"Is there anything so undoing as a daughter?" is one of the most emotionally charged, genuinely heartfelt lines I've ever seen, heard, or read. The sadness, the pain, the recognition after ALL these years of what made Vander the way he was.
@ yeah I agree! That doesn’t nullify my interpretation though, which is accurate. “Is there anything so undoing as a daughter”. Jinx has always been the little sibling responsible for no-one. Vander, Silco, Vi, they all had a ‘daughter’ to loose. She never did until Isha. So both interpretations actually work wonderfully together (I’m an English teacher and students get extra marks for multiple interpretations haha). The writers are so excellent at drawing parallels everywhere, I’m in constant awe at how many character foils, juxtapositions and parallels they manage to weave
@@gabblebabbles2017isha did in fact (apparently) see her as an elder sister/motherly figure, but to be fair family is undeniably the undoing of vander silco and by extension vi and jinx. Talk about generational trauma
@taterskins1033 The mere fact that I could hear the line being spoken as I watched the clip in this video speaks to it's staying power in my mind. Absolutely brilliant.
Imagine ripping off one of Netflix's most anticipated animated series of the decade and failing miserably at it... I would never look at myself in the mirror if I were them.
One of the writers claimed that Frozen was the inspiration and you can see that in the end with May becoming the Anna to Osha's Elsa but I don't know if that is worse or better.
Honestly, Arcane is a master at Moral Ambiguity. The only two characters who I can think of as entirely "good people" are Ekko and maybe Caitlyn (Season 2 will no doubt change that). The two best examples are probably the argument between Vi and Jayce, and the scene where Heimerdinger is kicked out. All of these characters have decent arguments and you can't disagree too strongly with either of them. That's what makes Arcane special, the characters act like people would.
Totally agree, the characters in Arcane are so complex and interconnected with each other that while watching conflict happening I honestly can not think of any immediate best solution to the problem. I felt as stuck as the characters themselves.
Ekko is debatable, imho, because he essentially uses gang violence (aka evil means) to achieve noble goals (stopping Silco and his thugs). The first time we see him and his Fireflies, they're essentially doing the equivalent of a drive-by.
@Nr4747 Wouldn't say that. They're freedom fighters who rarely employ violence and when they do, they use non-lethal weapons like crystal bombs and flares.
The thing with Arcane is that the heroes may not always do heroic things and with the villains, even when they do shitty or morally bad things, you still fully understand why they're doing what they're doing. Like Vi is our protagonist and yet she not only hits her sister, calls her the thing that makes her insecure, and abandons her, even if it's not on purpose and even if you fully understand why she walks away. And this small act creates the monster of Jinx. And the thing with Arcane is that you can't really fully hate anyone. Even Marcus, as reprehensible as some of the things he does are, when it comes to his daughter, you still feel immensely for him. Same with Silco, he's turning the Undercity into a drug invested wasteland, but at the same time, his motivations and anger make perfect sense and it's even more heartbreaking because he's the only person to truly love and accept Jinx as she is where her sister can't. Arcane you can fully understand why everyone does what they do. In Acolyte, you're just baffled as to why people behave as they do.
I actually really love arcane cause all characters are understandable. I always watch people and try to understand why they do the things they do. I got autism so it's good practice to make sense of the world. And Arcane taught me so much about goals and motivations. And then you got this show. This show makes me feel like how I feel just watching people with no particular context. It's not like you understand any motivation of anyone. It is ambiguous but not morally. It just doesn't explain it's own actions and motivations so you're left guessing. And since the human brain always thinks the worst first.... Yeah nothing good came out of it.
@@junrobin9335 Fellow tism! I also enjoyed Arcane bc of this aspect. It's like how I perceived the world had finally, marginally, been portrayed in a comprehensible way. I immediately understood and accepted the tragedies and ambiguity, whilst a lot of people seem still to be stuck in choosing sides. In the most simplest sense: It is what it is.
Silco’s motives for taking in Powder are morally bad. He initially takes her in because he realizes that as an impressionable young child he can mold her and use her as he wants. His “love” isn’t a real love it’s a warped,corrupt, and toxic version of love he feels because he doesn’t truly understand what love is.
