Minorities Debate Colorism, Skin Bleaching and Appropriation | VICE Debates
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 май 2024
- A diverse panel debates the root of colorism and its impact today. From public health to appropriation, from social media to skin bleaching, this across-the-aisle conversation will challenge the way you think about race.
00:00 Intro
01:04 What is Colorism?
11:25 Skin Bleaching
17:44 Experiences of Colorism at Home
23:00 Representation in the Media
25:36 Cultural Appropriation & Social Media
34:06 Dating
38:46 How Do We Move Forward?
Click here to subscribe to VICE: bit.ly/Subscribe-to-VICE
About VICE:
The Definitive Guide To Enlightening Information. From every corner of the planet, our immersive, caustic, ground-breaking and often bizarre stories have changed the way people think about culture, crime, art, parties, fashion, protest, the internet and other subjects that don't even have names yet. Browse the growing library and discover corners of the world you never knew existed. Welcome to VICE.
Connect with VICE:
Check out our full video catalog: bit.ly/VICE-Videos
Videos, daily editorial and more: vice.com
More videos from the VICE network: www. vicevideo
Click here to get the best of VICE daily: bit.ly/1SquZ6v
Like VICE on Facebook: vice
Follow VICE on Twitter: / vice
Follow us on Instagram: / vice
Follow us on TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@vice?lang=en
The VICE RUclips Network:
VICE: / vice
MUNCHIES: / munchies
VICE News: / vicenews
VICELAND: / vicelandtv
Vice Life: / broadly
Noisey: / noisey
Motherboard: / motherboardtv
VICE Sports: / noc
i-D: / idmagazine
Waypoint: / waypointvice 
Развлечения
WATCH NEXT: Conservatives Debate Liberals on the US Education System - ruclips.net/video/2KoRhC6wVsI/видео.html
As my Dad said.
If you can boycott corporations.
The Afro community [the diaspora as a whole], can create positive media an propaganda trends from.
Quality not Quantity.
[for the Afro community to continue generating quantity of current media from music to politics and expecting different results is not productive].
Now on microeconomic level.
Just because you are in the hood or any community for that matter that propagates and clings to disparaging an detrimental representation.
Note to yourself and all like minded individuals; that you as a individual will go against that mindset.
Challenge the norms, do the unexpected, achieve and prosper, show deviance, be unpredictable.
Enlight of how our country that our ancestors fought for and had perseverance in...Enlight of how our country allowed other countries [e.g., Colombia an many more] to sabotage our community, Historically speaking on the Crack Epidemic 1980 to 1990.
Only for Biden and many more politicians on both political parties to champion the 1994 Crime Bill.
A foreseen response from our government enlight of the situation.
Complacency in how our community was easily sabotaged, only to promote the very same gang culture which sabotaged our community, via music an actions is unacceptable.
*We are better people than that; the Afro community is stronger than that* .
Our afro community must create the utopia that is needed.
New Afro media, New cultural trends and values, from music to politics, everything.
And a rebranding of old trends and bad idols promoting negativity is unacceptable.
The community must demonstrate with *Action* , that we are better than and noble, and those stereotypes.
There are no good stereotypes.
Because defining a person in box like is a limited viewpoint of a individual.
That alone is unfortunate for both parties, because humanity is not stagnant; when seen in such narrow perspectives as stereotypes it causes conflicts even within our own.
Which is problem with stereotypes in our community is that it does not represent all of us.
I think it would be good to moderate a group of people who have “made it out the hood” versus “who can’t or choose to stay in the hood” me being a born in that environment where gang activity/hood activities was something I was born in.. I always thought I would never leave my hood in fort wayne, Indiana! I did! I live in Jacksonville, Florida and been here for 10 years and my life has changed drastically because of it and I get judge by peers back home bcuz of it.
These people hate themselves. That's really what I got out of it.
Thank you. I would just like to respectfully point out that VICE has produced multiple videos of this sort (debatish) and there are hardly ever any Latin folks on the panel. America is made of of mostly Hispanics and this panel only had one young woman who hardly spoke. Latinos Mexicans, Ricans, Latin Americans, Central Americans, etc etc are many different shades because Hispanics are a mixture of African, Asian and Caucasian . However we still experience a lot of neglect and colorism, from The American society. Most of American society only focuses on black and white issues in this country but there is more of us in the world than there is black and white folks. I think the Latin perspective will help us on these topics far more. Puerto Ricans seem to be the only Latinos represented in our society and Puerto Ricans are mainly African and white. Personally i would love to see a first generation bilingual latino on these panels. Merry Christmas. lots of love 🎄🫶🏼
How about the BLM hate groups on tiktok criticizing W people and their disdain for W people. Let's talk about that
The real problem is, that by the time you are old enough to understand that what you are experiencing is colorism you have internalized all of the messages that society is trying to communicate to you about skin color.
Not this comment making me tear up 😢
So I can't wear braids because I won't experience discrimination? Interesting.
@@barrelagedsophie You missed the entire point. You can wear braids, no one can stop you, but the fact all you care enough to comment about, was braids, and not others experience of discrimination and hurt is incredibly self-centred and a huge part of the problem.
So true, the inner work becomes lifelong others actively undo it while others will remain in their "preferences" and go about passing down the colorist treatment to the rest of society
That's the worst part
Yes the girl who bleaches her skin is heartbreaking but I applaud her for having the courage to speak about it so publicly.
I know, I cried!😥
She has the "courage" to talk about it because she doesn't really see it as a big deal which is so sad
@@tljnl9175 But I hear now its ok to change your sex because you don't like your body, where do we draw the line and who gets to say?
In the carribean skin bleaching is a big business
Right
I am dark brown and I was strangled. As sore and tender as my neck was you couldn't see any bruises. My white nurse educated me on how that's not uncommon in her brown patients. I was too in shock to be thinking about if I was believed. Later, I am appreciative when I look back.
❤❤❤ sending you love
❤️ God Bless You 🙏
I'm Sorry That Happened To You.
🙏🏼😰🙏🏼❤️
Blessings...❤🕊❤🙏🏼
🤗🤗 hugs to you, I hope you are doing well. ❤
I find it interesting that the two black men, when it pertains to darker skinned women experiencing colorism, they were heavily in the field of it being about self-esteem and "how you respond to colorism". But when it pertains to lighter skinned people experiencing colorism, they seemed to want to prove that reverse colorism exists and show more sympathy to it. And that is why I could just barely take them seriously.
Also, I feel like too much shame was being thrown towards the young lady who skin bleaches when it should have been refocused on the big WHY that caused her views of herself as dark skinned to shrivel. I was glad when the person in the pink dress moved the focal point though.
It was so hard to even listen to what he thinks is logical and he is overly oblivious.
Absolutely this!
18:25 18:25
Well, to be real, anti-light-skinned colorism IS put on the back burner so we can focus on anti-dark-skinned colorism. If you want any of these black youtube dating shows, it's not uncommon for women to reject men for being too light, and it happens for more often than the reverse. Being accused of "acting light skinned" when someone is deemed too emotional...
Being light skinned may not have many economic disadvantages, but for on a day-to-day basis, a light skinned person can feel colorism against him is being under-acknowledged.
Yes, the over simplification and minimization is alarming. It seems like they’ve been classically conditioned and don’t realize.
The woman who skin bleaches came with such a genuine and honest perspective. I found it so incredibly valuable. I don't like her choice to bleach or to sell those products, however I am just so grateful that she shared her experience. She literally was able to be a living example of how privilege works within colorism. She gave a solid voice to the way that dark-skinned women are treated. All of these women are super dope tbh!
Agreed
She's not honest. In fact, she contradicts herself. She cared enough what people thought about her when she was darker shade that she bleached herself. But at the same time she doesn't care what other people think about her bleaching herself.
The fact is that she made a selfish decision to exit her own race and be accepted by Caucasians. Like the other girl said, her action is an expression of internalized self hate
That part
True but she’s trash in other ways. Selling her products that ultimately only damage your skin. It’s disgusting! She has no shame at all in her self hate.
She was being a little disingenuous by comparing her choice to bleach to women wearing makeup. Lol She literally expressed her internalized anti-Blackness several times then tried to guilt ppl into not judging her.
