Why Obi-Wan Let Vader Live AGAIN After Vowing to End Him - My Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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In episode 6 of the Obi-Wan Kenobi show on Disney plus, we saw Obi-Wan fight Anakin / Vader once again, and this time, let him live again.
I see a lot of discourse regarding him letting Kenobi live, so here's my take on it.
Do you think Obi-Wan should have let him live? Do you think it makes sense?
I think it fits well with A New Hope where Vader tells Obi-Wan '''when I left you I was but the learner...now I am the master.'
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If OWK hadn’t seen Anakin’s face, he’d have probably gone for the kill, but after revealing his face, he realised he wasn’t just fighting Vader, he was fighting Anakin. Ben had a burst of power from the force drawing from emotion, thinking about the twins, think of it like an adrenaline rush, seeing Anakin’s face stopped this rush. Kenobi was in beast mode and then once he realised what was going on, the rush was over.
Exactly ! Well put :)
What you said 😅👌🏾💯
The fact that Vader said ‘Anakin wasn’t your failure. I killed Anakin’ actually implied that Anakin was still there, despite what he literally said. Anakin wanted to relieve him of his guilt. That created sympathy in Obi Wan to where he couldn’t kill him.
You notice he didnt have sith eyes at that point. Anakin knows obi wan through and through and to see his former master literally break down for something that he felt reasonable for.. anakin in a twisted way was just stating facts but at the same time wanted to own his own failure to himself and take it off obi wan.
I don’t think that’s true. Anakin didn’t kill Anakin. Darth Vader killed Anakin. Anakin ceased to exist and became Darth Vader. At least that’s what he was saying, which I don’t think necessarily constitutes him manifesting himself as Anakin. That being said obviously he did not turn all evil.
I think Anakin came through and told Obi Wan that he wasn't his failure. Then Vader took over again
I totally agree, Nirvana. That was so well-written.
I think it was more Dath Vaders pride than anakins sympathy. You didn't kill me I did. It shows Vaders power and growth.
Frodo: “It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill Gollum when he had the chance."
Gandalf: "Pity? It is pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment." -Tolkien
I was thinking this very thing, plus: "My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play in it, for good or evil, before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many."
Obi Wan literally encourages Luke to kill Vader though so using this quote is meaningless lol
"he's more machine than man now"
Good reference
@@mgd8867 because he fails to do it himself.
Having fought competitively I can absolutely confirm the number one factor that decides victory is a fighters mindset. You could train as hard as possible, have all the skill and experience but still lose if you are not focused; it could be something as simple as having an injury that's distracting you or argument with a loved one that you can't stop thinking about. This is why IMO it makes perfect sense Vader lost to Obi Wan, he was too conflicted, power had nothing to do with it.
He lost because Obi-Wan got a friendship power up and attacked his breathing box
Mabye its just me, but it seemed like Vader was pretty resolute in his hatred for Obi-wan. Until OBW beat him and his face was revealed, and he started to be conflicted after OBW started apologising for his mistakes.
@rileymorrisroe6743 Hatred isn't focus though. Hatred is an emotional response, it can make your blows powerful, but powerful blows achieve nothing if you don't have the focus of mind to make them land.
@@jimslater8685 Fair enough
I mean...I think it's philosophical, really. When Obi-Wan spoke to Qui-Gonn and said "It's either him or me." He was referring to Anakin, not Darth Vader. It makes sense with what Obi-Wan tells Luke in ANH. Vader DID betray and murder Anakin and Vader confirmed that at the end of the fight. Vader represents the dark side in Anakin. Promises of great power, everything he craved, etc. But it cost him EVERYTHING. It even cost Anakin his own identity.
from a certain point of view ;)
Bold of you to think that they put that much hidden meaning in a script
Lol, that explains nothing. New star wars fans are just eating this nonsense up and giving it more meaning than it deserves, just because when George was making it, he made these things special.
Deep point!!. Love it
Even if Obi wan meant Anakin instead of Vader, why would Obi-wan want to spare Vader now, but want to kill him throughout the ENTIRE ORIGINAL TRILOGY?
Why would he want to spare Vader in general. To him, Vader is a ruthless murderer consumed by the Dark Side. How does that make him worthy of life compared to Anakin who was his friend?
The whole aspect of the blue light and the red lights interacting on Vader’s face representing his inner conflict is interesting to me. Obi-Wan ends up leaving him, and then Vader is left in only the red light of a Sith saber. In their first duel, Obi-Wan told him “you were mens to bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness!” And yet here Obi-Wan, perhaps the only one who could have brought balance to Anakin, left him in darkness.
Vader staying alive just breaks continuity completely!!! How could they do this!!???!??
Lol sarcasm I love it
They could’ve done it in a better way tho,
@@rhysnichols8608 facts they could have had Vader struggling to fight obiwan after his lil monologue like him crawling all crippled
@@ikevizual6969
They should have had Vader rescued by storm troopers or inquisitors as obi wan is crying trying to kill him
@@rhysnichols8608 nah dude remember he told the grand inquisitor that he’ll face him alone, granted the most likely picked Vader up after the fight
Obi-Wan was ready to kill Vader, not Anakin. That first blow to Vaders helmet could have killed him if the blade was just abit closer
You hit the nail in the head.
lol he just said 'Then my friend is truly dead'.
