Qui-Gon Jinn's Return Breaks George Lucas Canon and I'm here for it - My Thoughts
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- Опубликовано: 27 июн 2022
- In the Obi-Wan Kenobi show, Qui-Gon Jinn appears finally to Obi-Wan Kenobi at the very end, after his duel with Anakin / Vader. I see many people saying that it breaks canon from George Lucas's Star Wars, and I agree. However, now that it's in the hands of Disney, I don't mind. Their choices don't really align with George's vision anyway, so a lot of this is really just fan fiction with the original actors for me. Qui-Gon's appearance shouldn't happen, but I want it to, and I'm happy it did.
What do you think?
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I don't see how it would be canon breaking if Anakin was able to learn it so quickly after dying and returning to the light side. And that was George Lucas Canon too. This is rather a non-issue compared to other things in established canon that were challenged by the show.
Facts
Not the same issue at all. Anakin learning really quickly before dying isn't the same thing as qui gon not learning the last part of the training before dying at all.
I think Qui-Gon appearing breaks someone’s head canon.
Anakin fulfilled one of the conditions to become one with the force on his own...which is to feel deep love at the moment of death...the others then assisted him in forming his ghost form
Wrong. It breaks Canon because GEORGE LUCAS himself established that Qui-Gon didn't learn the full skill of becoming a force ghost. Disney didn't even bother to check that out
There is not enough Qui-Gon Jinn in Star Wars. It gave me the feels too when I saw him. I am glad they will be telling more of his story.
Seriously. A Jedi who just straight-up uses his power to rob people/cheat is a refreshing break from the Jedi's otherwise ridiculous morality.
Isn’t he like, the most important Jedi of all time? Because he found Anakin, and introduced him into the Jedi order?🤷♂️
@@evanabbott2737 i would argue he’s one of the most important. but i think luke is more important
@@evanabbott2737 and that I believe in one of the comics sidious feared qui gon because he was the one jedi who wasn't blinded like the rest of the jedi were and would have seen through his deception faster than the rest.
@@DJZO1203 Luke wouldn’t be around without qui gon
My theory was that he actually did complete his training. And it was in fact that yoda was the one “not ready to see” but was always close. Obi-wan on the other hand, was ready.
Always curious on that like ghost body thing, in phantom his body didn’t disappear like yoda or obi wan in 4-6
@@kstwar07 anakins body didn’t disappear either. It’s because he was ready when he died but trained after as well
@@kstwar07 Yoda and Obi wan didn't die, they decided when to cease, meanwhile Anakin died, given that, there is no contradiction, you can let go and disappear, or just return from the brink, one is harder, we also could say that Anakin is only seen for those who are ready, since he is not immediately shown even when he is beside Yoda and Obiwan
@@alenasenie6928 Yoda did in fact die this is stated by george himself
In my mind its a similar thing to the Mortis Arc in the Clone Wars, when Qui-Gon Jinn showed up. I think he can show is physical form to people who are very strong with the force or in areas strong with the force.
Your comment is the exact thing I think when people talk about it
Well Lucas flat out states he's not accomplished enough to do this...everyone wants them to ruin every last character pre-Disney...this universe has become nothing but utter garbage and they can't just ruin current and future events...they have to destroy the past events...explain how Leah doesn't care about Obi-Wan Kenobi's death in A New Hope after this series...how apparently anger and emotions weajen a sith...how Beru is now the one in charge...how a force using inquisitor cant kill them but a group of storm troopers can...how do theorists and people invested in the lore even watch anymore? Oh and Luke sees a force user before A New Hope
@@BodieB I start to wonder why you even watch.
Yes! Why hasn't theory addressed this? This was even pre Disney Clone Wars.
@@BodieB I hate to be the one to do this, but I'm tired of people finding plot holes where there are none. Litterally all but one of the points you make are wrong. I'll give you the one about Leia on Obi's death, but that could be explained in future events (why do you people never assume that some plot points may be resolved in future seasons or series, I will never undestand...). Sith never had, do not and never will be weakened by emotions, Vader weakness is OVERCONFIDENCE, he doesn't chase after Obi-Wan becouse he cannot, his suit controls are broken, he has a lightsaber cut on his back, his brearhing system mulfuctions and just moments before was hit by a large number of boulders, this isn't vader from the comics he is younger, weaker and much less experinced. Beru isn't in "charge", they are fucking married. Reva didn't kill Owen becouse he fell outside of her range, she was still hurt and fatigued by her wound, Beru didn't die becouse Reva saw Luke escape and THAT was the priority, he already had an advantage and also immagine being a trained force sensitive adult and being outrunned by a child in a open field, that is fucking impossible, Reva's wound was clearly slowing her down (she even screams in rage and pain in the shot when she is chasing Luke, and her posture shows she is strugling). Owen and Beru had an advatage over Reva too, they where 2 vs 1 against a wounded opponent, they knew she was coming, had prepeared and ambush and where also 8/9 years younger than in a New Hope. Luke never actually sees Reva's lightsaber or the Force beeing used, plus it is dark without artificial light and he loses conciousness. Now I'm not saying the show doesn't have problems, Reva's character isn't great at all (yet), I still have no fucking clue how she got to Tatooine so fast, the chase in ep 1 with Leia and the abductors is almost as bad as the chase in Boba Fett, and some other minor details. The series is still better than Boba Fett's and much, much, MUCH better than the sequels, so why there is so much hysteria about it when it isn't even finished yet we are only at season 1. Excuse me for this poem, but I really couldn't hold it anymore.