The girl in the turtle necks’ side eye is UNMATCHED 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 she had me dying thru the whole video
Bc she a lil narcissist manipulater
@@DoodieLuquette-hk3lf wow, you could tell all that without meeting her and taking to her? You have a rare talent for sure
@@DoodieLuquette-hk3lf 🤣🤣🤣
Especially when that dude was talking about reverse colorism i was dead 😂
@DoodieLuquette-hk3lf yes because narcissism is when someone doesn't agree with your opinion? alright buddy
The 2 black men need to rewatch this video and notice how their interactions and communication styles vary depending on the skin tone of the woman they are communicating with. The disparity between the respect they give to the lighter skins compared to that of the darker skin is astounding.
🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾 I was just thinking that 😂 the main ones acting as if colorism doesnt exist or more focused on "reverse-colorism"
Dont even want look at them this is crazy
You’re aware that Black Woman are just as much of a colorist than the black man are? In fact black woman are more likely to have a confirmation bias towards people who arnt dark.
THIS IS FALSE I REWATCHED!!!! The incel in the back was harshly disagreeable with EVERYBODY. The dude in the front went the HARDEST on the iranian girl and didn't interrupt the 3 dark skin girls AT ALL
I don't like either of them honestly but the original comment is false and everyone who liked it are probably just brainwashed to hate black men cause what she said isn't even in the video 😅
I want to give the women who bleaches her skin a BIG hug. My heart hurts for her
Literally
The girl that spoke about skin bleaching was so honest and i admire her for that.
Exactly!! She almost made me tear up…Michael Jackson talked about the same thing…he was bullied for having a big nose….he becomes rich…..he gets surgery to feel good. I felt her.
@@stellabrown909 he also broke his nose which was the initial reason for the surgery, had vitiligo, and discoid lupus which was all unfortunately affected his appearance. I can imagine it was damn near impossible to feel confident in his looks being world famous. He was already covering the splotches on his face with makeup to even his tone and lupus fucked up his skin with rashes. The King had it so rough.
Her sincerity with herself is amazing. It's beautiful to have that kind of vulnerability.
Although it broke my heart I admire her courage and yes it is hypocritical to say bleaching is wrong but wearing makeup and weave is different. It's all due to feeling inadequate.
She's a part of the problem. Instead of staying in the community of their own kind that appreciates her, she wants to be accepted by white people so she changes herself extensively and blames society
I wished they would have discussed the differences of how colorism affects men and women. Light skinned women are treated better while light skinned men are typically treated as “weak/soft.” Dark skinned women are mistreated, while dark skinned men are typically seen as “sex symbols.”
Edit: I’m specifically talking about beauty standards in America. Obviously, the conversation isn’t limited only to this point.
Exactly
Colorism absolves the oppressor of racism
“Light skin” black people experience racism all the time, this is dumb to make lighter skin black people affirm their blackness in some way like racism and proximity to whiteness doesn’t impact THE ENTIRE WORLD
Being fetishised is still a form of colorism. Black men do not and cannot benefit from colorism.
Preach!
The biracial women In the white shirt is so self aware and empathetic, I wish more people could be as open as she is.
As a black woman , I would never ever say I’m at the bottom of the barrow. That’s crazy to me.
Do you bleach?
Maybe you aren't looking at the world around you baby. White men, white women, minority men, minority women. That is the order.
I don't think that is what she was saying. I believe what she was saying was that society places black women at the bottom of the barrel, which is true. The book, Faces at the Bottom of the Well, by Derrick Bell really explores how black women are placed at the lowest level in society.
You didnt listen, It's not about you as individual, She clearly meant as groups.
*Barrel
I think a lot of us in the black community are so quick to shame those who bleach their skin, when we really should be shaming the people and system that makes them feel they need to bleach in order to have a better life. They’re obviously hurting, and it doesn’t help when we come in and add to that hurt
She sells bleaching cream. She deserves some shame.
Don’t be shy it’s 2023 or yes put some more
She needed to be called on it, because bleaching her skin is detrimental to her skin. That is the problem of today we don't want to tell people the truth if it hurts their feelings. Hearing truths might hurt at first but will yield fruit if taken
@@enlighten5457 you can call ppl on it but what good would that do. The skin has already been bleached and now they'll feel guilt for it. Plus ppl could say the same for surgery, bbl, tanning the list goes on.
People will always find ways to excuse. When I talk about it ppl say things like "why r you quiet when the white girls tan" or "Give Kim Kardashian the same energy" So I've just learnt to mind my won business.
The black community is one of the biggest contributors to colorism. We have to heal/fix our own issues with colorism & desire for proximity to whiteness before we can ask anyone else to do it. All of this light, mixed or white “preferences” a lot of black men have is really just colorism. Up until the 80’s dark skin black women couldn’t join certain sororities, it was for light skinned women only. BM & BW we’re told not to bring home a gf/bf darker than a brown paper bag until the 70s. Actually some families with most light skinned people still say this to this day. Some HBCU dancing girls would only recruit light skinned girls until the early 90s, light skinned black men were the preference in the black community until the 90s. The closer black women’s skin color, facial features (nose, lips, eye color, etc) & hair texture are to whiteness, the more desirable they’re seen by black men & the more likely they are to be married.
I wish they had more darkskin people on the panel. There are darkskin south Asians, Latinos etc. As well as more darkskinned men. It’s just ironic to have a panel about colorism and the room is filled with lighter skinned individuals.
YAAAS QUEEEN
Maybe it’s the lighting idk
@Lawrence Brown Because colonialism has incorrectly taught that the darker you are, the less value you have. Hence, it would be great to hear from those most affected by it. 🙃
Absolutely! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
JUST WOKE NONSENSE PROPAGANDA
Kelvin made it an extreme point to highlight the fact that the other panelists experiences were internalized and brought forward the fact that reverse colorism exists. In the end his own *experience* was that he doesn’t get chosen for roles bc he’s not dark enough and more importantly that his love interests (white men) don’t see him as desirable bc he’s not a dark skinned man. Kelvin, your personalized biases should not negate the true fact that colorism exists just because you can’t get a job or a boyfriend 😑
Though the young lady bleaching her skin was honest, I felt so sorry for her. To be rejected by others can be hurting enough, but to wholeheartedly reject yourself is heartbreaking.
😊
This is an example of how beneficial it is to be trauma-informed. The woman who bleached her skin was traumatized by racism and colorism. How a person manages to cope with their trauma needs to be handled with compassion. I empathized with her when the others started to criticize what she did (the skin lightening, not the sales). The aspect of her monetizing it changed the focal point, but it still seemed like they got lost that her decision to lighten her skin could have been a trauma-response.
I just can't believe how racist black people are to the point of being racist to their own people. They even have a term for their racism. "Colorism"
!!!!!!!!!!!
What about white people tanning is that self hate as well?
@@Sagefrakrobatik If they live in a predominantly non white area where the institutional power doesn’t belong to them. But usually even then it’s darker skinned people who still bleach.
Due to mixing a lot of places that had more darker skinned people, now have more lighter skinned people. This made everything worse for darker skinned people. Look at Bollywood and how they portray dark-skinned women, *if* they portray them.
Now you could argue non white people also mixed with Europeans, like brown west Asians did with southern Italians for ex.
Due to Anatolian (west Asian) ancestry, southern Italians look different, brown.
Same with Sicilians and North Africans mixing.
But it still turned out bad for the mixed Italians. In Italy for a long time it was the case that the lower you were on the boot (more southern Italian) the lower was your class.
So there is a real issue with that which a lot of people deny.
@@Sagefrakrobatik it is but not in the way you think. For white people, tanning signals that they have free time and take vacations. It’s a form of wealth signaling. They are not trying to appear non white. They are trying to appear wealthy.
As an Asian-American I would've loved to see a darker and lighter skin Asian on this panel. Considering the topic on skin bleaching, me personally I like getting a tan and hoping my skin turns a shade darker. I also know there's a population of Asians who feel the same. But also there's a population of Asians who want to become and enjoy a lighter skin shade. I think that would be very interesting to have
not enough whites on the panel
2:08 iranian on the panel
As an alien reptile, I don't feel my green pigmentation is adequately represented.
@@Bahamuttiamat are you comparing asians to alien reptiles?
Yeah colorism is so worldwide, def lot of Asian countries affected for a long time by it, even before colonialism. I wonder if they wanted to focus more on the black experience of colorism in America? I'm not mad about it (I'm Indian-American) but I thought that was interesting.
