OMG. I don't know if you wrote the copy for this review or someone else produced the content but this was unbelievable. I have watched countless hours of motorcycle reviews/ comparisons and always felt cheated out of my time, but this was the best I've ever seen!
Traded in my Harley for the Challenger. Best decision ever! Better power, brakes, suspension, stereo, and the frame does not flex. Handles awesome and does not feel or act like a heavy bike.
"you could build this bike into a performer"---Road Glide "you're probably not going to see much for this bike, and honestly it doesn't really need that much"--Indian That is the positive for the HD? That you can throw more money at it to make it adequate? That's a terrible reason...you shouldn't HAVE to!
They are both freakin touring bikes. I can buy a $10k Kawasaki that will put them both to shame. Personally, I have moved away from liquid cooled and high tech features on bikes as I have grown to appreciate the form and artistry of motorcycles where the engine is the centerpiece. All 4 of my current bikes from different manufacturers and genres are air cooled twins or thumpers with a couple of them having an external oil cooler. They are beautiful machines and I only change on them the items that make them more personal for me and better at holding the roads I ride. This means accessories and suspension upgrades. I have a Road Glide Special and it is a beautiful machine. I can't get past the Ford F150 lights on the Challenger and don't like them on F150 either.
the harley looks better and has a very strong dealer network. however, i think for the money i'm leaning towards the challenger as getting more for your money
@@rodericksaunders5887 harley does put a better paint job on than the indian can weather the elements more. But the challenger is faster and rides better
I find it so weird that with big, expensive baggers, it is common to immediately think about aftermarket things like pipes and bars. You would think with those kinds of price tags, the stock equipment would be plenty good enough. Also, slight edge given to Indian is what a LOT of reviewers are saying. I think H/D better up the hell out of it's game if they want to hang around for another 100 years... (I like the information packed into most of your videos. Thanks.)
At least regarding the pipes and bars, it's very much a personal taste matter. Doesn't matter how nice the bars or pipes are if they're not the style you like. Obviously they can't please everyone. It's up to you to make it your own.
Your so right. I had to get after market pipes state 1 and they said the factory pipes have to be that way for EPA bs and designed to pass regulation in all 50 states. I’m in my chieftain well over $30k now. My brother in law got the HD SG and had to do same. I also got the mid rise bars and some other aftermarket stuff. But when I bought my bike I said no way I’m good as is... within 3 months I was buying after market stuff! Happy riding.
@@bjweaver3333 Yes, most people end up customizing their bike to their tastes. I was the same as you, bike is good as is... within a month, I was changing things. To me, that's a cool factor with motorcycles.
High end cars and trucks that have everything the prospective owner could ever want is still left to the imagination and why an endless supply of accessories and/or aftermarket goodies can be purchased. What you pay for something has nothing g to do with what should come with the product because it’s all market driven.
I ride a 2018 Indian Chieftain right now. As far as the Challenger, I now see aftermarket companies coming around with stuff for the Challenger. Within a year I think you'll be able to find lots of stuff for the Challenger just like the Chief series bikes and Harleys.
This turned out to be very accurate but even more so because the pipes are interchangeable between chieftain and challenger. Mine has a set of used pipes someone had on their Chieftain.
Just bought a new 2020 Roadglide limited, put about 250 miles on it so far and seems like a wonderful motorcycle, not interested in who can get to point A to point B faster. I had to go with the Harley-Davidson because of the looks, everything on the Harley just flows, it looks like it’s moving when it’s just sitting there, but I like both motorcycles, especially the fact that they are both AMERICAN MADE MUSCLE.
While I do like the RG I had to go with the Challenger. I think the RG looks good and I like the fairing and back end, I don't agree everything "flows" together. The biggest problem I have with RG styling is the wide open spaces around the motor and the tank. Where as the Indians gas tank sweeps right over the motor and everything ties in together. Also the dash situation is just leeps and bounds better on the Indian amd actually flows together. Having the speedo and tach up top where you can easily see and the touch screen below where it is much easier to reach is just a no brainer. While I don't necessarily have to be the fastest from point A to B... no One will complain about having too much passing power! But what really sold me on the Challenger was just how much more comfortable it was and how much better it performs. The suspension and comfort is honestly not even comparable!! The brakes are better. And just how much more responsive and "flickable" the Challenger feels compared to the RG is outstanding. I'm happy you like your RG, I think they are good looking bikes myself. I hope you get many years of enjoyment out of it. I'm extremely hapoy with my Challenger and feel is a much better bike in almost every way. Safe riding and keep it shiny side up!
so... off the showroom floor and after spending $22,000+; the Harley lays down 75HP at the rear wheel... the Indian- 105HP at the rear wheel. Gee- 'decisions - decisions'
@@JackTulsen77 I think you meant to say- "Now I understand why your 2006 Nightrain will be your last Harley." and... I don't want a sportbike- I want value for my money. Harley dug their own grave and I'm not jumping in the hole.
I am going with an Indian, you keep bringing up after market and unfortunately HD business model is based on ripping off customers in parts that should already be on the bike with that insane sticker price, Indian gives the customer so much more for the price and frankly a better ride. Most riders do not have endless funds to throw at a motorcycle. All HD did the last 2 years was repaint the previous year model, they need to up the game to get me back. Really thorough review Thanks.
Great review - having just bought a Challenger and putting a hundred miles on it, I believe you are spot on. Let’s see how it does after a year or two of hard riding. BTW - my stock seat on my 2014 Limited UC is still very comfy after 35K miles 😎
Most important numbers that REALLY matter and not mentioned at all, is the rear suspension travel on these bikes. 54.60mm (2 1/4inches) on the HD and 114mm (4 1/2inches) on the Indian and believe me these numbers matter heaps unless you do all your riding on billiard tables ! Let's not even mention the Indian's lack of unwanted frame flex, something that HD tourers still suffer from even after the 2009 patch job they did, yes that's right, way back in 2009 they knew it needed something and they did the bare minimum for the next 11 years, let's hope 2021 finally brings a much better chassis for the touring range.
Its a joke. That is why I got rid of my CVO for a challenger. Got a quote of $10K and it would still get smoked by the Challenger. See the races where the stage 4’s and 131’s are still smoking these upgrades with a simple flash. Best decision I made. The radio on the ride command can be a bit of an issue, but that is all I got to complain about.
