this arc is really weird it has some really awesome episodes and some fucking bad ones... but in general I quite enjoyed it... except for the damn stupid ending.
As if Goku Black could ever love a *ningen.* On a more serious note, I remember Plague of Gripes making a video about why the timelines don't work, though it got removed from RUclips from all indication. Any chance you'll collaborate with him for yours?
There's no logical reason Trunks and Mai didn't stay in the present timeline. The timeline they went to already had them, the present timeline did not, and Future Trunks being added to the Z-Fighters roster would've been legendary.
Could you imagine if trunks was in the TOP? That would've been awesome. He would be really interesting to see, specially because he has no god powers but can still grow by mastering other transformations
It would make the roster for the ToP too Saiyan for my taste. It's already overwhelmingly human. Also, Freeza would probably implode from sheer anger. AND figure out about time-travel. AND figure out that present Trunks is Future Trunks. This is all knowledge I wouldn't want Freeza to have on any capacity.
I really hate how they've massacred Goku's character for no reason. Compare Namek-Android Saga Goku to any of this. The kissing dialogue from Goku was just unnecessary.
@@theavatar9191 It's extremely out of character for him. Goku is 40-something around this time, not a man-child. He has had years of fighting experience, and he has shown his maturity countless times in DBZ, so it just makes no sense to ruin his character like that.
Cue all Goku haters saying "this is what Goku ALWAYS was in Toriyama's vision", probably dropping the infamous quote when he said he wanted people to think he wasn't a good guy at all. fml
@@warwick802 not only that, we're talking about a goku that was actually very smart when it comes to fighting and was average in term of actual inteligence and they're trying to say that this 40 year old genius fighter who was able to tutor Gohan even more effectively than Vegeta taught Trunks doesnt know what a kiss is is just pure BS
The whole “Goku not understanding sex” thing only worked in DB because he was a 12 year old who had never seen a woman in his entire or had been around people other than Gohan. Now he’s like 40+ years old and with a granddaughter and it’s just creepy. It’s like they took Goku from DBZA and tried to emulate it but failed miserably
I don’t get how ppl interpret this as “poor chi-chi, Goku never shows her affection” when they’ve canonically had sex. Like u said, Goku still acting naive abt these things has creepy undertones like he doesn’t even know what he and chi-chi did
@Tia Blue I just want to point out it that I got this from someone who commented from Geekdom101’s video about Goku and Chichi kissing in the cell saga that the kiss and sex could be a joke of vegeta misunderstanding Goku’s comment on trunks kissing mai that it could be Goku not having to give a mouth to mouth resuscitation of a senzu bean and Goku being surprised about it but I might be incorrect about this
I always considered it as Goku being weirded out that Trunks delivered the senzu bean in the form of a kiss, rather than not understanding what a kiss is, to be honest.
Most people call this just the Future Trunks arc but I like to call it 'The Future Trunks gets utterly and completely done dirty but its ok because the animation is pretty cool arc'.
@jesus barrera It's ok in the destroyed timeline because everything looks darker and grittier but in the normal world yeah they look like absolute horseshit
I think that final would be okay if Trunks didnt return to a bootleg version of his future and instead was part of the Tournament of Power. That way he might had been the one to restore the universes(and his timeline) or at least help to accomplish that, with some fanservice of him and 17 fighting together like Goku and Frieza since the whole theme of the arc was enemies sticking together and trusting each other for a common goal.
@@crowofjudgement4718 there was also a time in the cell arc when bulma said to her "I'm meeting up with my son" Her ma opened her eyes as a what the fuck
I got genuinely angry when Goku forgot the Mafuba seal. Yes, Goku acted dumb in Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z as well. But it was usually for lighthearted moments and not for pivotal, key moments like sealing Zamasu. And this is right after he forgot the senzu beans, so he should've learned from his mistake! What even was the point of the Mafuba at that point besides a waste of time and the most artificial of all kinds of tension? Why not just have it not work because of the jar being broken and glued back together? Or just have Goku not able to do it and Trunks NOT learning it in an instant from a badly filmed video of Piccolo? It genuinely frustrated me, not only because of how dumb Goku was, but because of how badly executed the entire Mafuba thing was. Plus, you could've just had Fused Zamasu too fast to be hit by it if you wanted a fight scene and had them do it on the weird Sky Zamasu thing that comes out of nowhere, as to not completely override every story Trunks has been in.
the sky zamasu thing makes sense to me(more than Zamasu cloning himself at least), but the ending just sucked and made everything that happened in the arc pointless.
It could've been an easy fix. Like have trunks miss the jar since he barely knows the technique or the seal was still with goku and was being held back not being able to get it to trunks.
@@TheeSinnerman well, bringing Mr Satan ended up, you know saving the universe in a rather inventive way instead of just goku and the gang always saving the day. And making Mr Satan a rather cool character
Randomized a few corrections: 1.Theiy not dead theiy don t exist anymore zeno erased them(dead peopel go to king enma and then to hell or heaven,peopel who are erased by zeno or hakaied by a GoD simply stop existing theiy un-made so to speak). 2.Zeno did not just erase that universe but its entire timeline so that all that was left was himself. wich is why whis said that he had to find a new home for mai and trunks where all his friends are still alive and zamasu hasen t become evil yet,that new home is a new timeline where mai and trunks already exist but the ones from the maintimeline can still live in,so while Zamasu technicaly suceeded in killing of all live in a universe by virtue of zeno erasing it, al of those peopel are still alive in the new timeline future trunks and future mai now live in,so Zamasu effectivly archived nothing in the end other then his owen death by the hands of zeno sama.
The Zeno ending would have been better if the characters were actually aware of the tragedy of the situation. Like, if they KNEW that summoning Zeno was the last-resort solution and would only end with him nuking the universe, but they had literally no other choice because Zamasu fused with it and was starting to bleed into other timelines. But no, in the context of the story, it's just Goku being a buffoon again
Ummm i don't think we watched the same show Literally everyone but goku got development even frieza And super did have a story but you just chose to ignore it Logical consistency ? Z has had its problems with it too so why are you only nit picking towards super? If you are trying too say super is a cash grab then thats a you problem because it was more than just fanservice and the fact you watched it till the end proves it
@@SonGoku-777 I'm not gonna go as far as to say that Super only existed for fanservice and merch, but on the whole it just fails as a continuation of Z for me. Z is not a flawless series, but IMHO it's way more well thought out in it's overall pacing, story and character development than Super is. And considering that Akira Toriyama basically made up Z's plot on the run that's kinda embarassing for Super. Saying that Super did have no Character development at all is certainly false (I love Freeza in Super), but the way the development was often delivered felt really forced and not natural at all. A lot of the problems I have with Super are summed up in this video perfectly: It threw interesting concepts out of the window as far as execution goes, simply to generate trailer-based "hype" around certain "big twists" and things just too often revert back to square one after the big bad is defeated. Take UI as an example: At least it was foreshadowed, but Goku just achieving it out of nowhere in a matter of 40 minutes felt really unnatural when compared to the long-time struggles he had to go through to achieve even SSJ. Super has great moments and good aspects, but it's not nearly as good as Z and original DB for me, because it just lacks the emotional investment of those series'. It stands way above of GT tho.
This is an old video, but just here to say that black destroying trunk's time machine makes sense. He wants to remove all threats to his elimination of all mortals. If trunks is stuck is another timeline, trunks can't stop him! Makes sense
@@Silverstain which is really, really weird, also zamasu wasnt erased in the future timeline, so um whats up with that? he wasnt wearing a time ring? and why is the hakai different than zeno earasure?
The most notable thing about that 3-part filler arc is that Copy-Vegeta was voiced by the Dub actor that isn't Sabat and was the one who did the classic Over 9000 line that was meme'd to death.
I'm just realising the parallels between Zamasu and Ginyu. Both stealing goku's body after a demonstration of power. Eventually defeated because they do not understand how to use goku's body due to a lack of understanding of said body.
Which was BS itself because he DID learn how Goku's body works and learned how to become a SSJ and even use the Kamehameha, and yet he became deformed because he was half mortal...? Which doesn't make sense because he was still a Kai just in a mortal's body, in which that shouldn't matter because Merged Zamasu's fusion never ran out regardless of Goku's body being mortal or not. WTF is this writing?
Actually, Zamasu had complete control over Goku's body, so you are wrong. Zamasu combined his own divine Ki and created his own super sayain, so he clearly understood how to use Goku's body. So their only similarity is that they both took his body
Yeah you completely missed the mark on that one. Zamasu was defeated because he fused with his other self, which does not have an immortal body. Thus making fused Zamasu no longer immortal.
My favorite part of this arc is when Piccolo reminds everyone about the Mafuba technique. It's a really in character moment and the flashback shown is fire (specially because it references a saga whose content is much more interesting than what's actually happening)!
So, the arc ends with a literal deus ex machina button being pressed and supergod just wiping the bad guy from existence... along with countless innocent people. It'll be great. Fans will love it.
I mean... countless? Pretty sure Trunks and his group was the last of survivors. Androids wiped out large portion of humanity, then Black followed up. Also, if he hadn't deleted that timeline, every mortal being in universe would've eventually been destroyed anyway.
@@yoursonisold8743 Sshhh don't argue with the dragon ball fandumb. First they will complain about zero stakes, goku saving the day, and everyone always being okay... ...But then here they'll whine about Goku (and pretty much everyone) losing, and everything ending with the heroes' loss in the one arc that can truly provide a sense of urgency and things at stake.
@@ShimmerScarlet It's bad because the ending of the arc made it inconsequential and no character seemed to have cared, not because it had stakes. The Cell Saga had stakes but is still one of the most beloved arcs within the fandom I *hate* these disingenuous arguments
@@supabutter Yeah! It's not that it's an inherently uninteresting conclusion. The writers not taking a moment to think about the impacts of the conclusion is what makes it uninteresting. Like, imagine if this led into another arc where the consequences of this have led to the team deciding to find some way to get the universe back and truly fix future trunks's timeline. Could easily end on a great, bittersweet note where the timelines to get merged, a lot of people are saved and it's for the greater good, but the team needs to say goodbye to future trunks for good, because if things are "fixed" in his timeline, that version of him never exists. (edited for phrasing)
The power scaling in this reminds me of the scene from GT where Omega Shenron is able to beat the snot out of SSJ4 Goku and SSJ4 Vegeta, but base Goku somehow holds back a massive blast.
I remember someone saying that that's his "changed" state and that he could've abandoned the spirit bomb and beat Omega to death with his bare fists if he wanted to.
At least it had a relation with the cliffhanger ending,since we never and will never know what happened to Goku after he fell off that crater if he died and somehow achieved omnipotence maybe?
@@canondripgoku5159 the general consensus with that scene is that Goku borrowed shenron's power in order to beat Omega shenron but because of that Goku was essentially dead and had to leave with shenron to the eternal dragon realm.
To be fair, while it doesn't make sense that Trunks can 1v1 Goku Black, it does make sense for Zamasu: It was never established that Zamasu was at the same level as SSJ Blue or even SSJ God, quite the opposite. When Goku do a sparing match against him, he just need to use SSJ2 to completely dominate him, hence why Zamasu wish to be immortal, but not Goku Black. This would also explain why Fused Zamasu is weaker/barely more powerfull, as Goku clearly said in the Buu saga, that using his Potaras to fuse with someone like Satan, would make him weaker than he already is, before the fusion. Edit: I know about the Vegito fight guys, my point was that Zamasu's Immortality allow him to survive any blows and injuries he takes. No matter how outmatched he is. This applies to Fused Zamasu too (Probably ? idk, i'm not defending Black's arc plot as a whole, it really makes no sense).