Don’t often like breaking canon in shows but this is one that’s simply needed. We NEEDED to see Liam Neeson as Qui-Gon again, and he looked fantastic, as if he hasn’t aged at all. Just hearing his voice wouldn’t have been nearly as enjoyable, it just works perfectly.
Definitely man. May the Force be with you
We dont, we need AT LEAST decent writting and stories, not fan service porn that even breaks canon.
if you dont break cannon you know what is gonna happen then no suprises
@ don't be a hater.
He had clearly aged, though.
The crucial point is the moment that you learned enough to be able to transfer your consciousness into the living force. After that and your actual death you are able to continue learning how to visibly appear in front of force users.
I never understood why Qui-Gon Jinn shouldn't be able to finish his training with the Whills becoming a full force ghost after he already learned to transfer his consciousness.
Exactly.
Has there ever been a thing where you can't learn and train as a force voice? I never understood the complaint tbh
Yeah, it's very hard to believe the Wills will not teach it and dumb if could not. I believe he was slow at learning it, then not complete the training. 🤨
See this argument doesnt make sense. When Obi-wan dies, he fully vanishes because he completed his training. Same with yoda. However when Qui gon dies, his physical body is left behind and in my head that could only mean that qui gon cant appear in a actual form.
@@brendonvineyard8620 I think they're going with that he still didn't finish his training while alive. But over the 20+ years he's been dead he managed to complete it while being in the netherworld of the force. It just took that long since he was dead, but finished enough of it while alive to keep his consciousness.
With Qui-Gon being a sentient Force ghost, it's been 10 years since he revealed he could only manifest in voice. Plenty of time to learn the full ghostly appearance thing. Especially if he was communing with Yoda...who may have learned the entire training. Star Wars doesn't stop at the end of one movie, then start at the beginning of the next. It's a fluid story that we have to fill in the gaps for and we shouldn't expect everything to be shown to us.
agree the counsel does
not possible stated directly in clone wars
@@houseofaction still, years later, it might have been possible. And iirc, Qui Gon appeared in Clone Wars as a force ghost.
I would love to see a Qui Gon Jinn series. Even if it’s a few episodes showing Dooku turn to the dark side and leaving the Jedi.
I would like to see an Anakin Skywalker series with him, Ewen McGregor, and Rasario Dawson as Ahsoka. Maybe Ahsoka can reflect on the Clone Wars. Seeing Anakin in a clone wars setting for 6 to 10
Episodes would be great. I could imagine seeing characters like padme, ventress, Yoda and some others up to order 66. The fans like myself are craving more.
As much I love the clone wars era, don't you think we already have got enough of it and their characters. We literally got a full clone wars series, Obi Wan just got a show, Ahsoka is getting a show and the whole trilogy is bascially Anakin's story. I'd like to see more films/series from other eras.
I don't know if this is confirmed or not, but Qui Gon and Dooku are supposed to appear in the Tales of the Jedi animated series.
@@harrydifelice7693 I agree! I want a Darth Bane trilogy! No desire to see anything beyond the current sequel trilogy. I want SW to go back in time and give us some Old Republic series or movies! Even stuff about the Rakata and the beginning of the Jedii would be awesome!
@@redleg1971 completely agree bro. Just a new story, from a new era with new characters would be so refreshing ! As I said I love prequel content and I liked the Kenobi show but there just isn't that much suspense as we know what's going to happen to the main characters.
@@harrydifelice7693 agree but with the new technology the more live action light saber battles the better. We been starved bro. But yeah old Republic PG version would be goated
I'm completely okay with Qui-Gon showing up as a force ghost at this point in canon. If they do end up doing a second season of Kenobi, I'm hoping it focuses on Obi-Wan training with Qui-Gon
Same man. May the Force be with you.
Me too
@@rustyshackleford9811 May the Force be with you as well
Same
Reva needs to have an on-screen death in the first minute of session 2 and Leia is never to be seen again.
In the canon book a certain point of view, Qui Gon shows himself to Obi Wan during the events of a new hope so it’s safe to assume he had the ability for a while
From a certain point of view
Yeah, and that novel is canon. So yeah, Qui-Gon must've been allowed to complete his training after death.
Yup! This time homie has a garbage take.
Disney canon lol
In my head canon, Qui Gon was teaching Yoda how to do it on Dagobah, and Yoda got the hang of the basics so quickly he started teaching Qui Gon the advanced stuff
It doesn't really go against cannon. As he said "I was always here, you just weren't ready to see me." Yoda and certainly Obi-wan never had such a restriction. Obi-wan's ghost more or less showed up at will when he had something to say to Luke....Luke didn't have to be in the right mindset or whatever to see and hear him.
True, as a normal ghost he would be able to show up despite the mindset
+Juggernaut great point.
why everyone forgets that he was shown to be capable of appearing in clone wars? it just takes more because his training was incomplete, there is also nothing that says that he couldn't be more and more visible given time
@@alenasenie6928 Agreed. Force Ghost he is and damn the purists !!!!
