Hey guys, with 1.77 on the horizon im trying to work a bit trough my to do list! :) A long standing request by many of you was for me to review one of the Me 410's, which were requested a lot, in a lot of different variations. I decided to start at the beginning of the line ;) the Me 410 A-1! Hope you enjoy! Dont forget to like, comment and subscribe for more. Have a great weekend :)
To be honest, I really enjoyed spading this plane, good firepower, kinda fast for its br and people dont expect it to be able to do anything! and the airbrakes are nice too! (allthough I dont recall all of the Me410s having the airbrakes, But I do know the B6/R3 does)
It has control stiffening due to the unstable nature of its design, its an upgrade from the me-210 which had a shorter tail and db605’s so the handling would be even more off balance
I just finished spading these not long ago, and had a blast doing so. I ended up using it as a ground attack/support aircraft. Good for two kills and a crash per match ;) Stay low and fast...
I've not noticed any stiffening especially after coming from the do217 n1, and it also seems to have far greater coverage from the gunners, better accuracy, might be the better turning, and a great bombload for a heavy fighter easily far more fun than the do217 but not as powerful as the beaufighter for ground striking. I'd recommend hunting attackers or medium and heavy tanks with the bomb loads at the start, second ever match i shot down a corsair, a helldiver, a spitfire mk5, and an A5M6 captured before a p51 killed me by adding onto my previous injuries, I'd rate it a 8.5/10.
One thing you may have missed is that this plane does have airbrakes, so it's pretty easy to force someone to overshoot if they're on your tail, and you can pull off some really tight turns in it (for its size, anyway,) I agree with your evaluation. Fun to fly, but doesn't really excel at anything.
the G2 might be the best 109 in terms of performance/BR. the other Gustav 109s are a bit high in BR and F-2, F-4s have a lighter weight so it doesn't do well in pure energy fight.
Tony Ennis Sort of. Or as mentioned, you can't just say this is a turn fighter or an energy fighter... preventing it from being an easy fit to a predetermined plug and play style. So you need to become an expert in the specific plane. Sometimes that challenge can be the most fun.
If I were looking for guidance, I am not sure D Kennedy's response would be helpful. "A pilot dedicated from getting the most from this plane can achieve a mediocre result." If that's what a person is seeking in WT I suppose that could be fun.
Tony Ennis If your only definition of fun is limited to winning, then you're always going to be better off playing the super easy seal clubbers. But hat's not how I approach it. The harder I have to work to reach a high level the more rewarding it is. And perhaps I'm in the minority but I'm certainly not alone. That aside, I think you're missing the point, which isn't that these planes can't do well or be fun, but simply that they require familiarity for even otherwise experienced pilots. They can be frustrating for new pilots (they were for me when I was spading them) which is why so many resort to nothing but head-ons, which these are pretty decent at.
Respectfully, I do get what you are saying. I am not trying to bust you. I suppose where I am getting hung up is the lack of admission on Jengar's or you part (grammar!) that the plane is mediocre or worse. Now I parse what you said as "If you dedicate a lot of time to it, this plane can produce a mediocre result if you don't mind losing a lot. Achieving this result can be fun." You see, when I watch a Jengar video, I am looking for _guidance_ as well as entertainment. And in this case, I think he is being too nice. If someone wants to spend a lot of time working on a challenging heavy fighter, how about working on the P-38 series? Last word is yours :-)
Fireraid233 I like the 102 a lot, at least in arcade. It packs a massive punch for a 3.0. I've never flown it in RB though. At 3.7 with only 16 rounds in the big gun it's probably not quite as easy.
hey Jengar, use the Ki-45 tei Toryu which has the Schrage Musik!!! my favorite plane in war thunder. I think I have never seen anyone actually use the plane as you can only get 1 or 2 kills with it but it is so satisfying to be under someone and just get close and blow them up. The 37mm is very good but it is very limited to slow bombers. (my wish is that we get the bf 110 that has Schrage Musik, hopefully it will come out in 1.77
I'm not very experienced in the 410's other than the 50 mm armed ones (I'm a ground pounder at heart), but after listening to the aircraft's strengths and weaknesses, I surmise that the plane is best as a support fighter. I also think it would be good in short range, shallow angle (20-30 degree dive at most) slashing passes, preferably against bombers, but could be done on fighters. Also, is there any way you can do a video on climbing efficiently, or point me to a video that could explain it better if you can't explain it how you want to? I'm struggling to keep energy after climbing to combat altitude and need to engage someone that is a few hundred meters below me as they burst climb and catch me with no energy to evade or make them stall.