Girl with the blonde dreadlocks is so smart, ugh wish I could express myself like her, an eloquent queen ❤🫶🏾
If this is someone you want to be like I feel shy for you
@@magisvita2937 okay…no need to be shady if she’s not your cup of tea. Do you boo. People be mean for no darn reason online 🤦🏾♀️
Yes! I love it
Their pronouns are they/them, im pretty sure they said it in the beginning of the video
Does anyone know their @? SHES AMAZING!!
You would’ve thought the guy with the glasses was the lightest one in the room…
Seriously!
I'm sorry this made me laugh. Really tho wow
ikr?? 🙄
My skin is the same complexion as the young woman in the black jacket and I think our skin is stunning! However just because I’m accepting of my skin doesn’t mean everyone else is and that’s where the issue lies. Telling dark women to love themselves is not the solution. People accepting others for the skin they were born with is the solution.
She’s so gorgeous
I agree, things need to change externally, but at the same time our daughters must love themselves. My daughter has a darker complexion than me. I would hear kids say.... "That's your mum?" It made me feel some kind of way. I never wanted her to feel ashamed or embarrassed because our complexions are different. I never wanted her to feel strange around me in public. Some people are so funny-acting. Every race is beautiful. I may not be attracted to everybody, but beauty is in every person. We don't have to label one race as the most beautiful. God made us all. To do so would mean He made some of us as an afterthought. That would mean God isn't perfect. He is no liar, nor is He imperfect. His definition of beauty is far beyond our limited human and carnal abilities. We cannot fathom how deep Abba Father feels or how He thinks. It's pure love. Humans fall short of pure - non judgemental love every day.
@@beefy45Yes, she is both beautiful and adorable. I loved to hear her share. You see the pain, struggle and beauty in her eyes. She is a force! We'll be seeing more of her, that is for sure.☺️ The young lady who bleached her skin, broke my heart. I get it. I just wish she knew how beautiful she was.....the way God made her. Humans can create safe spaces, as well as toxic ones. It's sad that as a society, we have so many broken spaces and devastated people.
You just need the love of a good lightskin man.
You guys do have beautiful Skin 😍 it's Golden. I tell dark-skinned people all the time that you guys are so lucky!!!! You can Swim in the sun 🌞 all day and nothing will change in your Complexions I love yall Chocolate Complexions 🍫
I think it’s very profound and also an example of how the black community is divided amongst black men and black women. The black men are on the fence about colorism existing and making it into self-esteem issue that people are having, even though a lot of the black rappers and black men in the black community are very colorist. It’s in the music, it is also in the culture. Dark skinned women are shamed and lighter skin and biracial women are elevated. Very interesting to participate and then act as if it does not exist.
Yah and dark skin men like light skin girls more but dark skin girls cry like it ain't another mf man on this earth when it's billions of ppl ok Earth but they to busy having bitterness towards light skin men
These panels are frustrating because they always, always have the same type of Black men. These middle of road negroes that feel if you don't think about racism or colorism it won't touch your life.
How crazy is it, that those same "black" rappers actors, musicians, etcetera are -not- even of the same stock as our people???
It is true, all melanated folks ain't Kinsfolk, and here ours are so incredibly and overwhelmingly negatively influenced by those who are of another different tribe entirely, those almost kinda Negro-looking and yet not of the Negro or so-called 1988 assigned "african-americans" those, who are *sewn amongst the Saints, who look like us, kinda, but who aren't of us? ..
The Negro skull and nose are peculiar unto the Negro only, that greasy bellpepper nose ain't ours that's Moabs and Ammons..
Google says they "disappeared" .. yea, they did when they became us without being us..
All of our government "representatives", socalled civil rights leaders, every puppet idol icon: yep you guessed it- they were M/A.. yep.
So, I call them the greasy bellpepper nose melanated heathen tribes of Moab and Ammon who are masquerading as the Hebrews,
and now even leading them; in all the wrong directions, as an ancient ENEMY would do, right? ..
They must sit back and laugh at the Saints.. they are now micromanagers of the true sons and daughters of Yashara'al, in all lands..
I don't expect them to go running and tell that.
Herein lies the burden of Moab.
It's just too damn bad that so many of us THINK that they are us.. so many of my people are utterly idolatrous.. ugghh..
We think that they are us, like its in the very fabric of their fraudulent construct they've built up around us..
But how could they reallybe us?
The "famous African-Americans" all eat at the table with esau, and all the other confederate heathen nations, but *we don't.. 🤔
They know it exist ma’am because they’re black.
@@SylvesterHannah did you even comprehend her comment? It was very well thought out and precise.
i feel the caramel guy with glasses wanna be light skin so bad but he honestly falls in the middle
Naw he’s definitely light skinned
He is light skinned🤦🏽♂️
@@melchizedeck. He is American
@@lilychoi1312 I mean yeah… I don’t know what you mean though
@@melchizedeck. I was trying to convey that we instinctively segrgate ourselves within our very own community. So I just put American to signify a wide spectrum of people.
I don't comment often...but bald homie with the glasses is really getting under my damn skin!!!!!! Dude...I'm all for everyone having their experiences and opinions validated, however when everyone else spoke their piece he would interrupt, make faces, and literally be ready to pounce instead of him actually ACTIVELY LISTENING!...for you SIR it's clearly not racism nor colorism, it's your attitude-ism...geez la weez he was exhausted 😩
I'm pretty sure you comment often. You probably also struggle with accepting other people's opinions.
My first interaction with colorism was in elementary. The dark skin boys would not want to play with me, then one of them said, you are dark skin, the other girls have pretty hair, her skin is pretty. IN ELEMENTARY!!
Dark skin boys continued to tell me I was ugly long after that.
If black girls stayed away from black boys growing up. Less black girls would have trauma also alot of black boys/men dislike the way they look themselves and make fun of each others appearance..
I’ve experienced something similar. I overheard dark skin guys talking to each other saying they wouldn’t date me cause I was dark skin.. even though I’m technically medium skin tone.
@@mandyxxxlove rejection is protection
And it still continues. Almost every sitcom with a “black” couple, the male is usually darker and the woman is ALWAYS very light or biracial. See eg. “my wife and kids” “the Cosby show “ “Martin” “a different world” “blackish “
@@libfuzzy4629 True. I go where I am loved & appreciated!
Yes when mothers bleach their kids skin it’s absolutely unacceptable!!
I don't agree with mothers bleaching kids skin, When the kids grow up, They should make that decision on their own.
First, where did they find those two uninformed brothas. They are not representative, there are more intelligent and informed brothas out there. I wish my son or daughter could have attended. The young women represented themselves well. I’m a light skin black man and yes, colorism is real.
As a latina I know colorism is a huge problem within my community as well as others I've also experienced racism . Ive also experienced a lot of the issues brought up by the men and women on this panel . The division is the worst part for me. I am brown skin with straight hair .It took me 21 years to realize the soap I grew up on from my country was bleach . It is so normalized in the latin communities to praise lighter skin that it isn't even questioned or talked about .I have struggled with identity over and over . It wasn't till my latest trip to the land I am from I realized who exactly I am and I refuse to allow others to tell me who I am.
The dude in the glasses literally did not listen to anyone. His mind was set and he was NOT changing lol
Yeah bc all of them in that room are narcissist. I wouldn't listen either.
He definitely came with an agenda . I cringes whenever he spoke
Which dude with glasses? The bald one or the one with short hair?
@@DoodieLuquette-hk3lf how?? You can't just throw around personality disorders
@@koyii5445 ain't no just throwing around nun. I'm calling it for what it is and that's character. All of them are narcissist that want validation like lil kids then turn around and manipulate other ppl intentionally...
During this discussion, I could be wrong, but I noticed whenever the young lady in the first row (who has dark skin and medium twists/braids), gave her opinion and tried to provide factual information, she was literally put into a hot seat by the two black men in the group who disagreed with her, almost every time she spoke. Honestly, I felt apprehension for her, but I also noticed that she stood her ground, along with all the other women on the panel. In particular, the gentleman sitting next to her, I'm not sure he recognized that he interrupted her and did not say "excuse me for interrupting you," like he did earlier when addressing a light-skinned woman in the back row. THIS is what she was talking about in terms of how men treat women with darker skin and how men pick their mates, based on the shade of their skin, with some people not realizing that Colorism may be informing their choices.