In fairness I don't think that's how that works, since Mr Satan is a fly compared to Goku at that point, where as Zamasu is a competent God Ki wielding Master Martial Artist! I just chock it up to Zamasu as clearly shown, degrading over time as he let his guard down with each hit, having compromised healing fusing with a mortal, and being a psychological wreck! But even if I can handwave the Father-Son Galick Gun as a cool move, on the logic that Zamasu was using a fraction of his power and toying with them, the 2nd beam struggle with Goku shouldn't have happened! Not at least without establishing that Zamasu was in shock and weakened from taking his own blast, and not without Goku at least doing something crazy like verbally screaming out a Kaioken x20!
Greenjey Again, huge plot hole there. Vegeta was stomping black when they returned from the hyperbolic time chamber. If fused Zamasu was even weaker than Black, then there’s no way he could have taken on both Goku and Vegeta at the same time. And don’t even get me started on Vegito.
The problem is that Trunks was fighting both Goku Black and Zamasu and still keeping up, and if Fused Zamasu is weaker (or only a bit stronger) than SSR Goku Black, then why he was keeping up against Vegito in super saiyan blue?? Im don't dislike the series or the characters (I love Goku Black) but it is a fact that the absurd power levels that Super has is one of his main problems
It making sense for Zamasu doesnt save the TRunks vs Black being stupid still. The scale of nonsense is tipped HEAVILY in the Trunks vs Black nonsense favor by a large sum. And this is before the rage boost.
Future zamasu was atleast Ssb level u genius Due to his immortality he couldn't gain zenkai boost lile black and the other saiyans throughout the arc but he was still able hold his own or tag them even though he was continuesly letting his guard down. Fused Zamasu combines both aspects of black and zamasu, since he is immortal and has the infinite ability to increase in strength plus the fact that he is a true deity which makes his potential higher than any other saiyan
I thought the Trunks/Gohan ice cream was actually touching. Trunks came to terms with the timeline differences as they relate to Gohan. Future Gohan was a wounded, battle-hardened mentor figure who died and gave Trunks all of his initial strength, while the main story's Gohan had the privilege of saving his world from the Androids/Cell. Trunks is almost endearingly disappointed in a strange ambivalent way because of this. Interesting dynamic in my opinion.
Yeah, I don't get why he has a problem with that episode. It serves to contrast Trunks timeline with the regular one, has him come to terms with how different environments led to people becoming different and that is not a bad a thing. Also the part where he imagines what a peaceful world where he can just enjoy a dinner with his mom and Mai is just heartbreaking. This entire arc is basically "being Future Trunks is suffering" and this episode encapsulates that perfectly.
He long since had time to come to terms with the 2 Gohans being different. However, I'm surprised Trunks isn't more disappointed in Gohan, since that dude became strong and squandered it.
@@InfernosReaper Trunks is happy cause gohan isn’t forced to fight and train like future gohan, both gohan’s never liked fighting they only fought to protect so seeing a peaceful gohan that doesn’t have to fight is nice, a type of life trunks always wanted, even for his late master
@@dolphwang5063 " they only fought to protect" Hard to do that when you slack off on training and hope someone else will save you. How many times does Gohan need to be taught that he needs to be ready for when someone else isn't around to bail him out?
Ah yes, future goten, the child that was never conceived because goku died from a heart virus before the androids who killed chichi showed up. Very 5head theory 🤣
Not only did the ending made completely no sense (personally I found it depressing for all the reasons already mentioned in the video) but we never got a chance to see Trunk's future not even a glance like it happened in DBZ. Episode 68 was a slap to the face when Beerus destroyed both the mineral that Bulma needed and the time machine to go to Trunk's future to see him again. Basically Toei animation is telling us "F you, Beerus destroyed any hope of y'all seeing Trunks again so forget about him and Mai". Is unbelievable the amount of people stating that this arc is the best arc of the Dragon Ball franchise, if it wasn't for the great animation quality during the battles I'm sure it wouldn't be praise so much as it is now. This could've been a masterpiece but they just F' it up...
One thing I do appreciate a little bit is that in the manga, Goku doesn't forget the seal for the Mafuba, but instead gets it mixed up with a coupon. The mistake's a bit more believable and honestly might not have even been Goku's fault, considering Roshi doesn't seem to take much care for his possessions and might've just given Goku the wrong slip of paper by mistake
Still better than the anime. I've just rewatched most of DBS (without fillers) for the first time since it's initial run. Those who claim that "Goku was always dumb" need to re-watch Dragonball & DBS to see that Goku has become DUMBER than a child. First forgets the zenzu beans, AND then the mafuba seal, less than 10 episodes apart?! Come on, Toei & co... :(
@@Metalton95 exactly. Goku has never been a genius, but he's definitely not so ignorant and stupid to undermine the severity of a dire situation by forgetting THE ONE THING that was supposed to give them a chance of winning.
I think it’s kinda stupid even if it’s a plausible mistake, what’s the point of Goku spending all that time learning of it if he doesn’t even bring the tools for it to work. I would’ve rather the plan just fails than for it to be a mistake that was made before the fight even started
The ending was truly awful, but what really got me is had they thought about it there's already a timeline where Trunks doesn't exist. The timeline where Cell killed him. Presumably Buu would still be dormant but that would be easily resolved, and both Trunks and that timeline's Bulma would be able to be reunited with a version of each other. Mai might still exist but it's still a hell of a lot better than what they went with.
Yeah, there's no Androids in that timeline due to the remote and Cell fucked off as well. Would've been the easiest spot to insert them. You could just handwave some bullshit about Mai conveniently also dying in that timeline.
@@PrinceVegita1 the time machines have preset coordinates yes, but the time machine used in this arc by the gang to get to FT's timeline IS the one Cell used, so they could have easily made it save that relative timeline as a go to at the end
Honestly, that would have been so much better. Just have Whis offhandedly say that the Mai of that timeline was a casualty of the androids or Cell and you can even avoid the two Mais thing and it would be fine. You can even, if you really want to, have Trunks then face off against that universe's version of Zamasu like he did with his androids.
A bigger question is: why was the Spirit Bomb that powerful when there wasn't a lot of people that was giving energy to it (yes ik Goku and Vegeta was there but they were weakened)
It took all the energie in the universe to beat kid buu, and you're telling me that a midget bomb fueled by handful of people was powerful enough to slice an immortal bieng who's more or less equal to ssb Vegito? This makes no sense.
Your reviews on this show is EVERYTHING I needed to hear. Thank you for voicing our frustrations while being so understanding to the animators! I really appreciate you putting the blame on Toei and their marketing obsession
I knew it wasn't good, I hated this arc, Goku Black had the biggest asspulls I've seen for a villain yet everyone will eat that shit up cause "Ah it's evil Goku, he's so cool Oh my god!", stuff like this makes really question the Dragon Ball fanbase.
@@arhangeo that the timeline explanation in Super is bull. If you think about it like Mark mentioned there would be no conflict as the timeline would not exist. The video has been taken down.
This is one of those arcs that could have done amazing in a different time or with different motives. A god that becomes evil showing that they have flaws and expands on the fighting strength they have/ goku black showing off the inherent power the body of a Saiyan has allowing him to be more powerful than his immortal counter part. Trunks reuniting with vegeta. Trunks having a love interest to show he grew up. Goku demonstrating that he is serious and doing something drastic when thinking of his family getting killed. There are so Amy easy fixes and ways to tie these great possibilities together if they had simply just written the story before hand and not based it off of marketing desires etc.
I get its sarcasm but do you really think there was supposed to be some symbolism here? Pretty sure they (the future Z fighters) just named him that because of his clothing choice. What else would they have called him? Lmao.
I still wish Trunks stayed in the regular timeline so that way he could’ve been apart of the TOP. Would’ve gave the whole universe dying an actual purpose.
It still kinda does in a "I'm still not sure if it's actually canon" sort of way. It can be kinda implied that it was after this in the new universe he was sent to, that Trunks meet the Supreme Kai of Time. It however doesn't explain what happens to Mai....so I don't know. I'll admit I'm grasping at straws here.
@Blizzard Flame Because it actually gives a reason for the arc to exist: Trunks in the Tournament. Its kinda the same deal with the ToP validating RoF.
@Blizzard Flame it would give the writers a plausible excuse why they allowed Trunks timeline to be erased. So that he had no other choice but to remain in the present and help save the Z Fighters' universe since he failed to save his own. It's like, "we really want Trunks to be in the ToP but in a way that makes sense. Oh why not have his future completely gone!" Instead of sending him to another timeline, which just makes the entire goku black arc seem pointless
Better option imo. Send Trunks and Mai to the timeline Cell came from, since presumably that timeline had no Buu or Goku Black, it lacks a Trunks, and Bulma is still alive. They could even give some explanation for there not being a Mai in that timeline, or have the one from Trunks timeline die at some point.
@@wolf10alpha68 Characters that existed will still exist in that timeline. He'll have to once again kill Babadi and Dabura since that time's Trunks was unable to but since Goku Black was already outside that timeline from the get go.....he won't have to worry about that again. Mai would naturally exist in that timeline but it would be a simple matter to either kill her off (as one of the off-screen victims to Cell prior to him killing Trunks) or since Goku Black incident will never happen make it so that the two Mai never meet. Other than those, that suggestion works great. Personally though, the two deserve a timeline that's not coming back from the brink of destruction....just not the way the anime went about it.
You were saying that the final episode of the arc is pointless because of the ending But it's even worse It makes *all* of Future Trunks' story retroactively pointless. Remember Episode of Trunks? Well they all die. Remember the Trunks epilogue? Well they all die. Remember when Trunks went back to fix his timelines hopeless future by saving Goku? Well his timeline and everyone in it dies.
@@legacytag of course I know it's canon, but have you ever heard of headcanon? When fans don't like how the rest of a story plays out they delete it from their mind. For me Dragon Ball ended with Z, Game of Thrones never went past season 3 and Naruto never had a War Arc.
Super Goku in a nutshell "Hey so like ya know about that dbz abridged thing? Ya know how they made Goku more dimwitted and funny? Well let's do that, but worse!"
@@567643tome I watched Kai and surprise, he's not retarded. No one's claiming Goku's superman but he's not whatever Toei thinks he is. Hell, he's more tolerable in the Super manga
@@bipstymcbipste5641 I always liked to think that the Kai version of dbz is the canon version (Specifically for the dub) Since it's way more accurate to the original story
I always just assumed Vegeto unfused inside Buu because of Buu's weird magic body and anything goes with him. And Super doesn't retcon something that was never 100% stated, it just gave it a reason to happen, but I think they could pulled some cool stuff of Vegeto trying to unfuse if it had been permanent.
"Vegetto's supposed to wear a combination of clothes" It's really amusing how that works, considering all Vegettos so far have worn Goku's top clothing and Vegeta's "underwear" suit only being used on their *specifically made for marketing* one, minus the one using DBSuper stuff. And then there's Kefla.