Bama HI Your comment is the only one that is appropriate. I’m sure the Challenger is a good motorcycle. Period. I do have a problem calling it an Indian. It’s a Polaris. I own a 49 Indian. It’s the genuine article. I am curious if sales would suffer if it read Polaris in big letters on the gas tank. Thanks for your comment.
Looks like HD needs to really step up their game here. It's hard to pay a premium on the HD as much as I love them when Indian has so many advantages for the money. I really want to want a Road Glide lol!!
FXDR-S1000R Eli C. That’s true....but they’re also providing jobs in other countries....After riding Harley-Davidson’s for over 50 years it’s my hope that both companies remain successful now and in the future!!
I think the key word here is assembled. Most parts are made overseas and shipped here and assembled. There are very few things 100% american made and honestly if they were no one would be able to afford it.
Japanese companies provide more jobs in the us for auto workers than US companies so American made american jobs can be said for honda goldwings for 30 years
John M That’s probably because our politicians aand corporation sold us out along with unfair trade practices. Competition is a good thing but they need to level the playing field
The development of the Challenger is just getting started. All you speak of here and what customers will ask for will eventually find it’s way to another year’s Challenger. That’s the way Indian/ Polaris works. Never settling for status quo and performance driven. Never getting comfortable because they’ve always been in a survival mode fighting to maintain market share and continue strong growth. They kept at it with a talent pool to create a winning combination with this bike. It just takes coming up to bat and making consistent base hits to move you around the bases to score. Indian is scoring. Slowly setting the bar for others to achieve. Harley got way to comfortable, much like a well fed Hog. Once they figure out who they are and why are they here, they’ll wake up and come screaming back at some point.
THIS. Watching the models change in small ways over the years, you can tell Indian/Polaris actually listens to the customers VERY well. Meanwhile, Harley churns out the exact same bike with different paint for 10 years. Well, except for the occasional "we gave it 4 more cubes so she has no more HP than the last one, but she did gain 4 ftlb.....buy one."
Great review. Been trying to research myself and the bias is on both side. Have only owned Harleys but it looks like I at least need to throw a leg over the Challenger.
I agree with the seat thing @ 11:55. Why do pretty much all bikes (at least cruiser bikes) come out with these hard uncomfortable seats? Seems like no matter what bike I'm looking at (Harley, Indian to some extent, Yamaha, Kawi, etc), the stock seat is pretty terrible and I'd be looking for something like a Mustang seat pretty much the very next day.
Harley gives 2 year unlimited miles warranty you can buy more... price as per web sights... 2 of the 3 Indian is slightly higher... the limited... Harley is slightly higher
I like em both minus the indian front. That said, I'll get whichever is cheaper 5 years from now. Still shocked a person would spend 30k on a bike then only put 10 thousand miles on it. But it works out for me.
@@martincvitkovich724 , yep. There are many of us out there with multiple bikes. Instead of trying to make one bike do everything which means it doesn't do everything well, we have different bikes for different types of riding. I have the Harley touring bike, a sport bike, and adventure bike, and a street legal off road bike currently in my garage. I've had as many as 8 bikes in the garage when I couldn't stay off craigslist during the last recession.
The new Triumph Rocket is water cooled, has no push rods but has an overhead cam. It has a linear torque and power curve, its lighter about 650 lbs, ....and it puts out more Horsepower and Torque (Horsepower is 165, Torque is 163 Ft-Lbs) and it costs around 23K. It doesn't come with a huge fairing or a stereo system, the screen on the GT bike is small but offers some shelter from the wind...the saddle bags are small...so not as comfortable but in terms of performance...it's in a different universe. In terms of cost it is about $1K-2K more...but in terms of dollars to horsepower/weight and torque/weight ratios....its a far better value for your money.
I can't agree more that the Indian is better than the H-D. It has been since the Roadmaster came out. But I do take exception to your comments dismissing seats, lighting, and bars as relevant comparison items. This reflects a legacy mindset from a world where the product (H-D) was generally ill-suited for anyone and needed to be modified to be rideable. Mine was. Objectively however, Indian has built a product that makes mods optional because it is supremely safe, functional, and comfortable for the most riders right off the showroom floor. The Harley has to be modded to be comparable (ref. Lighting, bars, and seat.)
Great review! As a Harley owner it saddens me to see Harley continue to go downhill as a company. This review is another example of why. They have rested in their larols for too long, and they are paying the price! Will Harley be able to or even try to respond to the Challenger? Time will tell.
Totally agree. I own a Harley Fatboy and an Indian Roadmaster and I think Harley has just sat back and continued to collect the cash from its aging user base while the 'Challenger' Indian is coming on strong and fast and is eating into Harley's market share. My old Electraglide Ultra is no match for my new Roadmaster - they seem like centuries apart in ride quality, power and technology. Harley better wake-up, jump in the saddle and giddy-up because the Indian Dark Horses are coming.
Indian went for the jugular and HD is dead. HD should have taken there billion dollar profits in the past and invested in there company. Or just keep making T-shirts.
Na dude. Harleys are 100 to 1 on Indians on the road. Hell ill always buy harley before indian. Alot of people dont like that futuristic alien look indian seems to go for. Really indian is just a mkre expensive polaris
So basically the Indian is better but if u get the harley, you get to brag and say you have a Harley ? ...and this is coming from a guy with a 2018 road glide myself ..I’m def thinking of switching over to Indian , it just seems like you get a lot more bang for your buck
I bought a 2022 Road Glide special over the Challlenger, because RD has better premium feel finish, not cheap bunch plastic feel. Sturdier feel challenger rattles abd feels loose. I bought the HD for the culture history and community. HD has better support through out the country. I didn't buy a HD for being the fastest bikes out there or the most bells and whistle. If that was the case I would have kept some of the sports and sport touring bikes I had like my KTM Adventure. I can tell you the KTM was a way better ride for comfort and performance than the Road Glide and I'm positive it's better than the challenger too. Everyone else is trying to come off and look like a Harley. So I bought the original, no regrets.
what is your recommendation for "short armed" guys on the Road Glide Special for handle bars? I put Yaffe's on my 2020 RGS but they're a little more forward than i wanted.