Exactly, the 2 black men were a downright embarrassment. With the one in the upper right constantly referring to himself as being "light-skinned"...which he is not. The gay men not Hollywood wouldn't see him any differently than a darker-skinned "BBC". Delusional. Him and the other black guy kept diminishing the conversation with their white supremacist-induced gaslighting of everyone else's valid points. You can tell they've grown up their whole lives catering to white people....or being the "BBC" to white/nonblack women and men that they don't actually care about black issues. Ironically, the actual mixed/light skinned black with the red dreads made some great points....and should've been the representative for black men as opposed to the other 2 men in the sunken place.
THANK UOUUU
COME 👏🏾 ON 👏🏾 CASSANDRA! ✅✅✅
Yup he did
u better analyze
The black guy in glasses at the back is such a classic case 😂😂😂 the dark girl would raise a point he frowns and make faces the lighter woman next to her addresses the same thing and points he nodes everytime 🤣🤣🤣
i really wish they brought more darker skin people on this panel, i would’ve liked to hear more from them tbh
A panel with 50% of the participants being dark-skinned & 50% being light-skinned would've provided a more balanced perspective.
They needed a darkskin man and less whites
@@MissOlympia2023 all the whites were just pandering except the Bronx girl
The girl who skin bleaches said she was bullied for being dark which drove her to bleach. Instead of getting mad at her, they should have tried to convince her why she doesn’t need it. In her mind, its a necessary evil and they are just continuing the bullying (in her mind)
Oh yes they were bullying. You could tell from her body language that she was very uncomfortable.
Furthermore, I think she told the most truth about colorism
Why would they convince her she didn't need it when they were bullying her??
Deep
What can they convince her of? She's content with her decision so much so that she's harping on other women's insecurities and selling bleaching products to them so they can "fix" their insecurities (their dark skin) as she did. She said she doesn't care, her mind is made. Clearly, she believes light skin is more beautiful and now that she is receiving better treatment and more affirmations from changing her skin, she won't change her mind or truly be convinced dark skin is just as beautiful or she was beautiful as she was. Nothing they said was bullying they just found it wrong, which it is.
@@jazziskincare9474bc in their eyes the truth is that bleaching brings herself better to whiteness and they don’t like that. They’d rather her take the hate and colorism and racism and just “love herself”
I want to on a way applaud The girl with the skin lighting business bc she became more authentic authentic with her answers. At 1st she kinda tried to hide behind the “I think I look better lighter” then she was like whatever… “Society give light skin privilege so that’s why I bleach” and she stuck with that the rest of the conversation.
Which admitting the truth of the trauma helps to the solution
Agreed
I agree totally
Totally agree. I feel like she gets better as time goes on with her answers
She's light though. To be technical all humans are a shade of brown unless youre albino. What do you think beige is? light brown. Also she is wrong to compare whitening to makeup, totally irrelvant and different. One could say people can alter thmselvves through skincare products since skincare products can make skin "better", but makeup doesnt.
She's light though. To be technical all humans are a shade of brown unless youre albino. What do you think beige is? light brown.
The girl who bleached her skin spoke the most honest about the society we live in. I don’t judge her as she’s the result of the messaging we give to darker skinned people. She gave it straight to us.
Great conversation and a well-spoken panel! Maya, you expressed so much of my sentiments. Thank God for you and your eloquence!
The arrogance in the guy in glasses. Colourism is deep even as far as South Africa…lighter black women are desired more than darker women. Lighter black women are called “yellow bones” and trust me they more privileged
What’s sad is the woman in the black jacket is incredibly beautiful. To be called charcoal…..that’s just messed up. For a person to decide to bleach themself like the girl in pink it makes me angry at society that caused someone to feel like they had to do that.
That was actually the young lady in pink selling bleaching her cream to her people and making a false equivalent that wearing make up are the same.
@@belizegal29 what
'dont' be angry with society, just don't accept that treatment. be willing to be okay with who you are and be proud. Spoken from an African who got enough loving and affirmation from childhood
“The girl in pink”
*looks around, sees 3 girls in pink
“Huh?”
Lol
I applaude this group for an honest well thought out conversation. I can appreciate discussion void of forcing others to adapt to your beliefs but at the same time respect your position. Having conversations like this is how we begin to mend gaps. Well done to all❤
I wish the guy in the upper right with the glasses and beard be quiet!
What triggered you about him?
Loving the mixed girl in the back row for being so intelligent and acknowledging her privilege respectfully while also expressing her struggles. The guy beside her for some reason doesn’t understand what colorism truly is and also that in todays society it absolutely affects women more than men. Although dark men do experience it as well but it is amplified for women.
The reason for this is that dark black men are actually fetishized by many other races. You know that whole BBC mess. It makes it hard for people who have genuinely always preferred darker skin like myself. I don't subscribe to the BBC trope. I just genuinely prefer my brothers a little darker. But most dark-skinned black men don't tend to look at black women like they used to. Too many other options. And dating is an opportunists game for everyone nowadays.
@@susanrichardson631The Most High Provided Instructions But Many Don't Obey Them!
Black darker skin women and lighter skin black men have it the worst with colorism than the reverse.
That same guy speaks of white gay men wanting bark skinned black men. He’s a contrarian! I find him a bit arrogant!
@@amoijoy573 I do agree that he is arrogant but what he's saying in true. In the gay world dark skinned black men are seen as more masculine, alpha with BBC. Lighter skinned or mixed black men are seen as more feminine and less attractive.
The guy riding so hard for light skinned people is barely light skinned lol. That is WILD
Imagine being colorist but you're absolutely comfortable being colorist because dark skin black people see light skinned as less than because "they've had it better". Making them the monoliths y'all swear we aren't. Who's protecting light skinned black voices in these comments other than light skinned people? Is it our fault that white people see your internalized racism and show empathy? This is why we have it better? Just want be 💯 with the rules.
Please be specific in your response. 💜
You're not light skinned just another bitter bm with a chip on its shoulder.
Facts
TK is legit gorgeous! BM never fail at disappointing me… the emotional intelligence was lacking for both of them.
I’m black and mexican. Grew up on the south side of San Antonio all through schooling. Elementary to high school, I’ve probably had like 20-30 black classmates. In my mind, I wasn’t excepted by black people because my personality of growing up in the Mexican community and I wasn’t accepted by Mexicans because of my black features. My parents most likely experienced colorism but they never put me on game until I understood it myself, especially especially after being in the military. Colorism is real and we all have to accept it. Some of us unknowingly lived our lives feeling left out and feeling like the black sheep because we desired the acceptance from communities, people and family. Its effect blinded my self confidence in my own skin all the time, I felt a shade of gray at one point because I didn’t know which “side” to choose or who would accept me. Definitely created a personality disorder.
When the fact is I’m a biracial man, with black and Mexican life experiences. My experiences never had to match either race to be considered accepted. I had to learn that last sentence, if anything my experiences like EVERYONE else’s is unique to them. I always felt pressure to appropriate my blackness or my Mexican heritage to be accepted but I never had to do that. All I ever had to do was to accept myself and be the example for everyone else who grew up in two minorities.
Love ya self first, be unbreakable and then kick the door down to beat the weak ass stereotypes. Leave the ignorant experience in the past, those people ain’t going no where.
Let’s not try to normalize skin bleaching by not calling out how horrible it’s truly is
They were weak on her.
I understand that but why were they not taking the same approach with make up, that’s where I see hypocrisy
@@tafarihinds7164 Makeup can be wiped off. When you bleach your skin you are permanently causing damage to your skin for the sole purpose of lightening it. Those are two completely different things.
@@faiyazedits4910 and most of those bleaching agents cause cancer!
@@faiyazedits4910 if you do it and the safe way omg
I think this conversation highlights how colorism effects women and men differently.
The women on the panel were coming with facts pointing out the harms of colorism either through lived experiences or systemic and societal harm and the men could not gauge or understand why colorism was detrimental. At one point the one gentleman equated his bias experiences as a lighter skin black male to “reverse colorism”.
It feels like colorism is a surface issue for them. Like the women were discussing real life changing impacts and effects of colorism like abuse, desirability etc and then 2 gentlemen were discussing memes. The conversations isn’t weighed the same.
The only gentleman who understood was the beauty guy. It felt like the black man were holding up mantles to support colorism because they discounted its effects and it’s existence, primarily because there lived experience with colorism is different.
