STABILIZERS for Bow Hunting - Testing the Difference
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- Опубликовано: 21 дек 2024
- Stabilizer testing with the context of bowhunting. The stabilizers I tested are from Titanium Archery Products: titaniumarcher...
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Extraordinarily well done!! You covered more here regarding stabilizers than I've ever seen addressed within an individual video. This is information that Bowhunters can actually USE. 🤛🎯
By far the best combinations of archery and solid scientific method I have ever seen. I wish I could like this video more than once.
Really great work. No agenda, no bias, just plain good information. Very helpful.
This is by far the best analysis of front/sidebar uses and issues that I have ever come across. You have put a lot of useful data into your work, kudos to you!
Amazing analysis with clearly defined results. Combining actual data and practicality. All archers need to see this, and if you aren't working for an archery related company already, someone needs to hire you!
And this is why Garrett is the GOAT.
Love the way you attacked this from beginning to end. Incredibly thorough. Thank you for putting in the time and effort, it’s immense. Keep it up, and good luck this year !
This is the most comprehensive and well though out video I think I have ever seen. Great use of Six Sigma. Well done! You've just made me a dedicated follower of your channel.
Thats the best scientifically based stabilizer set up testing I have ever seen. Excellently done.
Thanks for nerding out on this! Just stumbled across the video and loved it
I'm watching this again a year out, and still benefiting from the insights of this research. Thank you for sharing it.
I’m new to archery and I found this video extremely helpful in understanding stabilizers. I appreciate how scientific your tests were 👍🏼
Your whole demeanor is so low key that you're - in my mind - actually selling your whole process and results rather short. Not that I'd want you to change anything in that regard. It's just that with all the channels that are much more hyper, a calm dude like you, that's really putting in the work and getting valid, practical results, is at risk of being somewhat drowned out. Glad YT still recommended your video so I could subscribe.
I like him as he is because he isn't trying to be someone he isn't. I am here for the data.
I really like the idea of having just a side bar. Great info Garrett!
I’ve been on the fence about side bars for years and after watching this, I’m ordering one right now!! Thanks for the in depth study you put into this!
I think mathews tends to be pretty top heavy so it makes since that having just a side bar would help, great video and well done as always!
I wonder to what extent the axle to axle length of the bow would increase or decrease the balance of stabilizers. As always, great content, brother!
Do a test Nate! 🎯
The long the axle to axle, the better the bow will balance out with stabs. Which is why the target bows always have that longer length. I learned this the hard way this year. 😬
I'll just say it has a bit to do with the moment arms having leverage and momentum, in this case the lack there of, dampening the effects of the shooter's inconsistency.
I was curious about this same thing after watching. When bow shopping, I experienced significant differences in stability between the 30”, 33”, and 35” ATA bows I tested w/o stabilizers. Although considered “long” for a hunting bow, I went with a 35” ATA model as this gave me the most confidence.
You do an outstanding job on your comparative analysis.
Excellent data. I will try to run this test my self to tune my rig. There are many variables depending on form, platform and set up. But well done. A real eye opener. Thanks for the Vid.
This video is insanely informative and helpful. Great job bro! This took a lot of effort. I’m definitely going to be implementing some of the things I watched here.
Great video. I have tried to convince my hunting partners (mom, kids, siblings) to use a more "target" stabilizer configuration on their bows - to no avail. They are satisfied with the accuracy they achieve and the reduced weight of their setups. I win every accuracy contest but that doesn't matter when hunting whitetails.
Outstanding test, thank you for putting this subject into perspective with real world testing.
My hoyt ventum pro has 2 front stabilizer mount points. Using the lower mount just above the bottom cam i get the benefit of shorter bar with the same stabilization of a much longer bar of mounted in the typical location
I just started shooting my Hoyt with 12” front and 10” side bar. It has definitely allowed me to settle on target quicker and keep the bubble level. Great video, very informative data
This is the coolest archery video I have ever seen. Great job
This is perfect. I use the same sight and was wondering if I would benefit from a side bar. Thanks for taking the time to make this great video.
Subbed! I love variations and data. The amount of time you put in to gather this data is greatly appreciated! 🤙🏽
I shoot almost the exact set up on my v3 27. Exact tap bars except I use 1 ounce up front and 6 in the back. I also shot for a while with only a back bar. Excellent video.
