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Debunking the MYTH: Are There Souls Under An Altar in Heaven? Revelation 6 EXPLAINED!
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- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2024
- Many critics often use the 5th seal of Revelation chapter 6 to prove that when the dead die, their souls ascend to Heaven. The 5th seal does say that there are souls under the altar, but do the critics read the context of the chapter? Why do they consider the souls under the altar to be literal when Revelation is a symbolic book?
#adventist #seventhdayadventist #sda #sdachurch #adventistchurch #ellenwhite #ellengouldwhite #seventhdayadventistchurch #jesus #god #soulsleep
Thank you for speaking for the SDA church. As a member I have never heard that we teach that 98% of scripture is symbolic. Maybe you know something I haven't heard in 49 years of sermons.
And when you became a member.. you said the devil is doing your atonement !in the investigative judgement !the devil loves you !and he has you speaking for him right now.
Psalms 115:17 The Dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence "
That's true about the dead they're spiritually dead. They are not the saved at the cross which doesn't happen with SDA!
@@JamieElison after death is judgment Hebrews 9:26-27 So which people do you mean at the cross, because it was Christ who was at the cross
@@okwijames947not the SDA Jesus.. was not at the cross!
i do not understand why the majority does not get it right!!?? The breath of life and the lifeless body combined become a living soul or a living body (human) .How can they not see that.there are no souls (living bodies) under the altar!! I realized that they make symbolic into literal and literal into symbolic!!😓😰
That's not a "Soul".
@@Pacmanflatts23then... why does Genesis 2:7 say exactly that...?
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Or 1 Corinthians 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Mine is biblical, what is yours???
Why are so many people that doesn’t know what a soul is? God made Adam from the dust of the earth and breathed into his (Adam) nostrils the breath of life and he became a living soul. So a soul has a body and the breath of life. So when you die the breath goes back to God the body decays (returns to dust). So a soul has to have 1. Body 2. Breath of life. There is no such thing as a life without both! This proves that Ghosts are demons pretending to be a dead person for whatever reason. To know the reason for a ghost vision you would have to ask Satan but you would be told a lie, I think!
@@Pacmanflatts23 Go back to genesis again. You are blinded by the Greek vision of soul. THe bible is not greek.
Spirit = Breath
Soul = Body + Breath, it is that simple, when you abolish the greek ideology it becomes so much clearer to understand.
@@Pacmanflatts23Adventist do not believe in Soul Sleep.
The Bible doesn't use that term. Neither do Adventists.
@@Pacmanflatts23 then please show me an official statement that says SDAs believe in Soul Sleep.
So how's come did my mother die and see the angels came back and told me about it
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv According to the Bible you would have been talking to evil angles masquerading as your mother.
This is so sweet! I love that your conversation is strictly bibilical and for me who feared reading Revelations this is the best I’ve learned I’m going to study with you. God multiply your efforts men of the Lord. I’m learning
Has he not read that blood speaks. God told Cain that Ables blood cried out from the ground representing Able's life. Since he is crying from the ground does that mean Abel is loss? 🤦
Bravo Bro Jason and Deonte and the rest of the brothers of ADL. I hope and pray to the God and Creator of Heavens and the Earth that your blood will be the last to be laid under the altar in case of injustice in the last days. Be strong and be humble and may all the critics will soon be convicted by the Holy Spirit to open and see with their spiritual sight the truth presented by the Scriptures. May you all (ADL) be the last man (of GOD) standing in the last days. God Bless your Ministry.
But nothing you wrote there is even in the Bible. There's nothing going on at the altar in heaven! All you said is you're not saved now.. and you won't be when you die. unless you repent! What you're saying does not occur! (Hebrews 7:13) he's doing nothing at the altar!!!does not occur for you!
Tell Everyone at church to subscribe. And everyone who says false things about our beliefs. God Bless.
It's not a church it's an association if you look that up it's called a club . These guys just want to destroy the Bible because that's what the devil does Matthew 10:28. That's what's going to happen to you!
The uploader is only letting the comment show once in awhile..! why don't you ask him if he's an honest person.? I said that if your SDA. You have rejected Jesus At The Cross.. saying he's the devil doing your atonement in the investigative judgment that's your confession of faith! so what happens to you. Is Matthew 10:28. The guy would not let it print! Why would a place that says they can( defend what they believe )..erase the the comments? in particular a scripture or straight from the the Bible!