@@paige8453I have absolutely no idea how you came to that conclusion when the show gives evidence time and time again- though nuanced & brilliant writing, VA’s impeccable performances AND painfully detailed animation- that he _genuinely_ loved Jinx. There was true care in the way he held her the first time; it was clear through his voice, mannerisms and actions that he identified with the feeling of abandonment and genuinely wanted to comfort her. He identified with her pain and wanted to protect her from it. There was ZERO benefit of taking in a (as far as he knew) useless orphaned child. He didn’t need to become a loving, understanding, protective dad to have someone to manipulate and mold. Even as she grew and continued to make weapons, the chaos she caused would not have been worth it _at all_ if he only took her in with ulterior motives. She was the weak link in his empire’s chain- everyone knew it, including him- but he never got more than irritated with her. Adopting her for any reason beyond genuine attachment doesn’t make any sense, _at all._ Whether he’s a good man is debatable, but I have no idea how people still think it’s debatable that he truly loved Jinx as a supportive father loves his daughter. She quickly became his everything. I’ve seen this feeble argument too many times “Well, he’s a sociopath and sociopaths never feel love or empathy” and blah blah blah. I think a lot of people struggle with the fact that “normal” people can do “evil” things and that many, MANY “normal” people have sociopathic tendencies, but let’s say Silco has enough tendencies to be diagnosed with ASPD…. Some sociopaths CAN and DO feel love _and_ empathy. They’re not unfeeling machines that all go around hurting things for fun. My best friend for decades has ASPD and is _literally_ one of the most caring, supportive, thoughtful people I’ve ever known. Silco obviously had abandonment issues resulting from Vander’s betrayal that negatively effected how he loves, but that doesn’t mean his love is invalid or any less “real” than Vi’s or Vander’s. It is ignorant, close-minded and judgmental- and borderline egotistical- to pretend he didn’t/couldn’t feel or express (or even understand?!) “real love” just because he’s deeply hurt and flawed, just because it doesn’t match what you think “real love” should look like. Edit- Don’t know why I forgot to add these pieces of undeniable evidence that Silco loved his daughter… He was offered absolutely EVERYTHING he ever wanted- his entire life goal- and rejected it because he refused to betray his daughter. He even offers himself up, taking responsibility for her actions. She *literally k-lls him,* and he spends his literal last moments comforting her, wiping away her tears and lovingly cradling her face, telling her *she’s* perfect. Not “Jinx” is perfect or “Powder” is perfect, *she* is perfect, whoever she is and chooses to be. Those are actions of a man- a father- who TRULY understands _and_ feels what *real* love is.
According to Leslie, Sol deserves to die for being presumptive/paternalistic with Osha, but Anissa gets a pass for pushing witchery on her over protests, Horn-Mom never has it acknowledged she physically abused Mae & started a fight with the Jedi unilaterally, and Mae herself never admits nor gets called out for being creepy and possessive of her sister to the point of declaring she’d rather murder her than let her leave home, live her own life, or get an identity beyond “Mae’s wimp twin”.
For leftists, leftism is good because it leads to...more leftism. Leftists don't have objective standards or a higher authority. They measure themselves by themselves. Woke leftism is not a means to an end; it is the end. Its only goal is the realization of itself. It's like trying to get everyone to wear yellow. Getting people to wear yellow doesn't make the world better. It only makes it yellower. That might make you happy if you like that color, but your own personal happiness is not the same thing as true progress. But for self-centered leftists and Sith, personal happiness and self-actualization are all that matter.
One of the biggest reasons moral ambiguity has gotten out of control is because it feels it has to exist at the expense of any and all virtue. Moral ambiguity by nature is not against virtue at all. Virtues are allowed to exist as long as they have genuine results to them. Princess Mononke is a brilliant example of this. Lady Eboshi wants to clear away a natural environment that is still populated, yes. But she does so because she wants to provide a safe haven for outcasts like lepers and prostitutes that were close to starving before she gave them a home and an occupation. In the end, both the humans and the forest lose out on what they set to achieve because they only thought to take or keep instead of giving in exchange, and they all have to start over having learned from their destructive actions.
