Awesome video man....i think urs is the most informative...im a little nervous about using the plasti-gauge but it looks pretty straightfoward...ive just never used it before....
awaiting my new rod, look forward to finishing this part of engine build, and send head off to be milled, ported and polished with a stainless top end....
Gray Goat awsum vid. my question is would you recommend a predator 212 or 212 hemi for a mini bike for reliability point. would like your imput . thank u Nick
Thanks Nick! Either engine is fine. They are equally reliable and both will serve you well when properly maintained. It is claimed the Hemi may make more power out of the box, but I don't know that has ever been tested/verified. Either engine will respond well to upgrades. At the end of the day, it really does not matter! The Hemi gets the spotlight because we all saw Dodge commercials! LOL
Can I get a flywheel nut at Lowe's instead of waiting on mail? Love the ARC rods, once you get the 1/4 torque wrench, find the 1/4-1/4-12pt socket which is most likely 3/8 so get that short adapter, plastigage, a vise and whatever else you need it's a great rod. So really though, that flywheel nut at the hardware store? What size? I'm putting a list together and I always beat that sweet $150 for free shipping but just need a flywheel nut and a clutch bolt to test a motor this week. I'd order them from OMB but I'm afraid shipping will be more than it's worth.
That flywheel nut is M14 -1.5. I don't know that you will be able to find a serrated, flanged nut at a local hardware store. This is a critical nut and must be correct. I am not crazy about using a washer and a nut on this. The washers have loose tolerances on the ID and could possibly cause an unbalanced condition.
Great video, very informative! I had a question about a carbuerator, I was wondering if anyone can answer this for me as I can't find anything online. Am I able to put a predator 212 carb on a mega Moto 80cc engine? The bolt holes line up, but I have no way idea if it's going to be getting too much air and gas.
@stevenreese7746 Yup. I sure did. Somehow it still stripped. I ended up getting 6 point bolts from my local hardware store. Then my old ring compressor didn't wanna work and so I tried to use my fingers to compress the rings up until I bent two of them so now I need a new set of rings and a new compressor. The whole build has been a real headache honestly.
Not something I condone. I am a MiniBike guy and will not sit on one that is I ungoverned without a billet flywheel. My privates are important to me! A stock cam does not need 22# springs! It can use 18# springs. Heavier springs don’t make more power! They take more power to turn the engine over. Please consider a billet flywheel and get a bigger cam!
Does the rod have to connect at a certain point or degree around the crank? Basically if I’m installing and the crank moves, will it automatically move to the right location during operation?
Once the rod is installed and torqued it will remain in the same place and cannot change its orientation other than rotating around the crank. The crank will move the rod in different angles When checking the clearance it does not matter where the the crank is positioned. The journal is perfectly round!
@@TheGrayGoatGarage I guess what I meant is, is it possible to install the rod incorrectly (at the wrong position) and affect timing? Or as long as it is installed tightly, it will be fine?
@@jaredgordon1903 The crank spins and the rod goes up and down in the cylinder. ARC billet rods have 2 small dots on the parting line that need to face outward. You will be able to see them to know the rod is correctly installed. A rod has nothing to do with timing. There are dots on the crank and cam gears that must be aligned. If the rod is installed with the dots out and properly torqued to the crank, that is all you need to do!
Hello, this is an awesome video. Yougot a like and sub. I do have a question. I built a gov delete 212 hemi. Lapped billet flywheel, 22lb valve springs, slightly life's (mod2) cam, checked oil clearance, everything micrometered and plastiguaged within tolerance for rod. Piston installed with rings clocked, triangle towards lifters. Aftermarket exhaust with support strap. Stock carb, stock jet, stock air filter, and the clutch is directly mounted to the crank for a "torque converter" delete from the stock motor. The motor clearances fine with all the parts, I set the valve lash to nearly non-existent, and have the ARC 32 degree advance flywheel. The motor ran amazingly stock, ran pretty good after the mod as well. However, after a few days of use as a bike engine, and a very gentle break in period, before being ridden. The motor seems to have developed a knocking noise, and I'm afraid it's rod knock on my nice, super expensive (I'm poor), new con rod. Could this be detonation from advanced spark, and lean mix (stock carb/jet) or am I being over paranoid. The break in oil didn't seem to have ANY metal init at all, which I thought was WEIRD..the stock break in oil did have some metal, but the crank was mirror polished before being clearanced for the ARC rod. I use this bike as a form of transportation, and do not really have disposable income to replace parts all the time, I do have a master motorcycle mechanics license but this stumps me, as the oil seems clean, but the knock is pretty loud, and the whole bike vibrates a bit more than it did when the motor was broken in and rode as stock while I waited for parts to arrive to do a tear down, rebuild, and upgrade.
