The One Thing I Wish the Vader Kenobi Fight Included
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2022
- PADME! Qui-Gon Jinn! Turning Anakin back! These were some things I would have liked to have seen incorporated into the fight at one point or another, where Vader would either go full rage or he'd be broken down a bit and have to talk with Obi-Wan about everything (or some things) that happened to him.
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James Earl Jones' voice saying "now this is pod racing!" as he forces all those rocks onto Kenobi?
Absolutely
I love how much Star Wars you use in your history videos 😆
Hahahahaha bro that just played out in my head could you imagine?? 🤣🤣🤣 I think I would piss my pants in surprise and hysteria! 🤣
Also when fighting an inquisitor spinning that’s a good trick
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I've thought "I am not your failure, Obi Wan" is Anakin briefly forgiving him--giving him reassurance. His words are a big "I made my choice, Obi Wan, and we must both live with that."
100% that's what I got from that too ... it was Anakin who said those words, and then immediately afterwards Vader took back over with that maniacal grin when he says he killed Anakin.
Yeah honestly it was fine. Cause even obi wan said he’s sorry for everything. So it woulda been kinda pointless to talk about other stuff
I saw it as him not wanting pity from Obi-Wan.
The line was a response to what Obi-Wan said in Ep.3, “I have failed you, Anakin. I have failed you.”
100% percent agree I got that same feeling as well. Anakin pretty much telling Obi-Wan “I made my choice this is not on you” essentially saying don’t feel sorry for me. It is what it is now. But also giving Obi-Wan that slight reassurance to him. Because he (Vader) was battling with the conflict inside him during the battle hence the change of light and dark on his face.
An interesting thing I found with both Obi-wan and Ahsoka when they dueled Vader and subsequently saw Anakin: both expressed guilt for failing him in their own ways and pity for the state he is in. Luke was different. Luke stopped, deactivated his lightsaber, proudly proclaimed he was just like his Father, and even pleaded for his Father's protection when the emperor shot him with lightning. Anakin felt needed, rather than pitied. Real trauma victims usually hate being pitied, hate being babied, and hate being someone else's problem that needs to be fixed. The real way to help a victim is to show them how to be a solution, how they can help someone else and show that they are needed, that they have the ability to do something the right way. Palpatine gave Vader this, but it was always conditional, it must be for the emperor's gain, and usually required Vader to do things he didn't want to do but had to do in obedience to his master. Luke wanted his father to be his father, he needed Anakin to fulfill that role that Anakin really wanted in the first place. In the end, that's what turned him to the light.
This.
Wow, I love this perspective. Never thought of it this way, thanks for sharing.
Well said 🇺🇸🇺🇸🦿🇺🇸
BRILLIANT 👏 ❤️
Everyday, someone writes up a brilliant perspective on Anakin/Vader and this is another one on the list. Perfect.
I feel like of obi-wan had mentioned padme he could have run the risk of somehow accidentally revealing to Vader that his children survived. Maybe not with his words but his thoughts could've betrayed him, it is clear that at times obi-wan and Anakin's connection can be so deep that thoughts can reveal themselves to the other. So not bringing up padme may have saved Luke and Leia
This is a great comment. I didn’t think of that but you are so right! Also, I think a lot of these feelings would be felt in the force. Ben could probably reach out and feel Anakin wasn’t coming back no matter what he said.
This actually makes total sense.
Beautifully said
Agree, I do!
What I really wanted in the fight was for it to not cut away to Reva
And I wanted a real camera and not that shaky BS.
I wanted a million dollars.
LMAO
Obi-Wan telling Anakin/Vader Padme’s final words would’ve been incredible! It would’ve made his redemption at the end of Return of the Jedi even more amazing and emotional in my opinion.
that would have been amazing.
I thought the same thing. But then I came to the conclusion that it would somewhat mess with the canon. Vader must not know that she was still alive! Otherwise he knows Palps has been lying to him and he would go crazy on him, instead of sticking around for decades.
If Kenobi pulled that sucker sh!+, he would have been blown apart by a Darth Vader freakout...Last thing a guy fighting another guy wants to hear when attempting to merc the other, is his wife's loving last words....😆🤣😅
👍 No absolutely seriously. Not only losing but oops!! My finger got covered in ghost pepper extract and your eye is exposed you asthmatic prick!! But then he might figure out about the kids.
@@martind.5257 I was thinking the same thing as well and it would’ve been emotional. It’s just that yeah, it would probably conflict with what they did in the comics but even then, it’s not like the comics can’t be retconned or anything.
You raise an interesting point here. My theory on why Obi-Wan didn't try to turn Anakin back in RotS was that he was probably just steeling himself. One thing the Obi-Wan series did a great job is show just how much everything that happened with Anakin broke him, that brokenness happened the minute he saw the footage in the Jedi Temple. In that same moment, the mentor of all Jedi flat out tells him that HE has to take care of Anakin, stop him however he needs to.
He clearly didn't want to kill Anakin, and in the end he couldn't deliver the final blow. That whole fight I imagine Obi-Wan was just doing everything he could to do what he thought he was supposed to do and maybe he felt like reaching out to him more than he did in those moments would make himself to weak to kill him if he had to. Not to mention all the hurt and anger he must have for what Anakin has done. As stalwart as Obi-Wan is, everyone has their limit.
Obi Wan once thought as you did
he stoped him alright. Vader on his knees and this moron just turned and walked away. Imagine the lack of balls you must have. The most dangerous man in the universe. Destroyed planets, millions of species, rain terror left and right, you called him Darth, so he is not anakin anymore to you and you let him live. That is the definition of a B I T C H
Always thought the same, and in that sense i think that's when Obi-Wan truly failed Anakin. Understandable as it may be, i think if Obi-Wan had tried to reach out and not gone there cloathed in Jedi doctrine (as a defense mechanism) Anakin might have actually turned.
I would have actually loved a padme mention from kenobi like this, "what you'd she think" or "think of her!". Hayden is so amazing at portraying silent emption, with no words just expressions. I would have loved to see him think of padme and go from love to sadness to hate, and the irony would be he hates what he's become but the more he hates the more indestructible he is.