I would even go a step further and say moral ambiguity requires virtue. Or rather, a conflict of virtues. Doing one good prevents doing another good I think the current crop of writers somewhat think that just because the protagonist is taking action, that means it's automatically good, regardless of if there is actually virtue in their actions
You nailed it. Ambiguous or "grey" morality as it trends now is sadly mistaken as everyone being equally amoral. It's a mistake because it doesn't offer us lessons or reasons to root for main characters. Instead it is in its best form a clash of moralities. People trying to achieve what they deem good based on their experience and believes despite their flaws and harsh conditions, but ultimately fight each other because their goals aren't compatible, or more tragically they fail to see how they could be. I love Princess Mononoke for that. No side is wrong, just pressured by the same inescapable reality of war. Ashitaka's greatness as a character is trying to understand both sides and lead them to a compromise.
to create good moral ambiguity story, one need to understand about moral itself. how could new writers understand that when they grew up with stories full of moral ambiguity and no one ever truly explain the clear lines to them? some are smart enough to understand by themselves, but most are not. young people nowadays grow up being taught by incompetent teacher, how should we expect anything good comes out with these kind of circumstances..
thing I love about Arcane is that we all over the world come from different places....I come from an oppressed country that was nearly entirely killed off and our culture destroyed...we won our independance over 50 years because we fougght HARD , we needed people like Silco and Sevika.... people like Vander did nothing.... but there is a huge part of tthe people who think that Vander was the perfect guy...no he wasnt...he didnt care that his people are being oppressed and poisoned , if you have an enemy that is soo horrible against your people then you need to fight back just as hard ...thats just my opinion but most people come from pieceful countries who dont know war and see things entirely differently...they have this understanding that you can win your independance while working with your oppressor...trust me you cant, they just continue to exploit you ...until you dont let them anymore
@@HK-gm8pe I'm from a peaceful country so I don't have any experiences with situations like this but I too thought that Vander despite being a great guy and having his reasons for acting the way he does is far from perfect, allowing his people to be oppressed and starving. I also don't like how Silco is going about things, treating the people of the undercity as replaceable and creating mass addictions, but he is doing this with an actual good goal in mind. And that's the tragic and (from a writing standpoint) brilliant thing about this. There is no moral purity when in a situation like this. You can either allow things to get worse or do immoral things to try to make things better. Ekko and the firelights are probably the closest to being "good". They try to create a space where they are (relatively) safe and can flourish, protecting themselves from the oppression of the enforcers while also taking care of each other and not viewing their members as replaceable or harming themselves or each other for the greater good. Vander is probably wrong that no one wins in war, but he is right that everyone loses
You’re absolutely right. It reminds me of that Bible verse: Isaiah 5:20 New International Version 20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. The appalling message of this show and comments from the creator turned me off from Acolyte completely.
Arcane also has a diverse cast of characters, as the Acolyte tries to make its selling point on its diversity, Arcane actually writes their characters good and complex with their own morals and conflicts . There’s complexity to them, while The Acolyte tries and fails at writing complex characters, their approach is contradictory from their dialogue and their actions. The Acolyte failed where Arcane succeeded.
This. I think this is the difference between having diversity and being "woke." Diversity is just that. Diversity. "Woke" is when you try to make diversity your only/biggest selling point
@@michaelthecinebro I wasn’t calling it woke or anything, I was pointing how The Acolyte tried to sell off the show on it diverse cast rather than the story itself.
@@michaelthecinebro what people put out in the gaming space, the fake diversity and people pushing a social agenda to fit their narrative which is causing a disconnect from the audiences. With Arcane they give nuance and know how to write to make the characters feel real, like they are real human beings showing you their story in another world. Shows like Acolyte and stuff flowing with this, which is all for pushing what the companies envision and not what the audience wants. Arcane is a beautiful show, and I can't wait for where Christian Linke, Alex Yee, and Amanda Overton are talented and gifted writers I can learn from. And curious where they are going to take season 2 and beyond Piltover and Zaun. Yes Season 2 is the last season we will see of Vi, Jinx Caitlyn and those champions of their stories as they explore a new world in League of Legends in future installments of this show.
