Why you Shouldn't Buy The EOS M5! Review after 2 Months
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- Опубликовано: 14 июл 2024
- After 2 months of use I talk about why you shouldn't buy the the M5!
G85 on B&H➡ bhpho.to/2lyeF4e
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G85 on B&H➡ bhpho.to/2lyeF4e A6300 on Amazon➡ geni.us/stVCIY XT-20 on B&H➡ bhpho.to/2lyfmKX
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It took you two months to figure this out! thanks for the info I am now set on getting the M6 instead that flip on bottom is the deal breaker for sure
You're a imbecile!
Watched ''why I shouldn't buy the EOS M5'', then went out and bought the EOS M5...
Me too.
@@discoverzilla smart move. this guy is FOS.
This made my decision to buy a used M5.
Been using it for over a year, realized it's a great camera. I have 4 lenses for different needs, and I should say I have zero complaints with it and I actually love it. The battery is lacklustre but again, I have a couple of spare LP-E17 batteries bought for $25. Overall, I'm extremely happy I bought it.
Gentlemen,
I think this reviewer is paid by Canon because after watching his clip I was more convinced than before to buy this camera 😆
I love the M5! Is amazing!
IMHO If you lost the example material then you should reshoot it or just not do the video otherwise this is just a podcast and long-winded at that.
A good podcast though ;). I would have but had to send the camera back right after shooting this. We did grab a few clips of footage and will put some up soon.
I bought this for my other channel. Wanted it for run and gun, vlogging stuff. It's definitely not professional video quality but it's dead simple and ya can't beat the af. For what I need it for it works great and I think vloggers would love it. The video quality to me seems almost exactly the same as my 80d. I love the video quality of the a7s ii, a6500, etc., but I won't buy another Sony after I had multiple cameras overheat and their customer service was non existent. Don't care if they fix their problems, my stubbornness and principled mind won't let me touch Sony again.
Agreed. A6300, 4K - overheating issues, 1080p - terrible.
Video Stills Comparison: www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr29_0=canon_eosm5&attr29_1=sony_a6300&attr29_2=sony_a6000&attr29_3=sony_a6500&attr72_0=1080&attr72_1=1080&attr72_2=1080&attr72_3=1080&normalization=full&widget=456&x=0.25827789306640614&y=0.8282658529452244
Aloha.
Thanks for the review. Its always nice to see reviews after someone has used the product for a few months. Its always tough to fight that urge to be the first with a video and instead put out a better quality video a bit later. Great work.
Thanks Bart! We'll combat the urge with first look field test style videos.
Good idea!
As an owner of Canon lenses and a C100ii, I wanted to love it. Returned it after a couple weeks. Not sure if you covered this but one of the many annoyances (besides the important stuff like how the 1080 image is horribly soft) is that the remote app won't allow start/stop of video recording. Meanwhile, I picked up a GX85 for my daughter. That little guy is impressive, esp for the price!
GX-85: Not comparable for stills photography with compact Canon prime lenses, et.al., on APS-C 1.6x. Similar sharpness is not the same as similar overall rendering quality. This is a false equivalence, if you meant to imply that. I understand that online reviews do this constantly. Glad your daughter is having fun! -- m4/3 (now superfluous due to EOS-M system w/ primes); APS-C 1.5x & 1.6x; and FF DSLR & mirrorless
P.S.- "...horribly soft" video... REALLY?!
I have no problem with people hating this camera. And if I was buying my first camera I might not get it. But i have a bag full of Canon L glass and DSLR bodies and that just makes the decision a no brainer for me. I don't need 4K video yet but that will change soon. Canon will most likely have it in the next version which is about when i will be needing so that is ok for me. The camera is very capable in manual mode for people that know how to do this. The screen and flash are products of fitting everything into that small of a body. They should have used the 80d screen. Bad mistake. I could care less about the flash. They could have left it off. I think it is a more than capable camera for what it is intended to be. If you need 4k or better glass without an adapter go in other directions. I am selling off all of my Panny and Sony gear to focus on one manufacturer. i couldnt do that before the M5.
Thank You very much for interesting and very informative work. I wait for Your every new video and believe every Your word. There are a few person in RUclips, including You I believe. You always have the best video quality in Your episodes. But tell me the truth, do You experience any overheating problems with Your 6300/6500? And one more, what would You suggest to get for vloging GH5 or 6500? The main thing I ecxpect from camera is 4K quality. I'm going to preorder GH5, but every time after Your new video, I look the result You have with 6300, I doubt.
I still want this camera for 1 big reason: being able to adapt EF lenses. I am not a professional but having 3 amazing L lenses + a few great non L ones. I heard Sony or other brand can also adapt Canon EF lenses but I am sure they cant be as good. People say that will defeat purpose of having small mirrorless system, I dont think so. Just look at the size of Sony E mount G-Master 24-70mm or 70-200mm f2.8, they are same sizes with Canon ones. When I want it to be compact and light weight ( for traveling) then an Ef-m 22mm f2 and maybe a 11-22mm would be great. No 4K, no problem to me although I do shoot video occasionally. I dont have 4K LCD and my laptop might not be good to process 4K anyway :P. I am happy with 1080p 60fps. If I dont own any Canon lenses I might choose Sony, Fuji or Panasonic, they are great, but I just love my Canon lenses hence this camera will be perfect for me.
Stephen, in addition to the best image rendering EOS-M lenses (no keeper zooms), I have both the EF 24mm IS USM (in preference to the EF-S pancake or ANY Canon made wide-mid zoom) and the EF 28mm IS USM (for now -- the 28mm EOS-M IS macro just arrived in "new-other" condition for comfortably under 200 bucks).
Go compact primes, and do not fail to acquire a good copy of the uniquely practical, very well behaved (except for vignetting), broadly competent 11-22mm. Do not overlook the 28mm "macro" for best EOS-M IQ rendering at any distance: look carefully at Dustin Abbott's Image Gallery for this lens and note the 'roundness', 3D rendering, and micro-contrast details with minimal distortion (I'm lookin' at you, Sony and m4/3's!) and low aberrations from this stabilized featherweight.
Great review! Thanks for the informative discussion.
Thanks for watching!
I actually dropped my M5 hard, and it only got some minor scratching.
Great Video Max
I only wanted a little camera for basic vlogging and I upgraded my older Sony a5000 to the Canon and obviously the difference is a big upgrade and for me it's perfect for what I need
well said, can't wait for you XT20 review!