I agree completely. I’m a light skin man. And I just posted a comment about not understanding the privilege and you made me see it differently. And to add I want to clarify that I do greatly see the colorism in females with the pressure to be lighter. But I feel with men it’s the opposite almost. And I saw another video where a woman described it in an amazing way. For light skin men it can almost feel like they aren’t dark enough because the darker skin and black male culture promotes more masculinity. Whereas for the females it’s different bc to be darker kind of takes away from femininity. I’m not saying it’s how it should be and that color does actually impact those traits bc they are unrelated entirely. But in society it’s how it’s depicted.
I agree to this 💯
I completely agree!
@@The_King_Kosmobasically, darker skin is seen as more masculine and lighter skin associated more with femininity. Hence, why lighter skinned BM are more likely to be called soft. So (darker) BM somewhat benefit from colorism and therefore don't see it as a big issue. Also, women are generally judged more on outer appearance than men are, so women are more affected by how others view their skin color.
Ma’am.
That’s like saying Black Woman DOG lightskin men more than anybody and then you wanna be woke and call colorist lmfao that feminist mindset is something else.
I would have loved to seethe perspective of a dark-skinned black man added to the panel to see if he would have defended the women about it being systemic issue or sided with the men about it being insecurities
can someone tell me where to find the person in pink (center)? I would like to listen to more of their opinions/thoughts
As a lighter skinned woman I can definitely see the difference in the way I’m treated when I wear braids in my hair versus a weave. Im approached more by all races when I have a straighter weave. It’s almost as though I’m seen as less threatening.
for me, when my hair is curly or braided I find men to be more aggressive sexually and I get harassed more often. When my hair is straight, I get taken serious and feel more respected when I get approached and less sexual comments unless I'm dressed more provacative. (I'm black/white mixed)
That is EXACTLY what it is, in my experience as a white woman from the Midwest, I STILL react reflexively and have a moment of fear when I see black people when I am out and about. It effing sucks. I feel like the worst person in the world about it. We NEED a full spectrum of representation in the media, online, etc.
My parents were very much about equality, so that is not where this feeling came from. I know it is illogical and I am trying to deprogram myself everyday, but still, I receive this messaging every way, in 2023; that black=violent or criminal. It literally is a split second wave that comes over me and I course correct, but we have to admit, and talk about this stuff, if we are going to improve this world.
Maybe you change your behavior when you wear a weave.
Theres nothing wrong about a healthy fear of the 13% of a population that does 50% of the crimes. Its the same way you are more fearful of being alone in an elevator with a man, or being hit on late at night by a man, vs either of tese happening by a woman. @@helianabanes4875
The vulnerability this thread is beautiful and yall are so appreciated 🙏🫂
WHY they didn't ask the girl (don't know her name) who had bleached her skin - just how different her life had become. And REALLY dig deep into that. Everyone else is talking from one vantage point. And yet, here you have someone who can give you two.... smh. Opportunity missed.
That's what I said too.
💯
I think because it’s obvious…the benefits would permeate every aspect of your life…socially and economically
They only had like 3 maybe 4 ppl share their names...no one else did..or at least showed that.
@@sharkonland1104 I totally agree with you, It does change your life, I am happier now than i have been in years.
the guy with the black jacket and glasses had so many valid points. very thought provoking. And the lady who talked about bleaching, when she talked about hypocrisy, I felt that.
Absolutely 👏 "it starts in the home", my dad use to tell me and my siblings just how beautiful our dark skin is. When we use to run around with tights on our heads to imitate long swinging ponytails, he used to tell us to take it off and tell us how beautiful and versatile our hair is!! Love that man RIP
Awww, I used to do that too, I wanted long hair so bad. I love my hair, but the length thing is still touchy
When the young lady, said that she felt like BW were portrayed to be bottom of the barrel, it broke my heart - bc you knew that how she experienced herself in darker skin 😢 Words are a spell.
they are but they’re also part of lived experience - I hate how folks treat folks who bleach - like they’re already telling you where they’re at - that’s not simply internal or a mindset and acting like it is is dangerous! The system is informing the politic - not the other way around!
She’s clearly from Africa, and was treated like that by African born men. They can act atrocious towards the women from their country. The men are very blunt about dating outside their race.
@@kemiaw2709 she sounds caribbean
@@HunnifredBee how isn’t it a mindset this goes back to the Willy lynch..
@@kemiaw2709 are we going to act like white supremacy ain’t influencing the continent??
My goodness the girl in the pink with the braids broke my heart. When somebody says the don’t love what they see in the mirror because of the world has told them about themselves…consciously or subconsciously…..don’t be so quick to point fingers, let’s be quicker to ask questions. She represents for so many black girls and women who would do it in a heartbeat. There so many questions to ask of ourselves as a collective because the damage of colorism is sitting right there.
She was a really interesting guest. Boy do I wish she could speak quickly so she could give more of her opinion and point of view.
It's odd... It sounds like she was saying: Hey, I was a girl and then I was taught it was better to be lighter. I bleached my skin and it was better. I also acknowledge that it is f***'d up, but as long as it's the standard I'm going to keep doing it.
That's fine... It's tragic, but it is also a reasonable response. It falls apart though because it sounds like her next thought was: I now help other women by showing them my path to success.
What!?! Do you sell skin bleach because it allows women access to the system you just said was messed up? Are you in it for the money? I understand money, but it sounds like you think you're helping people into the system you want destroyed. You're literally feeding more gas into the engine.
@gemgirl2000 Yes, some people are being mean, unfair, and not truly listening to her. But also I truly listened to her and I'm scratching my head.
@@john2g1 yeah….I’m not excusing her behavior at all. I’m more prone to ask why than judge her that’s all. Her reasoning is frustrating to hear for sure but…so is white supremacy LBVS.
@@gemgirl2000 Yeah she sure is something... IDK what but it's something.
I wonder what it takes to deprogram that way of thinking and self hate?
@@john2g1…personally to me…starts At adolescence…I’m telling you kids are evil asf…I’m darker skinned and I got bullied soooooooo badly…I wanted to bleach my skin so bad to the point I stole some skin bleaching cream but I was too scared to do that…it was put into my head that I was ugly because of my skin…literally a man(a BLACK MAN) told me verbatim “that’s why I don’t mess with you black b*****, I don’t even like black b***** I only mess with “foreign” women and I only mess with light skinned b*****…” that literally broke my heart…made me feel inferior to lighter women…
@@Kay_patrice I don't doubt it at all I remember my childhood quite well. I also remember the children that fell for dark is bad ideology. Fortunately from what I have seen that kind of thinking is dying out in the US (it seems to be growing in parts of Africa and Asia).
Thinking back, I never had those thoughts to begin with. Then my first crush was a girl in kindergarten a shade darker than you, so that innoculated me from then on. Either way I think puberty would have cured me of any skin color based bias.
What was the catalyst for your change of heart?
I'm in the middle I have brown skin and depending on who I'm around I get categorized as dark or light. My mother and grandmother have very fair skin tones I used to feel out of place being around them as if I didn't belong because I was darker than them. To be honest they used to make me feel bad about myself and would say things like if I had came out any darker I would not have been brought home from the hospital 😢. To be honest this debate unlocked that hidden memory. I literally blocked that from my mind until hearing these experiences.
This was a pretty great conversation for the most part. It's good to see so much intersectional solidarity here. Nice when people see what's up.
The woman who skin bleached I felt bad for her and it was sad that she felt she needed to skin bleach to get the life she desired. However once she said she sold skin bleaching cream that made me angry and she definitely got the side eye from me because she's profiting off of this horrible insecurity of dark skin men and women which only exacerbate the colorism issue. Not even including how dangerous skin bleaching can be and how you can't reverse it.
Kinda like how people make profits from women hating themselves and thinking they are ugly without makeup. There are many beauty things that are harmful for your skin but it's promoted because women wanna be beautiful. There are many predatory practices in makeup but skin bleaching is worse becuase being lighter skin is better?
Maybe you don't support makeup but the woman's point was if you do support make and not skin bleaching you a hypocrite becuase they both have disgusting implications when you did deep
Maybe black people should stop lying about oppression, you aren't oppressed anymore. Stop living in a fantasy
@@namename2040 honestly I don’t think makeup and skin bleaching are the same and they don’t have the same side effects. When I put on makeup I can wash it off but when u skin bleach you cannot wash that off. Skin bleaching can lead to kidney failure, lung damage, skin cancer etc and makeup typically doesn’t cause that kind of damage as makeup tends to be more regulated then skin bleaching products. Just like skin bleaching is bad I also think going into tanning beds are bad because of the health risks. I also think it’s sad if people use makeup to lighten themselves but I don’t think makeup and skin bleaching are the same thing and I don’t think that makes me a hypocrite. And also why do women have to feel ugly to want to wear makeup. I’m fine with and without wearing makeup and most women are and a lot of women see it as an art form and use it for fun so yes are some women insecure and need makeup to feel better about themselves yes but it’s not the majority. And there are many industries that also profit off of men’s insecurities as well.
