5 Reasons the 4th Commandment is Moral. SDAs Respond to
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- Опубликовано: 12 янв 2024
- In this video, we respond to claims presented by the critic that the "Sabbath" is not a moral commandment. What many don't realize is that the 4th commandment is MORE than just the Sabbath.
#sabbath #adventistchurch #sda #seventhdayadventist #seventhdayadventistchurch #seventhday #ellengwhite #ellengouldwhite #christianity #christ #jesus #jesuschrist #god #holyspirit #holy #tencommandments #commandments #sabbathcommandment
#4thcommandment
#archangelmichael #sabbathday #lordsday
This is the most bizarre challenge of the Sabbath I’ve ever heard!!! Wow. I can’t even begin to imagine using this to justify not keeping the 7th day Sabbath.
Thanks to you brothers for consistently bringing God’s Truth to this important subject. God Bless you all.
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Thank you, Elder Cotto, for this wonderful breakdown of showing that the Sabbath is a moral principle that we should delight to celebrate. Great breakdown, beloved.
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Sabbath blessings my precious family in Christ 💖
Thank you for this explanation. I pray that we all will be prompted by the Holy spirit to remember the way that you explain this when we are called to give an account on why we keep the sabbath
Thank you for this message,you break it down with the scriptures,and explain each verse.God Bless 🙌 in Jesus name Amen.
It's also moral because blood has to cover the decalogue under the mercy seat. We only need mercy for immorality.
18:52 almost made that point. Luke 23:56 they kept the Sabbath as commanded after Jesus declares a New Covenant in Luke 22.
Excellent!
I understand that allusions often have weaknesses, but Thunder’s usage of murdering six days a week to indicate that the Sabbath is not moral is nonsense. This is an example of a classic non sequitur.
The concept of providing rest and time to recharge to our neighbors is a great example of love to our neighbor. If you run a business and have employees you will clearly understand this truth.
The sabbath and its day is not an option no matter what anyone says, now can we worship extra on other days , absolutely and I encourage everyone to come to God daily but the sabbath was made by God for man on a specific day (the seventh day), that day is Saturday. In biblical times days didnt have names but rather went by numbers, IE: the 1st day, the 3rd day, etc... The Sabbath was reminded to many of the Israelites on stone as they had forgotten since being with the Egyptians for 400 years. But the Sabbath law has not changed since Adam and Eve, and before someone says its only for the Jews, ask yourself was Adam and Eve jews? If so that makes all mankind Jewish and therefore subject to the Sabbath Law.
You guys should live debate this guy
We've already made that attempt, and he bailed due to not having it his way and refusing to come to an agreement. Every one of these popular critics do that.
Read Deut 12:32 when your church folk insist on celebrating CHRISTMAS ON DEC 25, A ROMAN CATHOLIC COMMANDED HOLIDAY...
This is another bible verse where God himself FORBIDS IT...
Thanks for your comment. Just keep in mind that there is nothing in the fundamental beliefs of the SDA Church that endorses it, nor does the official church push it on its members. But the church cherishes the right of its member's freedom to choose.
Ellen G White:
“Shall We Have a Christmas Tree?”-God would be well pleased if on Christmas each church would have a Christmas tree on which shall be hung offerings, great and small, for these houses of worship. [Note: Reference is made in this article to current building projects. As the principles set forth in this connection are applicable today, these specific references are left in the article.] Letters of inquiry have come to us asking, Shall we have a Christmas tree? Will it not be like the world? We answer, You can make it like the world if you have a disposition to do so, or you can make it as unlike the world as possible. There is no particular sin in selecting a fragrant evergreen and placing it in our churches, but the sin lies in the motive which prompts to action and the use which is made of the gifts placed upon the tree. . AH 482.1
Which "church folk" are those? Provide names, positions, etc. You can't just bear false witness about things and then attempt to claim them as truth. Ive worked/pastored in three of the North American Division Conferences and spent time serving and preaching in others. Neither the official church website nor leadership endorse nor demand what you are implying.
This is illogical case to attempt to make the fourth commandment to be a “moral” commandment by trying to tie the ideas of work and rest as ideas that are moral because the commandment mentions work and rest. It takes only a few questions to begin to illustrate how this isn’t moral.
And what are those questions?
@@AdventDefenseLeague
So in the arctic circle the amount of time one works and one rests is measured differently from the land of Israel.