+jamesmcintoshjr it's being edited now.
You should check out the Sigma f/1.4 primes for Canon EF-M. I used to own a pair of 70Ds for weddings - stills and video. I was going to upgrade to 80Ds, but decided to go with a 77D, a 200D and M5. I wanted different things from each, but wanted the Digic 7 processors and 24 mp sensors so I could get consistency when making 3-camera movies. Worked like a charm 200D is for video only mostly, with 10-18mm STM, or Sigma 18-250mm for compact snaps camera.
77D was as close as I could get to replace 70D and get sensor and processor I wanted (80D has older processor and 90D wasn’t around then, but too expensive anyway). M5 gives me nearly everything an 80D will do but with compact lenses. The Sigma f/1.4 primes are awesome.
So that’s why I have an M5. Fantastic versatility especially on a Weebill S gimbal.
Hope you know that lots of people(me included) also appreciate brutal honesty in these reviews. It's way too hard to find these days.. Too bad it seems that many people also get very offended by that. Or maybe they already bought the camera and are not getting confirmation bias from this review - who knows.
Thanks! Most people don't understand that It benefits me more (from a affiliate sales perspective) to give good reviews so more people buy cameras, but I will keep speaking my honest opinion and experience even if a good bit of people get upset about it.
Oh ya! you will get a lot of that. Its AMAZING how much people will LIE or somehow justify for themselves a major downfall, or some feature issue JUST because they bought i. You see it on camera forums as well as car forums....no exception in car forums that people put down a large chunk for a lot of features in a upper trim. Taking a $30-40K car and put another 20-30K in OPTIONS! While something is cut back for cost, or some feature doesn't work as expected...Same with cameras....I have a few, and I am SO disappointed in the Sony A7RII in the field, yet love it in studio. While I LOVE my Canon 5D's and lenses in the field and I also like them in studio, BUT lacking AA-free and Mirror-less advantages. Canon is getting to be known as a feature horder, and just a money milker from its fan base. I am a long time Canon shooter, and I love Canons for their reliability and service, and it IS the camera for work, it sure as heck leaves MUCH to be desired in technological advancements. The 5D first came out, as well as the 1Ds, which I have paid dearly for the latter...They sure can hit a ball out of the park IF they want. Maybe its just one word.....G R E E D/?
Well, I own the camera and did not buy it for video. I have a 5D Mark IV for that. Also, I have the adapter so I can use all my Canon EF Lenses and I bought a EF 40mm for everyday use. I think it does a great job for us who are not Pro's and will never attain that level.
You can definitely get great photos out of it, as you can with even a T1i but I have to be subjective and give me honest opinions for those who are looking at different cameras especially those who only have 1 camera.
Giving value to users....this camera has dual pix focus, very fast n accurate- others aren't matching this and other features such as, high dynamic range colour, and canon CMOS technology.
I don't mind 4k video.
For build quality, I heard one review asking for NEMA 7 enclosure 😆
I love my Canon M5! Takes awesome photo and video too!
Was the video bit rate from M5 lower than M3? What lens did you use to make videos from it that you found were inferior to iPhone?
If the big problem is only with the lenses buy the canon adaptor and use the lenses you already have.
Exactly, I have 3 EF-S lenses and I have zero problems as I use them with the adapter.
Hey Max, have you tried the Sigma 18-35 or the 50-100 on the M5? I wonder how that would work with the EF to EF-M adapter. There is no info on it anywhere..
Nice review, I've enjoyed a couple of your other videos as well, you're very good at what you do. Still, I wish you could have spent a few minutes snagging even a couple samples around your office. You forgot about the M10, so that's 6 bodies, LOL. It came out just after the M3 and was worse than the original M according to DXO mark for low light - also 18MP. With the M3 I'm using the Mitakon 35mm f/0.95 and 22mm primes. The adapter seems to negatively effect the auto focus on the M3, I'd be curious if it's true on the M5 or M6. I think the sensor size (it's like a 1/10th of a mm smaller than the 80D), max shutter speed, crippled video (-headphone jack / levels controls) make this a rebodied T7i. Good news seems to be the used market offers these up at a tremendous value - canon will probably have it up for refurb by Cyber Monday. I totally agree about the 15-45mm lens, it's garbage, when you can tell on a 3" screen you're not getting sharp shots you know the lens isn't worth much more than a paper weight.
Would you recommend Canon M6 for vlogging? I need something thats good for Vlogging AND for high speed sports shots. I do adventure racing (sahara desert, amazon jungle) and want to catch the action shots and want to vlog using the same camera as size and weight plays a major role in my backpack.
I know how you feel. When I was in Bolivia, I took about 3 hours of video. I somehow left my microSD card in Bolivia to never be found again.
Canon is often accused of relying on their brand image and brand loyalty. Funny thing is, I think this becomes more and more true every year, as the gap between their perception and actual products keeps getting wider, while at the same time their competitors like Fuji and Sony have caught up and in most cases far surpassed them.
Exactly!
Somewhere around the 11:00 mark you mentioned the new kit didn’t have an included lens hood - I didn’t even know the old 18-55 did, because my M3, 18-55 Kit, and EF/EF-S to EF-M adaptor bundle didn’t come with one!
I learned a lot from this video. All my past and current cameras are almost all Canon (my current go-to is a GX5). I was highly considering this M5, but am now unsure.
Glad you liked it!
once i have eos m 1 gen and i can't use in studio photo with trigger. dont have lcd boost in the dark (kinda like a6000 "liveview on/off"). Do eos M after 1 gen have that option now?? thanks
So would the M5 be a good option now seeing there are more lenses to choose from and also it's cheaper than those mention?
hi max i love your channel !
anyway i wanna ask you, iam confuse between a6500 or g85 or wait for gh5 or xt2.
iam using it for daily vlogging/ run and gun. which one on your thought ?
DaysAfter24 the view finders of the Sony and Fuji will make vlogging difficult, u won't be able to frame yourself
Honestly I think the G85 would be the best bet for vlogging. At least that's what I would choose. If you don't mind a heavier or slightly larger camera GH5 will be sweet!
thanks for replied !i dont mind with larger camera. since iam coming from 70d. what about the g85 full hd mode ? i've seen its only record on small number of bit rate.
yes i think so the best bet is GH5 and 7-14 lens. what about a6500 ? does the ibis eliminate the wobble on 4k ?