He talks about how power scaling is important in this arc, wow can’t wait to see what he says about the power scaling in the top arc and califla and kale
Tbf, the scaling isn't as bad in the ToP since there are LOGICAL (as opposed to the Goku Black arc) reasons why a character might be holding back and why two characters normally on different levels might seemingly fight on the same. That reason is to prevent accidentally killing someone. It's pretty stupid that Goku goes Blue every time he is testing one of his teammates despite obvious power gaps, but but at least we know he can suppress his base power and therefore the multiplier would not boost him nearly as much. As for Kale, Caulifla, and Kefla their real problem is how easily they power up and less so the scaling on display. We don't know Berserk's actual multiplier/strength boost, so being able to tank a Blue Kamehameha the first time we see it is fine. What's more is that this form's power is also on display in the Broly movie, which stays relatively consistent to that of the anime (assuming his base power is greater then Kale's). Likewise, Kefla's significant power boost is not nearly as bad as made out to be. Why? Because it actually follows the ridiculous exponential boost that occurred in the Buu arc with Vegito. Remember Vegito toyed with Buu, a Buu stronger then both SSJ3 and Ultimate Gohan. And this was a Vegito in SSJ1. Just look at this scaling: SSJ1 Vegito > > > > Buuhan > Tenkshan > Ultimate Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku > SSJ2 Vegeta That's a ridiclous boost if I've ever seen one. If Vegito were SSJ3 it would be unimaginable, and Kefla had the power of a Berserk blue tanking monstrocity all while being SSJ2. So i am fine wit this. If anything, the putrid boost in the Goku Black arc is the problem not the one in the ToP.
15:12 I read somewhere that there’s actually a mistranslation. I read that what he means is how can he give Mai a senzu mouth-to-mouth, vegeta misunderstood and thought goku meant kissing, and goku then DENIES because he’s never given someone a senzu mouth-to-mouth so they continue the misunderstanding... Goku has kissed Chi-chi in filler back in Z and Im sure they’re aware but they just mess the entire script up.
This actually makes sense. I always thought that scene was just Goku being a dumbass but it was just a joke about Goku and Vegeta misunderstanding each other. I still think it's a badly written scene because so many are confused by it
I really liked Trunks catching up with Gohan, his entire character is so heavily tied to Gohan that it'd have been weird to go the whole arc without them interacting.
Actually Challenger that’s actually a really good idea. Similar to the Buu Arcs, this has good concepts, but was trash at executing a lot of them. Get this comment upvoted!
How about extending the fight between the fusions, using moves from the manga? Father and son Garlick Ho struggling better against Zamasu's holy wrath and full power kamehameha finalizing the first "hit very hard" on fused Zamasu. Goku and Vegeta fusing before eat the senzu bean and the last one being used by Goku to perform the Genki Dama. The "never kiss" gets a hakai, so as the "better friend promise" (It's kinda useless, even being cute and make me less mad with the final). All things forgotten by Goku would be remebered, however, Goku stills leaves the seal, but in the time machine, so Bulma have to recover while Trunks and Mai are dealing with Zamasu, but she doesn't make it fast enough and this is how the trap fails. After Trunks defeat Zamasu using the Genki Dama (because Zamasu can defend himself from that) as a sword, instead of Infinite Zamasu, the imortal part begins to recover AND THEN they can use Mafuba properly, with Goku leaving the pot in the Mount Paozu house or New Namek (maybe this one isn't a good idea because of Moro) Trunks and Mai (optional) only returns to leave the present crew, the ending scene still remains, it's nice and I like how present Gohan reminds future Gohan in Trunks eyes. Also, those "trying be badass" interactions between kid Trunks and Mai? HAKAI
@@zerostars7499 Thank you! And I really agree, good ideas but poor execution. For example I actually really like Trunks's spirit sword thing and him being the one to finish off Zamasu, so why not have hints of him learning the Spirit Bomb when he's training with Goku and Vegeta the first time?
@@sandstorm2384 Those are actually great ideas. In particular I feel like instead of forgetting the senzu and the seal, why not just have the seal not be strong enough? Zamasu is a god, he can probably bust outta that no worries
@@Alexis_Customs common even though there was some few problems with the Stannis arc ending, sansa being sold off to Ramsey and the dorne arc the last season of game of thrones good just wish they continued it on from Jon's death
The first part of this arc was so goddamn powerful and I absolutely loved it. Goku Black was intimidating as fuck and it was amazing. And while i still really like this Arc, it really dropped the ball towards the end. I like the idea of an ending where the heroes win but lose but yeah you need a good reason for that to happen.
I feel like Trunks seeing what his mentor Gohan has become was a good part and necessary for future episodes when Gohan realizes FTrunks was disappointed in what Gohan has become. helped with motivation for Gohan to become a fighter again.
Dragon ball super; the manga: ok lets have trunks be able to hold off zamasu but not be anywhere near goku black in power. the anime: he you know what would be cool!?!?!?! (it wasn't as cool as they thought)
@@webbiefade14 no it isn't, the concept keeps changing but the execution isn't, which means they executed the bullshit concept and demands of their client amazingly.
@@HullsColby lol okay so you think the concept was terrible instead? That's fair lol. But still the execution of those terrible concepts were subpar, why? Because Toei had different staff members coming in and adding their own pieces to the story, which explains why the structure of the arc seemed so shitty. Ex: One day the Toei staff wrote Vegeta to be stronger than Goku after training in the HTC while Goku practiced the mafuba, and the next day a different set of staff wrote Goku to suddenly be stronger with no explanation and overpower merged Zamasu when wasn't even stronger than Goku Black himself.
@@webbiefade14 And that's exactly why they did the execution amazingly, out of all the bullshit the executives are doing the directing management makes sure to make it entertaining. There's no deeper science behind this or outside or third party influence to it, they just did a great job at executing it.
The one thing that bothers me the most about this arc and specifically Vegito is the missed opportunity for foreshadowing. Earlier in the arc, Supreme Kai was shown to be unfused because of a wish made on the dragon balls. When the arc was first airing, I thought this decision was going to foreshadow Goku and Vegeta or someone else fusing to defeat the main villain, then worrying that they're going to be stuck fused forever before Supreme Kai or someone reminds them that you can just use the dragon balls. Instead of that happening, they just introduced a time limit to fusion between mortals and the decision to unfuse Supreme Kai had no consequence on the narrative at all.
Future Trunks: “Black killed my mom right in front of me” Goku: “yeah, yeah but how strong is he” Black: “I killed your wife and son” Goku: “YOU’RE GONNA PAYYY *random inexplicable rage boost*”
To be fair he described it in detail taunting Goku as he had him stabbed against the wall. Also Super Goku being Super Goku probably didn't process Bulma dying as Bulma really dying.
Wolfgod 64 it wouldn’t make sense for him to get mad at the androids, him getting mad is slightly different. Black is actually the person who killed him, his wife, and kids in that timeline. The androids he was exposed to were from his present timeline, where they didn’t kill anyone
@@williamrichter1113 That's a good point, but he also didn't hate the Androids for killing Krillin in the future, someone we KNOW he flips out over the death of. Same with Buu come to think of it. I think with Goku it is very "in the moment".
I hated how the power of the different forms are wildly inconsistent. At times, super saiyan blue looks and feels weaker than just their super saiyan forms.
Imagine if Zamasu took over Gohan's body, that would be way more emotional watching Trunks' greatest challenge be the same man who trained him and whose death he avenged.
@@stefanradebach2889 It's a shame that we will never get to see Gohan and Future Gohan meet (Also it's really stupid that Future Trunks never went to new namek and revived everyone in his timeline)
@@jinxluvver3909 I know, and I wouldn't be surprised if people think that laziness is why Gohan got nerfed to the point where he can barely go super saiyan, Goku is even more of a moron then he was, Future Trunks got screwed over at the end of the Goku Black Arc and why it's basically The Goku and Vegeta Show.
Now that I'm looking back at the Goku Black Arc, it actually reminded me of something TFS once said during one of their podcasts about the Universe Survival Arc. I think it was Kaiser or Takahata who summarized that particular arc as "a series of incredible moments surrounded by BS." In hindsight, I think that same quote could sum up the entire series as a whole. So many awesome scenes (including the Spirit Sword and SS Rage) are introduced with hardly any explanation or setup in the anime. And now that we're getting into the Universe Survival Arc, i think it'll be clear that all these problems only get worse. At the end of the day, I might still favor Super over GT, but in all honesty it doesn't really say much. A turd that has two cherries on top instead of one is still a turd. This arc had so much potential to truly stand out among the rest, and that's honestly what hurts the most.
It depends on the aspects you're looking at I think. I don't mean this in a "look how shmart I am hur hur" way, but if we took the ethos, pathos, logos approach; the Goku Black arc is all ethos and pathos (ethics and emotion). Pretty much zero logos. If you're die hard on logos, Goku Black is terrible. I am not, at least not with a story about Gods and mortals with which divinity has always existed to answer ethics and emotion. And on both those levels it is perfect.
@@wolfgod6443 No need to worry about making it sound like you're bragging. If it helps you get your point across, go for it. In the end, we're all here to say our piece about the show and move on, hopefully without sparking another internet war. And yeah, I get what you mean. The entire arc definitely had some of its best scenes ride on emotion (like Goku getting mad and, again, the Spirit Sword.) In the end, though, I still can't say the arc was all that good. In terms of DB Super, it might be on par with the Universe Survival Arc To me, though, it still doesn't make it good, especially when comparing it to everything DB has done up to that point. At the very least, the entire arc was OK for me.
@@cicada8981 I guess my only concern would be whether the emotion was justified. Someone getting angry and powering up can happen without reason. I think Trunks and Goku had well written reasoning and backing behind their motivations and decisions (except maybe the end where Trunks isn't nearly sad enough). And Zamasu and Goku Black NEED to be delusional and have no idea what they're doing exactly to work. In other words, they need to be crazy enough to think they're the good guys. If they knew they were selfish, they wouldn't be doing what they're doing. To me they got that right, and so the logic doesn't matter because it is thought provoking in other ways. However, if it did not hit its mark with you, or you simply desire logic over anything else, that's fine.
I feel that instead of the whole “rage” thing (that doesn’t make sense) trunks received, it would’ve made a lot more sense if the others gave him super sayian god. He’d have trouble reaching that power again, but at that moment where the “rage” transformation originally happened, it would’ve been PERFECT if trunks achieved god again then, and the transformation would’ve been much more epic.
I respect your opinion, but if you ask me, I think he should get super Saiyan 3. It makes sense because goku showed it to him and it would fit much better when he gets angry because without training he would need to perform the ritual and while that is totally possible, it doesn’t feel as satisfying as seeing him get pushed over the edge. But with ssj god he would have a much easier time fighting
@@workuc5595 Yeah, SSJ3 is something 2 kids casually learned in an afternoon, so Future Trunks would have that down easy... And best of all, that means more products to market.
Still my favourite storyline from Super before DBS: Broly. My biggest issue with this arc is that Goku and Vegeta were put back in their old outfits :/ the new outfits were a good addition and I don't understand why they didn't just keep them in them for the whole series. It's such a small stupid thing but it makes me mad.
Yeah I liked the whis giis too It would've been better if they lasted until after the ToP where they would have been battle damaged and by the time super Broly happens they would get back to there old giis.
Goku Black Arc In a Nutshell: One of the best conceptualized Dragon Ball Arcs, had some of the best scenes in the entire series, but had possibly the largest mistake made in the entire series with its ending.
Sadly Vegito has been irelevant since day 1. He never wins anything. The only fusion that ever achived anything was Gogeta. Both in Janemba movie and dbs broly.
Vlad 117 I wholeheartedly agree the fact that vegito just never finished a fight always bothered me but the fact that Gogeta (except GT but for some reason they changed his entire personality to be goofy) has literally always finished a fight before his fusion ran out yea Broly was wished away but that fight was over Gogeta was still fused after that
Trunks killing Zamasu with the "sword spirit bomb" and leaving it there would have been fine. Yeah it would have been silly, but at least it would have worked. But nope, they went ahead and made it 100 times worse for NO damn reason. Worst arc ending of the entire franchise.
