I think the biggest difference is the community. Other than myself I don't know anyone that owns an Indian. Most of my buddies ride Harleys. I hope sometime in the future that will change. Me personally, I don't care what your ride. As long as you're on two wheels.
Part of the appeal for me is that they are rarer. If all my friends rode Indians I'd probably go get an HD. But I love being an Indian guy in a endless sea of HD bros.
That isnthe proper mindset of a motorcyclist- I think Hollywood screwed everyone up and made these clicks. I don't know hownit started or why it exists. I don't do track bikes because I am a loonatic sometimes and I know that. So, I have a Harley- why? Everyone had them so they must be good and it was impossible to find an Indian. First Indian infound a rider was in and it was beautiful. Never seen one since. Nonetheless bobers are around and they are sharp but still Harleys are everywhere.
I was asked by all my Harley friends "why Indian?" when I bought my first bike. I have no issue with Harley but I didn't see anything I liked at the Harley dealer and the Indian Scout Bobber was exactly what I wanted in a bike. Looks, price, size (first time bike owner), and I did 3 months research and couldn't find a bad review on it. I put 12k miles in 18 months. Upgraded to a Springfield DH and have 16k miles in 2 years. Waiting for my Challenger Icon to come in right now. Most of my Harley friends are openly impressed with the fit, finish, and performance of my Indians. And they all hate that it's my bike that gets the compliments and looks from passer by'ers when we are all parked. And to the hard core Harley guys that say "it's a Polaris", I don't care. I would ride it if it said POLARIS on the tank. It's a great bike.
I’m an old guy, 76y/o, been riding since 1974. In 2014 I realized my riding days are numbered, and I’d never owned. H-D. I bought a used 2012 RGU, and loved it. In 2016, my 70th b’day, I bought a new 2016 RGU, also loved it. Been having some heart issues, and H-D, at 925 lbs was just too heavy for me to ride safely. Sold the Harley, still have 2 BMWs, so not ready to quit riding! Great video - really like your style!
I started in 1970. Now I ride my son’s Superlight so as long as you’re happy riding below 60mph every day and just want super-comfort with lightness and economy I suggest you test drive one.
Props to you my friend. I wish you many more rides and wrench turning and I pray I not only make it to 76 but be able to ride at 76 as well. Be blessed sir.
You inspire me so much. I turn 62 next month and thought I was a tad old to be buying a new LowRider Sport next month for my birthday. The bike weighs a manageable 720 lbs with that very tasty 117 Cubic engine. . My last bike 15 years ago was a Street glide which was close to 850 lbs. But I was thinking I was a tad old to get back in the saddle until I read you are 76 and still riding. Stay safe my friend and safe travels!!
Truth is, Harley is a very as aesthetically pleasing bike, but the people are something else. You’re not wrong about the dealerships. I work there and see it from the inside.
I had a road king for 8 years. To me, a short ride is a tank of gas. Less than 100 miles is an errand. I've rode all over the U.S. and i love it. I chose to consider a larger ultra limited. I went with the Indian Roadmaster because of the price. The first thing I noticed was the much smoother ride. I'll see in 8 years what's better
I traded in my Road Kind that I had for 10 years, original owner. I bought a 2023 Challenger Dark Horse and after only 500 miles I can say I would never go back to HD. Like you said, smooth. I'm headed off on a 2500 mile ride tomorrow to really break it in.
Unless things drastically change what you are likely going to find out in 8yrs is you will likely not only lose the money you saved, but more when you trade it in or if it gets damaged or totaled. I learned this with Yamaha and Indian hasn’t proved to hold there value better than Yamaha even.. This matters in the long run or if bike gets damaged because holding value directly effects insurance. I learned this the hard way..
Harley Sporster 48, Deluxe, and Heritage 114, here. However, when it came time for a bagger, I opted for a new 2020 Indian Chieftain Dark Horse. Now, I’m thinking about adding a Challenger.
I've owned and own Harleys and Indians and have had great experiences with both dealerships sales and service. I prefer Harley's softails over Indian's and Indian's baggers over Harley's. Thats just me. Keep putting out great content bro!
Ride what you like, I always look at other bike brands, I own a O3 UltraClassic Gun metal pearl but I made it to fit my personality! I was born in 59 so I wanted it to look like a 59 Caddy! I have no problem with what anyone rides! I have pissed of a lot of bikers by saying a REAL biker does not give a $#!+ what anyone else rides as long as you don"t start downing their bike! That will make them mad! Run what you brung Brother!
Facts bro. I ride a 2020 challenger and added the full dress, lowers and touring pack. I originally looked at Harley but all of the dealerships around me were arrogant and rude and acted like I was in the wrong place. So I walked out and went to Indian Milwaukee and bought my bike because their customer service was waaaaaay better.
I bought my 21 challenger DH from them! Agreed they were great people and it was nice to talk about riding outside of the fact they were selling a bike to me.
Any photos of this? I have a ‘22 Challenger Elite and put the trunk on it. Absolutely love it. Looking at new things to add and wanted to see your baby.
One thing you touched on that I can say with absolute certainty, I will NEVER step foot in my town's harley dealership again. I have had nothing but absolutely horrible experiences with them and that alone might be the factor that pushes me over to Indian for my next bike. And since no company will ever be loyal to me, I have no loyalty to any company beyond what they provide me for what I pay.
@@Beef5 While I can't speak to many since I've only visited the one we used to have here and the one we have here now, but so far I can say that 100% of them that I have been to have been horrible. Which also means there is a very small chance of me giving any other dealerships a chance.
@Robert Gamble the Ride Now dealership is terrible as well. I just tried to buy a Honda cbr600rr that msrp at $12,099. They tried selling it to me for $18,999 with 20% interest. After I laughed directly into their face they came back with an offer of $5k down and financing $15k at 20% interest. Its going to take a desperate moron to walk through those doors for them to ever sell a bike.
Last time I went to dealer for parts I walked around 15 minutes and no one spoke to me when I was walking out a salesman asked if I want to test ride a new Harley, I said why? I bought one here before and can't get help at parts counter? I will it an Indian next time but not from Ride Now either?
@@Beef5 I can't say that I've ever heard of Ride Now, but thanks for the forewarning. I haven't been in our current Indian dealership, but my next bike will likely be a challenger or something from a private sale. HD will never directly profit a single penny from me.
I traded my 2017 Indian Chief Darkhorse in for a 2020 Indian Challenger August 2020. I have not looked back. Love my Challenger. Two of my friends who were Harley or die guys now also own Indian Challengers.
The reason I own a couple of Victorys is my experience with HD, I think they are so accustomed to people coming in that will spend endless money but MUST own a Harley and nothing but a Harley, has led them to take their customers for granted. When there were issues with my bike they were bordering on rude and dismissive. I'm sure at the corporate level they get the changing demographics and competition, but I don't think it has really soaked in to the guys in the dealerships, they can either adjust the way they do things or continue to shrink.
I have always been of the mindset that everyone ride what you like. I also feel that any pair of 2 wheels is better than a cage most of the time. My first bike was a 2010 Honda Sabre 1300. The look and ride was at a great price point for me. I got it in 2012 brand new, after sitting on the dealership floor for 2 years. 10 years, 53,000 ish miles and many many test rides of Indian and HD later, I grabbed a 22 Pursuit DH premium. Over my test rides and trying to ride comparable bikes of each company, I just love the look and feel of the Indian much more than HD. My closest dealership is 100 miles away, but It is worth it to me, as the closest HD dealership is just over 60 miles away. One issue I have had with Indian is a major flaw with the clear coat being very soft, and scratching easily. Other than that my experience so far has been pretty good. I also ride with a guy who is now on his 2nd Indian after having 2 HD and loving them.
Spot on man and the competition forced Harley to up its game. Love them both, owned them both, but after trading my CVO Ultra in for a Chieftain back in 2013, haven’t looked back. Lack of dealer network scared me back then, but learned I never need the dealer for much other than routine maintenance. Bike is still rock solid after nearly 10 years and now added a 21 Challenger to the stable. Damn is that a fun bike to ride.
I thought my 2020 Roadglide Limited was going to be my forever bike…. But I test rode an Indian Challenger and subsequently bought a Pursuit Darkhorse after finding out about the electronic suspension and other amenities. Love both brands, but the Pursuit is definitely a better bagger (at least out of the box.). Also, although there are a lot of HD dealers in Southern Cal where I live, I also live within 35, 42 and 61 miles of the local Indian dealers (go figure, my home dealer is Indian Motorcycle of San Diego). Great content man, keep it going!
Couldn't agree more. I've had the Indian Pursuit Dark Horse since November. I've put over 5k kilomètres on it already. She's a beauty and a beast. My Harley owner friends tell me they're jealous and wonder why Harley doesn't make a bike like the Pursuit. I tell them, don't worry, competition is a good thing and Harley will at some point. Just like they're trying to do with the Sportster S to compete with the Indian FTR. (there's no competition, though. FTR crushes Harley in this segment.)
I ride an Indian because I liked the cruiser/bagger looks and Harley didn't offer anything that really spoke out to me. The Scout and Springfield Dark Horse had been my dream bikes since they debuted. When I finally got my license I purchased a Scout Bobber for my first bike. Absolutely brilliant bike, just didn't suit my riding style. By then I had enough experience to be comfortable to step up to a Springfield Dark Horse and I haven't looked back. And much like you my Indian dealer has been awesome. Very accommodating and friendly staff. My local Harley dealers not so much.
Exactly! Indian Dealer n Palm Bay Florida is great! Visited Harley Dealer in Merritt Island, sales employee didn’t even speak to m girl looking to buy, only the guys. ? BIG loss for their sales commission. BIG!! FYI, Girls ride too! Ps and Not saying all HD dealers or salespeople, it was just one at Harley n Merrit Island. She went to Indian n Palm Bay, bought a great bike. Have both, compared, Indian is much better ride especially long distance. Be safe All no matter what motorcycle ride!
I bought my 1st new motorcycle in 1981 - a 1981 Yamaha SX650 Special - 2-year note, that I thought paying off in 1 year would boost my credit score (I was paid every 2 weeks, so in my mind it made sense). After I was free and clear, I wanted to see what the "buzz" about Harley was - I was VERY rudely treated at the dealership, and vowed I would NEVER buy a Harley (or would discourage ANY of my off-spring from doing so). Harley made their grave - I'm now on a $32,000 Indian Roadmaster that is the FINEST bike I've EVER thrown a leg over. My brother and several of my friends own Harleys - when we go out on rides, I want to be in the back (they're NOT going to lose me) and when I see them getting "bounced" off their saddles, I don't even feel it on my bike.
Aftermarket for Harley had to be bigger, they didn’t do it right the first time! Harley charges an arm and a leg for options that come factory on Indians
I bought a 2021 Honda monkey to learn the basics than a year later after looking at different bikes I kept going back to the Indian scout. I got a 2023 Indian scout rogue and I couldn't be happier with it. Everytime I get off my bike I look back and say damn that's my bike! It handles like a dream and has more than enough power that I can't get bored of.