I think they chose to NOT mention Padme, because it could've opened alot more trouble then just not having her mentioned!
Like how weird would a conversation of ObiWan and Vader be about Padme when one Dude knows she died of a broken heart and Vader thinks he killed her, but then Obiwan cant really tell Anakin that she survived on Mustafar and how she really died, .... tbh, the conversation woulda been WEEEIRD, because Disney would've had to literally stear arround all those things to avoid any canon breaking right there!
@@NinjaChris77 they clearly didnt care about canon breaking soooo
Have you ever had a relationship that was such a rollercoaster with all kinds of emotional baggage? You try to think of all the right things to say before the confrontation happens, but it rarely turns out the way one plans. Obi-Wan is also hurt by Anakin, not just the other way around, he is just not being a brat about it. He is still just a person, a human dealig with a narcist, and there are limits to even his empathy. I think Obi-Wan's writing, the consistency of his character is perfect, and with that he is probably alone in Star Wars, and I think that's why he is so beloved by fans. He is an exemplar of the jedi, and an all around stoic badass, he is just not the person Anakin needed, but I can't fault him for that.
Agreed!
I would like to see a scene of Vader dreaming of a peaceful life, with Padmé, his childrens, his mother and Obi-wan. And his mom says she's proud of him for becoming a Jedi Master.
Then she gets serious, starts crying and asks what he did. Slowly you can hear the sound of his mechanical breathing increasing, and he wakes up screaming.
I like it.
That’s dark. I wanna see it
That'd be great I really hope they do something like this in the Vader series
Yeah
YAAAAAAAAAA-
You make some amazing points, as always.
I think the biggest thing that Obi-Wan gets way too much credit for is empathy and compassion. Just as Anakin gave in to the darkness, Obi-Wan gave in to structure and regiment. The religion of the Jedi. It hardened his heart even to Anakin.
There was never room for a true conversation when Anakin said his opinion was that the Jedi were evil. It wasn't like he was the only one thinking that. Obi-Wan was so staunch in the religion of the Jedi that he had forsaken the ability to be compassionate and empathetic at that moment.
Maybe some of what made him so cold had to do with his own loss of a loved one, but he always would have rather been right when it came to his relationship with Anakin instead of doing what love does and being more humble towards him. I think that sounds way harsher than I'm meaning it, but humility was not a strong suit of Obi-Wan's even at this time in my opinion.
Obi-Wan is much more like Mace Windu and much less like his own master, Qui-Gon. Qui-Gon loved Obi-Wan like a father but Obi-Wan treated him almost like a means to an end. He didn't fully trust Qui-Gon in my opinion. Was he a great Jedi? Yes. Is he one of my personal favorites of all time? Yes. Am I saying he was devoid of compassion and empathy? No.
But with Anakin, he would have rather been right than have a loving heart-to-heart conversation, even in that critical moment. It's just like we do with our own loved ones a lot of times. Oftentimes, they see the worst side of us when we can put on a face for other people.
That's how I see Obi-Wan and Anakin's relationship. The saber training scene is perfect evidence of that. Obi-Wan couldn't get past the rules and regiment to truly love Anakin the way he should have because he wanted Anakin to follow suit, and he wouldn't.
Just my opinion! And sorry for such a long post
Anakin needed Obi-Wan to be a fatherly figure or true brotherly figure. Instead, he got a master. In my opinion, that makes the way Anakin calls him "master" so sarcastically now as Vader so much more meaningful.
Obi-Wan said Anakin was his brother, but he didn't exemplify it. He wanted Anakin to fall in line instead of doing what Qui-Gon really wanted. Qui-Gon's "I will do what I must, Obi-Wan" mentality was the one thing he couldn't pass down to his apprentice in time.
@@Sayre_Bedinger Just curious - have you read the novelization of RotS? If not, there are a few scenes in there that do show Obi-Wan doubting himself and the choices made by the council in regards to how they used Anakin, and I wished they included those in the movie.
"It's over Obi Wan, when I left you, you had the highround and I was but underestimated, now I *AM* the Highround."
Here's the issue with Obi-Wan bringing up Padme: it's painful for him too, and you saw that the first time Leia reminded him of her (I think Ep 3 of the show).
Padme was his friend for many years, and they respected each other.
He was the one to tell her the truth about what Anakin had become.
He snuck on to her ship to go to Mustafar.
He dismembered her husband and father of her kids to the point where he couldn't even answer her question "is Anakin alright?"
He received her last words as she died.
Obi-Wan's mind has to be clear to fight; whereas Vader seeks pain and anger to fuel his self-hatred and tap into the dark side, Obi-Wan must clear his mind to be at one with the Force. Bringing up those feelings would not help him in the moment, although I can understand why he could have done this after the fight was over.
I agree. Well he also said “ I’m sorry anakin” for everything at the end. So he’s basically saying sorry for your mom dying sorry for padme dying. Basically everything
I understand what you mean. I was thinking Kenobi mentioning Padme’s last words to Kenobi where she believed that there was good in Anakin. Obviously, it needs to fail because it would remind him of his failure to save her, doing the bad things he did to save her, and then the damage to his body after he turned to the dark side. This would’ve convinced Kenobi even more that there’s nothing that he could do to redeem Anakin.
He could've relayed Padmé's last words, "there's still good in him"
@@lordvader_0668 Didn't think of including Padme in that before you said it, but it makes a lot of sense.
I think it would of been cool if Anakin had some flashbacks of remembering the happy times with Padme in the show, would of made Anakin's story even more emotional than it already was
I really loved that this show showed us Anakin did care for his master. Comforting him, it was not your fault. I did this on myself.
I didn't really read it as comforting him. I saw it was him not wanting Obi-Wan's pity.
it was more of the fact that he was saying that he wasn't obi wans failure and not a failure in general
@@porcu12345 that and not to be considered a "failure", but both readings can coexist.