I am surprised that the engine runs with the stock main jet in the carb! You are running very lean and that could be the issue. I would replace the main jet with a .036 main when using the stock airbox www.ombwarehouse.com/honda-clone-bsp-predator-main-jets-size-036-91-number-9.html This will be very close for you! This is where I would start. These engines are already very lean from the factory to meet emissions requirements. The header further leaned out the engine. Start there and make sure the clutch is serviced. Going to a straight chain is very hard on clutches and that could be the issue as well.
@@TheGrayGoatGarage thank you, I had suspected it was detonation from lean mix and advanced timing. I'm going to re jet the carb, and probably pay a local machinist to cut a keyway Into my flywheel, one that's less than the 32 degree advanced bullet flywheel that I got from ARC, I'm really not looking for more "power" from the engine,more so than a combination of reliability and longevity by having nicer parts that are better quality than stock. I'll get the jetting done and see what that does for me first, then if the mix is right but she still has issues, I'll be having a new keyway cut. I'd really like to find a crank and flywheel that are splined so that the timing can be adjusted by simply removing and rotating the flywheel a few degrees from stock, that would be an ideal setup for tuners.
I know guys who don’t run a key they get the flywheel where they want it and tighten it down. I have done a few predator builds and my last one was a non hemi with a flat top piston and ARC 6252 rod I put a thin head gasket and when I started it the first time it was knocking ran great and ran it on my kart but kept knocking so I took the side cover and head off and it ended up being the piston was making contact with the head. It was so little that rotating the engine by hand I could barely feel it. I put a little thicker head gasket and that fixed it. I had an aluminum flywheel that was advanced and I also put a 7 degree key in and it didn’t like that so I went back with stock. For carbs I’ve ran 22mm and 24mm Chinese carbs and they did well but the best carb I’ve ever ran was a stock appearing carb that was built and jetted for the motor no guesswork slap it on and go.
Did you ever find the problem, my bet-gonna be in the rod ? I’ve had the same problem. Thought it could be - not a sleeved block. But turned out to be the rod ! I had to replace the rod. 👍
@@kylesyx8432 it was my rod bearing, the oil i used was not lubricating properly, it was too heavy an oil for a splasher system. i was using 10w40 but switched to 5w20 and it no longer knocks as bad, but the damage is already done now.
I have yet to have a crank that was not in spec. If too tight you will have have the crank journal polished. We don’t want to hone the bearings. That will ruin them.
Yes, but I would only recommend one that is for INCH pounds. Most 3/8” torque wrenches are for foot pounds and do not go low enough accurately to properly torque the bolts. 10 foot pounds is 120 inch pounds! 170 inch pound is 14.17 foot pounds Personally, I do not trust my SnapOn wrench that has been calibrated to go that low!
Every video I've seen, the clearance was fine on the crankshaft to the rod. So no one has said what you do to fix it if its too tight or too loose. Also, if I just skip this step and hope for the best, what are the odds itll be out of spec enough to do damage?
I have yet to have a crank out of spec. If the clearance is too tight you should take the crank to a machine shop and have the journal polished. If too loose, get a new crank and start over. Checking the clearance will give you peace of mind!
You need a certain clearance to have a film of oil between the bearing and crank journal. If too tight it will scuff the bearing. I have yet to see a Predator 212 crank that was not within spec!
@@TheGrayGoatGarage imean i do care but it seems like everyone just does it because it always seems to be on specs so im asking do i really really need to do it
Just finished billet rod install
Thanks Eric for posting this vid
Awesome video man....i think urs is the most informative...im a little nervous about using the plasti-gauge but it looks pretty straightfoward...ive just never used it before....
Sir you are the Goat!!!!! Thank you for being so informative!!! Step by step instructions!!!! Definitely a fallow in my books!
Thank you for this info. Doing mine next week
Very helpful video thanks bud😎👍
Fantastic video. Thank you
awaiting my new rod, look forward to finishing this part of engine build, and send head off to be milled, ported and polished with a stainless top end....
Awesome little tutorial man!! Placed my order today and this is one thing I'm gonna have to do so now I'm ready 💪🏼
Yeah Buddy! The Gray Goat is helping the common man!
Will this also work for the predetor 212 hemi?
Gray Goat awsum vid. my question is would you recommend a predator 212 or 212 hemi for a mini bike for reliability point. would like your imput . thank u Nick
Thanks Nick!