Rode Harleys all my life and love them ,on that note I purchased a 2019 chieftain dark horse because I liked the Fox rear shock much better for comfort for long hauls for the wife. I also use the auto locking saddle bags and auto up and down wind shield often and really enjoy them over Harley also the drive modes are cool too.
I was drawn to your comment about the Indian suspension. I have a 2020 Chieftan Classic. After 2000 km aI upgraded the forks with Traxion cartridges. I felt the stock front suspension was dangerous on wet rough surfaces as it would almost bounce at times and the front would wash out a few inches before regaining traction. It now handles like a huge sport bike. I absolutely fell in love with the styling. I also had met a Harley mechanic who bought an Indian bagger and he said it was all around a better quality machine. His analogy was the difference between a Ducati and a Japanese bike. I’ve added the top box with armrests for my sweetie and she loves it. I will keep the Chieftan till I die.
I've had the Indian Pursuit Dark Horse since November. I've put over 5k kilomètres on it already. She's a beauty and a beast. My Harley owner friends tell me they're jealous and wonder why Harley doesn't make a bike like the Pursuit. I tell them, don't worry, competition is a good thing and Harley will at some point. Just like they're trying to do with the Sportster S to compete with the Indian FTR. (there's no competition, though. FTR crushes Harley in this segment.) Also, while I'm from New York, I now live in the south of Portugal where I ride all year long. Our local Indian dealer is amazing. I've bought a Scout and my current Pursuit from them. The 2023 FTR Carbon will soon be in my garage as well. While Harley owners here are definitely into their brand, they're not as locked in as they are in the States. They admire Indian and the products they make. They're jealous over the Pursuit and the FTR. But we all get along just fine.
Love both brands and have owned both and currently have my third Indian a 22 Pursuit. Love it! And you are correct in the value get way more for your buck. With that said the bike is also far superior stock and you don’t have to spend 5-8 grand to make the power and handling that the iNdian does. I think they are beautiful looking as well.
In June of 2020 I bought a brand new Indian Dark horse Challenger from Mission City Dealership in Boerne TX have put over 40k miles to date. I have taken my bike as far north to PA and toured all around TX hill county. I must say that this bike has exceeded all my expectations and some. I now have my eyes on the Persuit Elite. I am extremely pleased with the overall riding comfort, the performance and handling of the Indian. The ft pounds of torque and horsepower are impressive.
I really don’t know what difference that makes…that was in the ‘50s. I’m not making a purchasing decision today on something that happened 70 years ago.
@@markkiger927 Noting the difference between the oldest American motorcycle brand, Indian, vs the oldest continuously opperating motorcycle brand, Harley Davidson.
Indian today isn't 8ndian from back then, dont be fooled by the name, Polaris bought Indian years ago and started to remake it them but it is not the same company at all nor the same product, more even a nod to that product
Whichever you prefer, Indian's revival has surely been forcing HD to up its game. I still think HD is missing a few options in their lineup whose absence just doesn't make sense for as long as they've been in the game. (The Bronx or FTR type equivalent) As far as the culture, I'm sure that's very regional, here in Utah biker groups are generally very diverse & pretty much everybody waves. My advice will always remain: get what you like, you're the one riding it. The rest will sort itself out.
Yep I got my Indian Cheiftain last year at bike week in Daytona barley saw any Indians last year I was really surprised on how many Indians their were this past month at bike week was good to see love my Indian it’s not perfect but every bike has flaws
I signed legal paperwork in 2011 saying that I would not say anything discouraging against HD following a legal battle over a denied warranty claim. With that said I have a 2011 Victory with 166K and a 2019 Chieftain Limited with 37K. Both flawless.
Didn't have a nearby Indian dealer, had similar experiences regarding Harley dealers. Having ridden mostly a 79' KZ1000 ST the past 17 years, I found a new 21' Vulcan 1700 Vaquero for about 2/3rds the price of either bike while checking out a new dealership in the area. Also get discounts on anything I buy there. I live in NH where you can really only ride 2/3-3/34 of the year. Just couldn't justify spending that much personally, only paid about $18k for the Vaquero.
I went from a road king to a chief vintage and Haven’t looked back. Great job summarizing both brands! I really don’t think you can go wrong with either
I owned a Road King. I was looking for a new bike. My local HD was horrible. Ton of people working every time I went in the store, never had anyone offer to help. Tried to get service on my Road King and they said it was to old. Tried to buy tires whey want $200 more and wet 6 plus weeks out. Local Indian dealer is great, but ended up buying a BMW R18B because of price. Got it fully loaded with all options for $16.3k after all rebates and discounts. Live the bike, never would of looked at if not treated so poorly at HD. I will probably never buy another HD, but will consider Indian in the future.
In my experience, although Harley has the biggest community, it's also got the most toxic community...hands down. The impression I always get is "you're welcome to hang with the group if you don't own a Harley....but you'd better know your place and worship at the alter when told to".
Some people are just aholes and you probably don't want to hang out with them if there wasn't a motorcycle.... it's more fun with a group of 3 who like to ride more then hang out BSing
I like Indian's train style fairing and the valenced front fender much better than the newer ones. I'm glad they still have it on the Roadmaster, and the Springfield.
Indian dealership: more like a car dealership not ment for hanging out and chatting with like minded people. Harley dealer: and experience and a hangout and chatting with like minded people.
Both are great made in the USA bikes. As for myself (been riding since 1981) I haven't been able to talk myself into buying a Harley due to cost, maintenance schedule and last but not least I just don't like my handlebars shaking so badly that I can't see the mirrors at red lights. I ride an Indian Super Cheif Limited with stage 2 performance upgrade. The 116 ci thunder stroke engine is ultra reliable and has tons of torque. With my stage 2 kit, in sport mode it's no joke, it moves.
@@darrinclem2502 That's true, I've ridden a few HDs over the last 40 years, mainly friend's bikes that we've traded for a few miles just to see how other bikes ride. I always wanted back on my Yamaha and Kawasaki cruiser within 10 minutes. HD has top of the line materials, but otherwise they're way overpriced. Ride safe and enjoy the ride.
I have owned a Victory XC for about 6yrs. Even though I’m still bitter about Polaris canning Victory, I’d still probably have a Challenger of some sort over an HD. The value is hard to beat and frankly a lot of HD’s just look so similar to me. I’m sure it’s different if you’re into them. But when there’s a row 50 HD’s, it’s hard to stand out.
I’m lucky to live within an hour and a half of both an Indian dealer and a Harley dealer with great customer service. Appleton Harley in Clarksville TN and Music City Indian in Nashville. I did my MSF course at the Harley dealership, but bought my Indian Chief Dark Horse at Music City Indian. I just love the looks and the rarity of the Indians, man. And personal opinion, I think the newer Indian engines are better built. The 116 Thunderstroke in the small Chief frame is insane! I have nothing against Harley, I may buy one someday, but for now Indian is designing better looking bikes in my opinion.
Whoa pretty gnarly to be watching a video and randomly hear a shoutout to my channel. Appreciate it man. Also, I MIGHT be watching your opinions as I weigh out potentially looking for a new bike.
I cringe when people use "dealer network" as a knock against other brands. Funny way of saying that your bike breaks down alot, you can't wrench on your own bike, or you just bought a Harley to feel special eating free donuts at the dealer on Saturdays. Its herd mentality at its purest form Meanwhile people that own Indians, Triumphs, Aprilias, Ducatis, Moto Guzzis and Royal Enfeilds (very few dealers all around) get by just fine without $100 t-shirts and some fluffed up "heritage" story. We want to ride our machines, not be just another member of some cult. I think Harleys themselves are fantastic machines, but the majority of the HD crowd is toxic af
Why I got rid of my 17 Road Glide and switched to BMW K1600B water cooled. I don't sweat to death and my bike will smoke any HD out there. Especially if HD is stock. HD 102 HP - BMW 160HP. Got sick and tired of cleaning chrome. BMW takes me 45 minutes to clean. I ride my bike a lot. HD sat in the garage for 4 years. I put 4500 miles on the POS. Then when HD came out with the WHIM that only worked with wireless sena headsets which sound like crap. That was it. FInished with HD. You are just buying a name. People buy HD and first thing they want to do is dump a bunch of money in the bike to make theirs look different. They all look the same.
Started video, and paused to comment before I watched. Here's my background. I'm from the MKE area. My family is from MKE. I'm a patriotic American. I remember when American made objectively, meant better.. I was a sk8er, a BMXer. I listened to punk rock. I loved counter culture, even if it meant getting my as ass kicked. I built American hotrods, I loved speed, I raced motorcycles.. I loved performance.. but when it came to motor cycles, I never rode HDs. they and their fans were the status quo.. they haven't listened to the counter culture since the 70s. When they failed at technical progress hd blames their customers and They became the status quo.. they made fun of the counter culture they used to be while we the counter culture rode brands that handed them their asses in regards to objectively better performing.. Indian saw this.. Indian filled that starving Market of counter culture that still demands performance. Indian gave these people and my self a reason to buy an American motorcycle for the first time....I'm from MKE, I still say F you and now own 3 indians... because Indian actually listens to its customers and improves, while HD blames it's customers for it's failures.. Aftermarket is less of a worry for Indian, Because it's great from the jump. HD the after market is more important, because we'll, they need it, and still falls short.. That's not to say HD aren't reliable, but much like Glock, they rely on the after market to keep up with the company's that actually listened to it's customer's.....