Zamasu is immortal. How you leave it at that? It would just be a plot hole where his wish of becoming immortal made to the most powerful set of Dragon Balls wasn't actually fulfilled. I do like that even with his physical body deteriorating due to his poorly thought out fusion with Black, Zamasu itself still can't be destroyed no matter what. I also like how without a body (and probably a mind) just his hatred of mortals and desire for their destruction spreads infinitely, even starting to break into the regular timeline. That's... Not something you can win against by fighting. And I like that something like that can exist in Dragon Ball. The part I don't like about the ending is Future Trunks being sent to a new timeline that was created in a really contrived way during the arc. He doesn't share a connection with those people, they aren't HIS people. There's even a Trunks and Mai native to that timeline and that was probably a very awkward meeting. It would make much more sense for Trunks to remain with the present folks he shares a strong connection with already. It's just a way they can take him out of the picture now that his arc is done, and not only they try to pass it as a happy ending despite it not being a happy situation at all, it also flies in the face of one of the key points of this arc: time travel and messing with alternate dimensions is a terrible idea with wildly unpredictable results.
@Tarantula On Your Screen but the spirit bomb kills and purifies evil. Which is why Kid Buu dies and gets reborn as Uub. So it should have killed/purified Zamasu and end the Arc perfectly. Doesnt matter if he's "immortal" because he fuses with goku black who is not zamasu in the bodly sense.
I think Goku has definitely kissed Chi Chi before, its just that when Vegeta asked "you've never done that before?" Goku thought he was reffering to the baby bird thing, not kissing. Gokus initial reaction was most likely a translation thing.
I hate how every single piece of bad writing in anime/manga is always initially written off as a “translation thing.” Any piece of bad writing MUST be because the translators were incompetent, and not because the writers wrote something badly.
My kiss turned Goku Black good.
Totally Not Mark loved the video sir. Keep them coming. I’ll keep sharing them(:
this arc is really weird it has some really awesome episodes and some fucking bad ones... but in general I quite enjoyed it... except for the damn stupid ending.
As if Goku Black could ever love a *ningen.*
On a more serious note, I remember Plague of Gripes making a video about why the timelines don't work, though it got removed from RUclips from all indication. Any chance you'll collaborate with him for yours?
Now everytime I see goku black
I remember Totally Not Mark kissing black
Maybe make a video of how would you fix the Goku Black Arc
The man who killed bulma was wearing her best friends face
That is some sad shit
Fr
@@roseakanotfakegoku Look who's talking
@@shanmaknojiya8136 can't you her my sarcasm why would i care about some mortal
@@roseakanotfakegoku Bruh, Jiren and Broly would clap you
@@jantheking7028 what does that have to do with anything
Trunks: “HOLD YOUR FIRE, THIS MAN ISN’T BLACK!”
Soldier: “what.”
*_w h a t_*
ItsMad Lad the best part about that line. Is that there was no way they didn’t do it on purpose 😂😂
N A N I
Hello There no the best part is Trunk’s va talking about recording that line
The greatest out-of-context line of dialogue I've heard in God knows how long. XD
There's no logical reason Trunks and Mai didn't stay in the present timeline. The timeline they went to already had them, the present timeline did not, and Future Trunks being added to the Z-Fighters roster would've been legendary.
He and Mai are not present in the last episode of DBZ (Which takes place years after this arc in the timeline)
Could you imagine if trunks was in the TOP? That would've been awesome. He would be really interesting to see, specially because he has no god powers but can still grow by mastering other transformations
Agreed!
They could have send them to the timeline where he died I'm sure he is needed there to stop buu and protect earth
It would make the roster for the ToP too Saiyan for my taste. It's already overwhelmingly human.
Also, Freeza would probably implode from sheer anger. AND figure out about time-travel.
AND figure out that present Trunks is Future Trunks.
This is all knowledge I wouldn't want Freeza to have on any capacity.
“This man isn’t black” is the greatest out of context anime clip ever
"What?"
JJBA: Are you challenging me?
@@magentapurpleyap5566 cue cherry licking scene
@@patrickcurtis642 RERORERORERORERORERORERORERORERORERO
What about ghost stories
I really hate how they've massacred Goku's character for no reason. Compare Namek-Android Saga Goku to any of this. The kissing dialogue from Goku was just unnecessary.
I can't even enjoy it. It's like I'm not even watching Goku
@@theavatar9191 It's extremely out of character for him. Goku is 40-something around this time, not a man-child. He has had years of fighting experience, and he has shown his maturity countless times in DBZ, so it just makes no sense to ruin his character like that.
Master I feel like they made him dumb for ultra instinct
Cue all Goku haters saying "this is what Goku ALWAYS was in Toriyama's vision", probably dropping the infamous quote when he said he wanted people to think he wasn't a good guy at all.
fml
@@warwick802 not only that, we're talking about a goku that was actually very smart when it comes to fighting and was average in term of actual inteligence and they're trying to say that this 40 year old genius fighter who was able to tutor Gohan even more effectively than Vegeta taught Trunks doesnt know what a kiss is is just pure BS
The whole “Goku not understanding sex” thing only worked in DB because he was a 12 year old who had never seen a woman in his entire or had been around people other than Gohan. Now he’s like 40+ years old and with a granddaughter and it’s just creepy. It’s like they took Goku from DBZA and tried to emulate it but failed miserably
I don’t get how ppl interpret this as “poor chi-chi, Goku never shows her affection” when they’ve canonically had sex. Like u said, Goku still acting naive abt these things has creepy undertones like he doesn’t even know what he and chi-chi did
@Tia Blue I just want to point out it that I got this from someone who commented from Geekdom101’s video about Goku and Chichi kissing in the cell saga that the kiss and sex could be a joke of vegeta misunderstanding Goku’s comment on trunks kissing mai that it could be Goku not having to give a mouth to mouth resuscitation of a senzu bean and Goku being surprised about it but I might be incorrect about this
I always considered it as Goku being weirded out that Trunks delivered the senzu bean in the form of a kiss, rather than not understanding what a kiss is, to be honest.
+Grandusursly Wek: yeah I kinda get the feeling that’s what they meant, but they told the joke pretty poorly
@Tia Blue thats understandable
You’re kissing Goku Black? Bro, you’re not respecting social distancing
Arctic Alpaca too late. He got the black rona
😂😂
The most Tumblr thing I’ve ever seen
@@YodaSmokes you mean e b o l a
Aqua Armour I mean sars_covblack
I don't know what's worse. The fact that Mai thought that a bullet would work on Black or the fact that it pushed him off his chair.
honestly considering theres a scene where super saiyan goku gets hurt by krillin throwing a pebble at him it might have worked
@@TheAustronaut03 that's filler
@@aron1089 so is the bullet scene
@@TheAustronaut03 and yet here we are
@@aron1089
That was a filler? Wait why did Dragon Ball Z Kai include that scene?
Best part of the filler is when Future Trunks found out Krillin married Android 18. Great moment.
True
Nah
@@xnortheast1106 yeah
So are we gonna ignore the fact that Mark drew himself kissing Goku Black
Now the pink hair of goku black makes more sense
Gay
No. GAAAAAAAY
Hah GAAAAAYYYYYYY!!!!
Super Vegito? More like Super GAY
Most people call this just the Future Trunks arc but I like to call it 'The Future Trunks gets utterly and completely done dirty but its ok because the animation is pretty cool arc'.
I just call it the Black arc, let's be honest, Goku Black carried the whole damn thing once he was gone, it was all over
@jesus barrera It's ok in the destroyed timeline because everything looks darker and grittier but in the normal world yeah they look like absolute horseshit
@jesus barrera Eh, I disagree, I like the look of it to be honest, but too many of its events was total ass.
Laaibah Wahid true dat🤔😄
I think that final would be okay if Trunks didnt return to a bootleg version of his future and instead was part of the Tournament of Power.
That way he might had been the one to restore the universes(and his timeline) or at least help to accomplish that, with some fanservice of him and 17 fighting together like Goku and Frieza since the whole theme of the arc was enemies sticking together and trusting each other for a common goal.
10:00 Also this episode is special because is one of those rare instances where Bulma's mom opens her eyes.
Holy crap
There was also one episode in dbz where she opens her eyes (I think it was the beginnign of the Buu arc, but I'm not sure).
Che cosa ci fai qui!
Ho visto tutti i tuoi video di mass effect 1 2 3
@@crowofjudgement4718 there was also a time in the cell arc when bulma said to her "I'm meeting up with my son"
Her ma opened her eyes as a what the fuck
You don’t know how much I missed the “I’M BLACK Y’ALL” song.
Best part of this videos easily 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Never even heard the song before. Being black, I’m considering it for my theme song
Yeah, from the og video
@@garouthedemon7401 search up 'im black y'all'
Air-headed Aviator it’s a famous clip from the movie CB4
Interviewer: Describe the Goku Black ark in one word.
Mark: "What?!"
Piccolo in the distance: ᵂʰᵃᵗˀᵎ
@@XG417 me: "Jeez, I think I can hear that"
TheDecepticondude **naniii?!?!?
Zamasu
Interviewer: Fascinating. Second, follow up question: how do you feel about the ending?
Mark: "The Fuck?!"
Trunks:”this man is not black”
Soldier:doesn’t shoot
We live in a society
Edit:weirdly this is kinda relevant
Get a load of this society.
*Ross Geller pointing to the background*
Hey cops don't shoot unless ur black its been proven 😂
Sile72 sorry I’m so lame for your standards
FORGIVE ME,FORGIVE ME,I ASK FOR FORGIVENESS
A society doesn't live in an us.
It's "Hold your fire! This man isn't black!" I don't remember how it goes in original dub.
Let's be honest, Chi Chi has been calling sex training for a very long time.
Got A Name For It?
Got A Name For It?
@@nocontent3644 yeah special indurance training that helps increase ki usage
@@KingOOF22 👌
:/
I got genuinely angry when Goku forgot the Mafuba seal.
Yes, Goku acted dumb in Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z as well. But it was usually for lighthearted moments and not for pivotal, key moments like sealing Zamasu. And this is right after he forgot the senzu beans, so he should've learned from his mistake! What even was the point of the Mafuba at that point besides a waste of time and the most artificial of all kinds of tension? Why not just have it not work because of the jar being broken and glued back together? Or just have Goku not able to do it and Trunks NOT learning it in an instant from a badly filmed video of Piccolo? It genuinely frustrated me, not only because of how dumb Goku was, but because of how badly executed the entire Mafuba thing was.
Plus, you could've just had Fused Zamasu too fast to be hit by it if you wanted a fight scene and had them do it on the weird Sky Zamasu thing that comes out of nowhere, as to not completely override every story Trunks has been in.
the sky zamasu thing makes sense to me(more than Zamasu cloning himself at least), but the ending just sucked and made everything that happened in the arc pointless.
It's poor writing to make Goku look unreasonably stupid.
It could've been an easy fix. Like have trunks miss the jar since he barely knows the technique or the seal was still with goku and was being held back not being able to get it to trunks.
@@TheeSinnerman well, bringing Mr Satan ended up, you know saving the universe in a rather inventive way instead of just goku and the gang always saving the day. And making Mr Satan a rather cool character
This is why I prefer the manga he actually is smarter there
The ending was really bad, doesn't everyone ending up as dead also mean that Zamasu achieved his zero mortal plan? In universe 7 atleast.
Randomized
a few corrections:
1.Theiy not dead theiy don t exist anymore zeno erased them(dead peopel go to king enma and then to hell or heaven,peopel who are erased by zeno or hakaied by a GoD simply stop existing theiy un-made so to speak).