@@itzallaboutadalia I would greatly disagree that it's not the majority. Especially when it's pushed at such a young age for females. Women who don't wear makeup get judged and thought lesser than for makeup. There are many women who get self conscious when seen without makeup believing it to be their face. Makeup companies don't make their money from people who just do it for fun. They make their money from the many insecure women.
Also makeup also can many negative effects like cancer for one especially if you use you consistently and you know believe it to be your face and can't live without it. Clogging up pores, make you age harder possibly leading you into botox which is another can of worms.
Personally I don't like makeup due to the insecurities it cause. I also don't think people look good with it. However I'm not against it either simply because people exist who enjoy. I basically feel the same about the skin bleaching and tanning. There are people who do them for fun. Humans are weird.
I can only imagine what she says about darkskin women.
As a black person I've NEVER experienced colorism from a non black person. A matter of fact I've had whites even compliment me on my skin tone. The only colorism I've experienced is sadly from other black ppl. So to say society discriminates, no I would say your OWN race does the most discriminating in my experience.
Facts
Thank you!
Not surprised, blacks are obsessed with skin tone and hair especially the men that’s why so many of y’all’s women are trying to look mixed like us
Black isn't a race, it's a skin color. Africa is the most genetically diverse continent on Earth. Neither is white.
@@thraxxxsd black and white are races…there is no gene for race…
Race is a social construct…so while genetic haplogroups are linked to countries, there is no link to haplogroups being black, white or other. They are two separate things that your dangerously conflating.
That's an incredible content you're putting on internet. Thank you so much!
Great conversation. We need more of it.
Colorism is definitely a real thing BUT to hear the lady in the pink ACCEPT it as a power that can't be beaten is truly depressing. Not only does she accept it, but she decided to also help promote it and capitalize on it with her skin bleaching business.
Yea like wtf
The girl in pink that sells the lightening product was the most honest one on the panel.
Thats the newest popular mindset. Absolute victim mentality. So pathetic.
@@bobbyrandomguy1489 I think you missed what was said. I believe what the original post was trying to address is how the young lady in the corner (because there were a few other women wearing pink) took her insecurities, tried to fix them with bleaching and is now capitalizing off of other’s insecurities.
@@allen3339 Fair enough. I watched about a total of a minute. My comment was probably not appropriate or accurate. But 1 minute in someone said they "identify" as mixed race or whatever so I turned it off. You dont identify with anything lmao. Thats what you are!
It doesn’t sit right with me when at 14:13 the light skinned person speaking, who has VERY likely benefitted from colorism regardless of their personal politics, criticizes the girl who bleaches her skin for wanting to obtain those very some benefits for herself.
Agreed. Seems like she's overcompensating using her hair as an identifier
i mean, hes right.... it is feeding into the cycle. you're basically saying; if I bleach my skin, I get more stuff because I'm more or less a whiter version now. where in fact people should learn to co-exist, be able to see through the colour of someones skin and see their qualities and what they bring to the table.
@@SpiritzOfTheEmpororexactly.
@@SpiritzOfTheEmpororyes it feeds into the cycle, but I also can’t exactly blame someone for trying to fit into the accepted “in group” to get access to the benefits and not struggle so much. Nobody wants or likes to struggle. We all want to find a path of least resistance. If the rules of the game aren’t changing to lift up and support everyone, you are going to see people play the game to get the end goal they want. It’s a no win situation really.
Yes. I thought I was the only person who noticed when he said this.
As soon as dude said white men prefer darker skin men - everything made sense.
My co-worker is much younger than I & often changes up her hairstyle (btw, somewhat lighter complexion) often too. For a while, she wore a straight styled weave & the white males in the office loved it (& expressed same!) A few weeks later, she wore braids & you guessed it - she didn’t get the same attention as before. She is still the same beautiful young lady yet one guy even had the nerve to tell her that he liked her straight hair better.😳
The girl who skin bleached captures the feeling’s of colorism so well😢❤
Tbh she could just spoke. Having to bleach or just the fact that you can bleach says a ton. Tanning is always optional.
@@evirareid1500 your comment literally makes no sense lol what are you even saying lol
@@melaninmonroeeee 😂Facts
@@evirareid1500 yeah, Tanning is the opposite of what she wanted to do. haha
Yes! she looks so sad when she talks about it, I understand what she is going through. I didn't bleach....I chose to lighten my skin, because i was missing out on so many things and being shunned and not liked by so many. I can deal with other races if they don't like dark skin, but it's so hard if your own people don't like you, push you out or leave you out of things, simply because your skin is so dark.....I went to a dermatologist and learned i had alot of skin damage....from the sun, i didnt know that "We" our skin could burn in the sun....and i loved being out in the sun, my whole life, once i was educated on protecting my skin from the sun, My dermatologist introduced skin products that lighten the skin not bleach the skin, So if i ever want to go back to my natural shade, i can do that, You can not go back if you bleach your skin. I am happy with my choice and i know just because you're Black does not mean you have to be Black....... So i do understand her and i know what she went through. It's sad but its true.
When they were talking about dating & relationships, I wish they'd also talked about black men's colourism towards black women. I'm a dark skinned black girl (still in highschool) and I hear discrimination everywhere, in media, at school etc. Even when these men have their podcasts etc. and the "high value men" are only ever with women that aren't black. Many times I feel it subtly as well. Like the woman in braids said, it's always us being called loud, ghetto, not datable, wild, we can't be married, rachet etc. and it's disgusting. Here it's like, a black guy dating a light skinned girl is an achievement. dating a dark skin is okay but if she's super light, he's done it. It's even how all the boys only talk about pretty white girls but it's never a black girl being mentioned. I know that i should just move on and focus on things that actually matter in life but i'm at an age where it does hurt and it does affect me. Even among us girls as well, it's like the"whiter" my hair looks, the more it gets complimented. it's like, where were those compliments when I had my afro out, when I had my twists & cornrows? huh? I try not to build resentment but when I'm being congratulated for getting lighter and being darker is seen as a bad thing, i can't help it. Back to my first statement, black men could & should be held partially responsible for it. For treating us dark skin black women like we're aliens when in fact, we're just the female versions of them. It's things like making "preferences" that somehow always have to bring black women down. I emphasis on this because I think that if we as human beings want to make a change, we must start within. we should look at what goes on inside our communities first, because what goes on in the inside reflects on the outside. Yeah i'm young and still have a lot more life & wisdom to get through but I just hate seeing black women be immediately judged and put down because of our skin.
Stop caring about what black men think, open your options to men of other races. Trust me you are desirable
Word of advice, try as much as possible to not surround yourself with those self hating boys so you don’t become a target and engage in extracurricular activities that’ll expose you to the broader world and different kinds of people outside your cocoon ❤.
Yeah it's even in the rap music.
Thank you for commenting about this. Please try to stay off of social media or at least block pages that promote colorist views. Life will get better, please volunteer, feed the hungry, take martial arts classes, stay out and about. Also, guys of different ethnicities like dark women.
Very well articulated
Bleaching is not different than boob jobs, rhinoplasty, lip filler etc. You can say that large breasted women have more advantages than flat chested women.
Loved what everyone added to this convo, including the disagreements. Productive.
Her trying to compare skin bleaching to makeup is WILDDDDD
The dude claiming that being told you're not dark enough to be Black by a Black person, is the Blackest thing that can happen to you is WILD.
Is it bro? Really? If that was true 90% of the Black people on the panel would have either been told that or said it to another person lighter than themselves.
It is both uphold an institute of opression
@@john2g1 replying super late but he definitely has internalised anti-blackness. him seeing struggle & discrimination as the most black experience is so indicative of that. also, his dating experience was a clear example of how colourism hyper-sexualises and negatively impacts darkskin men. having ur humanity reduced to a BBC is not a privilege darkskin gay men have over lightskin gay men.
@@Nadia-jk5jw Yeah I have mixed feelings about these Vice panels. In order to ensure healthy debate most of the people on the panels are some form of influencer or media personality.