@@JamieElisonthey erase comments because they do not want the truth out. I have experienced my comments being removed. Especially when I posted comments from EGW which contradict the Bible.
How could all the souls of the martyrs fit under an altar?
And how could they Not fit under the Altar in heaven?
The same way thousands of demons live in one man when Jesus met him at the tomb.
Then obviously, the souls are asleep and not consciously aware for they are not demons or angels, and no human has an immortal soul, then, this is symbolic and not literal. Humans don't get immortality until we are raised together with everyone else who is saved when Jesus comes again! Let the Bible explain itself and don't try to twist it to try to make it say what you want it to say! Do yourselves the biggest favor that you can ever do for yourself and go to Amazing Facts channel or app or online and watch the Panorama of Prophecy. I pray that you are brave enough to watch all 25 episodes in this series 🙏🏼 ❤️! You can thank me later! But then whenever you have questions, watch the 24-hour live stream of Amazing Facts on Sundays at 7pm Pacific time, and you can call in and see if you can stump them but I know that you'll find nothing but truth from them. They're the only place that you can ask your questions live.
From Adan until that time? 🤦🤷. Why are these people famous?
What I am meaning by this is that if we all go to heaven as soon as we die how could all these people fit under the altar and then it would beg the question why would they be under the altar if everyone went to heaven or he'll as soon as they died. I obviously didn't explain myself well here at all!
Thank you! You guys help me. I needed to hear that!
Praise God and happy to help!
The interpretation of the spirits of the martyrs in Revelation needs to be made such that it does not contradict the plainer verses in scripture which describe the state of the dead, viz. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6; 9:10; Psalm 115:17. The pastor speaking in the video is allowing his interpretation to contradict those passages.
He is not familiar with the Study of Tabernacle/Sanctuary, can't blame him for that, hope he will see clearly now.
Good point Deonte re alter in heaven.
Hebrews 7:13
They are stuck under AN alter but I dont believe its a comfortable Christian alter and the fifth seal is most likely " the five" and those persecuted for watching. It says a heavenly alter but there are many levels of heaven and some are occupied by demons.
Are we God that we would hear the blood crying?
Beware Brethren, when you declare that parts of the prophetic picture in Revelation is symbolic, you must tread very carefully. The souls under the altar may very well be symbolic, but there may be other reasons why the Holy Spirit gave these words for John to write that we don't understand yet.
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I've heard many fellow SDAs say that most of Revelation is "symbolic" and then proceed to wrongly interpret it according to their biases.
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Just be careful, and God bless.
Do you think the Holy Spirit gave the words or did He inspire John? There is a big difference. 2 Peter 1:21. John wrote what he saw. Rev. 1:19.
Blessings.
This is the folly of the SDA brethren. For this reason their eschatology is not completely correct.
Laodicea must wake up to the reality that it is utterly wretched, poor, Naked and blind. And buy from Yeshua that which is needed to cover this nakedness and come out of its lukewarmness.
Hopefully many will heed
That which happened here on earth is symbolic of what is in heaven. But ye say that what is in heaven is symbolic of what is on earth. Then what is the TRUE picture. That which is here on earth or that which is in heaven?
You don't make sense because you force heaven to be mundane and physical.
Ye insist on blindly seeing with physical eyes that which is higher and above the physical realm.
@@PrairieChristianOutreach Prairie, "He who is the father of lies, blinds and deceives the world by sending his angels forth to speak for the apostles, and make it appear that they contradict what they wrote when on earth, which was dictated by the Holy Ghost. These lying angels make the apostles to corrupt their own teachings and declare them to be adulterated. By so doing he can throw professed Christians, who have a name to live and are dead, and all the world, into uncertainty about the word of God; for that cuts directly across his track, and is likely to thwart his plans. "
1858 Great Controversy p176
@@earlysdabut you don't have the holy Spirit . and that information at the bottom.. where you put down the location,, of the writing ,,of your false prophet.. that's not Bible!
Commenting on John 14:1-3. We are not going to Him, He is coming for us
He is coming for us, then taking us with Him.
You would think that the object for any Christian would be to get to heaven. And if we are to believe that these souls are in heaven. Then why are they not content to be in heaven. I mean there is a beautiful city in heaven, river of life, tree of life, streets of gold, the company of holy angels, Enoc, Elijah, Moses, and other Saints to commune with. And open communion with our Triune God. And still they are not happy.
Interesting point 🤔
You ask a question that the scriptures isn't teaching about in this particular passage. What it is showing is that the souls of those who have died as soldiers of the word are asking Yehovah when will he avenge their deaths.