@@shadytano he was inches from killing vader before his mask got cut open. After seeing anakins face he couldn’t kill him anymore what made him change his mind? Or was he just 100% sure that strike would not kill vader from the start?
@@shadytano this. It’s like people don’t watch the episode at all.
Yes, so let's make his child kill him instead
Honestly, i think it's because he knew vader was never the real threat. The real threat was palps, and obi wan KNEW he did not have the power to stop palpatine. If he killed vader, palps would just find another apprentice. It would be a stop gap measure and nothing more.
And the Jedi do not kill their prisoners. Nobody deserves execution, no matter what their crime...
But all this aside, huge shoutout to Hayden and Ewan, what incredibke acting!
Obi-wan: Iwill do I must
Also obi-wan: Lets Vader live twice
In terms of the children and people being upset that Leia was the reason Obi-Wan "unlocked" his Force connection again...
In doing EVERYTHING for the twins, he is doing it in memory of Anakin - he is tasked with caring for and protecting the children of his Lost Brother.
This also goes back to when Leia ("Luma") & Ben hitchhiked to help - she asked if he was her real father, and he longingly said he wished that was so.
His journey - as the OT - was all centered around Anakin.
The mental gymnastics it requires to make this make sense when in reality it’s just as simple as: Vader is alive in the OT. It’s written poorly, that’s it. Also obi wan not being able to traverse that little slope into the lava bed is a BAD excuse. It’s been established these guys can jump like ten feet into the air.
Theory, throughout Vader/Anakin's story he is conflicted between light and dark whenever he confronted by those Anakin knew and loved. Ten years time does not matter with him. He is beaten twice by Obi Wan. He is technically beaten by Ahsoka and he is defeated by Luke. All three brought out Anakin from within. And that compromised his power as Vader. In-between those events Vader is nearly unstoppable.
I’m pretty sure Ahsoka lost she got his helmet good but if I remember right she only didn’t die because of the weird rift Ezra pulled her through but I agree Vader is weak against anyone that was very close to Anakin
@@logwundawg1970 She was about to sacrifice herself in order to end Vader by knocking out the floor. Vader was about to cut her down as she did this, but it was too late. That's when Ezra yanked her out as you say. She could have continued that fight and likely would have defeated Vader as he was mechanically compromised at that point much like he was against Obi Wan part deux.
Sidenote: I wish they'd had the fight take place at sunset. I hate that all the lightsaber fights in this show happen at night, in the gloom. And by the end of the fight the sun could have fallen, allowing the dialogue scene to play out the same way, with the sabers glowing on Anakin's face.
The memories of, Kenobi, and, Anakin, sparing show the reason. Kenobi says something like "You (Anakin) focus too much on winning. Jedi fight to protect." Obi-Wan didn't need to kill him. The reason he went to fight Vader was to distract the Star Destroyer from capturing/destroying the corellian corvette (it was a corellian corvette, right?), which, Roken, was trying to repair for a jump to hyperspace. After immobilizing, Vader, Obi-Wan, was done. He wouldn't be acting as a Jedi if he were to off, Vader. Moreover do we even know if, Obi-Wan, could have killed, Vader, in that moment? Yes the fight was won by, Kenobi, but how do we know that, Obi-Wan, could have just gone for the killing blow? I mean it's, Darth Vader, even at that weakened state killing him wouldn't have been as easy as stepping on a cock roach. I think the overall series could have been better, but it entertained me and gave me a show to look forward to.
One direction I would've liked to see, Obi-Wan, is Mark Renton meets, Ben Kenobi. That's right, Ben Kenobi, main lining spice, and nodding out to Lou Reed. That right there could have given us 4-5 more episodes, a cameo by Jar Jar interwoven with Spud, Anakin, sprinkled with Begbie, and a very young Solo enterprising contacts as Sickboi. "Star Destroyer spotting". Could've been gold. Just saying 😌 🤷 😏 😉
I think that Obi Wan realized that there had to still be hope for Anakin. Padme in her dying breath tries to warn him, and Qui Gon in his dying breath assured him of it. Obi Wan was unable to see Qui Gon until he showed mercy both to Vader and Reva. I believe that Qui Gon knew that Obi Wan would allow Vader to live so that he could eventually bring balance to the force by throwing Palpatine and helping fuel Luke's journey to become who he became. I think Obi Wan finally realized Qui Gon's wisdom at that moment that Anakin still might bring balance to the force.
I realized something when watching this video. When Obi-Wan defeated Vader you see that he is conflicted and when Ahsoka defeated him you can see that he wasn't.
It’s kinda the same route Tolkien took with Sméagol. Bilbo could have killed him, after all he tried to kill bilbo and was mad and violent. But bilbo showed pity for him. He couldn’t do it. “Some times true courage is knowing when to spare a life not take one”. Also in the flashbacks obviously there was more towards Leah and not Luke because at that point he hadn’t said so much as hello there to Luke. Owen never let him see him so Leah was the first time he got to understand how much like there parents they where.