No, you still have a lot of rolling shutter. Yes I think you're right GH5 with 7-14 and then a prime portrait lens for shooting closer stuff would be great.
yeah that would be sick it's available at 31 march here in my country. thanks max. waiting your next vid !
My Canon EOS M3, set up in a flash unit rig with a Rode Videomicro on top, has got to be one of the easiest video taking cameras there is. No 4K. No speed demon. But the colour and quality for 1080p is very close to a lot of what I've seen from Sony and Panasonic.
With the EF/EF-S EOS M Canon Adapter, my Canon EF-S 15-85 F3.5-5.6 IS USM and Canon EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM work flawlessly for video work, not too mention dead sharp. The video quality is vastly superior than my Canon 70D, and I would be very surprised if the EOS M5 wasn't an improvement?
I'll have to agree that Canon could of, and should of incorporated 4K in the M5, and the flip down screen is a big set back from the M3's flip up. Canon is obviously trying to avoid making the perfect all round photo/video machine for us consumers.
However, when I see and read all the disappointments with newer cameras over heating, short battery life, complicated menu systems, buggy slow lens adapters, outrageous prices for the newer lens...I think I'll hang on to my trusty Canon M3 which gives me:
- hours of trouble free heat related video shooting
-one battery for the day
-simple menu layout
-a lens adapter that works invisibly between lens and mirrorless body
-and an almost unlimited choice of quality and price when it comes to lens.
The LCD on the M5 should have been adjustable just like the 80D and then it would've been perfect.
I love my canon M5.
Glad you like it! You can definitely get some great photos with it! Enjoy!
Would you recommend i get a canon m5 or a canon t6 or t7? I will only be taking pictures, would really appreciate a response!
So what would you say is the best compact camera on the market with best quality? I currently have the sony a6k, but I can’t say I love it. I still prefer the quality that canon produces.
Do you think nowadays thee still a place for camcorder like AXP-55? Who will benefit from it? Is it better to get something like a bridge camera, Sony RX10? Do you think Sony I'll still going to release new camcorder? Or they waiting for the 4K 60fps to be mature?
Did you try it with the sigma 18-35 1.8?
Olympia, Washington? Did you go to the Great Wolf Lodge?
Thank you max. I appreciate this review and your honesty. I know how reviews can have so much footage it's possible to lose some so no biggie. Thanks for cementing my affirmation that Canon really just doesn't give a f*** lol
Hi
First of all -thank you for great videos and content:)
I really like your videos!
...about the small choices of lenses:
If you buy the camera, at least where I´m at, you get the EF adapter included.
And it Should work the same as the "original" lenses.
I could see that it does something about the size of the "package" you should carry, but dont you agree that in general all the great(er) lenses are bigger.. so if you wanna up your game you are in a way forced to use bigger lenses?
So why is that a big problem?
Just a thought :)
Again, thank you for all the great videos :D
Thanks for watching. One big advantage of mirrorless is having a shorter flange distance which allows for a smaller size lens. Take a look at the 22mm F2 lens its tiny! Lenses can still be really high quality but smaller and lighter compared to lens designed for a DSLR system. My biggest point is if you don't mind adapting larger lenses, you can do the same with a higher feature camera that costs less like the G85 or A6300, and autofocus is quite fast too.
Gh5 and G85 autofocus is not there yet. A6500 is higher priced and the screen does not compare. A6300 Missing touchscreen and both Sony get hot. I have seen the quality of the M5 video work better with the new STM lenses and lots of other reviewers claim that the there old Canon lenses work great and there using this camera as the portable extra camera. I just wish if they didn't want to do 4k they should have at least gave us 1440p 60fps as it's becoming more of a standard in phones and computers and tablets.
TechPimp
This is the review sum up....
Thanks for the review. Just curious if the poor video quality is actually caused in part by the softer kit lens. As some one else asked, did you use any better glass on the camera? Some other reviews I've seen said the video was good, so I was really surprised by your results. As you said however, the price for the camera is too high in my estimation, even if it did do video as well as the 80D.
Ken Best Yes I used some different adapted lenses. Maybe I'm just used to the Amazing 4K from Sony? If you saw the short section the iPhone 7 model 1080P looks sharper and more detailed than the EOS M5 (but a little bit more noise) and the 4K kills it.
This camera does not shoot same video as 80D
Yes they shoot same frame rate but that is where all similarities stop.
At 24 fps 80D shoots ALL-I 90 Mbps MOV and M5 shoots IPB 35 Mbps MP4.
Most reviews still claim IBIS on this camera, and we know that is wrong. Plus you have Canon sponsored reviews, like Fro and Scott Kelby.
Thanks for your honest assessment of the M5. As a long time Canonite, it's really sad to see Canon failing on so many levels. i recently read an interview with some of their top brass at CP+ and it was clear that they have no vision at all. Anyway, I see that you recommended the G85 as an alternative. I actually bought one for an event here on the island and I wound up returning it right after. I had the same complaint that you did about the M5's build. To me, the G85 didn't really feel like a $1k camera. It felt cheap and plasticky. Although weather sealed, I really wondered if it'd survive regular trips to the beach and trail.
I hate the fact that my G85 does not have Auto ISO in manual video mode. For me its simple. f1.7 and 1/50th and let auto ISO figure the rest out - but the G85 will not. Second the auto video focus is terrible. The A6300 had a great video focus but it would over heat after 12 minutes and the battery was just as bad. XT-20 only does a few minutes in 4K due to limitation and the A6500 is too expensive and still has usability issues. What is one to do ? Which is the perfect small travel camera. I was hoping the M5 was it but after I played with it felt cheap and the EVF was not as good as the G85. Plus I got used to 4k now so nothing less will do.
1tekguy what about the Olympus M5 Mk II? It seems well built, weather sealed and stabilized.
one thing missing. the articulating screen. For me that is a must.
Hey Max! I know this might be a bit of an odd video request since both of the cameras I'm going to mention have been out for over a year, but what do you think of making comparison video between the Canon M5 and the Panasonic G85? I would really like to see side by side comparisons of their videos/photos. And since there isn't one single video on RUclips doing this I think it would definitely be worth your time! The cameras are roughly priced about the same, and appeal to similar markets so makes sense to compare them. I'm asking you since you've done very informative reviews on both cameras (so I'm assuming you own both) and because you are, in my opinion, the best RUclipsr at comparing cameras! 😀 Cheers!