But why are they not content to be in heaven? Because they have yet to receive the reward of their works. And a "living Soul" isn't a complete soul without a body. The promise of Yehovahs word isn't to keep us in a spirit state but to creat us a new body. One that will not decay. That is part of the rewards for our labours.
Yehovah made us with a body(one that we destroyed by sin) you forget that we are different than the angels?
So as the reward for our perseverance our believing in the Messiah Yeshua we will receive the glorified different body that Yeshua was the first to receive. Incorruptible.
That is why the souls of all righteous will stand with the righteous living on that day when Yeshua returns to gather his people from all the ends of the earth and be given that glorious body along wirh the living.
The heavens are not made up of more than one level? What does Paul say?
The souls under the Altar is reserved for only those killed for the word of Yehovah not all saints. For those there is a place called Abrahams bosom or paradise as Yeshua himself taught.
Oh, implying that they "are not happy" is something that you want scriptures to say? Or it's just something that you thought and want scriptures to be in contradiction?
Or is it because you want that question to support the doctrine of soul sleep which is erroneous
@@ednadiaz4193keep it up Edna you're telling the truth they don't like the truth
100% agree with your point!!
@@MaryMartinez-lm5tv sister, I've noted that one if the commentators said that what you were saying was according to what the Catholic church teaches which is nothing but traditions.
They fail to realize that in the Jewish beliefs there is too a wide range of beliefs concerning death, state of the dead and resurrection.
What I believe in presently has not been without much prayer. I was brought to my knees. And broken in my prideful spirit. I have been forced to listen to my son's last words before he died. "Mom, please tell the people that We are not dead." He said that 3 times.
Over and over again I pondered these words. It was never, it is NOT in line with my SDA upbringing.
On the day of my son's death I cried to Yehovah to please help us. He has been True and that is why I now share what I share because he answered my prayers.
I've learned much but I've never been able to write or articulate what I've learned till now.
I've fully understood what Jeremiah 16 and Romans10- 11 mean.
And my heart is Hopeful that my fellow brother and sister in Yeshua will hearken to his call.
How did Paul leave his body and went to heaven, then returned to his body, to tell about his experience. There is a big difference between the body, soul and spirit which makes up a complete human being.
That was simply a vision.
How convenient.
@@JohnSmith-ge1kuPaul literal tells us in the first verse that it is a vision before explaining the vision.
2 Corinthians 12:1
It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to *visions* and revelations of the Lord.
Jesus spoke of Paradise to the believing thief, as a literal place where he will be with him, Jesus.
@@JohnSmith-ge1ku Jesus didn't go to Paradise that day. Read John 20:17. It says He hasn't yet ascended to His Father. That was the 3rd day after speaking to the thief.
The comma was misplaced in translation. The original language had no comma. The proper understanding, taking into consideration the rest of scripture and the fact that Jesus said He didn't yet go to the Father 3 days later, is that Jesus was promising that day that they will be together in Paradise when the time comes when all the saints will be there.
Aventist Defence League, you believe Enoch is in Heaven right ? Here the word of the LORD: Jude 1:14 clear up the saints under the altar of the book of Rev 6:9 is coming with Christ to judge the world. Stop use the word symbolic because it don't fit your narrative and accept the truth. God is not mocked repent.
Yeah but the SDA confession of faith is the devil does their atonement Leviticus 1610. Written in the investigative judgment. They have to say that's the truth to be a member of the club! So absolutely nothing they teach in Prophecy is true including what we're talking about! Why would this be a surprise!
So true my brother.
Ellen White is their god.
They mix up the Holy Spirit with soul, soul with the spirit and vicey vercial.
@@JamieElison
"The devil does their atonement". Really? How many times must this be explained and addressed before you listen?
ADL, let me clear up Psalms 115 : 17 or should I use your words symbolic. Here the revelation if you die as unbelieve you can repent, that what is the interpretation of the scripture.
Psalms 115:17
The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
That is pretty straight forward. If you're dead you don't know anything. You are unconscious.
I think it would be horrible for a loving God to leave His children under the alter screaming! This is symbolic! What kind of a God do you think our Father is?
Hebrews 12"23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
The spirits of just men made perfect is talking about God's people, and not about dead souls.
Earlier in the chapter human beings are called spirits in their relationship to God.
Hebrews 12
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
So the spirits of just men made perfect are mature Christians who are a part of God's kingdom and have access to the throne of grace, as we all have.