Agreed, doesn't go against cannon. just because someone doesn't complete training, doesn't mean they don't have the ability
I think that Qui-Gon’s character is just to good to let it go that easy. I’m happy they broke cannon simply because it means we get more of that character. He is by far my favorite and it’s good to see him on screen again
The Qui gon moment was literally shocking for me, watched it first with all my friends and we were losing it, then watched it with my dad, who introduced me to Star Wars as a massive fan himself, and Qui Gon was his favourite character ever, me and him shed a tear together as qui gon said, took you long enough, it was just utterly magical, and I thank them for it
I honestly don't understand why Qui-Gon was originally not able to manifest himself physically. The explanation was that he "didn't finish his training before he died". If that was the case then how could Anakin learn it moments before he died? I know that Obi-Wan reached out and it made time slow down and all that stuff. But yeah, I love that they did this. Qui-Gon deserves it because he was the first Jedi to find out about this power so it makes sense he would be the first to manifest himself physically. I mean, if he hadn't finished his training and didn't make it to that point, then how did he teach Yoda and Obi-Wan to do it?
Exactly!
Facts, it’s literally stated in the end of ROTS where Yoda tells Obi Wan how to communicate with Qui Gon and he gave Obi Wan tasks to learn in order to become one with the force.
Its the same question between me and my friends. And we all just agreed that it’s because he was the chosen one 😂
@@kristofferfrancisco4851 lol good explanation.
Novels both in legends an even Disney comics explain that since anakin was born of the force that his manifestation was a natural one compared to
Yoda ben etc who needed training to transcend themselves into the force
I think the best way to look at all of this, or at the least the way I've been explaining it to myself is that because of the connection between Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, and Obi-Wan is able to get a clearer picture in some way. Whether seeing Qui-Gon is just a hallucination and his brain filling in the gaps when he hears his voice, or it's because of the master-apprentice relationship (which cannonically does change how two people interact in the force), Obi-Wan is just the only one that can.
That is also an explanation for how Kenobi appears to Luke and not Qui Gon.
Exactly how I saw it 😂
@@suumcuique4530 ? wdym
That moment in the livestream was crazy. I saw chat spam ‘Qui gon’ all at the same time then he appeared on my
Tv then I start crying, look over to my
Second monitor and theory is crying. Dank Farrik! That was a good episode.
"Took you long enough." - QuiGon Jin
"Beginning to think you'd never come"
@@felixgonzalez475 "I was always here, Obi wan".
Immediately blames his padawan 😆
I loved that 😂
@@retrodextro “come on, we’ve got our ways to go”
Jinn appearing as a solid like Force Ghost has been canon since From a Certain Point of View book since 2016 when he appeared to Obi right before A New Hope. This just showed us his first known appearance as a Force Ghost period. Force Ghosts can learn to become more corporeal. Jinn just finished his training in the Netherworld. Simple.
Still breaks George's version of the cannon
@@timon6759 yeah people just don't seem to get that. It breaks LUCAS canon. It doesn't break Disney canon.
@@joyoustye2326 Considering the Disney canon broke it like five years ago, then it no longer is breaking anything. It’s not the first example of that so it doesn’t get to have the credit as what broke the canon
yea but thats disney canon, not Georges canon which is what he was trying to say in the video.
“We used this shitty writing to justify other shitty writing instead of writing something good”
All Disney content is just to excuse other fuck ups
I'm so happy Qui-Gon returned with Liam Neeson. He was the best thing of the Phantom Menace and I just love the character so much. I'm glad we got to see so many returns with the original actors. It feels like we are getting expanded universe material through these shows, even if not everything is from the original canon.
I was more delighted to see Qui-Gon, especially since we all knew it was coming. The most emotional scene by far for me was when Kenobi broke down crying saying “I’m sorry Anakin!”. That really got me, and explains why he couldn’t just finish him off when he had the chance. That’s why Vader says to Luke “Obi-Wan once thought as you did…” in Return of the Jedi.
The whole arc of Qui Gon is that the Jedi council distrust his embracing of personal emotional attachment with the force. Had Anakin been able to channel his emotions in the way Qui Gon would have taught him he may never have turned to the dark side and the Jedi order collapse. So it's a beautiful moment that Obi Wan finally is able to see/connect with his old master once he embraces his emotional attachment to Luke and Leia, which gives him the strength to force push the rocks Vader drops on him during their fight.
Liam Neeson didn’t even look that much older than he did in Episode 1
I find it super interesting how you said seeing qui gon was emotional for you having remembering episode one coming out in theater. The final Vader and obi won scene was emotional for me because I remember watching episode 3 in theaters as a kid.
Agree 100%. However. Being that the Galaxy turned so dark after ROTS, I can absolutely see The Whills making an exception and teaching/allowing Qui-gon to manifest physically after death. He is such a positive influence Obi-Wan and could be for additional Order 66 Massacre Survivors.
I don’t think it really takes away anything that Qui-gon doesn’t appear in the original trilogy. Like Qui Gon appearing to Luke wouldn’t make much sense considering Luke has no connection to him (unlike Obi Wan in V and Yoda in VI)
When Qui-gon said he couldn't appear, that was 10 years earlier ... why can't we just assume that he completed his training after death?
See this argument doesnt make sense. When Obi-wan dies, he fully vanishes because he completed his training. Same with yoda. However when Qui gon dies, his physical body is left behind and in my head that could only mean that qui gon cant appear in a actual form.
@@brendonvineyard8620 1.- Stop copypasting the same comment over and over again.
2.- Anakin's body was left behind aswell, but learned how to manifest AFTER death.
@@brendonvineyard8620 Who is to say that Qui-gon's body/bones, didn't disappear and become one with the Force after he completed his training in the Afterlife?
Seriously, it's not like there is a whole lot of established lore on how Force Ghosts work in Canon (especially New Canon), so there is absolutely zero reason to say he couldn't/can't do something ... because there is no Canon saying he can't. And, well, clearly he can.