I currently own a flhxs 2015 I bought new. Love the bike. Last summer I rented a roadmaster for a 5 day ride through Wisconsin. Within 5 minutes I rode over my first set railroad tracks. I waited for the thump. There was none. The ride is so incredibly smooth. Another thing was the navigation system. More user friendly and I loved the “center of town” feature. The flhxs needs an address. And the adjustable windscreen good grief I used that all the time,up when at highway speeds and lowered when going slower. Loved it. The locking bags and trunk with the key fob is a nice touch more for convenience. Longer floorboards was nice as well. Sure you definitely feel the engine heat when idling but overall I loved it. This summer we are doing a 3 dayer through the ozarks and will be renting a road glide limited. After that ride I will make up my mind which way to go, Indian or Harley.
i’ve been around a long time, I remember the 1984 tariff that Harley Davidson, CEO Vaughn Bealls convinced then President Ronald Reagan to put a tariff on Japanese motorcycles of 45%. A typical 750 cc Japanese motorcycle price went from 2999, to $4750 in an instant. It saved the 600 jobs at the Harley factory. But over the next two years, more than 1100 United States-based non-Harley dealerships went out of business permanently. I worked for three shops that went under because of that tariff selling motorcycles part time for 17 years. One of the owners that lost his shop, he literally lost everything, including his home because of the tariff. More than 7000 United States, citizens lost their jobs working in those motorcycle dealerships that went under. The industry has never recovered from the tariff and it actually went full circle and bit Harley Davidson in the ass to and they are paying the price right now… how? back when motorcycles were good and cheap, a lot of young guys, and girls started out riding motorcycles, and when they got older and had families, they would buy their kids, mini bikes and small motorcycles, so they would all go riding on the weekends. That tariff made motorcycles too expensive so all those dads that never got started and then later got their kids into riding little bikes, that would eventually end up, riding big bikes someday, those generations of kids that never got started, a big percentage of them would have switched over to Harleys when they got older. Now, they didn’t grow up as motorcyclists. I realize not all of them would have bought Harleys, maybe only a few hundred thousand of them would’ve ended up on Harleys today. right now, here in 2024, in my garage, or my 106th, 107th, 108th motorcycles that I have owned over the decades. Because of that terrible loan, I would never even consider buying a Harley… I have nothing against the Harley crowd, it’s the company I have hard feelings about because I was there when that tariff was imposed on me. I was working part time as a mechanic, and later as a salesman. I was making more money selling motorcycles and I was at my real job. In 1979, I was averaging about $600 a week selling motorcycles only working 15 hours a week. I got 3.5% of the taxable amount the bike sold for. The shops I worked, for, slowly went out of business, because people stopped buying. I went to three different dealerships, and they went out of business. It was not worth going into work. The show rooms were deserted… before the tariff, I had 22 nineHarley dealerships within an hour of my home. Today the tariff is still having an effect because there are only three dealerships left within an hour of my home. . that Harley imposed tariffs was devastating to motorcycling in the United States. And I ain’t forgetting that. I have never had a Harley and I never will .. in fact, I only know of three riders that I have known over the decades that have switched from Japanese motorcycles to Harleys since the tariff. 95% of the riders I have known would never buy a Harley. They are two different categories of motorcyclists. There are Harley riders, and then there are the rest. Harley Davidson has caused that split that still exist today. You could go into any Harley shop back in the 70s and 80s in my stickers that said, “friends don’t let friends ride rice burners “or, “two atomic bombs were not enough. “.. harley’s PR department made it as though you were un-American if you didn’t buy a Harley. Look at Harley today, they’re made in Brazil, India, they’re proposing to build a factory in Germany, and there’s one other country that they are building Harleys in. I thought they were going to be American through and through.. anyone that wasn’t there back in the late 70s and early 80s, can’t know what it was like. The Japanese were creating motorcycles with tubeless tires, electronic, ignition, water, cooling, triple disc bricks, two cylinders, V-twin, in-line fours, V fours, six cylinders., turbo, charging, full fairings, and color, matched bags, one key operated all the locks, they didn’t leak oil, they were utterly reliable, and they were very very inexpensive. That’s when I wanted to introduced the Goldwing interstate, the CBX six-cylinder .. The CX 500 turbo, suzuki, Yamaha, and Kawasaki also had big touring bikes, and turbocharged bikes. It seem like the advances in brakes, engine power, three and four valves per cylinder, it seemed like the technology was picking up speed right when the tariff put a stick in the spokes and stomped everything… The market actually never recovered from that tariff to this day here in 2024. It is still crippled and it’s affecting Harley. Because all those guys would’ve started at young on small dirt bikes and gradually street bikes from Japan, would have someday switched to Harley when they became adults. They didn’t grow up as motorcyclists from a young age. That’s why there are so few millennials and generation X or whatever they’re called riding motorcycles these days, they didn’t take after their dad’s riding motorcycles from a young age. And passing it on to their kids, and passing it on to their kids, kids. We are three generations away from the tariff of the 80s, the price of motorcycles after the tariff expired four years later, never came back down. They did not lower the price of motorcycles by 45%. Harley did that. And today, all is not forgotten or forgiven. I realize that if there was never a tariff, that all those generations of kids that would have grown up to riding bigger and bigger, Japanese motorcycles, and then eventually passing that on to their small kids, riding, mini bikes and dirt bikes, and they would start riding street bikes, and then bigger street bikes. I realize that they would not have switched to Harleys, not all of them. Maybe just a few hundred thousand of them would have switched to Harleys by this time. So the tariff actually went full circle and is biting a Harley in the ass right now. when Harley got President Reagan to impose that 45% increase in price tariff on Japanese imported motorcycles, they eliminated generations of their own future customers that never grew up around motorcycles, because the tariff just made them too expensive.. I hope Harley Davidson survives the downward trend and motorcycle buying.. because if there was not a Harley Davidson, making motorcycles in the United States, there would possibly be more anti-motorcycle legislation and restriction in this country.. I hope they survive
Great video, dude, and timely too because I wanna share with you an American Biker experience from last weekend. You and I both live in CHS and ride H-D. Last weekend I went to AB because of the video you'd made on the '23 Challenger Elite. That was a killer video, the bike was stunning, and I wanted to see if they still had it. Plus, it was a promotional weekend for Indian at the dealership. So, I rode my new '23 Road King Special to AB, parked in front (the only H-D in the lot), and went in. The ladies at the front counter were super welcoming, and they always have been. Props to AB for that. The sales floor had quite a few customers, none of them looking at bikes; instead, literally ALL of them Slingshots. There were salespeople there, all of whom saw me looking at a particular Chieftain (love that bike). They also had the Challenger Elite you featured, yet it had been sold (equally as stunning in person, btw). Here's the thing: not a SINGLE sales rep approached me, and I found that extremely off-putting. I'm obviously a biker (had my helmet in hand and all my gear), and who's to say I hadn't ridden there on an Indian I already own? The sales reps couldn't have seen my RKS in the lot because this was over by the clothing section near the back and none of them saw me come in. At any rate, I've loved the Springfield Dark Horse for the last couple of years and now the Chieftain has also caught my eye. In addition to my '23 RKS I also own a '21 Street Bob, but BASED ON YOUR VIDEOS, I've warmed to the idea of adding an Indian to the collection. But if nobody approaches me, especially when they see me seriously ogling one of their models (the Chieftain in this case), it turns me off. I love the guys at LCHD and have a great relationship with them, from Sales to Parts to [especially] Service. I have all my work done there and trust them. But if I'm going to throw down for another bike that, honestly, I don't need and simply want to feed my addiction, based on the lack of interaction, I left there feeling like, "well, I could just buy a second RKS and I know what I'm getting." You make great points, and I love and respect your objectivity, so thank you for creating such outstanding content. It's invaluable because it enables your viewers to make fully-informed decisions. Just wanted to relay my experience, man. Safe riding and keep up the great work! ✌🤘
Just bought a 2023 Challenger and loving it so far. Its not better than anything, its just different. Thats what I tell my Harley buds. We all have different likes and dislikes, if everyone is accepting of others, it should not be a problem. Both are American and great machines. Great videos with good advice
You know I’m glad to finally hear from someone that isn’t just a brand simp. I’m an Indian fanboy myself but ultimately I’m someone that understands theres a good reason Harley is still around.
The Victory Cross Country I had was probably the most comfortable bike I owned. It had its quirks. I went back to Harley after Polaris shut down Victory. That left some negative feelings towards Polaris. My resale value took a big hit and I was basically riding a depreciating asset that was depreciating like the speed of sound. Used Harleys go for 2-3x what same year used Victorys go for. Indians are about comparable to the Harleys. I’ve looked at Indian and they do have some nice features for the price. For now I’m staying on my Harley, even if I have to manually lock my bags. Polaris fooled me once.
I feel like Polaris should have kept victory as the performance brand and Indian is a heritage and just sold them in one dealership. They could have just continued to sell victories at Indian dealerships without even branding the dealership victory.
I agree with the Harley vs Indian dealerships. The sales department at my nearby Harley dealer is so accommodating, but once they hand you over to the finance department YUCK!
Anyone who's feewings are hurt and offended by the big bad Hawey-Davidson motorcycle company boss shouldn't be widing on two wheels... He will soon be history while the bikes will outlive every one of us Just forget the stupid woke bullshit and ride your bike
I have owned 5 Harley's, 1 sporty, a FXRS, FXRL, and 2 FLHT's, 97/99. The last one for 14 years. Took a year off, had a Triumph for a commuter bike, and for the past 7 years an Indian Springfield. After changing the handlebars, adding Love Jugs and a stage 1 kit, I find my Indian to be as reliable, and more comfortable, than my Harleys were. I would still own a Harley, but am happy with my current bike.
I test drove an Indian Roadmaster just prior to the Polaris buyout. I had been riding HD Wide Glide, Road Kings, Street Glides and Road Glides and the Indian Roadmaster was the most comfortable bike I've ever rode. Unlike HD, the Indian had all the right accessories right from the factory. I've typically spent +- $10k on every HD I've had to "upgrade" it to what Indian considers standard equipment. I ended up going back to HD just because I was afraid of the dealer network and also the future of the brand after Polaris. Now bikeless again I am strongly considering the Roadmaster again.
Makes no sense at all. Roadmaster came out in 2015. Polaris bought Indian in 2011. You know, it's quite easy to find basic information using internet search engines.
Actually, you didn't test drive a Roadmaster before Polaris bought Indian. Polaris bought Indian in 2011 and the Roadmaster came out in 2015. That said, it is often the case that Indian motorcycles come equipped with things that must be added to an H-D, such as LEDs, good suspension, comfortable seats, etc.
Harley has perfected the art of merchandising. They absolutely dominate when it comes to that. So many people own at least a t-shirt, hat, or sticker and don't even own the bike! For me, I went from a metric cruiser to a Harley Ultra Classic to an Ultra Limited. It all came down to looks. I think Indian clearly has the technology, but Harley has the better looking bikes, in my opinion. At the end of the day, ride what speaks to you and moves your soul.
I ride a Harley now and have had mostly Harleys in the past. I had a Gilroy CMC Indian 2002 Scout. That was a beast! I would love to try a new Polaris Indian but the dealerships are too far away.
I've owned 3 Harleys and loved them all. However on my last purchase after test riding a cheiftain darkhorse in daytona I came home a matte black 2023 model. The features and how good it rides/handles sold me instantly. I'll always love harley no doubt but I just felt the most comfortable I've ever felt on the cheiftain darkhorse I test rode.
I ride a different brand now but that will change in the near future. I've been torn on which way to go re Harley or Indian. I guess I should say Road Glide or Pursuit. I agree 100% with your analysis. Great video.
My biggest concern with Indian is, I had a Victory for years. Which was the original Polaris motorcycle. They were awesome bikes!!! Totally stock it would keep up with or out run most Harley’s even with screaming eagle package. I lost all trust in Polaris motorcycles after that. They dropped Victory and all the support of the ones on the road. Made me nervous to go on any long rides without any dealer support.
I understand what your saying. However I see the Victory line influence in many Indian bikes. I have a 14 Vision. I would love to have a Roadmaster or Pursuit. I think Polaris would have to go out of business to stop supporting these bikes they've created.
@Peter Angleslol hu, I wonder why I'm replacing the engine in a 07 1600 Vulcan classic with 40k on it. I grew up in a shop I understand maintenance. I changed the oil and preformed other required services religiously.
Indian pulls in riders from all models… not just “fan boys” … Tons of metric riders inc gold wing owners stepping up to the Indian … I myself traded a Kawasaki Vulcan voyager for the Indian pursuit… liquid cooled vtwin was a mandate ..