Ok people so I've ridden both bikes and liked them both. What it comes down to is you want the feel and connection with that v twin. That challenger is so smooth and quiet, it is a different ride.you may not like it if you are an old school H D or indian rider.
Good Comparis and not overly biased.. The Indian is Great Stock but if you like spending many Thousands more or aftermarket to make the Harely closer to the Indian J&P would love to sell you the parts..
The Challenger is a superior bike in every way. But buy what you want. If i am spending that much money on a bike i shouldn't have to spend money to upgrade anything to get decent performance.
HD has more aftermarket options bc it NEEDS THEM. But having options is what makes ownership fun. Nothing is more dull than wanting to change afew things and having no options or only one to choose from.
Dude, you really do these comparison well.. great job at covering so much. Sounds like we finally have a Vee Twin, open road bike that truly can compare with a Goldwing bagger in the Indian Challenger in power delivery and braking and cornering.. now lets do a JP Cycle style comparison between the two..
No cam is going to make that Road Glide on par with the Challenger, a stage 4 117 cannot even beat it LOL. Can hang with on top end, but off the line or 3rd gear take offs are not even close.
@@mattshaggs2931 , that is every motorcycle manufacturer's business model and it is a good model. Provide what is necessary to make it your own. Not every rider is 5'9" tall. Every manufacturer offers different handlbars, seats, etc. to help make the bike fit different riders. I easily add $3000 to $5000 in upgrades / accessories to every bike I have owned, unless it was a used bike that already had all the upgrades I was looking for. Suspension, seats, luggage, shields, crash bars, brake pads, swingarm spools, radiator guards, GPS systems, etc. I have owned bikes from every Japanese manufacturer, several European, and in 2018 got my first Harley.
@@Dave-sw2dm nice try but there's fundamental difference between A) customizing your bike to your likings and B) customizing it to make it at least comparable to its competitors in their stock form
It's great we have choice between 2 American iconic brands..by Indian building a very modern plant will eventually force HD to do the same..U can't rely on name alone!! Market too competitive these days n buyers are more informed..I think both companies should focus on building a smaller under 1000cc bikes that r more affordable to the younger generation...that may help build interest n bring sales up for both Indian n HD..Ride Safe!!
Let's hope not! If I want the performance that the Indian engine puts out, I will buy a Ducati Multistrada and run circles around the Indian. I own my bagger for what it is. A comfortable cruiser that still handles well.
tmar 007 , for me they are not apples to apples. To me the compares more to the gold wing because of its liquid cooled power plant and new age looks and lighting. I know Indian tried to blend Indian with Victory in the looks and it does nothing for me personally. Actually if I wanted a liquid cooled touring bike I would buy the gold wing or BMW over the Challenger. I was personally hoping for a Springfield with frame mounted fairing.
The Challenger is clearly a wake-up call to HD. HD needed it. They had been too stagnant for too long. That's having been said, the liquid-cooled motor they released in the Pan-America is a soft, but positive response. They are feeling out the market before they try to add that motor to their bread-and-butter cruiser line. I wouldn't be surprised if a variation of that motor eventually makes it's way to a performance bagger in the future.
J& P cycles. Is the fairing on the Indian bigger than the one on the Harley-Davidson. Which gives better wind protection in very cold weather? Does Indian have lower fairings? The heat from the engine would be higjer from a v twin..does the OHC head make a higjer center of gravity than ohv? Harley s used to have dry sump for a lower.cg. with surprising great handling. The road glide is difficult to pick up.if dropped. Indian? I think this is more to top heavy bike than to weight. What about the Boss Hoss? Do you call a tow truck? Aftermarket: can I increase range w bigger or auxiliary fuel tank. I want to keep the medalion though. I am toying with the idea of a ( larger?) panhead w same bore- stroke ratio. My dear panhead. How can I hear one with vance& hines slip ons. The road glide sounds more beautiful than with Reinharts..oh yes I bought a buddy seat long before. It is incomparable to anything else. I need hardware. The rosd glide has holes to accommodate a bracket (?) so I can bolt it on the front. As for springs I'll have to rig something up.
I rode both the Glide and Challenger but neither of them have the motor, handling, brakes etc to a 1600 k Bagger. I have a Chieftain but after testing the Beemer that is my new ride
so your concern is the stereo and it's accessibility to you because you're shorter? Shouldn't you be concentrating on the road rather then anything else?
A 43 mm fork on such a heavy bike as the Challenger seems pretty wimpy to say the least as do 320mm rotors with 4 pot calipers. Those are the same specs for my 500 lb sport touring bike, so when I hear that the Challenger handles and brakes well, it must be subjective to big, heavy 900 lb cruisers. If the Challenger is clearly superior in one most distinct way, it would be the water cooled OHC engine. Sure you can throw cam in the 107, more power is more heat yet, and heat is the #1 engine killer. Couldn't imagine being stuck in traffic on a scorching hot day, without a water cooled engine. Have to agree on the far superior HD dealer network if you need help on the road. And the HD aftermarket is by far the best for all kinds of things, not just cams etc. Good comparo, thanks.
Best buy in a bagger out there. I had a '10 Vulcan Voyager for 60,000 miles. If a Vaquero showed up on my local craigslist in the lime green it would hard to pass up.
I wish Polaris would have kept going with the Victory line rather than jumping at the Indian. I prefer the looks of the Victory Cross Country and Vision over any Indian model.
No mention of dealer support Harley would definitely win that category and could be a huge difference when choosing between them. Great review nonetheless! 👍
Mark Spaulding Not exactly. I can’t remember which video it was here but it was a really good breakdown of the dealer support. HD has about 500 or so dealers across the country whereas Indian has about 150 or so. HD’s numbers are pretty inflated because they will have sometimes up to 5 or so dealers in a single city where Indian has just the one per city. Pretty much wherever you are in the county except for a few select dead spots for Indian, there’s normally an Indian dealer not too much farther than an HD dealer.
@@mattshaggs2931 Didn't Indian have challengers with engine bearings failing in the first 50 miles, potentially locking up the bike and issue a recall? Harley had an issue with a valve cover gasket leak a few years back on the m8s... which is unreliable? Harley hasn't made a shovelhead since the early 80s. Find a new argument.
