satisfy Vegeta's ego.
I’m not sure how that would be possible with super saiyan god super saiyan existing over a decade before get in the timeline. I would love for it to happen though.
@@jage6344 dbgt can always make a comeback maybe but imagine zeno once sitting and basically reversing the time back and not waking up beerus cuz he wanna see how much strong goku will get without God ki ik it sound stupid but it can happen!!
@@SprinklesServant many things Too many Why did trunksn goten become smaller Why was goku suddenly retarded And dafuq was that with the tingling back And too many other things
Goku in GT: Gets turned into a child by black balls Goku in Super: Gets turned into a child by the writers (Disclaimer: This is a joke don't take it too seriously)
What's not funny is it actually works...I was getting ready to really laugh my ass off when it didn't even scratch the entity that was nearly unfazed by SSjB Vegito and caused him to de-fuse.
I always thought Baby’s final look was interesting as he’s embraced the beastial side of the aliens that killed his world. A side even the remaining Saiyans neglect until this point in the story. It kind of was the ultimate slap in the face of the Saiyans in visuals alone. Idk I liked it, but Super Baby 2 is my fav of his styles.
Personally, Gt's ending feels like a "Goodbye" but Super's ending feels like a "see you later" kind of ending. By this I mean that one ending is more definitive that the other
With GT’s ending, it felt like a ‘this is it. This is the end. The best you’re getting after this is video games’ With Super’s, it was more ‘yeah, we’re gonna keep milking this as hard as possible for as long as possible’
@@tylercoon1791 super still a better show, i woukd rather see a good show end like gt than a shit one cuz it takes out all the emotion in it, u look back at the series and think, there wasnt anything that good to remember so you have to go to dbz and og db to be like yup this is a good ending.
@@pastjdzz hard disagree. With GT, you get an arc that tries to replicate the style of the Pilaf arc of Dragonball, but ends up being mediocre, an arc that both plays around with the idea of body snatchers and expands on the lore of the saiyans, along with giving us one of the coolest super saiyan forms in SSJ4, an ok-at-best arc that acts as more of a transitionary from arc 2 to arc 4, and ends off with SSJ4 Vegeta, SSJ4 Gogeta, the shadow dragons which gives consequence to all wishes made prior, and ends off with a great end. Super, on the other hand, has a mediocre remake of an ok movie, a mediocre remake of a shitty movie, a boring tournament arc, some convoluted time travel shit that goes on way too long, and ends off with the ToP, which takes the worst aspects of the previous two arcs by being a boring tournament arc that goes on way too long
@@tylercoon1791 nah man you're making gt seem like it was an ok show when it wasnt, the first arc was crap, like u said it urslef they tryna be ogdb but shittier, whole arc was boring and really did nothing excpet stuff that felt like bad filler eps, and it is nowhere near as bad as supers first arc, however its second arc was good, in gt standards, it went and explained why this parasite wanted revenge on the saiyans and id say thats a better arc than the ressu-f saga. But even how "not good" the trunks saga was it wasnt as bad as "super fking 17" an Abomination of an arc that does nothing except introdouce the next arc towards the end. And dont even get me started on why the ToP was boring, at that point you're just being petty, ppl enjoyed it and would prolly say that its the best arc of the whole anime and your "shadow dragons" is way worse than the ToP arc. The only thing that is acctualy better in gt was its ending
I remembered one thing from GT in terms of character growth albeit minor, Vegeta was the first to suggest fusing into Gogeta, normally it took Goku bugging him into fusing.
DBS still had more development for Vegeta. I loved that Vegeta took up the master role with Cabba and Vegeta also going to train under Whis for the first time showed that he pushed away his pride and finally admits that he doesn't need to be a lone wolf for everything. Whis and Beerus were the first person Vegeta ever trained with since he was a kid.
@@jantheking7028 Yeah I liked Vegeta's arc in Super as well, him becoming more mature instead of basically obsessing over being the best at all times, accepting training from others that sort of thing.
@@jantheking7028 Bruh, they retconned Vegeta's character just for that arc to occur.... Again. Dude acknowledged and became less obsessive with Goku after the final fight with Buu. It kinda makes his development (Again) pointless and not good whatsoever.
@@iman5147 No, he was only less obsessive with Goku in the moment of the Buu arc, just like he had done on Namek before Frieza killed him. He hardly obsessed with Goku in DBS, the only time where he might've done it is in the Tournament of Power when Goku got Ultra Instinct. The Moro arc shows that Vegeta isn't obsessed with Goku anymore, or at least as much as he used to be.
Soulmakka don’t think you quite understood the point he saying that all these heartfelt goodbyes work as a closing to dragon ball as a whole but not for gt piccolo showed up for like 5 scenes if you haven’t watched it dragon ball your not gonna care about that interaction in gt
@@Binks7077 so by that then... LOTR: Return of the King had an awful ending as it relied on the previous two films for it's send off lol. GT just like Super isn't a separate story. It is a continuation of a story that begun in dragonball.
@@lapplandkun9273 Yes let's compare the guy who grew up in a world of peace and prosperity (Rich AF family) vs a guy who spent months (years?) fighting for their lives and money had no value.
The problem in my opinion with both of them is that neither of them are focussing on the next generation. Like focus on Goten, Trunks and Gohan a bit more than just bringing them for humour or when you feel like it. I feel like Gohan could be made such a good and strong character especially since he defeated cell. Vegeta and Goku are awesome but they are getting old literally (since their like in their late 40's) and they should train their younger sons like Goku trained Gohan. I feel like Goku paid A Lot of attention to Gohan in terms of bonding and training together in comparison to Goten who just feels like his Gohan's younger brother and not Goku's son. They're meant to be 12 but look like they're 8 lol.
I like GT because it felt like Dragon Ball at the beginning, before Z. I grew up in Mexico and we had the original Dragon Ball air before Z, so GT had a more nostalgic feeling.
A lot of the reason to love DBGT is nostalgia based. I watched the entire dragon ball series in 2015, and I watched DBS in 2018 and I liked DBS a lot more than DBGT. DBGT peaked at the Baby arc and I was uninterested at the Super 17 saga. I got interested again for the shadow dragons, but the arc disappointed me because of how weak it made some of the dragons despite hyping them up beforehand. I watched it all at once, so it might be that I was burned out when I got to DBGT, but with that in mind I did prefer DBS to DBGT. It's just an opinion tho, I plan to watch DBGT again in a couple of years to see if it was really as bad as I remember.
I liked GT as a kid. They were back to adventures, but now in space. Everyone grew up and it was interesting how they changed. Goku running through villains in space made sense, they weren't a universal threat like Buu.
Eh it sounds good on paper but it was executed horribly. There could’ve been crazy new adventures, but instead they just ripped off the original db adventures to shove nostalgia in our faces. That’s the exact reason they turned goku into a kid lmao. You could say it was to nerf him, but when you nerf the main character the other characters get shine and development. Pan and trunks had NONE of that. And that’s ultimately why the first arc failed.
Good idea but horribly done. Like, we've got a bunch of boring nobodies, with poor designs, uninteresting (Or sometimes creepy in a bad way) personalities, with uninteresting powers.
@@lasarousi that's a throwback name. I remember watching that while in my early stages of being a weeb, not leaving my room because I wanted to consume any anime I could find.
Its also good to note that GT was pretty much a fan made love letter to both dbz and the original dragon ball series. And they didnt have anything near the budget or clout super does, not to mention toriyama actually being involved. The fact that they can even be compared despite all that makes a massive argument for GT and makes me wonder how great it could've been if it did have those things
... They still made it though?At the time they thought it was the end why wouldn't they not put all the series moments in what was supposed to be the end and if anything the actual end is the gt movie with g Goku Jr. Super ended knowing it was still going to continue it didn't have the job of closing the series
Literally the most rational argument I ever heard for GT vs. DBS. Most of the time the argument's either that DBS fans aren't true DB fans or that GT fans can't prefer the series because it's "not canon". Great vid!
Nah. It was like the forced those themes into the series, and it was all they could depend on. That’s why the first arc was practically a copy and paste of the original adventures just with worse quality. In the end it never had a true identity. Whenever they had a chance, like giving certain characters development and shine, or executing great ideas the right way, they failed. That’s where I feel super succeeded. Not only did it continue db themes like hardwired, trust, pursuit of happiness, hope, etc. but it added new elements to the franchise.
Also, GT failed in the most important aspect of a db series: fights. Forget the story and all that, they couldn’t even execute fights the right way lol. That’s why super>>>imo.
@@leultrainstinct406 Super has literally no memorable fights, and the designs of the enemies with exception to Goku Black/Zamasu are all terrible. Who can honestly watch Jiren on screen for even a second without laughing/feeling embarrassed for his design? It's pathetic.
One thing GT did better than Super. GT stories tried to deal with changes and consequences all the time and actually making them stick. Goku being weakened. Having to deal with every big bad going forward. Baby being karma of past sins of the Saiyan race. Dragon Balls becoming the enemy after all this time of aiding our heroes due to the characters over reliance on them. Piccolo sacrificing his existence at the end.
this is the reason I like GT more than super. It actually feels weighty. Like the situations actually mean something. Super just has too much tension killing bullshit. Super dragonballs that can do basically anything. Zeno who can just erase any problem ever. Whis who can turn back time. Not too mention random power spikes like spirit sword bomb trunks thing. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate super. But i prefer gt to it.
Baby: "I will stop Saiyans from becoming rampaging apes and destroying planets! -- I will stop them by becoming a rampaging ape and destroying planets!!"
Baby wasn't designed to STOP the saiyans. They had already long-since won. Baby was designed to take REVENGE on the saiyans, and destroying the world where the remaining saiyans live fits the bill to me. There's also a slight irony. "This is what YOUR race did to countless worlds. How do YOU like it?"
Facts. Especially roshi holy crap that was beautiful. He even god respect from vegeta and the strongest god of destruction. Tien had some nice moments too. The fact he opened his own dojo to teach the next generation was great to see and perfect for his character. But in gt they do absolutely nothing. Only thing krillin did was die lol.
@@meganinten0078 GT is a great finale, but not for GT's merits, if the series was just GT it wouldn't be as good as it is, if at all because Goku's goodbye to his friends means nothing without DB and DBZ, as everyone but Goku and Pan do either very little or nothing at all, and all Pan does is getting into trouble for Goku to save her, even Vegeta gets left behind, his only contributions to the series being getting taken over by Baby and fusing with Goku, and while those are big moments he's just a plot device rather than a character with actual agency that shapes the story, and worst of all in my opinion, despite being one of the three main characters, at least until the final arc, Trunks is only there to drive Goku and Pan around. what I'm trying to say is that GT's finale only works if you know Dragonball already, while Super's finale serves as a good end to its own series, and even that relies on DB and Z's nostalgia though not as much.
GT had the best ending out of every DB series, it basically sums of everything the Z warriors went through. A chilling moment of what the future may be
@@rifter4478 yes, she's the daughter of a half saiyan and a human, meaning she's 1/4 saiyan, her saiyan blood is the reason why the Super Saiyan God ritual was possible
Funny thing is, it didn't happen because no one could figure out how to draw a female Super Saiyan, even after they asked Toriyama how he would do it, so they just... didn't.
Spoiler alert: The show with villains that steal other people's bodies and have crazy strong entities fight Goku and Vegeta in the final arc is the best show of the two.
@David Loisel Its almost like you forgot the gods shenanigans. Super would have been nothing without the gods. Goku also never won a major battle in Super. Lost against Beerus, Hit, Frieza, Goku Black, Fused Zamasu and Jiren. (Jiren actually beat him in MUI until he received the power of friendship-stinct)
i really love the part when SSJ4 Goku gets really serious when Pan gets absorbed. Goku makes a speech that life is nothing without freedom, and builds up rage because one of the shadow dragons took away Pan’s freedom. It really moved me when Pan screams to Goku to kill her off with the dragon, And that to me shows that Pan is not just a kid but a true Z-Warrior that is willing to die for her planet and friends. (Also I really love SSJ4 and Dragon Fist)
it also really sucks that they couldnt think of a name for the new transformation and just lazily called it SSJ4. because in reality its the Ascended Oozaru form which imo is the "true" potential of the Saiyan.
@@Lord_Dranek Goku believed grandpa gohan was in the 4 star dragon ball and felt a personal attachment to it. I like the idea of the best things for goku always being attached to the number 4
DBZ even suffered from not being able to part with certain characters for too long. They loved keeping these characters on the sidelines to cheerlead, take bearings and ooh and awe at Vegeta and Goku. I can appreciate greatly GTs mentality of "if you aren't going to use these characters get them out of here."
I don't think it's GT's fault so much in the Utilziation of the other characters well most of the old cast anyway. If nothing else it is consistant with Z's ending, everyone's either too old or moved on or both. Goku's the only one that really earnestly continues his training because of course he would which leads slight credence to 'Goku Time'. Vegeta mellowed out in Z so it explains his characterization, the Humans just stick to whatever they would do living out the rest of their lives with likely Tien only training cause he's the most discplined. Goten and Trunks could of done more to have the torch passed on to them, but even Z showed they grew out of fighting in most cases so it is consistant. Gohan well he wasn't humilated like well Super, if nothing else he showed he could have the life he wanted while being some what combat capable if needed. The real mixed development was furthering Pan, Uub and argubly Bra/Bulla(Though she was basically Bulma 2.0)
@@Naruku2121 Gohan, as poorly as he was treated in Super, at least did something. Gohan in GT was useless, he didn't even have his ultimate Gohan form, he never took a single 1v1 fight unless you count under Baby's control against Vegeta (even then I think Goten joined in at the end?), in big fights all he did was get blown away and feed energy to Goku.
@@Junebug89 I did say some what capable. His highs may not been as much as Super's even if that's still some what marginal. But his low's in GT is definitely not compared to being humiliated into a pathetic slump that could barely even go ssj anymore.
Super made every character relevant. They all had their moments. All of them. And that was wonderful. They made technique important again and stopped being so obsessed with characters who are so much more powerful that they make everyone useless. So obsessed with power levels. The best thing they ever did in super was making power levels far more vague. Hell they even brought back future trunks and made him more interesting and gave him more character development and more to do than even z. Suowe does so much right that makes up for what they did wrong. Gt has nothing. Nothing other than designs I guess. The story is trash, the fights do NOTHING new, they loop animation constantly again, theres no technique going on, the stories are dont feel like dragon ball, it feels like fan fiction, and there is ZERO character development for a single character in gt. None. Even goku is far far far more one note in gt.
Saiya is yasai backwards in Japanese, meaning vegetables. Jin is just a kanji to denote belonging ... サイヤ人 (saiya-Jin) it’s a pun name in vegetables itself.
Yea wow, what a great villain, I liked the part where all of the character development we got for him was him seeing rock men kick each other, and that's it, it's not even like the way he goes about his plan is cool or smart, its borderline impossible first of all, but that's one of many dragon ball plot holes so that gets a pass, but it's so contrived, why didn't anyone stop zamasu, why didn't Zeno care or kill him( the manga does it a bit better) OH and I love the part where they don't destroy the planet even though that they can and that would kill everyone on it but that would effectively stop the arc,and the part where the killed all the gods but and tried to destroy the multiverse but no one stopped him even besides the gods,and how they retconned the earnings for no reason at all and actively contradict multiple things, and how trunks gets a bullshit form for no reason or explanation that noone else has, or how the whole arc could have been solved if Goku wasn't turned into a idiot
An interesting Baby v. Goku Black note is that the encounter with Baby directly shapes the final narrative arc of GT and the overall theme, the over use of the dragon balls. Whereas Goku black as an arc does little for the overall narrative of Dragon Ball Super or the character's development.
@@renatonovoa8125 I don't think we really needed the Goku Black Arc for that aspect. I think the Tournament of Power demonstrated that better with Zeno mercilessly deleting universes left and right
The argument basically boils down to, “Was the Baby arc better than all of super?” I love Baby, but his arc just wasn’t enough to carry the rest of the show.