Another moment I wish had happened was when he first met with Owen I was waiting for the "haven't you killed enough Skywalker's?" Line. It was one of my favorite lines in the comics and it felt like they were dancing around the line without actually saying it.
Yessss I loved that line. They did allude to it in what I thought was a smart way, though.
Man I agree on your point about Obi-Wan not trying hard enough to tap into Anakin's light side in Revenge of the Sith. I always thought it was so weird how he didn't try to reason more with Anakin. I'm a big believer in show don't tell but more dialogue in the final fight for Kenobi could have been really special. Especially if it included Padme or Qui-Gon like you mentioned. Great video thank you for the content as always!
I mean Anakin did just murder all the jedi including younglings to the point where he doesnt know if any Jedi besides him and yoda are left, the his first view of Anakin was him choking Padame. If we put this into real world i think if there was a evil prick who shot up a school killing everyone then he is found assaulting his wife, most ppl wouldnt stop to reason with them at that point i think
I think actually there's a lot of training in the Jedi order that there is no return from the dark side. And remember obi wan was raised by the order as was norm.
Sure, he was trained by Qui-gon but not exclusively.
I thought it was a missed opportunity between Vader and Kenobi. I’ve said that before. The dialogue could have been extended to include a more sincere approach when Anakin appeared briefly. It was touching nonetheless that he let his old master off of the hook. The scene reminded me of when Ahsoka briefly brought Anakin back.
George would be very proud of the understanding you have of these characters, and I love listening to you talk about em
I was talking to my brother about this just after the episode. True dialogue between them would have really taken the duel to newer levels, and in my opinion would have deepened the sadness surrounding Vader. Padme should have been mentioned and even flashbacked.
Yup thats what I was thinking, padme was no where to be seen lol
Sith Temple lol
@@11bluekitkats or unintentionally revealing to Vader that Anakin's child didn't die with Padme and that there were, in fact, two of them and who they were; putting them both at risk, the exact opposite of what he was tasked with doing. Not even opening up that possibility was a good call.
6:20 definitively I didn’t realize that fact actually. Anakin was loved and he went mad not knowing how much he was loved. Which is really sad if you think about it.
And Obi-Wan was a lot in the guilt process in this show and not enough trying to really understand what he actually did wrong. And that should be imo the main focus of season 2 with Qui-Gon: Obi-Wan discussing it and how he could train Luke better
Good point.
I think the problem is that the current writers at Lucasfilm don't seem to understand this issue all that much. They tend to think too strictly in a black and white, good and evil sort of way and don't see how a lot of things could only happen due to the failures of the Jedi. In Book of Boba Fett, we see Luke seemingly make the same mistakes with Grogu, holding on to the very same no attachment ideology we've seen before (despite only his attachment to his father allowed him to save Vader), and definitely make the same mistake with Ben Solo. It's kinda frustrating, since EU Luke specifically learned from these mistakes and turned his new order into something different.
I think it would have been a great moment, like you said, where Kenobi tries to turn Anakin one last time, would have loved if he had of even referenced Padme's last words "there is still good in him" and tried to lure him back to the light that way. But ultimately, his anger and sorrow would overcome him and then we would see the rage.
Agreed entirely. Obi-Wan had to expect this was his final confrontation with Anakin, he had to know if there was good left in him, Padme is how. "Just before she died, Padme asked me, 'tell Anakin I know there is good in him. I know." Before snapping in rage Anakin would be haunted by that, and in that moment, Obi-Wan would know there is good left, and that's why he doesn't kill Anakin. The midichlorians are also likely telling him Anakin is still the chosen one don't kill him. Can also pay it off with Reva. Obi-Wan says we're both free, she can ask, "so you are at peace with Anakin." "Yes." That would best explain why Obi-Wan doesn't kill Vader, and as you point out, add layers to the show, the Obi-Wan - Anakin relationship, and the films.
I always wished we’d seen communication between Vader and Qui-Gon. Anakin lost what would have been his father figure and we never really saw closure there. Vader being reminded of the hope he felt when Qui-Gon committed to training him as a boy could have been an emotionally satisfying moment.
I always thought Palpatine replaced Qui gon as a father figure
I would have loved some dialogue about Padme. She's literally why he turned in the first place so its criminal that she isn't mentioned more.
padme was more like the tip of the iceberg, not why he turned in the first place
Padme is a big reason why but also Ashoka leaving the Jedi played a part in his downfall. They could of mentioned them both
@@brendanallen5731 Ahsoka isnt as important as Padme...
@@XxAzureNekoxX thats just not necessarily true and has nothing to do with the fact that they both could of been mentioned…
@@brendanallen5731 Padme is his wife. Ashoka Fans really are disrespectful thinking she’s nearly as important to him as THE MOTHER OF HIS CHILDREN. Lol get out of here.
Completely agree with you dude. I wish Obi would’ve tried harder to convince Vader this one instance to turn back, then have Vader/Anakin struggle for a bit before Vader takes over.
I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT!!! That would have been such a great addition to that scene! It would have really added even more depth to some of the scenes on the films! ABSOLUTELY GREAT POINT!! And without trying to sound like a suck up, i really like getting in on these.Theory, im 53 and grew up with Star Wars and then shared it with my son as he grew up with the prequels and clone wars that we shared together. So i just wanted to say THIS is what Star Wars is and was ! Back in the 70s we'd play Star Wars after school and have these talks about what we thought would happen next. And of course had to wait 3 years to find out each time. Then as i got older we'd have these kind of talks even through the "dark times" between the OT and the ST before the EU came about. Even strangers hearing out conversations and it was just a great sense of Star Wars community. And you have helped bring this back! To me disney really did play a part in division with fans. And this feels great. I love listening and reading the comments and feel those feelings from back when it was all fresh. Thanks my man and to all you in the comments with this passion!!! (Plus "well she married him" and " nosleepforme!" are effin hilarious!😂)
Really interesting perspective, not just on the scene from the Kenobi show but overall about Obi and Ani's relationship and the events that lead to his fall. I'm all there for the tragedy its a great story, but would love to see a 'what-if' either live action or animated of Anakin being redeemed after his ROTS duel with Obi Wan, trying to overturn what he set in motion and come to terms with his crimes. I know you've done some vids on the idea , its a fascinating concept.