I was going to comment essentially the same thought concerning the Tolkien parallel . "Pity!? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand! ...Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends." And maybe even to Obi Wan's surprise it was a good thing that he chose not to end Vader in both opportunities - after all how different would have Luke's encounter been with Palpatine?
Just that it doesn't make sense, Gollum is little to no threat to anyone while Vader is the mass murderer leader of a oppressive and corrupt Empire with the capability to destroy civilizations. This is just bad writing.
Obi Wan has a deep knowing that eventually Vadar will turn against the Sith Lord. He most likely always believed and still at that moment that Vadar was chosen one.
Well, it's subtle....but if you look at after chips mask off, just for a moment. He sees Anakin, he knows he's in there, he can't kill his friend.
Well 2 things: one, Vader was quite strong in these 10 years in the dark side, what he did in the village in episode 3 and with Reva in episode 5 but with Obi-Wan, all the history conflicts him, there is so much emotions involved, too much anger clouds too; and second, Obi-wan couldn’t kill him coz looking at Anakin under the mask, and the remorse all made it difficult plus they had to connect to A New Hope.
He didn't leave him alive in Revenge of the Sith as he thought he died from his injuries, and he left Darth alive because Anakin was gone at that point and Obi Wan he felt he was dead already
Sure this isn't the biggest issue ever, but in Return of the Jedi when Luke says "I can't kill my own father", Obi Wan responds with a disappointed look and says "then the Emperor has already won."
With this outcome it really makes Obi Wan look like a hypocrite because he is asking Luke to do something he was unable to do himself when presented the opportunity.
Especially when he was presented the opportunity twice.
Exactly. And Luke is his own blood and almost a kid. I can't understand where he gets the morals to ask him to do that
@@BuscaLoEsencial Because he thought Luke wouldn't feel any emotion towards Vader.
However, luke is loyal to his family even to his unch owen and aunt beru.
@@WildWeavile You mean in ROTJ, when he confirms he is his father, tells Obi-Wan he can't kill him and Obi-Wan still pushes Luke to kill him?
Obi-Wan does come off to be a bit of a dick sometimes throughout the movies and shows.
The idea that Obi-Wan was worried that he would fall into the lava has always bothered me as a cop out by everyone. Obi-Wan could use the force to pull Anakin up off the slope to either end him, or take him with him. I guess the Force doesn't exist for convenient moments.
Makes ZERO sense for Obi Wan to let Vader live at this point. He LITERALLY says the line "Then my friend is truly gone" So why would he have an issue? Equating Dragon Ball Z anime to Star Wars. Star Wars is truly dead. Straight Copium
I think Anakin for a brief moment apologized to Obi Wan by saying he's not his failure -- it was all he could get out before Vader took over.
He kind of answered it himself ; he chose to show mercy… it’s when he finally reaches that state of both power and inner peace that he became ready to see his old Master …
I almost feel like they tapped back into Lucas’ plot of Vader actually being pathetic.. as he was struck down beaten , no longer a threat .. Obi Wan called it .. can’t complain too much ❤️
Why did Obi Wan let him live? Well cause later in the same episode he tells reva that by showing mercy she redeemed her fallen younglings. It’s the Daredevil season 3 thing where even when kingpin tells Matt to kill him he refuses to because he doesn’t get to destroy the kind of person Matt is.
He didn't kill him because he suddenly realized that Vader was in a whole other trilogy of movies after this. Seriously, that's the only explanation and it's pathetic.
Also Obi Wan is responsible for Vader blowing up Alderaan....this entire show is a bastardization of Star Wars
I always believed obi wan wasn’t the one to end Vader, since then Luke would have little to none meaning in the story
Obi-Wan had to preserve his inner light, which required not killing Anakin. His inner light, then, allowed him to see Qui-Gon.
By showing mercy, he honored the memory of his friend. He didn't need to kill Vader, he needed to go protect Anakin's children
So that he could train his son in order to kill Vader later on..... That totally makes sense.
@@lukew6725 except Luke chose not to. Luke was against killing Vader. He used Obi-wan and Yoda's teaching to make his own path.
Sometimes, killing a defeated enemy doesn’t fly, it isn’t the Jedi way.
Finally! To be honest, was expecting this reaction from you a lot earlier but still a relief.
Vader losing to Obi-Wan after 10 years simply does not make any sense at all. 5 years would even also make no sense but much better than 10.
Also Obi-Wan gaining unlimited force powers in 2-3 days is just way too funny. I love the idea of attachment being core for light-side powers, but one simply does not freaking get it like this. And it takes a lot more than this to defeat Vader. Here is why:
1) As much as Obi-Wan has these light-side abilities, Vader has the dark side ones and unlimited anger / hatred
2) Obi-Wan's force potential is way lower than Vader despite him having lost his limbs
3) Vader being conflicted here makes absolutely no sense. A conflicted man simply cannot put his master into fire to just burn him alive 2-3 days ago. What the hell could have been changed in due course?? And 10 freaking years after ROTS?
4) Will take this one step further: Obi-Wan cannot even simply defeat a heavily conflicted Vader. The conflict level of Vader was probably much much more in ROTS and he had limited dark side abilities, yet Obi-Wan only managed to defeat him due to Vader's own mistake. Vader felt more powerful throughout the duel.
