2020 Indian Challenger Dark Horse vs. Harley-Davidson Road Glide Special
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- Опубликовано: 26 фев 2020
- Style, tradition, and technology in this battle of the frame-mounted-fairing American touring motorcycles-the 2020 Indian Challenger Dark Horse vs. Harley-Davidson Road Glide Special.
For decades, Harley-Davidson sat atop the throne of American motorcycling virtually unchallenged. Not that many companies didn’t try to get a piece of the heavyweight motorcycle market, but no company has ever succeeded like The Motor Company in combining products customers want with a knockout backup of unbroken cultural experience that comes from surviving and often thriving since 1903. But when Indian Motorcycle was revived by Polaris and started producing all-new heavyweight V-twin cruisers and touring bikes for 2014, a century-old rivalry was reborn.
Indian came out swinging with its Thunder Stroke 111 air-cooled engine and H-D fired back with the pushrod, four-valve-per-cylinder Milwaukee-Eight. Now Indian provokes its competitor once more with the 2020 Challenger and its liquid-cooled, SOHC PowerPlus 108 engine, seeking to dethrone the Harley-Davidson Road Glide as the platform for performance-minded builders and change what it means to be an American bagger altogether. To seek answers, we pitted a 2020 Indian Challenger Dark Horse against the 2020 Harley-Davidson Road Glide Special. Any long-term challenger (ahem) to Harley-Davidson has to succeed on both the technical and cultural level. Consider that from 2000-2019 Harley-Davidson sold more than 1.9 million touring models, an average of roughly 96,000 units a year. Overcoming a foundation like this is Indian’s great battle, and also Harley-Davidson’s, as it is clearly competing against its own highly successful existing product with timeless design.
Although Harley-Davidson doesn’t break out sales by specific model, the baggers have been the real volume leaders in the touring line. It’s no surprise, because this gives you the comfort and convenience of a touring platform in a motorcycle that is more nimble and rideable. Touring heritage leads you to expect easy six-hour stints in the saddle, but bagger style and performance will have you pulling these bikes out of the garage for much shorter trips.
We intended to do both, with a couple of several-hundred-mile days and lots of local riding. Two separate “long” days were conducted, one with Road Test Editor Michael Gilbert, the other with Editor-in-Chief Mark Hoyer. But before any of that, we weighed the bikes on our scales, took them to our closed-course testing facility to gather performance data, and ran both bikes on our in-house Dynojet 250i rear-wheel dynamometer. Numbers logged, Gilbert and I hit the road to Angeles Crest Highway north of Los Angeles, known for its many turns, amazing mountain scenery, and fine blacktop. But you can’t get there from our Orange County office without slogging across 70 miles of some of the busiest roads in the country. A balanced test, in other words. So, after checking tire pressures and adjusting shock spring preloads (the Harley has a big knob, the Indian requires an included wrench), Gilbert and I left the office, sticking to side roads until we were out of town.
While overall profile and V-twin layout make initial riding impressions similar, one thing is plain: Launching from traffic lights, the Challenger consistently pulled ahead, despite its overly active traction control, which is too inhibiting even in the most permissive of three available ride modes (it can also be turned off). The Indian’s engine is just more lively and pulls stronger, longer, despite the two V-twins having similar bottom-end torque numbers. As we continued to make our way through town, both bikes maneuvered through traffic without producing excessive heat felt by the rider-each bike’s rear-cylinder-deactivation system coming into play at stops. Even with their size, these motorcycles are easily managed at low speed and surprisingly fun to ride from stop to stop thanks to the high torque numbers, but the Challenger carried itself better, feeling lighter than its 839-pound-wet weight suggests. “The Indian maneuvered better at slow speed,” 5-foot-7-inch Gilbert said. “I was more confident navigating tight traffic than I was on the 849-pound Harley.”
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I have been riding harleys for years and my one complaint is they sell a 20 plus grand bike that is stripped down and then give you a free catalog full of stuff that should have come on it.
Dayummmm
just buy them used 😂 let some dentist or lawyer take the new bike hit, those engines can run for a million kilometres if properly serviced. Back in the old days the gardener would be tasked with wearing the lord's new jacket to break it in.
@@khakimzhanmiras or just offer a bike that doesn’t need thousands in “upgrades” to hang with the competition!
Geniuses at marketing, I like when you trade in a bike with do dads on it and they tell u those dont add any additional value BUT when you are looking at pre owned with do dads on it there worth their weight in gold. Buy a blacked out version of a street glide and convert it to chrome with a accessory catalogue and vice versa. 40, 000 plus dollars for a cvo ultra. And they sell! What's wrong with people, I guess if money is no object and you like it why not
@@robertparisi8016 PT Barnum said it.........
I have almost 2000 miles on my 2020 Challenger Dark Horse and absolutely love it. I've been riding for 40 years / 25+ street bikes. 🤟🏻
@Steve Jones, asking someone to compare bikes is like asking someone to compare seats. Everyone has an opinion based on their own personal experience and for every person who loves a particular seat, you will find someone who doesn't. You really need to go ride both and form your own opinion. What is important to you might not be important to me. Personally I was hoping Indian would have put the frame mounted fairing on the Chieftain with the big fender, but not that ugly fairing.