This is Mark's subjective POV. For me, I did enjoy parts of Super 17 and Evil Shenron arc. Not to say they're good or anything but there are elements that I like especially the latter.
The rest of GT was half the length of Super so Baby's arc absolutely carries it. The question you should be asking is "Was the ToP arc enough to carry the rest of the show?"
I recently bought the DVD set for GT and did a rewatch, while showing it to my girlfriend as she never watched GT (She did watch DBZ and Super). While the first part was indeed painful to watch, and the action scenes felt plain, she acknowledged the writers put some good effort into the series. The whole Baby arc was great since it feels it derived from Z, and totally believable. The dark dragon saga was also great (in paper of course) because it pays off what the Elder Kai was being speaking since Z regarding the misuse of the dragon balls. And the ending made her cry, because it felt the ending the entire dragon ball franchise deserved.
Bro I am so soo soo emotional person that DBGT made me cry when goku left everyone riding the back of shanron and then they showed the whole journey of goku and it felt so emotional with dan dan kokoro emotional ssj4 theme song ir still makes me feel cry 😭
Baby (the tuffles revenge against the saiyans) and the Shadow Dragons (the group getting a comeuppance for the over-reliance on the dragons balls, which was teased by elder kai in the buu arc) are such amazing ideas for villains. I find anything to do with saiyan lore so enthralling over all the god stuff. a lot of super felt like there were zero stakes and all the new multi-colored gods powers were so uninteresting. I hope eventually the series gets back to saiyan lore and we see more of broly, maybe a new iteration/retelling of baby, and a final satisfying tussle with frieza
Dragon balls just becoming 7 dragons generic villains with diffent powers for over-reliance on dragon balls doesn't make any logical sense . How it is amazing idea?
@@kubakaczmarek2399 First not all of them are generic. It does make sense as the series is called dragon ball and the fact that dragon balls were overused to the point of rendering death pretty much pointless makes for a good arc to show that actions have consequences. True the majority of the shadow dragons weren't interesting but the concept is a great idea for this series. Meanwhile super has 2 tournaments with no real stakes, a resurrection dbz villain with an asspull power up and the only interesting arc turns out to be another body swap/possession we've seen before. While dbgt isn't perfect by any means I can appreciate the attempt at something different vs doing the same thing over like Super did.
@@indifference1015 There wasn't any establish rule that dragon balls can be corupted that come out of nowhere, but It doesn't make any sense that dragon balls become dragons OUT OF NOWHERE.
Super honestly looks and feels like fanwork. Even late into the show the art style is lacking, everyone looks plastic and the backgrounds look fuzzy or washed out in many scenes. DBGT had a lot of issues, but I certainly think it felt more like Dragonball and to a lesser extent Z than Super ever did, especially given Super inexplicably took a leaf from the simpsons and turned their main character into a simple minded idiot who constantly acts like an asshole
and that's balanced out completely by the animation... Super has dozens of fast, super expressive, incredibly elaborate sequences of sakuga animation, the Goku vs Gohan fight, Frieza's battle with the Assassins then Goku, Gohan vs Saonel and Pirina, every fight with Jiren, every fight with Black, some small sections of the Beerus fight. and dozens of other cuts across the board. GT's animation is fan-made-tier. relying far more on loops and motion tweened graphics over static backgrounds. The show also basically ditches the concept of choreography as a whole, relying on static characters firing lines of ki-blasts to make animation simpler and cheaper. If I were to rank all the sequences of animation into a combined list from both series, I'm not sure GT would have an animation sequence in the top 30.
@jesus barrera so what you're saying is because DB and Z are from 89-95 they have bad animation and choreography too? Cause that's not a statement I can agree with for multiple reasons. The year it was made in has nothing to do with the fact that gt did nothing special with it's animation.
@jesus barrera you say "no shit sherlock...." but this isn't video-gaming... it's not rendering... it's ANIMATION... MOVEMENT, the fundamentals don't change. Snow White from 1938 still has fucking beautiful movement. And Dragonball is far older than GT, but has far better animation sequences.... (Goku vs Roshi, Goku vs Tien, Yamcha vs Tien, etc....) so your argument isn't obvious... because it's ABSOLUTE horseshit
Vegeta's changes were way more subtle in GT, which seemed more realistic, imo. Vegeta is Super seems like a completely different person and almost no real time had gone by between Z and Super. In GT, you have him showing little insecurities, like his moustache. Taking Bra out shopping. You have that moment in the end, where he did in fact call himself an Earthling, with Saiyan pride. Those would have been his last words if it weren't for Goku saving him.
@@saiyan_og9678 i don't think so, he felt like he was just vegeta from the cell/android saga most of the time. But his daddy vegeta stuff was sparse but rather good around bulla being born and the amusement park
@@jantheking7028 I want you to mention a single memorable villain that doesn’t just use his fists to beat Goku. Moro at the start was unique and great, then just became a knockoff Cell. They always manage to completely destroy potentially amazing villains. It’s sad. Gohan should’ve become the main character after Goku’s death. Also, death has no consequence. There’s always the dragon balls, and they completely ignore the fact that you can only be revived twice. Goku died more times than that. Vegeta should’ve permanently died in the Buu Saga, Goku in the Cell Games, etc.
GameWithAdam In a completely different series (Babylon 5), they thought the show is being cancelled, so they made the final closing episode. However they got one more season, so they just moved it to the end of that one. I had the same feeling here. It was recorded at the end of Z, and just moved to the GT.
GT had better concepts but really bad execution IMO, and as for animation, we have to remember that Super has the advantage of 20 more years of animation technology. But super was just really, really freaking stupid.
Thats not right. Animation had already reached a high level by GT's time. There hasn't been any significant advancement in 2d. And GT had some really stupid ideas. Android 17 and Hell fighter 17 are just dumb. The bigger problem is how much those ideas relied on previous DB storylines, making them fanfictiony.
I feel like super’s development in super saiyan blue was too rushed, we didn’t really get a history or scenes where Vegita and Goku achieve super saiyan blue.
@@raphaels33 I didn't like the ending, it was too mysterious with the ending. Like it didn't even explain what deal shenron made with Goku, or why Goku chose to abandon his family for the rest of his life.
@@jantheking7028 goku acctualy died on the battle again sheron he made a pact to sheilong to keep him alive for the last time the last batle at least ultil defeat sheron ... goku knew It vegeta knew It but they make misterious for us for the plot purpose ... I think was pretty creative and unique.
GT's character designs are fucking rad. Look, Omega Shenron practically RADIATES his evil aura, while Jiren looks like that one weird alien watching me sleep outside the window.
It wasn’t all that tbh. Just a big ass head with giant spikes on his back lol. It was better than jiren’s tho. But compare that to characters like Moro, Granolah, Merus, beerus, goku black, the angels, etc. it’s not really a contest.
Call me crazy, but I feel like mark was a bit biased on the ending bit. GT was supposed to be a final send off to Dragon Ball. A way to clearly end the series as a whole. Super didn't feel nearly as impactful to me personally
But I think he's right that the ending of GT felt more like a send off to Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. GT itself was barely a factor in that ending at all. It's an ending that shows you all of the good times with the series and is meant to be a sendoff of the whole franchise, while almost completely excluding any memories from the last third of the franchise, the series we just watched, almost like it's admitting that GT itself wasn't really worth remembering fondly. It's a good ending for the franchise, but a bad ending for GT. Super meanwhile has an ending that fits the specific series and was never meant to be the end of the franchise, so it comes off fitting far better overall.
@@DevilHunter1994 also there's the fact that both Tien and Yamcha don't even get ANY dialog in the ending(plus the whole show). In GT tien has like five seconds of screen time and Yamcha has the less than that
Funny things is: people praise Super for being "made by Toriyama" when both GT's initial character designs and story were made and suggested, respectively, by him as well.
Toriyama had no story involvement with GT. All he did was give some advice about the initial character designs and positions. That's the whole point. The Toriyama element was missing in terms of story. That's why GT's story is so different and relies on spin off ideas of existing lore. It's how fans right.
Lmao what are you on??? Toriyama made a handful of designs and THAT WAS IT. He did not like gt. He did not write a single story for gt. Not one. If he did, he would t have ditched gt entirely like he did and made it completely non cannon. He purposely did that.
My only issue with Super and where I'd give GT the upper hand is the villains and the power dynamics and how they work. Starting with Villains, GT was undoubtedly better to me. Specifically Baby and the Shadow Dragons. Yes, Super had some okay villains but none were really inspired. Beerus was like Z Broly, a powerful force that could destroy like half the universe and couldn't be stopped by the Saiyan duo alone. Goku Black is a color swapped Goku that just hates mortals. They literally just brought Frieza back for like no reason. Purple Vegeta was just weird. And then some characters only had the perks of being cool like Hit and Jiren. Hit was a walking JoJo reference, English VA included, and Jiren was Space Kenshiro. Whereas GT had Baby and the Dragons. Baby was basically the culmination of the sins of the Saiyan race. Even coming back to bite it's royal bloodline. The shadow dragons were created by the use of the Dragon Balls in Z, which is a nice way of coming full circle. Also GT just had cooler designs. And now we get to power dynamics, or transformations... this is probably where people are gonna hate me. The God Ki stuff was stupid. I don't understand why they went that route and it never really made sense to me. Like, 5 Saiyans can make a God Saiyan somehow and Goku is magically a god now. SSGSS or Super Saiyan Blue was also really weird to me and also never really made sense to me either. Why did they stop at just SSJ? SSB was about Ki Control... so if Goku or Vegeta perfected SSJ3, then added God Ki to get SSB3... wouldn't that just solve most of their problems? Goku could probably train and stack Kaio-ken on it too. I guess what I'm getting at is they introduced a new powerful, albeit odd, energy and did nothing with it. SSJ4 was introduced as a Saiyan's pinnacle, and that was it. Now we have UI and Royal Blue or whatever... it begs the question: Where do they go from here? SSJ4 was meant to be a Saiyans full power but it was still grounded and open to expansion. With enough training they could probably break their own limits and get an even more powerful form. UI and Royal Blue put Goku and Vegeta miles further than anyone else and makes things really sureal in terms of scaling. UI makes Goku stupid levels past all of the Z fighters and Vegeta wanted to surpass Goku but in reality kinda didn't even get close because of UI's ability. It just don't work.
I disagree with you a lot, I think the antagonist section should've gone to DBS easily. Beerus is a better character and antagonist than every DBGT antagonist. Zamasu and Goku Black arc better characters and antagonists than every DBGT villain besides arguably Baby (It's debateable, but I prefer Zamasu over Baby). I think Hit had a more unique profression and moveset than anyone in DBGT. I also think Jiren was a better antagonist than Super 17 and Omega Shenron, but that doesn't really say much considering all 3 of them are pretty bad. I agree with you on transformations ad disagree at the same time.
I would go even further about God Ki being stupid. If we really think about it, excluding the idea of the Hakaishin or God of Destruction which I think was really well implemented in the Dragon Ball mythos, everything else about god-hood is fucking terrible. At this point, we've met Kami, the Kaios, the Supreme Kais and fucking Buu who absorbed 2 of those at one point yet God Ki was never mentionned. The Angels make no fucking sense, nor does Zeno. Angels' only known function is to mentor the Hakaishin but that's not even needed since the Hakaishins are already linked to the Supreme Kais, they could have assumed that role. Keep the Universes in check? Supreme Kais and Kaios also do that so what's the point of the Angels other than a higher power ceiling? And if Angels are that powerful and can even manipulate time, why do the lesser gods exist? Clearly they are outmached in literally everydomain except for instant travel. And who the hell is Zeno? Did he create everything? How'd he do so as a stupid child figure? Did he revert himself to a child because he was bored or something? If he is so powerful, why does any god exist? The guy can erase entire universes with a raise of his hand. I like Super but the god stuff, apart from the Hakaishin introduction is, for lack of a better term, god awful
@@jantheking7028 He was talking about character development wise GT had better villains, not who had the coolest powers looks and moves, Baby's story connected back to the original dragonball so did the dragons, & even super 17, Jiren was the most inspired villain in super , Super had cool villains and powers definitely, but story progression was uninspired, look at the consistency of Naruto
@Mathew Sakwa tbh Alot of people I've met that love super are newer gen, and weren't watching dragonball when it was 1st out , Super seems like a side story to commercialize the show , GT was more of a follow up to Z, none the less I feel we can agree the original ending would've been better to have ssj2 gohan actually fight cell and become the main protagonist from there , with ssj2 being the max level a saiyans can reach
@@nasraken1971 Character development wise? I don't think you know what character development is, because if we are talking about character development for the antagonists, then that easily goes to DBS. Frieza in DBS Broly had development from the completely revenge obsessesd Frieza from Resuerection F. Zamasu developed as a character as he gradually slipped deeper and deeper into his ideology until it consumed and basically turned him into an entirely different person. Jiren had development in the sense that the Tournament of Power taught him that pure power isn't the "be all, end all" and it also taught him about the value in his teammates. None of the DBGT villains antagonists had development or a progression in their character.
Opachopp I mean GT ruined Goku’s character too... Goku was portrayed bad in the first half of Super yes but in the TOP he becomes good again. Plus Super made some of the characters better than they ever were. Perfect examples are Frieza and Android 17.
Yea, but the fusion itself was ruined, they literally copy and pasted Vegito's personality and put it on Gogeta. Gogeta isn't supposed to have a joking around personality, he is supposed to be serious and get the job done.
@@jantheking7028 And that literally what killed ssj4 Gogeta, He could have been powerful and would have shown all kinds of different moves and powers or different unique abilities to make him the OP monkey saiyan fighter to defeat that shadow dragon, but they made him a joke, and that's really such a wasted potential character for him to become.
@@MeatYourDEMYRO Wouldn't it make sense that gogeta would be like vegitom Vegeta has the dominant personality, so it's likely that gogeta was going to be like vegito
Goku is characterised better in GT than in Super and Vegeta is (more or less) the same in both give or take a few things. GT Goku is very intelligent for the most part, in contrast to Super Goku who is even more childlike than he was in Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball
@@HeavyMetalBeliever ultra instincts isn't a transformation but rather a Technique where goku in his base has better control of his movement. Now ssg to ss4 is a much topic of discussion interms of whats makes more sense story wise.
@@janetgarrenson5526 I preferred SSJ4 to SSG/SSGSS even though SSG/SSGSS was implemented a lot better in comparison. Goku becoming SSJ4 for the first time is one of my favourite transformation sequences in the entirety of Dragon Ball, so there's a slight amount of bias towards it (for me, anyway).