Hebrews 4:
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
@@thatnicekid04 None of those verses even points to what you are saying.
@@user-yw3eq7iz4w who do you believe the spirits are referring to in Hebrews 12:6-10?
@@thatnicekid04 I believe what it says - the spirits of the firstborn aka the great cloud of witnesses
@@user-yw3eq7iz4w read more carefully what spirits are being referred to in verses 6-10.
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Read the books the visions of Paul and the apocalypse of Peter, you will find out how wrong you are.
ADL stop be the wise and prudent.And be the babe that things can reveal to you.come of the physical and ask the Holy Spirit to reveals the truth to you. Why you believe in eternal life and not eternal torment? Something been anniliate can't be tormented. Is the New Jerusalem is symbolic also? The Heaven and Earth will be destroyed is symbolic also?
Was the death of Lazarus and the rich man symbolic? I think not!
Yes it was. Abraham's bosom is not that big. A tip of water on a finger can't quench thirst in flames of fire. The dead know nothing. It starts off the way other parables start in the book of Luke by saying "A Certain Rich Man". Jesus said in Matthew 13 that people aren't given to the fire until the end of the world.
It's definitely a Parable.
I presume that this event was fictional too.
@@JohnSmith-ge1kuit was a Parable. Look up what a Parable means.
There is a lesson behind each Parable.
@@thatnicekid04who gave you the right to determine it to be a parable! when He doesn't tell you that it's parable!
100% when you know the bible and have studied it enough especially Jesus sayings you will definitely know is a parable.
That which happened here on earth is symbolic of what is in heaven. But ye say that what is in heaven is symbolic of what is on earth. Then what is the TRUE picture. That which is here on earth or that which is in heaven?
You don't make sense because you force heaven to be mundane and physical.
Ye insist on blindly seeing with physical eyes that which is higher and above the physical realm.
Ye must not be so arrogant and dare to say of Yehovah that he cannot possibly have Souls under the Altar whuch is in heaven. Who of you has acended to heaven.
Teaching only half of Revelation and interpreting it to your convenience is against Yeshuas word
Plus your translation of "Signified" is incorrect.
There are other translations has the word "MADE KNOWN".
Revelation 1:
1 The Hisgalus [Revelation, Appearance, Exposure of what is Nistar (Hidden), Sod (Secret), Raz (Mystery)] of Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua/Yeshua [Zech 6:11-12; Ezra 3:8] which Hashem gave to him to show to his mesharetim (servants, klei kodesh, ministers) MAH DI LEHEVE (" what will happen," Dan 2:28f), the things which are destined to take place, and speedily; Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach made it known by sending his malach (angel) to his mesharet (servant, keli kodesh, minister), Yochanan. [AMOS 3:7]
The word used for signified in Revelation 1:1 is sēmainō (G4591).
This is the same word the scriptures used when foretelling the death that Jesus would have...
John 12:
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
Clearly when Jesus said He would be lifted up from the earth He meant He would be on the cross.
The same word was used when Jesus described the death that Simon would die...
John 21:
18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.
This is consistent with the book of Revelation. Many things in the Book are symbols that point to a reality.
Revelation 1:1 uses the words sent and signified. They are different words. Signified is consistent with the symbols in the Book of Revelation.
🙏
@@thatnicekid04 saying , Making KNOWN
I shared from the Orthodox Jewish scriptures and it clearly shows that that Yeshua MADE KNOWN by showing to John what was to be for the end of ages.
If you wish to continue with your interpretation of Scriptures as meaning symbolic then that's your choice. Scriptures are clear.
@@ednadiaz4193 do you really believe this was literal and not symbolic?
Revelation 1:16
...and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword...
So you really think Jesus has a sharp sword coming out of His mouth? Or is this a symbol for something?
You showed me a translation based on someone's Hebrew translation. I showed you how the word signified was used to represent symbolic things in other places of scripture.
Either the Book of Revelation is filled with symbolic things or everything is literal. I will not agree with you that it is all literal. When things are not consistent with the rest of scripture, or reality, it is symbolic. The meaning of all the symbols in Revelation is consistent with the rest of scripture.
@@thatnicekid04 you will not agree because it goes against your teachings.
I've already shared my beliefs on this subject about Yeshua having a sharp sword coming out if his mouth.
You want to say he has a 'literal' sword coming out of his mouth? Fine with me.
He has a sword coming from his mouth? YES
But it is NOT a of this world material sword. That is your mistake.