@@JackTulsen77 You're argument is terrible. 616 Challengers were possibly assembled without enough pre-lube on the output shaft bearing to the belt. If it had over 50 miles with no failure already, you were good. Meanwhile, the M8 has had 5 oil pump revisions, none of which were issued for recall even though they were known problems (look in any forum for MY2017-2019 oil pump failures). What about the entire "cam tensioner" problem in the Twin Cam that had practically every buyer trying to change over to gear driven cams if Harley actually machined the case/crank well enough to meet the tolerance specs? Knew more than a few people that couldn't because the machining from the factory was so sloppy in those Twin Cams. Let's also overlook the 251,000+ Harley's recalled for bad master cylinders causing brake failure, the 44,000 Street models recalled for brake caliper corrosion that caused brake failure, the 27,232 recalled for bad clutch master cylinders and so on and so on... We have to make your brand look good despite the terrible reliability stats of 1 in 4 have a major failure in the first 4 years of ownership at, get this, 3,800 miles per year according to CR...so, 1 in 4 chance of a major failure on your Harley within 15,200 miles. But, yes...Indian recalled 616 bikes. Lol
Euro 5 emissions now with Euro 6 around the corners, makes it tough for air cooled motors. Like how safety is Standard on Indian with Stability control with cornering ABS. So many other manufacturers make stability control standard. Harley stages should come from the factory vs you spending thousands on a depreciating asset to develop power that should come standard from the factory. More locked ECU’s in the future. The Indian is the most bang for the buck vs Harley’s new paint jobs every year. Premium car manufacturers, like Porsche, offer more horsepower and tech every year not just paint jobs. Many bikes offer more aluminum and composites like carbon to keep weight down. Bigger heavier engines are cheaper vs lightening the bike which helps everything like braking, acceleration, and handling. Even powder coat rusts in high humid/salty environments
For more info on our experience with the Indian Challenger and Harley Davidson Road Glide, check out the full article on Countersteer: bit.ly/3gdXYIN
OMG. I don't know if you wrote the copy for this review or someone else produced the content but this was unbelievable. I have watched countless hours of motorcycle reviews/ comparisons and always felt cheated out of my time, but this was the best I've ever seen!
The first proper review on these bikes! Many thx!
Thanks Thanks
I ride a 1993 softail springer. I just test rode a 2022 challenger dark horse and i was blown away. That is gonna be definitely my next bike.
Traded in my Harley for the Challenger. Best decision ever! Better power, brakes, suspension, stereo, and the frame does not flex. Handles awesome and does not feel or act like a heavy bike.
frame flexed on harley ehh?
@@sean8470 yes, I got the speed wobbles on the Ultra.
@@MotoXplor was that with the batwing fairing or fixed
@@sean8470 That was a batwing. It was also a 2017, I believe, and after they had gone to a newer frame.
Brave Choice, man! Congrats!
Love those Indian motorcycles!
They just keep getting better and better!!👍
I just bought a 2020 Road Glide Special and baby I fell in love instantly
So u clearly never test rode a Indian first.
"you could build this bike into a performer"---Road Glide
"you're probably not going to see much for this bike, and honestly it doesn't really need that much"--Indian
That is the positive for the HD? That you can throw more money at it to make it adequate? That's a terrible reason...you shouldn't HAVE to!
Yes but J&P is in the business of selling Motorycle accessories..
@@mikeskidmore6754 Bingo.
sigh
This is actually a big selling feature for Harley. For some reason people like having to do upgrades to their bikes.
They are both freakin touring bikes. I can buy a $10k Kawasaki that will put them both to shame. Personally, I have moved away from liquid cooled and high tech features on bikes as I have grown to appreciate the form and artistry of motorcycles where the engine is the centerpiece. All 4 of my current bikes from different manufacturers and genres are air cooled twins or thumpers with a couple of them having an external oil cooler. They are beautiful machines and I only change on them the items that make them more personal for me and better at holding the roads I ride. This means accessories and suspension upgrades. I have a Road Glide Special and it is a beautiful machine. I can't get past the Ford F150 lights on the Challenger and don't like them on F150 either.
the harley looks better and has a very strong dealer network. however, i think for the money i'm leaning towards the challenger as getting more for your money
I agree... Im a harley guy. But I can't take nothing away from Indian! It is a nice BIKE
@@rodericksaunders5887 harley does put a better paint job on than the indian can weather the elements more. But the challenger is faster and rides better
I find it so weird that with big, expensive baggers, it is common to immediately think about aftermarket things like pipes and bars.
You would think with those kinds of price tags, the stock equipment would be plenty good enough.
Also, slight edge given to Indian is what a LOT of reviewers are saying.
I think H/D better up the hell out of it's game if they want to hang around for another 100 years...
(I like the information packed into most of your videos. Thanks.)
At least regarding the pipes and bars, it's very much a personal taste matter. Doesn't matter how nice the bars or pipes are if they're not the style you like. Obviously they can't please everyone. It's up to you to make it your own.
Your so right. I had to get after market pipes state 1 and they said the factory pipes have to be that way for EPA bs and designed to pass regulation in all 50 states. I’m in my chieftain well over $30k now. My brother in law got the HD SG and had to do same. I also got the mid rise bars and some other aftermarket stuff. But when I bought my bike I said no way I’m good as is... within 3 months I was buying after market stuff! Happy riding.
@@bjweaver3333 Yes, most people end up customizing their bike to their tastes. I was the same as you, bike is good as is... within a month, I was changing things. To me, that's a cool factor with motorcycles.
I see a lot of aftermarket bars and exhaust on many bikes, not just expensive cruisers.
High end cars and trucks that have everything the prospective owner could ever want is still left to the imagination and why an endless supply of accessories and/or aftermarket goodies can be purchased. What you pay for something has nothing g to do with what should come with the product because it’s all market driven.
Show me a review where the word "modified" isn't used in conjunction with anything HD.
Just as HD likes it. $
I ride a 2018 Indian Chieftain right now. As far as the Challenger, I now see aftermarket companies coming around with stuff for the Challenger. Within a year I think you'll be able to find lots of stuff for the Challenger just like the Chief series bikes and Harleys.