You almost got me, but saying that Super's "Ending" was a better ending than GT's was the nail in the coffin man. Like, sure, you might be a GT hater and stuff, but I can't even try to believe that Super's "ending" was more impactful than GT's. Call it nostalgia or not, Super's "ending" doesn't excite me as much, nor it makes me tear up. GT's on the other hand felt like a proper ending. Sure, Super's "ending" isn't actually an ending, because they WILL milk the series further more FOR SURE, but like I said, I didn't felt remotely excited to see the future. I just "pray" that it is better than it was until now. If it gets the same treatment, I'll still be like "Cool.", and nothing more than that. GT's ending makes me think of the whole series in a single episode, seeing Goku kinda "retracing" his steps and his journey, while giving us a proper feeling of "Wow, this was the ending. I'm glad for this series as a whole, even despite some GT arcs being pretty mid or bad". Super's "ending" makes me think "Wow, Goku sure is strong huh haha. Back to my usual stuff now". The ending doesn't have much "character" as the GT one did. Therefore I HARDLY disagree with half (If not most) of the video's arguments. But everyone have their opinion on stuff like that, and honestly, no one here is particularly "right or wrong", since they both have a different approach and stuff like that. But I do think that GT feels way less of a "hype train" or a "cash grab" than Super, in most instances. Sure, GT completely tried to "surf" on DBZ's hype and stuff, because it was HUGE back then, but you can feel the passion in some instances throughout the anime, especially the most "common knowledge" thing here, which is the ending, that makes people tear until this day. Super in the other hand, sometimes feel jarring to watch, because you KNOW Goku will win, or IF he gets close to "dying", he will transform in Super Sayian fucking orange or SUPER MEGA ULTRA INSTINCT and beat the shit out of the antagonist. Super FEELS like it is just something you watch to unlock your neurons to some good old punch and magic spamming, other than watching for the story and stuff. My point is, Super is just a "hype driven anime", making you go "Cool." more than "Omg, what will happen after this?", which isn't a bad thing, but completely throws the development the characters had prior to Super. GT is more of an adventure anime, with some good fights here and there, but makes you feel pressed against a wall more times than Super ever did. It has it's "Deus Ex-Machina" moments, like the Super Saiyan 4 stuff and such, but I personally prefer getting 1 "overpowered form" (Or 2, if you also count Gogeta SSJ4) over about 3 overpowered forms (Discounting fusions, which add to the stupidity of the power level numbers), one getting more overpowered than the last one (And we all know that they won't stop making more forms as the show goes on). It honestly feels just like I said, you get "hyped" to see what ridiculous different form they will create for characters next time (Look at the new DBS Super Hero movie XD). It's not particularly a bad thing if you just want the action, but if you want ANYTHING OTHER than the action, you won't get much quality and development as it once had, in DB, DBZ and heck, even DBGT. I hope I didn't look like I wanted to offend anyone or anything, but just like Mark shared his opinions, I wanted to share mine. We're both probably "wrong", but there's no actual "right or wrong" in opinions, like I said, when it is a personal preference thing. And I also hope that I was able pass my thoughts and opinions straight, not making it redundant nor confusing to understand. I also grew up with this series being a huge part of my life, not just my childhood, so of course there is a bit of nostalgia trip still in me, but I honestly tried to throw most of the nostalgia out of the way as I wrote this comment, and try to not make it extremely biased, but also making sure that I got my points and arguments as I honestly feel like they are.
So ... Original Dragonball review when? In all seriousness, amazing job these past few months reviewing these two series. You made a lot of good points and I had fun watching how you edited the material. Can’t wait to see what’s next!
It'd get no negative points. It's just a perfect series. It starts off as a gag anime with light villainy and then goes to training and a tournament with every unique concept in combat on each tournament. Red ribbon Tao and Piccolo were like the absolute evil entities for earth compared to other villains in series giving those villains the highlight they deserve instead of trying to make more evil villain than Frieza and failing everytime and it ends with Goku marrying ChiChi. For God's sake best Dragon Ball series there with not much plothole like how Krillin could cut frieza with solar flare and destructo disc while he used Kamehameha in budokai tenkaichi just to blind Goku for the kick he was preparing.
@@prabalkamra7763 only 10 people gave there energy in TOP on the other hand when Goku used Spirit Bomb against omega people from many planets shared their energy. Screw GT spirit bomb , even Spirit Bomb used against buu was stronger than TOP spirit bomb.
GT was an attempt to return to the fun adventure of the original dragon ball, but this was difficult because the scale of Z made conflicts dull to begin with. Super double-downed on the huge scale conflicts of Z seeing as how the whole series is just a big tournament arc with a handful of antagonists sprinkled in
That has never been a thing with Super, so we don't know if that is actually the case. ALso, having Goku randomly not using the Kaioken would be strange
@@nuredingeziqi679 Yea, thats what I'm wondring. If the anime is going to follow the manga now, what will happen to things like SSBK, Kefla, Kale and even Hit's timeskip ability? SSB kaioken was never in the manga, and Kale in the manga has a completley different personality and character than in the anime. Even Hit's ability to "improve" in the middle of a fight wasn't in the manga.
@@jantheking7028 I assume the anime will go like the manga with some differences here and there, just like the manga was going when anime was ahead of it
Unpopular Opinion: Rewrite GT to fit with super, while keeping aspects of the old arc and show. Remake it to be better, not just so we can finally label it as "Cannon."
That would be a good way to end the fandom war, but honestly I don't want that to happen because I hate everything in DBGT except SSj4, but it is too late to add SSJ4 to DBS, it was surpassed with SSG Goku.
you ever notice there's a split time line? it's based on whether or not the Garlic Jr Saga happens, I bring this up because plot points of the Garlic Jr Saga appear in GT, that and whether or not Beerus wakes up.
That's right, Dende used the Sacred Water, which was introduced in the non-canon Garlic Jr arc, to fix everyone from Baby. A non-canon item was used in a once-canon continuation of an already inconsistent series. This is so fucked.
KiwiVibes you know Dragon Ball is a manga originally, right? Garlic Jr. Saga was filler. It was a sequel to a movie made into an arc, to give time to the manga to get ahead.
The one aspect I had a problem swallowing was the character design itself. Even though there was not any character development in DBGT as such, the character design were far superior than the DBS. DBGT had really cool and attractive designs like Super Saiyan 4, Baby Vegeta, Omega shenron, super 17, whereas DBS had Goku in black outfit, Purple Jelly Vegeta, Malnutrition Saiyans, character resembling each other like Zamasu looking like tall and green version of supreme Kai. The only actual strong looking antagonist was Jiren. That’s the only reason I personally feel that GT had a upper hand.
I also say that the characterization was superior in GT when accounting for time. DBS vegeta feels like he is being borrowed from GT. DBGT Goku is objectively better and more mature than DBS goku. Goten is awesome and became a lady-killer stepping out of the goku and gohan farmboy/isolation charm, Trunks became the calm one despite being the trouble maker as a kid, and overall each character felt like they grew in those 15 years, even if we didnt see it
@@GokuInfintysaiyan what about GT's Gohan? also what do you mean Goten became a lady-killer stepping out of the Goku and Gohan farmboy ecc...i'm just curious cause you're the fist one ever that liked Goten GT's version...
Alex Matejic Yeah GT Gohan isn’t a bitch either and actually gave a shit when piccolo died Also that’s straight horseshit. There are entire threads of how cool GT Goten is by being different from the rest of the cast and brining back one of the cooler parts of Yamcha. Many people like GT Goten
@@GokuInfintysaiyan Are you insinuating that DBS Gohan was a bitch? I mean if he had stayed the same as he was before TOP I would agree but considering TOP exists I think they did a lot more with Gohan than GT ever did.
Vegeta during gt had development though theres scenes like when him and goku were gonna fight and when goku got hungry vegeta just starting laughing. Its a little scene but its a fun moment of vegeta. GT bulit off of vegetas character during the buu saga and did a lot more than what they did to him in super. Lets also remember that vegeta brought up fusion when in both dbs and the buu saga had vegeta complaining about fusing with goku. Theres also vegeta's motives and that he let bulma give him more strength. If you wanna see more just watch Sal the saiyan's video about GT Vegeta's motives
Now if you think about it Vegeta GT's development really is kind of the pinnacle of Vegeta's development. Okay maybe that sounds a bit too much, but it does show a much mellowed out aproach, while Super had Vegeta's personality circling at various points. Vegeta's willingess to fuse with Goku is a magnitude in his character. Even his Ssj4 transformation, while maybe a lot of people and some die hard Vegeta fans take issue with him needing help and maybe even the method itself it actually cements the bond and love he has for Bulma that he claims to have after of course that sacrifce and his change in the Buu Arc.
God Of Savages they made Vegeta a fool some of the times in Super. Like the bingo dance and him suddenly cooking for Beerus and Whis. I found those moments hard to watch. Super did really well with Vegeta though, just not entirely in my opinion. GT did better in my opinion, as Vegeta is shown to have developed. He asks for help with a transformation (which you wouldn’t catch DBS Vegeta doing that at all), and he even brings up fusion without complaining. Vegeta in Super had to constantly be told “Hey, world is on the line. Do you want Bulma dead?” then bam, he’ll fuse. They did that THREE times, which it got annoying.
God Of Savages True, but in GT, Vegeta asked help from someone he cares about dearly. As in Super, Whis was just a mentor and that’s it, nothing too special to Vegeta (even though Whis is Vegeta’s first mentor).
You didn't even touch on the transformations. GT had one major new form with SSJ4 and it wasn't until the final arc, and involved a new method of attaining the form than just Goku powering up again. Super had about 4 new forms by the end, and there was nothing particularly creative about any of them.
ScandalousPanda ok? first of all he’s not taking about design and 2nd all of the canon ssj transformation barely change your appearance except ssj3 and that’s just longer hair And this dude got many things wrong in his comment like they got ssj4 in the 2nd arc and he literally got ssj4 by powering up again
@@imedd3191 he didnt get ss4 by just powering up he had to go golden great ape first. its obvious youre a super fanboy so just shut up if you dont even know anything about gt
ScandalousPanda why would he mention ssj4 not powering up if he was only talking about design? Welcome to dragon ball. Mostly Everything’s basic/simple . If you got a problem then to bad
super did more entertainment for me than gt ever did for me even though gt had some interesting ideas it never fleshed out or really did anything for there narrative while super did and gave dragon ball a new future but one thing both series fail at is the fantastic world of dragon ball no longer feels lived in what I mean is what once was lands filled with thousands of stories to tell are now ignored and forgotten even though super has shown new worlds for adventure I don't see it ever going past goku or vegeta for adventures
I think it’s an issue of execution. Dragon Ball GT had much better and more unique ideas, yet in the moment to moment fell flat. Dragons who punish the Earth for their over reliance on the Dragon Balls? Super interesting. Long winded boring episodes that don’t feel satisfying to even watch? Less so. Conversely, Dragon Ball Super’s ideas were less interesting, yet better executed. Yes, an evil Goku and two tournament arcs are perhaps the most uninspired thing you could come up with, but each was executed well enough to be engaging each episode even if they have massive holes. Bad ideas, good execution. It’s the reason people enjoyed the Future Trunks arc when it aired and only really saw that it made no sense looking back. Dragon Ball GT was generally despised during its run, yet has garnered respect all these years later. They are polar opposites to one another, which I think is kinda cool. Edit: I’ve unleashed demons in the comments lol.
I agree dude but even if a Dragon ball GT has a very good execution it still has alot of plotholes but I agree with your points completely. Im not fan of GT nor super.
Idk, GT has a little respect now, but that's because Super divided fans tenfold. If Super didn't shit on Z harder than GT did (in many aspects, but not all of course), GT probably wouldn't have this respect. Not to say GT isn't dogsh_t, but Super definitely missed the mark more and less at the same time, or rather, every other episode, because they literally had new staff each episode. Also Super did execute things well. It executed any hope I had for the future of this series, unless I lie to myself, every other week of course. Horray for inconsistency!
I personally think the Shadow Dragon Saga was better than any other story in GT or Super. The Dragon balls have always been a HUGE part of the DB series, and I think finding a clever way to make there be negative consequences to abusing them over the years was awesome. A power like the Dragonballs should have drawbacks, and those drawbacks being Shadow Dragons with unique personalities that were created by particular wishes was a great idea to me. Sidenote, the Goku Black Saga felt like a remake of the Baby Saga.
Overlord the fights could have been better I’ll admit. But the idea of going back to the roots of dragon ball was a great way to end the entire series.
I absolutely agree and also thought I was among the few people who shared the same sentiment. I thought baby was a cool story arch as well as the shadow dragon saga. I am surprised he kinda just glossed over it. I thought it was very creatively done how they implemented it.
I had large issues with Super's writing and overall tone. I never once felt that there was actual tension in Super as there was in GT. The stakes felt nonexistent despite the Tournament of Power literally having the largest stake out of anything in the Dragonball franchise. I think the best written arc in Super was the Goku Black Arc, and even then, what ruined it was the fact that Goku and Vegeta just retreat whenever to train and recover. A lot of it felt "Sitcom-y" because the tone would feel consistently light even in the show's more serious moments. In GT, I felt the peril of seeing characters die. I didn't think the plot armor felt as thick for a lot of characters (except for Satan). There was no real assurance that our favourite characters would win without consequences whereas in Super, we had Whis who just undos the destruction of Earth like it's nothing, or that Beerus was BFF's with Bulma, or that Zeno was BFF's with Goku. There was just a lot more weight of loss in GT, and you could see the characters acting more human in the face of adversity. The series' biggest deus ex machina now had large ramifications with the Dragonballs having become corrupted, and I still think that is one of the best twists to the Dragonball formula. Super was of course meant to be more comedic and light, but I think its predecessors demonstrated that you could still have comedic moments while having emotionally heavy ones as well. If you don't treat your story seriously when push comes to shove, why should your audience care about what happens next? Even if the large majority of GT felt like filler, the moments that weren't filler felt much more impactful and memorable than anything in Super. That to me, is what Super was missing and why I think GT is superior to Super.
To be fair what killed Super's Tension right off the bat is that it is basically a mid-quel. No matter how grand they try to make the stakes or how many of the main cast dies. We *automatically KNOW* they'll be fine for all those that showed up at the end of Z.
@@Naruku2121 Although I agree that having a predestined conclusion does remove a few options, the main issue is the show's tone treating like there is just the one available. A lot of shows (kid shows especially), we are aware that the "Good guys have to win," but they still create the illusion of that result capable of being taken away through solid writing and emotional manipulation. Super could have pulled this off as well, but just didn't do it very well. I could nitpick every big moment in the series, but at its foundation, I think Super's tone misses the mark compared to GT. GT overall, took itself more seriously and as a result, the audience is able to take it more seriously.
@@codeyvo Yeah, I get the illusion and for the most part yeah "Good guys usually always win in the end." But honestly that illusion can't be weaved when we already concretely know the reality, unless some one's jumping on point for the series is indeed Super and never seen Z's ending, the universal stakes seem to be more of a suspense for the other universes than U7 unless they subverted expectations in that U7 actually lost and maybe Jiren learned something from Goku and his group and then wished them back(Sounds kind of forced given Jiren's Mentality, but this is all hypothetical) Then that would make a lot of people go "Woah WTF?!?!" Atleast for a moment.
@@Naruku2121 I think in regards to creating tension elsewhere, there were a lot of directions Super could have taken with this whole series. More development of the new characters rather than devoting episodes to crappy gag filler would be great: like having an episode dedicated to Hit having to save an assigned assassination target because he/she was an innocent child, or an episode devoted to Cabba having to unleash Super Saiyan for the second time in order to deal with a threat on his planet. A lot of missed potential. Regarding the Tournament Arc (what I believe to be the weakest arc), perhaps if other universes outside of 6-7 had likable characters fleshed out prior, erasure of other universes would make the audience feel more than "huh...." Because that's how the characters in the other universes feel. A lot of the universes just went out as if nothing serious happened. If it were me up there, I would have been like... "I failed my family, my homeworld, trillions of people are going to just get wiped away..." Even if the "I wish to bring back all the erased Universes" was predictable from the start, seeing pathos in characters is a nice touch because it's an example of believable multi-layered writing.
@@codeyvo What I kind of hoped and in some way think still should have happend was when the other universes returned it also brought back those that were also erased prior. That could hold a lot narrative potential.
Honestly, your claims about the ending of GT are extremely unfair and biased. It is simply incorrect to say that GT's ending is only good because of Z. The majority of the iconic and memorable scenes that made GT's ending so epic only work because of GT itself. Two of its best moments are Pan finding Goku's clothes and Pan chasing Goku's ghost at the tournament 100 years later, both scenes only existing because GT introduced Pan and developed her relationship with Goku from scratch, without taking anything from Z. Besides those two, my next favourite scene from the GT ending is Goku shaking hands with Piccolo in Hell. Again this only works because of GT, since otherwise Piccolo would not be in Hell to begin with. The setting made the scene a lot more powerful than it could otherwise have been. It was GT that killed Piccolo. In fact, there is very little from Z in this ending except for the scene with Kuririn and the flashbacks.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
You missed a very important comparison: Vegeta with moustache in GT vs Vegeta with beard in Super
I am sorry but moustache vegeta is the best
beard wins easily
Vegeta's facial hair montage in TFS was the best
Moo-stash
MOUSTACHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
When you realize Super 17’s hair got more care and attention than Pan’s character development.