This is a great point. You can write in every race in the world into your story but if none of them are fleshed out, real characters, then you still don't have *any* diverse characters in your script.
In Arcane I knew that there was no chance that Jinx would go back to being Powder, yet i was still on the edge of my seat till the end. That's a true engaging story
@WickedHumor S2 was insanely good, I didn't think they could redeem Jinx in a beleivable way. The victor hextec Jesus arc was a bit weird but it was payed off perfectly
@@michaelthecinebro Well, in case of Clone Wars - Republic IS a tyranny toward CIS. There is no democracy (well it is on paper only) in Republic (instead mega corps are in charge) - it just rich, fat core Worlds want continue to subjugate and continue to parasite on The outer ring worlds (or genuinely dont care to protect them against pirates and bandits ) . CIS on contrast did not want to "rule the galaxy" - they just want to become independent nation (well, there are more nuances on both sides but this is your core goals) . And it hilarious how after Empire creation, we saw that CIS were right and they were a good guys there
Maybe the biggest thing Arcane does perfectly is introduce us to a sweet, innocent, likeable little girl who just wants to help her sister, then turns her into a monster we can sympthize with.
See that’s the issue. There is zero ambiguity in the Sith. While you can argue the ambiguity of the dark side on a greater scal since different groups engage with the dark side differently, the Sith and their fundamental ideology is inherently corrupt and has no ambiguity. It is as every bit as evil as the Jedi think, and that’s embodied by Palpatine who embodies that ideology to his very core.
Exactly. Again, I think you could play with this concept. Especially with the codes of the Jedi not being able to form attachments or have emotions and the Sith doing whatever they want when they want. I think there's a balance between the two extremes you could explore but they did it so badly.
@@michaelthecinebro there was a really interesting video about how the jedi and the force where presented in the original trilogy. Fundamentally, The Good Side of the Force is simply armony. A connection between everything. Everything is the same in the force. And the magic was that everyone could do it. Good Force was relationship and empathy and acceptance, even of death itself. That's why jedi are presented as the old sage, the eremit who understand and help, that asks how are you. Dark side is disruption of armony, command through power and violence. And the point is there is no good dark side of the force. Ah, it was a video about the misunderstand of grey jedi. So if you use the dark side, you cause disruption. Balance is not between light and dark side. Balance is light. It was all caused by a problem of words.
@@michaelthecinebro Someone actually analyzed the Jedi through the BITE model (used to determine if something is a cult or not). The Jedi tested positive on every single prong of the BITE model.
I can get people liking and understanding villains...but having Leslye identify with a villain that is bad "just because I want to use my power however I want" is concerning and disgusting.
As a League of Legends player who already knew the lore of these characters, I was genuinely floored by how well written Arcane was. I've always loved movies and stuff, yet Arcane, a show based on a game with pretty limited and mediocre lore, might be the best written origin story of already existing material I've ever seen.
Remember when the terrorist attack was blamed on Ahsoka in the Clone Wars? They still mostly treated her as one of them. Meanwhile here there are clear Jedi code violations and Grandmaster Yoda just allows it?! The strongest Jedi (aside from Anakin) didn't sense THIS MUCH of disturbance in the Force but he felt the massacre of the Jedi Order during Order 66, when the Dark side literally suppressed the senses of the Jedi? And what about Mundi, he has dementia now? I don't need answers to these questions, anything after the Finale of the Clone Wars is fanfic to me (because it is)
@@michaelthecinebro I'm not opposed to some series. But since I don't watch them I can't talk about those. Besides, everyone can like anything as long as it is not forced to the others
@@thephoenix4093 in the Acolyte they could've reported any time that there may be a Sith or an evil Force user yet they decided to rush him. And Jedi shouldn't work as authority figures yet here they are not only working as a plice or military force in this series but most of them corrupt as hell. Yes, the Jedi was corrupt in RoTS but it was because they though for 3 years in a galaxy wide war, what is the reason in this past for that corruption to appear? And don't get me started on the so called meta rules George Lucas created like there's sound in space yet there's a scene in the Last Jedi where there's no sound for 10 seconds straight
I was placing bets on when I'd see an Acolyte comparison to Arcane using the latter as the "this is how you do it" example. I've been using Arcane (and been evangelically recommending Arcane) as "So...this is how you do siblings on the other side of the war" etc. Thank you for doing this!