My bad, turns out you haven't even done a full review of the G85 yet! This is another good reason for this comparison, since you haven't shown any photo samples of either of these cameras in your videos, making a good opportunity to showcase their photo capabilities. A video quality comparison would also be interesting but I understand if you don't want to do that since you've already shown a lot of G85 video samples in previous videos. I leave it for you to decide, but please do this, I need your help deciding between the two! 😅
Note that I do know you consider the G85 better for video, but my request is that you do an all-round comparison, in which stills quality takes part as well.
Bump
The lens adapter is a very useful feature as you'll have access to all Canon lenses in which if you already have Canon lenses you don't have to purchase the same focal lengths for the M5.
The whining complaints about Canon's well made, dead simple pass through adapter are beyond ludicrous, kanehi. A tantrum in a tea[or crack]pot. $49 or so on eBay, the last I looked. I have two, and certainly did not pay that much.
Agreed! A 28mm FL cropped to effectively "wide-normal" on APS-C (1.5x or 1.6x crop) is something I personally find more useful than the typical "35mm FL normal" for APS-C... e.g.
Max you got balls bro, youre giving your honest opinion but on Yt that opens the door to lots of hate drama. I dont judge you either way I shoot lumix but it seems to me there may come a time when channels need to turn off comments. by the way practice some Kung Fu in case Canon sends Ninjas your way lol. respect
Haha thanks!
With the time it took you complaining about loosing your memory card you could have just taken some pictures...
Thanks for the informative review. Why do you think the price will drop hundreds in the next few months? Have you seen Canon do this or is it more of a wish? Also, your review of the flimsy feel of the camera body worried me, is it poor quality or just made with strong light weight materials? Does it feel flimsier then the M3 or M6? Seems odd for a more expensive camera. I was thinking of getting one so thank you for your review.
+Roger Leventhal thinner and more flimsy plastic. They dropped the prices like that on the m1 and m3.
Wonder if the sharpness issues of the video is due to the kit lens?
You shouldn´t say "this thing", while showing two cameras that look the same, but refer to it with it´s name.
How long can you shoot for before it overheats or dies?
Logic is broken in the video but even in early 2019, I decided at a big cost savings, to order the M5 over the 80d or the M50. Should be a significant upgrade over my first generation 7D
I trust your judgement on these things. I guess this is a vlogging camera?
Just purchased this camera on EBay the other day ... watched tons of videos on this camera before making the decision to buy...while some mentioned the soft video and lens shortage, no others disappoved the camera .. I watched lots of sample video and stills and was very satisfied with what I saw .. I own the 80d & 5D MkIV...really don't think Im gonna be disappointed at all ... in fact, this is really the only negative review I've seen only and I just came across it after the purchase ..pricewise, I tend to always buy used so I found it for $329...looking forward to getting it soon..definitely get tired to carrying that 80d & 5DMkIV around for everyday stuff
Give me the ergonomics of the X-T2, the AF of the M5, the video quality of the A6500 and the stabilization of the E-M1 Mark II. Can it be that hard? ;-)
I know right!
...And 72 virgins plus harp music after I die, as well. Can it be that hard? ;-)
C'mon, Nikon, get with it. And P.S.- Much smaller AF-P lenses that MF well and do 'micro-contrast', too, please!
just a small "fun fact" why canon didn't release an "m4" ---> 4 in japanese sounds similar to "death", which traditionally makes it an unlucky number ;)
The difference between the flip down and flip up is huge for vlogging and selfies. It would be worth doing a video for people who want to vlog while constantly monitoring. The flip up is almost as not as good as a screen that flips to the side.
I do think you don't like canon... but you also right .....canon is falling behind...
so i'm someone who is just starting up making youtube videos and vlogging. right now i've been using my iphone 6s+ but i really want to invest in a camera. being a college student, i don't have a budget to spent thousands of dollars on a camera especially considering that this would be my first and i would later buy others. any suggestions on which camera i should start off with?
Yes. By far the best camera for the money is the G7. Shoot in 4K, if your computer is slow convert to another codec before editing like ProRes if you're on a mac or Cineform if you're on PC (GoPro's free codec using their free converter) and your editing will be easier. Search "Max Yuryev G7" and you'll find some comparisons of it to $3000+ dollar cameras, its amazing for the money. amzn.to/2n10EOJ
I just sold my GX8 and bought M5 with 22mm and EF adaptor. I agree about the material.The camera feels really cheap. But overall I am happy with it.I can use my EF lens and the AF is fast and accurate. PAring m5 with 50L is real fun to shoot. The photo IQ is much better comparing to GX8.The VDO is good enough for me. The focus peaking is useless for me comparing one with Pana GX8. Now I'm thinking about getting the 28m Macro.
My advice, Art: get it. See my response to Stephen Dang above.
Video banding mentioned was possibly a result of the lighting vs the framerate. The higher the framerate the more you will see banding. It happens with other cameras too. You will notice there is no banding with sunlight. If you are indoors comparing video between cameras, make sure the frame rates match.
Oh yea, I do know what you mean. It wasn't verticle banding like with fluorescent lights but horizontal banding between gradations of colors. Too much compression to the video. As some have mentioned in the comment even though its the same sensor and autofocus as 80D the video is more compressed.
With other cameras the banding I've seen from LED lighting rate is also horizontal. Gradient/compression banding would be evident in outdoors shots too. The online samples of outdoors M5 video don't seem to show it though. Have you selected a higher compression setting or lower level codec by any chance?
Nice review
Sub done guys
I've been waiting for a good mirrorless Canon but it looks like I'm going to continue waiting because I'm not going to get one just based off that terrible LCD placement when flipped out. Wow!
This camera doesn’t have 4K but still shoot pretty decent on 2.7 HD and for photography absolutely stunning I can prove that I didn’t lose my sd card 😂 with an adapter you can put any of the canon lenses on it and turn it into a beast
No question Sony changed the mirrorless world big time with their new line up but still canon has better lenses and colors and this camera rocks in the right hand just like every other camera
The original M with Magic Lantern is probably better than this camera except for auto focus. The only issue is that on some cameras, the camera would not recognize the 18-55 kit lens, it was corrected with the latest firmware update but upgrading the firmware renders magic lantern useless because it doesn't work with the latest firmware. I had to roll back the firmware and have a useless kit lens...I might have an M and M3 with viewfinder and the pancake lens + the 18-55mm lens for sale soon!
Up till today, I have had two M3 cameras and one M5. They produce good pictures and as with all decent cameras, I recon that it is my own ability that sets the limits, not my equipment. Ms are great for travelling, a full lens lineup and two bodies fit into a small bag. Light, comparatively cheap, which can sometimes save a lot of worries. Another thing that I appreciate, but many reviewers fail to mention is that the lenses focus really, really close.