I removed my stabilizer a few years ago after shooting with one for 20 years- no complaints. Less weight to carry and I can’t tell a difference in my groups- my Mathews has little shock and seems well balanced already
Dude,,, you have no idea how awesome this video and info is. It was the first vid I watched and there’s no need to look any further. Very impressed. Thank you!
I’ve honestly thought about going rear only for a while now. I always hold low and it helps a lot
Just came across this video
I completely agree with you! Im using 2 up front and 6 in the back as well...perfect
Other comments said it better but I’m adding a comment anyway. Well done analysis and video. Material information.
Look at ‘eem pulling through shots like a boss!
Good video brotha.
Very cool video. I've been wrestling with whether to add a stabilizer to my set-up. Have been going without. Now I'm convinced I've got to at least give it a try. Thanks for the qualitative analysis.
I wish when I went to my bow shop, they made me go through this testing. Rather, I wish I had the motivation to do this myself. Nonetheless I am tired of being neglectful and being unsure about my shot. Thank you for this information. Next season I will have a much better setup thanks to this video!
Nice test with interesting results. I wonder how much the geometry of the Mathews comes into play. The 3 primary bow designs are 1. Have the grip in the center, 2. Have the arrow in the center, 3. Split the center between the grip and the arrow. Mathews puts the arrow center of the bow. This puts the grip well below center. This can make the bow feel top heavy. Most companies split the difference and put the arrow a little above center and the grip a little below center. I think PSE has had bows in the past with the grip in the center and the arrow well able center but in never was popular. The perfect bow would have the arrow and grip both in the center but that isn't possible without a hole in the hand.
I can see how just the side bar on the Mathews would be effective. I wonder how your stab test would do on another bow like Hoyt, PSE, Bowtech that split the center between the arrow and grip. I bet you would get some different results.
I have a 2011 Bowtech Specialist. Bowtech designed the Specialist and the Invasion with the need to add a stab so that they will balance. Without a stab, these bows fall backward. But when the proper stab is added, they have a good neutral balance. But people complained because when they went to the archery shop to check these bows out, the bare bow felt unbalanced. They didn't know these bows were designed that way on purpose as to be neutral balanced when a stab was added. If a bare bow has a neutral balance without a stab, it will be front heavy when a stab is added so a back stab helps to bring the bow back into a neutral balance.
Bow geometry and bow design like short ATA, parallel limbs and high let off has a big effect on bow stabilization. Plus, how a person rigs their bow will affect the stabilization. There are too many variables to test for without going crazy.
Yes, I think all of those variables would play a role. I used to have a bowtech that was the same way. It kicked back at the shot without some front weight. The mathews does feel more odd to me at full draw without stabilization because of the grip placement. So it definitely doesn't appear to be a one size fits all solution.
Thank you so much for all the work it took to provide this information to us. The practical application part in the woods was very good. Great job, very informative!
Amazing! I've been trained in scientific and statistical methods and this is a wonderful application. Thank you for putting this all together!
Impressive effort and academic rigor (said the guy with an English degree...). Thanks for taking the time to run through this AND share your results with us. I'm subscribing for sure!
Kudos to you for making this extremely informative video, that is packed with fact backed up by data.
Great data! Yeah I shoot almost identical bows for 3D and my hunting bow (PSE Xpedite) My target (3D) setup is about 7lbs lighter DW but same rest and sight but I shoot Hunter class and I use 11 3/4" and 5oz front and 6" 18oz rear and my Hunting bow is 9" 3oz only front bar and both hold great. Target bar holds more steady but Hunting bow holds slightly different in hand. Another helpful tips with rear bars is the angle up and down with the amount of pressure it puts on your bow hand in the grip. My other bow a VXR 31.5 I had tweak the angle a little to get more contact with the lower part of the grip and it helped tremendously on accuracy.
Statistical approach was well thought out and meaningful
Awesome! Ty for doing all this research and sharing, the side bar only makes a lot of sense on a Mathews never thought about that
Very interesting. I wouldn't have expected the side bar only to perform so we'll.