Yep, the majority of HD fanatics just wanted to sit at the cool kids table and be a part of a cult. Majority of people that ride Metrics and Indians do it because they like the machine itself and could care less about what everyone else rides
My statement had nothing to do with sales numbers … just who the typical buyer is … but since you brought it up… Harley lost 15% market share 20-21… Indian gained 7% … still far behind Harley… but like the title says … the truth hurts
great review, you nailed it, long time Harley owner/ rider, i have had them darn near all, from naked road kings, ultras, RG special street glides etc… and recently switched to an indian pursuit limited w/premium package, yes its not the cool HD that everyone wants or loves, but the ride, suspension,power handling, no buffeting w/adjustable windscreen, i too was the indian doubter one 15 min demo ride and yes, its a game changer
Another benefit to the Harleys are all of the extra gaskets and O-Rings it has over the Indian to leak from. 😁 I know. I own a Harley that I did not get to ride much in 2022 because I was chasing an oil leak.
@@larry648 It was an oil pan gasket. Bike is a 2005 FLHRCI. I used the manual's torque specs. About the 5th gasketI finally found out that the newer Twin Cams were using a higher torque spec so I torqued the last one to the newer specs. Leaks stop at about the end of the riding season.
My neighbor bought a new 2022 Street Glide last year. The engine had oiling issues and cooked the motor with only 800 miles. The dealer wanted to just rebuild it. I worked at a dealership for 12yrs. I told him to say he wanted a new engine or a new bike, because a new bike with a rebuilt engine is a lemon in my book. I have rode Harley since high school in the 80’s. Worked at a dealership and owned over 50 bikes to date. I owned 3 Twin cams and can say the last great Harley engine was the EVO from 1983-1998. My last Harley is a 1997 Electra Glide. My next bike will be a Indian. I remember working at the dealership when Polaris came out with the Victory. We got a few on trade and couldn’t give them away, sent them all to Auction. But that was over 25yrs ago. I worked at the dealership when Indian built bikes in like 99-01 with the S&S motors and built in Las Vegas I believe. We took them on. They was big heavy Pigs and only lasted a few years, we couldn’t give them away. But when Polaris bought the Indian Name a few years ago I knew they had the money, design and technology to build a great bike. I seen how far they came with their 4 wheeler and SxS line. My next new bike will be a Indian. I believe this man just gave the most honest review I seen about the two companies. I refuse to walk in the door of a HD dealership. I went to 3 different shops to buy a new Road Glide a couple years ago, I was a cash customer. All 3 treated me like crap, the salesman wouldn’t get out of their seats to show me the bikes. To be honest I knew more about the bike than they did with just a few questions. H-D will have its loyal customers for a few more years, but as Gen X (me) ages and stops riding they are in trouble. Because the next generation grew up with Polaris 4 wheelers and SxS’s with great customer service. They don’t remember the sad Victory days. They don’t know the Real Indian Motorcycle company went out of business in 1953. They are into technology and this New Indian Motorcycle has Harley beat.
I'm a fan of Indian, decided to go with an iron 883 for my first bike though. I think I'll ride it for a couple of seasons then upgrade to something else, probably an Indian of some kind.
Well I was always and still love Metric motorcycles, I grew up riding sport bikes. Now that I am older my first bike was a Honda Shadow, but then wanted a bagger so I bought a Kawasaki Vaquero which was a great bike. Having bad knees I traded it in on a Can Am spyder but it didn't ride like a motorcycle so I had to buy a motorcycle with 2 wheels. I bought am Honda St1300 and love it. I ride with a bunch of Harley riders who doesn't care what bike I ride and I rode several of those. So I decided I needed a bagger but didn't want a Me 2 bike ( I have a black Harley, Me 2) lol. I found a Indian Chieftain Elite (2018) with the special paint job. Now when we all stop and there is mainly black Harley's alot of people gather around the Indian. Long way around it I preferred the Indian Elite. I just Love riding and do not care what people around me ride as long as it's on 2 or 3 wheels. Great vid
No Harley was owned by a bowling ball company, at one point. So Harley was not Harley, they were AMF Harley, just like Polaris Indian. And I am a fan of both, because I own both, and I own Victory and I have a Honda. LOL
@Greg Seegers so, a company thats been around forever still can't get it right? 🤣 if Harley made decent machines for the money, nobody would even have to use weak excuses like heritage, resale value and dealer network. Indian is Polaris, Harley used to sell snowmobiles.....who gives a shit about heritage?!
I had the challenger.. and have a 128 FLHTP with a ton of the money into it .. the challenger was a good bike.. but soft.. the tune was terrible.. I got a k1600b... I will be a bmw fanboy for a while now
I bought my Indian in 2018. I've been on poker runs with 265 bikes and I was the only Indian ! They get ALOT of attention ! I do agree with 90% of what you said ! Indian does need to step up their game in a major areas ! 1st is finish ! HD bikes are beautiful and the paint choices are amazing ! 2nd is apparel ! Polaris has enough money to do better for the Indian community !
I've been riding many years and have owned 3 Harleys. A Sportster, a Dyna and a Road Glide Special. I now own a Indian Pursuit Darkhorse Elite. This Indian is by far, hands down the best bike I've ever ridden. The main reason I checked the Indian out was the suspension. When I tell you that it blew my mind, it an understatement. Then everything else just fell in line with what I wanted. And the icing on the cake was the price. Way more bang for the buck. What I got would have cost me $50k at Harley (got a buddy that works there and he tried) for almost $9k less. I've been riding it now for about 4 months and I try to find something I don't like. I've only found 2. The heat that hits my legs is hotter. but it is off set a little by the vents. Lack of AM part availability is another but nothing that one can't figure out.
I am not sure about the dealer network being ok with Indian... 2 Harley dealers within 15 miles of me... nearest Indian Dealer is in another state at 160 miles, and next nearest is same state at around 180 miles. I'd love an Indian, but I'd really want a dealer close by.
This. There are 675 HD dealers across the US vs 197 Indian dealers. How he can call that a wash is beyond me… and worse yet, all or nearly all of the HD dealers are gonna be exclusively HD. Most of the Indian dealers are gonna sell multiple bike brands. So the gap in support is actually wider than the 675 vs 197
I had a horrible buying experience when I purchased my Indian but I absolutely love my bike. No one at my local Harley dealer would even talk about their bikes with me. My Indian dealer 2 miles from my house was very untransparent with their pricing. I struggled to get an put the door price until I said I got a written quote from another Indian dealer. The local dealer came up with $1,250 in hidden fees. To sum it up the dealer is trash but I love my bike
Why does there need to be the best. I’ve owned 2 Indian’s and about 7 Harley’s. I like both but I have to say Harley has the nod for dealer network and history of Harley.
Both are great brands and are doing great things. Indian is ahead right now in modern features, power and value but that will most likely change. The biggest question to ask yourself when buying these bikes is, can you let go of the Harley brand name? Is the name important to you?
I enjoy Motorcycling. I like that we have choices & options when it comes to motorcycles. I've been blessed since riding motorcycles since 82' I've had the chance to own, ride, wrench on many different manufacturers. I've owned something from most major brands (exception BMW & Yamaha). You work for your money, you vote with your dollars, you purchase what motorcycle you want.
50 years riding and owning many different bikes in that time. Purchased a Triumph Bonneville couple years ago. Fantastic reliable machine that'll see me out.
I traded my 09 Kawasaki voyager with low miles for a brand new 22 Indian Roadmaster best decision I ever made and even my Harley buddies were impressed but either or is all good. We just love to go
![[モトブログ]ボンネビルが欲しかったのに気がついたらZ900RSカフェを買っていた件、、、[z900rscafe]#z900rs #メテオ350](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/05kR_1eTstc/mqdefault.jpg)
I think the biggest difference is the community. Other than myself I don't know anyone that owns an Indian. Most of my buddies ride Harleys. I hope sometime in the future that will change. Me personally, I don't care what your ride. As long as you're on two wheels.
Me sliding down on my Razer Scooter 🛴
Ride a Yamaha Bolt...
Part of the appeal for me is that they are rarer. If all my friends rode Indians I'd probably go get an HD. But I love being an Indian guy in a endless sea of HD bros.
Me riding my 5-55 mph ebike lol ✌️
That isnthe proper mindset of a motorcyclist- I think Hollywood screwed everyone up and made these clicks. I don't know hownit started or why it exists. I don't do track bikes because I am a loonatic sometimes and I know that. So, I have a Harley- why? Everyone had them so they must be good and it was impossible to find an Indian. First Indian infound a rider was in and it was beautiful. Never seen one since. Nonetheless bobers are around and they are sharp but still Harleys are everywhere.
I was asked by all my Harley friends "why Indian?" when I bought my first bike. I have no issue with Harley but I didn't see anything I liked at the Harley dealer and the Indian Scout Bobber was exactly what I wanted in a bike. Looks, price, size (first time bike owner), and I did 3 months research and couldn't find a bad review on it. I put 12k miles in 18 months. Upgraded to a Springfield DH and have 16k miles in 2 years. Waiting for my Challenger Icon to come in right now. Most of my Harley friends are openly impressed with the fit, finish, and performance of my Indians. And they all hate that it's my bike that gets the compliments and looks from passer by'ers when we are all parked. And to the hard core Harley guys that say "it's a Polaris", I don't care. I would ride it if it said POLARIS on the tank. It's a great bike.
Nice man. The whole Polaris thing is funny too because they've been around since 1954 and are a strong American company as well.
💯
Ask those same people if they walk up to Lamborghinis and say "nice Volkswagen," or Ferraris and say "nice Fiat?" Yeah, pretty dumb 😆
@@GingersKing that’s perfect! Using it…
I remember when you cold say of a Harley "It's an AMF, you know, like the bowling ball!"
I’m an old guy, 76y/o, been riding since 1974. In 2014 I realized my riding days are numbered, and I’d never owned. H-D. I bought a used 2012 RGU, and loved it. In 2016, my 70th b’day, I bought a new 2016 RGU, also loved it. Been having some heart issues, and H-D, at 925 lbs was just too heavy for me to ride safely. Sold the Harley, still have 2 BMWs, so not ready to quit riding!
Great video - really like your style!
Try and old Victory or New Indian Aluminum alloy frame.
I started in 1970. Now I ride my son’s Superlight so as long as you’re happy riding below 60mph every day and just want super-comfort with lightness and economy I suggest you test drive one.
Props to you my friend. I wish you many more rides and wrench turning and I pray I not only make it to 76 but be able to ride at 76 as well. Be blessed sir.
You inspire me so much. I turn 62 next month and thought I was a tad old to be buying a new LowRider Sport next month for my birthday. The bike weighs a manageable 720 lbs with that very tasty 117 Cubic engine. . My last bike 15 years ago was a Street glide which was close to 850 lbs. But I was thinking I was a tad old to get back in the saddle until I read you are 76 and still riding. Stay safe my friend and safe travels!!