Paulie Fox ‘Bout time you settle down and get yer geezer glide. boomer out.
Here in Australia heat can be a BIG issue. How well does the Challenger rate?
Well Liquid cooled engines will always perform better in high heat due to consistency.
G'day Paulie.Coming from Australia, I am really interested in how well the Challenger handles heat?
Indian is making bikes the way Harley should be making them. I've test ridden both. When I rode the Road Glide, it was nice, but it felt like it was missing something. Riding the Indian, it felt complete, which felt like the exact opposite of the way it should be. It's hard to describe. But the ride was better, it was smoother, going through the corners was like a knife through butter. Indian is taking Harley's designs for their bikes and re-building them from the ground up, giving you a better built bike. For the same price point, it's a no-brainer: Indian, far and away.
Well put!
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@Jeffrey Gatlin instablaster :)
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Thank you so much you really help me out!
Just got my challenger last month. 3k miles later and it’s just badass. Got my first video uploaded, more to come!!!
You had me at electric windshield
I bought a 2020 RGS looked at the Indian before purchasing and came back to the RGS. It just looks so badass and the aftermarket game is crazy!
Swintnation
Nothing like Harley the rest... wanna be
Harley Road Glide look so much better, nothing like a Harley
You ain't do no wrong trust me, I have the 2019, we're good here.😉
Nothing like that 70+ HP for 24k. Such a great deal.
I'll take a lower hp, air cooled, bad ass looking bike all day. I can put in that S&S, 124, or get some bigger balls for the 143ci, and smash out those lame numbers all day. Tried n Tru track numbers, got some mean mean fucking aftermarket awesomeness from Harley Davidson! I just think it's an ugly difference and I'd rather have to build up a bike I know will perform and last a lifetime. And when I kill my engine, I'll put a new one in or trade her in or sell her!
Great video, I really like the way you guys review bikes, you are both professionals and that makes a difference. I did try the 2020 Challenger, really liked the bike, but was afraid of some cut out engine issues as well, IT HAPPENED to many riders out there and plus the sales person and managers of Indian Motorcycles were very difficult (Policy?) and that made me walk away without my Challenger and I ended up buying a 2020 RDRS Road Glide Special which i am happy with...(had to change the seat and the rear shocks [both for comfort] , but that was part of the deal and free...So that made me very happy as I got my Road Glide for 1k less than the Indian with all he extras...
THAHKS A LOT
Thahk you!
Regarding the rear shocks, what did you end up going with? And are you happy with the suspension now?
GREAT VIDEO. LOVE THE INSIGHTS DEF CHANGED MY MIND.
Notice at the 3:53 mark, the engine light comes on with the Challenger. There is your "Electrical" issue. I know it well. I have 2 Challengers now sitting DOA at my dealer. 1 was a replacement for the original bike purchased in November. It is now February 28th and I still don't have a bike to ride. I just sold a 2019 Harley Tri-Glide. It was so much more reliable !
bbgmarine bummer man. I was hoping these would be a winner.
@@Jay-bw3fl I think the bike is a winner. Just been very frustrated that out of the 15% that had issues, I've had 2 of them. However, Indian just released a service bulletin that is suppose to correct the issue. I will know for sure next week.
Yes I have been screaming this but no one will listen.... it is NOT a winner Polaris has had electric issues with road master also leaving people stranded and keep in mind they don’t sell many at all Harley sells more street glides then all Indians combined thank the lord we have a believer finally
@@stevexaxa3619 it's not like Harley has had a notoriously bad reputation for over forty years of just about every problem imaginable.
Steve H still a lot better then Polaris
I owned the Road Glide for 5 yrs and I absolutely love that bike, best Harley ever IMO BUT I went to a Indian test ride event last year and drove away on my new Challenger. I’ll forever own a frame mounted fairing bike, the difference is night and day.
I just bought a Challenger today. My first frame mounted fairing. Is there really a difference?
Thanks guys for this comparison and the fact that you’ve decided a winner is a proof that you don’t do politics like all the other channels, you watch thirty minutes and at the end they tell you both bikes are good.
Keep up the good work
Both bikes are fantastic! Buy the one that excites you and makes YOU happy 👍. I personally don't care about horsepower. My number 1 requirement for what makes me happy is comfort. That being said the Harley is more comfortable for ME. I could care less who is faster.
You have a big point there
You'll be more comfortable sitting on a couch
Love those Indian motorcycles!
They just keep getting better and better!!👍
I'm hoping Indian will force H-D to up their game. To bring my 2014 Road King up to modern performance standards I've had to do both engine and suspension work.
They already have. The Road King had bullshit suspension until the counter Springfield came out with way better suspension. It was even noted in the Revzilla review, the next year, Harley fixed it. Harley's been having to make quite a few changes and actually try again now that they can't just sit back and milking their designs from the 90s. The winner in competition is the consumer.
You kinda said it though... you want a 6, almost 7 year old bike to compare to new... show me a 7 year old car that compares to the new model. Food for thought. I Absolutely love my 09 Nightrain... do I expect it to hang with a much newer Breakout? Nope.