Oof! Shots fired!
not even a senzu bean is gonna heal that burn
@@comiqueromosses9132 not that gt had senzu beans
LOL! Brilliant.
Dammmn
Best line in both series?
"DON'T SHOOT HE'S NOT *BLACK"*
Edit: This did not age well...
*HOLD YOUR FIRE, THIS MAN ISN'T BLACK*
The Blue Phoenix: Captain Gamer m.ruclips.net/video/cmxBXSxDtdo/видео.html
@@BullRaisedJoey yeah no fuck you
The Blue Phoenix: Captain Gamer I agree with you in both of your comments
when was that said in GT?
I find your favourite villains of each series kinda funny. It almost felt like it boiled down to, which one is better? The Vegeta body snatcher or the Goku body snatcher?
Makes sense that Goku won against Vegeta
@@R.M.CProductions i mean, goku tied on saiyan saga, and lost on buu saga. So they dont fight that often, and vegeta usually wins
@@daka_uri Vegeta caught him off guard in the buu saga, it was a surprise attack, he wasn't even facing him how is that fair
@@R.M.CProductions its not fair, but vegeta won
@@daka_uri Yes, but he won after cheating, he cheated
Baby: "I use the saiyans to destroy the saiyans"
Black: “I use a mortal body to destroy mortals”
"I hate rising rush but still use it"
“I reduced them to atoms”
>Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks confront Zamasu from the past.
Zamasu: You could not live with your own failures. Where did that bring you? Back to me. I thought by eliminating all of the mortals, the world would thrive. But you’ve shown me, that’s impossible. As long as there are forces beyond my control, there will always be those who will try to stop this planet from achieving its true potential of beauty.
Vegeta: Yep. We’re all kinds of stubborn.
Zamasu: I am grateful. Because now, I know what I must do. I will shred this universe down to its last mortal. And then, with the Super Dragonballs you’ve collected for me, create a new one. Teeming with life that knows not what it has lost, but only what it has been given. A grateful universe.
Future Trunks: Born out of blood.
Zamasu: They’ll never know it. *Ki blade* Because you won’t be alive to tell them.
Goku: RRAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!
@@comixproviderftw_02 Wow
17 was the realist with that hair, let’s be honest long hair should always be getting in peoples way
I really want a version of Super 17 in DBS so bad. I love his character design in GT !
BlackShogun 27 Facts bro! GT Super 17 is literally my 2nd favorite villain, his style was just dope!!!
Yes
@@blackshogun272 Beerus was gonna make 17 & 18 potara fuse...
@@akeemheyward bro super 17 was OP. GT was in my opinion very underrated
When he brought up Super’s humor all I could think of was “aaaahhhh Iforgotmytractorbye aaaaaaaahhhhh”
Hold your fire
Spy Fox
This man isn’t black
Aghhh your mom ahhhhh
super's humor >>>>>>>> GT's humor
Preston Garvey facts
I will never not think SSJ4 should have been canon. Besides the cool design, it was a real creative addition onto the concept of a Super Saiyan. Reincorporating the tail and Ozaru (*the actual main unique trait of Saiyans pre-SSJ*) into the Super Saiyan mythos is just such a cool direction, and really seems to tie their lore together.
The Super Saiyan God stuff just feels tacked on to give them new hair color transformations. Here's this random ritual that unlocks GOD POWER! I don't even hate them, it just feels so creatively inferior to SSJ4.
Plus the SSJ4 just fits more thematically as well. To me its the true Super Saiyan form.
@@digizilla164 Yeah, that's what I'm getting at too. The ape was such a key aspect of the Saiyan lore. Requiring mastery of the Ozaru form along with Super Saiyan works so well. Having the resulting form be a marriage between the man and the beast into one body was awesome.
Actually yes the ritual thing was dumb but the new hair color transformation makes sense.Ngl,I'm tired of people who loves ssj4 but call ssg and ssb just a color change.
Like super saiyan god + super saiyan blue make total sense.
Like super saiyan god is just base form combined with god ki which is just KI.What do you expect that combo to do?Make a red haired saiyan come out?It makes sense that goku looks just like he would look in base but the god ki makes him thinner and his hair red.
Then super saiyan blue also makes sense since its just super saiyan being added to god ki.I'd be confused if i saw something like a ssj4 come out of this combo.Like its just SUPER SAIYAN being added to GOD KI.It makes sense that its not that different from their normal ki counterparts.
(Plus I'm not saying that the design of ssj4 is bad.Its good af actually)
@@MrRWord Wasn't saying the changes are nonsensical given the concept they came up with. Just that they aren't interesting or creative additions to the Saiyan lore. God Ki is an interesting concept on its own, but they don't do anything intriguing with it via the transformations. You're right, it's just base Goku and SSJ Goku + God Ki. Absent the story doing anything interesting with what accessing God Ki actually means this is pretty lame.
Plotwise it's just Ritual -> New, more powerful transformations. Maybe if they actually played more with the concept of what a Saiyan *God* (how the Ozaru wouldn't at least be related seems silly to me) actually is before granting the SSG transform, and then actually went into what it took to attain Blue. But the way it's presented in the story really is "they did some stuff, and now Goku and Vegeta have stronger forms (with new hair colors)".
It just seems funny. Saiyans are a warrior race who conquered world's as giant destructive apes. A physical meld between Ozaru and Saiyan seems more like what a Saiyan God would be like, it epitomizes self-control.
I don't even really care that they didn't use the same concept or design (I was actually excited to see what Toriyama would come up with instead), it's just that I don't think what we got instead was nearly as neat as it could have been.
@@LilBoyHexley Ohhh now I get what you meant properly.I like super saiyan god a lot but I have to agree that super saiyan blue could've been done better.Finally I found a gt fan who isn't toxic to me lol.
Baby: wants revenge on Saiyans, steals a saiyans body
Black: Hates mortals and especially saiyans, steals a saiyans body
at least baby had a story behind it, not just some basic ass plot that every alien or AI movie have already beaten to death "huh humans bad, humans kill planet i never heard of before"
@DP91 I'm not talking about it.
@DP91 I'm talking about about a story, not a plot element
@DP91 in 1996 that plot element was unique. In 2015 there's no excuse to make such a basic storyline.
@@geovani60624 It's not even about humans, it's about mortals. It's a divine being disgusted by what he views as the failures of mortals, that's not necessarily award winning but I don't think you can really say that revenge stories are less beaten to death.
Dang, I didn't know Mark liked starting World War 3 in the comment section
The words of vegeta are interesting
DBGT>>>DBS
@@newyear4391 I can say worse if you'd like
@@mattt5105 nonononononononononononono not while you're with your daughter...
(I still prefer the name Bra instead of Bulla.)
You’re not as useless as I thought! As of now, i name you, my Grand Visir!
GT vs Super
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
The real winner is Dragon Ball.
Wow again
Just Some Guy without a Mustache hi
*slams fist on desk*
I say og Dragonball!
Why don't we all sit together to talk about what we love and stop punching eachothers teeth over opinions out?
bruh, man we are just watching the same videos recently, im seeing u absolutely everywhere
I think a missed opportunity in GT during the ending is Goku not visiting/spending time with ChiChi. She would obviously not want to let him go and cook him loads, and eventually Goku could ask for his twelfth portion, only for Chichi to find the table empty by the time she's back. It would show that Goku cares for his wife a bit and say something about him since he chose to have her cooking as his last meal. Just a thought
I would have liked that to happen
Wait yeah what the hell he just left her behind
LMAO I never even noticed this.
That would be cute as fuck
Wtf was the endiny to super 😂 it was goku and vegeta fighting thats it
Whether you hate GT or not, you got to admit that the theme song as well as the instrumental alone is beautiful.
I can't help but shed a tear at the finale. The music, memories and ending just hit harder than a punch from Goku
@@pines3326 SAME!! Ik exactly what you mean!
Facts
I am not a fan of GT but their theme songs are 🔥🔥🔥🔥
@@pines3326 ok
I actually really liked that GT was about the freaking DRAGON BALLS.
Ever since Z started the Dragon Balls have been just a background item.
Interesting note. I'm sure people have had them cross their mind when thinking of db and specifically gt but they dont give it weight. The show is named after them to begin with and while the super dragon balls were used as a tournament prize they still went by the same rules. Maybe its just the end goal and everything else is the journey but they really did forget about them until and because they became so easy to find.
Namek?
Zef exactly what I was about to saw
Agreed especially the idea that they were over used an mostly due to the z fighters wishes they literally had to reap what they had sawn
GT started off being TOO much like an attempt to go back to the way things were in the original series. Didn't get much better afterward.
GT Shin: *Saves everyone*
Super Shin: *Carried on Goku's shoulder like a child*
Don't tell me that scene wasn't funny as fuck. Seeing Goku just act so casually with such powerful and godly beings is kind of part of his charm, at least in my opinion. He manages to touch them and connect with them in a way very few people can, just by being himself. Zeno took a liking to him just because he was acting like himself, and Beerus clearly took a liking to him too with just one fight. Same thing with Hit and even Jiren to a certain extent.
@@infamousplayer8772 Shin still got nerfed.
@@ginogatash4030 he was always a weakling. In the sense that Goku and Vegeta were already way stronger than him in Super Saiyan 2. He was stronger than Cell, and yet that amounted to literally nothing. Yeah he was useless in Super, but he kinda became useless in Z after awhile as well. That's what you get when your God isn't exactly that imposing...
In the Super manga Shin is way more competent and comes in clutch in several moments in the Goku Black arc. The anime writing staff mishandled him in comparison
@@MattManDX1 yeah, that scene where he shows up with Gowasu and explains every bullshit made by Black and Zamasu is great. The Goku Black arc was overall better in the manga, even though the anime had several moments which I liked more. Seriously, who the fuck had the idea to make Vegetto unfuse BEFORE the Final Kamehameha?
GT wins for me. At least Goku felt consistent with how he was in Z as opposed to the Man-Child claiming to be Goku in Super. And one other thing to note, the End of Z is still canon, so all the stakes and Drama in Super feel hollow seeing as how we know how it’s all gonna play out in the end.
GT Goku couldn't count and doesn't know how to use strategy in battle. he's waaaaaaay more stupid and dumb compared to super goku. Atleast in super goku was smart in battle.
Both gt goku and super goku are pretty dumb at times every in battle
@@masterchief1642at least gt Goku doesn't risk everyone he loves just to fight stronger people
@rat9182 buddy did u watch dragonball?? 🤔🤔
@@NasirGiwa Goku could of negotiated with zeno and not make it a fight for survival
"Stupid Super Goku" music always gets me
I need an hour version of it
I need 10 hours.
@@RancidKari 100 hours is better
Faissal's Animation yeah, you’re right.
A. Y e a r s. W o r t h
@@MajinBomb a life times worth*
Gild: literally exists.
Pan: “So you have chosen, abuse”
Dont tell me you wouldnt also wanna beat the fuck outta him
But damn Pan be taking it to far
@@F4nta5y id much rather beat the shit out of pan
Kobil Shakur Nobody Pan: GrAndPAAaAAaa!!
GT isn't canon anymore sooo... Gild doesn't exist! Ha ha! So neither does his abuse. Good thing for him. lol!
I feel like dragon ball gt ending was the entire series coming full circle.
"Until we meet again!"
Childhoods ended that day
moonsmonsters yeah when they ended get they clearly were doing it with the intention of the whole series ending for good. You can tell just by what they did but Super didn’t have that final feel because it’s coming back, not to mention the manga is still going
rob And a movie came out just a few months later.
Tears were shed
Yeah
GT end is the definitive end of dragonball
I don't care what Mark thinks.
For me GT has the superior finale
Honestly.. I just want ssj4 or a form of it to be canon in the super. Thank you.
We got a form of it in DBS, with S Broly. I doubt DBS will ever make 4 canon, as it's a GT only thing, but it'll definitely use the principles of it. And S Broly is basically that character. But, who knows, maybe they will give us actual SS4 in DBS. :/ Though, if that does occur, I do NOT want Goku nor Vegeta to have it, as they have their own paths to power going on rn (Goku with his Angel power, and Vegeta with his God power). If anything, I'd want Broly to evolve his Ikari and SS power so much, that it would basically become something like SS4. :D That way, we have a GT thing in Super, and it works.
@@preds43 yeah I'd like Broly to get SSJ4. And Gohan to continue down his own Mystic path like in the manga. Would also like Future Trunks to get his own thing in non god SSJ but he did show flashes of Blue, so he'll probably cap out at SSJ Blue.
No, please never let that be canon. If that happens, then people will just be mad and complain about DBS rehashing stuff again, and they would actually be justified to complain in that situation. I'm a fan of bringing back the CONCEPT of SSJ4, but not the form itself, maybe we can get an expansion of the Ikari form that Broly had.
@@preds43 yeah that’s basically exactly all that I’m asking for. Sounds very fitting and yes I wouldn’t enjoy it as much if Goku n Vegeta got this.. sounds perfect the way you described it for Broly👍 thank you.
@@jantheking7028 yeah a concept of it.. atleast. It’s fitting for Broly. he’s a wild beast.
Opinions aside, I gotta say I really appreciate that GT had mostly consistent on model art. In most of the GT clips shown in this video the characters look good while on the Super clips half of them look really off and weird.
Thats kinda my thing, while there are some absolutely STUNNING visuals in super, the consistency is just not there man. Its bad enough to me that i just can't watch it despite Dragonball being my favorite series for the longest time. I just can't get past it.
Only the first two arcs where they didn’t try with animation because there’s already a movie version with some of the best animation to in Dragon ball has ever seen so...
Bro you clearly havent watched gt, tho the clips shown here was good, GT's usual quality is god awful at times, characters move so damn slow its painful
i hate how the universe 6 saiyans are skinny as a noodle
i hate them in general
Super goes from like God tier, to like boruto tier real fast
It’s so scary to me DBS started airing in 2015 like I felt like it was airing yesterday
😐
BATTLE OF GODS AIRED IN 2012 LIKE HHDXRDRCDV
@@sendark 😂
tyguy360Gaming Dragon Ball has come so far my man lol. What’s even crazy is that for a long time there was a point where none of us knew the franchise was gonna continue. Bless you Akira Toriyama !!🙏🏽🙏🏽
@@saiyan_og9678 Dbz was probably ment to end after the Freeza saga.
I can't believe the serious Goku in the Buu Saga telling Goten and Trunks to stop fighting is the same Goku in Super...
Goku in dbs isn‘t goku anymore…
Man, Goku was an idiot throughout all of Buu Saga, he just never got called out for it. Of course he does act more serious, but that's about it, and even then Super Goku acts more serious against the real villains (Black and Jiren), but is more lighthearted for a friendly competition (like against Hit). Goku's only problem in Super is he forgets critical information or is ignorant of something obvious. But then, in the Cell Saga, Goku barely understood his own son and dismissed his own heart disease against the Androids, and in the Buu Saga he didn't even consider what's wrong with expecting 2 toddlers to take down the biggest threat to the universe. And yeah, there's the whole SS3 debacle.
Regardless, in Super he doesn't make "anti-Goku" decisions throughout the entire ToP, he's friendly and honest for the U6 tournament (a lower stakes battle), his weaknesses are exploited against Frieza (the one person who can exploit his weaknesses), and while he's a fool in the Goku Black arc, it's not like evil containment would just win anyways as Goku and Vegeta were still losing to Black already who could save Zamasu in a second, him not knowing what a kiss is is a stupid nitpick to complain about of all things, and him forgetting senzu beans...is pretty dumb of him, yes, but not any dumber than practically letting Buu resurrect to satisfy Vegeta's ego.
Wolfgod 64 thank I see gokus as being the same Goku I’ve been watching since beginning of dbz
@@username_29702 ok
@@wolfgod6443 ssj3 debacle? what?
I really hope they can make a canon version of GT like how they did Broly
I’m not sure how that would be possible with super saiyan god super saiyan existing over a decade before get in the timeline. I would love for it to happen though.