Never quit riding. 👍☺️🧙♂️
Truth is, Harley is a very as aesthetically pleasing bike, but the people are something else. You’re not wrong about the dealerships. I work there and see it from the inside.
I had a road king for 8 years. To me, a short ride is a tank of gas. Less than 100 miles is an errand. I've rode all over the U.S. and i love it. I chose to consider a larger ultra limited. I went with the Indian Roadmaster because of the price. The first thing I noticed was the much smoother ride. I'll see in 8 years what's better
I traded in my Road Kind that I had for 10 years, original owner. I bought a 2023 Challenger Dark Horse and after only 500 miles I can say I would never go back to HD. Like you said, smooth. I'm headed off on a 2500 mile ride tomorrow to really break it in.
Unless things drastically change what you are likely going to find out in 8yrs is you will likely not only lose the money you saved, but more when you trade it in or if it gets damaged or totaled. I learned this with Yamaha and Indian hasn’t proved to hold there value better than Yamaha even.. This matters in the long run or if bike gets damaged because holding value directly effects insurance. I learned this the hard way..
Ok we get it, you guys are millionaires haha
Harley davidson is a piece of crap
Harley Sporster 48, Deluxe, and Heritage 114, here. However, when it came time for a bagger, I opted for a new 2020 Indian Chieftain Dark Horse. Now, I’m thinking about adding a Challenger.
I've owned and own Harleys and Indians and have had great experiences with both dealerships sales and service. I prefer Harley's softails over Indian's and Indian's baggers over Harley's. Thats just me. Keep putting out great content bro!
Ride what you like, I always look at other bike brands, I own a O3 UltraClassic Gun metal pearl but I made it to fit my personality! I was born in 59 so I wanted it to look like a 59 Caddy! I have no problem with what anyone rides! I have pissed of a lot of bikers by saying a REAL biker does not give a $#!+ what anyone else rides as long as you don"t start downing their bike! That will make them mad! Run what you brung Brother!
Facts bro. I ride a 2020 challenger and added the full dress, lowers and touring pack. I originally looked at Harley but all of the dealerships around me were arrogant and rude and acted like I was in the wrong place. So I walked out and went to Indian Milwaukee and bought my bike because their customer service was waaaaaay better.
I bought my 21 challenger DH from them! Agreed they were great people and it was nice to talk about riding outside of the fact they were selling a bike to me.
@@brandonford3397 you're in the MKE area still?
Any photos of this? I have a ‘22 Challenger Elite and put the trunk on it. Absolutely love it. Looking at new things to add and wanted to see your baby.
@@Smokeykroegsĝ34434
You were in the wrong; dont take disrespect when ur spending ur damn money
Indian is doing well! Both Indian and Harley are Great for America! Enjoy the road!
This didn’t age well
😂@@swaggaming420
One thing you touched on that I can say with absolute certainty, I will NEVER step foot in my town's harley dealership again. I have had nothing but absolutely horrible experiences with them and that alone might be the factor that pushes me over to Indian for my next bike. And since no company will ever be loyal to me, I have no loyalty to any company beyond what they provide me for what I pay.
100g facts. Harley-Davidson dealerships are horrible.
@@Beef5 While I can't speak to many since I've only visited the one we used to have here and the one we have here now, but so far I can say that 100% of them that I have been to have been horrible. Which also means there is a very small chance of me giving any other dealerships a chance.
@Robert Gamble the Ride Now dealership is terrible as well. I just tried to buy a Honda cbr600rr that msrp at $12,099. They tried selling it to me for $18,999 with 20% interest. After I laughed directly into their face they came back with an offer of $5k down and financing $15k at 20% interest. Its going to take a desperate moron to walk through those doors for them to ever sell a bike.
Last time I went to dealer for parts I walked around 15 minutes and no one spoke to me when I was walking out a salesman asked if I want to test ride a new Harley, I said why? I bought one here before and can't get help at parts counter? I will it an Indian next time but not from Ride Now either?
@@Beef5 I can't say that I've ever heard of Ride Now, but thanks for the forewarning. I haven't been in our current Indian dealership, but my next bike will likely be a challenger or something from a private sale. HD will never directly profit a single penny from me.
I traded my 2017 Indian Chief Darkhorse in for a 2020 Indian Challenger August 2020. I have not looked back. Love my Challenger. Two of my friends who were Harley or die guys now also own Indian Challengers.
The reason I own a couple of Victorys is my experience with HD, I think they are so accustomed to people coming in that will spend endless money but MUST own a Harley and nothing but a Harley, has led them to take their customers for granted. When there were issues with my bike they were bordering on rude and dismissive. I'm sure at the corporate level they get the changing demographics and competition, but I don't think it has really soaked in to the guys in the dealerships, they can either adjust the way they do things or continue to shrink.
I have always been of the mindset that everyone ride what you like. I also feel that any pair of 2 wheels is better than a cage most of the time. My first bike was a 2010 Honda Sabre 1300. The look and ride was at a great price point for me. I got it in 2012 brand new, after sitting on the dealership floor for 2 years. 10 years, 53,000 ish miles and many many test rides of Indian and HD later, I grabbed a 22 Pursuit DH premium. Over my test rides and trying to ride comparable bikes of each company, I just love the look and feel of the Indian much more than HD. My closest dealership is 100 miles away, but It is worth it to me, as the closest HD dealership is just over 60 miles away. One issue I have had with Indian is a major flaw with the clear coat being very soft, and scratching easily. Other than that my experience so far has been pretty good. I also ride with a guy who is now on his 2nd Indian after having 2 HD and loving them.
Spot on man and the competition forced Harley to up its game. Love them both, owned them both, but after trading my CVO Ultra in for a Chieftain back in 2013, haven’t looked back. Lack of dealer network scared me back then, but learned I never need the dealer for much other than routine maintenance. Bike is still rock solid after nearly 10 years and now added a 21 Challenger to the stable. Damn is that a fun bike to ride.
Totally agree. Competition makes whatever product you like better.
I thought my 2020 Roadglide Limited was going to be my forever bike…. But I test rode an Indian Challenger and subsequently bought a Pursuit Darkhorse after finding out about the electronic suspension and other amenities. Love both brands, but the Pursuit is definitely a better bagger (at least out of the box.). Also, although there are a lot of HD dealers in Southern Cal where I live, I also live within 35, 42 and 61 miles of the local Indian dealers (go figure, my home dealer is Indian Motorcycle of San Diego). Great content man, keep it going!
Couldn't agree more. I've had the Indian Pursuit Dark Horse since November. I've put over 5k kilomètres on it already. She's a beauty and a beast. My Harley owner friends tell me they're jealous and wonder why Harley doesn't make a bike like the Pursuit. I tell them, don't worry, competition is a good thing and Harley will at some point. Just like they're trying to do with the Sportster S to compete with the Indian FTR. (there's no competition, though. FTR crushes Harley in this segment.)
I ride an Indian because I liked the cruiser/bagger looks and Harley didn't offer anything that really spoke out to me. The Scout and Springfield Dark Horse had been my dream bikes since they debuted. When I finally got my license I purchased a Scout Bobber for my first bike. Absolutely brilliant bike, just didn't suit my riding style. By then I had enough experience to be comfortable to step up to a Springfield Dark Horse and I haven't looked back. And much like you my Indian dealer has been awesome. Very accommodating and friendly staff. My local Harley dealers not so much.
Exactly! Indian Dealer n Palm Bay Florida is great! Visited Harley Dealer in Merritt Island, sales employee didn’t even speak to m girl looking to buy, only the guys. ?
BIG loss for their sales commission. BIG!! FYI, Girls ride too!
Ps and Not saying all HD dealers or salespeople, it was just one at Harley n Merrit Island. She went to Indian n Palm Bay, bought a great bike. Have both, compared, Indian is much better ride especially long distance.
Be safe All no matter what motorcycle ride!
I bought my 1st new motorcycle in 1981 - a 1981 Yamaha SX650 Special - 2-year note, that I thought paying off in 1 year would boost my credit score (I was paid every 2 weeks, so in my mind it made sense). After I was free and clear, I wanted to see what the "buzz" about Harley was - I was VERY rudely treated at the dealership, and vowed I would NEVER buy a Harley (or would discourage ANY of my off-spring from doing so). Harley made their grave - I'm now on a $32,000 Indian Roadmaster that is the FINEST bike I've EVER thrown a leg over. My brother and several of my friends own Harleys - when we go out on rides, I want to be in the back (they're NOT going to lose me) and when I see them getting "bounced" off their saddles, I don't even feel it on my bike.
Aftermarket for Harley had to be bigger, they didn’t do it right the first time! Harley charges an arm and a leg for options that come factory on Indians
Indian all day. I have had both.
I bought a 2021 Honda monkey to learn the basics than a year later after looking at different bikes I kept going back to the Indian scout. I got a 2023 Indian scout rogue and I couldn't be happier with it. Everytime I get off my bike I look back and say damn that's my bike! It handles like a dream and has more than enough power that I can't get bored of.
Rode Harleys all my life and love them ,on that note I purchased a 2019 chieftain dark horse because I liked the Fox rear shock much better for comfort for long hauls for the wife. I also use the auto locking saddle bags and auto up and down wind shield often and really enjoy them over Harley also the drive modes are cool too.
I was drawn to your comment about the Indian suspension. I have a 2020 Chieftan Classic. After 2000 km aI upgraded the forks with Traxion cartridges. I felt the stock front suspension was dangerous on wet rough surfaces as it would almost bounce at times and the front would wash out a few inches before regaining traction. It now handles like a huge sport bike. I absolutely fell in love with the styling. I also had met a Harley mechanic who bought an Indian bagger and he said it was all around a better quality machine. His analogy was the difference between a Ducati and a Japanese bike. I’ve added the top box with armrests for my sweetie and she loves it. I will keep the Chieftan till I die.
I've had the Indian Pursuit Dark Horse since November. I've put over 5k kilomètres on it already. She's a beauty and a beast. My Harley owner friends tell me they're jealous and wonder why Harley doesn't make a bike like the Pursuit. I tell them, don't worry, competition is a good thing and Harley will at some point. Just like they're trying to do with the Sportster S to compete with the Indian FTR. (there's no competition, though. FTR crushes Harley in this segment.)
Also, while I'm from New York, I now live in the south of Portugal where I ride all year long. Our local Indian dealer is amazing. I've bought a Scout and my current Pursuit from them. The 2023 FTR Carbon will soon be in my garage as well.
While Harley owners here are definitely into their brand, they're not as locked in as they are in the States. They admire Indian and the products they make. They're jealous over the Pursuit and the FTR. But we all get along just fine.
I just bought a Pursuit. What a bike! Solid frame, great suspension and POWER. Slip ons and I’m done. Makes my FLHTCU feel like an antique.
Love both brands and have owned both and currently have my third Indian a 22 Pursuit. Love it! And you are correct in the value get way more for your buck. With that said the bike is also far superior stock and you don’t have to spend 5-8 grand to make the power and handling that the iNdian does. I think they are beautiful looking as well.
I'm getting ready to buy my Indian challenger dark horse. Can't wait...