One thing I never understood is why in this game the Allied 2 engine heavy fighters are powerful "terrors of the skies" and all the German ones are near useless flying bricks. Don't the same laws of physics apply to Allied 2 engine fighters? What did they do so much different in their designs?
That probably has changed now, but back in the patch 1.2 and earlier days, the Beaufighters were feared and even called OP at times. The P-38 still seems to do well and so does the F7F, don't they? They are actually capable fighters that can hold their own, while German heavy fighters have always been vultures who can only sneak some shots in while the enemy is distracted, or hope for headons. I think the Do-335 is a weird disappointment. The plane was specifically designed to get around the usual limitations of heavy fighters. It was meant to get the power of 2 engines, but without the additional drag. And from what you hear in historical reports, it seemed to have worked. Yet, in this game it is just another helpless, sluggish, underwhelming German heavy fighter, like all the others.
Not their in game flight model, certainly. But they ought to have had all the problems you get with a twin engine heavy fighter. Its combat weight was 8 tons. I think that is enough to qualify as a heavy fighter. The Bf 110 weighted 200 kg less. Not joking. You just have more drag on those 2 engine fighters. Twice the power, sure, but thrice or more the drag too. You don't just have to shove the 2 engine blocks through the air, but also the cockpit and you need huge wings. That was the whole idea behind the Do-335 after all. They didn't design that thing the way they did for shits and giggles, but to find a way to get 2 engines on a plane without the usual horrible increase in drag and loss of roll rate. The P-38 normally would have had an atrocious roll rate, considering that it didn't just have 2 engines, but also 2 tails and most of the aircraft's mass was off-center-axis. The only way to get around that was to put those huge ailerons on it. But as you surely know, huge ailerons mean huge drag. You are shoveling a lot of air around every time you use those things. It is as if you would deploy landing flaps every time you roll your plane a bit. So the energy retention must have been pretty bad on the P-38 every time you did any maneuvering. In aircraft design everything is a compromise and you pay a price for any increase of performance in one segment. You want more X, you lose more Y and vice versa. The game developers can sometimes handwave and explain stuff away with "super powerful engines", like on the Griffon Spitfires (x), but you can't even do that with the P-38, because it only had two 1600 HP engines, which was not very impressive by the standards of the time. So the possible explanation that it just "pushed through" the energy loss with brute engine force doesn't really work either. In this game it just seems German heavy fighters do follow the laws of physics a bit more than certain others. That doesn't only apply to heavy fighters though. The fucking 109 G-6 feels more sluggish and heavy than the P-38 and it, despite being the heaviest 109 ever, still only weighted less than 3.2 tons. At least it did feel like that back when I played the game. (x) As with many other planes, I'm dubious about the high end Spitfires in this game. What I mean is that they had powerful engines, but in the end they were still Spitfires, still had big, beefy wings that produced a lot of drag, no matter how polished and shiny they might have been. I have a hard time believing that none of that counts anymore suddenly and the plane can do everything better than other planes, just because it has 30% more horse power than older Spitfires.
The P63s arent bad...it just takes getting some used too because of the high velocity Mgs and the low velocity 37mm cannon (which is inaccurate when you dont have the upgrade for the cannon yet) and performance wise, its fine
The 37mm on the Yaks have a higher fire rate and higher muzzle velocity, making them easier to aim. the M3 cannon the P63 has is quite a bit more difficult :'D
Jengar that's exactly my point. No matter which model of the Hornisse you look at, it's outperformed by any British or US heavy fighter by any mean. The 410s deserve some love from gaijin... They haven't been touched for the last 3 years when it comes to BR or flight model. During this time everything has changed.