Suspension differences: "The Indian seems to GLIDE over the road, whereas the Harley Road Glide does not..." I love honest reviews.
Harley has always felt, like GM, they will buy anything we make. But in 2008 GM found out the hard way trying to catch up to global competition.
This is one of the best comparisons I've seen on these two bikes. And the end result was exactly what I thought it was going to be.
A very tight competition
*Hard ride, mechanical noise, vibration, less power, but an unrequited emotional connection. That's a Hardley, OK.*
Just my 2 cents I’ve been a heavy equipment operator for over 40 years. I have leaned how to tune in to what ever machine I am operating. I have ridden all styles and brands of bikes as well . The last bike was an Electric glide Harley ( before my Indian Roadmaster ) . If your riding for the brand then stick to your Harleys , if your in it for what the machine offers than Indian is a clear choice. So for all of you Harley riders out there , never ride an Indian . You can never go back to being happy after ride an Indian ( unless you one )
Great review guys. I've been dying to see a review on the newest Harley Road King Special vs the Indian Springfield Dark Horse but nobody out there seems to have made this video. Any chance you can do this comparison as well?
Those fairings look too much like "Bender" from Futurama for me.
Def at 5:56 i busted out laughing as i read ur comment and looked up lol
Me too!!
Seen once , cant be unseen...
The fairings on both bikes really are the low points for the overall look of the bikes.
"Kiss my shiny metal ass!"
Pretty good job guys. I enjoyed seeing both bikes up close together. I have to say it would have been nice to get a take on cockpit ops, fit and finish , things like that that matter on a Bagger/Tourer as well as just performance. But good job overall. Sadly, I have never ridden a Harley-Davidson Touring bike. I simply cannot afford the ones I would really want, so I figured why ride one? I went with the Victory Vision. If I could have gotten the 'Glide for what I paid for the Vision I most likely would have bought the 'Glide. The Indians are nice, I have ridden many, including the new Challenger. But I can't get comfortable on them, They all feel cramped. The Challenger was close, and it rode really well. Had good power. Good brakes, too. I could live with the Challenger I think. But the tag is too high for me. I reckon I'll just keep this Vision until she's done. At this rate that will be exactly never! And I'm OK with that.
So the traction control can only be turned off while moving and automatically turns back on when you stop?
Top video guys, I really enjoyed it mind you I am not into either bikes because I like Japanese motorcycles but in saying that I like the way you run the comparison and how you stated the specs.
Well done.
I just got my new 20 chieftain limited icon 116 and love it I have ridden Harley as well but the power in Indian limited is so much better and just the options like quad core infotainment lets me know all my gauges and maps at same time. Good job Indian
Video Starts**
So we don’t have the Indian Challenger because it broke down and had electrical problems so we pushed it home.
Say no more......
Exactly, and the comments are all about how reliable Indian is. You don't finish the test, you lose--face.
Weight difference? You have gas in yhe tank? Some aftermarket pieces
Nice job guys! 2020 Harley FLHTP here. Nice bike but if I have the opportunity to upgrade I’d buy the challenger. Id really miss the Harley dealership many locations tho. But hands down prefer the challenger. It does need a “tour pak”. Then it would be beyond perfect!
76 horsepowers 27k bike damn so thats why they don’t disclose horse powers of their bike
That's wheel horsepower but yea not that great
25 hp difference
The 117 HP HD has more than 76 HP but them old air cooled push rod engines are down on HP for sure. Oh Gosh the 117 us ony 76 Rear whell HP that's rather pitifull .. needs a cam ect ..
Mike Skidmore maybe 80 hp now 76 was last year look it up
abhilash v And who names a bike after the misfortunate space shuttle???
Dahhh 🤪🤪🤪
Matt Laidlaw about to be pissed
Nah, he'll find some other reason to bitch...even if he has to invent one.
Why would he be pissed? Because two sport bike riders chose the Indian? Other than suspension, when you look at real world numbers the Indian is only slightly higher performing and you have to deal with coolant and a radiator fan blowing hot air on you.
Hahahahaha
haha
@@Dave-sw2dm Right, because 195 degree air from the radiator two feet in front of you is way hotter than 300+ degree air from air cooled jugs directly inside your thighs...
Can you get that Challenger in Zaku green?
Great review
I ride a Roadglide special and I love it! I have never owned anything but Harleys, but would love to schedule an Indian test ride. I watched a lot of reviews, and the Challenger seems to outperform the Roadglide consistently. Not sure I would make the switch, though. Indian seems to be very limited on their aftermarket, and the fact that there are a ton of Harley dealers across the country gives me more reason to stay.
I have 5 Indian dealerships within 150 miles of me. The closest is 40 miles away. With traffic, it's a wash between the 40 mile dealership and the 61 mile dealership. We also have 5 Harley dealerships within 150 miles with the closest being 38 miles away. There were 7 Harley dealerships, but one closed down and one absorbed the other.
Yeah you need tons of HD dealer since the bike drops couple screws every mile
@@donniebunkerboi9975 I’ve owned four Harleys and never had any issues.