In June of 2020 I bought a brand new Indian Dark horse Challenger from Mission City Dealership in Boerne TX have put over 40k miles to date. I have taken my bike as far north to PA and toured all around TX hill county. I must say that this bike has exceeded all my expectations and some. I now have my eyes on the Persuit Elite. I am extremely pleased with the overall riding comfort, the performance and handling of the Indian. The ft pounds of torque and horsepower are impressive.
Did you try the chieftain? If so how does it compare to the challenger?
Kerrville texas says it all about the Ride,three sisters is my back yard. ❤
I have two victorys a vision and a Low
To be fair on heritage, there was that AMF debacle in the 70's & 80's... but at least they didn't drop completely off the map for 40-ish years.
I really don’t know what difference that makes…that was in the ‘50s. I’m not making a purchasing decision today on something that happened 70 years ago.
@@markkiger927
Noting the difference between the oldest American motorcycle brand, Indian, vs the oldest continuously opperating motorcycle brand, Harley Davidson.
Indian today isn't 8ndian from back then, dont be fooled by the name, Polaris bought Indian years ago and started to remake it them but it is not the same company at all nor the same product, more even a nod to that product
@@chrisdexter3451
True & well said. 👍
Whichever you prefer, Indian's revival has surely been forcing HD to up its game. I still think HD is missing a few options in their lineup whose absence just doesn't make sense for as long as they've been in the game. (The Bronx or FTR type equivalent) As far as the culture, I'm sure that's very regional, here in Utah biker groups are generally very diverse & pretty much everybody waves. My advice will always remain: get what you like, you're the one riding it. The rest will sort itself out.
Yep I got my Indian Cheiftain last year at bike week in Daytona barley saw any Indians last year I was really surprised on how many Indians their were this past month at bike week was good to see love my Indian it’s not perfect but every bike has flaws
I signed legal paperwork in 2011 saying that I would not say anything discouraging against HD following a legal battle over a denied warranty claim. With that said I have a 2011 Victory with 166K and a 2019 Chieftain Limited with 37K. Both flawless.
Didn't have a nearby Indian dealer, had similar experiences regarding Harley dealers. Having ridden mostly a 79' KZ1000 ST the past 17 years, I found a new 21' Vulcan 1700 Vaquero for about 2/3rds the price of either bike while checking out a new dealership in the area. Also get discounts on anything I buy there. I live in NH where you can really only ride 2/3-3/34 of the year. Just couldn't justify spending that much personally, only paid about $18k for the Vaquero.
I went from a road king to a chief vintage and Haven’t looked back. Great job summarizing both brands! I really don’t think you can go wrong with either
I owned a Road King. I was looking for a new bike. My local HD was horrible. Ton of people working every time I went in the store, never had anyone offer to help. Tried to get service on my Road King and they said it was to old. Tried to buy tires whey want $200 more and wet 6 plus weeks out. Local Indian dealer is great, but ended up buying a BMW R18B because of price. Got it fully loaded with all options for $16.3k after all rebates and discounts. Live the bike, never would of looked at if not treated so poorly at HD. I will probably never buy another HD, but will consider Indian in the future.
In my experience, although Harley has the biggest community, it's also got the most toxic community...hands down. The impression I always get is "you're welcome to hang with the group if you don't own a Harley....but you'd better know your place and worship at the alter when told to".
Some people are just aholes and you probably don't want to hang out with them if there wasn't a motorcycle.... it's more fun with a group of 3 who like to ride more then hang out BSing
toxic they are lol ...i discovered though any brand fanboy is on the same level ...heaven forbid you like more than 1 bike lolol
@@99naSvt BS, sounds like you have a bad attitude
I totally agree with you
I like Indian's train style fairing and the valenced front fender much better than the newer ones. I'm glad they still have it on the Roadmaster, and the Springfield.
Indian dealership: more like a car dealership not ment for hanging out and chatting with like minded people. Harley dealer: and experience and a hangout and chatting with like minded people.
I agree. The Indian dealers are usually paired up with Yamaha/KTM/Kaeasaki dealers next door
Both are great made in the USA bikes. As for myself (been riding since 1981) I haven't been able to talk myself into buying a Harley due to cost, maintenance schedule and last but not least I just don't like my handlebars shaking so badly that I can't see the mirrors at red lights. I ride an Indian Super Cheif Limited with stage 2 performance upgrade. The 116 ci thunder stroke engine is ultra reliable and has tons of torque. With my stage 2 kit, in sport mode it's no joke, it moves.
Handle bars only shake at idle. None felt when cruising.
@@darrinclem2502 That's true, I've ridden a few HDs over the last 40 years, mainly friend's bikes that we've traded for a few miles just to see how other bikes ride. I always wanted back on my Yamaha and Kawasaki cruiser within 10 minutes. HD has top of the line materials, but otherwise they're way overpriced. Ride safe and enjoy the ride.
I’ve owned both. And I agree 100% with everything you said you absolutely nailed it. I’m a 54-year-old rider who’s owned over 40 motorcycles.
I’ve owned over 10 Harleys over the years. I’m never buying another one. EVER.
I own a streetglide, back surgeons money making pot of gold, I would now rather push an Indian than ride a Harley
OK, now that you know the definition of " Harley really sucks "
I have owned a Victory XC for about 6yrs. Even though I’m still bitter about Polaris canning Victory, I’d still probably have a Challenger of some sort over an HD. The value is hard to beat and frankly a lot of HD’s just look so similar to me. I’m sure it’s different if you’re into them. But when there’s a row 50 HD’s, it’s hard to stand out.
I’m lucky to live within an hour and a half of both an Indian dealer and a Harley dealer with great customer service. Appleton Harley in Clarksville TN and Music City Indian in Nashville. I did my MSF course at the Harley dealership, but bought my Indian Chief Dark Horse at Music City Indian. I just love the looks and the rarity of the Indians, man. And personal opinion, I think the newer Indian engines are better built. The 116 Thunderstroke in the small Chief frame is insane! I have nothing against Harley, I may buy one someday, but for now Indian is designing better looking bikes in my opinion.
Whoa pretty gnarly to be watching a video and randomly hear a shoutout to my channel. Appreciate it man. Also, I MIGHT be watching your opinions as I weigh out potentially looking for a new bike.
I cringe when people use "dealer network" as a knock against other brands. Funny way of saying that your bike breaks down alot, you can't wrench on your own bike, or you just bought a Harley to feel special eating free donuts at the dealer on Saturdays. Its herd mentality at its purest form
Meanwhile people that own Indians, Triumphs, Aprilias, Ducatis, Moto Guzzis and Royal Enfeilds (very few dealers all around) get by just fine without $100 t-shirts and some fluffed up "heritage" story. We want to ride our machines, not be just another member of some cult. I think Harleys themselves are fantastic machines, but the majority of the HD crowd is toxic af
Why I got rid of my 17 Road Glide and switched to BMW K1600B water cooled. I don't sweat to death and my bike will smoke any HD out there. Especially if HD is stock. HD 102 HP - BMW 160HP. Got sick and tired of cleaning chrome. BMW takes me 45 minutes to clean. I ride my bike a lot. HD sat in the garage for 4 years. I put 4500 miles on the POS. Then when HD came out with the WHIM that only worked with wireless sena headsets which sound like crap. That was it. FInished with HD. You are just buying a name. People buy HD and first thing they want to do is dump a bunch of money in the bike to make theirs look different. They all look the same.
I have a HD softail and love my bike. Hoping to put a Springfield in my Garage too. Love the styling and comfort of that bike.
Started video, and paused to comment before I watched.
Here's my background.
I'm from the MKE area. My family is from MKE.
I'm a patriotic American. I remember when American made objectively, meant better.. I was a sk8er, a BMXer. I listened to punk rock.
I loved counter culture, even if it meant getting my as ass kicked. I built American hotrods, I loved speed, I raced motorcycles.. I loved performance.. but when it came to motor cycles, I never rode HDs. they and their fans were the status quo.. they haven't listened to the counter culture since the 70s. When they failed at technical progress hd blames their customers and They became the status quo.. they made fun of the counter culture they used to be while we the counter culture rode brands that handed them their asses in regards to objectively better performing..
Indian saw this.. Indian filled that starving Market of counter culture that still demands performance. Indian gave these people and my self a reason to buy an American motorcycle for the first time....I'm from MKE, I still say F you and now own 3 indians... because Indian actually listens to its customers and improves, while HD blames it's customers for it's failures..
Aftermarket is less of a worry for Indian, Because it's great from the jump. HD the after market is more important, because we'll, they need it, and still falls short..
That's not to say HD aren't reliable, but much like Glock, they rely on the after market to keep up with the company's that actually listened to it's customer's.....
I currently own a flhxs 2015 I bought new. Love the bike. Last summer I rented a roadmaster for a 5 day ride through Wisconsin. Within 5 minutes I rode over my first set railroad tracks. I waited for the thump. There was none. The ride is so incredibly smooth. Another thing was the navigation system. More user friendly and I loved the “center of town” feature. The flhxs needs an address. And the adjustable windscreen good grief I used that all the time,up when at highway speeds and lowered when going slower. Loved it. The locking bags and trunk with the key fob is a nice touch more for convenience. Longer floorboards was nice as well. Sure you definitely feel the engine heat when idling but overall I loved it. This summer we are doing a 3 dayer through the ozarks and will be renting a road glide limited. After that ride I will make up my mind which way to go, Indian or Harley.
What about the Harley AMF years?
i’ve been around a long time, I remember the 1984 tariff that Harley Davidson, CEO Vaughn Bealls convinced then President Ronald Reagan to put a tariff on Japanese motorcycles of 45%. A typical 750 cc Japanese motorcycle price went from 2999, to $4750 in an instant. It saved the 600 jobs at the Harley factory. But over the next two years, more than 1100 United States-based non-Harley dealerships went out of business permanently. I worked for three shops that went under because of that tariff selling motorcycles part time for 17 years. One of the owners that lost his shop, he literally lost everything, including his home because of the tariff. More than 7000 United States, citizens lost their jobs working in those motorcycle dealerships that went under. The industry has never recovered from the tariff and it actually went full circle and bit Harley Davidson in the ass to and they are paying the price right now…
how? back when motorcycles were good and cheap, a lot of young guys, and girls started out riding motorcycles, and when they got older and had families, they would buy their kids, mini bikes and small motorcycles, so they would all go riding on the weekends. That tariff made motorcycles too expensive so all those dads that never got started and then later got their kids into riding little bikes, that would eventually end up, riding big bikes someday, those generations of kids that never got started, a big percentage of them would have switched over to Harleys when they got older. Now, they didn’t grow up as motorcyclists. I realize not all of them would have bought Harleys, maybe only a few hundred thousand of them would’ve ended up on Harleys today.
right now, here in 2024, in my garage, or my 106th, 107th, 108th motorcycles that I have owned over the decades. Because of that terrible loan, I would never even consider buying a Harley… I have nothing against the Harley crowd, it’s the company I have hard feelings about because I was there when that tariff was imposed on me. I was working part time as a mechanic, and later as a salesman. I was making more money selling motorcycles and I was at my real job. In 1979, I was averaging about $600 a week selling motorcycles only working 15 hours a week. I got 3.5% of the taxable amount the bike sold for.