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I'm glad that you liked the first plane of Me-410 series Jengar! I'm surprised that it surprised you!
me too ;)
Hey guys, with 1.77 on the horizon im trying to work a bit trough my to do list! :) A long standing request by many of you was for me to review one of the Me 410's, which were requested a lot, in a lot of different variations. I decided to start at the beginning of the line ;) the Me 410 A-1! Hope you enjoy! Dont forget to like, comment and subscribe for more. Have a great weekend :)
To be honest, I really enjoyed spading this plane, good firepower, kinda fast for its br and people dont expect it to be able to do anything! and the airbrakes are nice too! (allthough I dont recall all of the Me410s having the airbrakes, But I do know the B6/R3 does)
fair enough mate :)
Where do you find these geniuses who head-on a Me410?
hehe, good question ;)
great vid as usual Jengar I hope you do an indepth review of the He177 in the next update
i will! :)
It has control stiffening due to the unstable nature of its design, its an upgrade from the me-210 which had a shorter tail and db605’s so the handling would be even more off balance
fair enough, still not nice though ;)
Thank you Jengar!
you are welcome!
XD a very happy day seeing you working on the ME410 line i love these things...don't forget the Air break H key
yeah, guess i got to get used to using that more often on this one ;)
This came Just in time, as i was doubting to go for the me410's or the bombers so thx jengar. I think i know what ill do
np mate!
Jengar your close to 8,000 subscribers
yeah, we're getting there ;)
I'm with you on the 'role' of this little sweetheart. I aint figured it out yet either but she sure looks dandy, don't she? Looks dangerous.
yeah absolutely :)
Had a great time in RB enduring confrontation with this little beauty. (She's not slim, but you don't say that to a classy fraulein.)
hehe, true!
I just finished spading these not long ago, and had a blast doing so. I ended up using it as a ground attack/support aircraft. Good for two kills and a crash per match ;) Stay low and fast...
support plane sounds good to me ;)
Good Job Jengar, LOVE YOUR VIDOES! can you do british mosquito and tempest?
mosquito is on my list, tempest's i have vids up on both! :)
Good stuff mate you dont see this one to often :)
cheers monk!
I've not noticed any stiffening especially after coming from the do217 n1, and it also seems to have far greater coverage from the gunners, better accuracy, might be the better turning, and a great bombload for a heavy fighter easily far more fun than the do217 but not as powerful as the beaufighter for ground striking.
I'd recommend hunting attackers or medium and heavy tanks with the bomb loads at the start, second ever match i shot down a corsair, a helldiver, a spitfire mk5, and an A5M6 captured before a p51 killed me by adding onto my previous injuries, I'd rate it a 8.5/10.
compared to the do217n1 this is a zero i agree ;)
One thing you may have missed is that this plane does have airbrakes, so it's pretty easy to force someone to overshoot if they're on your tail, and you can pull off some really tight turns in it (for its size, anyway,) I agree with your evaluation. Fun to fly, but doesn't really excel at anything.
yeah, the airbrakes ad a little something, thats true.
A like and a comment to help the channel.
ty sir!
For god sake man, enjoying and liked your vids when i noticed i hadnt fucking subbed XD god damnit man.
never too late to correct that error ;) and thanks for the support!
Did you ever user the rearguns? It looks like they're there for 'spek en bonen'. Great video again!
Spek en bonen indeed!
Get à like you are very good
ty sir! o7
Im so close to getting my first ever german fighter jet 2021 ho 229
I hope the video tittle alone is enough to trigger some people :P
Polaventris IKR? 😜
;)
you should try the 109G2.Its so OP im grinding SL For F86F2 in it
the G2 might be the best 109 in terms of performance/BR. the other Gustav 109s are a bit high in BR and F-2, F-4s have a lighter weight so it doesn't do well in pure energy fight.
i have reviews up on the g-2, great plane!