One could argue that Vader lost his limbs and now less powerful than ROTS Anakin - absolutely not. Vader was stronger than Anakin, not in terms of full potential but current power level.
Maybe the writers' original idea wasgood, but the first 4 and last 2 episodes have so much disconnection that the end was very bothering. And - actually Obi-Wan and Vader meeting twice in the series was also nonsense. It should have been only once, where we see Vader overpowering Obi-Wan like hell and on the verge of defeat, Obi-Wan should have unlocked these new powers. Then it should have turned into a stalemate or sth., enabling Obi-Wan escape.
The reason I am saying this is that the most logical theory for Obi-Wan not killing Vader here is what SWT explained here - But even this does not make sense. Obi-Wan knows that from this point on, Vader continued spreading terror across the galaxy. If Obi-Wan knew that he could defeat Vader, he would freaking come back to fight once again and end it this time in the 9 year period until ANH.
The writers never understood Star Wars, they just wanted to do something that was enjoyable and made some sense, but completely ignored the full connection between events. I enjoyed watching this but have to consider the series as a whole as non-canon.
I think Obi Wan for the first time in the series fully realizes that it is Anakin behind the mask when he sees anakins face behind the mask. I think that's why he says "Anakin" so surprised. Vader response is "Anakin is gone" - not dead though. It is also a twist what Anakin/Vader says... He says "You didn't kill Anakin Skywalker, I did". Vaders intention is to kill the weak in Anakin while at the same time saying it Anakin releafs Obi Wan from the idea that he has the fault on Anakins destiny.
Obi-Wan and Darth Vader could have killed each other. Obi-Wan's adrenaline rush was gone, Vader was weakened but pain also strenghtens his abilities.
Once Obi-Wan realised there is no saving Anakin, that fight wasn't worth it anymore.
I think the outcome of Obi-Wan winning this fight makes sense, Obi-Wan being the better swordsman and him now being in the right mindset and thus closer to the force itself even though Vader is technically more powerful in the force... When it comes to how they left each other... I've seen similar comments in the thread, but I too think Obi-Wan should've been hesitant to kill Vader after he had beaten him and then either Qui-Gon's voice comes through or Vader and Kenobi get separated by the crumbling rock formation they're standing on, thus forcing Obi-Wan to walk away or something similar so it doesn't force Obi-Wan to just outright walk away after he beat Vader, knowing full well he'll continue to wreck havock in the galaxy.
I just thought it was against the jedi code. When Anakin killed Dooku, he said said he shouldn't have done it because he was an unarmed prisoner and it wasn't the jedi way, so I just interpreted Obi Wan letting Vader live as being against the code to kill someone who can't really fight back in that state.
But killing Maul twice was okay for the Jedi code?
"Let" Vader live?
At the end of Ep III, Obi-Wan thinks he's left Anakin to die and become one with the lava - he is convinced of this until Reva tells him otherwise.
Obi-Wan shut himself off from the Force to hide, as a survivor of Order 66 - he and Vader were not necessarily convinced the other was still alive after these events unfolded.
After Obi-Wan decimated Vader's life support system in Part 6 of this series, he fails to finish him off with a lightsaber blow, but again leaves him to perish.
Obi-Wan tells Reva she's now free... I interpreted this as him believing Vader to be done for all over again.
Symbolically, this is extended as he speaks to Reva about which side of the Force she is truly aligned with, based on her ultimate decisions - he steps back into the role of teacher, and ensures her that she has chosen the path to Light.
His worries for her and both children seem to have faded entirely at the end - if he knew for sure that he had only bought some time for her, himself, and the children, he would not have let his guard down.
(And as others have said, he COULDN'T change the existence of the main character in the OT.)
I liked the last episode of kenobi. It was well done and something that I have been waiting to see since the last Jedi which made me think they would make all the old characters suck. It added to the Obi Wan, Vader dynamic and it shows how Vader was the learner and kenobi was the master last time they fought.
All they had to do was show a 2 second clip of Imperials landing in the background. Maybe the GI sensed how the battle was going. Seeing that Obi-wan decides to leave. the end.
Is it possible that Obe-wan may have thought it was the will of the Force to let Vader live and let him live his own destiny? It's been argued that Anakin turning was the will of the Force. Yes, it took 30 years for him to bring balance to the Force but sometimes things need to get worse before they get good again. So, in the case of Ep6 of Obi-wan, he leaves Vader bested, broken and conflicted knowing that Vader would recover and most likely bring some bad times to the galaxy. But Obi-wan also knew there were two hopes left in the galaxy in Luke and Leia.
Obi Wan not killing Anakin again is terrible. 10 more years of oppression in the galaxy. Obi wan should have being stopped of Killing him
Hey dude Read my comments I wrote here Going into the hole picture
I think Obi Wan just could not bring himself to kill his old friend
I think the explanation for why he let him live in Revenge of the Sith is much simpler he starts to catch fire from head to toe screaming in pain Obi-Wan assumes at that point that the fire will finish him off but turns and walks away because he doesn't want the image of it burned into his brain
I think that Obi Wan got so powerful in the force during the fight that he remembered the real Jedi way, to protect life, not take it. Also obviously as he seen Anakins face and heard his voice too defo playing a factor. I also don't think he truly believes Vader when he says Anakin is truly gone, I think Obi Wan released in that moment there may still be hope 4 Anakin, and he was right of course as we all know.