Dont do it! I have 2 Harley’s, one a ‘20 SGS w/a stage 2. I just put a deposit on the new Darkhorse Black Smoke Pursuit as its just a better bike. Love my Harley SGS but its getting traded in when the new Indian come in. The electronic Fox rear suspension, inverted front forks, 200W stereo, and passing power at 50MPH+ was unreal. Ride safe.
All you guys talking about the electrical issues...let's break this down from an engineering standpoint:
Every single manufacturer of any kind of car/truck/motorcycle/semi makes multiple pre-production models so they can test and improve the procedures for assembly. They do not say what happened in this video, but they DO in the article. A zip tie holding a harness under the seat wore through the wire sheathing and shorted/opened wires in the harness. Indian inspected the failure and updated production procedures to prevent it from happening on any other bikes.This wiring harness failure is EXACTLY the point of these bikes...so they can find failures that may happen from how they assemble the bike and FIX them.
Is it a good idea to put a pre-production bike out for testing? Sometimes yes and sometimes no. Harley never puts any pre-production bikes out to testers...at least not that I've ever seen. They can give bad publicity. Now, to anyone that actually thinks...this is a simple problem on a non-production bike that was fixed by simply changing where you install zip ties on a harness. So, they found a problem and they fixed the problem before the bike even went into production. It wasn't a module failure, some expensive 50 bajillion dollar item that failed...it was a zip tie.
They said it on the video too.
Yeah let’s pay 27k for a zip tie to be the end of my bike
@@Ch3w3dboy216 Because spending 27k and having the oil pump be the end of your bike is...better?
Good review!
What riding mode were you using when you encounter an issue with traction control
Traction control -> On.
3 clicks, Traction control -> Off. To disable the limiters.
I have heard of the electrical issue on a few production Challengers and on other test rides. Hopefully, Indian can resolve quickly and have this bike launch without issues. I would hate to see problems on the scale that HD has seen: TC 88/cam chain tensioners, M8/oil sumping, brake issues/oil transfer clutch to primary/ 3-oil pump designs, etc. It is obvious HD did not run up M8 engines and debug problems. HD launched the M8 engine and are fixing it (unless you changed your air cleaner or exhaust) as people encounter problems. If Indian can show through 1st year sales that the Challenger does not have the type of problems HD's M8 engine has had, then I am in for my next bike. Due to the cam chain tensioner flawed design with my two TC88 engines, no more HDs for me, but I am looking for a reason not to buy a Goldwing.
"Pound feet" is really hard on the ears lmao. Foot pounds maybe? 😂
Dude that killed me too lol
The unit of measure is pounds force per foot (lb-ft). Foot pounds isn't correct and never was-just easier to say which is probably why it stuck. That would be like saying "Meter Newtons" instead of Newton Meters.
@@channell11 that makes sense, I'll still give you a weird look if you say pound feet lol!
Harley Davidson “feel the vibration” is them cheaping out. They are literally living off their name.
Rode 1500 km w my buddy on his Dark Horse, he is a new rider started last year. On his 2020 DH and me on my 2020 H2 SX SE, we had a great time, obviously I let him leave ahead of me or I drove his speed basically 55-65mph . He is super happy w the Indian bike and I am super happy w my H2. Perhaps when I am 5-6 yrs older basically 60 I will consider a bagger but right now I am enjoying the Kawasawki Sport Tour but I thin the Indian is a really nice bike. Looking at both of them definitely the liquid cooled motor is a big advantage and I think the Indian R&D is just better at this time
I love both bike,but if I have to choose it’ll be the road glide 😁🤙🏽
You're CRAZY. I was a Harley owner, for YEARS.
I've got 50yrs, on TWO WHEELS.
I LOOK Forward to a Scout & a Challenger.
JS
@@johnspencer2560 scout sucks 👎 & even the Challenger is the Copy of Road glide 😏
@@rinkukoradi2539 Absolutely true 😏
This review never mentioned the "fit & finish" in the comparison (short sighted on this review)? In my opinion HD is the benchmark of fit & finish of motorcycles and this is and will be what will influence my purchase!
I would really like to inspect them side by side !!!!