One actor involved with The Acolyte show said the best part about Star Wars is that there is no good or evil, which I and a lot of other people found to be cringe, which George Lucas literally said Star Wars was about if I were a good person or not.
That's what you get when you put people in charge of projects who reject canon. Marvel is in the same boat with all their creative lead choices for their more recent movies/shows.
12:18 - the original meaning between dark and light side was very moral, not just stylistic. In short it's about how you motivate yourself. Dark side is about motivating yourself to destroy others, being better than them, while light side is about motivating yourself to help others, become the best version of yourself. Dark side is faster, but as it's fuel is hate and revenge, it leads to only more pain and suffering, while light side, fuelled by love for one self leads to more love. I think that was the original meaning behind Dark and Light side.
And this depiction is consistent with other Dark Side-centric perspectives like in Clone Wars and The Old Republic, where some Darksiders may have more reasonable or sympathetic motivations, such as ending corruption or defeating someone objectively worse than themselves, but their unfiltered ambition and vengeance comes at the expense of others around them, as ambition devolves into jealousy and greed, which eventually destroys those reasonable and sympathetic motivations and replaces them with the desire for power and the will to simply survive the corruption around them. Darksiders like Palpatine are the strongest because they fully act on greed and ego and are willing to sacrifice anything to have power. The Dark Side is not something that can be used for good for long, as it is innately destructive and chaotic, and it brings out savagery and malice in those that channel it.
@@callmev3531In essence, the Dark Side is basically the Ring of Sauron. You can try to use it's powers for good, and you might even suceed at first, but eventually you WILL be corrupted.
@@johannesseyfried7933 , Pretty much yeah, like the One Ring, the Dark Side eventually is the thing using whoever channels it, not the other way around. But that's another thing, at best, it's only shown to be situationally or temporarily beneficial, like say, Starkiller (who's innately stronger than most Force-sensitives because of the implied reason that both his parents were Force-sensitives) leading a one man war against Imperials, but eventually he (and we, the player) have to choose not to let the desire to punish Vader jeopardize his goal of rescuing the Rebels and sacrificing himself to secure that their efforts to defeat the Empire both militarily and politically, otherwise Starkiller will end up dooming any chance of the galaxy being rid of Palpatine's tyranny. This theme is also brought up in Andor, of traditional Dark Side concepts of fear, anger and hatred being situationally beneficial, but detrimental in long run as it become paired with ego, jealousy and greed (which in a way is the real path to the Dark Side, being unwilling or unable to separate subjective experience from objective reality, with individual emotions and desires becoming more important than anything at the expense of the individual and those around them), as we see Rebels use people's fear, anger and hatred toward the Empire just as we see hope, compassion and love inspiring people to fight even if only to ensure someone else gets to be free of them Empire, but with Rebels like Saw Guerrera, his vendetta against the government is all his cares about, no matter who gets hurt, which only gives the Empire more ammunition to rally the public in their favor to deal with those "pesky insurgents". For a regular person, being able to regulate their emotions and ego may not always have wide-spanning consequences, but for a Force-sensitive with psychic abilities, mythic status and even political station depending on the time period, the burden they carry is greater than most even with the danger of the power they use eventually using them if they lack the wisdom and willpower to recognize it and resist, which not all of them do.
Huh, apparently if you want the audience to feel sorry for separated siblings or interested in the side character’s motivations, you give the siblings a reason to separate and the side character a reason for his motivation. Who knew?
Trying to portray the dark side as a good thing is like attempting to justify the use of chaos in Warhammer. Just a picture of it is all you need to know.
These psychos would try to argue the Dark Eldar aren't so bad because "They HAVE to do those things, it's saving their actual souls." ..... Yeah..... It's still fucked up. People that don't know are lost, but we know what's fucked up. That's fucked up.