It's a good thing Kenobi leaves Anakin/Vader (The Chosen One) alive again. The ONLY scenario in which The Emperor dies is when Vader makes that split second decision to save Luke. Palpatine can sense what people are thinking and feeling. This is the only time he is vulnerable. It's similar to how Gollum is shown mercy multiple times and needs to be kept alive until the end.
I might have an unpopular take on this. But I view this as Obi-wan wanted to kill Vader which is why he told Luke to do so in Return of the Jedi. But I think Obi-wan realized during this show and even in this fight that he couldn't kill him because he was not strong enough. Yes Obi-wan at the end of this fight had the advantage. But even as he walks away Vader is still ready and able to go on fighting. Vader knows how to survive and go on even when he is struggling to breath when his suit is damaged. Obi-wan knew Vader could turn the tide of the battle just as he did. The show up to this point has shown us how brutal and strong Vader is. Obi-wan knew if the battle continued he still could lose. I think Obi-wan was also tired both physically and emotionally. He used a lot of energy and force power during those attacks. I view this as more of a stalemate between them. He also knew it was far more important to survive and leave while he is still winning so he can be there for Luke and Leia as it is their destiny to end Vader and his master.
Make sense for him to live for plot points only. If we ignore the fact that Vader is alive in the movies after the series it doesn't make any sense to let him live at all especially knowing he's just going to cause more havoc.
Great analysis. The visual use of the conflict we see was so well done. In the end Ben had to go back for Luke, for that kid was all that mattered. Obi-Wan has the Jedi knowledge and killing Vader in that moment is not the Jedi way.
It was not the will of force for obi wan to take the life of anakin, the chosen one. If he was killed balance would not be restored at the end the ROTJ where vader redeems akakin by destroying palpatine. I also think that this is the only reason Qui Gon Jin appeared to him, he had reconnected with the living force. On the shuttle down obi wan also speaks in absolutes “it either me or him” in the end he left it to the force to decide anakins/ vaders fate .
I think your partially correct. I also think he had to let him live because killing him would have opened the sith apprentice position open.. possibly jeopardizing the safety of the children. This could have been conveyed as a vision of luke/leia as palpatines apprentice.
If Obi Wan won then Palpatine would’ve tried turning him into an apprentice if he had struck Vader down in hatred
I sometimes let my love of Star Wars blind me and I was really excited for Kenobi. The trailer with the prequel music really drew me in..... but for me it was a clear wasted opportunity in many ways.
Obi-Wan was totally prepared to kill Vader until he saw Anakin’s face. At that point, Obi-Wan simply couldn’t bring himself to kill Vader, much like on Mustafar. Additionally, Obi-Wan has defeated Vader in two out of three duels.
again, don't make sense because in episode 4/5/6 Kenobi want Vader dead. He train and invite Luke to kill his father, so he want Vader dead. Kenobi had to lose this confrontation and it would all make a lot more sense. Also because Luke and Leia were presented as the last hope to beat Vader, Vader was unbeaten which is why Kenobi and Yoda were desperate.
Well, in "a certain point of view" one of them actually did die in the end. His friend.
Overall I liked the show a lot… I definitely liked this last episode a lot. For me, it was the best official Star Wars content that I’ve seen since Episode 7 and I liked the Mandelorian. It was great, but could have been better. I really agree with you on everything regarding the fight between Obi Wan and Darth Vader… Vader should have been more powerful and shouldn’t have just let his control panel on his chest get hit multiple times. And by the time 10 years have passed, you think he’d have trained to compensate for this sort of weakness. You think he’d be able to at least put up more of a fight- that’s all I really wanted to see… The whole rock thing was a little much for me- It’s okay that they used the environment to fight each other- but using these rocks shouldn’t have decided the fight either way… And I get that Obi Wan was never gonna be defeated (due to obvious canon reasons) but I still think they could have done a better job explaining why Obi Wan leaves Vader alive… The episode even set up the fact that he felt compelled to face him and he knows that Vader is intensely evil. Since they brought back Ian McDiarmid they could have even had Palpatine come in to save Vader again… I think it would have been amazing to see Palpatine light up a saber once more and would have made it entirely reasonable for Obi Wan to flee until Episode 4, knowing that he could not take on the Master Sith and Apprentice Vader at the same time by himself. And Qui-Gon could have appeared to him at the end to console him and perhaps even to congratulate him on the job that he had done. That would have been poetic and completely justifiable for Obi Wan to retreat back into hiding- knowing that he beat Vader but that he’s not going to be able to beat Vader and Palpatine by himself so he’ll have to wait for future Jedi (such as Luke and/or Leia) to help defeat the empire and ultimately restore balance to the force.