Does "I don't know what style to use" mean "this plane is basically substandard in all ways?"
Tony Ennis Sort of. Or as mentioned, you can't just say this is a turn fighter or an energy fighter... preventing it from being an easy fit to a predetermined plug and play style. So you need to become an expert in the specific plane. Sometimes that challenge can be the most fun.
kennedy worded it nicely here! :)
If I were looking for guidance, I am not sure D Kennedy's response would be helpful. "A pilot dedicated from getting the most from this plane can achieve a mediocre result." If that's what a person is seeking in WT I suppose that could be fun.
Tony Ennis If your only definition of fun is limited to winning, then you're always going to be better off playing the super easy seal clubbers. But hat's not how I approach it. The harder I have to work to reach a high level the more rewarding it is. And perhaps I'm in the minority but I'm certainly not alone. That aside, I think you're missing the point, which isn't that these planes can't do well or be fun, but simply that they require familiarity for even otherwise experienced pilots. They can be frustrating for new pilots (they were for me when I was spading them) which is why so many resort to nothing but head-ons, which these are pretty decent at.
Respectfully, I do get what you are saying. I am not trying to bust you. I suppose where I am getting hung up is the lack of admission on Jengar's or you part (grammar!) that the plane is mediocre or worse. Now I parse what you said as "If you dedicate a lot of time to it, this plane can produce a mediocre result if you don't mind losing a lot. Achieving this result can be fun."
You see, when I watch a Jengar video, I am looking for _guidance_ as well as entertainment. And in this case, I think he is being too nice. If someone wants to spend a lot of time working on a challenging heavy fighter, how about working on the P-38 series?
Last word is yours :-)
Please do a video on Typhoon Mark 1B or Yak 7 B on Realistic battles
its on the to do list!
Play one of the Japanese heavy fighters.
which one? ;)
Jengar the Ki-102 or one of the first Ki-45.
Fireraid233 I like the 102 a lot, at least in arcade. It packs a massive punch for a 3.0. I've never flown it in RB though. At 3.7 with only 16 rounds in the big gun it's probably not quite as easy.
hey Jengar, use the Ki-45 tei Toryu which has the Schrage Musik!!! my favorite plane in war thunder. I think I have never seen anyone actually use the plane as you can only get 1 or 2 kills with it but it is so satisfying to be under someone and just get close and blow them up. The 37mm is very good but it is very limited to slow bombers. (my wish is that we get the bf 110 that has Schrage Musik, hopefully it will come out in 1.77
I'm not very experienced in the 410's other than the 50 mm armed ones (I'm a ground pounder at heart), but after listening to the aircraft's strengths and weaknesses, I surmise that the plane is best as a support fighter. I also think it would be good in short range, shallow angle (20-30 degree dive at most) slashing passes, preferably against bombers, but could be done on fighters.
Also, is there any way you can do a video on climbing efficiently, or point me to a video that could explain it better if you can't explain it how you want to? I'm struggling to keep energy after climbing to combat altitude and need to engage someone that is a few hundred meters below me as they burst climb and catch me with no energy to evade or make them stall.
yeah support plane is the way to go!
climb on a speed not an angle!
and keep situational awareness sharp. Pick up speed if you susppect a zoomclimb attack.
I always get hed on by heavy fighters. Even i go head on with them or evade, i get shot, for both situation.
its danegrous, roll off in time.
hey jengar whats ur real life job?
i work with mentally disabled ppl.
oh your a doctor?
One thing I never understood is why in this game the Allied 2 engine heavy fighters are powerful "terrors of the skies" and all the German ones are near useless flying bricks.
Don't the same laws of physics apply to Allied 2 engine fighters?
What did they do so much different in their designs?
these arnt bad though, which allied heavy fighters are terrors of the sky? ;) they often have similar downsides then axis ones.
That probably has changed now, but back in the patch 1.2 and earlier days, the Beaufighters were feared and even called OP at times. The P-38 still seems to do well and so does the F7F, don't they?