After about a decade and a half of GMing tabletop roleplay games for other people, I think I have come to the conclusion that we seem to have forgotten at least one key aspect of "moral ambiguity", Machiavellian types and manipulative characters; motivation. Morally ambiguous people don't do morally ambiguous things because "reasons". They do them because they see them as the path of least resistance to their goal. And when these characters do not have a well established goal to be morally ambiguous about, they come out as petty or pointless.
Arcane: "everyone is driven by conflicting desires and having to choose between them can be painful" Acolyte: "everybody is a jerk. Isn't that an interesting literary idea?"
Arcane is how basically everything should be done. It's on point, compact, deep, technically flawless and emotionally and narratively sound. I couldn't find any single thing that would undermine its beauty. And I'm usually really critical.
Honestly, Arcane should be a case study on story writing. I was hesitant watching the show, because I don't play LoL, and didn't know wether I'd like this animation style. I only watched it because people seemed to rate it highly. For 9 episodes of 20-25mins, it does everything it needs to do. I have it rated 10/10 on my rating list, and I rate almost everything between 4 and 7. It's rare for me to rate movies and shows 8 or 9, but this show just does everything well. It's hard to find something where you end up binging it, but this show I binged.
They kinda massacred my boy Sol in the writing, suddenly from episode 6 onwards, the show was trying to steer us to like the Sith and despise Sol. It really ruins the ambiguity thing when the writing clearly paint the villain.
I don’t want upset that the blade could be bleed as you said my biggest complaint was that it was too quick. In every other media we’ve seen bleeding it takes a great effort.
I’m glad you’re comparing the Acolyte to Arcane. That way there is a say this idea can work, it just don’t use the message as an excuse for bad writing when it doesn’t work.
We aren’t sexist. We want a good written story. Stop thinking you guilt people into buying things by using a woman. If anything you are hurting the cause.
I think using your sexuality and gender to pressure others is disgusting. I mean your gender and sexuality is literally nobody's business so trying to weaponize it to threaten others is just gonna make people detest people who have similar labels but a different personality.
Honestly I agree, I love a good written female character who has flaws and is actually a person but so many shows don’t do that they make the female characters perfect and it’s so annoying
The difference between arcane and the acolyte about sisterly bond. Vi and jinx/powder once had a good sister bond: vi who is the oldest of the group will take the fall especially when jinx got in trouble. Jinx on the other hand, she has this mentality: abandonment issues and acceptance. When vi abandoned powder, she broke down and almost harming herself right before Silco came in the picture and took her under his wing. About I guess, 10 years later jinx still have the mentality even during that day. As soon as both the sisters reunited, jinx have this jealousy when she met Caitlyn. In her head, she thinks Caitlyn is stealing or replacing her with vi. She even go out of her way to kill Caitlyn and even silco just be with vi. Also in the end (spoilers) jinx killed the councils. Idk much about the acolyte, I only heard what the fans say about between osha and mai. Since childhood, mai was a sociopath as a girl and pretty much killed the entire covenant just because osha wants to be a Jedi. Idk, I still that story arc seems a bit eh 🤷♀️ At least, jinx admits that what she did was wrong. Unlike mai, who constantly blamed her sister for she did.
I don’t think she cared if Caitlyn died (though she wouldn't mind). Vi saying "She's my sister" and "We can just go" reached Jinx the most (in regards to Vi) because it wasn't her picking between Powder or Jinx but simply choosing her as is. When Jinx asked her to shoot Caitlyn it was to get specifically powder back and I think she wanted an "I just chose you (Pikachu)" moment and what upset her most was Vi saying "I can't" insinuating she would choose and it would be Powder not Jinx or simply her as is if Caitlyn wasn't the price. The reason I think Caitlyn is still alive is that Vi needs to choose Jinx and not simply because the other option is gone, she doesn't care if she lives or dies (though probably prefers death) just that she needs definite proof that Jinx means more to Vi than her. She shot silco for endangering vi but largely she was operating on instinct sense she was having a psychosis episode which is why she's in shock once she realizes. He gave her the acceptance as she is and not Jinx or Powder. Acceptance she was fishing for from vi. So she shoot the council as a "they can all burn, we will show them all" for Silco using the weapon.
I love how all these people's arguments fall appart with the mention of Arcane. You can have a series that is both diverse AND incredible? Who would've known?