Shooting a PSE Evolve 35 at 29.5" draw and 55lbs. Pse phantom drop away rest new set of ABB platnum string and cables with a specialty archery 1/8" peep. Tru glo hyperstrie with sightline (after they had to stop making them but bew old stock from an online shop) and a tru ball abyss (1st gen) release. Have a quick disconnect on the front part of the riser with an 8" front bar a 1" shock ball and 8 oz of weight on the front putting me at a total of 11-15/16" (to comply with bow hunter class with local NFAA & MAA torunaments). I have a one sided "v" bar on the back side of the riser with a quick disconnect a 5" bar and another 8" balanced to 6" from the back of the riser. My arrows are Gold Tip Velocity XT's in 300 spine at 31" 100gr up front (apart from the 12gr insert), a custom made arrow wrap (whith a design i made in photo shop and had printed up) thats 11gr, 2" gateway feathers rayzr fletcings that all total about 412.2 gr with out my lighted nocks with then around 226.4. I use this bow for hunting, 3D and indoor target. I make 0 changes for any of those setups and 0 issues with shooting. The back bar made a HUGE difference in my stability and balance along with going with a longer front bar and the added weight to the front and back. I think people often under rate the benefits of having a back bar on a bow hunter setup wheather its for hunting alone or tournaments. But it really can make a big difference in how people can shoot
Excellent production value, and informative. Will try to extrapolate some of your findings into my own setup.
Brilliant work! I don't believe you ever mentioned the actual distance. Your mean group size looks excellent tho 👍
Very thorough explanation and demonstration of the set ups.
Ive been curious about these, thanks for doing a video on the topic.
I’m going to buy the new V3X tomorrow and this helped out a ton. Thank you!
Great video!! Thanks, got my thinking about a rear bar.
Great job on taking what could have been a really dry topic and making it interesting. That's definitely not easy!!! The video flew by!
One of the best video on this subject. Every good.
This looked like a bunch of work. Great video
I've been pondering my stabilizer set up lately. This video was incredibly helpful with great information! Thanks!
Great video. I shoot wt a front stabilizer and a Apex side mount and a rear stabilizer. My bow holds well for me wt that set up.
This is some great data, but I think it's important to note that others may have significantly different results. I shot the Garmin Xero A1i Pro for a few years, and it's great sight, but quite heavy. Coincidentally, I eventually removed my front stabilizer, and experienced a modestly perceivable improvement in accuracy. The A1i Pro lists at 18 ounces, whereas some lightweight hunting sights are in the sub-12 ounce range. This year I'll be shooting the Pruf, which is in the 9 ounce range. When it arrives, I'm going to experiment with stabilizer configurations using the Shot Sense.
100%. Results will vary based on the setup. I had a PSE omen and it shot better with more front weight by comparison to this bow. And I'm picking up a liftX 29.5 shortly. I'll probably start with what I had here for the V3 31 and tweak as needed.
Thank you very much for the information. Helped out quite a bit for me and my set up.
Love that archery course!!!
I do wonder if setups that run their sight further out the front on a slider have in effect made themselves a 'front bar' already. High yes, but still a front weight that's out beyond the limb pockets. Perhaps on these setups its harder for a front bar to be felt, which might be why it was hard for you to separate the front/rear from the rear only. ATA would also have to play into it. A shorter ATA bow is going to be more prone to rolling left/right than say a long upright 3D bow and you'd think would benefit greatly from side bars
Yes, there's soemwhat of an effect there because that high forward weight is still causing a moment that would want to tip the bow forward. With heavy, long sights like the Garmin it's probably even more pronounced than a highly skeletonized sight.
@@DIYSportsman because of your vid (which is one of the best out there on this topic) I had a play with solo rear stabilisers. I also watched a good Chris Bee vid on stabilisers where he talks about grip 'bias'. Basically the idea that if you were to set up your weights at full draw in a hooter shooter, yes you'd achieve perfect bow balance but then a gust of wind or a fatigued dip and the bow will easily move off that equilibrium because your bow arm/grip are switched off. BUT if you are initially unbalanced eg. a solo rear bar has the bow naturally canted ever so slightly left, then your bow arm will subconsciously have an ever so slight correction/tension to it that actually makes you more stable to these de-stabilising things. I'm naturally double jointed and my wrist is floppy with no structure to it even on low angle grips. I really benefit from biasing the bow to cant left by half a bubble if I draw with my eyes closed. The subconscious correction that then goes into that lets me hold steadier and longer. The amount of weight seems not to matter at all for me, but the location of just a bit of weight is more important.
Kudos to you for a very detailed experiment. Im wondering if a short stabilizer can perform the same as a long stabilizer. Can you make a video about that?
You can get a similar effect with a shorter stabilizer, but need more weight to get the same leverage.
What sight are you running? I have a Burris oracle 2 and I am hoping the back bar balances out the heavier sight. Great video as well. Love the statistical and data driven approach.