2.Zeno did not just erase that universe but its entire timeline so that all that was left was himself. wich is why whis said that he had to find a new home for mai and trunks where all his friends are still alive and zamasu hasen t become evil yet,that new home is a new timeline where mai and trunks already exist but the ones from the maintimeline can still live in,so while Zamasu technicaly suceeded in killing of all live in a universe by virtue of zeno erasing it, al of those peopel are still alive in the new timeline future trunks and future mai now live in,so Zamasu effectivly archived nothing in the end other then his owen death by the hands of zeno sama.
LARS Liljeberg correct
@@larsliljeberg3970 dang, good points, broken english and all. Well said my friend
Randomized ....
I guess we have to find out on the next episode of Dragon Ball Super
Goku destroyed all mortals. Just not the Goku we expected to.😅
I'm SO glad you included the "this man isn't Black!" scene. Priceless.
I lost an afternoon one day watching black DB fans reacting to that dubbed scene for the first time. I recommend that experience to everyone.
The Zeno ending would have been better if the characters were actually aware of the tragedy of the situation. Like, if they KNEW that summoning Zeno was the last-resort solution and would only end with him nuking the universe, but they had literally no other choice because Zamasu fused with it and was starting to bleed into other timelines.
But no, in the context of the story, it's just Goku being a buffoon again
The manga arc ending is more like this in a sense
@@Grizzexploder nearly the same thing
Intro to this was absolutely hilarious
“I’m doing this for you” and “I love you” had my sides in knots lol 😂
Every part of this has some sort of comedy.
To quote abridged Yamcha:gay
@@sbevexlr848 as long as the internet exists, DBZA will be referenced.
@@TheBluePhoenix008 you are speaking the truth
Story? Character Development? Logical Consistency in World Building?
Who needs that garbage when you have FANSERVICE. Gotta sell that merch somehow.
What are those three things? Are they fruits?
@@Smileface2144 Cue stupid Goku thinks everything is Food.
@@Ineedgames god fucking damn it almost made me spit my drink LMAO
Ummm i don't think we watched the same show
Literally everyone but goku got development even frieza
And super did have a story but you just chose to ignore it
Logical consistency ? Z has had its problems with it too
so why are you only nit picking towards super? If you are trying too say super is a cash grab then thats a you problem because it was more than just fanservice and the fact you watched it till the end proves it
@@SonGoku-777
I'm not gonna go as far as to say that Super only existed for fanservice and merch, but on the whole it just fails as a continuation of Z for me. Z is not a flawless series, but IMHO it's way more well thought out in it's overall pacing, story and character development than Super is. And considering that Akira Toriyama basically made up Z's plot on the run that's kinda embarassing for Super. Saying that Super did have no Character development at all is certainly false (I love Freeza in Super), but the way the development was often delivered felt really forced and not natural at all.
A lot of the problems I have with Super are summed up in this video perfectly: It threw interesting concepts out of the window as far as execution goes, simply to generate trailer-based "hype" around certain "big twists" and things just too often revert back to square one after the big bad is defeated. Take UI as an example: At least it was foreshadowed, but Goku just achieving it out of nowhere in a matter of 40 minutes felt really unnatural when compared to the long-time struggles he had to go through to achieve even SSJ. Super has great moments and good aspects, but it's not nearly as good as Z and original DB for me, because it just lacks the emotional investment of those series'. It stands way above of GT tho.
Every DBZ villian: I'm the ultimate evil.
Adult Gohan: Hold my dinner, I have ice cream to eat first.
Lol
That ice cream scene must've from a non-canon "What if Gohan was from the hood" movie. What a fucking gangsta
This is an old video, but just here to say that black destroying trunk's time machine makes sense. He wants to remove all threats to his elimination of all mortals. If trunks is stuck is another timeline, trunks can't stop him! Makes sense
and also that hakai does erase all version of a being unless they are protected by a time ring
He really didn't saw anything and just spout stufficio for masses that don't want to use their brains.
I think the problem is, how would he go back after. Did he know he would be pulled back eventually? I don't remember, but maybe not.
@@gabrielvasconcelos4055 he destroyed the time machine while he was being ripped back to his time
@@Silverstain which is really, really weird, also zamasu wasnt erased in the future timeline, so um whats up with that? he wasnt wearing a time ring? and why is the hakai different than zeno earasure?
The most notable thing about that 3-part filler arc is that Copy-Vegeta was voiced by the Dub actor that isn't Sabat and was the one who did the classic Over 9000 line that was meme'd to death.
Copy-Vegeta was awesome for that particular nostalgia factor.
Im Suprised He Still Knew How To Fo The Voice
Dude not even a minute in and this man has already lost his mind more than in his GT video
Thank you🤣👌
LightningSaiyajin super frustrates him but gt bores him
uh oh, this dont bode well
@Meem Ain
It's already known tbh that Super is worse
The Lover Boy he said he prefers Super.
I freely admit, I turned off my brain and thoroughly enjoyed this arc.
@QUEENDOM I had to in the Buu saga.
OmegaTou At least you admit that. Props. I can't say the same for many others.
jp3813 if only it worked in the super buu arc
@QUEENDOM Then you're not watching Dragon Ball correctly lmao.
@QUEENDOM sure... Lmao
I'm just realising the parallels between Zamasu and Ginyu. Both stealing goku's body after a demonstration of power. Eventually defeated because they do not understand how to use goku's body due to a lack of understanding of said body.
Which was BS itself because he DID learn how Goku's body works and learned how to become a SSJ and even use the Kamehameha, and yet he became deformed because he was half mortal...? Which doesn't make sense because he was still a Kai just in a mortal's body, in which that shouldn't matter because Merged Zamasu's fusion never ran out regardless of Goku's body being mortal or not. WTF is this writing?
Actually, Zamasu had complete control over Goku's body, so you are wrong. Zamasu combined his own divine Ki and created his own super sayain, so he clearly understood how to use Goku's body. So their only similarity is that they both took his body
Yeah you completely missed the mark on that one. Zamasu was defeated because he fused with his other self, which does not have an immortal body. Thus making fused Zamasu no longer immortal.
IMO they should have inserted Future Trunks into the main timeline permanently instead of putting Trunks into some random ass timeline.
Epsilonsama
At least that's an effect that made the arc relevant but stills sucks
My favorite part of this arc is when Piccolo reminds everyone about the Mafuba technique. It's a really in character moment and the flashback shown is fire (specially because it references a saga whose content is much more interesting than what's actually happening)!
So, the arc ends with a literal deus ex machina button being pressed and supergod just wiping the bad guy from existence... along with countless innocent people. It'll be great. Fans will love it.
I mean... countless? Pretty sure Trunks and his group was the last of survivors. Androids wiped out large portion of humanity, then Black followed up.
Also, if he hadn't deleted that timeline, every mortal being in universe would've eventually been destroyed anyway.
They used a deus ex machina button and it was actually a monkey's paw that backfired? Wow what an asspull that had no consequences- wait a minute.
@@yoursonisold8743 Sshhh don't argue with the dragon ball fandumb. First they will complain about zero stakes, goku saving the day, and everyone always being okay...
...But then here they'll whine about Goku (and pretty much everyone) losing, and everything ending with the heroes' loss in the one arc that can truly provide a sense of urgency and things at stake.
@@ShimmerScarlet It's bad because the ending of the arc made it inconsequential and no character seemed to have cared, not because it had stakes.
The Cell Saga had stakes but is still one of the most beloved arcs within the fandom
I *hate* these disingenuous arguments
@@supabutter Yeah! It's not that it's an inherently uninteresting conclusion. The writers not taking a moment to think about the impacts of the conclusion is what makes it uninteresting. Like, imagine if this led into another arc where the consequences of this have led to the team deciding to find some way to get the universe back and truly fix future trunks's timeline. Could easily end on a great, bittersweet note where the timelines to get merged, a lot of people are saved and it's for the greater good, but the team needs to say goodbye to future trunks for good, because if things are "fixed" in his timeline, that version of him never exists. (edited for phrasing)
The power scaling in this reminds me of the scene from GT where Omega Shenron is able to beat the snot out of SSJ4 Goku and SSJ4 Vegeta, but base Goku somehow holds back a massive blast.
Lmao that scene almost made me chuck my phone at the wall, along with how he was somehow invincible while charging the spirit bomb
I remember someone saying that that's his "changed" state and that he could've abandoned the spirit bomb and beat Omega to death with his bare fists if he wanted to.
At least it had a relation with the cliffhanger ending,since we never and will never know what happened to Goku after he fell off that crater if he died and somehow achieved omnipotence maybe?
@@bensoncheung2801 its called change state where he is invulnerable
@@canondripgoku5159 the general consensus with that scene is that Goku borrowed shenron's power in order to beat Omega shenron but because of that Goku was essentially dead and had to leave with shenron to the eternal dragon realm.
"It's mindless but visually fun."
So... the original Broly movie, basically?
@DimensionalBattleStudios "Substance" is a strong word, but I see your point.
So Dragon Ball
@DimensionalBattleStudios so the bio broly movie
Better than Super at least regardless if it had substance, whatever or not
Jetman2021 Dragon Ball is not mindless, it’s far more coherent with better written characters than Z, GT and Super
I always hated Zeno , his character feels pointless and annoying. Also Goku kisses chi chi when he woke from the heart virus in DBZ
Yessir, u got a good eye my guy
That was not only filler but the kiss was only in the English dub
@@Iam_wIll1 how does that even work, did they just animate the kissing or did they edit the scene so it looked like they were kissing?
@@blauwbeer556 the "kissing" was off screen. The dub added a kissing sound effect which didn't exist in the original
Zeno is like the laugh track for DBZ, he is there to tell the little kids when to be excited. I hate it.
To be fair, while it doesn't make sense that Trunks can 1v1 Goku Black, it does make sense for Zamasu:
It was never established that Zamasu was at the same level as SSJ Blue or even SSJ God, quite the opposite. When Goku do a sparing match against him, he just need to use SSJ2 to completely dominate him, hence why Zamasu wish to be immortal, but not Goku Black.
This would also explain why Fused Zamasu is weaker/barely more powerfull, as Goku clearly said in the Buu saga, that using his Potaras to fuse with someone like Satan, would make him weaker than he already is, before the fusion.
Edit: I know about the Vegito fight guys, my point was that Zamasu's Immortality allow him to survive any blows and injuries he takes. No matter how outmatched he is. This applies to Fused Zamasu too (Probably ? idk, i'm not defending Black's arc plot as a whole, it really makes no sense).
In fairness I don't think that's how that works, since Mr Satan is a fly compared to Goku at that point, where as Zamasu is a competent God Ki wielding Master Martial Artist! I just chock it up to Zamasu as clearly shown, degrading over time as he let his guard down with each hit, having compromised healing fusing with a mortal, and being a psychological wreck! But even if I can handwave the Father-Son Galick Gun as a cool move, on the logic that Zamasu was using a fraction of his power and toying with them, the 2nd beam struggle with Goku shouldn't have happened! Not at least without establishing that Zamasu was in shock and weakened from taking his own blast, and not without Goku at least doing something crazy like verbally screaming out a Kaioken x20!
Greenjey
Again, huge plot hole there. Vegeta was stomping black when they returned from the hyperbolic time chamber. If fused Zamasu was even weaker than Black, then there’s no way he could have taken on both Goku and Vegeta at the same time. And don’t even get me started on Vegito.
The problem is that Trunks was fighting both Goku Black and Zamasu and still keeping up, and if Fused Zamasu is weaker (or only a bit stronger) than SSR Goku Black, then why he was keeping up against Vegito in super saiyan blue??