@@coolmuzt "stop copy pasting over and over" i put this in 2 comments saying similar stuff lmao and i didnt want to re write it. Also who the fuck do u think u are. Ill copy and paste to as many comments as i please.
@@beowulf.reborn Well with George he didnt want to make qui gon able to appear in physical form because of the originals and it would make no sense him not being there. This just took away the reasoning for it in the first place
I really like your mindset on the current canon. Picking out things you really like and more-or-less ignoring the rest. I have been mostly doing the same myself. Thanks for the video man!
I think it's a specific connection between Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. The Will's Clone Wars arc with Yoda covers the deep connection Dooku had with Yoda, and I think maybe Kenobi is just the only one that Qui-Gon can manifest himself in front of visually because of their bond, just like how Obi-Wan was able to reach out to Anakin in his final moments maybe because of their bond.
The thing about mystical forces is that none of these characters actually know everything about it, nor can it ever be fully explained. Just because someone said "this is impossible" doesn't make that true. Go back a couple hundred years and people would say that radio communications were impossible.
"I was always here, Obi-Wan. You just weren't ready to see. C'mon, we got a long ways to go." - Qui-Gon Jinn
I had always thought it would be a good way to explain all this that “force ghosts” actually show themselves through those who knew them. They couldn’t appear for people who didn’t know them. So, they actually reside in the living force in those who cared for them. Luke never knew Quigon so that makes sense. Maybe?
Qui-Gon Jinn’s return was Heartwarming for me
Because, seeing Liam Neeson’s BIG Comeback return to the Star Wars Universe was clearly quite often.
But it’s great to see him returning.
That part made my day happy again.
because we haven’t seen Liam Neeson not that long ago since Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace
and then see his character again as in Force Ghost form in Star Wars: The Clone Wars
and then I heard his Force Ghost voice in TROS
when he reaches out to Rey during the climax.
and then right now
he’s BACK as a Full Force Ghost Jedi in
Live-Action form in Obi-Wan Kenobi.
what can I say
“The king has returned.”
I think this can be explained pretty easily, but I'm not as well-versed in the deeper lore, so forgive me if I'm missing something.
In the Original Trilogy both Obi-Wan and Yoda clearly shed their physical bodies upon death and "take their bodies with them" to manifest later.
But when Anakin/Vader dies, he doesn't appear to leave his physical body behind, at least not from what I could see in the movie by itself.
If we go by this logic, then we have a reason why Obi-Wan's Force Ghost looks like Alec Guinness rather than Ewan McGregor: it's because he took the easy/fast way of becoming a Force Ghost by taking his body with him.
Qui-Gon didn't take his physical body with him, so it makes sense that he'd have to find some other way to manifest himself. When he says "Took you long enough," he may not just be referring to Obi-Wan finally being able to see him but also talking to himself a little bit, reflecting on his own journey to manifestation.
Anakin is a special case. Due to his natural and rather strong connection with The Force, along perhaps with lessons from Qui-Gon who already learned how to manifest without taking your physical body with you, Anakin is able to figure out how to manifest himself physically much more quickly. This would also make sense because Anakin/Vader already travelled into The Force in an attempt to save Padmé so he may already be familiar with what that feels like.
And because the mind of Anakin is the one that passed over, rather than the twisted alternate personality Vader, that's why he looks like Hayden Christensen. My theory is that when you don't take your physical body with you (and you aren't a Skywalker) it'd take years and possibly decades to learn how to manifest a physical body.
This also explains why it doesn't seem to take as long for Obi-Wan to manifest himself relative to Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan brought his physical body with him, so he could skip a few steps on the road to manifesting as a Force Ghost.
I also like this headcanon because it makes Qui-Gon even more badass because even though it took him a long time, he was able to do something that only The Chosen One has been able to do so far.
Wdyt?
It doesn't break canon. It's mentioned in some books, that he completed his training in the afterlife.
I didn’t know that for a fact but in my head I told myself that after seeing his force ghost lol
Which canon sources?
@@OWmyDragonballz From a Certain Point of View. Qui-Gon appeared to Obi-Wan around the beginning of A New Hope.
@@Voltar no anything labeled as canon is canon
That's your opinion and I respect that, but other people don't see it like you do.
The whole force ghost thing had always been vague. Ghost Obi-Wan, Yoda. & Anakin only appeared to Luke and ghost Luke only appeared to Ray. Maybe there is no physical form and only a manifestation in a specific person's mind
Completely agree. Anakin is my favorite character but Qui-Gon is the Jedi I’d strive to be like!
You do such a good job in balancing the traditional material with the new approaches. In my opinion, and probably a lot of others, on point. keep going bro
"A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one." - Pretty much every fan when he showed up
It wasn’t much of a surprise to me tbh. Ever since we saw Obi-Wan trying to reach out to him in Episode 1, I figured Qui-Gon would appear in some form later on during the show.
SWOG Here - I really appreciate your energy and turn-around about Disney. I agree with you 100%. It will make for so many possible story directions for the next generation of stories. I also feel the same is true for Reva's character, so many different possible cool directions to go. I would also add that this is GL vision as well. Always thinking about how to bring SW into the home, Selling out to Disney was a good choice for his vision. Disney is ---- 'Where Dreams Come True'.
You as a boy watching EP 1 in the theaters must have been amazing for you.
My Grandchildren loved 1,2,3 - They, 100%, didn't care about the negative feedback. SW was life to them as it was to me back in the 70s. Every 10 years or so I feel Disney will bring on a new set of movies, games, and TV shows designed BOTH for the new-gen of kids while loosely honoring the older fans.
SW is Life!