The shops I worked, for, slowly went out of business, because people stopped buying. I went to three different dealerships, and they went out of business. It was not worth going into work. The show rooms were deserted…
before the tariff, I had 22 nineHarley dealerships within an hour of my home. Today the tariff is still having an effect because there are only three dealerships left within an hour of my home. . that Harley imposed tariffs was devastating to motorcycling in the United States. And I ain’t forgetting that.
I have never had a Harley and I never will .. in fact, I only know of three riders that I have known over the decades that have switched from Japanese motorcycles to Harleys since the tariff. 95% of the riders I have known would never buy a Harley. They are two different categories of motorcyclists. There are Harley riders, and then there are the rest.
Harley Davidson has caused that split that still exist today. You could go into any Harley shop back in the 70s and 80s in my stickers that said, “friends don’t let friends ride rice burners “or, “two atomic bombs were not enough. “.. harley’s PR department made it as though you were un-American if you didn’t buy a Harley. Look at Harley today, they’re made in Brazil, India, they’re proposing to build a factory in Germany, and there’s one other country that they are building Harleys in. I thought they were going to be American through and through..
anyone that wasn’t there back in the late 70s and early 80s, can’t know what it was like. The Japanese were creating motorcycles with tubeless tires, electronic, ignition, water, cooling, triple disc bricks, two cylinders, V-twin, in-line fours, V fours, six cylinders., turbo, charging, full fairings, and color, matched bags, one key operated all the locks, they didn’t leak oil, they were utterly reliable, and they were very very inexpensive. That’s when I wanted to introduced the Goldwing interstate, the CBX six-cylinder .. The CX 500 turbo, suzuki, Yamaha, and Kawasaki also had big touring bikes, and turbocharged bikes. It seem like the advances in brakes, engine power, three and four valves per cylinder, it seemed like the technology was picking up speed right when the tariff put a stick in the spokes and stomped everything…
The market actually never recovered from that tariff to this day here in 2024. It is still crippled and it’s affecting Harley. Because all those guys would’ve started at young on small dirt bikes and gradually street bikes from Japan, would have someday switched to Harley when they became adults. They didn’t grow up as motorcyclists from a young age. That’s why there are so few millennials and generation X or whatever they’re called riding motorcycles these days, they didn’t take after their dad’s riding motorcycles from a young age. And passing it on to their kids, and passing it on to their kids, kids. We are three generations away from the tariff of the 80s, the price of motorcycles after the tariff expired four years later, never came back down. They did not lower the price of motorcycles by 45%. Harley did that. And today, all is not forgotten or forgiven.
I realize that if there was never a tariff, that all those generations of kids that would have grown up to riding bigger and bigger, Japanese motorcycles, and then eventually passing that on to their small kids, riding, mini bikes and dirt bikes, and they would start riding street bikes, and then bigger street bikes. I realize that they would not have switched to Harleys, not all of them. Maybe just a few hundred thousand of them would have switched to Harleys by this time. So the tariff actually went full circle and is biting a Harley in the ass right now.
when Harley got President Reagan to impose that 45% increase in price tariff on Japanese imported motorcycles, they eliminated generations of their own future customers that never grew up around motorcycles, because the tariff just made them too expensive..
I hope Harley Davidson survives the downward trend and motorcycle buying.. because if there was not a Harley Davidson, making motorcycles in the United States, there would possibly be more anti-motorcycle legislation and restriction in this country.. I hope they survive
Great video, dude, and timely too because I wanna share with you an American Biker experience from last weekend. You and I both live in CHS and ride H-D. Last weekend I went to AB because of the video you'd made on the '23 Challenger Elite. That was a killer video, the bike was stunning, and I wanted to see if they still had it. Plus, it was a promotional weekend for Indian at the dealership. So, I rode my new '23 Road King Special to AB, parked in front (the only H-D in the lot), and went in. The ladies at the front counter were super welcoming, and they always have been. Props to AB for that. The sales floor had quite a few customers, none of them looking at bikes; instead, literally ALL of them Slingshots. There were salespeople there, all of whom saw me looking at a particular Chieftain (love that bike). They also had the Challenger Elite you featured, yet it had been sold (equally as stunning in person, btw).
Here's the thing: not a SINGLE sales rep approached me, and I found that extremely off-putting. I'm obviously a biker (had my helmet in hand and all my gear), and who's to say I hadn't ridden there on an Indian I already own? The sales reps couldn't have seen my RKS in the lot because this was over by the clothing section near the back and none of them saw me come in. At any rate, I've loved the Springfield Dark Horse for the last couple of years and now the Chieftain has also caught my eye. In addition to my '23 RKS I also own a '21 Street Bob, but BASED ON YOUR VIDEOS, I've warmed to the idea of adding an Indian to the collection. But if nobody approaches me, especially when they see me seriously ogling one of their models (the Chieftain in this case), it turns me off.
I love the guys at LCHD and have a great relationship with them, from Sales to Parts to [especially] Service. I have all my work done there and trust them. But if I'm going to throw down for another bike that, honestly, I don't need and simply want to feed my addiction, based on the lack of interaction, I left there feeling like, "well, I could just buy a second RKS and I know what I'm getting." You make great points, and I love and respect your objectivity, so thank you for creating such outstanding content. It's invaluable because it enables your viewers to make fully-informed decisions. Just wanted to relay my experience, man. Safe riding and keep up the great work! ✌🤘
😂
Sometimes sales doesnt want to hound people. They get "just looking" a lot so they get gun shy. Just my opinion
Just bought a 2023 Challenger and loving it so far. Its not better than anything, its just different. Thats what I tell my Harley buds. We all have different likes and dislikes, if everyone is accepting of others, it should not be a problem. Both are American and great machines. Great videos with good advice
Completely off topic but that cloud at 02:50 looks eerily like a soldier
Bro I was JUST ABOUT TO comment on this. Yes. It really does. Face and all.
@@Bada_Boom78 I’m glad I’m not the only one!
One of the Five Harley dealerships in my area I can say I had a good experience. The two Indian dealerships they were absolutely fantastic!
Everyone I know rides Harley.. me too…. But I do like the Indian… they seem to have more artistry in the aesthetics of things.. maybe idk
💯
You know I’m glad to finally hear from someone that isn’t just a brand simp. I’m an Indian fanboy myself but ultimately I’m someone that understands theres a good reason Harley is still around.
The Victory Cross Country I had was probably the most comfortable bike I owned. It had its quirks. I went back to Harley after Polaris shut down Victory. That left some negative feelings towards Polaris. My resale value took a big hit and I was basically riding a depreciating asset that was depreciating like the speed of sound. Used Harleys go for 2-3x what same year used Victorys go for. Indians are about comparable to the Harleys. I’ve looked at Indian and they do have some nice features for the price. For now I’m staying on my Harley, even if I have to manually lock my bags. Polaris fooled me once.
I feel like Polaris should have kept victory as the performance brand and Indian is a heritage and just sold them in one dealership. They could have just continued to sell victories at Indian dealerships without even branding the dealership victory.
I'll always have my Vegas 8ball. That 106 is such a good engine
I’m not on either side but that new Indian Scout looks pretty freaking badass imo.
I agree with the Harley vs Indian dealerships. The sales department at my nearby Harley dealer is so accommodating, but once they hand you over to the finance department YUCK!
Funny you say that because I had something similar happen to me when I bought my first Harley
At Harley dealerships, it's all about the Bens💰!
Buy the NON WOKE brand.
Anyone who's feewings are hurt and offended by the big bad Hawey-Davidson
motorcycle company boss shouldn't be widing on two wheels...
He will soon be history while the bikes will outlive every one of us
Just forget the stupid woke bullshit and ride your bike
Harleys hated biker culture and prove it by having mechanically the worst brand out for decades lol from a bike mechanic @Truth...
I have owned 5 Harley's, 1 sporty, a FXRS, FXRL, and 2 FLHT's, 97/99. The last one for 14 years. Took a year off, had a Triumph for a commuter bike, and for the past 7 years an Indian Springfield. After changing the handlebars, adding Love Jugs and a stage 1 kit, I find my Indian to be as reliable, and more comfortable, than my Harleys were. I would still own a Harley, but am happy with my current bike.
I test drove an Indian Roadmaster just prior to the Polaris buyout. I had been riding HD Wide Glide, Road Kings, Street Glides and Road Glides and the Indian Roadmaster was the most comfortable bike I've ever rode. Unlike HD, the Indian had all the right accessories right from the factory. I've typically spent +- $10k on every HD I've had to "upgrade" it to what Indian considers standard equipment. I ended up going back to HD just because I was afraid of the dealer network and also the future of the brand after Polaris. Now bikeless again I am strongly considering the Roadmaster again.
@Peter Angles For you yes you should absolutely stay on Japanese bikes. Harley and or Indian aren’t for folks like you…
Makes no sense at all. Roadmaster came out in 2015. Polaris bought Indian in 2011. You know, it's quite easy to find basic information using internet search engines.
Actually, you didn't test drive a Roadmaster before Polaris bought Indian. Polaris bought Indian in 2011 and the Roadmaster came out in 2015. That said, it is often the case that Indian motorcycles come equipped with things that must be added to an H-D, such as LEDs, good suspension, comfortable seats, etc.
I was pleasantly surprised by the Shadow of Intent song playing out of nowhere. Keep up the good work!
I have always owned Harleys but think the Indian looks cool I would take one for sure if someone was offering
Harley has perfected the art of merchandising. They absolutely dominate when it comes to that. So many people own at least a t-shirt, hat, or sticker and don't even own the bike! For me, I went from a metric cruiser to a Harley Ultra Classic to an Ultra Limited. It all came down to looks. I think Indian clearly has the technology, but Harley has the better looking bikes, in my opinion. At the end of the day, ride what speaks to you and moves your soul.
Except for the Indian Vintage. More "retro" looking than any Harley!
@@seadog686 more retro yes, but NOT better looking.
It's cool how the latest HD Sportster, redesigned after 60+ years, looks so much like a 10 year old Indian Scout.
@@Havanorange and an Indian scout looks like a victory octane. The new rebel is also a close cousin to that aesthetic.
After that intro, there is no way anybody would not watch the entire video... SUBSCRIBED!
I traded a 2018 Ultra Limited with a Stage IV upgrade for a stock Indian Roadmaster. The Roadmaster is better in every way. And $13,000 cheaper.
I ride a Harley now and have had mostly Harleys in the past. I had a Gilroy CMC Indian 2002 Scout. That was a beast! I would love to try a new Polaris Indian but the dealerships are too far away.
I've owned 3 Harleys and loved them all. However on my last purchase after test riding a cheiftain darkhorse in daytona I came home a matte black 2023 model. The features and how good it rides/handles sold me instantly. I'll always love harley no doubt but I just felt the most comfortable I've ever felt on the cheiftain darkhorse I test rode.