Padme's final word was: "There is still good in him". They should have go with it, Obi should have mention this, maybe with some sort of disbelief to Vader. It would tied perfectly to the Episode 6 "Once ObiWan thoughts as you do line" I cant see why they didnt included this at least one of their 2 new fights.
AMEN!!!! I WAS SAYING THAT WHEN WE WERE WATCHING THE EPISODE!!! Obi-Wan should have said something like, “She believed there was good in you. Till her dying breath she believed there was still good in you.” And then after he was he was sorry he should have added, “I believe there’s good in you, Anakin, just as she did.”
Yep I was hoping for a mention to his Mom, Ashoka and Padme tbh
Wouldve made the scene much more powerful
That scene broke my heart man.
I would have loved to have a scene where Vader imagines it playing out differently. What would it have been like if he had done the right thing. Maybe he would have been made a master, maybe Ashoka would have returned to the order. I often think that Vader spent a lot of time in private imagining his life with Padme and their child/children had they survived. And because of that I think they caused him a lot of grief which turned into misery, followed by rage that he had cost himself so much. In the end, I think Vader knew that he had only himself to blame and because of that he purposely tortures himself with a “what if” scenario to keep himself tethered to the dark side.
I Loved this moment Amazing Acting by Hayden and Ewan, I can only imagine what that would look like if that name Padme would have been brought up Happy as hell with it all but Yes would have been cool to see, Awesome video General Theory
I think he just felt he was in no position to attempt turning Vader. It’s like you doing heavy bad crap to someone, they turn to doing drugs and hatred, and you try to tell them to “be good” or crap.
Nail on the head, I think if Kenobi did that it would have driven him further in the dark
This video made me realize something. You're talking about how Obi Wan didn't really try to bring Anakin back in either duel. Tbh knowing how Obi Wan has always been and knowing that he follows the Jedi code to the T, it makes sense.
Obi Wan is said to be what the perfect jedi should be. And what does Obi Wan always preach? "Do not let emotions cloud your judgment." He preached it to Anakin, he preached it to himself, he preached it to Bo Katan in S7 of TCW. He preached it so much that I feel stupid it went over my head. Obi Wan and the Jedi code have always been about letting go of those who died and not forming strong attachments. The guy didn't marry Satine because of this code.
He prolly didn't try either duel because in both he had to remember his duty. His duty as a jedi, and his duty to Luke and Leia.
I wholeheartedly believe he wanted to try, and I think that scene is suppose to show us that through his facial expressions. But it makes sense why he didn't because of that, and the fact that if he did it'd go against everything he's been taught. Obi Wan may be the perfect Jedi, but the Jedi have a lot of flaws, so it's only natural that he does too. Can't believe I didn't realize this till now, but I think that's beautiful writing.
It hard to believe he wouldn't, but in the Star Wars universe I think it makes complete sense. Jedi are not normal human beings like us. They follow a strict code, so we can't expect them to make the same emotional decisions we do. I think that's poetic and honors what Star Wars is
Kenobi: I’m sorry for all of it.
Vader: It’s not you, it’s me.
I think you could argue that the omission of Padme during their conflict was perhaps tactically done or at the very least an old habit. Obi-Wan had just lived through ten years of fearing the mere mention of the name Luke and Vader seemingly is under the impression that the children died with their mother. I know we're mainly discussing Padme here, but Obi-Wan was perhaps trying to ignore any and all reference to her, hoping not to accidently reveal to much information to Vader, so as to protect the children.
I agree. I wish he would have mentioned Padme maybe in the beginning before the fight took place. Obi-wan would try to reach out to the good in him. Obi-Wan would try to make him come to his senses and then mention padme and what she would think of what he had become. Of course Vader would become enraged ...just a thought
I've been subbed for 5 years now. Since before last jedi. And I think you are contributing to the way fans are so judgemental nature. It was an awesome way to allow these 2 characters have screen time together when we all thought it could become too fan film-esque. But what it did do was made this back and forth work with what comes after. In my opinion this is the only way it could've worked. Theory, please stop trying to undermine what's been done. Or get a job as a writer and make every hater eat their words.
He's not trying to undermine anything. This was just a suggestion.
Anakin & Obi-Wan: *Battling on a literal Lava Ocean*
Obi Wan: "Let's talk about our feelings"
A great line would be something like “What would Ahsoka think, or your mother…or Padme”. To which Vader responds by throwing a rock at Obi Wan or force chocking him or something, while his Imperial March theme plays (as in the end bit that plays when Anakin/ Vader does something aggressive).
I was thinking that Kenobi tells Vader about Padme’s last words to Kenobi where she believed that there was still good in Anakin. It would’ve been very emotional to see Kenobi try to use those words on Vader as one last attempt to redeem Anakin and how Vader would react. Of course, in the end, Vader refuses because it would just remind Vader of not only the state that he’s in but also his failure to save her. This would then match up with Vader telling Luke that quote in ROTJ.
As soon as Vader asked Kenobi if he came to destroy him, there was a huge opportunity for Kenobi to talk to Vader! It seemed like Anakin was coming through with a little vulnerability when he asked that. But then Kenobi takes out his saber and says I'll do what I must 🤦🏼♂️.
Obi-Wan wasn't sent to talk to Anakin, Yoda sent him to KILL Anakin
@@Tint_Guy yeah in ROTS.. And he didn't kill Anakin because he couldn't bring himself to finish him off. Just because Yoda sent Kenobi to kill Anakin doesn't mean he wasn't conflicted about doing so, which he clearly was because he didn't. He even told Yoda to send him to kill the emperor because he couldn't kill Anakin. Anyway I'm talking about the last episode of Kenobi.
I really liked that they had Obi Wan say "then my friend is truly dead." That adds more weight to when Luke said "then my father is truly dead" in ROTJ because he is using the same words that his old master once did so it probably reminded Vader of this encounter.