This turned out to be very accurate but even more so because the pipes are interchangeable between chieftain and challenger. Mine has a set of used pipes someone had on their Chieftain.
22 years with Harley I just switched from my roadglide and just bought a Challenger, absolutely love it, its a Beast!!! And So smooth.
Great, honest review, Patrick. I appreciate how you remove the brand influence and just give an honest review.
This is the first honest review I have seen. Thanks for doing such a good job on the review. Looking forward to more of your videos.
Patrick you did a very fair Analysis, Been waiting for a side by side-comparison.... Thanks Patrick...👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Just bought a new 2020 Roadglide limited, put about 250 miles on it so far and seems like a wonderful motorcycle, not interested in who can get to point A to point B faster. I had to go with the Harley-Davidson because of the looks, everything on the Harley just flows, it looks like it’s moving when it’s just sitting there, but I like both motorcycles, especially the fact that they are both AMERICAN MADE MUSCLE.
....... with a lot of imported parts!
ClemsonFan4life Good for you, if you like what you have don’t let anyone tell you different.
While I do like the RG I had to go with the Challenger. I think the RG looks good and I like the fairing and back end, I don't agree everything "flows" together. The biggest problem I have with RG styling is the wide open spaces around the motor and the tank. Where as the Indians gas tank sweeps right over the motor and everything ties in together. Also the dash situation is just leeps and bounds better on the Indian amd actually flows together. Having the speedo and tach up top where you can easily see and the touch screen below where it is much easier to reach is just a no brainer. While I don't necessarily have to be the fastest from point A to B... no One will complain about having too much passing power! But what really sold me on the Challenger was just how much more comfortable it was and how much better it performs. The suspension and comfort is honestly not even comparable!! The brakes are better. And just how much more responsive and "flickable" the Challenger feels compared to the RG is outstanding. I'm happy you like your RG, I think they are good looking bikes myself. I hope you get many years of enjoyment out of it. I'm extremely hapoy with my Challenger and feel is a much better bike in almost every way. Safe riding and keep it shiny side up!
so... off the showroom floor and after spending $22,000+; the Harley lays down 75HP at the rear wheel... the Indian- 105HP at the rear wheel. Gee- 'decisions - decisions'
And if hp is the deciding factor why aren't you getting a sportbike?
What's the Screaming Eagle kit do ?
@@JackTulsen77 I think you meant to say- "Now I understand why your 2006 Nightrain will be your last Harley." and... I don't want a sportbike- I want value for my money. Harley dug their own grave and I'm not jumping in the hole.
Exactly. Harley wants another $6k for after purchase upgrades.. to make the bike what it shoulda been to start with! Fucking ripoff bullshit from HD.
@@JackTulsen77 or better still, a Triumph Rocket 3
I am going with an Indian, you keep bringing up after market and unfortunately HD business model is based on ripping off customers in parts that should already be on the bike with that insane sticker price, Indian gives the customer so much more for the price and frankly a better ride. Most riders do not have endless funds to throw at a motorcycle. All HD did the last 2 years was repaint the previous year model, they need to up the game to get me back. Really thorough review Thanks.
Great review - having just bought a Challenger and putting a hundred miles on it, I believe you are spot on. Let’s see how it does after a year or two of hard riding. BTW - my stock seat on my 2014 Limited UC is still very comfy after 35K miles 😎
Most important numbers that REALLY matter and not mentioned at all, is the rear suspension travel on these bikes. 54.60mm (2 1/4inches) on the HD and 114mm (4 1/2inches) on the Indian and believe me these numbers matter heaps unless you do all your riding on billiard tables !
Let's not even mention the Indian's lack of unwanted frame flex, something that HD tourers still suffer from even after the 2009 patch job they did, yes that's right, way back in 2009 they knew it needed something and they did the bare minimum for the next 11 years, let's hope 2021 finally brings a much better chassis for the touring range.
So, for only $8-$10k more, you can upgrade the RG to match the Indian. Sweet deal, HD.
Its a joke. That is why I got rid of my CVO for a challenger. Got a quote of $10K and it would still get smoked by the Challenger. See the races where the stage 4’s and 131’s are still smoking these upgrades with a simple flash. Best decision I made. The radio on the ride command can be a bit of an issue, but that is all I got to complain about.
Great, detailed and well balanced review.
It's your money people. Buy the one that makes you happy.
Exactly.
Bama HI Your comment is the only one that is appropriate. I’m sure the Challenger is a good motorcycle. Period. I do have a problem calling it an Indian. It’s a Polaris. I own a 49 Indian. It’s the genuine article. I am curious if sales would suffer if it read Polaris in big letters on the gas tank. Thanks for your comment.
@@JC-oc7um , yes then we would be saying the Polaris slays the Curry Powered(motor made in India) harley.
It is an indian though. Just as your indian is an indian. Just as a 1969 ford is a ford, a 1911 model t is a ford and a 2021 bronco will be a ford.
Looks like HD needs to really step up their game here. It's hard to pay a premium on the HD as much as I love them when Indian has so many advantages for the money. I really want to want a Road Glide lol!!
Very detailed and comprehensive review. As a new rider who’s looking for a bike this video was helpful
So glad you guys made an honest and fair review. Subscribed.
Awesome review and appreciate the honesty!
Looks like the test rides were in the Black Hills. Thanks for a impartial review!
I just traded my 18 CVO RG in for a23 Pursuit and can’t wait for a new riding chapter after having 5 HD,s !! Still kept my King to hop around town
Very nice and honest review! I love my Challenger!
Either or...Both American companies, Both provide American Jobs, H-D or Polaris.
FXDR-S1000R Eli C. That’s true....but they’re also providing jobs in other countries....After riding Harley-Davidson’s for over 50 years it’s my hope that both companies remain successful now and in the future!!
I think the key word here is assembled. Most parts are made overseas and shipped here and assembled. There are very few things 100% american made and honestly if they were no one would be able to afford it.