I would like to know how the cornering clearance of the Challenger compares to a Triumph Rocket 3
I have a 2020 HD/FXDR and it's ok by me. These are both great bikes and I would say it's a matter of choice. Great reviews guys thanks. Oh 1 last thing, I wish I could have both 😁🤠🇵🇭🇺🇲
Excellent shootout, but Indian needs to work on supply chain management, consumer satisfaction, and dealership network. In Saudi Arabia, we had a dealership, but they closed since 2017 and I wonder, how Indian Motorcycle allows this to happen for years without intervening to rectify the situation! Indian Motorcycle Corporate Dealership in Saudi Arabia is a must to grow and success in Middle East
Zakariya Bokhamseen اخ زكريا ما اعتقد قفلوا الوكاله للحين موجودين. وانا مهتم جدا في البايك الجديد من انديان. اخوك حميد
tatuksa انا عندي انديان تشيفتن والبايك ماعليه كلام والاحسن شي فيه انه مايطلب ولا فيه خرابات، لكن الوكيل قفل كامل الفروع في المملكة من عام ٢٠١٨ واستمر في بيع الدراجات من المستودع (نظام اسر منتجة) صيانة على الماشي ولافي عندهم القطع الاستهلاكية فضلا عن الاكسسوارات. لكن نسمع انهم بيفتوحون فرع في الرياض من شهر ١ والى اليوم مترنحين ولا تقدر تاخذ منهم كلمة. التشالنجر يتفوق على الهارلي وبايك جبار والله يكتب لك الي فيه الخير
Zakariya Bokhamseen انا معاي دبابين لكن ابي دباب باقر مثل الانديان او الرود قلايد او البي ام دبليو باقر. المشكله جربت الهارلي رود قلايد غالي ولافيه اي ميزه. البي ام دبليو كويس لكن شكله كانه سكوتر كبير. والكوازاكي فويجر قديم ماتغير شي. انتظر الانديان اذا الوكاله نايمه ولا تحسنوا بروح لهوندا لاني حاطه اخر خيار بالنسبه لي. لكن بسئلك سؤال. امانه كيف البايك معاك للحين. كويس خرب شي كبير او فقط قطع استهلاكية
@@tatuksa ممتاز البايك، الصراحة ما واجهت فيه مشاكل، ومتوازن وأفضل من الهارلي. البي ام ممتاز لكن مثل ماقلت شكله سكوتر + مافيه صوت. الهوندا غالي ولو باخذ بايك: بشتري التشالنجر لكن يعتمد على وضع الوكالة والخيار الثاني بي إم فيه مواصفات أعلى من الهوندا وكفاية انه بي ام
اعجبني هذا الاعلان في حراج
haraj.com.sa/1154783959
Woah, I always thought fairings looked pretty bad on bikes... they look amazing on these two models.
Rode HD for 25 years, but I think I want to get the Indian. I already have an 07 Yamaha Royal Star and its been phenomenally reliable and great for long touring trips. I want the Indian for short day stuff and will keep the Yamaha for long out of town touring trips.
Ride a late model cross country, it’s the same platform and geometry as the challenger except for the air shock vs hydraulic. The 108 also has some common features with the Victory 106. Great vid guys ! Ride on !
It's because that was a victory motor, well it would have been. patents had to expire before they could use it for indian
Great review fellas. I’m buying a new Goldwing BTW. That bike is amazing
27k... I wonder why American bikes aren't doing well these days 🤔
Well Harley is not a true American made ...49% is made out of the states that’s why we call them Honda Davidson’s
What an another thing Harley-Davidson is lagging they refuse to take their Motors to the next level by making them water cooled I own a Road King that I won't trade it for the world but Harley-Davidson does need it go to the next level
men under 30 do not have $30,000 for a motorcycle. Harley Davison will be bankrupt soon if they don’t move their manufacturing plant overseas where labor is cheaper
4The2nd dude stfu, so what should we all go buy a sportster with an Evo that’s from 1985, quit the shit Harley fucking blows
Ricardo Graus when I was growing up my dad always said if you have to finance your fun, you can’t afford it . Save your money !
Well done guys! I love my Challenger! Just an awesome bagger!
Many comments about HD power. It really is about the torque on either of these. I see many of these here on the roads of Arkansas. Usually large groups going at least 10mph below posted speeds. The HD doesn't need 150hp to go 45mph in a 60mph zone.
I’ve been riding for 50 years and I love motorcycles, having owned every bike available in America I loved just about all of them so when I decided to buy one last bike I shopped hard for over a year riding everything I could and saved H-D & Polaris for last. I rode the Chiefton and Challenger twice and the Road Glide and Electra Glides twice before I picked one to buy. I bought a 2019 Electra Glide Standard because I don’t need a stereo and all that stuff as I’ve got it in my phone & helmet via Bluetooth. I found the Polaris bikes felt like they were just not right, something lacking in perceived build quality that I just couldn’t put down to one single thing as well as feeling Japanese somehow. Maybe it was the high frequency vibration that I don’t like, or the switch gear, like I said I can’t narrow it down to one thing. I also paid just $13,500 for the EGS and that’s about all I’m paying for any bike. The bike had 2,000 miles on it and it runs and rides beautifully. I NEVER buy brand new off the showroom floor because it just makes no sense to me to listen to the cash register running backwards as you ride out of the dealer lot and onto the city street! I’m way past having the fastest, most options stage in life so none of today’s bikes or cars are a must have, having said that, what I wanted was a solid, comfortable bike with good protection that I can ride coast to coast if I want to with good dealer support if I need it for anything and Harley-Davidson fits those needs very well whereas Polaris doesn’t. I know I made the right choice as I continue to hear of electrical problems big time from the Polaris guys. Hopefully they will get it straightened out, it is a 1st year bike and look at all the problems Harley-Davidson had with this M8 line for the 1st 2 years! Competition is good and I don’t bash anyone for what they ride, ride what works for you. I told my wife this was gonna be the “last bike” for me but man that new Africa Twin is really sweet!...
VERY well said. Exactly where I'm at and exactly the direction I'M taking
You lost me at “feeling Japanese some how”. Everyone knows the Japanese build badass machines.
The Harley touring chassis is long past due for an update. That hurts the RG more than anything else.
the fact that they only install 12" rear shocks instead of 13" like the rest of the their touring line doesn't help. but hey, it's got to look cool, right?