@@jage6344 what
@@jage6344 dbgt can always make a comeback maybe but imagine zeno once sitting and basically reversing the time back and not waking up beerus cuz he wanna see how much strong goku will get without God ki ik it sound stupid but it can happen!!
Idk how super 17 would work since he is good in super so maybe that arc has to be removed
nope GT cant happen man
One issue not touched on is that GT didn't actively damage any of dragonballs lore, where as dbs...gives me tingles in my back...
Hahaha but thats not the only thing. Too much bullcrap from super
What lore?
@@SprinklesServant many things
Too many
Why did trunksn goten become smaller
Why was goku suddenly retarded
And dafuq was that with the tingling back
And too many other things
Ooooh... Including the "Goku confused on what a kiss is"?
@@SprinklesServant oh my gooood olease dont remind me wtffff
Goku in GT: Gets turned into a child by black balls
Goku in Super: Gets turned into a child by the writers
(Disclaimer: This is a joke don't take it too seriously)
Credit to GT for keeping Goku's personality intact and not basically canonizing the Abridged series version of Goku.
I mean at this point its facts. I love both.
You're right don't say it's a joke
It's true though
Except when Goku is turned into a child, he acts like a child
Trunks doing a genki dama with 30 people alive on earth and putting into his sword is the funniest shit ever
What's not funny is it actually works...I was getting ready to really laugh my ass off when it didn't even scratch the entity that was nearly unfazed by SSjB Vegito and caused him to de-fuse.
At least it worked.
(Even if Zeno did all of the work to end it)
@Brandon kid buu is the strongest than all of the buus
@Brandon it's legit mentioned in DBZ that Kid Buu is stronger. The reason is mentioned too
@@LongusDongus03 kid buu is the most dangerous and pure form of buu, super buu was the most powerful form of buu.
I always thought Baby’s final look was interesting as he’s embraced the beastial side of the aliens that killed his world. A side even the remaining Saiyans neglect until this point in the story.
It kind of was the ultimate slap in the face of the Saiyans in visuals alone. Idk I liked it, but Super Baby 2 is my fav of his styles.
He didn't embrace it, he was forced to use the thing he was made to destroy just to fight goku
When vegeta moustache gets more character development than pan
😂
More than him too
Then y'all didn't pay attention to GT. Pan's relationship with Goku and her parents goes full circle.
In GT we got to see Vegeta with a moustache. Whereas in super we got to see both Goku and Vegeta rocking a Jesus beard.
These are the real observations we should be making
Personally, Gt's ending feels like a "Goodbye" but Super's ending feels like a "see you later" kind of ending.
By this I mean that one ending is more definitive that the other
GT ending should be the canon ending to the Dragonball franchise.
With GT’s ending, it felt like a ‘this is it. This is the end. The best you’re getting after this is video games’
With Super’s, it was more ‘yeah, we’re gonna keep milking this as hard as possible for as long as possible’
@@tylercoon1791 super still a better show, i woukd rather see a good show end like gt than a shit one cuz it takes out all the emotion in it, u look back at the series and think, there wasnt anything that good to remember so you have to go to dbz and og db to be like yup this is a good ending.
@@pastjdzz hard disagree.
With GT, you get an arc that tries to replicate the style of the Pilaf arc of Dragonball, but ends up being mediocre, an arc that both plays around with the idea of body snatchers and expands on the lore of the saiyans, along with giving us one of the coolest super saiyan forms in SSJ4, an ok-at-best arc that acts as more of a transitionary from arc 2 to arc 4, and ends off with SSJ4 Vegeta, SSJ4 Gogeta, the shadow dragons which gives consequence to all wishes made prior, and ends off with a great end.
Super, on the other hand, has a mediocre remake of an ok movie, a mediocre remake of a shitty movie, a boring tournament arc, some convoluted time travel shit that goes on way too long, and ends off with the ToP, which takes the worst aspects of the previous two arcs by being a boring tournament arc that goes on way too long
@@tylercoon1791 nah man you're making gt seem like it was an ok show when it wasnt, the first arc was crap, like u said it urslef they tryna be ogdb but shittier, whole arc was boring and really did nothing excpet stuff that felt like bad filler eps, and it is nowhere near as bad as supers first arc, however its second arc was good, in gt standards, it went and explained why this parasite wanted revenge on the saiyans and id say thats a better arc than the ressu-f saga. But even how "not good" the trunks saga was it wasnt as bad as "super fking 17" an Abomination of an arc that does nothing except introdouce the next arc towards the end. And dont even get me started on why the ToP was boring, at that point you're just being petty, ppl enjoyed it and would prolly say that its the best arc of the whole anime and your "shadow dragons" is way worse than the ToP arc. The only thing that is acctualy better in gt was its ending
I remembered one thing from GT in terms of character growth albeit minor, Vegeta was the first to suggest fusing into Gogeta, normally it took Goku bugging him into fusing.
DBS still had more development for Vegeta. I loved that Vegeta took up the master role with Cabba and Vegeta also going to train under Whis for the first time showed that he pushed away his pride and finally admits that he doesn't need to be a lone wolf for everything. Whis and Beerus were the first person Vegeta ever trained with since he was a kid.
@@jantheking7028 Yeah I liked Vegeta's arc in Super as well, him becoming more mature instead of basically obsessing over being the best at all times, accepting training from others that sort of thing.
@@jantheking7028
Bruh, they retconned Vegeta's character just for that arc to occur.... Again.
Dude acknowledged and became less obsessive with Goku after the final fight with Buu. It kinda makes his development (Again) pointless and not good whatsoever.
@@iman5147 No, he was only less obsessive with Goku in the moment of the Buu arc, just like he had done on Namek before Frieza killed him. He hardly obsessed with Goku in DBS, the only time where he might've done it is in the Tournament of Power when Goku got Ultra Instinct. The Moro arc shows that Vegeta isn't obsessed with Goku anymore, or at least as much as he used to be.
@@jantheking7028 man you literally comment in every videos about how much you hate GT. like damn, are you a 7 years old?
Dragon Ball Super was executed better and had more polish, but GT was creative and that ending is just something else
Absolutely agree
I like how the villains you discussed could be boiled down to Evil Vegeta vs Evil Goku
Duality , beautiful
Imagine if Baby Vegeta fused with Goku Black.
Black Baby Vegito, sweet
More like Goku and Vegeta are victims of body snatchers.
BlueMageDanny there’s actually a animation where goku black and Baby vegeta fuse to fight broly, you should watch it it’s pretty entertaining
I think dragonball GT’s ending was a better ending to dragonball as a whole where dragonball super’s was a closing to dragonball super
Leonard Church ye that’s why I said closing, like this chapter is closed
The Lifeless Gamer he said that, gt’s ending has nothing to do with gt so he said supers ending was better
@@pokepoke1564 Yeah but that's his bias blatantly lying. Where was Piccolo? Why was Piccolo there? Did this not only happen in GT?
Soulmakka don’t think you quite understood the point he saying that all these heartfelt goodbyes work as a closing to dragon ball as a whole but not for gt piccolo showed up for like 5 scenes if you haven’t watched it dragon ball your not gonna care about that interaction in gt
@@Binks7077 so by that then... LOTR: Return of the King had an awful ending as it relied on the previous two films for it's send off lol. GT just like Super isn't a separate story. It is a continuation of a story that begun in dragonball.
Mark: "GT Trunks is lit"
Trunks GT: President of Capsule Corp.
LMAO
He had a hostile takeover in the company
Mark just said GT Trunks sucks...
and yet people keep comparing him to future trunks. Honestly, people need to learn that both trunks are different
@@lapplandkun9273 Yes let's compare the guy who grew up in a world of peace and prosperity (Rich AF family) vs a guy who spent months (years?) fighting for their lives and money had no value.
Tobias Davies but people do. And it’s honestly unfair because GT trunks is kid trunks all grown up expect he’s from a different time.
The problem in my opinion with both of them is that neither of them are focussing on the next generation. Like focus on Goten, Trunks and Gohan a bit more than just bringing them for humour or when you feel like it. I feel like Gohan could be made such a good and strong character especially since he defeated cell. Vegeta and Goku are awesome but they are getting old literally (since their like in their late 40's) and they should train their younger sons like Goku trained Gohan. I feel like Goku paid A Lot of attention to Gohan in terms of bonding and training together in comparison to Goten who just feels like his Gohan's younger brother and not Goku's son. They're meant to be 12 but look like they're 8 lol.
Good point, hopefully if Super goes past the end of Z this can happen
So, how do you guys like Super Hero?
@@DEGermany Super hero's is good love piccolo and Gohan
Super Manga is now with a Goten and Trunks Arc ( like a prologue Arc to the Super Hero Movie) focus on them . They're finally having the spotlight.
Current supper manga is focusing on the next generation now lol this comment aged like milk
I like GT because it felt like Dragon Ball at the beginning, before Z.
I grew up in Mexico and we had the original Dragon Ball air before Z, so GT had a more nostalgic feeling.
A lot of the reason to love DBGT is nostalgia based. I watched the entire dragon ball series in 2015, and I watched DBS in 2018 and I liked DBS a lot more than DBGT. DBGT peaked at the Baby arc and I was uninterested at the Super 17 saga. I got interested again for the shadow dragons, but the arc disappointed me because of how weak it made some of the dragons despite hyping them up beforehand. I watched it all at once, so it might be that I was burned out when I got to DBGT, but with that in mind I did prefer DBS to DBGT. It's just an opinion tho, I plan to watch DBGT again in a couple of years to see if it was really as bad as I remember.
Same from Italy
On*
@@Lrizu yo, you wanna play extreme butoden?
@@jantheking7028 i wanted to ask you
But i forgot the name of the video
How did you find me here?
And
Yes
I liked GT as a kid. They were back to adventures, but now in space. Everyone grew up and it was interesting how they changed. Goku running through villains in space made sense, they weren't a universal threat like Buu.
Eh it sounds good on paper but it was executed horribly. There could’ve been crazy new adventures, but instead they just ripped off the original db adventures to shove nostalgia in our faces. That’s the exact reason they turned goku into a kid lmao. You could say it was to nerf him, but when you nerf the main character the other characters get shine and development. Pan and trunks had NONE of that. And that’s ultimately why the first arc failed.
Same. I didn't even know GT got so much hate for years.
@@leultrainstinct406 Still better then this childish DBS
Good idea but horribly done. Like, we've got a bunch of boring nobodies, with poor designs, uninteresting (Or sometimes creepy in a bad way) personalities, with uninteresting powers.
@@wingzero2348 gt kid goku saga😄😄😄😄😄😄
Super Mario Bros Z is the best sequel for DBZ.
He has a point.,.,.,.,.
I feel PowerPuff Girls Z was the better sequel imo.
lasarousi how dare.
@@lasarousi that's a throwback name.
I remember watching that while in my early stages of being a weeb, not leaving my room because I wanted to consume any anime I could find.
Are they going to continue mario z
Its also good to note that GT was pretty much a fan made love letter to both dbz and the original dragon ball series. And they didnt have anything near the budget or clout super does, not to mention toriyama actually being involved. The fact that they can even be compared despite all that makes a massive argument for GT and makes me wonder how great it could've been if it did have those things
GTs ending is like getting the math anwser right while doing non of the procedure
Yeah. Such a beautiful ending, but not earned at all.
... They still made it though?At the time they thought it was the end why wouldn't they not put all the series moments in what was supposed to be the end and if anything the actual end is the gt movie with g
Goku Jr. Super ended knowing it was still going to continue it didn't have the job of closing the series
Frank Erazo It was honestly a great ending and it was very heartfelt. Unfortunately it wasn’t great enough to save the series
At least super and GT butchered Trunks' character
am I the only one who Is confused with the GT ending, like, WHY DID GOKU LEAVE!?!?o(╥﹏╥)o
I honestly came to tears when I heard the GT theme idk why
Same
I don't even like DBGT, but that theme is so nostalgic to me.
@@jantheking7028 that theme is just nostalgia and as a fan of GT it hurts even more...
@PhOnIXR7 you can't take an opinion.
Cause it's fuckin magical
Watching gt: why are people dancing.
Watching super: what happen to his face.
Chigozie Nzerem do you Play Dragon Ball legends
@@daquanepaschal4633 I do
Conclusion: let's just watch OG and Z
Ironically super copies GT with the dancing concept but no one complained about it.
Headshredder When? I really want to know
Literally the most rational argument I ever heard for GT vs. DBS. Most of the time the argument's either that DBS fans aren't true DB fans or that GT fans can't prefer the series because it's "not canon". Great vid!
It isn't as rational as it could be, like how he doesn't go over the reason why the villains are even there in the first place
I feel like GT was a nod to the original Dragon Ball in terms of themes
thats what it was.
Except they don't have the awesome tournaments DB had
Nah. It was like the forced those themes into the series, and it was all they could depend on. That’s why the first arc was practically a copy and paste of the original adventures just with worse quality. In the end it never had a true identity. Whenever they had a chance, like giving certain characters development and shine, or executing great ideas the right way, they failed. That’s where I feel super succeeded. Not only did it continue db themes like hardwired, trust, pursuit of happiness, hope, etc. but it added new elements to the franchise.
Also, GT failed in the most important aspect of a db series: fights. Forget the story and all that, they couldn’t even execute fights the right way lol. That’s why super>>>imo.
@@leultrainstinct406 Super has literally no memorable fights, and the designs of the enemies with exception to Goku Black/Zamasu are all terrible. Who can honestly watch Jiren on screen for even a second without laughing/feeling embarrassed for his design? It's pathetic.
One thing GT did better than Super.
GT stories tried to deal with changes and consequences all the time and actually making them stick.
Goku being weakened.
Having to deal with every big bad going forward.
Baby being karma of past sins of the Saiyan race.
Dragon Balls becoming the enemy after all this time of aiding our heroes due to the characters over reliance on them.
Piccolo sacrificing his existence at the end.
One thing tho?
I absolutely agree with that. I'd love to see someone take those elements of GT to make a new dragon ball rewrite with more focus and love.
this is the reason I like GT more than super. It actually feels weighty. Like the situations actually mean something.
Super just has too much tension killing bullshit. Super dragonballs that can do basically anything. Zeno who can just erase any problem ever. Whis who can turn back time. Not too mention random power spikes like spirit sword bomb trunks thing.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate super. But i prefer gt to it.
MegaNinten 007 piccolo sacrifice didn’t make sense
I counted. That's more than one.
Baby: "I will stop Saiyans from becoming rampaging apes and destroying planets! -- I will stop them by becoming a rampaging ape and destroying planets!!"
It seems like that was intentional.
"Those Who Fight Monsters" and all that jazz.
Kinda like how Zamasu was like "mortals are inferior trash -- I'll steal this mortals body to become more powerful"
its a open to interpretation thing. He stopping them from rampaging by killing every planet so they cant possibly destroy them.
@@2absolutelynots Can't Have Sayians Destroy Your Planet if You destroy it first *Taps Head*
Baby wasn't designed to STOP the saiyans. They had already long-since won. Baby was designed to take REVENGE on the saiyans, and destroying the world where the remaining saiyans live fits the bill to me.
There's also a slight irony. "This is what YOUR race did to countless worlds. How do YOU like it?"
You forgot the best Arc in DBS
Purple Vegeta
*HEEEY MUY BUENAS A TODOS, GUAPÍSIMOS-*
LOL
Thats filler and noncanon
@@Jeremyugryjh I honestly enjoyed it, it was a very interesting saga, which was pretty entertaining but that's about it.
"Dragon Ball GT vs Dragon Ball Super"
Also known as
"Super Saiyan 4 vs Ultra Instinct"
N-no? Wha- why? This joke’s dumb.
N-no? Wha- why? This joke's dumb
N-no? Wha- why? This joke’s dumb.
N-no? Wha- why? This joke's dumb.
m
GT doesn’t have the president of China as a villain. So Super wins.