Hi theory, great video!!! I disagree with what you said about vader having to be more composed in this time period. Dont forget he has been looking for kenobi for 10 years and this is the time to end him at last. I mean its like playing a game under a lot of preassure, and It showed on vader being not precise and careful. Like thinking kenobi would die under a pile of rocks. Anyways, love the channel. Greeting all the way from Argentina
He couldn’t do it on mustafar, so why would he be able to now? Anakin was his brother, he loved him. Killing someone you truly love would be an impossible task no matter who you are. Him walking away is very believable.
I hope Disney+ gives us what if? For Starwars fans like see different galaxy and see different sith that died that what if would change it even Qui Gon isn't dead in a different timeline like that would be cool tbh.
I think the reason is he needed him to be around for the 3 movies that are technically after
To me, Obi Wan let him live bc not only did he see these glimmers but he knew if he kills Vader, Palpetine would just find another to replace him and the next might not have this internal conflict that Anakin is having. Making it harder to defeat the empire
He didn't walk down because he might fall in sure. All he needed was a little Force push... He didn't have to go down there. You could affect the finger at him like a fly and pushed him into the lava. What a lot of this really comes down to is keeping the story intact more than anything that makes sense. You can write all sorts of elaborate excuses and reasons why. But there's a million common Sense reasons that have to be ignored including calling Obi-Wan ignorant and so over emotional but he doesn't know what he has to and needs to do. Old yeller is rabid and needs to be put down... The Old yeller can't tyrannically destroy and roll an entire galaxy. As a Jedi master saying he couldn't make that call because of his "feelings" is a cop out. So I get it, but they should have found it better way for him to live a second time after being beaten again so badly.
Great video, Theory. I loved the way Episode 6 ended but I think it goes further to say that Anakin is still alive within Vader, and Kenobi holds onto Padme's last words which is why he can't kill him. I think it goes further then that to say that Anakin is still there but more like a prisoner, taken over by Vader almost entriely, broken and lonely. It isn't until he finds out about Luke being his son that we start to see Anakin coming back a piece at a time until finally Anakin triumps over Vader. If you look at studies with duel personalities, one personality is always the more dominant.
The actress who plays young Leia is so small that she looks likes she's 8 years old (even my 11 year old son refused to believe she was 10, despite that being her actual age), so for as long as I can, in my head canon, I choose to believe that the show took place 8 years after RoTS, not 10. Even just those couple extra years makes it all feel like it fits better.
I don't think that's the case here. I mean, it makes sense, but the way Vader just basically tells him "Anakin's dead and I killed him" just completely changes the way Obi-wan looks at him. He's not looking at Anakin, an old friend and student. He's looking at Vader, a self professed sith who is all that remains. (Well he's not self professed, but the idea is that he viewed him almost with disdain. He called him 'Darth' in such a way like it was an insult, similarly to in ANH.)
So it's not like he pitied him. Why would he? But I have a theory. I watched back and it's not a very strong theory, but it's very plausible. A lot of people forget that the Jedi Code means more than not being attached to pretty young ex-queens. They can't strike an unarmed and helpless man. That's the whole deal of Revenge of the Sith. Anakin decapitating Dooku when he was unarmed, Mace wanting to kill Palpatine then and there.
Now Vader at that moment *was* holding his lightsaber at the time, so technically he wasn't unarmed. He was still barely standing on his own two feet, though. He was wobbling so bad, he was basically helpless. In fact I doubt the lightsaber would've done much. I think Obi-wan just... Followed the code. Saw a weak, unarmed man barely managing to stay standing and just, decides the fight was done and it was time for him to leave. He couldn't kill him, it would break the code. He couldn't capture him, he had no means of doing so. All he could do is leave.
In some regards I think that fight ends with a mutual understanding. Anakin absolved Obi-Wan of his guilt, and was quite impressed with his old Master...but Vader was his new life...The Death of Vader here would have many unknowns, and may have exposed the beginning of the Juices for the burgeoning Rebellion...
I believe it would of been better writing if Vader had to make some sort of retreat to save himself. That would also further fuel his anger over the coming years and just make more sense. It’s just way to convenient for Kenobi to have the chance to kill him again and just walk away.
Another video pointed out that killing Vader wouldn't have made a difference in the galaxy. The inquisotors were still out there doing the same things.
He couldn’t kill him because vader was alive in A new Hope duhhhh.
Probably because neither of them can kill each other. Vader had the chance to kill Obi wan but didn’t take it. He just wanted Obi wan to suffer the same as he did.
Obi Wan didn't see him as a threat and most likely felt the dark side within him when saw Anakins face. The emotions all came through and he knew he couldn't kill him.
The only reason he didn't kill Vader...two words...PLOT ARMOR. The writers could have created a scenario where He couldn't kill him. But that would be too much to expect.
I feel like fighting obi wan this time was vaders first real challenge, every one else he’s fought since he turned hasn’t had nearly as much power as obi wan.
They saw a chance to have a fight between them and make lots of money that way. The reason it doesnt make any sense is because its not an issue. They wanted the battle to happen to make money on it.
I think he let him live cuz he knows Palpatine will just get another apprentice and knows Vader is probably the only one who could kill him. He also prolly thinks Luke is the only one that has a chance of turning him back to do so
The fight makes no sense on any level. It was cool to watch and experience but Obi Wan had the powers of a God basically while Vader suddenly forgot everything. Amazing setpiece but weak story.