R&d for hd needs updating 76 hp vs 103 not even in the same park and the frame is shit on a hd old
russell walker When a 12 inch shock gives 2 inches of travel and their 13 gives 2.3 its not that big a deal. Both are shit.
ToastyClam it’s therefrMes that are old and motor design
I wish Indian would allow the aftermarket to improve on their bikes and provide more options for performance to their customers. If they did!? I’d buy a challenger tomorrow!
I owned a scout and I miss that bike, but I love my bike lego box of a 2020 FXLRS
Great Review guys 👍👍🇺🇲
The Vermonter
if the new Harley CEO wants to succeed, he better not watch any videos that are positive about Indian nor read any negative reviews about Harley.
SOLD.. Indian Challenger it is!! Once they update that traction control
I have an Indian and love it compared to my previous HD. You can just turn TC off in settings if it’s not something you want on. Indian just delivers more for the money, HD could and will in the future but just hasn’t been challenged in the past by a true competitor. A couple negatives with Indian are the lack of dealers compared to HD and the warning lights are a big thing with Indians, I constantly have warnings show up that even the dealers can’t fully understand. But overall, Indian is a better bike in a comparison. I know a lot of Harley riders will disagree but most of those guys won’t even try an Indian.
Adam Harding I eventually want to move on from the sports bike to a bagger because I love long rides. I’ll schedule me a test ride soon!
Just turn off the traction control fam
ToastyClam they are charging for that traction control, it needs to work properly lol
Dom Roach it’s literally working properly. If it’s not to your liking then don’t buy it fam
The HD has a 114CI and it only did 76HP and 108ft pds torque? I had a Triumph 104CI and after some minor mods (pipes and air intake) it dyno'd at 101HP and 116 torque. HD motors suck! Unfortunately, my Triumph was stolen last year.. but I'm picking up the new Challenger in April.
Thats what I was saying. My 11 year old victory 107 puts out 98/99hp and 13to106ft lbs with stage one pipes and an air filter
Joe Scopa I have a 114 had 2 107... they have all the power you could want.... I rode 107 from Florida to Indiana and the 114 from Indiana to California 2 up loaded heavy... it definitely does not suck
Exactly my point.
I had an 05 BMW boxer motor that from the factory put out a hundred horsepower and 89 foot pounds of torque on a bike under 500 lb with a much wider Power Band.
Low-tech and air/oil cooled and still probably feels better than most 2 cylinder bikes nowadays.
So again... you think it’s a Polaris win because they mad a new motor with more horsepower so if harleys new motor has more that makes it better on that alone?? Someone here commented about new chassis.... well Harley has upgraded the motor about 4 times for Polaris 1 ... you guys spend your 30,000 on Polaris if you want to if your happy fine while I doubt most here even own a Polaris.... but you have no facts to back up it’s better... if you want it fine... that doesn’t make it better and most of America doesn’t think this or there would be a lot of Indians and not many harleys
Great video I've always thought about 30,000 Harley-Davidson now you have to put stage 1 stage two stage 3 etc to make it go only thing hurry has good dealer Network hope Indian holds hands on in there
Indian's new bikes make Harley feel ancient.
H-D rip is soon
Not really
*any new bikes
There, fixed it.
harley apologist always comin atchya with the "its not about the speed or power". just about paying $28K for a bike that is not class leading in any category for a touring/ bagger bike. MEANWHILE THE CEO OF HD STEPS DOWN LOL.
Exactly lmfao
Literally spot on
Apparently it just got leaked out that he was fired after several large shareholders pushed Harley to fire him. His compensation had increased to $11 million a year all the while he wasn't reversing HD sales losses. The new guy makes $8 million and one investor, Impala Holdings, really has doubts he's going to help turn this around.
@@mattshaggs2931 No chance when it is $28K for 60HP.
@@mobgma Harley is looking at all the Challenger sales and thinking about how they could have made a bike like this YEARS ago but they were too busy slapping lowered shocks on the rear of a de-bagged Ultra and selling them for $25k a piece. They're gonna have to compete with this thing...and it's gonna take a lot more than just adding 3 more cubes to their highest end Stage 4 kit.
Alternative for better power and handling.
KTM Super Duke GT.
1301 CC V-twin.
Can pick up a new ‘19 for around $17,500 (MSRP $20,500).
Put an exhaust on it and flash the ECU ($2k-$3k depending on what you do) and will get 100+ ft-lbs and 170+ HP to the rear wheel on a bike weighing right at 500 lbs (90 and 150 to the rear wheel without the mods), and more/better sound.
Will want to rip your arms off all the way to redline at 11k rpms while wickedly screaming with a deep rumble.
And handle the curves unlike any big cruiser/bagger/tourer.
And has a more capable suspension and brakes.
Comes stock with integrated but removable panniers.
Aftermarket seats and larger windscreens available, if you desire.
Good review
Clap awareness 😱
Gotta love Harleys. Yesterdays tech, tomorrows prices.
76HP OMFG god I laughed. $28K bike for 76 HP. that is laughable at best. HD sheeple will love this.