You're so wrong for that😂😂😂😂👏👏👏
Well, he's not a villain either in Super
[ CHINA WANTS TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION ]
Ironically i found them selling Botamo toys in Shanghai
@@revlismorningstar825 You're wrong xD
Ah yes I remember Sasuke in dragon ball super kicking everyone’s ass in TOP
Who? That was Jiren Uchiha mate
Don't forget the ichiraku ramen guy giving Hit the ring out
Don’t forget jojo caught in the bed with Mr Satan
@@edzzy0571 😳
I really liked Jiren Uchiha Vs Jotaro Kujo
Don't forget Krillin and Roshi moments in Super, their episodes were great
Facts. Especially roshi holy crap that was beautiful. He even god respect from vegeta and the strongest god of destruction. Tien had some nice moments too. The fact he opened his own dojo to teach the next generation was great to see and perfect for his character. But in gt they do absolutely nothing. Only thing krillin did was die lol.
@@leultrainstinct406 how was it perfect for his character like it does nothing sense his character arc was pretty much done in og dragon ball
@@leultrainstinct406 also let's not forget the power scaling of super and how bad it is
Yeah, but Tien deserved *way* better.
So basically for the ending segment:
Better Series Ending: Super
Better Franchise Send-off: GT
I don't agree with Mark and you
GT has the superior finale.
Basically. Its because GT is... based on Z, while Super is based on Super.
@@meganinten0078 GT is a great finale, but not for GT's merits, if the series was just GT it wouldn't be as good as it is, if at all because Goku's goodbye to his friends means nothing without DB and DBZ, as everyone but Goku and Pan do either very little or nothing at all, and all Pan does is getting into trouble for Goku to save her, even Vegeta gets left behind, his only contributions to the series being getting taken over by Baby and fusing with Goku, and while those are big moments he's just a plot device rather than a character with actual agency that shapes the story, and worst of all in my opinion, despite being one of the three main characters, at least until the final arc, Trunks is only there to drive Goku and Pan around.
what I'm trying to say is that GT's finale only works if you know Dragonball already, while Super's finale serves as a good end to its own series, and even that relies on DB and Z's nostalgia though not as much.
GT had the best ending out of every DB series, it basically sums of everything the Z warriors went through. A chilling moment of what the future may be
@@ginogatash4030 I don't care of your opinions or Mark.
Still, goodbye.
For me Gt is better than Super
Man I wish that Pan turned into a Super Saiyan during the baby arc. It would've been perfect if it happened when she had to fight Goten and Gohan!
Pan and MajUub were wasted in GT
is she even a Saiyan?
@@rifter4478 yes, she's the daughter of a half saiyan and a human, meaning she's 1/4 saiyan, her saiyan blood is the reason why the Super Saiyan God ritual was possible
Funny thing is, it didn't happen because no one could figure out how to draw a female Super Saiyan, even after they asked Toriyama how he would do it, so they just... didn't.
Super Saiyan is useless so what would be the point
Spoiler alert:
The show with villains that steal other people's bodies and have crazy strong entities fight Goku and Vegeta in the final arc is the best show of the two.
@David Loisel *totally 100% Originality there*
I can agree with tgat
@David Loisel Its almost like you forgot the gods shenanigans. Super would have been nothing without the gods. Goku also never won a major battle in Super. Lost against Beerus, Hit, Frieza, Goku Black, Fused Zamasu and Jiren. (Jiren actually beat him in MUI until he received the power of friendship-stinct)
@David Loisel lol
Lol
Dude baby is carrying the entirety of the GT rankings so hard
@@widodoakrom3938 taking a shot at super even though nobody brought it up lol
I don't get how baby can carry it💀
That's because my goat is so peak that he makes a bad show look mediocre
i really love the part when SSJ4 Goku gets really serious when Pan gets absorbed. Goku makes a speech that life is nothing without freedom, and builds up rage because one of the shadow dragons took away Pan’s freedom. It really moved me when Pan screams to Goku to kill her off with the dragon, And that to me shows that Pan is not just a kid but a true Z-Warrior that is willing to die for her planet and friends. (Also I really love SSJ4 and Dragon Fist)
Ssj 4 was pretty cool despite Gt being a fail.
Also omega shenron was also cool .
it also really sucks that they couldnt think of a name for the new transformation and just lazily called it SSJ4. because in reality its the Ascended Oozaru form which imo is the "true" potential of the Saiyan.
@@Lord_Dranek It's still better than calling it SSJ God and just have it's hair color changed.
@@Lord_Dranek Goku believed grandpa gohan was in the 4 star dragon ball and felt a personal attachment to it. I like the idea of the best things for goku always being attached to the number 4
@@GokuInfintysaiyan why are you telling me that?
DBZ even suffered from not being able to part with certain characters for too long. They loved keeping these characters on the sidelines to cheerlead, take bearings and ooh and awe at Vegeta and Goku. I can appreciate greatly GTs mentality of "if you aren't going to use these characters get them out of here."
I don't think it's GT's fault so much in the Utilziation of the other characters well most of the old cast anyway. If nothing else it is consistant with Z's ending, everyone's either too old or moved on or both. Goku's the only one that really earnestly continues his training because of course he would which leads slight credence to 'Goku Time'. Vegeta mellowed out in Z so it explains his characterization, the Humans just stick to whatever they would do living out the rest of their lives with likely Tien only training cause he's the most discplined. Goten and Trunks could of done more to have the torch passed on to them, but even Z showed they grew out of fighting in most cases so it is consistant. Gohan well he wasn't humilated like well Super, if nothing else he showed he could have the life he wanted while being some what combat capable if needed. The real mixed development was furthering Pan, Uub and argubly Bra/Bulla(Though she was basically Bulma 2.0)
@@Naruku2121 Gohan, as poorly as he was treated in Super, at least did something. Gohan in GT was useless, he didn't even have his ultimate Gohan form, he never took a single 1v1 fight unless you count under Baby's control against Vegeta (even then I think Goten joined in at the end?), in big fights all he did was get blown away and feed energy to Goku.
@@Junebug89 I did say some what capable. His highs may not been as much as Super's even if that's still some what marginal. But his low's in GT is definitely not compared to being humiliated into a pathetic slump that could barely even go ssj anymore.
And still they keep Pan.
Super made every character relevant. They all had their moments. All of them. And that was wonderful.
They made technique important again and stopped being so obsessed with characters who are so much more powerful that they make everyone useless. So obsessed with power levels. The best thing they ever did in super was making power levels far more vague.
Hell they even brought back future trunks and made him more interesting and gave him more character development and more to do than even z.
Suowe does so much right that makes up for what they did wrong.
Gt has nothing. Nothing other than designs I guess. The story is trash, the fights do NOTHING new, they loop animation constantly again, theres no technique going on, the stories are dont feel like dragon ball, it feels like fan fiction, and there is ZERO character development for a single character in gt. None. Even goku is far far far more one note in gt.
If the Saiyans are from Planet Vegeta, why aren't they called Vegetarians?
Because they actually lived on Sadala first,
Saiya is yasai backwards in Japanese, meaning vegetables. Jin is just a kanji to denote belonging ... サイヤ人 (saiya-Jin) it’s a pun name in vegetables itself.
@@Nouxatar r/woooshed
@@dragonsubzero7 r/woooshed
I swear to god Toriyama thought about that before calling them Saiyans
I always found the Goku black arc was more compelling. It was often a mystery to think what would you find out next.
Yea wow, what a great villain, I liked the part where all of the character development we got for him was him seeing rock men kick each other, and that's it, it's not even like the way he goes about his plan is cool or smart, its borderline impossible first of all, but that's one of many dragon ball plot holes so that gets a pass, but it's so contrived, why didn't anyone stop zamasu, why didn't Zeno care or kill him( the manga does it a bit better) OH and I love the part where they don't destroy the planet even though that they can and that would kill everyone on it but that would effectively stop the arc,and the part where the killed all the gods but and tried to destroy the multiverse but no one stopped him even besides the gods,and how they retconned the earnings for no reason at all and actively contradict multiple things, and how trunks gets a bullshit form for no reason or explanation that noone else has, or how the whole arc could have been solved if Goku wasn't turned into a idiot
An interesting Baby v. Goku Black note is that the encounter with Baby directly shapes the final narrative arc of GT and the overall theme, the over use of the dragon balls. Whereas Goku black as an arc does little for the overall narrative of Dragon Ball Super or the character's development.
Super arcs are not connected at all. You could put them as arc of Z without the new transformation and it's the same thing.
That is some of things I liked about GT. For once there was a consequence for abusing the power of the dragon balls.
Vojou345 and GT had consequences and the effects of actions be a complete theme throughout
Well actually the goku black arc showed us the terror of being ruled by zeno and the difference between the gods and the mortals
@@renatonovoa8125 I don't think we really needed the Goku Black Arc for that aspect. I think the Tournament of Power demonstrated that better with Zeno mercilessly deleting universes left and right
The argument basically boils down to, “Was the Baby arc better than all of super?” I love Baby, but his arc just wasn’t enough to carry the rest of the show.
This is Mark's subjective POV. For me, I did enjoy parts of Super 17 and Evil Shenron arc. Not to say they're good or anything but there are elements that I like especially the latter.
The rest of GT was half the length of Super so Baby's arc absolutely carries it. The question you should be asking is "Was the ToP arc enough to carry the rest of the show?"
Baby arc was the same as most of Super, great concept, not so good excecution.
FIBA Ballers I think the question for super should be if the Moro arc can carry the show since it’s the most beloved in super
2 crappy tournament arcs and a rehashing of an old character into an arc brings it below GT.
I recently bought the DVD set for GT and did a rewatch, while showing it to my girlfriend as she never watched GT (She did watch DBZ and Super). While the first part was indeed painful to watch, and the action scenes felt plain, she acknowledged the writers put some good effort into the series. The whole Baby arc was great since it feels it derived from Z, and totally believable. The dark dragon saga was also great (in paper of course) because it pays off what the Elder Kai was being speaking since Z regarding the misuse of the dragon balls. And the ending made her cry, because it felt the ending the entire dragon ball franchise deserved.
Bro I am so soo soo emotional person that DBGT made me cry when goku left everyone riding the back of shanron and then they showed the whole journey of goku and it felt so emotional with dan dan kokoro emotional ssj4 theme song ir still makes me feel cry 😭
Ending sucks
@@smittywerbenjagermanjensen4737 different people different opinions different perspectives !
Manas Thaker fair
@@smittywerbenjagermanjensen4737 and super is a shitty mess. Go ahead and insult one series. We can just insult another
Baby (the tuffles revenge against the saiyans) and the Shadow Dragons (the group getting a comeuppance for the over-reliance on the dragons balls, which was teased by elder kai in the buu arc) are such amazing ideas for villains. I find anything to do with saiyan lore so enthralling over all the god stuff. a lot of super felt like there were zero stakes and all the new multi-colored gods powers were so uninteresting. I hope eventually the series gets back to saiyan lore and we see more of broly, maybe a new iteration/retelling of baby, and a final satisfying tussle with frieza
Yeah I agree
Dragon balls just becoming 7 dragons generic villains with diffent powers for over-reliance on dragon balls doesn't make any logical sense . How it is amazing idea?
@@kubakaczmarek2399 I don't know it just does....cause I enjoyed watching so therefore it's good.
@@kubakaczmarek2399 First not all of them are generic. It does make sense as the series is called dragon ball and the fact that dragon balls were overused to the point of rendering death pretty much pointless makes for a good arc to show that actions have consequences. True the majority of the shadow dragons weren't interesting but the concept is a great idea for this series. Meanwhile super has 2 tournaments with no real stakes, a resurrection dbz villain with an asspull power up and the only interesting arc turns out to be another body swap/possession we've seen before. While dbgt isn't perfect by any means I can appreciate the attempt at something different vs doing the same thing over like Super did.
@@indifference1015 There wasn't any establish rule that dragon balls can be corupted that come out of nowhere, but It doesn't make any sense that dragon balls become dragons OUT OF NOWHERE.
Super honestly looks and feels like fanwork. Even late into the show the art style is lacking, everyone looks plastic and the backgrounds look fuzzy or washed out in many scenes.
DBGT had a lot of issues, but I certainly think it felt more like Dragonball and to a lesser extent Z than Super ever did, especially given Super inexplicably took a leaf from the simpsons and turned their main character into a simple minded idiot who constantly acts like an asshole
and that's balanced out completely by the animation... Super has dozens of fast, super expressive, incredibly elaborate sequences of sakuga animation, the Goku vs Gohan fight, Frieza's battle with the Assassins then Goku, Gohan vs Saonel and Pirina, every fight with Jiren, every fight with Black, some small sections of the Beerus fight.
and dozens of other cuts across the board.
GT's animation is fan-made-tier. relying far more on loops and motion tweened graphics over static backgrounds. The show also basically ditches the concept of choreography as a whole, relying on static characters firing lines of ki-blasts to make animation simpler and cheaper.
If I were to rank all the sequences of animation into a combined list from both series, I'm not sure GT would have an animation sequence in the top 30.
@@Omnipotentmonkey not to mention the overuse of ki blasts for no reason
no offence but super had better fight choreography
@@Omnipotentmonkey Lmao
@jesus barrera so what you're saying is because DB and Z are from 89-95 they have bad animation and choreography too? Cause that's not a statement I can agree with for multiple reasons. The year it was made in has nothing to do with the fact that gt did nothing special with it's animation.
@jesus barrera
you say "no shit sherlock...." but this isn't video-gaming... it's not rendering... it's ANIMATION... MOVEMENT, the fundamentals don't change. Snow White from 1938 still has fucking beautiful movement.
And Dragonball is far older than GT, but has far better animation sequences.... (Goku vs Roshi, Goku vs Tien, Yamcha vs Tien, etc....)
so your argument isn't obvious... because it's ABSOLUTE horseshit
Dear Editors
GIVE US THE MUSIC ALREADY BEFORE WE RIOT
The editor for TNM is a legend and needs to be immortalized forever
They thought we'd riot for the debating. But we want the MUSIC.
LightningSaiyajin m.ruclips.net/video/cmxBXSxDtdo/видео.html
@@BullRaisedJoey What the fuck is wrong with you.
@@BullRaisedJoey If that's not Rick Astley...
I did like vegeta in gt especially when he said something along the lines of "im an earthling with saiyan pride"
[spoons rattling] Yea but he was portrayed way better in Super
Vegeta's changes were way more subtle in GT, which seemed more realistic, imo. Vegeta is Super seems like a completely different person and almost no real time had gone by between Z and Super. In GT, you have him showing little insecurities, like his moustache. Taking Bra out shopping. You have that moment in the end, where he did in fact call himself an Earthling, with Saiyan pride. Those would have been his last words if it weren't for Goku saving him.
@@saiyan_og9678 i don't think so, he felt like he was just vegeta from the cell/android saga most of the time. But his daddy vegeta stuff was sparse but rather good around bulla being born and the amusement park
@@saiyan_og9678 thats not even bringing up how he straight up disregarded his whole "kakarot, you are number 1!" Speech
@@saiyan_og9678 thats not even bringing up how he straight up disregarded his whole "kakarot, you are number 1!" Speech
It's crazy how if you add the moro saga it blows gt out of the water in some of these categories
Dude, if its talking about the manga in general, than it AUTOMATICALLY blows GT out of the water.
@hassan Zahid I know
@@jantheking7028 Both are trash manga. Should’ve ended with the Cell Games or Buu Saga.
@@idrissbenaziz2411 Nah, Super manga is Great. Super anime is decent/watchable. And GT is just mid/bad
@@jantheking7028 I want you to mention a single memorable villain that doesn’t just use his fists to beat Goku. Moro at the start was unique and great, then just became a knockoff Cell. They always manage to completely destroy potentially amazing villains. It’s sad. Gohan should’ve become the main character after Goku’s death. Also, death has no consequence. There’s always the dragon balls, and they completely ignore the fact that you can only be revived twice. Goku died more times than that. Vegeta should’ve permanently died in the Buu Saga, Goku in the Cell Games, etc.
All those downsides of Dragon Ball GT & Super: BLAME THE WRITERS!