Im don't dislike the series or the characters (I love Goku Black) but it is a fact that the absurd power levels that Super has is one of his main problems
It making sense for Zamasu doesnt save the TRunks vs Black being stupid still. The scale of nonsense is tipped HEAVILY in the Trunks vs Black nonsense favor by a large sum. And this is before the rage boost.
Future zamasu was atleast Ssb level u genius
Due to his immortality he couldn't gain zenkai boost lile black and the other saiyans throughout the arc but he was still able hold his own or tag them even though he was continuesly letting his guard down. Fused Zamasu combines both aspects of black and zamasu, since he is immortal and has the infinite ability to increase in strength plus the fact that he is a true deity which makes his potential higher than any other saiyan
"oh look guys zamasu's still alive, better throw the whole universe away"
“Don’t just kill him and leave the rest of the universe alive”
@@greenrockgirl5150 yeah, Zeno's stronger than the super dragon balls, in theory, so why couldn't he just erase Zamasu?
Zamasu basically.. became the universe.
@@sujunma THAT MAKES NO SENSE
@@sujunma "I'm the Light Bringer! I'M THE FUCKING UNIVERSE!"
- Lucifer, Alone in the Dark (2008)
I thought the Trunks/Gohan ice cream was actually touching. Trunks came to terms with the timeline differences as they relate to Gohan. Future Gohan was a wounded, battle-hardened mentor figure who died and gave Trunks all of his initial strength, while the main story's Gohan had the privilege of saving his world from the Androids/Cell. Trunks is almost endearingly disappointed in a strange ambivalent way because of this. Interesting dynamic in my opinion.
Yeah, I don't get why he has a problem with that episode. It serves to contrast Trunks timeline with the regular one, has him come to terms with how different environments led to people becoming different and that is not a bad a thing.
Also the part where he imagines what a peaceful world where he can just enjoy a dinner with his mom and Mai is just heartbreaking.
This entire arc is basically "being Future Trunks is suffering" and this episode encapsulates that perfectly.
He long since had time to come to terms with the 2 Gohans being different. However, I'm surprised Trunks isn't more disappointed in Gohan, since that dude became strong and squandered it.
@@InfernosReaper Because Gohan has a normal life that he didn't get to live in future trunks timeline . Trunks most probably feels happy for him .
@@InfernosReaper Trunks is happy cause gohan isn’t forced to fight and train like future gohan, both gohan’s never liked fighting they only fought to protect so seeing a peaceful gohan that doesn’t have to fight is nice, a type of life trunks always wanted, even for his late master
@@dolphwang5063 " they only fought to protect"
Hard to do that when you slack off on training and hope someone else will save you. How many times does Gohan need to be taught that he needs to be ready for when someone else isn't around to bail him out?
I remember when 47 dropped people thought black was somehow the future goten. Good times
It be like that sometimes... probably would've been better
@@shirahoshi8406 time travel
Ah yes, future goten, the child that was never conceived because goku died from a heart virus before the androids who killed chichi showed up. Very 5head theory 🤣
@@simplyskrypt3914 wait what? Gohan was born before The Heart Virus
@@vergil_6707 Goten not Gohan. Goten was born after Gohan killed Cell, where in other timelines Goku died before the Androids even existed.
The best part of the whole “Goku never kissed ChiChi” thing is that in the Android saga they literally kiss on screen after he wakes up.
But here's the question
Was it filler?
No idea tbh.
Even if it is though I still don’t buy it. They would have had to at least have kissed at the wedding etc.
That's dub only, and the sub version never had that.
oh my god, that is fucking perfect.
@@kurozunakabuto9682 It's technically a filler scene because that particular shot was not in any of the panels of the manga. It's in volume 15
Not only did the ending made completely no sense (personally I found it depressing for all the reasons already mentioned in the video) but we never got a chance to see Trunk's future not even a glance like it happened in DBZ. Episode 68 was a slap to the face when Beerus destroyed both the mineral that Bulma needed and the time machine to go to Trunk's future to see him again. Basically Toei animation is telling us "F you, Beerus destroyed any hope of y'all seeing Trunks again so forget about him and Mai". Is unbelievable the amount of people stating that this arc is the best arc of the Dragon Ball franchise, if it wasn't for the great animation quality during the battles I'm sure it wouldn't be praise so much as it is now. This could've been a masterpiece but they just F' it up...
Zamasu's tea clearing up when his resolve to eradicate mortals is solidifed was such a great detail.
It’s impossible to have a Goku Black video without the Black Y’all song.
It's true, it's the only way I can have a Goku Black.
If that song would’ve played throughout the arc all sins would be forgiven and the arc would be a 10/10
lmao
Hah! nice
One thing I do appreciate a little bit is that in the manga, Goku doesn't forget the seal for the Mafuba, but instead gets it mixed up with a coupon. The mistake's a bit more believable and honestly might not have even been Goku's fault, considering Roshi doesn't seem to take much care for his possessions and might've just given Goku the wrong slip of paper by mistake
Still better than the anime.
I've just rewatched most of DBS (without fillers) for the first time since it's initial run. Those who claim that "Goku was always dumb" need to re-watch Dragonball & DBS to see that Goku has become DUMBER than a child. First forgets the zenzu beans, AND then the mafuba seal, less than 10 episodes apart?! Come on, Toei & co... :(
@@Metalton95 exactly. Goku has never been a genius, but he's definitely not so ignorant and stupid to undermine the severity of a dire situation by forgetting THE ONE THING that was supposed to give them a chance of winning.
i remeber roshi giving him in a coupon in anime i swear it happend
I think it’s kinda stupid even if it’s a plausible mistake, what’s the point of Goku spending all that time learning of it if he doesn’t even bring the tools for it to work. I would’ve rather the plan just fails than for it to be a mistake that was made before the fight even started
At least we got that Tea Sipping Meme out of this arc.
Yeah from the version of the arc that's a actually decent
Graalock And the whole « This pain will only make me stronger » quote that Goku Black said.
" *Subarashi* "
I'm sipping tea in yo hood
The ending was truly awful, but what really got me is had they thought about it there's already a timeline where Trunks doesn't exist. The timeline where Cell killed him. Presumably Buu would still be dormant but that would be easily resolved, and both Trunks and that timeline's Bulma would be able to be reunited with a version of each other. Mai might still exist but it's still a hell of a lot better than what they went with.
Yeah, there's no Androids in that timeline due to the remote and Cell fucked off as well. Would've been the easiest spot to insert them. You could just handwave some bullshit about Mai conveniently also dying in that timeline.
@@PrinceVegita1 the time machines have preset coordinates yes, but the time machine used in this arc by the gang to get to FT's timeline IS the one Cell used, so they could have easily made it save that relative timeline as a go to at the end
well, they have the exact same machine that came from that timeline that they were using in this arc. they could use that.
@@PrinceVegita1 the arc makes no sense 🤪
Honestly, that would have been so much better. Just have Whis offhandedly say that the Mai of that timeline was a casualty of the androids or Cell and you can even avoid the two Mais thing and it would be fine. You can even, if you really want to, have Trunks then face off against that universe's version of Zamasu like he did with his androids.
A bigger question is: why was the Spirit Bomb that powerful when there wasn't a lot of people that was giving energy to it (yes ik Goku and Vegeta was there but they were weakened)
This
It took all the energie in the universe to beat kid buu, and you're telling me that a midget bomb fueled by handful of people was powerful enough to slice an immortal bieng who's more or less equal to ssb Vegito? This makes no sense.
@@Jack-tc5tw just from Earth actually
That's why he even referenced the manga here, none of that BS happened in the manga
@@sjneow the manga STILL had a bullshit ending if I recall correctly
Your reviews on this show is EVERYTHING I needed to hear. Thank you for voicing our frustrations while being so understanding to the animators! I really appreciate you putting the blame on Toei and their marketing obsession
Sean Schemmel screaming in the dub when goku finds out his family died is one if my favorite moments of voice acting ever.
I knew I hated the end of that arc, but wow I never realized how messy it was as a whole. Ugh.
Facts I never knew how good but not that good the arc was 🤦🏾♂️
I knew it wasn't good, I hated this arc, Goku Black had the biggest asspulls I've seen for a villain yet everyone will eat that shit up cause "Ah it's evil Goku, he's so cool Oh my god!", stuff like this makes really question the Dragon Ball fanbase.
Manga honestly did a better job powerscaling wise.
"He claims this will fix all the timeline"
Plague of gripes would like to have a conversation.
He would if he wasng silenced for telling the truff
@@SaintMaxxi what truth was he telling?
@@arhangeo that the timeline explanation in Super is bull. If you think about it like Mark mentioned there would be no conflict as the timeline would not exist. The video has been taken down.
@@deet917 wait what was the name of the video? i didn't even know about this
@@SaintMaxxi Found it!
ruclips.net/video/AKESIqnsC2U/видео.html
This is one of those arcs that could have done amazing in a different time or with different motives. A god that becomes evil showing that they have flaws and expands on the fighting strength they have/ goku black showing off the inherent power the body of a Saiyan has allowing him to be more powerful than his immortal counter part. Trunks reuniting with vegeta. Trunks having a love interest to show he grew up. Goku demonstrating that he is serious and doing something drastic when thinking of his family getting killed. There are so Amy easy fixes and ways to tie these great possibilities together if they had simply just written the story before hand and not based it off of marketing desires etc.
*Sees Goku Black's ki-blade become a scythe*
In my head: "THIS PAIN WILL MAKE ME STRONGER!"
Boomer I HOPE YOUR READY
Is it me or at the end of his level 3 does he say "sucka"?
16:08 "TASTE MY BLADE!"
@@mikeferrer2342 in my game, he always misses
"BEHOLD THE POWER OF A GOD"
Y’know, Dragon Ball’s symbolism is off the charts. I mean, having the evil version of the main character wear BLACK clothes is pure genius. Wow.
Is that sarcasm?
@@peachywe4310 absolutely
like how is just wearing black good symbolism for being evil? 😒
@@shade08538 I had a feel long. No way he was being serious. However you never know on the internet
@@shade08538 then what should have they done
I get its sarcasm but do you really think there was supposed to be some symbolism here? Pretty sure they (the future Z fighters) just named him that because of his clothing choice. What else would they have called him? Lmao.
I still wish Trunks stayed in the regular timeline so that way he could’ve been apart of the TOP. Would’ve gave the whole universe dying an actual purpose.
It still kinda does in a "I'm still not sure if it's actually canon" sort of way.
It can be kinda implied that it was after this in the new universe he was sent to, that Trunks meet the Supreme Kai of Time. It however doesn't explain what happens to Mai....so I don't know. I'll admit I'm grasping at straws here.
@Blizzard Flame Because it actually gives a reason for the arc to exist: Trunks in the Tournament. Its kinda the same deal with the ToP validating RoF.
@Blizzard Flame it would give the writers a plausible excuse why they allowed Trunks timeline to be erased. So that he had no other choice but to remain in the present and help save the Z Fighters' universe since he failed to save his own. It's like, "we really want Trunks to be in the ToP but in a way that makes sense. Oh why not have his future completely gone!" Instead of sending him to another timeline, which just makes the entire goku black arc seem pointless
Better option imo. Send Trunks and Mai to the timeline Cell came from, since presumably that timeline had no Buu or Goku Black, it lacks a Trunks, and Bulma is still alive. They could even give some explanation for there not being a Mai in that timeline, or have the one from Trunks timeline die at some point.
@@wolf10alpha68
Characters that existed will still exist in that timeline. He'll have to once again kill Babadi and Dabura since that time's Trunks was unable to but since Goku Black was already outside that timeline from the get go.....he won't have to worry about that again.