On the upside this is good; you get predictability when it comes to having opposing opinions to questions asked. Additionally, you have articulate panelists who have thought out their arguments and opinions.
On the downside actual conversations rarely happen, and instead you get people pushing their agenda (especially professional influencers). When someone has an opinion based on things that are factually untrue they come off as crazy, and unfortunately echo chamber people that share their beliefs.
@@bro-ss2eu i think that depends how u use makeup... if youre saying makeup in the sense of "presentability" then i can see how we conflate the two, however makeup can be removed and the comparison becomes ludicrous when u see how that other guy applied makeup which isnt meant to look natural and thats where the problem with bleaching misses its validity in comparison to makeup. There are no multi billionaire companies for markets where people are permanently trying to dye their skin green however with makeup its not relatively strange to see green .
I wish this was longer. I could listen to this group of individuals for hours. Great thought provoking questions , experiences, and feelings that was vocalized. I appreciate the honesty with this group.
fr tho!
Rude and ignorant some of them
That’s what she said
@@mkr10001who?
@@TheRealKenzie7711all of them except the man at the top right.
Yess! Promote conversations and use empathy as a guiding tool! ESPECIALLY when we don’t know/understand
Why is it that its ok for a light skinned girl to go to the tanning salon, but girls that want the opposite to have lighter skin, is looked down on?
Beca lism and now deem lighter skin as desirable. Darker skin (tans) are a trend right now, the same way being brunette may trend over being blonde every now and then. But at the end of the day, trend aside, natural darker skin is attached to many negative stereotypes and connotations
As a Lightskin black man in an African country ( South Africa ) I will admit there is a benefit in how you’re treated at school I was never searched or drug tested even once but my darker skinned friends were always under immense scrutiny . When the white boys and gals would throw parties I’d always get an invite but none of the other darker skinned kids hell even in varsity I was treated way better . There’s even this noticeable presumption of intelligence it’s really crazy .
Why it’s terrible it’s not really surprising it is South Africa the place where I would say has the most racial tension in the world
wow crazy dude thanks for confirming that racism exists.
My experience is different,I live in Nigeria and over here there is still colorism but just a different type than is seen in this video all skin types can and will get compliments if the person is beautiful but when comparing two beautiful people on the same level of beauty (features and all that) the lighter one will be seen as prettier...meaning if you had a light skin identical twin especially if your both female the lighter one will be seen as more beautiful but on a general note if your aren't pretty society will not decide you are because your light skinned although if compared to a darker person that people also consider unattractive the lighter one will win desirability but that won't put then in the pretty category.
Not saying there is no bias but just stating the difference in intensity
I agree. There can be some benefits. But my experience in school was very much the opposite. Ppl would make fun of me and say I’m not blk enough or that I’m yt
As a lightskin black man in America, there are no benefits.
If feel so bad for the skin bleached girl. Not only has she lost all hope for social change on issue, but she's internalized the trauma so bad that she has a financial incentive to keep change from happening !
Sammy Sosa.
yup
She just a weak minded woman influenced by social media more than herself, people that give random strangers more power over there own personal lives will never be happy in any form trying to please other people, and be accepted by them. Nothing to feel bad over she just a lost one, promoting the wrong message.
@@daftwod wow and to think that you listen to some of the same bands as me, you have no soul for rock, your just a racist like the rest.
@@dakota3872 ??
These two black men were needed to show contrast but its sad how disconnected they are from the reality of dark women experiences. It was shocking how dimissive they are.
I am biracial as well; my father is white (Jewish) and my mother is African-American. However, I am light-skinned with curly hair and pass for White or Hispanic. I get treated differently often by people who don't know I'm biracial. They assume that I am not "black enough" so I cannot add to the conversation. It makes me very sad because I grew up mostly with my mom's family and their customs. When I am treated differently, I feel like my own people reject me.
How do the Jewish treat you????💅🏿💅🏿💄🥱🥱🥱🥴😏💞🇺🇸💜💜🤞🏿
@@TeeBee-yj5tt Before, they were okay with it and liked my mom but over the last few years, they have become estranged. I’ve never personally met any of them.
@@angelaconnell8331 so yes ever race has skin color issues, I just say people love pointing out the family that was there faults, because they still long for even acknowledgement for the white side that wasn't...🤞🏿💅🏿💅🏿💅🏿💯💞🇺🇸🌍
How many cameras do they have filming at one time ?
The camera man cutting to certain people after certain things are said rather intentionally or not is absolutely hilarious.
Give him a raise.
Or the editing persons
Yes, some of the reactions are humorous.
Or camera woman.
They probably got about 3 to 4, one of them is def on a slider and others might be PTZ. This is probably best done with a switcher to save time.
Now the most significant issue here isn't the cams. It's the mics. That many mics are a nightmare to manage, even in real time. There is heavy cutting cause they don't have much cross talk.
@@LanceJohn it was a slider and 2 other camera ppl
My mom is lighter skin and I’m so happy that I never felt any pressure to be light skinned. 😍😍 she always told me I was beautiful as well as my dad. 🙏🏾
She lied to you
@@semprequevoceleroscomentar1063 you lying to yourself
My mom is brown and my dad was light. We never discussed skin tone in our family. Thank God.
black people complain that nobody takes them in hollywood or beauty industry😄 do your own hollywood then 🤡
@@SugaMoo exactly ugh lol
It's interesting and scary that the woman who bleaches said her mother always told her she was beautiful but she was ultimately influenced by media
I AM ACTUALLY DISGUSTED THAT whilst discussing COLORISM , U ONLY HAVE TWO Dark-skinned people , like is this a fknng joke? Could have had at least 1 dark skinned male also.
A panel with 50% of the participants being dark-skinned & 50% being light-skinned would've provided a more balanced perspective.
It'd be interesting to see uncut versions of these as well. The editing makes for a nice quick-ish/cohesive video, but there do seem to be obvious points where the dialog kept going. I love the longer format discussion videos and could do with even longer, since these conversations have been so good.
this biggest issue is having light skin folks there - like what’s the point…I know some folks who were in the room were seemingly on code but there were only two deep dark skin femmes in the space…so the convo was already not about to center them…
🧐🧐
@@HunnifredBee and more men maybe good point
@@HunnifredBee yeah im wondering why there was more light skin ppl than not...
@@HunnifredBee you do know that this was about race right? And not everyone there was black?
I would be lying if i said i didnt judged the girl who bleached her skin. But she told NO LIES... and i am so amazed by her transparency and honesty and commend her for that.. this is a beautiful group of people and I liked all of their input.
I think it’s sad that she felt she had to bleach her skin. No judgement from me, just compassion.
This was a wonderful conversation. Hands down.
I found this conversation interesting. I’m older . I’m a 70s baby and I’m a dark skin woman. I just turned 53 , I have no blemishes, never had uneven complexion ( blessed) . However I was disliked,made fun of , called every name of anything derogatory that is black . I also took up for myself as a young child because my mother instilled in me pride , confidence. I’m not a bad looking woman . I’ve never had a problem with catching the male eye . We had this conversation in the 80s,90s, to today is disheartening. Melanin is a blessing. I instilled this in my children who came with my complexion. It’s the Caste system . It’s every where around this world. It’s sad . Pink dress lady spoke gems, the gay black man was dismissive. The other dark skin girl , I felt it . The biracial , her hurt made me empathize with her . The girl who bleaches, no judgment, very transparent and I want to hug her . Love all humans . ❤❤❤😢
The girl who bleached her skin’s story is absolutely sad. And I feel so bad that she leaned into the bad past experiences and bleached her skin. And what made me more sad is that she’s allowing others to do the same with her product. Makeup changes ur features, it can be a layer of paint over ur skin and CAN change ur skin tone temporarily depending on what shade you use. Bleaching is literally removing pigment and melanin from ur skin PERMANENTLY- u can’t even be out in the sun too long becuz it could burn. There absolutely is a difference. I hope this convo was sumn that could motivate her to change her mindset and heal.
True.
Just like when lighter skin people go in the sun, They have to use sun screen, when a person lightens their skin, We also have to protect our skin as well. I feel an adult can make their own decisions, If they want to lighten their skin, they can. People get breast jobs, nose jobs, even getting junk injected into their butts! So if someone wants to lighten up their skin they should be able to. Hands down!
@@jazziskincare9474
No, it's different when person use bleaching cream to lighten their skin than a person born with light skin the sun affects them differently. These people are more likely to get skin cancer and doctors afraid to operate on them.