Thats what I was thinking. Hell my 11 year old victory vision with pipes and a filter puts out 98/99hp and 103 ftlbs. The indian would be a performance upgrade but a comfort demotion. The HD would be a demotion either way
They indian lost nearly 20 HP too.
@@frshtlldthfreshtilldeath9670 harley apologist always comin atchya with the "its not about the speed or power". just about paying $28K for a bike that is not class leading in any category for a touring/ bagger bike. MEANWHILE THE CEO OF HD STEPS DOWN LOL.
@Mod Zozer true story. And the new HD ceo is a genius. He brought puma back to life.
@Mod Zozer With HD you will be pushing a slow bike for sure.
Just an oddball observation. Michael Gilbert the #55 superstock racer in MotoAmerica, is wearing the #43 American Flat Track hat of James "the rocket" Rispoli. I'm a fan of both.
Got a 2020 road glide 131 love it
Just ordered a street glide special. 131 kit also ordered
Well, Harley-Davidson axed their CEO. At least they know they were headed in the wrong direction.
And the guy in charge of HD now worked for shoe company Puma for 18 years.....LOL
I’m an ADV guy... But I’ve always had a soft spot for the Road Glide. I’d never buy one... But they are cool.
You’ll buy one. Keep room in your garage. It happens.
I’ve had both for years( Harley Bagger & BMW R1200GS , along w a little F650GS) It’s fun to hop on one or the other, totally different but both so much fun! Ride all of em all you can! Life is short, enjoy it!
damn both motorcycles looks same more in every aspect of looks 😍
What bothers me about bagger reviews is that you always see the guys riding them like they are trying to race them and that’s not what they are for
I chose the RGS over the Challenger, and I traded in an Indian for the glide. I got the RGS brand new ‘20 for $25k, Indian laughed at me for that price in the dark horse. Indian does not have the robust community/dealers/aftermarket scene that you need to be comfortable buying an Indian. My buddy purchased the challenger and shortly after his bike was in the shop for a radiator crack, bike had be be towed to the dealer where it spent I believe 3 weeks before it got fixed. Coming from an Indian myself where everything is limited in availability I can say having an HD now I can understand how important the robust community is. The RGS is every bit a quality machine and the M8 114 has PLENTY of power, sounds great and the fit and finish imo is better than the dark horse.
That's the old HD line; "but we have a community..." when their bikes are inferior. I remember being at a HD dealership when deciding which cruiser to buy and the salesman knew the Kawasaki beat it at 30% less money, all he could say is "we have riding groups". LOL
In a world where the Toyota Camry can have 300hp, you just can't be out there with an 800lbs motorcycle that makes 76hp. You're gonna get fucked up.
Yea... except with harleys its about torque... torque makes you go. Hp is really more.important at high rpm. Something harleys don't have. They red line at 6k. I watch harleys all the time tho run head to head with crotc rockets at quarter-mile. The hp doesn't really mean shit unless you planning on going 200 on a bagger...
Lack of dealership support makes me Leary about the Indian motorcycles, for example where I’am at only one dealership for at least three counties!
Love both these bikes, and ride a Yamaha Stratoliner, but still going to an adventure bike next. Goodbye cruisers.
Gotta share this with Matt Laidlaw...
Hahaha
He doesn't need to hear this verdict, he will cry himself to sleep while clutching his Willie G. Davidson blow-up doll.
@@BlackbirdSSR 🤣🤣😂😂
@@BlackbirdSSR ease off and back off Matt. it's not fair to him. what do you expect him to say?
Don't talk about it just be about it
I've given up on buying motorcycles. I just buy bulk ammo and gettin' ready for the corona zombies.
I only have 2 words to say to you.......Roll Tide.
Will trade road glide for chain gun . . . . ?
Both.
@@John-fy7yf Thanks Maynard!!
Pretty cringe bro
I rode Harley for 17 years, and love them, but I also loved the Indian, especially after they came out with a butterfly clutch for the old Chieftain. I was never a fan of the tank-shift/suicide-clutch arrangement. My only concern in this comparison is the availability of dealerships. Especially on long backroad trips that do not include many large cities, if I suffer a breakdown I stand a better chance of fining a relatively nearby dealer or shop for Harley than for Indian.
H.D. Was a great bike in its time but newer younger motorist are now proving the point of their requirements. I might buy the CHALLENGER but I have the F-6B gold wing and love the quite smooth silky ride of it, and powers to my command at any gear go HONDA
Summary of the comment section below:
HD cons: only 76 bhp, 27k price tag
Indian cons: Electrical issue, not reliable.
As I couldn't found any comments stating Pros, I haven't added any.
Also, these aren't my opinion, I m just stating the common opinion in this comment thread. So please don't hate.
Maybe watch the video chief
Maybe read the first line of my actual comment CHIEF
Alpha Wolf u right
Is this a preview of Moto America's bagger race at Laguna Seca? The anticipation is killing us! Seeing these palookas swinging on each other will be a real bumfight. Who's gonna do a dirt overtake at the Corkscrew on one of these sleds? C'mon, make us forget Rossi versus Stoner. Dare ya!