Thanks for Commenting....DM👆👆 to Acknowledge your Prize 🎁.
I totally agree, I also wish they had included this. Before ROTS they were so close, they were not just friends or allies, but brothers. I also thought this was missing, a real proper attempt to try and bring back Anakin. I also wish they had mentioned Padmé or heck maybe even Ahsoka. I hope this is something we get to see in season 2. But if they don't have another encounter again this fight does set things up for a New Hope.
This fight and their dialogue was fantastic. But I also think that it could have been so much better, if they had just included these few things like for example mentioned Padmé.
It makes it even more tragic what happened to Anakin. Sometimes I still can’t believe what he became when I see Revenge of the Sith. How could he become a killing machine in such a short time.
You have to watch the show "the clone wars" to fully understand his fall. He doesnt become like that "in a short time".
Have you seen the Clone Wars series? 7 seasons of development for Anakin. Showing his slow fall to the dark side.
@@anciauxadrien4286 Of course I’ve seen clone wars 😂
@@moritz1997me I met a lot of SW "fans" who hadn't seen it. Great then 😁
Completely agree. A true friend/brother/mentor would have damn near died attempting to save his pal. I expected Kenobi to embrace him, only to be near fatally betrayed...Kenobi walked away perfectly intact...
I agree, there could have been more dialog like you say Theory.
Also showing from Anakin's perspective his own flashbacks of Padme when Obi-wan mentions her.
I liked how they tied in Obi-wan saying "Then my friend is truly dead." like when Luke said, Then my father's truly dead."
Also another missed opportunity was when Vader is standing over Obi-wan in the pit, he should have mocked him about the high ground like, "Who has the high ground now, master?"
Thanks for the video, Theory. New sub, but I've been going through your videos like crazy. You're a really cool dude. I think the dialog you suggest would've been perfect. I think the idea of saying it and then Vader going crazy and then breaking the ground and such would've been a nice addition.
Vader becoming more powerful the angrier he gets means that while fighting kenobi, who is the person Vader hates the most in the entire galaxy, he was the most powerful version of himself we have ever seen, certainly in live action, and thus the fact that obi wan flat out beats him is an incredible testament to kenobi’s power which I think is in large part underestimated by most fans.
Yes I get annoyed with the narrative that OBW was some kind of weak Jedi, he was clearly the one of the most capable. Easily a match for Anakin
Vader is definitely not at his strongest, not taking away from kenobis feat but in comparison to some of the crap Vader did in the comics this wasn’t anything and if Vaders sith eyes are waning at the end of the fight I highly doubt he’s at his height
I thought about the padme thing as well. My conclusion was that obi-wan avoided bringing it up to avoid revealing Luke and Leia.
This is a really interesting point of view. Purging that from his mind to avoid his feelings betraying him. Anakin would be so in tune with his Master's feelings he'd be able to see that for sure.
Honestly that was my conclusion too because as far as Anakin/Vader is concerned his children died with Padme
I think that entire 'switching' is a result of being a Force sensitive. The Force is so powerful that it shifts your consciousness, granting you almost different personality. That's what we see in the last episode - we see Anakin telling Obi Wan 'You didn't kill Anakin' - it's Anakin speaking, his small glimpse of personality, and once he realizes all the anguish he's done - his personality immediately shifts to Vader's - answering 'I did'. That's why Jedi always teach to avoid the Dark side - one can loose his/her personality completely.
I think it is pretty safe to say Obi-Wan knew Padme is a soft spot for him, and with the whole "you turned her against me," he wasn't going to try to bring her back up because it would, like you said, probably do more harm than good and made Vader more angry rather than help turn him back to the light.
*editing, you do acknowledge this toward the end of the video. I agree with the rest, I would've loved for him to talk more about turning him here or in ROTS, but not mentioning Padme was a safe bet
Thing I cant figure out is... when Anakin was killing the tusken raiders, Yoda was meditating and knew "Skywalker is in terrible pain".... didnt Yoda and the rest of the council not ask Anakin what happened??? Did they just leave it and move on?? Feels like they did ifnore it and maybe if they had asked Anakin he might not have slipped to the dark side
Exactly! But that's the issue. The Jedi Council was always dogmatic and proud, they felt full-flagged and were not receptive of other opinions specifically younger ones like Anakin. Their lack of reception was their main flaw, and caused Anakin to leaning towards Palpatine instead of relying on them. Nearly the same thing happed with Ahsoka, but the difference between Anakin and Ahsoka is that Anakin lost so much and had so many things at stake. The death of his mother, fear of losing Padmé which eventually happened. But with Ahsoka it was only hurting her proud and feelings, and she lost her trust in Council. Otherwise she would have turn to the Darkside as well.
I wish they would've opened the series with a scene where you see a sort of "What-if" scenario where Anakin was still Anakin and he was raising his kids with Padme. Only to find out it was just a dream and Obi-Wan wakes up.
I personally would end the scene in a somewhat nightmare scenario where stuff gets all twisted and weird and Obi-Wan suddenly sees burnt Anakin telling him that he failed us all.
Great video, Star Wars Theory; genius thoughts!
Your desire for Obi Wan to ask Anakin more questions about "why" and to try reaching out to Ani with a little more understanding.... this IS the tragedy of the Jedi, imo. The Jedi are good; but they are ignorant when it comes to personal emotion & love. Obi and Yoda are, for the first time, JUST beginning to grasp the importance of personal love at the end of ROTS. Obi is not simply not equipped to pursue the depth of conversation that you (and I) want him to have with Ani; while frustrating to us, I think ROTS and ep.6 got that part right.