Japanese companies provide more jobs in the us for auto workers than US companies so American made american jobs can be said for honda goldwings for 30 years
John M
That’s probably because our politicians aand corporation sold us out along with unfair trade practices. Competition is a good thing but they need to level the playing field
@@donm219 I mean that is a super simple way of putting that. I was also generalizing saying my 1982 honda is as American as a 2020 Harley,
Thank you for a great review and point-by-point comparison on these two great bikes!
I like both of them, and I'm a cruiser guy, but NO music. Do they come hard wired with "Hotel California" at 120 decibles?
So this basically proves that Harley’s have been selling subpar, outdated, and overpriced bikes for a while now.
for 100 years
Great & informative review.....well done! Thank you!
The development of the Challenger is just getting started. All you speak of here and what customers will ask for will eventually find it’s way to another year’s Challenger. That’s the way Indian/ Polaris works. Never settling for status quo and performance driven. Never getting comfortable because they’ve always been in a survival mode fighting to maintain market share and continue strong growth. They kept at it with a talent pool to create a winning combination with this bike. It just takes coming up to bat and making consistent base hits to move you around the bases to score. Indian is scoring. Slowly setting the bar for others to achieve. Harley got way to comfortable, much like a well fed Hog. Once they figure out who they are and why are they here, they’ll wake up and come screaming back at some point.
THIS. Watching the models change in small ways over the years, you can tell Indian/Polaris actually listens to the customers VERY well. Meanwhile, Harley churns out the exact same bike with different paint for 10 years. Well, except for the occasional "we gave it 4 more cubes so she has no more HP than the last one, but she did gain 4 ftlb.....buy one."
I'll TAKE the Indian ANY DAY!
Thanks for that comparison...very informative 👍
Great review. Been trying to research myself and the bias is on both side. Have only owned Harleys but it looks like I at least need to throw a leg over the Challenger.
You'll never go back
I agree with the seat thing @ 11:55. Why do pretty much all bikes (at least cruiser bikes) come out with these hard uncomfortable seats? Seems like no matter what bike I'm looking at (Harley, Indian to some extent, Yamaha, Kawi, etc), the stock seat is pretty terrible and I'd be looking for something like a Mustang seat pretty much the very next day.
Actually the stock Indian seat is great, check out Ridingfish here on youtube, just put 7500 miles on his Challenger w/stock seat.
Wow so impressed what a comprehensive comparison don't see that too often well done!
Its nice to buy a bike with everything you want in performance without having to "add it as an option". I know what I'm buying.
What is price, warranty, different between the two bikes tested as they sit????
Harley gives 2 year unlimited miles warranty you can buy more... price as per web sights... 2 of the 3 Indian is slightly higher... the limited... Harley is slightly higher
Lloyd's tuning has cams pipes and ECU engine updates for the Indian Challenger.
I like em both minus the indian front. That said, I'll get whichever is cheaper 5 years from now. Still shocked a person would spend 30k on a bike then only put 10 thousand miles on it. But it works out for me.
I may have figured that out. The guy with a high dollar bike with low miles may just have ten different bikes!
@@martincvitkovich724 , yep. There are many of us out there with multiple bikes. Instead of trying to make one bike do everything which means it doesn't do everything well, we have different bikes for different types of riding. I have the Harley touring bike, a sport bike, and adventure bike, and a street legal off road bike currently in my garage. I've had as many as 8 bikes in the garage when I couldn't stay off craigslist during the last recession.
5 wasted years of your life...just to save money?
Ditto...New is for Suckers!
The new Triumph Rocket is water cooled, has no push rods but has an overhead cam. It has a linear torque and power curve, its lighter about 650 lbs, ....and it puts out more Horsepower and Torque (Horsepower is 165, Torque is 163 Ft-Lbs) and it costs around 23K. It doesn't come with a huge fairing or a stereo system, the screen on the GT bike is small but offers some shelter from the wind...the saddle bags are small...so not as comfortable but in terms of performance...it's in a different universe. In terms of cost it is about $1K-2K more...but in terms of dollars to horsepower/weight and torque/weight ratios....its a far better value for your money.
I can't agree more that the Indian is better than the H-D. It has been since the Roadmaster came out. But I do take exception to your comments dismissing seats, lighting, and bars as relevant comparison items. This reflects a legacy mindset from a world where the product (H-D) was generally ill-suited for anyone and needed to be modified to be rideable. Mine was. Objectively however, Indian has built a product that makes mods optional because it is supremely safe, functional, and comfortable for the most riders right off the showroom floor. The Harley has to be modded to be comparable (ref. Lighting, bars, and seat.)
THANK-YOU for this review! One of the best comparisons I have seen!
Good review; very factual!
Great review! As a Harley owner it saddens me to see Harley continue to go downhill as a company. This review is another example of why. They have rested in their larols for too long, and they are paying the price! Will Harley be able to or even try to respond to the Challenger? Time will tell.
Totally agree. I own a Harley Fatboy and an Indian Roadmaster and I think Harley has just sat back and continued to collect the cash from its aging user base while the 'Challenger' Indian is coming on strong and fast and is eating into Harley's market share. My old Electraglide Ultra is no match for my new Roadmaster - they seem like centuries apart in ride quality, power and technology. Harley better wake-up, jump in the saddle and giddy-up because the Indian Dark Horses are coming.
Harley will hopefully up their game.
Excellent video brother!! Keep’em comin!! 🙌🏻 😀
Great review
Boston to LA and back, Challenger or Goldwing ? thanks great video
Indian went for the jugular and HD is dead. HD should have taken there billion dollar profits in the past and invested in there company. Or just keep making T-shirts.
Theyre just a big texile company these days.
Na dude. Harleys are 100 to 1 on Indians on the road. Hell ill always buy harley before indian. Alot of people dont like that futuristic alien look indian seems to go for. Really indian is just a mkre expensive polaris
Guess that’s why Harley dealers showroom are basically empty and dealers are having one of their highest sales years.
It would be nice if either HD or Indian made a tourer about 850/900 cc with shaft drive.Great review, thank you.
guess I'm old, have been riding HD since 1978 and don't think myself changing anytime soon regardless of gizmos, tires, et al.
I agree !I started riding Harley’s in 1976 I bought a 1975 sportster . I have owned 12 Harley’s since then , and now have a 2016 streetglide16 .