Mai would naturally exist in that timeline but it would be a simple matter to either kill her off (as one of the off-screen victims to Cell prior to him killing Trunks) or since Goku Black incident will never happen make it so that the two Mai never meet.
Other than those, that suggestion works great. Personally though, the two deserve a timeline that's not coming back from the brink of destruction....just not the way the anime went about it.
You were saying that the final episode of the arc is pointless because of the ending
But it's even worse
It makes *all* of Future Trunks' story retroactively pointless. Remember Episode of Trunks? Well they all die. Remember the Trunks epilogue? Well they all die. Remember when Trunks went back to fix his timelines hopeless future by saving Goku? Well his timeline and everyone in it dies.
Damn Trunks life is depressing asf and pointless.
My man trunks can’t catch a fucking break like it’s honestly sad
Not if you don't think of Super as canon
@@elcroccante3112 Super is Canon, Toriyama is working on it by providing both the manga and anime with plot points... That's common knowledge
@@legacytag of course I know it's canon, but have you ever heard of headcanon? When fans don't like how the rest of a story plays out they delete it from their mind. For me Dragon Ball ended with Z, Game of Thrones never went past season 3 and Naruto never had a War Arc.
Super Goku in a nutshell
"Hey so like ya know about that dbz abridged thing? Ya know how they made Goku more dimwitted and funny? Well let's do that, but worse!"
Ugh, I hate that so much
Actually super Goku is the same Goku from the original dragon ball.
In DBZ dubbed version they made Goku like a hero which he isn't
@@567643tome I watched Kai and surprise, he's not retarded. No one's claiming Goku's superman but he's not whatever Toei thinks he is. Hell, he's more tolerable in the Super manga
@@bipstymcbipste5641 I always liked to think that the Kai version of dbz is the canon version (Specifically for the dub) Since it's way more accurate to the original story
@@heroomori3819 Yeah, that's what it's supposed to be. Even DBZA Goku isn't as frustratingly stupid as Super's
10/10 arc rating for:
"HOLD YOUR FIRE! THIS MAN ISN'T BLACK!!!"
Fourth Horsemen Death 😂😂😂😂
Fourth Horsemen Death why?
@@massdagod because he's not black
It’s mot even that funny y’all just think the intertwined accidentally racist remark was funny. A bunch of weirdos
*W H A T*
The only thing notable from the filler at the beginning was that it had Funimation Dub Vegeta vs Ocean Dub Vegeta
Yeah, brought back a major blast of nostalgia for me hearing Ocean Vegeta.
I always just assumed Vegeto unfused inside Buu because of Buu's weird magic body and anything goes with him. And Super doesn't retcon something that was never 100% stated, it just gave it a reason to happen, but I think they could pulled some cool stuff of Vegeto trying to unfuse if it had been permanent.
Exactly
"I'm kissing goku black because I have to" Amazing. So who's coercing you? Certainly not me... with this gun... aimed at your head...
"Vegetto's supposed to wear a combination of clothes"
It's really amusing how that works, considering all Vegettos so far have worn Goku's top clothing and Vegeta's "underwear" suit only being used on their *specifically made for marketing* one, minus the one using DBSuper stuff. And then there's Kefla.
Vegito*
@@driplegacy5338 Nah OP is right as well. that's how it is spelled out with Japanese characters in English spelling.
@@SrMissileMonkey That's crazy.
TomaHawk PWPT why do some games and stuff spell it as “vegito”?
@@SpoonyBard-mx1ve easier to spell in English.
24:24 Ayyyyyyyyy
Nice xD
Oh no.
@@osla7863 Mi..i
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Marketing.
I think the best way to sum up this arc is “PLOT ARMOR”
Akira's favourite part of his dragon ball story:plot armor
Yea why did dragon ball even exist
(Dragon ball super)
*Cough* everyone dies at the end *cough*
333 👍
He talks about how power scaling is important in this arc, wow can’t wait to see what he says about the power scaling in the top arc and califla and kale
Adrian Aguilar
Agreed
I second that.
Oof, that was a doozy
Lol the tournament of power review is gonna be savage
Tbf, the scaling isn't as bad in the ToP since there are LOGICAL (as opposed to the Goku Black arc) reasons why a character might be holding back and why two characters normally on different levels might seemingly fight on the same. That reason is to prevent accidentally killing someone. It's pretty stupid that Goku goes Blue every time he is testing one of his teammates despite obvious power gaps, but but at least we know he can suppress his base power and therefore the multiplier would not boost him nearly as much.
As for Kale, Caulifla, and Kefla their real problem is how easily they power up and less so the scaling on display. We don't know Berserk's actual multiplier/strength boost, so being able to tank a Blue Kamehameha the first time we see it is fine. What's more is that this form's power is also on display in the Broly movie, which stays relatively consistent to that of the anime (assuming his base power is greater then Kale's). Likewise, Kefla's significant power boost is not nearly as bad as made out to be. Why? Because it actually follows the ridiculous exponential boost that occurred in the Buu arc with Vegito. Remember Vegito toyed with Buu, a Buu stronger then both SSJ3 and Ultimate Gohan. And this was a Vegito in SSJ1. Just look at this scaling:
SSJ1 Vegito > > > > Buuhan > Tenkshan > Ultimate Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku > SSJ2 Vegeta
That's a ridiclous boost if I've ever seen one. If Vegito were SSJ3 it would be unimaginable, and Kefla had the power of a Berserk blue tanking monstrocity all while being SSJ2. So i am fine wit this. If anything, the putrid boost in the Goku Black arc is the problem not the one in the ToP.
Man they really did Future Trunks so dirty in this ark
15:12 I read somewhere that there’s actually a mistranslation.
I read that what he means is how can he give Mai a senzu mouth-to-mouth, vegeta misunderstood and thought goku meant kissing, and goku then DENIES because he’s never given someone a senzu mouth-to-mouth so they continue the misunderstanding...
Goku has kissed Chi-chi in filler back in Z and Im sure they’re aware but they just mess the entire script up.
So basically, a not so idiotic yet still a dumbass goku
This actually makes sense. I always thought that scene was just Goku being a dumbass but it was just a joke about Goku and Vegeta misunderstanding each other. I still think it's a badly written scene because so many are confused by it
now I can sleep peacefully.. wait WHAAA
That makes a lot of sense and would be very clever if it actually happened.
Finally someone that understands
I really liked Trunks catching up with Gohan, his entire character is so heavily tied to Gohan that it'd have been weird to go the whole arc without them interacting.
I'd love to see a "re-write" of this arc like your Majin Buu video. Anybody else?
Actually Challenger that’s actually a really good idea. Similar to the Buu Arcs, this has good concepts, but was trash at executing a lot of them. Get this comment upvoted!
How about extending the fight between the fusions, using moves from the manga?
Father and son Garlick Ho struggling better against Zamasu's holy wrath and full power kamehameha finalizing the first "hit very hard" on fused Zamasu.
Goku and Vegeta fusing before eat the senzu bean and the last one being used by Goku to perform the Genki Dama. The "never kiss" gets a hakai, so as the "better friend promise" (It's kinda useless, even being cute and make me less mad with the final).
All things forgotten by Goku would be remebered, however, Goku stills leaves the seal, but in the time machine, so Bulma have to recover while Trunks and Mai are dealing with Zamasu, but she doesn't make it fast enough and this is how the trap fails.
After Trunks defeat Zamasu using the Genki Dama (because Zamasu can defend himself from that) as a sword, instead of Infinite Zamasu, the imortal part begins to recover AND THEN they can use Mafuba properly, with Goku leaving the pot in the Mount Paozu house or New Namek (maybe this one isn't a good idea because of Moro)
Trunks and Mai (optional) only returns to leave the present crew, the ending scene still remains, it's nice and I like how present Gohan reminds future Gohan in Trunks eyes.
Also, those "trying be badass" interactions between kid Trunks and Mai? HAKAI
@@zerostars7499 Thank you! And I really agree, good ideas but poor execution. For example I actually really like Trunks's spirit sword thing and him being the one to finish off Zamasu, so why not have hints of him learning the Spirit Bomb when he's training with Goku and Vegeta the first time?
@@sandstorm2384 Those are actually great ideas. In particular I feel like instead of forgetting the senzu and the seal, why not just have the seal not be strong enough? Zamasu is a god, he can probably bust outta that no worries
You'd have to rewrite the arcs before it first.
15:02
Just as reminder, Goku read erotic novels every day as part of Roshi's training
Yea in my mind stupid Goku is not cannon
@@Zimran03 Super isn't cannon to me. I still watch it though but DB ended with Vol.42
@@Konsti1905 yup, I also see it like that, it's like the last season of game of thrones, it doesn't exist
@@Alexis_Customs what last season?
@@Alexis_Customs common even though there was some few problems with the Stannis arc ending, sansa being sold off to Ramsey and the dorne arc the last season of game of thrones good just wish they continued it on from Jon's death
So this is the vid you were scared to post.
Yup I've been waiting forever for this.
This guy sucks at essays or whatever the hell this is
Martin Strong yes he is but I still like his content
@@martinstrong4639 I'll try harder to improve :)
The Goku Black one is the most controversial one so...
The first part of this arc was so goddamn powerful and I absolutely loved it. Goku Black was intimidating as fuck and it was amazing. And while i still really like this Arc, it really dropped the ball towards the end. I like the idea of an ending where the heroes win but lose but yeah you need a good reason for that to happen.
Mark: I will do anything to stall this video!”
“Would you kiss Goku Black?”
Mark:
Trunks: hold your fire ! This man ISNT black
Solder: *w u t*
Greatest “BRUH moment” in anime lol
Best sean to take out of context
Juan Meza I can’t believe the dub team thought “yeah this is good”
Bro I forgot that line was in this arc, I'm dying laughing right now.
american conglomerate dub...
nothing wrong here
It would be cool if we saw a video of Mark's rewritten version of the arc, much like he did in the Buu saga.
I like how the anime explores the setting and the characters, but I like how the manga explains the mechanics behind what's happening
I feel like Trunks seeing what his mentor Gohan has become was a good part and necessary for future episodes when Gohan realizes FTrunks was disappointed in what Gohan has become. helped with motivation for Gohan to become a fighter again.
Also everyone that was in heaven got erased. Good bye future Gohan.
Diego Alvarenga uh I didn’t think about this wtf
.
It would have cost you nothing.
To not say that
I hate this arc
God I hate Dragon Ball Super
@@therealmalik1119Same but there are parts of it I like
Dragon ball super;
the manga: ok lets have trunks be able to hold off zamasu but not be anywhere near goku black in power.
the anime: he you know what would be cool!?!?!?! (it wasn't as cool as they thought)
preston morawski
Yee
anime came first though
Yeah, but the manga made Trunks completely irrelevant and lobotomised Goku Black.
the concept of "great idea, terrible execution" fits this arc to a tee
No, they did it amazingly, it's just that the story board always fecking changes like add this add that type of scenario.
@@HullsColby ...which proves that the execution was terrible lol
@@webbiefade14 no it isn't, the concept keeps changing but the execution isn't, which means they executed the bullshit concept and demands of their client amazingly.
@@HullsColby lol okay so you think the concept was terrible instead? That's fair lol. But still the execution of those terrible concepts were subpar, why? Because Toei had different staff members coming in and adding their own pieces to the story, which explains why the structure of the arc seemed so shitty. Ex: One day the Toei staff wrote Vegeta to be stronger than Goku after training in the HTC while Goku practiced the mafuba, and the next day a different set of staff wrote Goku to suddenly be stronger with no explanation and overpower merged Zamasu when wasn't even stronger than Goku Black himself.