One can also use manual vintage and third party lenses via adapter with very good results.
However, with that being said, the reason why I am on my third Canon M and just purchased the Fuji XT-20 is that two of my Canons broke down within just few months from the purchase. I am taking good care of my gear and never seen this failure rate before. Ms seem really awfully fragile, which is why I would very much hesitate to recommend them. Also, both M3 and M5 have a variety of easily reachable, in my humble opinion completely useless automatic shooting settings. If one loves pure auto modes that produce barely mediocre jpgs, there is no need to pay that much for a camera. On the other hand, all the handy settings for advanced users are buried deep in the menus. This makes the camera really hard to use compared to the Fuji mirrorless.
Great review! I think you're the first to really point out how kinda 'bad' this camera is.
ps.
I just bought myself an x-t20! Planning on doing a review too and hoping I can do nearly as good of a job as you. Too bad I have no equipment at all besides the x-t20.. but I'll make stuff work out somehow.
By the looks of it, the DR of the M5 sensor is considerably behind the 80D according to DxOMark. The 80D has 13.2 Evs and M5 has 12.4 Evs which is a real shame. Like you, I assumed it would have the 80D sensor but it appears not.
I own the Canon EOS M5 and use the Canon Adapter so I can use my Full Frame Lenses. It serves as a camera I can take to work or an urban alternative to my 5D Mk IV. I own 3 Olympus Mirrorless, Pen F, M5 Mk II and M1 Mk II. Yes, I am looking to sell off 2 of the Olympus (Pen F, M5 Mk II) very soon, once I get to a local camera store to trade for something else or just for store credit. Yeah, I might be an digital photography addict. Nice review.
The advertising that I saw quite clearly showed that it was not the same stabilization as Olympus. You could say that the build & lenses keeps it closer to the original aim of mirrorless than the competition to which you refer. The Sony system is built on using adapters to fit DSLR lenses onto a tiny body & exactly how many lenses does Sony have designed exclusively for the APS-C sensor? The entire market is overpriced not just this camera. Yes you do seem to be a just a bit anti Canon just like Tony. I am mostly Nikon myself & I don't own a 4k TV & don't know anyone who does!!
Most still don't have 4K but you don't need a 4K to enjoy the benefits or start shooting in 4K or uploading. If you go to Best buy most TV's are now 4K, and you can get a decent 55" 4K for $500 bucks now. Keep in mind you can get an a6000 with very similar sensor performance as a6300 (better than EOS M5) for $600 new and the 1080P will be better. Last time I counted Sony had 11-12 of their own APS-C E-mount lenses (not counting kit lenses) and then Zeiss had 4-5 with full autofocus support and Sigma makes about 5-6 great priced fully functioning lenses. (the 30mm 1.4 is phenomenal and for only $339). I do complain about them no having a 24-70 and 70-200 F2.8 equivalent but they do have much more options than NX mount.
There is 16 APS-C Sony lenses plus 2 adapters (UW and Fisheye). There is 3 Zeiss, 1 Tamron 4 Sigma AF lenses, and many manual lenses with E mount.
Sony A6000 has a few more lenses but nothing special as well + they are more expensive. A 50mm f1.8 STM with Adapter is quite small as well on the M5. Fuji may have small sharp lenses but they are way more expensive and not affordable for the average user. Micro Four Third is maybe much better for video but the video autofocus sucks and to be honest the image quality for stills can’t match the image quality of an APS-C sensor.
How is the octane doing?
Good review. I agree the video quality is not good. The Panasonic GH4 would be a great consideration for someone on budget (but wants better quality than the M5).
NOT better -- not nearly equivalent -- in overall image quality & rendering for stills, not even at base ISO. If all you are serious about with respect to IQ -- possibly -- is in the video realm, then why not state your bias a little more clearly up front? Or buy a Red. Using real cameras for stills has NOT been made obsolescent by smartphones, though reading through threads like these might make one who doesn't know better think so. Keep in mind, the channel master here posited a blanket, click bait polemic. I wonder which camera Cartier-Bresson would have thought "better"?
Let's not shovel six more feet of dirt over Timothy O'Sullivan, Ansel Adams, and Robert Adams, when he goes, quite yet.
But I wouldn't dispute that a GH-4 would be worth considering for someone with your own set of biases. I prefer, and have far more use for, stills, myself. Bias stated.
Frederick J. Hey there, I’ve read your reply over a few times, but still don’t understand your point. Are you agreeing with me? I’m lost here. Lol.
Several things have put me off buying an EOS M5 (and I'm a former Canon T2i owner). First amongst these is price. The body alone sells for $1250.00CDN. With a 18-150mm lens, the price jumps to $1700CDN. That's a lot of scratch for a camera that doesn't do 4K or offer anything more than 35mb/s AVCHD video. My Sony a6000 shoots 50mb/s XAVC-S with a free firmware upgrade, and I picked it up for about $800US when the Canadian and US dollars were trading at par, which made it a hell of a great deal.
The next thing that turned me off the M5 is image quality. Looking at image samples from the M5 over at Imaging Resource, I could see that they weren't as crisp as the ones coming from the a6000, even though the resolution of the two cameras is roughly the same. And yes, I was doing some pixel-peeping.
I have not checked out the M5 vs. the A6000 at IR as yet (I just scored quite an 11th-hour deal on a twice used M5)... but if you look at the two mannequins plus "House Poster" carefully, it is pretty plain that the older M3 outpoints that Sony for differentiation of color tones on all my tablets (i.e., "more", with more nuance -- look at the flowers) and 'roundness' + 3D effect in the mannequins' "skin tones". As does the humble 20mp A5000. I'm not the first to note a certain crudeness in the older 24mp Sony sensor's rendering. It depends on what you can see and what you want.
DxO -- in their SUBJECTIVE 'perceptual megapixels' score -- certainly must agree with my perception, right across the board, comparing the same Sony lenses (all!), apples to apples, on the A6000 spec A5100 vs. the Target, Walmart special A5000! I own an A5000 'stripper' w/ LCDVF by choice, for MY limited uses, for these reasons.