Well he had to let him live of course because Vader is obviously alive in the later days of the empire. Maybe if they wrote it to where Obi One thought he killed him but Vader survived again. But that dont really make since either. So maybe Obi One does actualy kill him this time but Palpatine brings him back to life. This would only serve to grown the anger and hate that controls Vader.
@Starwarstheory Do you think there was anyway for Vader to go behind Sidious and find somewhere where he could have build a better a suit? Surely he had the power to do it without the the Emperor knowing.
he loved him like a SON, not a brother.... THAT'S why he showed him pity and let him live. imo
It’s hard seeing Vader not be broken as hell in the show he seemed a little underwhelming. Like seeing him in fallen order he is an absolute monster. He should have been far out of kenobis league. Just my opinion. Show went pretty hard regardless.
Obi-Wan sees the conflict in Vader and decides that its better to have a conflicted Vader; than kill him and let Palpatine find some new Apprentice. The conflict in Vader is the key to Luke succeeding in defeating Sidious and overthrowing the empire.
Oh contraire, im of the belief Vader was the one who spared Obi-Wan
Both on Mapuzo letting him go and somehow knowing Obi Wan wasn't done for when be buried him under the rocks
I still feel Vader was willing to keep fighting after Obi Wan slashed him, willing to fight to the death since he was so miserable, while Obi Wan quit while he was ahead to get back to Leia
“Then the emperor has already one. You were our only hope” if obi wan beat Vader why feel the need to train Luke
I also believe obi wan thought for sure that anakin was dead after the duel in rots. He had only one arm left and was burned alive
Isn't it obvious, if he kills Vader here, it breaks Cannon, Because how could he die here, and still be in 4 5 and 6
Perhaps Obi Wan let Vader live because he knew Sidious would get another apprentice and it's better for Sidious to be stuck with an apprentice that Obi Wan knows he can beat than for Sidious to get a new apprentice that Obi Wan may not be able to beat.
Obi Wan didn't kill Anakin because when he's underneath those boulders and thinks about Luke and Leia, he doesn't just become get his force powers back, he becomes a Jedi again. Jedi don't kill, it's not the Jedi way. He doesn't even kill Vader in episode 4. Luke doesn't kill Vader in episode 6. Killing is NOT the jedi way, that's wht Obi-Wan has such a problem with anakin in The Clone Wars everytime Anakin takes a life of a separatist (non droid). Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, like if it's their life or his, just killing an unarmed opponent who's no longer able to defend themselves is strictly prohibited. Obi-Wan didn't just get his force powers back, he became a jedi again. Him not killing Vader proved that. I think the way that scene went down spoke volumes more than just the face value of how ppl interpreted it.
Emotionally yes it makes sense. Logically knowing that Vader is going to do bad things no. But I can accept it as a fan cuz its emotional for Obi Wan and I mean in real life sometimes it's hard to do the right thing. If theres a season 2 they need to have him talk to Qui gon about it. But i also feel like they didnt show obi wan trying to save anakin cuz vader tells Luke in 6 "obi wan once thought as you do." And so far he really hasn't
Going in I thought we were gonna see obi won nearly killing Vader then have palpating swoop in to save him and obi won barely escaping
That would have been very cool !!!
3:05 Now quick question.. Couldn't Obi-Wan just use the force to get him out of there? Lift him up a little and move him close to where he was, i mean.. if Anakin truly wanted to be saved by Obi-Wan there, i doubt he would've done something against it. And if Obi-Wan wanted to save him, again, he could've used the force to get him out of there quickly. Pretty sure he would've had enough time to run away with him before the Emperor arrived. Or that's what i think.. not so sure, maybe i'm wrong, or i'm wrong. Just a thought.
Would have been cool if Obi Wan was about to finish Vader, then hears Qui Gon say, "Obi Wan!...No...He is the Chosen one" Almost as if he knew that Anikan would eventually win the conflict and finish off Darth Sidious. And please don't tell me that Episode 9 nonsense about The Emperor somehow came back. Thoughts?
I think Obi Wan let him live because Vader/ Anakin is not his responsibility anymore. In ROTS Obi Wan tells Anakin that he failed him. He blames himself for Anakin's fall to the dark side and for everything else. But it's not Obi Wan's fault that Anakin decided to kill his former Jedi comrades, to kill the younglings and do every evil thing he did and I think that Obi Wan is starting to realize this. Also he said a jedi defends life and does not take it. If he would have killed Vader/ Anakin he would be breaking his point of view and he would never be able to live with himself.
Bro... As a Jedi, Obi-Wan should know selflessness should come first and when dealing with a dangerous, murdering monster like Vader, who Obi has seen he's not Anakin anymore.. Obi-Wan would NOT DECIDE OUT OF PRIDE OR SELFISHNESS to let him live because he wants Vader to feel the pain that he lost twice to Obi-Wan.