@@rickrice7592 bravo and fantastic, mine was, (still have the bike and am really proud of that S&S carb), a 1976 Bagger
H-D since 80 just bought a Challenger and my god am I happy I did!!!
@@jamescoppola Happy trails to you
I bought both of these bikes.
So basically the Indian is better but if u get the harley, you get to brag and say you have a Harley ? ...and this is coming from a guy with a 2018 road glide myself ..I’m def thinking of switching over to Indian , it just seems like you get a lot more bang for your buck
Good for you , stay away from the dark side .
props for being open to switching brands
I just ordered a 2020 Road Glide
So sorry. lol
You'll love it, I bought myself for Christmas the 2020 FLTRXS, something to be said about those 114" motors
Thanks I know I love the styling over the Indian.
@@mrfast2win Na, great bike, way better than the pretender Indian, only real Indian is what i own, pre bankrupt Indian!!!!!
@max - if more bike less money equals pretender then guilty as charged!
I bought a 2022 Road Glide special over the Challlenger, because RD has better premium feel finish, not cheap bunch plastic feel. Sturdier feel challenger rattles abd feels loose. I bought the HD for the culture history and community. HD has better support through out the country. I didn't buy a HD for being the fastest bikes out there or the most bells and whistle. If that was the case I would have kept some of the sports and sport touring bikes I had like my KTM Adventure. I can tell you the KTM was a way better ride for comfort and performance than the Road Glide and I'm positive it's better than the challenger too. Everyone else is trying to come off and look like a Harley. So I bought the original, no regrets.
I have test ridden both Harley-Davidson Road Glide & the Polaris Indian Challenger & I bought the Harley-Davidson🦅 Road Glide.
Do you have a full review on the Indian Challenger Darkhorse ?
Good work, Patrick you did a very fair Analysis,
Very detailed, unbiased and informative video !
thanks!
Who is the GPS vendor on the Indian? The HD GPS has been a pain since it came out, functional, but difficult to use efficiently.
Agree about the HD GPS, not sure who makes the Indian GPS.
“Limited aftermarket performance options” laughs in lloyds
Excellent review with tons of great input. Thanks
what is your recommendation for "short armed" guys on the Road Glide Special for handle bars? I put Yaffe's on my 2020 RGS but they're a little more forward than i wanted.
Ok people so I've ridden both bikes and liked them both. What it comes down to is you want the feel and connection with that v twin. That challenger is so smooth and quiet, it is a different ride.you may not like it if you are an old school H D or indian rider.
Good Comparis and not overly biased.. The Indian is Great Stock but if you like spending many Thousands more or aftermarket to make the Harely closer to the Indian J&P would love to sell you the parts..
The Challenger is a superior bike in every way. But buy what you want. If i am spending that much money on a bike i shouldn't have to spend money to upgrade anything to get decent performance.
HD has more aftermarket options bc it NEEDS THEM. But having options is what makes ownership fun. Nothing is more dull than wanting to change afew things and having no options or only one to choose from.
Never fun putting good money after bad . You will never get your money back with aftermarket parts.
When I'm older and have enough to buy one of these I will have a hard choice to make I love both of theses bikes
Dude, you really do these comparison well.. great job at covering so much. Sounds like we finally have a Vee Twin, open road bike that truly can compare with a Goldwing bagger in the Indian Challenger in power delivery and braking and cornering.. now lets do a JP Cycle style comparison between the two..
No cam is going to make that Road Glide on par with the Challenger, a stage 4 117 cannot even beat it LOL. Can hang with on top end, but off the line or 3rd gear take offs are not even close.
Does the Indian have support for Android Auto and Apple Carplay?
Llyodz is already working on engine performance mods for the Challenger so it will soon be upgradeable to get even more performance
💯Indian Motorcycle Are #1 Faster & Far More Beautiful than a Harley !!!
You will change the bars, seat, accessories so I won't review them... I'm sorry, but for $20k plus, the damn thing better tickle my pickle.
That's the entire Harley business model. Buy a $30k motorcycle and then add $6k in bolt-ons to "make it your own."
@@mattshaggs2931 , that is every motorcycle manufacturer's business model and it is a good model. Provide what is necessary to make it your own. Not every rider is 5'9" tall. Every manufacturer offers different handlbars, seats, etc. to help make the bike fit different riders. I easily add $3000 to $5000 in upgrades / accessories to every bike I have owned, unless it was a used bike that already had all the upgrades I was looking for. Suspension, seats, luggage, shields, crash bars, brake pads, swingarm spools, radiator guards, GPS systems, etc. I have owned bikes from every Japanese manufacturer, several European, and in 2018 got my first Harley.
@@Dave-sw2dm nice try but there's fundamental difference between A) customizing your bike to your likings and B) customizing it to make it at least comparable to its competitors in their stock form
Jaroslav Záruba , 🙀
Great review and honest replies all the way around.
It's great we have choice between 2 American iconic brands..by Indian building a very modern plant will eventually force HD to do the same..U can't rely on name alone!!
Market too competitive these days n buyers are more informed..I think both companies should focus on building a smaller under 1000cc bikes that r more affordable to the younger generation...that may help build interest n bring sales up for both Indian n HD..Ride Safe!!
Let's hope not! If I want the performance that the Indian engine puts out, I will buy a Ducati Multistrada and run circles around the Indian. I own my bagger for what it is. A comfortable cruiser that still handles well.
@@Dave-sw2dm absolutely agree...just comparing Apple's to apples...ride safe bud
tmar 007 , for me they are not apples to apples. To me the compares more to the gold wing because of its liquid cooled power plant and new age looks and lighting. I know Indian tried to blend Indian with Victory in the looks and it does nothing for me personally. Actually if I wanted a liquid cooled touring bike I would buy the gold wing or BMW over the Challenger. I was personally hoping for a Springfield with frame mounted fairing.
When did HD put TPMS on the RG?
kyle stewart MY20.
@@dawidos117 Only took 6 years to catch up to Indian on that feature
The Challenger is clearly a wake-up call to HD. HD needed it. They had been too stagnant for too long. That's having been said, the liquid-cooled motor they released in the Pan-America is a soft, but positive response. They are feeling out the market before they try to add that motor to their bread-and-butter cruiser line.