There is a difference between moral ambiguity and just straight up backwards morality. A lot of stories lately seem to mistake the latter for the former.
I honestly think these people are idiots and/or sociopaths. They see that shows like Arcane are well received, so they want to emulate it, but they never understood it.
I believe that is bit of the inherent problem with this concept. It purposefully blurs the line. However, moral ambiguity and stories in general should encourage people. to overcome evil and not succumb to it. And star wars was always about good defeating evil. So i felt it was so strange when Osha joined the dark side I was wonderingn is this supposed to be a good thing.
To put simple, moral ambiguity : when you doing bad things for good. Self aware and ready being judged because gmbad things been you have noble intention. Moral backwards: doing evil for selfishness but claims it was good and not need denial own bad doings even they see what they did are evil. Hypocrite
When I first heard of the Acolyte, I was ready to give the show a chance, even if 90% of SW since Disney bought Lucasfilm was between bad and an insult to intelligence. And then I saw the interviews of the showrunner and the actors, and I knew that they didn't want to make a good show, but only push the political agenda and their fantasy. I still watched the 1st episode. Didn't go after, as it was so badly written that I didn't want to lose more time in it. What Lucasfilm and Disney did to SW is criminal, not only because SW was one of the most successful franchises, but mostly because SW became a part of the human culture, that touched people all around the world.
Its crazy to think in the space of less then 10 years Star Wars went from a world wide cultural event to a bunch of streaming shows no one watches 🙁 Disney/Kathleen should be ashamed.
I'm sure Disney bought Star Wars because they thought it would be a money printer--as it should have been. Too bad they didn't understand *why* it was a money printer.
3:04 I don’t think Vi was going to leave her. It looked like she walked a bit further from Powder trying to calm down and then wanted to get Powder, but then Silco showed up
Arcane really is the standard by which all modern writing should be judged. In addition to telling an amazing story with amazing characters steeped in nuance and depth, it also happens to feature many incredibly strong female characters and has pretty much every representation box checks. HAPPENS to have, being key, because none of that is the backdoor reason for writing it in the first place. It manages to fulfill everything the woke mob CLAIMS they want without shoving an agenda down people's throat (which is what the woke mob ACTUALLY wants). Arcane is really is exceptional on every single level. I feel lucky to have been alive when it was crafted. Can't wait for season 2!
I was commenting on a whole bunch of videos by a few different creators about the Arcane/Acolyte parallels, and that the former is the show that latter should've taken a whole lot of lessons from. So pleased to see someone make a video on this!
Specifically, inspired by her idealized version of Frozen that is a repressed lesbian incest story. Her real life sister will no longer speak to her, and that silence speaks VOLUMES in this context.
As a long time Star Wars fan that was turned off it throughout the Disney years, I looked to Arcane for something different. What a show. I sometime image what a Star Wars film or TV show would be like, if written and directed by the team that produced Arcane.
I had not considered that those two shows tell basically the same story. Insane how different the quality is. Arcane is so good that just watching clips from it still makes me teary-eyed even years later, while The Acolyte is completely unwatchable. Disney really screwed up in this one
You're so right, so well explained. Thank you. Leslye Headland looks like a Sith who lost his master. She really doesn't understand human relationships neither difference between duality and values. Spending her time to explain in interviews what she should have showed us in the screen reveals her incompetence. All that is a big waste of time and money.
Just to point this out. The witches were the ones who were attacking the Jedi in the first place. For pretty much no reason, after the Jedi had offered to just leave if they decided not to allow them to examine the twins. Instead they DID allow it and then tried to mind control one of the Jedi into killing the other ones for some reason. Which then backfire on them when another Jedi interrupted the process and most of the witches died as a result of that.
That one trailer of Star Wars the old republic with the Eternal Empire did a good and bad twin and a toxic evil father story better than The Acolyte. Honestly the writers and headland don’t understand the Jedi,Sith and the dark side at all they want there character has all the power but without the consequences looking Anakin journey going the dark side is not worth it. Star Wars has grey areas in the galaxy but it’s still about people choosing to be good or evil.