Obi-Wan would try to kill Vader to free the galaxy of this evil (he saw Vader kill innocents! And younglings!) and future save lives. That's what a Jedi warrior would do. The only reason I would think he couldn't is because he LOVES Anakin and THAT'S IT. Otherwise Obi-Wan should have tried to kill him... But hey!! Quick reminder.. Padme told him that there's still good in him! So if the writes did their HW they would have had A MOMENT where Obi remembered that and lowered his saber..... At least there you have an actual emotional beat that follows from the PT.
C'mon dude 🤷
He went to kill Anakin Skywalker. Once Vader said that he killed him, he didn't have to
To me, it would have been cool to see Obi Wan (reluctantly) ready to kill Vader, but Qui Gon's voice tell him not to, kinda like he did to Anakin as he was killing the tusken raiders
That would’ve been good
That would’ve worked.
Damnnnnnn that’s a great idea
Bro yesss
I agree, killing Vader would have messed with the continuity for 4-6 lol
I kinda hoped Obi-Wan would’ve said something along the lines of “I know there’s good in you. Padme believed there’s still good in you” which would’ve pissed off Vader hearing Padme’s name and lead to him saying “Anakin is gone!” This would also connect to how in Return of the Jedi when Luke said all the “I feel the good in you” stuff, Vader responded with “Obi-Wan once thought as you do.” I think this would’ve made the scene that much more emotional than it already is.
You literally stole my comment it’s good tho. And he tried turning him by apologizing and referring to him as anakin.
Not but idea but what’s the fun in character verbalize everything in his mind??? That’s what made Lucas’s screenplay childish.
That would’ve been good because I never got a sense from Obi-Wan that he ever actually believed in the goodness in Vader. We know from the OT that he thought Vader was totally evil, in ROTS he pretty much felt the same way, immediately dismissing him as irredeemable despite apparently being like a brother. So I’m wondering where Vader got the idea that Obi-Wan ever felt the same way Luke did, because he never once seemed to believe in Vader’s ability to find the light.
@@tommyl.dayandtherunaways820 He tries to reason with him the entire way through until Anakin completely blocks him out and they start fighting. He does it a bit agressively because he's emotionally hurt, but if he didn't believe in Anakin he would've wasted no time engaging him. Instead he talked, tried to reason with him. Even paused after they started fighting to try to reason some more. "But Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!" He says this halfway through the fight, Anakin just responds "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" and Obi-wan can't respond to that, so he just accepts that Anakin is lost.
So no, he didn't immediately dismiss him being redeemable. He tried, but Anakin wouldn't budge, so he gave up. So in this sense, yes Obi-wan once thought as Luke did. A long time ago when he still had three limbs.
Damn..
I can see where you're coming from but I don't believe Darth Vader or Obi-Wan are able to be completely honest in their dialogue. My head canon is that Obi-Wan still sensed Anakin in Darth Vader (when he calls him Darth, it comes off as mocking as Obi-Wan believes he is not aware of it himself). As a student of Qui-Gon, someone who believed in the Living Force, Obi-Wan's instincts told him to spare Darth Vader's life. Perhaps in the short term, killing Darth Vader prevents more tragedy but it is not what the Living Force is telling him. I think that Obi-Wan finally being able to see Qui-Gon's Force Ghost is an acknowledgment that Obi-Wan is on the right path and made the decision attuned to the Living Force.
I think something worth mentioning is that I think there's a good chance that Darth Vader might have spared Obi-Wan when he was toying with him in Episode 3.
On the gradient of the pacing, it comes off that they worked backwards from the last episode. The writers knew that they needed Obi-Wan to best Darth Vader (if there was any direct conflict between the two) and they needed to be sure to set the pieces so the story can still flow into A New Hope.
It might be interesting to look into how the 6 different episodes map onto the prequel and original trilogy, they might rhyme.
The problem is that Obi-wan says “then my friend is truly dead.” He realizes that there is no hope to save him, and refers to him as “Darth,” not Anakin. He now has every reason in that moment to finish him off, in order to protect Luke, Leia, other Jedi in hiding, and the potential millions of innocents that Vader would go on to murder in the future. At the very least he should have finished him off to put him out of his misery, in the name of the love he had for his former best friend.
I kinda feel like he maybe pity Vader by saying that? And not really meaning it?
your right but plot armour since they have over done this same time line we always know who lives and dies
I think it proved that Obi-Wan is still a Jedi. He wouldn't kill a beaten opponent who couldn't defend himself anymore. Which isn't always the logical choice as pointed out by Anakin many times.
It’s not the Jedi way to execute. When Anakin killed Dooku that was a dark side move.
Ben wouldn’t make a dark side move. I don’t get how ppl don’t see that.
By killing Vader then & there that would’ve hindered the Empire sure.. but Palpatine is still the head honcho which means the Empire would still exist, the Death Star would still be made.. millions of people still would die.. he’s not really gaining/stopping anything by finishing Vader off.
Kenobi knows full well if he kills Vader he would simply be replaced just like when he killed Maul.. it stopped NOTHING..
as long as Palpatine is Emperor, the fate of the galaxy would still have the same outcome.
Kenobi might win the battle but the Jedi are still losing the war.. in the end it IS Vader who destroys the Empire & Palpatine.. not Obi-wan or Luke.