While it is immoral to steal or murder in all occasions, Christ points out it is ok to work on the Sabbath when doing good. Hence, Adventists have their pastors work in Sabbath, medical personnel work on Sabbath, police and firemen work on Sabbath. And so on and so on. When questioned about His disciples “working “ on Sabbath by eating wheat kernels - Christ gives the examples of David eating show bread.
These and other examples do not fit into the case being made that the Sabbath is a moral commandment. As one brings up more and more examples - the Adventist will weave and turn with tons of logic to explain this or that exception.
If I ask 10 Adventist how to keep the Sabbath- I will get 12 answers back.
And let’s include Hebrew Roots believers too. They will give another list of answers - not to mention the actual Jewish believers from their various writings over multiple time frames.
Everyone knows intuitively what murder is. Everyone understands what stealing is. We understand committing adulterer - especially after Christ even further clarified it.
Now let’s go back to how Adventist hold the 4th commandment to be above all the others. It is the one that divides everyone at the end of time.
Yet, unlike the moral commandments found in Exodus 20 and the other moral commandments included in the ceremonial sections of the law.
Adventists cannot even agree on how to keep it among themselves . The exceptions run long and deep - ever expanding.
When EGW was asked about those living in polar regions… her only answer was there are more hospitable places to live.
The commandment isn’t moral. This is the common sense statement EJ L. is making.
Non-believers understand theft is wrong, they understand taking innocent life is wrong, and the list goes on.
However, there is no way anyone would have thought of keeping the seventh day as a day of rest.
Again even the way the Sabbath has been kept through history has been changing. Stealing has been stealing throughout history… murder has been murder throughout history.
@@AdventDefenseLeague
Also recommend you watch and read the material done by R.L. Solberg. He does extensive reviews on the relationship of the law and gospel. His ministry is dealing with those in Hebrew Roots movements but there is enough overlap with Adventist to be worth viewing.
Adventist teach (one only needs to attend their Sabbath School classes to hear this repeated at nausea) that the Protestant churches teach the law has been done away with.
However this isn’t true. There are two main views. The reformed / Calvinist view which holds the law in high regard and are sabbatarians. They believe the Sabbath is continuing under the New Creation motif.
Then there is a second group that see the Sabbath as a foreshadowing of the rest we have in Christ. The type (Sabbath) is fulfilled by Christ who brought the full rest.
Outside of people like Andy Stanley or other are flung progressives - there is no church I am aware of teaching the moral law has been done away with.
Adventists have actively supported Abortion and filed legal briefs on the issue to keep it legal.
So they are misrepresenting what protestants actually believe… which one may see as bearing false witness against your neighbor. Furthermore, supporting the legality of taking unborn life may seem to break other clear commandments.
Not to mention the smears done to Canright at many SDA camp meetings.
Yet there is a prideful assertion that they keep all the commandments - but are not in any agreement even internally how to actually “keep “ the Sabbath.
Now I was raised in the SDA church and going by appearance assume I am far older than the members on the panel.
Hence, I have a bit of first hand experience and knowledge of these things.
@@user-rg1ms6sj2k I asked you what were your questions, and you came back with a bunch of statements, almost like a bit of a rant, without actually asking one. You made so many statements that I am discouraged to have to sit here and type a bunch of responses that for one will take too much time and two, you will not be convinced anyway, since you feel you're much older and wiser them the panel. So, I will say just a few things that should suffice and if it does not suffice to you, that is ok by me.
First, nearly every assertion you made in your two posts were answered in the long version from which this short clip came from. Seriously, from the arctic claim all the way to the claim that moral laws are innate, and the Sabbath is not. My mind suddenly got fogged with the very thought of having to repeat it all again with my fingers on this keyboard, when I can just direct you to the video itself. I will say only, for the sake of mental peace, give a short answer. If you have further questions, see the long version. Regarding the claim that the Sabbath can't be kept on a globe but only in Israel, which is what I gather from your arctic claim, this is based on a few misconceptions. First, in Acts 2 we read that Jews, themselves Sabbath keepers, came from "every nation" to worship at Jerusalem for the festival. Every nation. Let that sink in when thinking about the differences of sunset times around the world. So, the possibility exists. Its not a question of if, but how, which leads to the next point. Genesis 1:14-16 explains that "time" including "days" can be read by the stars and moon also, IN ADDITION to the sun. You might be a victim of the sunset-only rule, which says that time can only be read through the sun. But the stars may still be visible in the sky when the sun is out, anywhere around the world, and thus "time" and "days" may still be measured, albeit the length of each may differ. Note that verse 14 says these were set to also tell the "seasons" which in Hebrew means "appointed times, appointed days, meetings." It was God's intention for this to take place on a round world even before sin. I recommend a book called "The Lord's Day on a Round World" by Robert Leo Odom. He does a better job than I do on this point. Oh, and I agree with EGW as well. Many places on the earth are not suitable for living, and increase risk come from living there. Evidently those were places that were not designed for living, as not only the days are effected, so it the food and water supply, quality of living, health risks are increased, etc. Critics point out the issue of telling time, but don't point out the various other issues.