Everyone has their own idea of "canon", and like it or not, for a large part of the audience, Canon is only what happened in the movies. Yes, many people read the comics, the books, watch the cartoons, etc, but Disney was reaching for them AND the "if you only saw the movies" crowd, too. And if you only saw the movies, this doesn't break canon at all because there is no Qui-Gon training to learn about the Whills in the movies (let alone that he didn't finish it), there is no clear explanation of who can and can't be a force ghost...only Yoda saying, "An old friend has learned the path to immortality. One who has returned from the netherworld of the force. How to commune with him I will teach you." Well, many people "commune" face to face, not just voice to ear, and "returned from the netherworld of the Force" could mean as a ghost or a voice - so Qui-Gon showing up, with that understanding of "canon" - nothing is broken at all. The more people try to make absolutely every detail fit, the more I think they miss just sitting back and enjoying the story (and the fun). Sometimes less is more, and I really hope Season 2 of Kenobi goes like this: Episode IV: A New Hope. LOL
I genuinely don't understand how it breaks canon? Can someone explain. I'm very familiar with Star Wars, I just don't see how it breaks canon. Where was it stated they could only hear his voice? At the end of Episode 3 when Yoda says he's been communicating with Qui-Gon, that was when he was able to be seen I presume.
It's in the clone wars series. You find out that he hadn't completed his training before getting killed by maul
watch season 6 Episode 11 of The Clone Wars. It explains it when Yoda reaches dagobah
Well if you watch the video you will find out
He wasn't supposed to be able to manifest in his physical form yet. Meaning he would normally be a glowing orb of light with a voice.
In Clone Wars S6, Yoda goes to Dagobah under the direction of Qui-Gon’s voice. While there, Yoda asks if Qui-Gon can show himself. He responds by saying no, he could not, as his training was incomplete.
Ima keep saying it until I die , we need a redeemed FORCE GHOST OF ANAKIN!!!! Imagine we see him and obi wan together again!!! or even see padme with anakin living in peace in the netherworld of the force!!! LIKE WHY NOT??? BRO US FANS NEED TO RUN LUCASFILM😔😭😭.
Have you never watched Return of the Jedi? We’ve had a redeemed force ghost of Anakin with Obi-Wan since 1983
we did we see hayden as a force ghost. in the original remastered trilogy
Personally i would love to see more of Qui-Gon in future star wars projects. Hes very relatable and such an amazing character. I was so happy and emotional when i saw him during the last episode of Kenobi.
I'm a couple of years older than Theory, but that time around 1997-99 was truly magical for me and so many others. Becoming a fan after the Special Edition of the Star Wars trilogy, a lot of fans of this generation got lucky enough to see the first 4 movies in theaters over a 2 year period, remaining a child across both trilogies. I'll never forget my dad buying me The Phantom Menace game on ps1 the first week it released and also seeing the first wave of figures hitting the shelves.
Wasn’t he able to go into his physical form even earlier in the clone wars when kenobi anakin and ahsoka were on that force nexus where the father and his children lived? I believe it was called mortis… and the explanation was that due to the force being stronger there he was capable of manifesting his physical form… sooo maybe in season 2 of kenobi if qui gon and kenobi train together it will get explained why he can do that now
Yeah bringing up Mortis is a good point. Perhaps that area of Tatooine is also particularly strong with the force, after all Anakin and Luke were raised there. Also it’s possible that Tatooine is naturally strong with the force which is why so many powerful Jedi end up there (by the will of the force). Basically I believe that Tatooine is a hotspot of sorts that is strong enough with the force to attract those who are strong. Either that or I just wrote a stupid rant that doesn’t make any sense at all.
Yes probably !
I don’t recall that the dark brother ever mentioned that he caused qui gon to appear the whole time and atleast from my experience online so many other people in the community also believe that that was the real qui gon can you please provide a source that maybe a creator of the show said something to this because I want to be proved wrong I genuinely believe that was the real qui gon in those episodes
@@finitatem in the episode ghost of mortis it is not a vision it is indeed a force ghost. Now in the overlord episode of season 3 it is a vision... I hate that folks keep trying to dismiss facts.
@@buff5081 Later On Anakin says he thinks it was a vision created by the dark brother. However after we see what happens with yoda and Qui Gon I believe it was actually him. Also if the dark brother did it, he probably would’ve looked like normal Qui Gon unlike the blue-ish force ghost appearance we see him in. In other words, you are almost definitely correct
To me this makes sense. He is guiding Obi Wan when he is watching Luke.
Qui Gonn Jin is a legend in itself 😍I was devastated when he fell to Darth Maul 😬🥺, that saber fight towards the end is so tense even to this day is one of the best battle /fight scenes I’ve ever watched in my life , Qui Gonn needs recognition he’s everything xx
We did see a Jedi communicate with another Jedi while still alive. Luke called his sister in Ep 8. And then had a chat with his nephew. Then Luke died from the strain of the effort to do it.
I think the force ghosts have an infinite energy source.
They already came up with a reason why he appears in the short-story book ‘From a certain point of view’, which is where it’s said that Qui-Gon completed his training to manifest after the rise of the Empire.
I'd like to think that the connection Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan shared in life makes up the difference, thus allowing the visual appearance.
This Kenobi series brought me to tears as well, but for a totally different reason…….
Theory: *hates when Disney breaks George’s canon*
Also Theory: “i’M hErE fOr It”
salty boi
Of all the “canon-breaking’ moments in Disney SW, this one is minor for me. Others I just cant accept or look past. You are correct when you say Disney SW is just fan-fiction that doesnt align with George’s galaxy far far away
Star Wars Disney is canon whether you like it or not, and there's nothing you can do to change it.