They are actually capable fighters that can hold their own, while German heavy fighters have always been vultures who can only sneak some shots in while the enemy is distracted, or hope for headons.
I think the Do-335 is a weird disappointment. The plane was specifically designed to get around the usual limitations of heavy fighters. It was meant to get the power of 2 engines, but without the additional drag. And from what you hear in historical reports, it seemed to have worked.
Yet, in this game it is just another helpless, sluggish, underwhelming German heavy fighter, like all the others.
the p-38's are good sure, but in a way you can almost not consider them heavy fighters ;)
Not their in game flight model, certainly. But they ought to have had all the problems you get with a twin engine heavy fighter.
Its combat weight was 8 tons. I think that is enough to qualify as a heavy fighter. The Bf 110 weighted 200 kg less. Not joking.
You just have more drag on those 2 engine fighters. Twice the power, sure, but thrice or more the drag too. You don't just have to shove the 2 engine blocks through the air, but also the cockpit and you need huge wings.
That was the whole idea behind the Do-335 after all. They didn't design that thing the way they did for shits and giggles, but to find a way to get 2 engines on a plane without the usual horrible increase in drag and loss of roll rate.
The P-38 normally would have had an atrocious roll rate, considering that it didn't just have 2 engines, but also 2 tails and most of the aircraft's mass was off-center-axis. The only way to get around that was to put those huge ailerons on it.
But as you surely know, huge ailerons mean huge drag. You are shoveling a lot of air around every time you use those things. It is as if you would deploy landing flaps every time you roll your plane a bit.
So the energy retention must have been pretty bad on the P-38 every time you did any maneuvering.
In aircraft design everything is a compromise and you pay a price for any increase of performance in one segment. You want more X, you lose more Y and vice versa.
The game developers can sometimes handwave and explain stuff away with "super powerful engines", like on the Griffon Spitfires (x), but you can't even do that with the P-38, because it only had two 1600 HP engines, which was not very impressive by the standards of the time. So the possible explanation that it just "pushed through" the energy loss with brute engine force doesn't really work either.
In this game it just seems German heavy fighters do follow the laws of physics a bit more than certain others.
That doesn't only apply to heavy fighters though. The fucking 109 G-6 feels more sluggish and heavy than the P-38 and it, despite being the heaviest 109 ever, still only weighted less than 3.2 tons. At least it did feel like that back when I played the game.
(x) As with many other planes, I'm dubious about the high end Spitfires in this game. What I mean is that they had powerful engines, but in the end they were still Spitfires, still had big, beefy wings that produced a lot of drag, no matter how polished and shiny they might have been. I have a hard time believing that none of that counts anymore suddenly and the plane can do everything better than other planes, just because it has 30% more horse power than older Spitfires.
You didnt know it had an airbrake did you :)
Who was the winner of giveaway? :)
there is no winner yet, i'll give ppl a few more days to leave comments.
Can you do a video on the P63 , see how bad it is
The P63s arent bad...it just takes getting some used too because of the high velocity Mgs and the low velocity 37mm cannon (which is inaccurate when you dont have the upgrade for the cannon yet) and performance wise, its fine
Mike P I love the p63. It has above average overall performance and when you learn the gun you shred everything
Honestly I expected it to be like the 37mm on the Yak but I was wrong
The 37mm on the Yaks have a higher fire rate and higher muzzle velocity, making them easier to aim. the M3 cannon the P63 has is quite a bit more difficult :'D
Have to say tho all I'm seeing right now is just sparks
CAN YOU DO A REVIEW ON THE ME 410 b6/r3
Why did I got removed from Sqadron??????
Where you Active
what is your ingame name?
Meanwhile p61 4.7BR... F82 5.0 lol
Not sure what your point is.
some of the variations of this plane are 5.3 ;) which is funny looking at the FM.
Jengar that's exactly my point. No matter which model of the Hornisse you look at, it's outperformed by any British or US heavy fighter by any mean. The 410s deserve some love from gaijin... They haven't been touched for the last 3 years when it comes to BR or flight model. During this time everything has changed.