Regarding the issue of moral laws being innate in the conscience of people, this was also clearly explained using Romans 1-3 in the long version. It is true that the seventh-day is not noted naturally in our minds as being holy and moral, but the same can be said of the name of God. Thus the pagans, who could detect there must be a God, simply claimed Him as the "unknown God" as we read in Acts. Paul had to come and name him! You simply cant tell by nature or by the natural mind what is God's proper name in order to respect it, and yet that commandment remains moral. EJ recognized this and threw the baby out with the bathwater, claiming all of the first four commandments are NOT moral! Imagine that, claiming that worshiping God only is not a moral issue... all for the sake of attacking the fourth commandment. I pity this critic and anyone who agrees with him.
Simply put, Romans 1-3 demonstrates three ways to detect morality: by nature, by conscience, and by being TOLD, hence the Ten Commandments. Its even in that order. Chapter 1 speaks of nature, and so the gentiles are guilty because through it they know of God. Chapter 2 speaks of the conscience "either excusing or accusing" right from wrong, and the rest of the chapter, into chapter 3, speaks of the Ten Commandments, and those who have it being held to an even higher standard. With the first two, nature and conscience, people even disagree with what's moral or not. One may say its morally wrong to lie, others say its not in certain cases. The heart is often deceitful and wicked, and so God comes with ten WRITTEN laws to clarify the issue. Yes, we don't know through nature and conscience that its the seventh day that is holy, but neither do we know its God's name that is holy. But we know when the WRITTEN law comes by and tells us. Thus, "all the world is guilty before God" since "by the LAW is the KNOWLEDGE of SIN." Do you understand, my well-experienced former SDA friend? Even Paul said he would not have known covetousness unless the WRITTEN law had said, "thou shalt not covet" (Rom. 7:7). YOU might believe coveting can be known by nature or conscience and thus it is moral, but not even Paul knew it was moral until it was written down and directly told by God. God is the ultimate arbitrator of morality. HE decides. Not our minds or our nature. Not even the nature of the external world. Those can only give a glimpse, and an imperfect glimpse at that.
This and more was explained in the long version of this clip, along with some other videos, especially recent ones. I invite you to go view them. It may be that you may learn a thing or two from these young-bucks on the panel. Blessings.
Edwin M. Cotto
@@AdventDefenseLeague
I have only read through the first paragraph. I am disappointed you took offense to writing statements instead of changing them into questions. Further, my statement about age and time in the church was evidence about I understand the culture of Adventists and the uninformed things stated in their Sabbath School classes across multiple churches and decades.
You ask people to comment and bring up concerns, issues, and objections to your hypothesis. However, when the feedback is provided it sounds you read it in the most negative perspective possible.
You do have the unfortunate situation of talking to someone who has lived, studied, attended SDA schools, participated in SDA church organizations, and has a sold understanding of SDA thought.
Now if we can stick to the actual issue that would be appreciated.
You guys are just not willing to give it up. I already mentioned Hebrews 4 and the requirment to enter that rest which paul = with the seventh day is TO BE SAVED ONLY. Again Adam didnt had working rules in connection to the sabbath because sin didnt exist yet. Even God in the forth commandment clearly separates the jewish rest that is based on HIM RESTING on the seventh day. One is a type and shadow vs the original reality. The moral commandment is to be at rest as in Genesis and not Exodus. Paul tells you how to entere that rest. Everything you cite as proof is kind of irrelevant since it is given AFTER SIN. God gave circumscision and then abolished it as well.Same here. He gave types and shadows which got abolished due to Christ death which restores the original realities. You are teaching people to return back to Hagaar and not Sarah as Paul cites it. You wanna make up your own sabbath with your own rules ? Sure ! but dont teach people its a moral law to be done exactly on saturday. Stop addressing silly arguments nobody cares about.