I teared up aswell being able to see qui gon and especially Liam coming back for it absolutely made it better and I don't care if it breaks canon because seeing him again just made me happy and made me stunned that they got Liam back for the show
It depends on your point of view. t does make sense in a way. After all, Obi-Wan was still being taught how to become a force ghost at that point.
In Legends, Obi-Wan found out the truth about what Anakin did during Episode 2. Qui-Gon confronts Obi-Wan about it, saying "Now you know the truth" or something to that effect.
Obi-Wan was kind of confused and angry about it, asking Qui-Gon how could he still believe Anakin to be the Chosen One despite what he happened. Qui-Gon said something to the effect of "Because you were not ready to know." It wasn't until Episode 6 that Obi-Wan finally understood what he meant.
I like your explanation of your Canon around the 9 minute mark, that's kind of how I feel with Disney Star Wars of keeping the bits I like as Canon and ignoring the bits I don't think fit into the universe properly
It's not canon breaking, there's a canon book where it states that he gains the ability to appear as a force ghost approximately 10 years after rots, which just so happens to be the timeline of the Kenobi show.
Also, in the short story Master and Apprentice from a new Hopes certain point of view it's never stated that it's his first time manifesting, only that he's at his most 'real'
Which canon book is that?
What’s the name of the book?
Skywalker: A Family at War, it came out last year and features a chapter about Obi-Wan where Qui-Gon finally reveals himself to him approximately around the same time as the Kenobi show
@@callummcluskie1921 yeah that's the one, couldn't remember it of the top of my head
It's literally in the Master & Apprentice novelization book that was released recently. It explains that Qui-Gon continued his training after Anakin fell to the dark side. He learns that he can still be able to visibly communicate with the living if he finishes his training. So he did.
Is this before or after the Disney takeover?
You’re yoda voice is getting pretty damn good theory!!! Love all the content! May the force be with you my friend!
To speak to what you said about your experience growing up on prequels in theaters, to experience growing up with the original trilogy in the theaters, and see it all take off from the original (before "A New Hope" added on was ever a thing), yes, that experience was an amazing time to be around watching and taking it all in.
One theory I've thought more and more on is "we've got a long way to go" seems to me there's more to it from what Qui Gon has previously said. "He will bring balance to the force," is one of the last things he says even while dying. Qui Gon is the closest example to a canon grey Jedi because he's not thinking on what's best for the Jedi, but what's best for the force; balance. He actually personified in the healthy way what Dooku was seeking I think. While he was no clairvoyant, he understood an inevitability of what had to happen for there to be a true, genuine balance to the force. The events that *had* to unfold for the relative conclusion of episode 6. That's just my thoughts anyways. I'm glad we got to witness a physical return of Qui Gon.
Really well put
100%. It was the Jedi that were out of balance, they had become so attached to the republic senate and of course eventually that resulted in the Jedi becoming war generals. The Jedi stopped listening to the force when they became bound by the republic, and that let the sith finally take control, and completely destroy them.
After Qui-Gon saying “…you just weren’t ready”, I’d be interested to hear the justification for Ben coming to Luke in ANH and ESB when he barely knew about the force let alone was “ready”
I love seeing Qui-gon again!! I hope they don't have many adventures for Obi-wan going forward, it'd be entertaining to see his training. Even the old stories would great and hearing events through Qui-gon's perspective.
While I didn’t see the prequels in theaters, I did see them all back to back in dvd around 2006 as a kid, qui gon stood out for me and I was sad to see him die early in the trilogy, seeing him again was very beautiful to see, little tears here and there 🙌👏
It was always my understanding that jedi could learn to be force ghost after death, otherwise how did Anakin learned to be one in Return of the Jedi?
Anakin was born from the force itself.his father IS the force. That what makes him different so I don’t think you can fairly compare what he does to everyone else.
A legends book tells a story of how Anakin learned to become a ghost after death by Obi-Wan
@@StarWarsSegredos pretty much this.
@@StarWarsSegredos anakin is extremely quick learner ,took him 10mins
I literally had tears in my eyes. Qui-Gon is my favourite character alongside Obi-Wan and to finally see him again in live action depicted by Liam Neeson after over two decades was what made the finalé for me.
I swear the only reason irl that Qui-Gon can only use his voice in Lucas' canon was as a way of getting around Liam Neeson not being available to film for Revenge Of The Sith. I don't really think it was like a big thing for Lucas being like 'no, Qui-Gon can only use his voice because....' it was simply a way of getting through filming restrictions. It's really canon-breaking on a technicality I'd say, not a big deal.
Your voice is so calm,I could fall asleep listening to one of your what if theories
To those who don't know why this breaks canon: Gui-Gon is seen in Clone Wars Season 6 Ep 11-13 as a cluster of lights instead of a Force ghost. This is because he didn't finish training to be one before his death. In Kenobi, we see him as a ghost instead of that cluster of lights. **In order for a Jedi to become a Force ghost after death, they have to undergo training similar to that which Yoda completed in the Season 6 finale.**
Correct me if I'm mistaken.
You are indeed correct about this
facts
But he appeared as a full Force Ghost on Mortis and Mortis arc was released before Disney how this is not canon-breaking then? Both Anakin and Obi-Wan saw and talked to him.