M Curran Um obviously lol
M Curran no cap they thought they could we were hooked so they started giving us bad written but I still love GT
Dragon ball GT's ending was the ending that Z should have had.
Agree!
There quite similar imo
What was the ending about.
GameWithAdam In a completely different series (Babylon 5), they thought the show is being cancelled, so they made the final closing episode. However they got one more season, so they just moved it to the end of that one.
I had the same feeling here. It was recorded at the end of Z, and just moved to the GT.
To me gt takes place after z(funi)
GT had better concepts but really bad execution IMO, and as for animation, we have to remember that Super has the advantage of 20 more years of animation technology.
But super was just really, really freaking stupid.
20 years of perfecting the art of cutting corners, besides the animation, the character designs just look off
No It WaS NoT
Thats not right. Animation had already reached a high level by GT's time. There hasn't been any significant advancement in 2d. And GT had some really stupid ideas. Android 17 and Hell fighter 17 are just dumb. The bigger problem is how much those ideas relied on previous DB storylines, making them fanfictiony.
San yes because the advancement of computers vs paper and pencil since 1994 isnt that much of an improvement lol
i agree with you
I'll always pick GT over Super. But it doesn't mean one is a masterpiece and the other dog shit.
I feel like super’s development in super saiyan blue was too rushed, we didn’t really get a history or scenes where Vegita and Goku achieve super saiyan blue.
rushed, lazy .. I mean Its a supersayan regular but blue... pathetic....... look the supersayan 4 concept .. look how awesome and OP It looks .
@@raphaels33 ssj4 was literally THE ONLY REASON to watch GT. if it didn't look cool it would've been disappointing.
@@jantheking7028 the ending Is very well writed as well .. very good closure.
@@raphaels33 I didn't like the ending, it was too mysterious with the ending. Like it didn't even explain what deal shenron made with Goku, or why Goku chose to abandon his family for the rest of his life.
@@jantheking7028 goku acctualy died on the battle again sheron he made a pact to sheilong to keep him alive for the last time the last batle at least ultil defeat sheron ... goku knew It vegeta knew It but they make misterious for us for the plot purpose ... I think was pretty creative and unique.
Coments; 11
Me: Oh let's read.
RUclips: No, I don't think I will.
Literally the first thing I do as well.
You just have to sort by new, then they pop right up
@@Ki_Adi_Mundi thanks
GT's character designs are fucking rad. Look, Omega Shenron practically RADIATES his evil aura, while Jiren looks like that one weird alien watching me sleep outside the window.
idk why this guy think omega shenron design is bad lol
Jiren looks like the wish version of frieza 100 percent over 100 percent power
@@gokushkameha-ha-ha9344 yeah he looks fucking bland af if you ask me
@@mikechrist9699 omega shenron looked amazing.
It wasn’t all that tbh. Just a big ass head with giant spikes on his back lol. It was better than jiren’s tho. But compare that to characters like Moro, Granolah, Merus, beerus, goku black, the angels, etc. it’s not really a contest.
This is like like discussing whether Zelda is about free exploration or about becoming the hero of legend
The latter
Call me crazy, but I feel like mark was a bit biased on the ending bit. GT was supposed to be a final send off to Dragon Ball. A way to clearly end the series as a whole. Super didn't feel nearly as impactful to me personally
But I think he's right that the ending of GT felt more like a send off to Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. GT itself was barely a factor in that ending at all. It's an ending that shows you all of the good times with the series and is meant to be a sendoff of the whole franchise, while almost completely excluding any memories from the last third of the franchise, the series we just watched, almost like it's admitting that GT itself wasn't really worth remembering fondly. It's a good ending for the franchise, but a bad ending for GT. Super meanwhile has an ending that fits the specific series and was never meant to be the end of the franchise, so it comes off fitting far better overall.
Well that's because the story isn't over. I'm pretty sure the Broly movie was already in development during the final episode.
@@DevilHunter1994 also there's the fact that both Tien and Yamcha don't even get ANY dialog in the ending(plus the whole show). In GT tien has like five seconds of screen time and Yamcha has the less than that
@@DevilHunter1994 gt is the conclusion of z
It was the ending of gt aswell
There's no argument to be made there it was very much worth remembering
@@DevilHunter1994 As a standalone ending for a self contained series? I guess, but as a genuine story ending, GT takes it.
Funny things is: people praise Super for being "made by Toriyama" when both GT's initial character designs and story were made and suggested, respectively, by him as well.
GT was in fact praised by Toriyama himself
Toriyama had no story involvement with GT. All he did was give some advice about the initial character designs and positions. That's the whole point. The Toriyama element was missing in terms of story. That's why GT's story is so different and relies on spin off ideas of existing lore. It's how fans right.
@@DSan-kl2yc the story isn't all that different at all... It's just more similar to OG dragon ball than dragon ball z
Stop lying he didn’t make any story
Lmao what are you on??? Toriyama made a handful of designs and THAT WAS IT. He did not like gt. He did not write a single story for gt. Not one.
If he did, he would t have ditched gt entirely like he did and made it completely non cannon. He purposely did that.
Fun shot game take a shot every time super seventeen push’s his hair back
I don't even think I'd be able to be revived.
I can drink like a fish but even I think I'll end up with alcohol poisoning!
so basically you're going to be breathing alcohol
I think that we can agree that any person would be fucking hammered
M’ Kim Jong Un does the true Super 17 even flip his hair back once?
My only issue with Super and where I'd give GT the upper hand is the villains and the power dynamics and how they work.
Starting with Villains, GT was undoubtedly better to me. Specifically Baby and the Shadow Dragons. Yes, Super had some okay villains but none were really inspired. Beerus was like Z Broly, a powerful force that could destroy like half the universe and couldn't be stopped by the Saiyan duo alone. Goku Black is a color swapped Goku that just hates mortals. They literally just brought Frieza back for like no reason. Purple Vegeta was just weird. And then some characters only had the perks of being cool like Hit and Jiren. Hit was a walking JoJo reference, English VA included, and Jiren was Space Kenshiro. Whereas GT had Baby and the Dragons. Baby was basically the culmination of the sins of the Saiyan race. Even coming back to bite it's royal bloodline. The shadow dragons were created by the use of the Dragon Balls in Z, which is a nice way of coming full circle. Also GT just had cooler designs.
And now we get to power dynamics, or transformations... this is probably where people are gonna hate me.
The God Ki stuff was stupid. I don't understand why they went that route and it never really made sense to me. Like, 5 Saiyans can make a God Saiyan somehow and Goku is magically a god now. SSGSS or Super Saiyan Blue was also really weird to me and also never really made sense to me either. Why did they stop at just SSJ? SSB was about Ki Control... so if Goku or Vegeta perfected SSJ3, then added God Ki to get SSB3... wouldn't that just solve most of their problems? Goku could probably train and stack Kaio-ken on it too. I guess what I'm getting at is they introduced a new powerful, albeit odd, energy and did nothing with it. SSJ4 was introduced as a Saiyan's pinnacle, and that was it. Now we have UI and Royal Blue or whatever... it begs the question: Where do they go from here? SSJ4 was meant to be a Saiyans full power but it was still grounded and open to expansion. With enough training they could probably break their own limits and get an even more powerful form. UI and Royal Blue put Goku and Vegeta miles further than anyone else and makes things really sureal in terms of scaling. UI makes Goku stupid levels past all of the Z fighters and Vegeta wanted to surpass Goku but in reality kinda didn't even get close because of UI's ability. It just don't work.
I disagree with you a lot, I think the antagonist section should've gone to DBS easily. Beerus is a better character and antagonist than every DBGT antagonist. Zamasu and Goku Black arc better characters and antagonists than every DBGT villain besides arguably Baby (It's debateable, but I prefer Zamasu over Baby). I think Hit had a more unique profression and moveset than anyone in DBGT. I also think Jiren was a better antagonist than Super 17 and Omega Shenron, but that doesn't really say much considering all 3 of them are pretty bad. I agree with you on transformations ad disagree at the same time.
I would go even further about God Ki being stupid. If we really think about it, excluding the idea of the Hakaishin or God of Destruction which I think was really well implemented in the Dragon Ball mythos, everything else about god-hood is fucking terrible.
At this point, we've met Kami, the Kaios, the Supreme Kais and fucking Buu who absorbed 2 of those at one point yet God Ki was never mentionned.
The Angels make no fucking sense, nor does Zeno. Angels' only known function is to mentor the Hakaishin but that's not even needed since the Hakaishins are already linked to the Supreme Kais, they could have assumed that role. Keep the Universes in check? Supreme Kais and Kaios also do that so what's the point of the Angels other than a higher power ceiling?
And if Angels are that powerful and can even manipulate time, why do the lesser gods exist? Clearly they are outmached in literally everydomain except for instant travel.
And who the hell is Zeno? Did he create everything? How'd he do so as a stupid child figure? Did he revert himself to a child because he was bored or something? If he is so powerful, why does any god exist? The guy can erase entire universes with a raise of his hand.
I like Super but the god stuff, apart from the Hakaishin introduction is, for lack of a better term, god awful
@@jantheking7028 He was talking about character development wise GT had better villains, not who had the coolest powers looks and moves, Baby's story connected back to the original dragonball so did the dragons, & even super 17, Jiren was the most inspired villain in super ,
Super had cool villains and powers definitely, but story progression was uninspired, look at the consistency of Naruto
@Mathew Sakwa tbh Alot of people I've met that love super are newer gen, and weren't watching dragonball when it was 1st out , Super seems like a side story to commercialize the show , GT was more of a follow up to Z, none the less I feel we can agree the original ending would've been better to have ssj2 gohan actually fight cell and become the main protagonist from there , with ssj2 being the max level a saiyans can reach
@@nasraken1971 Character development wise? I don't think you know what character development is, because if we are talking about character development for the antagonists, then that easily goes to DBS. Frieza in DBS Broly had development from the completely revenge obsessesd Frieza from Resuerection F. Zamasu developed as a character as he gradually slipped deeper and deeper into his ideology until it consumed and basically turned him into an entirely different person. Jiren had development in the sense that the Tournament of Power taught him that pure power isn't the "be all, end all" and it also taught him about the value in his teammates. None of the DBGT villains antagonists had development or a progression in their character.
Tbh about character development, while GT did nothing atleast they didn't ruin characters while Super actually ruined Goku for a lot of people.
not to mention that they basically rewinded Vegeta
Super anihilated everyone's development from Z
@Ash Williams Also Krillin, who was a weak but brave fighter became the Z-warrior equivalent of Mr Satan
I hated kid goku. I felt like his character regressed more in GT then in Super
Opachopp I mean GT ruined Goku’s character too... Goku was portrayed bad in the first half of Super yes but in the TOP he becomes good again.
Plus Super made some of the characters better than they ever were. Perfect examples are Frieza and Android 17.
At least GT had Vegeta actually had him suggesting fusion instead of Goku, that's something that seems reasonable for a Post-Z Vegeta
true
Yea, but the fusion itself was ruined, they literally copy and pasted Vegito's personality and put it on Gogeta. Gogeta isn't supposed to have a joking around personality, he is supposed to be serious and get the job done.
@@jantheking7028 And that literally what killed ssj4 Gogeta, He could have been powerful and would have shown all kinds of different moves and powers or different unique abilities to make him the OP monkey saiyan fighter to defeat that shadow dragon, but they made him a joke, and that's really such a wasted potential character for him to become.
@@MeatYourDEMYRO Wouldn't it make sense that gogeta would be like vegitom Vegeta has the dominant personality, so it's likely that gogeta was going to be like vegito
@@MeatYourDEMYRO To be honest, the term "wasted potential" applies to LITERALLY every dragon ball character after the Cell saga.
I feel like some points were missed like Gokus character in both, and Vegetas character in both. The Saiyan transformations too.
Yeah, there's a few more things I would've liked him to discuss. Like the atmosphere\world building from both shows.
I'm surprised @Totally Not Mark completely skipped discussing the transformations. SS4 vs Ultra Instinct.
Goku is characterised better in GT than in Super and Vegeta is (more or less) the same in both give or take a few things. GT Goku is very intelligent for the most part, in contrast to Super Goku who is even more childlike than he was in Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball
@@HeavyMetalBeliever ultra instincts isn't a transformation but rather a Technique where goku in his base has better control of his movement. Now ssg to ss4 is a much topic of discussion interms of whats makes more sense story wise.
@@janetgarrenson5526 I preferred SSJ4 to SSG/SSGSS even though SSG/SSGSS was implemented a lot better in comparison. Goku becoming SSJ4 for the first time is one of my favourite transformation sequences in the entirety of Dragon Ball, so there's a slight amount of bias towards it (for me, anyway).
You almost got me, but saying that Super's "Ending" was a better ending than GT's was the nail in the coffin man. Like, sure, you might be a GT hater and stuff, but I can't even try to believe that Super's "ending" was more impactful than GT's. Call it nostalgia or not, Super's "ending" doesn't excite me as much, nor it makes me tear up. GT's on the other hand felt like a proper ending. Sure, Super's "ending" isn't actually an ending, because they WILL milk the series further more FOR SURE, but like I said, I didn't felt remotely excited to see the future. I just "pray" that it is better than it was until now. If it gets the same treatment, I'll still be like "Cool.", and nothing more than that. GT's ending makes me think of the whole series in a single episode, seeing Goku kinda "retracing" his steps and his journey, while giving us a proper feeling of "Wow, this was the ending. I'm glad for this series as a whole, even despite some GT arcs being pretty mid or bad". Super's "ending" makes me think "Wow, Goku sure is strong huh haha. Back to my usual stuff now". The ending doesn't have much "character" as the GT one did.
Therefore I HARDLY disagree with half (If not most) of the video's arguments. But everyone have their opinion on stuff like that, and honestly, no one here is particularly "right or wrong", since they both have a different approach and stuff like that. But I do think that GT feels way less of a "hype train" or a "cash grab" than Super, in most instances. Sure, GT completely tried to "surf" on DBZ's hype and stuff, because it was HUGE back then, but you can feel the passion in some instances throughout the anime, especially the most "common knowledge" thing here, which is the ending, that makes people tear until this day. Super in the other hand, sometimes feel jarring to watch, because you KNOW Goku will win, or IF he gets close to "dying", he will transform in Super Sayian fucking orange or SUPER MEGA ULTRA INSTINCT and beat the shit out of the antagonist. Super FEELS like it is just something you watch to unlock your neurons to some good old punch and magic spamming, other than watching for the story and stuff.
My point is, Super is just a "hype driven anime", making you go "Cool." more than "Omg, what will happen after this?", which isn't a bad thing, but completely throws the development the characters had prior to Super. GT is more of an adventure anime, with some good fights here and there, but makes you feel pressed against a wall more times than Super ever did. It has it's "Deus Ex-Machina" moments, like the Super Saiyan 4 stuff and such, but I personally prefer getting 1 "overpowered form" (Or 2, if you also count Gogeta SSJ4) over about 3 overpowered forms (Discounting fusions, which add to the stupidity of the power level numbers), one getting more overpowered than the last one (And we all know that they won't stop making more forms as the show goes on). It honestly feels just like I said, you get "hyped" to see what ridiculous different form they will create for characters next time (Look at the new DBS Super Hero movie XD). It's not particularly a bad thing if you just want the action, but if you want ANYTHING OTHER than the action, you won't get much quality and development as it once had, in DB, DBZ and heck, even DBGT.
I hope I didn't look like I wanted to offend anyone or anything, but just like Mark shared his opinions, I wanted to share mine. We're both probably "wrong", but there's no actual "right or wrong" in opinions, like I said, when it is a personal preference thing. And I also hope that I was able pass my thoughts and opinions straight, not making it redundant nor confusing to understand. I also grew up with this series being a huge part of my life, not just my childhood, so of course there is a bit of nostalgia trip still in me, but I honestly tried to throw most of the nostalgia out of the way as I wrote this comment, and try to not make it extremely biased, but also making sure that I got my points and arguments as I honestly feel like they are.
yap yap yap
I ain’t reading all dat GT glaze yap
So ... Original Dragonball review when?