//Everything you cite as proof is kind of irrelevant since it is given AFTER SIN.//
Actually, each of the points I made are BEFORE sin, except the last one. Viewers are invited to watch the video. This critic obviously didn't watch it.
@@AdventDefenseLeague i ll respond to each thing
1 "It command work" - No it doesnt because Adam was not given rules on when to take care of the garden or no NOR IS THERE punishment if he stops doing that. Its not a commandmnet. Its an activity given to him to be enjoyed on HIS TERMS. God never imposed anything of the work to be related to the sabbath. Also the sabbath was supposed to be eternal in that state rather singular day therefore Adam could work his garden as much as he wanted without END.
2 "It command rest" - No it doesnt because there was no burdеin and no sin as to rest from. The rest as in Hebrew 4 is a rest from SIN and the only way to rest from sin is to be in Christ. There is no such thing as Adam resting on a specific day. The "Ceasing" of God from creation has nothing to do with imposed rest on the creation itself because THERE WAS NO SIN TO HARM IT or TIRE IT. Even if you get tired there is no rule that you must rest on such and such day. That is nonsense. All was created Good and God rested on the seventh day. Do you read any subsequent entailment of command given by God to his creation ?
3 "It commands God's day"" Read Hebrew 4 it specifically tells you how to enter that day and THAT DAY is contrasted with the day that Joshua son of Nun gave to the jews which is the Mosaic sabbath. Its a very different day. Just as i said above you have no reasons nor scripture prior to the Fall of man. You are interpreting the genesis story in light of Exodus rules. Its backwards. Its absurd. The reason God keeps healing even on the sabbath is because the REST ISNT FROM ACTIVITIES. The rest is from sin. If sin doesnt exist or if you are justified as like Christ makes you THEN YOU ARE AT REST CONSTNATLY.
4 Moral principles - The only moral principal is to not have sin.Its anot about activities. I am repeating myself but you seem to not get it. As for the commandmnet to NOT EAT indeed that is a command but its given for FREE WILL SAKE and not the sabbath. The sabbath and its purpose ( no rules) were already put and considered GOOD after the creation week. The commandmnet to not eat came later and it has nothing to do with thesabbath
5 Continue to be moral - It was always moral but not the one in exodus which you use to interpret the one in genesis. The moral part was to be without sin or in Christ and that is how youa re to keep it and thats what Hebrew 4 says.
“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”[b]
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world.
As you can see that 7th day is already completed and the authors says that you enter there through Christ. That is the moral part. The weekly sabbath is type and shadow of that. How is that seventh day completed when there is weekly sabbath ? Its so because they are 2 DISTINCT THINGS.
You might have cited pre Fall verses but you do so to argue irrelevant points unrelated to the topic honestly. You cant refute this and you are grasping at straws. When it comes to circumscision its the same thing. God commanded many things and we do recognize when some are fulfilled in Christ and abolished. You make special exception for the ceremonial SABBATH even though there is moral one that is kept by default in Christ
@@masakerum4121 The Sabbath also means rest from worldy activities, as the Lord rested from creating the world. We have to stop wanting to fit God into our small minds and our very restricted understanding, making us stiff necked!! The 10 commandments are not to be tampered with!! We can not change the law of God written by His fingers on the stones and tablets of our hearts. If he has taken the time to write them into our hearts, it is not for us to disobey them at will!
@@masakerum4121
Hello I pray you are well.
I would encourage you to take a closer look at Hebrews 4 and the word “rest” used in verse 9. If you do further research into the word used for rest here, it specifies it is referring to “Sabbatismos” or “Shabbos”which means SABBATH. - you can find this using E-Sword, or even if you are using the youversion Bible App, if you change your Bible translation to the Jewish Orthodox text, it will show you the type of rest he is referring to.
The verse specifically says, ”For if Jesus had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a Sabbatismos rest for the people of God.“
I had to do a little extra research into Hebrews 4 because it was the ONLY scripture I’ve read that I personally believe would’ve actually made a good argument against the 7th day Sabbath.
I hope this helps 😊
@masakerum4121 Acts 17:30. When you perish you have no excuse