If you're looking at the studio still life, then you can pick up a small 24mp vs. 20mp difference (maybe some tiny difference vs. the M5 -- ?)... but I assume that few of your shots are likely to occur under professionally lit studio conditions. And keep in mind that Canon's JPEGs are hit heavy with a not-so-sophisticated noise reduction algorithm: I prefer RAW + Topaz or AthenTech. What you will see as a deficit in the M3 shots is some crushing of highlight detail, in comparison. The M5 has better low ISO dynamic range 'on paper'... but IMO, Canon APS-C does still require more attention to exposing highlights than does Nikon APS-C, for example (I also have, for now, a refurb D3400 body for two of Nikon's AF-P lenses -- especially & specifically for -- that I presently own).
I do not know if the M3 might actually out-resolve the more up-to-date M5/M6/M100 DP models slightly or not; but I certainly have not seen anyone make that claim as yet. I'll get to checking this before I sell off my M3.
According to the rumors, the M5 Mark II is expected to be a mirrorless 90D plus IBIS. If it's true, that's the smartest thing Canon could do.
I don't know why Canon has long resisted the idea that mirrorless cameras can be professional tools, but I think they have recognized the error of their ways more recently with the EOS R series.
Here's hoping they bring that same new logic to the EOS M series.
This is funny, absolutely none of the things youre on about bother me in the slightest, it felt great when I handled it, not really interested in video, got 11-22, 15-45 and 18-150 why on earth would I need any more lenses? I use a 1DX for serious photography this is a superb camera for casual use I just don't see your problems with it. Don't like adaptors either so this is great with native lenses better than trying to use EF on another brand. worth watching anyway thanks
boom
Max, I really appreciate you but... You just bashed Canon and M5 for no reason. You guys yell everyday that the dinosaurs like Canon and Nikon don;t do anything to catch-up with mirrorless market these days. When they try (decent to very good try on M5 I'd say) you guys knock them down them with stupid arguments like: no lens line-up, high price....and so on. BUT, you just lost your SDCARD with the pics for your review....lol. I believe Canon deserves a thumbs up for trying and touching the base with their mirrorless. The M5 produces very good IQ even with those variable aperture lenses. I had the camera for 3 weeks tested for stills and it's great, small , easy to use, good IQ pics . Besides that you can adapt all canon lenses without ANY issues.
BTW when Sony stepped the path of mirrorless had 2 lenses, both kit lenses. After 6 years they have what...25?? professionally usable how many...15? Well do the math 5 lenses/year means 30 in 6 years...so maybe Canon will do a better job...just saying.
PS: I am Sony shooter, but I hate to see people bashing a product, no matter what brand, without having a solid point to debate.
I hate Canon cameras, I was a Nikon user all my life, switched to Sony mirrorless in 2015, went back to Nikon in 2016 and now back to Sony. So don't say it...'cause I am not!
All the best man, hope I didn't take too much of your time.
Love your content, appreciate your work but I had to say it...sorry ;)
Chris N.
Yes, all brand start out small with a new mount but it's been 5 years since Canon launched the EOS-M in Japan and just over 4 here in the states. If Sony did that well in 6 years that's not bad at all when Canon has 5 (or 7 including two versions of kit lenses). It's not a terrible camera, but for the price and lens selection compared to how strong the competition is doesn't fair to well. I own a M3 because at $450 for a new kit its a great value. If the M5 was $799 I would have a much easier time suggesting it but at over $1000 you have much more options. Yes, I did loose the car, but keep in mind I'm doing RUclips and testing out 3 different cameras in this month (E-M1ii, G85, M5) along with my other 5 cameras and doing pro video production. Lots of cards going all over the place and terabytes of footage being shot, transfered, and edited. This is the first time this has happened in my three years and hopefully my last.
Max You know better than anyone that M3 was considered a failure. That's why they didn't follow with M5 or any lenses for 4years. Besides that Canon is well known for their laziness. Let's just hope that the M7 will be on par with consumers needs and I believe they will also improve their M line of lenses. Let's give them a little more air. Like I said I hate their cameras but I would love to have more options on the market.
Btw I would like to see a short video with the pics and footage you shoot with m5 when you find that card. ;)
All the best
Chris N.
M3 launched about 1.5 years ago, so they haven't had too much free time. They have actually been steadily putting out M cameras but the M2 wasn't released in the U.S. We did shoot some footage after the review was shot comparing it to the iPhone 7 (1080P and 4K) in a variety of situations, so you'll see that on YT soon.
Oh yea competition is great! I really wish Samsung was still in the game. I will keep giving Canon a chance, but I will keep stating my honest opinion on the cameras.
Good to hear sir! That's why I am a subscriber! Keep up the good work man
Max Yuryev really gets off-track in opinion about few lenses in regards to defeating purpose if adding other DSLR lenses. Someone can easily mount the nifty fifty 50mm, the 40mm pancake or lightweight 135mm L lenses. Point being, this is a smaller body standing alone. But a pro could fit this as a 3rd tiny backup in a small slot easily. As for 4K ... few people need 4 K, but everybody needs photos. And the focus system in this camera for images is among the best. The 70-200 F/4 IS would also be a stellar addition to this M5. There's not tons of lens options, but plenty of lens options with the adapter. There's plenty of good primes that will work lightweight.
Max admitted he's 99% video-centric in these comments, thus thoroughly lacking any meaningful expertise to comprehend & appreciate your level-headed assessment, Mario. It really shows.
Again, the availability of practical, physically in-scale, high image quality, stabilized as-required, tiny to compact Canon prime lenses and a uniquely capable, 7-ounce 11-22mm zoom for the M3, M5, M6, or M100 is THE primary reason along with Canon's dependable, well-conceived and proven rendering 'formula' (for RAW, and JPEG snapshots) to buy an M5/M6 -- even a bargain M3, for some -- over any Sony APS-C camera offered at present... for the prices asked. Not to mention flexible, ergonomic controls + class leading touch screen. A camera for photographers... though disconcerting in its seemingly unnecessary functional shortcomings vs. an 80D at a not dissimilar price point.
Still, THE unique compact alternative. I will use the M5; A5000/LCDVF, Kinoptik or Elvid; or the nicely tweaked, new DxO sensor ratings lightweight champ Nikon (FWIW, of course!) D3400 -- NOT just a stripped back D3300 -- individually or in combination as a complement to FF... so your explicit point re: multiple body use is very well taken!
"Horses for courses", then. The M5 or M6/EVF just "fits" in a way the competition mostly does not.
The lack of lenses argument doesn't make sense for me. I'm not looking for these because of size or weight, if Canon had made the M5 double or triple the size I would not have been deterred so long as I get the features to go with that.