I don't get how it breaks canon tho. It's been 10 years already since this.
well obviously he found a way. Why is this even debatable. Its SW I mean Darth Maul survived falling hundreds of feet down a shaft while split in half. It's SW universe. All bets are off. Rules are broken to move the story forward.
This aspect of the show definitely does break canon. However, it seems that the popular opinion is that it is a good “break” if you will. I’m among those cause it’s awesome to see Liam again. I still think they could make it a logical argument. I think a good explanation could be to say that only Obi-wan is able to see Qui-Gon’s physical form because of how strong their force connections were in life which means they still possess that connection in death. Only through that connection can he see Qui-Gon. And I feel like the only two people who shared that close of a connection would be Obi-Wan and Dooku, if Dooku was still alive that is. Therefore, to everyone else, he’s just a voice because he didn’t finish his full training so he’s unable to show himself to everyone, but maybe a connection that strong could provide that physical manifestation. Idk. Just a potential theory and food for thought 🤷🏻♂️
I laughed my ass off when I seen the clip of star wars theory crying to a 5 second cameo of qui-gon lol
The show doesn't break canon
I've grown to really like the Qui Gon Jinn character alot. Learned more about him on your channel actually.
When I first saw him, I immediately thought “oh no he isn’t supposed to manifest his body” BUT after that split second I was very excited to see him.
I don’t know how much has come out about ‘Tales of the Jedi’ but what if what you said could be the framing device for each episode? Just Obi-Wan and ghost Qui-Gon on Tatooine just exchanging tales about different Jedi they knew 🙂
Edit: Just to say, I did post this idea an hour before RLM said it at they end of their video 😆 I didn’t copy them!
Hello There!
Damn you
General Kenobi
General kenobi you are a bold one
General Kenobi
@@THMstudios Many have
I loved getting to see Qui Gon again, he was the truest Jedi we met, he followed the will of the force, as Jedi were meant to, unlike the Jedi who basically became the enforcers of the Republic, he was a devoted servant of the force and thus more human while the Jedi were servants of the Republic, even Obi Wan said so on Mustafar, his allegiance shouldn't have been to the Republic, it should have been to the will of the force which lead them to become dogmatic and pretty strangely cut off from the people through fear of the dark side, a fear I suspect Qui Gon didn't really possess.
This had actually slipped my mind. Great video
If there is a season 2 of Kenobi, I’d prefer it just to be Obi-wan and Qui-gon training, or flashbacks. I think that’d be awesome.
So you want a series with absolutely no plot? I doubt execs would do a series of anything about two characters just training and reminiscing - you have to bear in mind that a TV show has to entice a wider audience than just a hardcore fan base
Even though it nullified canon Qui-Gon manifesting as a force ghost tugged my heartstrings. It presents some cool opportunities in the distant future, where Obi-Wan can begin his force ghost training and broadening his skills in the force. I wanted Qui-Gon to have a heartfelt conversation about Anakin giving his former padawan Obi-Wan some words of inspiration
I had the same reaction when I saw Qui-gon again even when obi-wan was talking to leia with the correct music playing hit me hard and I loved it.
Hi Theory, what is the background music you use in this video?
Qui-Gon in Clone Wars: "I can't take on a physical form since I didn't finish my training"
Qui-Gon in Obi-Wan: "Hello There! Look Obi-Wan, I'm blue now!"
Obi-Wan is more powerful now.
It makes more sense that someone can learn AFTER death. If we consider when Kenobi and Yoda parted ways for the final time, did Yoda really give Kenobi a crash-course in how to maintain himself as a force-ghost?
It makes way more sense to me that Jinn learned after death and spent time teaching Kenobi on Tatoine (sorry spellings is probably wrong.
Why teach him to commune with Jinn if even he didn’t know how to become a ghost?
This is one canon-breaker I’m perfectly OK with.
Yes makes sense. Qui-Gon learned part 1 of the Whills masterclass to immortality and then the extension after his death. Although Ben and Yoda had plenty enough time to learn it before death, there is another example:
Anakin learned the power right before or after his death if I recall correctly. Before going to the Netherworld of the Force Ben taught him that power in like 10 seconds (because Chosen One you know)
Thought! It would be so much cooler if The Father finished Qui-gon's force ghost training. I could see the Father and Qui-gon hitting it off.
Having read some of the comments and peoples theories. The most logical answer is that, Yoda and Obi-Wan both completed their trading before death and that’s why their bodies vanish when they die, Qui-Gon didn’t and so his body stayed behind, however in the time he’s been dead, as literal force essence he’s managed to complete his training to appear in the force as his physical form. Which makes sense because if I’m remembering correctly, the Wills looked like physical forms but they also had no physical form when they showed underneath their masks and robes, so it’s not completely unbelievable that they could have helped Qui-Gon find his physical form as a force ghost. It does leave me with another question tho, in ep 9 we can hear multiple Jedis voices speak to ray, but can’t we assume the ones other than, Yoda, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Anakin, and Luke didn’t learn this skill as they all died in order 66 and wouldn’t have learnt it at the temple since not even Yoda had done so until after the events, so how have they transferred their consciences as voices if they’ve not learnt the skill?
I mean I don't see how it goes against Canon either though
I know in the clone wars , he wasn't able too because he didn't finish his training. However, who's to say he didn't continue training after the fact ? We've never understood every single rule of the force so it makes sense even if it wasn't explicitly stated
His body was burned away. That means his physiscal body would be a pile of ashes if he ever completed his training. Yoda and Obi Wan disepeared when they died while Qui gon did. So stop trying to cover up for the massive plot hole the show made
@@tyfoparalax8894 how do you explain Anakin becoming a force ghost then? his body got burned too at the end of ROTJ and it makes no sense that he would've completed his training while he was darth vader
@@diegosalles9838 He is the choosen one lol
It does break canon, because there was no further training shown on screen. Only thing I could think of is he got training with the Mortis gods. However, I hope there is further explanation.