Well done. 🤔 does having the mathews limb legs on, add or subtract from stability?
Since it's attached firmly to the bow, it'll have a similar effect to adding weight to a short downward pointed front bar or a lower mount stubby stabilizer like the hoyt. That's why i saw differences adding and removing the limb legs when I only had a rear bar to counteract it. Whereas when I had both front and back bars on, adding and removing the limb legs didn't have a profound difference.
I don't think anybody could have been more thorough on this testing . Great job
I have noticed the diameter of the the stabilizer shafts has been getting small and smaller. I would be curious to see if there is really any benefit or if it’s just a way to make them look more aesthetically pleasing. Maybe instead of looking at the fatigue factor someone would look at the effect the wind has.
Smaller diameter bars have less surface for the wind to catch but also are not as stiff. I'd venture to guess that shorter hunting length stabilizers would be tough to measure a difference between large or small diameter, but with long target rods, you'd have to strike a balance, probably through shooting both styles in wind and measuring scores.
Great video. This is something I’ve been looking at. I’m considering a side bar.
Box and whiskers chart. Nice
Thank you for your time with this, very concise. Lefties really are genius.👊🏼
Really enjoy all your videos. And thanks for not have some pretentious into roll and music!!!!
Have you thought about using the quiver to provide that back weight?
The quiver does shift the weight back, but it also adds to the weight on that side of the bow, which usually needs to be counter balanced with the side/back bar. That said, there are some people who prefer a bow that is not balanced side-to-side but rather has a bias to the tilt that they have to put consistent grip pressure against to keep the bubble level.
Great now I have to buy a side bar. Lol
Always impressed with way of looking at things.
So much work put into this thank you so much!
Very good video! Definitely watch this multiple times.
The front weight built into the mathews acts as a front bar when only running the back bar. Also I think every person, bow and arrow setup, and stabilizer setup are all different for each person.
Totally agree. I also noticed that the engage limb legs really acted as somewhat of a front bar also, because they weigh like 6 oz. That might be why they showed a POI change initially.
@@DIYSportsman agreed. But for me I like to a pretty hard back wall with a rather high holding weight and to pull against it somewhat hard. My stabilization needs will be different than someone that shoots a lighter poundage bow with a more spongy back wall. I do appreciate your research a lot. I have shot lights out with no stabilizer on my bow at all out to 90+ yards. But I think as an average when you factor in wind and environmental issues combined with adrenaline of shooting game I am much more consistent when I have something there to help me minimize quick movement. I have also noticed that I never really have crazy fliers when running a full front bar and back bar.
Here's one for you. I ended up with an 8" backbar on the SAME side as my quiver with 3 of 4 arrows in it to be level at full draw. Thoughts?
Hmm, that is atypical. I'd double check to ensure your sight is leveled, and beyond that I'd imagine that it could just be related to the way you grip the bow.
@@DIYSportsman good idea, I'll double check level.
Bravo, extremely thoughtful and thorough. Thank you. I want to go out today and shoot with only a back bar and see what happens. Question, have you researched one brand of stabilizer versus another? So much marketing noise and I can’t discern the real differences, if any, between the brands. Perhaps the answer is that the real difference is no stab versus stab, and the make of the stab is a marginal, or no, difference. I have some old and rather short stabs and want to modernize, but no clue how to distinguish between brands. Thx.
From the physics standpoint the things that would matter are stiffness and weight of the bar. That said, some manufacturers add some material to help deaden some vibration. That doesn't affect the actual stability but may help with the perceived vibration, etc. Or one company might have adjustment brackets that are easier to use or lock in place than others. I can do this type of testing with my homemade aluminum bars and still see benefit.
The problem is you didn’t do a bow hunting test. You did a target shooting test. Get up 15-20 feet in a tree and shoot at a target 15-20 yards away. Do this of a platform and then off a saddle. Then we’ll know if a stabilizer makes a difference when hunting.
Great testing and awesome video! Keep up the great work.
That was an awesome video and tutorial. Thanks.!!!
Engineer? Dude,..awesome video, learned a lot!
Yes, that's what my degree was in. Appreciate the feedback
Great video as always but why no front bar only test?
On this bow for me, I couldn't get one to balance well. With a front bar only, the bow felt heavier, took longer to settle down after hitting full draw, and the pin wanted to drop out of the target, all symptoms of needing more weight in the back. Plus the side-to-side balance still favored the weight of the sight/rest on one side of the bow. But it's entirely possible that a different bow geometry could do better with front bar only. I had some footage but decided not to add it to the video because I didn't run it through the full gamut of tests.