Either engine is fine. They are equally reliable and both will serve you well when properly maintained. It is claimed the Hemi may make more power out of the box, but I don't know that has ever been tested/verified. Either engine will respond well to upgrades. At the end of the day, it really does not matter! The Hemi gets the spotlight because we all saw Dodge commercials! LOL
Can I get a flywheel nut at Lowe's instead of waiting on mail? Love the ARC rods, once you get the 1/4 torque wrench, find the 1/4-1/4-12pt socket which is most likely 3/8 so get that short adapter, plastigage, a vise and whatever else you need it's a great rod. So really though, that flywheel nut at the hardware store? What size? I'm putting a list together and I always beat that sweet $150 for free shipping but just need a flywheel nut and a clutch bolt to test a motor this week. I'd order them from OMB but I'm afraid shipping will be more than it's worth.
That flywheel nut is M14 -1.5.
I don't know that you will be able to find a serrated, flanged nut at a local hardware store. This is a critical nut and must be correct. I am not crazy about using a washer and a nut on this. The washers have loose tolerances on the ID and could possibly cause an unbalanced condition.
Great video, very informative! I had a question about a carbuerator, I was wondering if anyone can answer this for me as I can't find anything online. Am I able to put a predator 212 carb on a mega Moto 80cc engine? The bolt holes line up, but I have no way idea if it's going to be getting too much air and gas.
Great vid thx
Do you carry 79cc predator billet connecting rod
I thought the arrow goes to the exhaust size?
Can someone show me the correct why to install the piston rings
Why disnt the gray goat show us him putting the stuff in the engine?
What would you have to do if the bearings were too tight?
Sand the crank until its not.
I have a Question. Do I have to reseat new bearings or can I just put them in and put everything back together?
We don’t need to “seat” these bearings. Simply put the new ones in and check the oil clearance
@@TheGrayGoatGarage okey thank you gray goat your videos have helped me out ever since I started messing with little engines
Very helpful video, man. Only issue I'm having is getting the damn rod bolts unscrewed from the cap. I nearly stripped the bolt heads.
Did you use a 12 point correctly sized socket?
@stevenreese7746 Yup. I sure did. Somehow it still stripped. I ended up getting 6 point bolts from my local hardware store. Then my old ring compressor didn't wanna work and so I tried to use my fingers to compress the rings up until I bent two of them so now I need a new set of rings and a new compressor.
The whole build has been a real headache honestly.
Is this the same process for the non hemi engine if I won't to put a billet rod?
Yes, this procedure is the same regardless of what engine you have
Can I put 22lb valve springs and a billet rod in a predator 212 cc non hemi with the stick flywheel and have no problems?
Not something I condone. I am a MiniBike guy and will not sit on one that is I ungoverned without a billet flywheel. My privates are important to me!
A stock cam does not need 22# springs! It can use 18# springs. Heavier springs don’t make more power! They take more power to turn the engine over.
Please consider a billet flywheel and get a bigger cam!
The kart guys would only use a genuine Honda flywheel or the billet fw
Does the rod have to connect at a certain point or degree around the crank? Basically if I’m installing and the crank moves, will it automatically move to the right location during operation?
Once the rod is installed and torqued it will remain in the same place and cannot change its orientation other than rotating around the crank. The crank will move the rod in different angles
When checking the clearance it does not matter where the the crank is positioned. The journal is perfectly round!
@@TheGrayGoatGarage I guess what I meant is, is it possible to install the rod incorrectly (at the wrong position) and affect timing? Or as long as it is installed tightly, it will be fine?
@@jaredgordon1903 The crank spins and the rod goes up and down in the cylinder. ARC billet rods have 2 small dots on the parting line that need to face outward. You will be able to see them to know the rod is correctly installed.
A rod has nothing to do with timing. There are dots on the crank and cam gears that must be aligned.
If the rod is installed with the dots out and properly torqued to the crank, that is all you need to do!
Hello, what us the point of putting oil on the rod bolts? thanks for any help.
The rod bolts need oil on the threads to get the proper torque spec.
Hello, this is an awesome video. Yougot a like and sub. I do have a question.
I built a gov delete 212 hemi.
Lapped billet flywheel, 22lb valve springs, slightly life's (mod2) cam, checked oil clearance, everything micrometered and plastiguaged within tolerance for rod.
Piston installed with rings clocked, triangle towards lifters.
Aftermarket exhaust with support strap.
Stock carb, stock jet, stock air filter, and the clutch is directly mounted to the crank for a "torque converter" delete from the stock motor.
The motor clearances fine with all the parts, I set the valve lash to nearly non-existent, and have the ARC 32 degree advance flywheel.
The motor ran amazingly stock, ran pretty good after the mod as well.
However, after a few days of use as a bike engine, and a very gentle break in period, before being ridden. The motor seems to have developed a knocking noise, and I'm afraid it's rod knock on my nice, super expensive (I'm poor), new con rod.
Could this be detonation from advanced spark, and lean mix (stock carb/jet) or am I being over paranoid.