When Ani calls the Jedi "evil", Obi assumes that statement to be evidence of Ani's "lostness" and brainwashing by the Sith; he doesn't get that the "evil" for Ani was revealed years ago, when the Jedi proved to be not only woefully ignorant about love (e.g. the bond between a mother & son), but even FORBIDDING the discussion of it; the thing that matters most! They were destroying Ani's heart, and their code justified it. Ani was wrong and deceived about many things, but not about that... But, the great thing about Star Wars... the same thing that drove Ani to destroy the Jedi also drove him to destroy the Sith; cuz Palpy didn't understand love either (e.g. the bond between a father & son)... ⚖️
I see where you’re going… and I agree with your line of thinking… to go even further it would have been super powerful if Ben got through to him and for a moment or 2 you see anakin emerge, more fully .. maybe he just whimpers the word “ master” in a pleading way, as to cry to obi wan for help… and slowly then the Vader persona returns.. im remembering and referencing Luke and Vader talking in the base after Luke surrenders on Endor.. Vader completely drops the anger facade and even calls him son…
I'd love to hear what the director had in mind for this scene. I love the way it turned out, but I suspect that it was serendipity that made it gel so well. For one thing, I don't think they meant for the perceived double meaning of alleviating Obi Wan's guilt while Vader takes credit for killing Anakin. It is conflicting motivations and I think the true intent in those lines was simply to tie into the original trilogy where it is said that Vader killed Luke's father. Second, when Vader says "...just like I will DESTROY you!" His emphasis on "destroy" rather than "I" indicates that Hayden didn't understand his character's motivation in the previous lines of dialogue. Vader reveals that it was in fact "I" who destroyed Anakin, so it should be emphasized "I" who is going to destroy Obi Wan. The scene came together well, but there is so much missed opportunity throughout the rest of the show, that I don't have confidence that the scene was intentionally constructed the way it has been received; rather, I think it is the result of a happy accident.
I think the destroy line is meant to speak to Vader's current mindset. This show itself showed that Vader didn't want to simply kill Kenobi, he wanted to bring him down to the same rock bottom as himself. It's not just about life and death for him, it's about his entire sense of self and he wishes to inflict that same level of misery. The Reva fight also demonstrates that it's not enough for him to just win, he wanted to embarrass her.
"I'm s..orry Anaki.n.......😢........for a.ll of it..."
Aw man
I definitely agree on this. I think the duel between Vader and Obi-Wan in the last episode was emotionally flat or, at least, withdrawn. As you said, Obi-Wan could have brought up Padmé, the love of Anakin's life, and Qui-Gonn. At the end "The phantom menace", in fact, during Qui-Gonn's funeral, Anakin had asked Obi-Wan what will happen to him now that Qui-Gonn is dead and Obi-Wan had "promised" to train him and that will become a Jedi. So Obi-Wan did fail Anakin, as a Master and, most important, as a friend, not being there when he would have needed him the most, not bending the rules of the Jedi order for him. So, all in all, I would have loved to see a situation in which, for instance, Obi-Wan is having and advantage over Vader, he pauses and reaches out to Anakin about Padmé and Qui-Gonn and their friendship. Anakin pauses too, he is touched and visibly conflicted (and here it would have been so cool to see his eyes changing from blue to yellow), but then the Dark side prevails and he goes back attacking Obi-Wan and he gets the high ground. Right when he's about to finish off his former Master, though, there's still too much good in him and he realizes he just can't do it. Obi-Wan, who thinks "his friend is really dead", jumps back to his feet, fights back at Vader and defeats him and the duel ends just like we saw in the actual episode. I think that at the moment it really looks like Obi-Wan wins because Vader is just not good enough and I didn't get the feeling Vader loses because he is conflicted at all.
Really enjoying the videos you’ve made since the show finished
Thing is there is 49 years of things that people have thoughts of that they could've said, I feel w cinematic the point is its summing up all the possibilities while still looking epic. So their brief dialogue is summing up how a long version would've gone. The more I rematch the more it makes sense , for example Vader is wanting to over come Anakin by essentially using anger as he's too far gone , like a depressed goth kid saying fuck this lool
Theory, I hear what you are saying 100%. I agree. From my own personal experiences it's hard to say what's needed in an argument/fight. Hind sights always 20/20.
Nice video.
My mate and myself had this exact conversation... he said I wish he mentioned Padme. I truly believe why he didn't was because Padme was the reason he went down this route. I feel like bringing up Padme would have resulted in more rage and blurring him even more. Like you said, would have sent him into a blinding rage. Result in Kenobi losing the battle. I reckon he would have gone down that conversation path if after "I'm sorry anakin".... he reacted with a breakdown or "Obi wan help me" or something like that. Just my thought
I love the work you do! Keep it up!
Hearing your breakdown reminds me that at its core, the Jedi are really a cult. Even though they are supposed to be there for the betterment of the galaxy, they’re extremely controlling of their members. They also practice a lot of the same tactics as cults do (isolate you from your family, keep company primarily with other members, etc.)
EXACTLY
i was crying my eyes out during that scene, that's all I know
I think we could've gotten a little more in this scene of all the facets you talked about. Anytime there's a missed opportunity to flesh things out, we will always have these "what if" discussions.
I wish there was dialogue about Padme. Like a line that about what she would have thought about Vader’s actions and then have Vader lose it and start going ape on Kenobi. Then, his anger would cause him to slip and then that how Kenobi makes the last few strikes like in the show
True, that would have been cool to see.
You didn’t even watch an entire minute 😂
@@darthbarf i comment something random then edit it after watching a significant amount of the vid
You are the best
This coulda been a really dope moment of Obi-Wan realizing he should have been more empathetic towards Anakin on Mustafar, and could have apologized for that by saying he was wrong when he said, "You we're my brother, I loved you" and what he really meant and means now is "You're still my brother, even in the state you're in now, even in all the pain you've caused others. I still love you."
This is the problem of Obi-Wan, he lacks empathy and compassion like Qui-Gon and Luke in ROTJ. While I think Vader was too far gone now for it to work, it could have opened up more of his emotions for cool dialogue, and have Obi-Wan regret not telling him that the first time on Mustafar, since then it wouldn't have been too late.
Ahsoka could have done the same in Rebels when they fought as well and I think she would have been much more impactful in giving Anakin love than Kenobi doing so. The last time he received that love was from Padme, so getting it from Ahsoka, effectively his daughter, I think could have done the trick and Vader could have responded like he did to Luke, "It's too late for me now".