You fail to see the spiritual realm with your mortal eyes. You cannot. You have to have spiritual eyes to understand.
Just because John was faithful in his description to understand and put what he saw in words so that we can see and understand and visualize doesn't mean that we should try to interpret things which are spiritual and True as just being symbolic. In heaven those things are very real. What was symbolic of what John saw,Yeshúa TOLD John that it was symbolic.
"You showed me a translation based on someone's Hebrew translation"
You showed me someone else's translation too brother. You also shared with me someone else's comparison of the words.
In regards to Scriptures must I remind you that it is the Jews/Israel who has been the keepers of Scriptures. Including the New testament. It is from Jerusalem that the Law of Yehovah goes forth not the other way around.
While the New testament we have only the Greek texts that were used for our present day translations it doesn't mean that that part of Scriptures were not written in Hebrew.
There is evidence of The Gospels being in Hebrew. All the Apostles were Hebrew soeaking. They wrote Scriptures in Hebrew and then they were translated to Greek.
Those fragments of Scriptures that are found of the Gospel of Mathew in Hebrew show that there is a very gross mis translation of Yeshuas words in certain verses.
It is time that we go to our Jewish brothers and sisters and learn from them to get an even better understanding of what Scriptures mean. See it from the perspective of a Jew/Israelite and not from the perspective of a gentile as it has been for so long .
Yehovah said this of the children of Israel(I'm not quoting exactly) I will provoke you with a nation without understanding (see Deuteronomy 32) since Moses time he foretold that he would use gentiles who have no clue what Yehovahs words are/mean but the fact that he would show himself/make know his name to them but they wouldn't have complete understanding of his word.
And Paul when he wrote about the Gentile believers being conceited he quoted from Moses. Thus he was addressing both his fellow Hebrew brothers and the gentiles see Roman 10-11
Stop being a conceited gentile believer who has been grafted in and reach out to your brothers and sisters in Israel. You lack half of the picture. It's time to find the other half. We are not having too much time left to prepare and put on the full armor of Yehovah.
@@thatnicekid04it's you and the devil's job to destroy the word of God that's all you've said
Is it possible that 98% of the bible is symbolic according to SDA?
You guys, Catholics, really like making up stuff, huh?
Again the power of biblical verses jumping and passage butchering 🎉
From what I am hearing, to argue that SDAs claim the 98% of the bible is symbolic is totally inaccurate deceptive and misleading.
The hosts are not butchering the bible, but pointing out the differences between symbols and what is not.
One needs to know what is symbolic language from what is not. The bible will interpret itself and to achieve a proper interpretation of scripture, you need to search the scriptures.
It might be helpful to study how and why apocalyptic literature is written.
@@PrairieChristianOutreach
It's also helpful if you study how protestants tend to twist scriptures like Martin Luther
No matter how you can try to twist the word of God, it can not change the fact that those who die in Christ their souls go to heaven to be with the Lord, and denying that is heresy.
There is no twisting of scripture in saying those that die, wait in the grave until the second coming. My friend you would do well to make a study from Gen. to Rev. and see just what the Bible says on the subject of death.
@@billhendricks5375 it's the body that waits in grave not the spirit dude.... haven't you read the story of Samuel and the story of Lazarus and the rich man?
@@ConfusedBeach-fw2cc you lack understanding of the Bible, what is a soul?
@@justoker4275you lack understanding of what is a living Soul that is under this sun on this earth.
@@justoker4275 I know what I'm talking about dude, it's you who lack understanding.... the Bible is very clear about this matter! The SDA theology about the state of the dead is laughable.
I see the devil's right hand men are at work..( destroying the word of God once again!!! Like John 8:44 says you can't help but do exactly what he wants you to do.
I hate that you are so lost. Praying for you.
She told you truth who are you going to pray to you don't have the Jesus of the Bible!@@dontfeedthepirates
@@JamieElison
So funny you said “she told your the truth” knowing you and Mary are the same person. 😂
@@justamessenger4577 no Mary has her own account. And I have two other account you got to stop spreading false witness! It doesn't matter anyway. You have no credibility technically you don't exist you can't get to 1844 with 2300!. But I can access hers if I want to! But I have to ask!
@@justamessenger4577 no she has her own account ..and I have two others.. but it doesn't matter for you, anyway. you can't get to 1844 with 2300 .technically you don't exist! By the way my name is not Jamie. I don't use my name for computer names is that okay by you?