The break in oil didn't seem to have ANY metal init at all, which I thought was WEIRD..the stock break in oil did have some metal, but the crank was mirror polished before being clearanced for the ARC rod.
I use this bike as a form of transportation, and do not really have disposable income to replace parts all the time, I do have a master motorcycle mechanics license but this stumps me, as the oil seems clean, but the knock is pretty loud, and the whole bike vibrates a bit more than it did when the motor was broken in and rode as stock while I waited for parts to arrive to do a tear down, rebuild, and upgrade.
I am surprised that the engine runs with the stock main jet in the carb! You are running very lean and that could be the issue. I would replace the main jet with a .036 main when using the stock airbox
www.ombwarehouse.com/honda-clone-bsp-predator-main-jets-size-036-91-number-9.html
This will be very close for you! This is where I would start. These engines are already very lean from the factory to meet emissions requirements. The header further leaned out the engine.
Start there and make sure the clutch is serviced. Going to a straight chain is very hard on clutches and that could be the issue as well.
@@TheGrayGoatGarage thank you, I had suspected it was detonation from lean mix and advanced timing.
I'm going to re jet the carb, and probably pay a local machinist to cut a keyway Into my flywheel, one that's less than the 32 degree advanced bullet flywheel that I got from ARC, I'm really not looking for more "power" from the engine,more so than a combination of reliability and longevity by having nicer parts that are better quality than stock.
I'll get the jetting done and see what that does for me first, then if the mix is right but she still has issues, I'll be having a new keyway cut.
I'd really like to find a crank and flywheel that are splined so that the timing can be adjusted by simply removing and rotating the flywheel a few degrees from stock, that would be an ideal setup for tuners.
I know guys who don’t run a key they get the flywheel where they want it and tighten it down. I have done a few predator builds and my last one was a non hemi with a flat top piston and ARC 6252 rod I put a thin head gasket and when I started it the first time it was knocking ran great and ran it on my kart but kept knocking so I took the side cover and head off and it ended up being the piston was making contact with the head. It was so little that rotating the engine by hand I could barely feel it. I put a little thicker head gasket and that fixed it. I had an aluminum flywheel that was advanced and I also put a 7 degree key in and it didn’t like that so I went back with stock. For carbs I’ve ran 22mm and 24mm Chinese carbs and they did well but the best carb I’ve ever ran was a stock appearing carb that was built and jetted for the motor no guesswork slap it on and go.
Did you ever find the problem, my bet-gonna be in the rod ?
I’ve had the same problem. Thought it could be - not a sleeved block. But turned out to be the rod ! I had to replace the rod. 👍
@@kylesyx8432 it was my rod bearing, the oil i used was not lubricating properly, it was too heavy an oil for a splasher system. i was using 10w40 but switched to 5w20 and it no longer knocks as bad, but the damage is already done now.
What if you need more clearance do you just hone it
I have yet to have a crank that was not in spec. If too tight you will have have the crank journal polished. We don’t want to hone the bearings. That will ruin them.
can you use a 3/8 drive torque wrench v
Yes, but I would only recommend one that is for INCH pounds. Most 3/8” torque wrenches are for foot pounds and do not go low enough accurately to properly torque the bolts. 10 foot pounds is 120 inch pounds! 170 inch pound is 14.17 foot pounds
Personally, I do not trust my SnapOn wrench that has been calibrated to go that low!
Every video I've seen, the clearance was fine on the crankshaft to the rod. So no one has said what you do to fix it if its too tight or too loose. Also, if I just skip this step and hope for the best, what are the odds itll be out of spec enough to do damage?
I have yet to have a crank out of spec. If the clearance is too tight you should take the crank to a machine shop and have the journal polished. If too loose, get a new crank and start over. Checking the clearance will give you peace of mind!
What happens if clearance is too tight?
You need a certain clearance to have a film of oil between the bearing and crank journal. If too tight it will scuff the bearing. I have yet to see a Predator 212 crank that was not within spec!
is this process similar for the 196cc clone engine?
Yes, this process is the same regardless if the engine is 196ccs or 460ccs.
@@TheGrayGoatGarage Great thank you!
Are this same steps for the 212cc hemi?
Yep! They use the same rod and the install is the same
@@TheGrayGoatGarage thank u so much
Do u have to do this ? Or not
You SHOULD do this but it is not 100% needed if you don’t care how long your engine will last
@@TheGrayGoatGarage imean i do care but it seems like everyone just does it because it always seems to be on specs so im asking do i really really need to do it
The oil piece doesn't fit
you dont need no stinking instructions !
I don't because I have done quite a few times. I would hope that everyone would read the instructions!
gotta love a company who screws customers by uncharging shipping costs. don't use omb. they are thieves.
Broke my bolt due to this 🤦🏻
150 inch pounds not ft