The adapters for Sony have painfully slow AF compared to using the adapter for M5 (which is only pass through, no protocol adapting which is what makes the ones to Sony, etc... slow). I agree that I wouldn't recommend it for someone just buying into the Canon system (nor for a video centric buyer), but indeed you hit the target group on the head. People like myself with a number of EF lenses that I would like to use them with mirrorless as well, but for the mirrorless rather than the size (... well the size for some buyers, but not myself). Sony price points bite you on the back in the lenses rather than the bodies.
A99II is the only tempting Sony for me right now.... but the use case for me goes head to head with my Canon DSLRs... where their better and cheaper offerings in telephoto primes (300 f/2.8 and 400mm+) rules the decision.
lol it happens dude been their thanks for video...
pro - most sensible button and dial layout I've seen from a camera. I mean, how hard is it allow us to assign iso/WB to a dial? Most cameras have you press a separate button to change iso value even if it means leaving one of the dials functionless. All you need is three separate dials for aperture, shutter speed/expo comp and iso, which most camera manufacturers just don't seem to understand.
con - I didn't mind the build quality. I wasn't expecting a pro camera. but what I didn't expect was the unusual shot-to-shot delay even when focus point is locked, which made the camera immediately sluggish. I personally think it's acceptable for a camera of this price range, and frankly am surprised this isn't mentioned by most 'professional' camera reviewers. Plus, m5 doesn't seem to auto correct lens distortion in real time, which I think is one of the major advantages of mirrorless design. My guess is all this is due to very weak image processing unit.
Bottom line - Ath this price/performance ratio, probably intended to be sort of a novelty item for existing Canon dslr users who are just happy to be able to use their lens.
* unacceptable, I meant
All the rest of the M series were like this. Good point I should have mentioned it, the Sony and Panasonic have less lag.
In the end I found the AF somewhat disappointing, didn't live up to NX1 level AF for birding... and that's kind of my preferred use case for it, M5+400mm f/5.6.
Dials were great.
Flash problems and bad shutter lag were also disappointing and put it behind NX1 for me. I don't care about the lack of 4k (didn't get it for video) and the adapter makes it perfectly compatible for me (I don't even own an M lens, all EF & NX in my bag). This adapter doesn't have to do any translation in the way that the ones to Sony need to, all it needs to do is pass through the signal.
Small flashes are too small for bounce anyway in 99.9% of my use cases, doesn't matter which way you point it.
Also disappointed that they went with powershot firmware instead of EOS... despite being clearly labelled as EOS. 1/4000 max shutter is a bit limiting as well.
I disagree with your plastics assessment.
Canon has the best custom modes, so nice that everything changes, that is an area where the NX1 irritates me a lot (doesn't store minimum shutter speed setting.... on the other hand that is missing entirely on the M5, which was also a major disappointment). Also had been hoping that Canon would bring the anti-flicker mode to a wider range of cameras.
Great review. Pass on the M5.
Did you ever find the card, Max?
Nope. I've looked over my 20+ cards multiple times and have moved offices since then. My guess is myself or my assistant (or wife) accidentally formatted it.
Good review. It could have been more concise maybe? Frist time I've seen one of your reviews and I like your thoughts on both stills and vid. But the part where you speculate about the materials? Do you have any actual info about this? One thing I noticed is that at the end where you rant about the poor selection of native ef-m lenses, you argue that one shouldn't use the ef adaptor but when it comes to the (eg) sony 6300/6500 it's absolutely fine. The argument is fine if you use it consistently. On a sidenote, I'm a M3 user myself and what I like most about the having a Canon body is the fact that I can adapt all ef and ef-s lenses to the M body. In all reviews I've seen nobody seems to get that the true power of the M body is the fact that you can put all Canon lenses on it. I agree with you that the size benefits decreases if you do but that's the case anyway if looking for really bright primes. Overall good review though, I appreciated your thoughts on it! Thanks!
I can't give any specs to the plastic, but being a previous owner of the original "M" and now the M5 there is a huge difference of feel when you hold both in hand. Like the difference when you're holding a $300 Walmart laptop and the plastic is thin and cheap vs a Macbook Pro or a high end Dell XPS. At the time of this review I own 5 cameras and has 3 in for review so Is easy to tell side by side. As far as lenses my argument is if you're coming from a Canon DSLR a huge point of buying a canon mirrorless is to have a small camera for convenience. Yes, the quality will be worse than your 5Dmk4 but the size makes it worth it. Now if there are not enough small mirrorless lens options you end up adapting your large glass and the system is no longer small and light, which is a big goal for many. Now if you're coming from that crowd with a large DSLR camera and you DON'T mind adapting lenses, then you might as well get a Sony body that has a better sensor and much better video. The canon lenses focus really fast for photos with the Sigma adapter so you won't be missing out there.
I have both Sony FF and APS-C + Sigma MC-11 and Novoflex adapters... AND M3, and now, M5, plus FF and APS-C Nikon DSLRs; and I dispute those claims.
The EF-M 11-22mm IS [+ Rokinon 8mm/2.8 & 12mm/2.0], 22mm/2.0 + EF 24mm IS USM, 28mm/3.5 1:1.2 IS macro, EF 40mm/2.8 STM pancake, EF-S 50mm/1.8 STM AF [+ Rokinon 50mm/1.2], plus 9.9 ounce Pentax D-FA 100mm/2.8 WR 1:1 macro + Kenko DGX 1.4x TC... not to mention an almost pancake-y Pentax FA 77mm/1.8 Limited, et.al., makes for a mix & match, "horses for courses", super compact, ultralight high image quality/rendering cityscape/landscape/nature kit unmatchable in the Sony realm for anything like the overall net cost, availability of lens stabilization and AF, as required; and minimum packable size & weight for the overall image quality rendered accompanied by photographer friendly ergonomics for stills photography or non-expert, Dual Pixel/STM AF assisted "good enough" videography & vlogging. My kit for APS-C applications, partial.
The 28mm EF-M macro is so good for lightweight kit landscape rendering and 'hiking out', I don't really miss the Zeiss 25mm ZS for overall eye catching rendering, as just one example; and I certainly don't miss lugging its one pound+ bulk along. Thanks to EOS-M.
Want to buy a sharp, but rather "meh" rendering, fix-after-the-fact-in-post Sony FE 28mm/2.0 in barely touched, pristine condition, 99% video guy? ;-)
This is what another internet expert here using a Tamron 18-200mm plastic superzoom refers to as a "just pathetic" lens selection for Canon M5 (and future iterations).