Great comparison Guys, really thinking of getting an Indian Challenger or Chieftain, I ride a Road King right now...👍👊✌
If you like the Road King, it's Indian counterpart would be the Springfield, with a lot fancier stuffs.
@@SpykeZ0129 with none of the resale value👍
@@DOHC91GLI Ya Harley's are so great, that's why there's so many used ones for sale. Only reason Harley keeps their price is because of their retarded misplaced cult loyalty of a company that's continuing down the drain, being bested by a company that specialized in snowmobiles.
@@SpykeZ0129 Going down the drain huh?
56% market share is going down the drain?
Last time I looked I don't think anyone (including Indian) was even double digits.
@@SpykeZ0129 Springfield looks like a decorated bull & it needs fancier stuff whereas the Road king looks more realistic & that’s why there are more Road king’s than the fancier Springfield 😏
Nice Video
Because of sponsorship you guys can't say it so I will....The Indian blows the Harley away. But they are equal in that both bikes are ridiculously priced.
The Indian is better, but it's not cutting edge either. They can do better, especially for that money.
James L ...I think Indian is more forward thinking because they're trying to gain market share, such as with their 1200 scrambler. Harley just goes with what's always worked for them, at least in the cruiser segment, which they may want to rethink. Cruiser guys like horsepower too. Harley has the LiveWire but they're already behind the curve on that one. Their naked Bronx looks interesting and I can see it selling to younger buyers if they price it right...but they won't.
They both are shitty bikes. Fat, ugly, slow, expensive...
blipco5 I currently own a 2009 RT. came from cruisers. I just don’t see the benefit of the extra weight. my 11 year old BMW still does most things better than most if not all of the cruisers. For 28k, I’d get a new RT and save the extra dough for a few trips. if Indian or HD came out with a ST, I’d take a look.
Why is Michael wearing James Rispoli's hat?
I'd take the Indian hands down over the antique.
@Mod Zozer Tell me about it. Went on a ride with my Harley buddies and spent more time waiting for them than anything.
Neo Smith yeah waiting for them to pick you up while you’re broken down on the side of the road
I think hector works for Harley 😂
Great side by side
Great video guys, definitely Indian challenger is the beast , I own Harley Davidson streetglide special Milwaukee 8 and can't wait to trade for my new challenger
For what the Harley cost they better step it up
Man I miss Ari and Zac
Harley and indian my 2 favorite brands i wanna own someday 😍🤘🏾💪🏾
Not a huge bagger fan, but I definitely go for the Challenger.
Not surprised the Indian did better. If Harley doesn't step up they will fail for sure.
I think indian won't let harley fail, it need competitor in the business to make their product look better, and this is great competition between 2 big brand of american motorcycle, that's make their product going better and better again. Sorry for my english
Poor HD. These guys could only manage to give it a “point” for being really ruff to ride. 😂
Indian has passed and left HD behind. It’s actually an insult to compare this challenger to the RGS. The Challenger is in Goldwing and BMW class.
the chieftain and the 116 has the RG& SG covered.
I agree with you there. I love my RG, but the challenger isn't even in the same realm.
No Harley rider wants a "smoother" ride. If they did, they'd buy metric such as you said.
That's why I bought my Yamaha. Once Indian updates their Chief dark horse with the new 108 and looks I'll be sold. Not a touring guy yet.
Lol. Goldwing and BMW are kinda dorky bikes. I don't prefer them, or this Polaris.
I'm sure guys who like V-rods will like them though.
Can anyone tell me is this bike from India.
Legit question here. Not picking on either bike. My Victory has the 106 with the stage-2 cam. It's a 2011 Hammer S. I know that we're not talking about the same category bike here but Victory put that engine in almost all its models, maybe without that cam in some. Also, I added a timing adjustment wheel which brings my HP number to about 100 and my torque number to right around 118-120. Is there a reason why Indian couldn't keep making a version of that and stick it in their models? I feel that would be a very good engine for some of their models. Fuel consumption? Emissions? There has to be a reason.
My 100 makes 100hp and 118tq 👍
Prices are very comparable to the other brands that offer touring bikes.
Yamaha transcontinental 26,999
Honda goldwing - 31,000
Kawasaki Voyager 1700 - 17,999
Harley Davidson ultra limited - 28,699
Indian road master - 29,999
Keep in mind these are the touring models only.
The Honda gold wing is not 31k. The Honda gold wing is 23k. Stop. You posted the price of the automatic DCT gold wing that has an airbag and trunk.
Hahaha HDs disadvantages are advantages? How can I get my 4:01 minutes back?
"it doesn't shake itself apart like a Harley"...I mean, isn't that a good thing?
Lol exactly! Its like making someone eat shit for 50 years then giving them a ham sandwich and they say, This ham sandwich is amazing but I kind of miss that shit taste, lol
Damn... was expecting more power from the 114. Crying shame. Then again, it is air cooled. Indian FTW.
Everyone of these review videos tries to claim the road glide is cheaper because they use MSRP. NOT ONE Road Glide sells for anything close to MSRP, the cheapest Road Glide Special I can find for sale used is a 2020 and they want over 32k for it. The Challengers sell for about 29 or 30k and they have SO MANY more features than the Road Glide and are more powerful and better ride and suspension.