@@jazziskincare9474 and people die from plastic surgeries all all the time. Skin bleaching also comes with its own health hazards. Also why are we allowing the Eurocentric beauty standards to push us to bleach our skin. We are black people our skin comes in many different shades why should light skin be the better shade. I’m sorry but it isn’t ok to bleach ur skin there’s health hazards and also it’s not right. We need to start learning to accept that there’s nothing wrong with being dark skinned and being dark skinned doesn’t make anyone less than. I blame society for these standards but the black community also takes some of the blame for still leaning into these standards.
@@chimmychimchim6143 smh you really think you are a victim "eurocentric beauty standards" every country has different beauty standards sometimes you cant just blame someone for something because you dont like it, also everyone learned that being black was ok when they were 2
I appreciate the biracial women for being very honest and upfront about her privilege as a white passing woman. It was unfortunate, though, to see the 2 black men deny colorism the most.
Interesting....
Black men do not experience colorism like Black women. Often they are the ones who are colorist in Black communities.
I don't think they denied colorism more than that they spoke from their place in it as light to medium brown skinned men. It's confusing when you are in the middle. Not very dark but also not very light.
@JamieBleu I honestly don't remember this whole debate anymore. I just know women today seem to have an issue more with colorism than men. Which, in turn, can make them feel like it's not an issue.
@KamWinn-yl4fr You clearly don't know what colorism is, so let me help you. Colorism is the discrimination against people with darker skin tones. So, how can lightskin ppl experience colorism, too 🤔?
And just because they assume something gets labeled colorism when THEY don't think it is does not make their opinion valid. Yes, Some blk ppl can overdue racism or even colorism, but acknowledging a problem still exists helps to come up with solutions. I'm not campaigning for anyone to live as a victim.
unfortunately being lighter skinned is a social currency. I find that most times people (women) that say 'ooh do not bleach' are racially ambiguous and have no idea what dark women especially go through.
I swear this was refreshing. I could relate to the girl who bleached her skin, because although I never got to that point, there was a point where I was literally praying to God to make me light skin
I am shocked they didn't mention this- skin bleaching, is unregulated in many places, and can be very toxic and damaging. Like we are talking mercury poisoning. The history of skin bleaching is also so different then the history of people using makeup. Makeup is also reversible, skin bleaching...is not. From that guy talking about the gay community, and the preferences towards dark skinned men- thats called fetishization, and is probably an even stronger indicator of colorism. I get playing the devil's advocate but.....the arguments against colorism were bad. To add, as someone who felt that pressure, if you are young and reading this- please don't waste your singular life trying to be lighter. Its not worth it. Trust me.
👏🏿
It is interesting that he only talked about the preference of "white boys" but not the preferences of the people of color in that community. Someone should have asked him about that and what HIS color preferences are within that context.
Just do your research not every skin whitening is harmful
@Iamb there's skin whitening to even out skin tone damaged by acne, sunburn etc and then there's the skin bleaching masked as skin whitening that contains harmful chemicals that damage the skin and even affect internal organs. Yes, i know the difference. Why? Im a skincare formulator living in one of the worst cases of skin bleaching masking as skin whitening in Africa - Nigeria.
@@sarathemd08 ok who cares not all product contain harmful ingredients
Pink dress for the win, I love the way she didn’t allow them to bully the other girl.
Too bad she cant hold herself accountable
This was a great cast selection. Though it wasn’t everyone that I was a fan of, it was a good opportunity to hear different perspectives especially the lady who admitted to skin bleaching. It is a practice that I am firmly against, but I do appreciate hearing her side of the story. The two black men kept dismissing colorism, even though they acknowledged it, as a simple self-esteem issue and even tried to bring reverse colorism into the conversation. I’m glad they were shut down and corrected by the rest of the cast who seemed to be like minded people. I would also like to applaud the lighter skinned people in the cast who acknowledged their privilege. When you have a certain level of privilege, it is easy to get lost in your bubble. But you can actually tell that these people check themselves daily.
I see that your answer includes the word "privilege". How would privilege be defined, and why should such a definition only be based on skin tone? I myself am a 6'3" tall male. Do I therefore have height privilege, due to the fact that I've probably never been discriminated against "purely on the basis of my height"? Should there be affirmative action policies giving systemic preference to men below a certain height to "level the playing field" in terms of height discrimination against shorter men?
I am from south africa and colourism is a constant battle. Due to our history we classify ourselves as black, white, coloured and other. Segregation in our county stemming from apartheid has created this battle between the people of the land. Many of us grew up around people of our own skin tone which created this barrier of coloureds and blacks arguing about "who had the bigger struggle" its a tough conversation because Black african people have a long history of discrimination and more discrimination in apartheid than coloured people. But Coloured people come from khoisan people who are indiginous to the land but have been the first people in South Africa to be colornised which resulted in a dilution of their culture(killing of our people for game, taking advantage of our kindheartedness, ect) and a confusion of who they are due to being forced to breed with white people. I am coloured and dont feel coloured enough because of my "white" features such as a pointy small nose especially when i have my winter shade although ive grown up in a coloured community and faced the struggles of being discriminated against for being a coloured women(stereotypes about coloured girls being violent, loud and dumb). Ive been told i was either too coloured because of the way I speak but too white because of my features and ironically, the way I speak. This whole thing is sad and was schemed by the white man to put the people of the land up against each other when we should instead accept each other. Lighter skinned people do reap more benefits and apartheid had plastered that in our brains.
The girl in the pink dress, thank you!! Saying the things that needed to be said. Talking about "shame, you bleach your skin", OKAY... Talk about why they wanted to in the first place...
She was so ignorant lol
@@Chronz very. Comabative and self hating. I wish her PEACE.
Did anyone else read this and go "How?"
@@Chronz agreed
They use they/them pronouns
I feel for the lady who bleached her skin because as much as people judge dark skinned women who decide to do that, there's a lack of acknowledgement of how dark skinned black women are treated. Knowing the dangers and possible negative health consequences skin bleaching has and still deciding to risk your health shows that it's not an easy decision to make yet those who do it feel as if they have been backed into a corner. Everybody wants to feel like they belong, nobody wants to be discriminated against, especially in their own community. It takes a lot of self-esteem to not be affected by these constant societal reminders of how unworthy and unwanted you are because you're so far from whiteness. Toni Morrison articulates this perfectly in The Bluest Eye.
look at Hollywood, they all darken themselves. Ariana grande is not a natural color. that "tan" is what they are striving for. (not all, but its multi faceted and more gray than black and white, pun intended)
Lack of acknowledgment? Lmao of what? Of all the free handouts they get? Black people have it easier than any other race on earth. Stop living in the 1950s.
Thank you so much for this......This comment shows me that you understand "the struggle" Yes i lightened my skin and my life has changed, I researched before i began lightening my skin, You have to know what is in a product BEFORE you start using it. There are more natural ways to lighten the skin, without causing damage to the skin, those are the ways i have been using and will continue to use. It is really sad that this is still happening in the world, but we can plainly see it is not going anywhere and will always be here. It sickens me when a friend of mine who is Indian, married a Indian man, and their baby has a darker skin tone and my friend's family treats the baby different from the other kids in the family, So here we see it's happening in every background, not just in the black community.
nope stop playing the victim no one is treated differently because of there skin color smh
@@benygames7399You are delusional. Racism is real no matter how much you try to gaslight us
Yooooo sidenote the guy in the locs with the blue makeup looks like the catch me outside girl lmaooo
😂 he does
I feel like the representation part of it is key. I struggled with colorism my whole childhood and got bullied because of it too. When they put black women in the media, it's always a very very dark woman with very very short hair or overweight. It's like that's all they see. There's never a woman who is slimmer with long hair like a twist out or blow out or even a silk press. When she does, she's lightskin. It's just not a fair representation of all black women. It's almost like they make sure to avoid using a desirable black woman to keep the narrative that there is no such thing. I found myself trying to change my eye colour and hair colour to add some exotic to myself because I felt being just black was boring.
I’m so grateful to my mother who never allowed me and my siblings to buy into colorism. RIH Mama. 🙏🏽
Yesss.Same..
SAME
Same here
Same!
Your statement makes it sound like you don't think it exists? Please clarify if you don't mind
Amanda Seales Small Doses episode with Don’t Call Me White Girl is a great episode about bullying versus colorism. She explains that colorism works in one direction based on the further you are from whiteness. These are important convos.
videos like these are so important