Season 2 maybe
Training could mean anything, we didn’t see the training, but nothing implied there was none in that entire decade.
@@dibsdibs3495 yeah
for me it breaks canon because he doesnt show up for luke after, not because they don't show his training, no one has ever seen anakin's training and he still becomes a force ghost, something that doesn't make any sense because the only jedi that knew about the training was qui gon. It breaks canon, but I'm also here for it.
@@thisistheway3812 which means it doesn’t break canon because it doesn’t contradict anything, it’s just adding something new
I love your back drop, death star. And Qui Gon Jinn is one of my fav too :)
That last bit would make an amazing series; Quigon giving Ben a history lesson from all of his experiences.
Good idea there, dude.
Well, in the canon 'From a Certain Point of View' novel, it explains that Qui-gon was in fact able to complete his training after death; and that the last time Obi-Wan spoke to Qui-gon's spirit was just right before he saved Luke from the Tuskens in ANH.
But I guess the real question is... why didn't Qui-gon's Force Ghost appear to Luke, alongside the other Force Ghosts?
I think they can only appear so many times and it's extremely painful. I think I read about it in a book somewhere
@@rustyshackleford9811 Hm, that's interesting. That could be why they're not in the sequels very often, perhaps?
Disney canon lmao
@@apollo53122 rey never met anyone but Luke and they all showed up for her
@@apollo53122 😔 shits weak man
My head canon is that Qui-Gon had his strongest personal connection to Obi-Wan (aside maybe Anakin) so maybe Obi-Wan, especially now that he has found his peace and is much more connected to the force than ever before, is just in a unique position to be able to see him. Maybe he is the only one who ever does.
One thing that I always saw as interesting was that the force ghosts always appeared in the presence of the person closest to them when hey died. perhaps its not that Qui-gon never completed his training, but maybe that he, and the other force ghosts are only able to appear in the presence of a force user they are close to when they die. This doesn't include the Sith, who seem to latch their essence to an object, but to jedi, who seem to imbed their essence in a living force user. It may be that Luke found a different way of doing this, but i don't believe that Luke was entirely a Light side user.
i remember hearing some one talk about how he was only able to manifest as a voice at first but over time he learned how to manifest
Maybe, because the bond between master and apprentice is strong, Obi Wan is able to visualize Qui Gon as a force ghost, even though Qui Gon’s training wasn’t complete. Whereas Yoda couldn’t see him because they weren’t as close
I'm all for this. After doing background research on Qui-Gon Jin, I realized how criminally underused he has been in the movies.
Not only am I open for him to spend time with Obi-Wan, but I would be all for a Qui-Gon Jin show if the character ever takes off in the mainstream.
While I know a lot of people find Cinemasins to be a bit of a laughing stock these days, one of his sins for Phantom Menace is not actually seeing when Qui-Gon defied the council as Obi-Wan mentions during one of their discussions of Anakin, and I actually agree. Watching a Jedi who actively defies the Council/the Order for the will of the Force could be interesting.
Thanks for all the great videos 👍
I wish they would have added Jinn’s voice speaking to Kenobi during the duel with Vader. At least a few words.
I did love seeing him again…
But just a few words during the dual would have been cool. Something like “ he is the Chosen one, he will bring balance”
Always thought that after his meeting with The Father on Mortis that Anakin was a shoe in for any afterlife abilities imo regardless of his penchant toward the dark side in the living Force. All he had to do was make the "choice" to sacrifice himself which essentially seems to be the common theme for all Jedi who learn that ability or commit the body to the Cosmic Force. Ben & Yoda did it for Luke's advancement, Luke & Leia did it for Rey (and probably Ben if ever a story is told), so why wouldn't Qui-Gon be able to do it for Obi-Wan? Makes complete sense to me...
Yes, Qui-gon never completed his training when he was alive. However, since he still exists consciously, doesn’t that mean he might have had the opportunity to complete his training?
That’s not how it works
@@cacuevas how does it work?
@@epiclight858 by completing the training before dying, maybe use your brain for once. Qui-Gon cannot show up as a force ghost because he DIED before completing his training, that’s the whole point, he cannot complete it while being dead. This was made clear by Lucas himself
@@cacuevas but he still has consciousness. His body is gone, but he still exists. So why can’t he train?
@@ryansmith-jr4gn no, you are the one not understanding. Because that’s not possible. Already established by George Lucas. My God how brainless you people are. Some cheap fan service is what it takes to turn of your brains
I'm surprised I've never heard you mention "Master and Apprentice" which is from the canon book FROM A CERTAIN POINT OF VIEW.
Master and Apprentice describes beautifully how Qui-Gon becomes a force ghost
One of my favorites
@StarWarsTheory 8:10 where you talk about Kenobi & Yoda communicating through the force, don't forget we see Yoda communicating with Ezra and also Ahsokha in Rebels when they're in a Temple. Perhaps we could see Kenobi finding (or being led by Qui-Gon) somewhere on Tatooine or a nearby system where there is somewhere strong enough in the force to communicate with Yoda and other force beings? I can see that being very logical and also works with previous instances of canon.
I just think we needed to see him. Also, he always sort of did his own thing. Doesn’t mean he had to be there to speak with Luke etc.