Q.E.D. Finis.
... And all you have to do to mimic the experience of a high end rendering Sony mirrorless set-up that gets some respect, Anders, is attach the EF 35mm/1.4 L II via the Canon adaptor, and there you have it -- instant G-Master clone: front-heavy heaven!
Ha, ha, ha... poor ICL market share dominating Canon... just about to wither and die like Nikon because they lack Sandy 90's (see three posts below) keen, perspicacious insight, lens appraisal chops, design expertise, and deeply rooted business acumen.
How DO the idiots at Canon manage to dress themselves and get to work, anyway?
don't need 4k video or lenses... I got the G7X mark II. simple. When it comes time to get with the times and upgrade I will. Heck, I'm still using my old 8 megapixel FZ30...
It's rarely wise to upgrade before you really need to. The strike-while-the-iron-is-hot second-hand bargains do come along now & then; but trying to out-think the market and making more than tentative, provisional 'predictions' about what you'll want a year from now, or even 6 months hence... is probably doomed to failure; or at least, to experiencing an unintended economic glitch. I should know. ;-)
future will it be EOS M7? better feature? i wonder?
If you can hold out, Tiffy, the EOS MXIV should be killer. Actually, Canon's marketing geniuses have now apparently decided that lower number nomenclature = "better". Thus, the new M100 is the "simple" 'smartphone' upgrade model. So maybe the hypothetical "pro" Canon mirrorless cams will be 'M-Pro 2' and 'M-Pro 1'!
Buying a lightly used M5 or M6, given their new all around competence, might be smart, irrespective of looking ahead some; since Canon's resale values have stayed remarkably high, IMO, over recent years. I did just that very recently (M5, after an M3). While the M3 is a bit more quirky in operation than one might hope, you could find a screaming bargain on one if you don't really require rapid, tracking AF. It's O.K. for the sort of pics most people take & post to enthusiast threads, most of the time, despite the hyperventilating online complainants who have never owned one.
Chasing around hyperactive rugrats not recommended for the M3, though. But almost nobody wants to see amateur "sports" photos, despite the hopefulness of some big spenders -- the pros using pro gear do it SO much better!
Meanwhile, you can patiently start searching out the bargain auction wins on the lenses you'll need. Do not pass up the remarkable and just tiny EF-M 11-22mm zoom. Nor the unique 22mm/2.0. A cheap, nifty 50/1.8 STM is about all you'd then need for a set to handle 90% of those subjects your keepers are likely to come from. Any of the middle FL M-zooms is of questionable utility, in my view, if you really care about image quality... given your great choice of moderate aperture, compact primes for an M5 which can get the job done so much better.
Don't pay more than $49 for the EF/EF-S to EOS-M adaptor, 'used'. The EF-S 55-250mm is simply dirt cheap these days second-hand for such an all around capable tele zoom. At about 14 ounces+, it's fine for adapting to the M5 or M6. I wouldn't count on a bargain M3 matching up as reliably with the adapter as do the Dual Pixel models, but it's still a doable thing.
You are probably right, though, that an even more fully realized APS-C mirrorless camera from Canon may follow the M5 next... sometime. Canon reps even hinted obliquely to that effect in an early, Canon sponsored M5 intro video here on RUclips. But I wouldn't bet that it will take a noticeably better picture.
So don't wait around forever. Life is short. But I agree with others that M5 and M6 prices still have some way to fall, though Canon does not seem to be big on Nikon-like fire sales. I just got an exceptional deal, so I stopped waiting it out. Good luck making your choices, Tiffy.
Look in the SD slot in the camera.
First, a side note: The lack of models numbered '4' in most Japanese companies' lineups is due to tetraphobia, common to a few East Asian cultures, where the name of the number is the same as the word 'death' ("shi" in Japanese). So quite naturally, no company wants their name associated with it (just think about it, "...introducing our new camera, the Canon M-Death!") .
Second, completely agree. Canon dropped the ball *so* hard with the M5's video. I understand that their DPAF sensor probably can't cope with the readout speeds and heat of 4K video, and honestly, 1080 is fine for a lot of uses. But! To justify a separate, large sensor hybrid camera, such 1080 footage needs to be great, with amazing color and low-light performance, and a modern, efficient codec. The M5 puts upscaled 720P out, and it looks like garbage!
Such a shame. Maybe in four more years Canon will finally make a killer M, plus the required enthusiast lenses.
Ildskalli while this is a commonly cited reason, canon also has the 5d4 and had a 1d4 so they clearly aren't avoiding the number altogether .
Most brands don't avoid if it's large enough, or if it's meant to be pronounced in English. In that case, "mark IV" is fine - but they still use Roman numerals for it, they're that superstitious ^_^
You lost the SD card? Did you try looking in the camera? hah.
Yes about 5 times or more LOL.
still going to purchase one. dont matta
wanting to go mirrorless I hired this camera for a week coming from nikon f/f I found the camera needed to use the menu a lot of the time and not enjoyable in anything other than auto it went back a day early ordered a fuji
Which one did you get?
Had to wait for it x-t2 worth every penny
Great choice its an amazing camera!
You missed out the M10 :) so that's 6
Even the defunct Samsung NX has bigger and better lens offer not to mention the NX1.
It is a shame that no other manufacturer did not take the system from Samsung to further develop it 😒
When we will see Sony RX10 IV and A6700/A7000?
Hopefully soon! I'm ready for an A7000.
Max Yuryev there's some rumor of new RX camera on SonyAlphaRumor for like months, but still not come out yet??? Why!??? Could it be RX1 RX10 RX100? Or RX1000?
More needed at this time is a Sony replacement for the A5000 with BSI sensor technology, stills & easy 1080p video -centric. A "stealth" enthusiast's APS-C FF-complement for landscapes and posed portraits... and not $900 with issues.
In my opinion the camera to buy is the GX85. Not the G85. If you don't need microphone jack and the flippable screen it's perfect. For 500 $ you get the stabilized sensor and 4k 100mbps in a small form factor.
I actually had two of them and they are pretty good. I think mic jack is really important for most people which is the biggest problem with that camera.
+Max Yuryev Yeah but it's the best bang for the bucks. but my true problem with Panasonic cameras is the bad dynamic range.. it's so easy to blow the highlights while retaining too little details on the shadows
+Max Yuryev Sony is on another level here
Max you show all those points, but not what the max. is for each categories.