In all seriousness, amazing job these past few months reviewing these two series. You made a lot of good points and I had fun watching how you edited the material. Can’t wait to see what’s next!
I would actually be totally down for that.
It'd get no negative points. It's just a perfect series. It starts off as a gag anime with light villainy and then goes to training and a tournament with every unique concept in combat on each tournament. Red ribbon Tao and Piccolo were like the absolute evil entities for earth compared to other villains in series giving those villains the highlight they deserve instead of trying to make more evil villain than Frieza and failing everytime and it ends with Goku marrying ChiChi. For God's sake best Dragon Ball series there with not much plothole like how Krillin could cut frieza with solar flare and destructo disc while he used Kamehameha in budokai tenkaichi just to blind Goku for the kick he was preparing.
Universal Spirit Bomb > Spirit Bomb used against Jiren
Are you dumb lmao 😂🖕
@@prabalkamra7763 only 10 people gave there energy in TOP on the other hand when Goku used Spirit Bomb against omega people from many planets shared their energy. Screw GT spirit bomb , even Spirit Bomb used against buu was stronger than TOP spirit bomb.
The Anonymous Mind you those characters in the TOP are way stronger than all the characters in Z and probably GT.
It was stronger then kaioken 20 blue goku which is pretty strong
@@johnnysins4298 kaioken 20 blue goku is pretty fucking strong
GT was an attempt to return to the fun adventure of the original dragon ball, but this was difficult because the scale of Z made conflicts dull to begin with.
Super double-downed on the huge scale conflicts of Z seeing as how the whole series is just a big tournament arc with a handful of antagonists sprinkled in
Man.. I was on-board with all of it until you said Super's dumb finale was better than GT's.
Super can't have an ending if its still going. The manga is still being written with more arcs. The animation team is just waiting for the manga.
That has never been a thing with Super, so we don't know if that is actually the case. ALso, having Goku randomly not using the Kaioken would be strange
@@nuredingeziqi679 Yea, thats what I'm wondring. If the anime is going to follow the manga now, what will happen to things like SSBK, Kefla, Kale and even Hit's timeskip ability? SSB kaioken was never in the manga, and Kale in the manga has a completley different personality and character than in the anime. Even Hit's ability to "improve" in the middle of a fight wasn't in the manga.
@@jantheking7028 I assume the anime will go like the manga with some differences here and there, just like the manga was going when anime was ahead of it
Yet it was still better than GT despite being a midway breakpoint
Moro arc is done so I wonder if they started animating
Unpopular Opinion: Rewrite GT to fit with super, while keeping aspects of the old arc and show. Remake it to be better, not just so we can finally label it as "Cannon."
It's an official story but it is an alternate continuity
I honestly just want the Shadow Dragons Saga to be redone. It was such an amazing concept but was very poorly executed
That would be a good way to end the fandom war, but honestly I don't want that to happen because I hate everything in DBGT except SSj4, but it is too late to add SSJ4 to DBS, it was surpassed with SSG Goku.
@@Whoisthatguy906 They might do something like that with the creator of the Super Dragon Balls, they said he was a namekian named zalama or something.
@@jantheking7028 nobody cares about your opinion dude. you don't have to spill your opinions in every videos comment section. you're a nobody
you ever notice there's a split time line? it's based on whether or not the Garlic Jr Saga happens, I bring this up because plot points of the Garlic Jr Saga appear in GT, that and whether or not Beerus wakes up.
Holy shit
Yeah, I kind of view GT as a continuation of the original DBZ movie timeline, since you do see Cooler in the Super 17 arc.
That's right, Dende used the Sacred Water, which was introduced in the non-canon Garlic Jr arc, to fix everyone from Baby.
A non-canon item was used in a once-canon continuation of an already inconsistent series. This is so fucked.
SomeRandomJackAss that could've just been a goof
KiwiVibes you know Dragon Ball is a manga originally, right? Garlic Jr. Saga was filler. It was a sequel to a movie made into an arc, to give time to the manga to get ahead.
OG dragon Ball and dragon Ball GT are the only ones that have ever made me cry and made me emotionally invested
The one aspect I had a problem swallowing was the character design itself. Even though there was not any character development in DBGT as such, the character design were far superior than the DBS. DBGT had really cool and attractive designs like Super Saiyan 4, Baby Vegeta, Omega shenron, super 17, whereas DBS had Goku in black outfit, Purple Jelly Vegeta, Malnutrition Saiyans, character resembling each other like Zamasu looking like tall and green version of supreme Kai. The only actual strong looking antagonist was Jiren. That’s the only reason I personally feel that GT had a upper hand.
Jiren is the stereotypical depiction of a gray alien , the only difference is that he got his hands on some steroids to get buffed.
I also say that the characterization was superior in GT when accounting for time. DBS vegeta feels like he is being borrowed from GT. DBGT Goku is objectively better and more mature than DBS goku. Goten is awesome and became a lady-killer stepping out of the goku and gohan farmboy/isolation charm, Trunks became the calm one despite being the trouble maker as a kid, and overall each character felt like they grew in those 15 years, even if we didnt see it
@@GokuInfintysaiyan what about GT's Gohan? also what do you mean Goten became a lady-killer stepping out of the Goku and Gohan farmboy ecc...i'm just curious cause you're the fist one ever that liked Goten GT's version...
Alex Matejic
Yeah GT Gohan isn’t a bitch either and actually gave a shit when piccolo died
Also that’s straight horseshit. There are entire threads of how cool GT Goten is by being different from the rest of the cast and brining back one of the cooler parts of Yamcha. Many people like GT Goten
@@GokuInfintysaiyan Are you insinuating that DBS Gohan was a bitch? I mean if he had stayed the same as he was before TOP I would agree but considering TOP exists I think they did a lot more with Gohan than GT ever did.
Vegeta during gt had development though theres scenes like when him and goku were gonna fight and when goku got hungry vegeta just starting laughing. Its a little scene but its a fun moment of vegeta. GT bulit off of vegetas character during the buu saga and did a lot more than what they did to him in super. Lets also remember that vegeta brought up fusion when in both dbs and the buu saga had vegeta complaining about fusing with goku. Theres also vegeta's motives and that he let bulma give him more strength. If you wanna see more just watch Sal the saiyan's video about GT Vegeta's motives
Now if you think about it Vegeta GT's development really is kind of the pinnacle of Vegeta's development. Okay maybe that sounds a bit too much, but it does show a much mellowed out aproach, while Super had Vegeta's personality circling at various points. Vegeta's willingess to fuse with Goku is a magnitude in his character. Even his Ssj4 transformation, while maybe a lot of people and some die hard Vegeta fans take issue with him needing help and maybe even the method itself it actually cements the bond and love he has for Bulma that he claims to have after of course that sacrifce and his change in the Buu Arc.
God Of Savages they made Vegeta a fool some of the times in Super. Like the bingo dance and him suddenly cooking for Beerus and Whis. I found those moments hard to watch. Super did really well with Vegeta though, just not entirely in my opinion. GT did better in my opinion, as Vegeta is shown to have developed. He asks for help with a transformation (which you wouldn’t catch DBS Vegeta doing that at all), and he even brings up fusion without complaining. Vegeta in Super had to constantly be told “Hey, world is on the line. Do you want Bulma dead?” then bam, he’ll fuse. They did that THREE times, which it got annoying.
God Of Savages True, but in GT, Vegeta asked help from someone he cares about dearly. As in Super, Whis was just a mentor and that’s it, nothing too special to Vegeta (even though Whis is Vegeta’s first mentor).
@God Of Savages lol, vegeta is a maid to beerus in super, yes they handled his development real well 😂😂
Ninjaguy 3128 vegeta got a ssj4 just to be fusion fodder for goku he doesn’t do anything with it once the fusion is over except get beaten up
You didn't even touch on the transformations. GT had one major new form with SSJ4 and it wasn't until the final arc, and involved a new method of attaining the form than just Goku powering up again. Super had about 4 new forms by the end, and there was nothing particularly creative about any of them.
so true they fucked up with making god. it wasnt anything special looked too much like kaioken so they immediatly side lines it for blue.
Nothing creative about ui or god? Wow.
ScandalousPanda ok? first of all he’s not taking about design and 2nd all of the canon ssj transformation barely change your appearance except ssj3 and that’s just longer hair
And this dude got many things wrong in his comment like they got ssj4 in the 2nd arc and he literally got ssj4 by powering up again
@@imedd3191 he didnt get ss4 by just powering up
he had to go golden great ape first. its obvious youre a super fanboy so just shut up if you dont even know anything about gt
ScandalousPanda why would he mention ssj4 not powering up if he was only talking about design? Welcome to dragon ball. Mostly Everything’s basic/simple . If you got a problem then to bad
super did more entertainment for me than gt ever did for me even though gt had some interesting ideas it never fleshed out or really did anything for there narrative while super did and gave dragon ball a new future but one thing both series fail at is the fantastic world of dragon ball no longer feels lived in what I mean is what once was lands filled with thousands of stories to tell are now ignored and forgotten even though super has shown new worlds for adventure I don't see it ever going past goku or vegeta for adventures
I think it’s an issue of execution. Dragon Ball GT had much better and more unique ideas, yet in the moment to moment fell flat. Dragons who punish the Earth for their over reliance on the Dragon Balls? Super interesting. Long winded boring episodes that don’t feel satisfying to even watch? Less so. Conversely, Dragon Ball Super’s ideas were less interesting, yet better executed. Yes, an evil Goku and two tournament arcs are perhaps the most uninspired thing you could come up with, but each was executed well enough to be engaging each episode even if they have massive holes. Bad ideas, good execution. It’s the reason people enjoyed the Future Trunks arc when it aired and only really saw that it made no sense looking back. Dragon Ball GT was generally despised during its run, yet has garnered respect all these years later. They are polar opposites to one another, which I think is kinda cool.
Edit: I’ve unleashed demons in the comments lol.
I agree dude but even if a Dragon ball GT has a very good execution it still has alot of plotholes but I agree with your points completely. Im not fan of GT nor super.
You put this way less long winded than I did. I doubt anyone will read my comments lol do thanks for putting this out here for ppl to actually read
lol at Super executing anything well
Idk, GT has a little respect now, but that's because Super divided fans tenfold. If Super didn't shit on Z harder than GT did (in many aspects, but not all of course), GT probably wouldn't have this respect. Not to say GT isn't dogsh_t, but Super definitely missed the mark more and less at the same time, or rather, every other episode, because they literally had new staff each episode. Also Super did execute things well. It executed any hope I had for the future of this series, unless I lie to myself, every other week of course. Horray for inconsistency!
You make a good point, DIO.
I personally think the Shadow Dragon Saga was better than any other story in GT or Super. The Dragon balls have always been a HUGE part of the DB series, and I think finding a clever way to make there be negative consequences to abusing them over the years was awesome. A power like the Dragonballs should have drawbacks, and those drawbacks being Shadow Dragons with unique personalities that were created by particular wishes was a great idea to me.
Sidenote, the Goku Black Saga felt like a remake of the Baby Saga.
You know I thought I was the only person who thought that. Nice to see someone else with the same opinion.
@@chickenfriedrice7700 Yeah I think relative to GT the Shadow Dragon saga was awesome.
Overlord the fights could have been better I’ll admit. But the idea of going back to the roots of dragon ball was a great way to end the entire series.
@@chickenfriedrice7700 Very true. I agree.
I absolutely agree and also thought I was among the few people who shared the same sentiment. I thought baby was a cool story arch as well as the shadow dragon saga. I am surprised he kinda just glossed over it. I thought it was very creatively done how they implemented it.
I had large issues with Super's writing and overall tone. I never once felt that there was actual tension in Super as there was in GT. The stakes felt nonexistent despite the Tournament of Power literally having the largest stake out of anything in the Dragonball franchise. I think the best written arc in Super was the Goku Black Arc, and even then, what ruined it was the fact that Goku and Vegeta just retreat whenever to train and recover. A lot of it felt "Sitcom-y" because the tone would feel consistently light even in the show's more serious moments.
In GT, I felt the peril of seeing characters die. I didn't think the plot armor felt as thick for a lot of characters (except for Satan). There was no real assurance that our favourite characters would win without consequences whereas in Super, we had Whis who just undos the destruction of Earth like it's nothing, or that Beerus was BFF's with Bulma, or that Zeno was BFF's with Goku. There was just a lot more weight of loss in GT, and you could see the characters acting more human in the face of adversity. The series' biggest deus ex machina now had large ramifications with the Dragonballs having become corrupted, and I still think that is one of the best twists to the Dragonball formula.
Super was of course meant to be more comedic and light, but I think its predecessors demonstrated that you could still have comedic moments while having emotionally heavy ones as well. If you don't treat your story seriously when push comes to shove, why should your audience care about what happens next? Even if the large majority of GT felt like filler, the moments that weren't filler felt much more impactful and memorable than anything in Super. That to me, is what Super was missing and why I think GT is superior to Super.
To be fair what killed Super's Tension right off the bat is that it is basically a mid-quel. No matter how grand they try to make the stakes or how many of the main cast dies. We *automatically KNOW* they'll be fine for all those that showed up at the end of Z.
@@Naruku2121 Although I agree that having a predestined conclusion does remove a few options, the main issue is the show's tone treating like there is just the one available. A lot of shows (kid shows especially), we are aware that the "Good guys have to win," but they still create the illusion of that result capable of being taken away through solid writing and emotional manipulation. Super could have pulled this off as well, but just didn't do it very well. I could nitpick every big moment in the series, but at its foundation, I think Super's tone misses the mark compared to GT. GT overall, took itself more seriously and as a result, the audience is able to take it more seriously.
@@codeyvo Yeah, I get the illusion and for the most part yeah "Good guys usually always win in the end." But honestly that illusion can't be weaved when we already concretely know the reality, unless some one's jumping on point for the series is indeed Super and never seen Z's ending, the universal stakes seem to be more of a suspense for the other universes than U7 unless they subverted expectations in that U7 actually lost and maybe Jiren learned something from Goku and his group and then wished them back(Sounds kind of forced given Jiren's Mentality, but this is all hypothetical) Then that would make a lot of people go "Woah WTF?!?!" Atleast for a moment.
@@Naruku2121 I think in regards to creating tension elsewhere, there were a lot of directions Super could have taken with this whole series. More development of the new characters rather than devoting episodes to crappy gag filler would be great: like having an episode dedicated to Hit having to save an assigned assassination target because he/she was an innocent child, or an episode devoted to Cabba having to unleash Super Saiyan for the second time in order to deal with a threat on his planet. A lot of missed potential.
Regarding the Tournament Arc (what I believe to be the weakest arc), perhaps if other universes outside of 6-7 had likable characters fleshed out prior, erasure of other universes would make the audience feel more than "huh...." Because that's how the characters in the other universes feel. A lot of the universes just went out as if nothing serious happened. If it were me up there, I would have been like... "I failed my family, my homeworld, trillions of people are going to just get wiped away..." Even if the "I wish to bring back all the erased Universes" was predictable from the start, seeing pathos in characters is a nice touch because it's an example of believable multi-layered writing.
@@codeyvo What I kind of hoped and in some way think still should have happend was when the other universes returned it also brought back those that were also erased prior. That could hold a lot narrative potential.
Honestly, your claims about the ending of GT are extremely unfair and biased.
It is simply incorrect to say that GT's ending is only good because of Z. The majority of the iconic and memorable scenes that made GT's ending so epic only work because of GT itself.
Two of its best moments are Pan finding Goku's clothes and Pan chasing Goku's ghost at the tournament 100 years later, both scenes only existing because GT introduced Pan and developed her relationship with Goku from scratch, without taking anything from Z.
Besides those two, my next favourite scene from the GT ending is Goku shaking hands with Piccolo in Hell. Again this only works because of GT, since otherwise Piccolo would not be in Hell to begin with. The setting made the scene a lot more powerful than it could otherwise have been. It was GT that killed Piccolo.
In fact, there is very little from Z in this ending except for the scene with Kuririn and the flashbacks.