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Anakin and Obi Wan talking in one-liners is my biggest pet peeve.
Dude you should do a reaction to this show called Bad Batch. Season 2 got announced and you should definitely react to the trailer! It's wild and I think you'll love it!
We love Kenobi
You make a great point man about how the order didn’t help Anakin at all when it came to his emotional and mental issues. Dealing with his mother and the dreams of Padme. It always reminds me how Qui-Gon was such a fan favorite because he didn’t always believe the teachings of the order to always be right. They were too dogmatic to the core. Which is why he simply just trusted in the force to deal with things and saw things from both perspective. And I know most fans d didn’t like the sequels but Yoda says this as well to Luke in episode 8 which I thought was a powerful scene essentially telling Luke and I’m paraphrasing “Hey stop depending so much on this idea of feelings leading to the dark side who cares about those old jedi texts lol” The light and dark it does not matter. The only thing that matters is what you do with those emotions. How to harness and guide them I to a more positive way and not let them burden you. Hence if they just let go of sticking to there stubborn ways things might have been different especially for Anakin.
Would’ve loved this in the first fight! remember padme would be alive if kenobi didn’t bring her to mustafar. kenobi mentioning her could have been the trigger for vader to burn him.
My gripe with the main fight is the way it ended, he should have tried to kill him at the end instead of walking away… I know people don’t like the sequels (myself included) but if kenobi tried to finish the job and vader used the force to split the ground in half to get away it would be a nice foreshadowing of episode 7 & would show vaders still powerful eneugh to survive kenobi’s best attempt… vader lost the fight, learned a lesson in the process but was still too strong for kenobi to truly defeat? and that way luke is still the only one powerful eneugh to beat him because he pinned him down at the edge of his saber..there was no escape against luke. the way they’ve done it.. now the only reason vader lives is because kenobi lets him:/ that disappoints me but still, it’s my favourite post Lucas Star Wars yet.
Keep up the excellent work and may the force be with you always
This is EXACTLY what I've been saying (minus the Padame part which would've been good too). The absence of Kenobi trying to bring Anakin back from the Dark Side one last time almost decanonizes Vader's line to Luke when he said " Obi-Wan once thought as you do " in ROTJ.
Now we're left wondering when that happened. These are the only times they met after ROTS and in neither encounter did Ben try to save Anakin.
And his last line to Anakin saying " Goodbye Darth " was absolute and final. If Disney tried to rework it to have them meet again just for Ben to attempt to save Vader one final time it would completely undermine their last encounter and the words they exchanged in Kenobi.
Disney/LF and Kennedy at their best again.
That would've definitely been a good choice for connective dialog to try and get Vader to turn, would've been nice to have that extra bit of connective tissue there. But yeah, I think mentioning Padme, Qui-Gon, or hell, even his mother....prolly would've put Vader in nuclear meltdown mode.
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I agree with your view, the way it al went down there should be room for Obi Wan and Anakin to at least have some sort of constructive conversation. There really is no reason for Anakin to hate Obi Wan this much in ROTS. But that's why I feel that George should have wrote it in such a way that this fight was unavoidable, something was broken and there was no going back.
They could have still have the conversation now since 10 years had past and Obi Wan might have a little hope that things would/could be a bit different now or at least he wanted to talk to his friend one more time
@Thisis Gettinboring Remember that it was because they killed his mother? What did Obi Wan ever do to Anakin that makes him want to murder him? And if so then why wasn't there a way more rocky relationship than they had.
Why does Anakin go from I sure would like to kill you, Sideous to What have I done to Fuck the Jedi order and I will kill you all within the span of a few hours.
It is all way too rushed and doesn't really make sense. The only reason why it is plausible, at least, is because if you look at the entire script and what they added (CLone Wars) it would make sense if they didn't delete some stuff and would have allowed more time for the arch to develop and get to where it ultimately got.
@Thisis Gettinboring I thought you were talking about tuskans in AotC.
But if you mean the Jedi Temple, yeah that's exactly my point. It was all too much based on actual events we have seen. Anakin goes from being frustrated that he isnt being accepted to wanting to kill everything and everyone that wnts anything to do with the Jedi. But he has such a problem wiith killing Sidious? Let's face it, it all doesn't make that much sense. They needed to tell that story differently and based on the whole script it was actually there. Bit of a shame and my big issue with RotS
I feel bad for Vader, he finally got the high ground…and still lost
This episode in particular is just up there with the best of Star Wars.
I feel like, with Kenobi walking away, it’s kind of like… Anakin is done. That he won’t come for him again after this. I mean the crux of the show is Kenobi remembering who he is.
And Anakin/Vader being a little used to being the baddest guy on the Galaxy getting a stern reminder that he can’t beat his old master as he is.
I’d have maybe liked a little more vocal back and forth. But, Kenobi went there to kill him. He was pretty resolute on that. So, maybe he had no words left. And then, gaining the upper hand, again, using Vader’s own “weakness” against him, just pausing for a second and seeing anakin’s eyes through the cracked mask… Hit Kenobi harder than anything Vader did to him.
He realised in that moment that if there’s a chance to tell him how sorry he was… it was that moment.
Kenobi needed some absolution from the guilt of his failure.
And Anakin kinda gave it to him.
And then Kenobi turned and walked away.
So, I think it was a real great emotionally charged fight. And one of the best Star Wars moments in recent years. To me.
I really love your points here Theory.
What I really liked about Obi-wan effectively losing hope in this scene is that it really sets up the title of "A New Hope" because Obi-wan really believed as his Master did that Anakin was the chosen one, but there is a new hope for someone else to bring balance.
Your point about Ep. III and Obi-wan's missed opportunity to connect with Anakin was really insightful too, because we know there *is* still good in Anakin.
Great commentary man.