@@DIYSportsman thanks for that. I have zero experience with a side bar and I’m very curious. But I would have been liked to see the results compared to the others. Would be especially meaningful almost every bow I know uses only a front bar. As a Bowhunter, where would you start for a backbar? The size you used in the test?
Very informative video! A lot of information to take in! Good job!
What part of Minnesota are you from?
Thanks. I live a little north of the Minneapolis area.
Excellent video, well done, will definitely follow the tips, thanks for effort 👏🏻👏🏻
I’m shocked. The man that sold me my bow 7 years ago told me stabilisers are over rated and not needed. Now I need to try shooting with stabilisers and see if I can steady my bow faster 🤯
Those arrows were coming out incredibly straight. When and why the switch to the mathews?
I wanted to go more middle-of-the-road in terms of sizing, and shoot the longest bow that still allowed me to shoot comfortably on the ground, which is like 30-31" ATA. The number of times were I really needed a 24" were pretty few. I was considering buying a handful of brands to test over several weeks but lead times, especially for lefties, was pretty brutal this year, and when I got the Mathews in a couple months ago, I knew I was going to like it after a couple days of shooting, so I didn't really pursue testing any others. The platform seems pretty stable, tuning was a breeze (bareshaft bullethole by the 2nd shot I ever took after setting it up), and I'm shooting it as well as any setup I've ever had in the past.
@@DIYSportsman oh you can see those arrows are coming out on a line. Mathews has a good system and they know it. I will say the pse evo evl would probably feel and shoot the same but the process to tune a mathews with those top hats and the switchweight system is a no brainer for anyone that likes to shoot year round with changing set ups. I wish i would've got one but i cant complain about the pse. Great video and good luck on the season
Also, love ur V3 setup👍🏿
Your sight looks pretty substantial and fairly far in front of your shelf (essentially a "stabilizer"). So, to me, that makes sense that the just backbar is balancing that out. Whereas if you add the front bar you are adding to the sight, thus needing more backbar weight. What is the weight of your sight? Also, having shot mathews in the past and this year when deciding on a new bow I do find them to be top heavy, which means they like a backbar. Just my 2 pennies. Thanks for putting in the effort for us!
Yea that makes sense. The sight is 14.7oz. I also have found the Mathews to feel a little top heavy. A touch less so than their prior year models but more than some other brands.
@@DIYSportsman I'd be curious to see the same run through with the EZV. I bet that thing weighs almost nothing and then the bow may like a little more out front. Thanks again! Maybe we'll cross paths at the range. I'm picking up my new bow next week, then will be out there often. I got a bear hunt in a couple weeks so I gotta get things tuned up in short order!!
At what distance were you shooting for your testing? My limit for shooting will be 30 yards.
The data I'd collected and analyzed was at 70 yards. The difference will still be there at 30, just on a much smaller scale.
Thank you, glad to subscribe
Good God I love your crap! Good to see a real bow for the test! Would love your testing on an Oneida
hey i know where that range is! thanks for the video very informative
I shot your average stabilizer witch only came off the front of the bow for 6 years or so I switched to a bee stinger stabiliser witch cones off the front and the back and I instantly noticed a big difference. Its way better in my opinion.
Wow. That was really thorough.. thanks for your efforts on this! 👌😎
Wonderful video! Your thoroughness and scientific rigor was excellent and really makes a difference in my decision making. Now if you could do something to answer the question of fixed or mechanical broadhead :))
Really great video. Thanks.
Would one need to re-tune thier bow after adding stabilizers?
Most likely yes. At the very least check to verify if it has changed.
Very nicely done!
Do you think that the information that you gathered through this testing might vary significantly if you used a different bow. Did you try any of this with on your old BX-32? Shifting bows has made a big difference for me on the impact of a stabilizer on pin float and accuracy.
Yes I think it would. The mathews for instance has that lower grip. And the new hoyt risers seem to put more material low and forward. I did a similar exercise, though not as in depth with the BX32. If I remember right it wanted a little more front weight.
I’m shooting a Triax with a 10 inch front, 8° quick detach, 3 oz, and an 8 inch rear with a quick detach and 8 oz. I don’t know if it actually helps, but my brain thinks it does.
Hunting with these big stabilizers is a pain in the ass