I ride a different brand now but that will change in the near future. I've been torn on which way to go re Harley or Indian. I guess I should say Road Glide or Pursuit. I agree 100% with your analysis. Great video.
My biggest concern with Indian is, I had a Victory for years. Which was the original Polaris motorcycle. They were awesome bikes!!! Totally stock it would keep up with or out run most Harley’s even with screaming eagle package. I lost all trust in Polaris motorcycles after that. They dropped Victory and all the support of the ones on the road. Made me nervous to go on any long rides without any dealer support.
I understand what your saying. However I see the Victory line influence in many Indian bikes. I have a 14 Vision. I would love to have a Roadmaster or Pursuit. I think Polaris would have to go out of business to stop supporting these bikes they've created.
@Peter Angleslol hu, I wonder why I'm replacing the engine in a 07 1600 Vulcan classic with 40k on it. I grew up in a shop I understand maintenance. I changed the oil and preformed other required services religiously.
@Peter Angles I have a kawi 05 concours. Great bike. But so is my Vision.
Vulcan, bevel gear bearing.
I just have to say mad props for putting Shadow of Intent's music in your video hahaha! I recognized it almost instantly and had to pause the video.
Indian pulls in riders from all models… not just “fan boys” … Tons of metric riders inc gold wing owners stepping up to the Indian … I myself traded a Kawasaki Vulcan voyager for the Indian pursuit… liquid cooled vtwin was a mandate ..
Yep, the majority of HD fanatics just wanted to sit at the cool kids table and be a part of a cult. Majority of people that ride Metrics and Indians do it because they like the machine itself and could care less about what everyone else rides
If that were true more people would ride Indian, but nope, fact is a LOT more people ride Harley. So I guess that makes your statement false.
My statement had nothing to do with sales numbers … just who the typical buyer is … but since you brought it up… Harley lost 15% market share 20-21… Indian gained 7% … still far behind Harley… but like the title says … the truth hurts
You just wait for the 2025 goldwing. I saw a preview. That bike looks spectacular.
Remember Harley was AMF for a while. (The shit years lol)
Good video brudda
Both motorcycles companies are good companies even motorcycles company that sells Honda and ninjas and gold wings etc. it’s all about riding
I own two victory motorcycle, I just Ride,I meet up with all motorcycle riders.I'm surprised that they like my motorcycles. Just ride what you love ❤️
Just curious, when did you make this transition to Indian? When I first started watching your channel a couple of years ago you were 100% Harley.
great review, you nailed it, long time Harley owner/ rider, i have had them darn near all, from naked road kings, ultras, RG special street glides etc… and recently switched to an indian pursuit limited w/premium package, yes its not the cool HD that everyone wants or loves, but the ride, suspension,power handling, no buffeting w/adjustable windscreen, i too was the indian doubter one 15 min demo ride and yes, its a game changer
Another benefit to the Harleys are all of the extra gaskets and O-Rings it has over the Indian to leak from. 😁 I know. I own a Harley that I did not get to ride much in 2022 because I was chasing an oil leak.
lol awesome feature
It it a weep, seep or leak 😆
@@larry648 It was an oil pan gasket. Bike is a 2005 FLHRCI. I used the manual's torque specs. About the 5th gasketI finally found out that the newer Twin Cams were using a higher torque spec so I torqued the last one to the newer specs. Leaks stop at about the end of the riding season.
My neighbor bought a new 2022 Street Glide last year. The engine had oiling issues and cooked the motor with only 800 miles. The dealer wanted to just rebuild it. I worked at a dealership for 12yrs. I told him to say he wanted a new engine or a new bike, because a new bike with a rebuilt engine is a lemon in my book.
I have rode Harley since high school in the 80’s. Worked at a dealership and owned over 50 bikes to date. I owned 3 Twin cams and can say the last great Harley engine was the EVO from 1983-1998. My last Harley is a 1997 Electra Glide. My next bike will be a Indian. I remember working at the dealership when Polaris came out with the Victory. We got a few on trade and couldn’t give them away, sent them all to Auction. But that was over 25yrs ago. I worked at the dealership when Indian built bikes in like 99-01 with the S&S motors and built in Las Vegas I believe. We took them on. They was big heavy Pigs and only lasted a few years, we couldn’t give them away.
But when Polaris bought the Indian Name a few years ago I knew they had the money, design and technology to build a great bike. I seen how far they came with their 4 wheeler and SxS line.
My next new bike will be a Indian. I believe this man just gave the most honest review I seen about the two companies. I refuse to walk in the door of a HD dealership. I went to 3 different shops to buy a new Road Glide a couple years ago, I was a cash customer. All 3 treated me like crap, the salesman wouldn’t get out of their seats to show me the bikes. To be honest I knew more about the bike than they did with just a few questions.
H-D will have its loyal customers for a few more years, but as Gen X (me) ages and stops riding they are in trouble. Because the next generation grew up with Polaris 4 wheelers and SxS’s with great customer service. They don’t remember the sad Victory days. They don’t know the Real Indian Motorcycle company went out of business in 1953. They are into technology and this New Indian Motorcycle has Harley beat.
I'm a fan of Indian, decided to go with an iron 883 for my first bike though. I think I'll ride it for a couple of seasons then upgrade to something else, probably an Indian of some kind.
That was my first Harley too. Congrats brother
@Hegshot Rides thank you, mainly did it for aftermarket support, plus used Harleys are cheaper than used Indians that I've seen.
I bought an 2024 Indian Scout Icon back in March. Absolutely love it.
With Harley dealerships, it's ALL about the Bens 💰!
Well I was always and still love Metric motorcycles, I grew up riding sport bikes. Now that I am older my first bike was a Honda Shadow, but then wanted a bagger so I bought a Kawasaki Vaquero which was a great bike. Having bad knees I traded it in on a Can Am spyder but it didn't ride like a motorcycle so I had to buy a motorcycle with 2 wheels. I bought am Honda St1300 and love it. I ride with a bunch of Harley riders who doesn't care what bike I ride and I rode several of those. So I decided I needed a bagger but didn't want a Me 2 bike ( I have a black Harley, Me 2) lol. I found a Indian Chieftain Elite (2018) with the special paint job. Now when we all stop and there is mainly black Harley's alot of people gather around the Indian. Long way around it I preferred the Indian Elite. I just Love riding and do not care what people around me ride as long as it's on 2 or 3 wheels. Great vid
No Harley was owned by a bowling ball company, at one point. So Harley was not Harley, they were AMF Harley, just like Polaris Indian. And I am a fan of both, because I own both, and I own Victory and I have a Honda. LOL
Sorry but Indian was a stopped being made several times. Harley has always been produced without a break sorry but Indian is not over 100 years old.
Don't get your feathers ruffled I was just making a point that Harley Davidson hasn't always been just Harley Davidson.
I tell people that Indian and HD are actually owned by some of the same groups. Check out the largest stockholders.
@Greg Seegers so, a company thats been around forever still can't get it right? 🤣 if Harley made decent machines for the money, nobody would even have to use weak excuses like heritage, resale value and dealer network. Indian is Polaris, Harley used to sell snowmobiles.....who gives a shit about heritage?!
I've had a chieftain dark horse for almost 2 years and it's treated me really well. I can't get past the harley kickstand lol
I got to make a correction. Harley was owned by AMF for a few years. Sure they had the name but wasn`t a true Harley.
Wasn't expecting to hear Shadow of Intent in this video. Nice choice and good video
I had the challenger.. and have a 128 FLHTP with a ton of the money into it .. the challenger was a good bike.. but soft.. the tune was terrible.. I got a k1600b... I will be a bmw fanboy for a while now
I bought my Indian in 2018.
I've been on poker runs with 265 bikes and I was the only Indian !
They get ALOT of attention !
I do agree with 90% of what you said !
Indian does need to step up their game in a major areas !
1st is finish ! HD bikes are beautiful and the paint choices are amazing !
2nd is apparel ! Polaris has enough money to do better for the Indian community !
Harley was owned by AMF from 1969- 1981....just FYI...
They also designed the evo, Harley’s best motor.
There is a light by the end of the tunnel.
That’s a Honda Gold Wing coming at you ❗️
Team Indian
I've been riding many years and have owned 3 Harleys. A Sportster, a Dyna and a Road Glide Special. I now own a Indian Pursuit Darkhorse Elite. This Indian is by far, hands down the best bike I've ever ridden. The main reason I checked the Indian out was the suspension. When I tell you that it blew my mind, it an understatement. Then everything else just fell in line with what I wanted. And the icing on the cake was the price. Way more bang for the buck. What I got would have cost me $50k at Harley (got a buddy that works there and he tried) for almost $9k less. I've been riding it now for about 4 months and I try to find something I don't like. I've only found 2. The heat that hits my legs is hotter. but it is off set a little by the vents. Lack of AM part availability is another but nothing that one can't figure out.
I am not sure about the dealer network being ok with Indian... 2 Harley dealers within 15 miles of me... nearest Indian Dealer is in another state at 160 miles, and next nearest is same state at around 180 miles. I'd love an Indian, but I'd really want a dealer close by.
They really need more dealerships. Even if they atr corporations owned
That is certainly an issue in parts of the country, certainly compared to HD. I have 6 Indian dealers w/in 100 miles.
This. There are 675 HD dealers across the US vs 197 Indian dealers. How he can call that a wash is beyond me… and worse yet, all or nearly all of the HD dealers are gonna be exclusively HD. Most of the Indian dealers are gonna sell multiple bike brands. So the gap in support is actually wider than the 675 vs 197
I had a horrible buying experience when I purchased my Indian but I absolutely love my bike. No one at my local Harley dealer would even talk about their bikes with me.
My Indian dealer 2 miles from my house was very untransparent with their pricing. I struggled to get an put the door price until I said I got a written quote from another Indian dealer. The local dealer came up with $1,250 in hidden fees.
To sum it up the dealer is trash but I love my bike
Why does there need to be the best. I’ve owned 2 Indian’s and about 7 Harley’s. I like both but I have to say Harley has the nod for dealer network and history of Harley.
Because it's fun to talk about
Both are great brands and are doing great things. Indian is ahead right now in modern features, power and value but that will most likely change. The biggest question to ask yourself when buying these bikes is, can you let go of the Harley brand name? Is the name important to you?
The Triumph Rocket eats them both up. Pfffffft.
I enjoy Motorcycling. I like that we have choices & options when it comes to motorcycles. I've been blessed since riding motorcycles since 82' I've had the chance to own, ride, wrench on many different manufacturers. I've owned something from most major brands (exception BMW & Yamaha). You work for your money, you vote with your dollars, you purchase what motorcycle you want.
50 years riding and owning many different bikes in that time. Purchased a Triumph Bonneville couple years ago. Fantastic reliable machine that'll see me out.
122 hp 128 tq
I traded my 09 Kawasaki voyager with low miles for a brand new 22 Indian Roadmaster best decision I ever made and even my Harley buddies were impressed but either or is all good. We just love to go
Traded a 2018 goldwing RM is so much better