I wouldn't be surprised if a variation of that motor eventually makes it's way to a performance bagger in the future.
J& P cycles. Is the fairing on the Indian bigger than the one on the Harley-Davidson. Which gives better wind protection in very cold weather? Does Indian have lower fairings? The heat from the engine would be higjer from a v twin..does the OHC head make a higjer center of gravity than ohv? Harley s used to have dry sump for a lower.cg. with surprising great handling. The road glide is difficult to pick up.if dropped. Indian? I think this is more to top heavy bike than to weight. What about the Boss Hoss? Do you call a tow truck? Aftermarket: can I increase range w bigger or auxiliary fuel tank. I want to keep the medalion though. I am toying with the idea of a ( larger?) panhead w same bore- stroke ratio. My dear panhead. How can I hear one with vance& hines slip ons. The road glide sounds more beautiful than with Reinharts..oh yes I bought a buddy seat long before. It is incomparable to anything else. I need hardware. The rosd glide has holes to accommodate a bracket (?) so I can bolt it on the front. As for springs I'll have to rig something up.
Once you get 500 miles in the challenger the transmission really smooths out....I agree this bike likes to run 3,000-3500 rpm
Got it, Harley Davidson Roadglide it is!! Thanks for your great info!
I rode both the Glide and Challenger but neither of them have the motor, handling, brakes etc to a 1600 k Bagger. I have a Chieftain but after testing the Beemer that is my new ride
Best part is you don't have to put in thousands of dollars for up grades .
so your concern is the stereo and it's accessibility to you because you're shorter? Shouldn't you be concentrating on the road rather then anything else?
A 43 mm fork on such a heavy bike as the Challenger seems pretty wimpy to say the least as do 320mm rotors with 4 pot calipers. Those are the same specs for my 500 lb sport touring bike, so when I hear that the Challenger handles and brakes well, it must be subjective to big, heavy 900 lb cruisers. If the Challenger is clearly superior in one most distinct way, it would be the water cooled OHC engine. Sure you can throw cam in the 107, more power is more heat yet, and heat is the #1 engine killer. Couldn't imagine being stuck in traffic on a scorching hot day, without a water cooled engine. Have to agree on the far superior HD dealer network if you need help on the road. And the HD aftermarket is by far the best for all kinds of things, not just cams etc. Good comparo, thanks.
Indian most bang for the buck on a depreciating asset
What is a shorter bore
Excellent review. Wasn’t keen on the Challenger, looking more at the Chieftain til this review.
Love the Challenger but I also prefer the Chieftain to the Street Glide. The 116 Thunderstroke is nicer than the M8.
So, the challenger has an oversquare engine. That was not hard to say. Why not throw the Kawasaki Vaquero in the mix.
Best buy in a bagger out there. I had a '10 Vulcan Voyager for 60,000 miles. If a Vaquero showed up on my local craigslist in the lime green it would hard to pass up.
I wish Polaris would have kept going with the Victory line rather than jumping at the Indian. I prefer the looks of the Victory Cross Country and Vision over any Indian model.
Does the Indian have reverse? I know my Harley doesn't.
I agree hopefully by next season I will have a challenger
No mention of dealer support Harley would definitely win that category and could be a huge difference when choosing between them. Great review nonetheless! 👍
Mark Spaulding Not exactly. I can’t remember which video it was here but it was a really good breakdown of the dealer support. HD has about 500 or so dealers across the country whereas Indian has about 150 or so. HD’s numbers are pretty inflated because they will have sometimes up to 5 or so dealers in a single city where Indian has just the one per city. Pretty much wherever you are in the county except for a few select dead spots for Indian, there’s normally an Indian dealer not too much farther than an HD dealer.
Don't need dealer support near as much when the bike is twice as reliable.
@@mattshaggs2931 Didn't Indian have challengers with engine bearings failing in the first 50 miles, potentially locking up the bike and issue a recall? Harley had an issue with a valve cover gasket leak a few years back on the m8s... which is unreliable? Harley hasn't made a shovelhead since the early 80s. Find a new argument.
@@JackTulsen77 You're argument is terrible. 616 Challengers were possibly assembled without enough pre-lube on the output shaft bearing to the belt. If it had over 50 miles with no failure already, you were good.
Meanwhile, the M8 has had 5 oil pump revisions, none of which were issued for recall even though they were known problems (look in any forum for MY2017-2019 oil pump failures). What about the entire "cam tensioner" problem in the Twin Cam that had practically every buyer trying to change over to gear driven cams if Harley actually machined the case/crank well enough to meet the tolerance specs? Knew more than a few people that couldn't because the machining from the factory was so sloppy in those Twin Cams.
Let's also overlook the 251,000+ Harley's recalled for bad master cylinders causing brake failure, the 44,000 Street models recalled for brake caliper corrosion that caused brake failure, the 27,232 recalled for bad clutch master cylinders and so on and so on... We have to make your brand look good despite the terrible reliability stats of 1 in 4 have a major failure in the first 4 years of ownership at, get this, 3,800 miles per year according to CR...so, 1 in 4 chance of a major failure on your Harley within 15,200 miles.
But, yes...Indian recalled 616 bikes. Lol
Jake's Junkyard what about the m8’s that are blowing head gaskets? Oil transferring? Oh and still burning hour ass with an oil tank.
What after market seat brand do you like ?
Mustang, Saddlemen, Lepera are all great choices.
Euro 5 emissions now with Euro 6 around the corners, makes it tough for air cooled motors. Like how safety is Standard on Indian with
Stability control with cornering ABS. So many other manufacturers make stability control standard. Harley stages should come from the factory vs you spending thousands on a depreciating asset to develop power that should come standard from the factory. More locked ECU’s in the future. The Indian is the most bang for the buck vs Harley’s new paint jobs every year. Premium car manufacturers, like Porsche, offer more horsepower and tech every year not just paint jobs. Many bikes offer more aluminum and composites like carbon to keep weight down. Bigger heavier engines are cheaper vs lightening the bike which helps everything like braking, acceleration, and handling. Even powder coat rusts in high humid/salty environments
You probably didn't feel so much engine braking on downshifts due to the slipper clutch.