@@webbiefade14 And that's exactly why they did the execution amazingly, out of all the bullshit the executives are doing the directing management makes sure to make it entertaining. There's no deeper science behind this or outside or third party influence to it, they just did a great job at executing it.
The one thing that bothers me the most about this arc and specifically Vegito is the missed opportunity for foreshadowing. Earlier in the arc, Supreme Kai was shown to be unfused because of a wish made on the dragon balls. When the arc was first airing, I thought this decision was going to foreshadow Goku and Vegeta or someone else fusing to defeat the main villain, then worrying that they're going to be stuck fused forever before Supreme Kai or someone reminds them that you can just use the dragon balls. Instead of that happening, they just introduced a time limit to fusion between mortals and the decision to unfuse Supreme Kai had no consequence on the narrative at all.
They could also have wished for zamasu and black to unfuse i guess
@@justbny9278 Zamasu said, “AHAHAHAHAHA, we then used the dragon balls ... TO DESTROY THE DRAGON BALLS. Its a well thought plan.”
@@jaciellll5390 Speaking of Thanos, Zamasu ends up gone, reduced to atoms, thanks to Beerus.
Future Trunks: “Black killed my mom right in front of me”
Goku: “yeah, yeah but how strong is he”
Black: “I killed your wife and son”
Goku: “YOU’RE GONNA PAYYY *random inexplicable rage boost*”
I don't remember Goku getting angry at the androids for killing his son in the future...or everyone else, for that matter.
To be fair he described it in detail taunting Goku as he had him stabbed against the wall. Also Super Goku being Super Goku probably didn't process Bulma dying as Bulma really dying.
Wolfgod 64 it wouldn’t make sense for him to get mad at the androids, him getting mad is slightly different. Black is actually the person who killed him, his wife, and kids in that timeline. The androids he was exposed to were from his present timeline, where they didn’t kill anyone
Didn't Toriyama famously say that Goku is incapable of love and only cares about fighting? That was totally out of character for Goku.
@@williamrichter1113 That's a good point, but he also didn't hate the Androids for killing Krillin in the future, someone we KNOW he flips out over the death of. Same with Buu come to think of it. I think with Goku it is very "in the moment".
Beerus’ bow for Zeno straight into the table always makes me irl rofl EVERY TIME.
I hated how the power of the different forms are wildly inconsistent. At times, super saiyan blue looks and feels weaker than just their super saiyan forms.
Imagine if Zamasu took over Gohan's body, that would be way more emotional watching Trunks' greatest challenge be the same man who trained him and whose death he avenged.
Shame that Toriyama didn't think of it which would require to focus on a character for more than 5 seconds that isn't Goku or Vegeta.
@@stefanradebach2889 It's a shame that we will never get to see Gohan and Future Gohan meet (Also it's really stupid that Future Trunks never went to new namek and revived everyone in his timeline)
DevDog Productions tbh though the explanation for why would be too much effort for modern Toriyama/Toei. They’re genuinely lazy
@@jinxluvver3909 I know, and I wouldn't be surprised if people think that laziness is why Gohan got nerfed to the point where he can barely go super saiyan, Goku is even more of a moron then he was, Future Trunks got screwed over at the end of the Goku Black Arc and why it's basically The Goku and Vegeta Show.
Imagine if Gohan went to the future accidentally now that would have been an awesome arc I bet geets would be proud of Gohan
Did he just use the "I'm Black, Y'all" song? Whoever his editor is, give him a cookie.
That's how it was in the original movie
"I'm black"
"I'm black"
"I'm blickity"
"Blacker than black"
Now that I'm looking back at the Goku Black Arc, it actually reminded me of something TFS once said during one of their podcasts about the Universe Survival Arc. I think it was Kaiser or Takahata who summarized that particular arc as "a series of incredible moments surrounded by BS." In hindsight, I think that same quote could sum up the entire series as a whole. So many awesome scenes (including the Spirit Sword and SS Rage) are introduced with hardly any explanation or setup in the anime. And now that we're getting into the Universe Survival Arc, i think it'll be clear that all these problems only get worse.
At the end of the day, I might still favor Super over GT, but in all honesty it doesn't really say much. A turd that has two cherries on top instead of one is still a turd. This arc had so much potential to truly stand out among the rest, and that's honestly what hurts the most.
You sum up all i had to say
It depends on the aspects you're looking at I think. I don't mean this in a "look how shmart I am hur hur" way, but if we took the ethos, pathos, logos approach; the Goku Black arc is all ethos and pathos (ethics and emotion). Pretty much zero logos. If you're die hard on logos, Goku Black is terrible. I am not, at least not with a story about Gods and mortals with which divinity has always existed to answer ethics and emotion. And on both those levels it is perfect.
@@wolfgod6443 No need to worry about making it sound like you're bragging. If it helps you get your point across, go for it. In the end, we're all here to say our piece about the show and move on, hopefully without sparking another internet war. And yeah, I get what you mean. The entire arc definitely had some of its best scenes ride on emotion (like Goku getting mad and, again, the Spirit Sword.) In the end, though, I still can't say the arc was all that good. In terms of DB Super, it might be on par with the Universe Survival Arc To me, though, it still doesn't make it good, especially when comparing it to everything DB has done up to that point. At the very least, the entire arc was OK for me.
@@cicada8981 I guess my only concern would be whether the emotion was justified. Someone getting angry and powering up can happen without reason. I think Trunks and Goku had well written reasoning and backing behind their motivations and decisions (except maybe the end where Trunks isn't nearly sad enough). And Zamasu and Goku Black NEED to be delusional and have no idea what they're doing exactly to work. In other words, they need to be crazy enough to think they're the good guys. If they knew they were selfish, they wouldn't be doing what they're doing.
To me they got that right, and so the logic doesn't matter because it is thought provoking in other ways. However, if it did not hit its mark with you, or you simply desire logic over anything else, that's fine.
I feel that instead of the whole “rage” thing (that doesn’t make sense) trunks received, it would’ve made a lot more sense if the others gave him super sayian god.
He’d have trouble reaching that power again, but at that moment where the “rage” transformation originally happened, it would’ve been PERFECT if trunks achieved god again then, and the transformation would’ve been much more epic.
I respect your opinion, but if you ask me, I think he should get super Saiyan 3. It makes sense because goku showed it to him and it would fit much better when he gets angry because without training he would need to perform the ritual and while that is totally possible, it doesn’t feel as satisfying as seeing him get pushed over the edge. But with ssj god he would have a much easier time fighting
Matthew Carroll that does make a ton of sense actually, I didn’t think of that.
@@workuc5595 Yeah, SSJ3 is something 2 kids casually learned in an afternoon, so Future Trunks would have that down easy... And best of all, that means more products to market.
Either way it would be cool, but yeah I do feel that Super Saiyan 3 would fit better with the rage boost idea.
Or maybe establish that zenkai boosts are still a thing, I always thought thats what was happening, but the anime never just says that outright.
Still my favourite storyline from Super before DBS: Broly.
My biggest issue with this arc is that Goku and Vegeta were put back in their old outfits :/ the new outfits were a good addition and I don't understand why they didn't just keep them in them for the whole series. It's such a small stupid thing but it makes me mad.
Ryan Pawelko yeah I miss there whis gi :(
Yeah I liked the whis giis too It would've been better if they lasted until after the ToP where they would have been battle damaged and by the time super Broly happens they would get back to there old giis.
Goku Black Arc In a Nutshell: One of the best conceptualized Dragon Ball Arcs, had some of the best scenes in the entire series, but had possibly the largest mistake made in the entire series with its ending.
Sadly Vegito has been irelevant since day 1. He never wins anything. The only fusion that ever achived anything was Gogeta. Both in Janemba movie and dbs broly.
Gogeta hasn't really accomplished anything himself so...
Irrelevant? No. He is the only reason the Buu-han was defeated. In Super he defused way too early bc plot needed him to.
Gogeta is an ex machina and vegito is just vegeta with goku's height
Vlad 117 I wholeheartedly agree the fact that vegito just never finished a fight always bothered me but the fact that Gogeta (except GT but for some reason they changed his entire personality to be goofy) has literally always finished a fight before his fusion ran out yea Broly was wished away but that fight was over Gogeta was still fused after that
Myles Gekkouga define Gogeta not accomplishing anything
Mai must have been horrified to see Goku Black, especially since he was destroying the world without his great ape form.
Trunks killing Zamasu with the "sword spirit bomb" and leaving it there would have been fine. Yeah it would have been silly, but at least it would have worked. But nope, they went ahead and made it 100 times worse for NO damn reason. Worst arc ending of the entire franchise.
It makes sense I mean what do you except from a Vegito level literal immortal
Zamasu is immortal. How you leave it at that? It would just be a plot hole where his wish of becoming immortal made to the most powerful set of Dragon Balls wasn't actually fulfilled. I do like that even with his physical body deteriorating due to his poorly thought out fusion with Black, Zamasu itself still can't be destroyed no matter what. I also like how without a body (and probably a mind) just his hatred of mortals and desire for their destruction spreads infinitely, even starting to break into the regular timeline.
That's... Not something you can win against by fighting. And I like that something like that can exist in Dragon Ball.
The part I don't like about the ending is Future Trunks being sent to a new timeline that was created in a really contrived way during the arc. He doesn't share a connection with those people, they aren't HIS people. There's even a Trunks and Mai native to that timeline and that was probably a very awkward meeting. It would make much more sense for Trunks to remain with the present folks he shares a strong connection with already.
It's just a way they can take him out of the picture now that his arc is done, and not only they try to pass it as a happy ending despite it not being a happy situation at all, it also flies in the face of one of the key points of this arc: time travel and messing with alternate dimensions is a terrible idea with wildly unpredictable results.
I would say black arc ending is average
with every show/movie involving time travel comes a great deal of plotholes
@Tarantula On Your Screen but the spirit bomb kills and purifies evil. Which is why Kid Buu dies and gets reborn as Uub. So it should have killed/purified Zamasu and end the Arc perfectly. Doesnt matter if he's "immortal" because he fuses with goku black who is not zamasu in the bodly sense.
"But that's really dumb, but he's so cool, but that's so dumb!"
Symbolism: Very on point and cool-looking!
Graphics: Beautiful and entertaining!
Story: *HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WTF*
Most of super to be completely honest
I think Goku has definitely kissed Chi Chi before, its just that when Vegeta asked "you've never done that before?" Goku thought he was reffering to the baby bird thing, not kissing. Gokus initial reaction was most likely a translation thing.
I hate how every single piece of bad writing in anime/manga is always initially written off as a “translation thing.” Any piece of bad writing MUST be because the translators were incompetent, and not because the writers wrote something badly.
@@jerryborjon He said "most likely." As in, it is a possibility, but not a concrete answer.
@@Hulkzilla0 - That’s true, but I never claimed otherwise.
@demonslayer674”✌️deez nuts” - 🤓
My favorite part of this saga was when Beerus smashed his head against the table while greeting Zeno
I still remember all those "Whose Goku black theory"
Its Goten
That was so fucking retarted how bin the fuck could he be gotten if goten was never born in that timeline
*"IT'S PIKACHU!"*
*"GOD DAMNIT!"*
@@hattorihaso2579 It could've been a branched timeline
Drascon Boy how would goten even get that strong
@@drasconboy6349 no
You were really bringing in the fact that you kissed Goku Black
A fellow pichu main I see
@@tinkerdbfz3505 a fellow pichu main i see
DannythePoor Manfredini A fellow Pichu main I see.
I never realized that everyone literally died and nobody cared xD
They had it coming.