Omg. Just putting it together now. When anakin is talking about obi wan and the jedi holding him back in AOTC, he’s referencing the taste of absolute power he had from his brush with the dark side when killing the tuskens. He was conflating the dark side power with his own potential! Sounds so obvious if you know what the dark side is and what george meant it to represent. But even more interesting, (more so referred to in legends- and specifically plagueis book) palpatine is pretty clear on this distinction between his potential and power granted by the dark side. He knew you had to be a slave to the dark side and couldnt understand why you wouldnt make that deal with the devil. Maybe that’s why he became the ultimate sith lord lol
Agreed, Disney needs to step up their game with the writing especially with beloved characters such as these, im not a fan of Bad Batch nor Andor, but its the only Star Wars we're getting soon, so hoefully they're awesome, but even if they are, ill still be disappointed at the fact that they can write awesome shows like these but not give the same love to already established characters like Anakin Obi and Boba. Not excited for the next 2 shows but its whatever. Ill take any Star Wars I can get at this point.
It would be good if you elaborated on ‘the writing especially with beloved characters’. Talking about the Kenobi series, the only real problem I have with it is how Leia escapes with them out of the fortress. Apart from that, I couldn’t ask for a better interaction(s) between Vader and Kenobi. It makes perfect sense that Vader would lose, every Jedi he has fought up till now, had probably never faced another lightsaber wielder let alone someone as powerful as Vader. Kenobi is the only Jedi who’d beaten him before, who trained him, knows his every strength+weakness, to the point where in the 2nd half of the fight, Kenobi uses various moves Anakin used on him in the past. Vaders emotions and overconfidence is what also prevents him from ever really beating Kenobi, whether in training or as we see in this show. Also, I thought the scene with the Emperor more or less spelt out why Vader truly lost 🤷🏻♂️😂
When Hayden delivered the "I did" line, he had a terrifying smile, as if he couldn't be happier about it. Maybe Obi-Wan saw that look in his eye and truly felt there was no trace of Anakin left.
"Padme believed there was still good in you...I know now she was mistaken".
@@mr.raslyon6626 That line is amazing. Whatever happened there, happened inside Obi-Wan's head. Maybe he genuinely believed what Vader said. Why even bother saying anything else? Its no use. Thats what I think went through Kenobi's mind. Ewan crushed it, Obi-Wan looked absolutely heartbroken. As for why he let Vader live, I have no idea. Maybe it was too much for him to handle. Executing a defenseless opponent is not exactly the jedi way, still Darth frigging Vader tho...
@@stevencolon1723 He left him there for the same reason he left him on Mustafar (not to mention for continuity). Obi Wan isnt an executioner.
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Vaders like: have you come to destroy me. Kenobi should have maybe you know TRIED. Kind of like, you are my brother please help me fix what you did. You were right the Jedi were in the politics and not in the force, what would Qui Gon think about what you did?
Yes! I agree 100% and have been saying as much, thank you! I was fully expecting this line from Return of the Jedi to be addressed since that line was never put into context and this series was the perfect opportunity, and they never even approached it. Instead of this we got a final duel that was mostly one-liners.
I think it would've been so much better if somewhere in the series we saw Vader in one of his pods, maskless, and he's thinking of Padme...we get a flashback to a tender moment between them, then to what happened between them on Mustafar, then the flashback ends, Vader sheds a tear and screams in rage and anguish, and uses the force to destroy the room like he did when Palpatine told him he killed her. This would've given us so much insight into Vader and not only what fuels him, but how tortured he is.
Then, during that final duel in this series, if like you said Obi Wan asked Vader what she would think and his response is absolute rage, leading to him cracking the earth and burying Obi Wan, it would've been so much more epic...an earned moment of extreme drama, especially of that pod scene I mentioned before had happened.
Then maybe when buried Obi Wan flashed back to Padme saying to him that Anakin still had good in him, that is part of what rejuvenates Obi Wan enough to escape being buried, and when fighting Vader again, he tells Vader what she said and that he believed her, it's not too late to turn back. At the mention of Padme Vader again flies into a rage and that is when Obi Wan breaks his helmet and Vader says he was the one who killed Anakin....maybe even add "Skywalker was weak, he deserved his fate, I am glad I killed him".
It would've made it all so much better, and would've even elevated the original trilogy, don't you think?
Hello there!
General Kenobi
General Kenobi
@@briangoetz2307
Your move!
The only thing I wish the Obi wan vs Vader fight included was that obi wan used the force sand ability to get in Vaders eye
@Thisis Gettinboring Vader when he sees sand gets on him: I hate you!!!
I have to say your video quality has gone up a lot recently in the best way
On point. There were some windows of opportunity for obi wan to just ask Anakin “what’s wrong man? Talk to me”, such as in their duels. I would have LOVED to hear Anakin/Vader open up.
Yes! There should have been a lot more dialog between Vader and Kenobi. HOWEVER, if this series has taught us anything, it's that the writers would fail us the same way Obi-Wan failed Anakin. 💯
Saw your tik tok 10 sec ago😂😂😂
I agree with all your ideas! And I also wish they would have used John William's music in the background!
Well Theory I've gotten aggravated at you for some of your takes lately but I 100% agree with this.
The scene is still great and really heartfelt but I do think I would have liked to hear Obi-Wan say, "It doesn't have to be like this Anakin. Padme' believed in you. She thought only of you in her final moments and believed there is still good in you."
I still love the Kenobi show overall despite any of its flaws. I'm sorry you didn't like Reva but I loved her character and I think she has a lot of potential.
That would've been really cool tbf, the exchange could've ended with "its too late for me, master" echoing ROTJ with Luke, before his eyes change back to yellow and we get the dialogue we saw in the episode. Would've been awesome. Also having anakins dark deeds playing at the same time would've been elite.
Theory on how Vader lost: when Obi-Wan was throwing rocks at him he was exposed to SAND or something like it. And as we all know sand is his one weakness. Don’t you know how rough, course and irritating it is
I've responded to your tik tok post and I practically agree with you on how they should've mentioned Padme or Qui-gon during the fight between them.
I would’ve loved to see some of the things you mentioned. I also would’ve wanted all of this to have the John Williams music scored to it. It could’ve made the whole duel absolutely legendary. The rescored version online shows how much more epic it would’ve been.