You know, I like that you made a comparison between Acolyte and Arcane. I like Arcane better because it is well written. I hope that the top brass of Disney can pay more attention and open up to different opinions so that their TV shows and movies are more successful.
People be complaining why essay maker keep compare anything to Arcane. Maybe because it is a peak example of a great show in our recent time?? Not to mention Arcane also tick all the 'boxes'. Yet it never feel forced or woke. When watching I never even think of those diversity because the story is so engaging.
The acolyte could’ve made the motive of the girl who didn’t want the other to leave, into something less selfish. If the girl had some knowledge or believes around the Jedi order about how their practice of taking kids and teaching them to so strictly control their emotions. Then she would of her actions would have been less shtty. Better yet she could have been given this info by a sith who is manipulating her to groom her into being they student. Idk their names so bare with me. But imagine if the sith girl was initially supportive of her sister but reluctant to be left alone. Then once the Jedi tells the Jedi girl that she can come with them, sith girl is approached by the sith who tells her about the jedis teachings. This leads to sith girl being more rebellious against Jedi girl leaving and she ends up still locking Jedi girl in her room but the fire will be a byproduct of this maybe an unattended candle or something that would have been prevented other wise, this allows the blame to still be placed sith girl and could also place the blame on Jedi girl depending on the origin of the unattended flame . This makes sith girl less outright malicious. Yet the Jedi girl could believe this was a selfish act by sith girl rather then being in what sith girl believes is in Jedi girls best interest. Then when the both fall they are saved by their future teachers jedi girl believing her sisters died and sith girl believing she was abandoned. This could make a story that compare the sith and jedi. Highlighting their similarities.
people dont hate diversity. we've all grown up with countless fantasy universes featuring countless alien civilizations with vibrant cultures. look at league of legends, look at all those vibrant clothing styles and characters. its the main reason people like the ip
Anyone who's ever worked in a place where one person somehow gets promoted again and again despite an obvious lack of talent and successive failures, recognizes what's happened with The Acolyte. That person gains prominence purely as a result of their superiors retiring or dying, and they inevitably import fourth rate talent who (a) won't threaten them and (b) reflect their own resentments and ambitions.
Arcane is for the viewers, Acolyte however is a show Leslye Headland created for herself, the mean theme is the "Message" everything else including LEGIT story is cast into the darkness.
correction: arcane is for the toxic fans of the toxic game (which is made by an even more toxic video game company who thinks there tough crap and all).
Current Disney never fails to disappoint me, especially when it comes to starwars. Wish disney would just make a what if for starwars or how the story of starkiller and Cal. Hopefully they don't ruin the next phase of mcu since deadpool was their saving grace
Even though Star Wars is a bit of a mess right now, I’m cautiously optimistic for the future. Kennedy might not care about it all that much, but Filoni does. And although not all of his projects have been perfect, I know he’ll give it his all for his Heir to the Empire movie. And even though the third season wasn’t as good, i absolutely love the first two seasons of the Mandalorian. So I am curious about the movie coming up. And then there’s Andor season two. So of course I’ll stick around for that. But after all of that, I think that’ll be enough Star Wars content for a lifetime, thank you very much.
Hmm, idk for sure. I love the stuff he did with the Clone Wars but I think he's kind of a one trick pony. He was able to validate the prequels for a lot of fans because there was great stuff in there, it was just bogged down with terrible writing on Lucas's part. My thing is, Lucas is an idea man, not a detail man. Dave is a detail man, not an idea man. I think he's in a little over his head but who knows? Maybe his movies will be good
Maybe. I’m just trying to be optimistic. And hey, Heir to the Empire is already a book. Maybe he can get some ideas from there. Whatever happens, his movie is probably where I’ll stop. As much as I love Star Wars, there has to come a time where you have to say enough is enough.
Acolyte was made under Filoni I also believe you are making Kennedy too much villian, I definetly she isn't running around and screamin "Put a chick in it and make her lame and gay!"
Maybe she is overhated, but she is definitely not blameless. And hey, maybe I am wrong about Filoni. Maybe his movie will be horrible. But like I said, I want to be optimistic. So let’s just hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
Dave filoni is more of Disney mind set, he doesn't understand half of what makes star wars itself, and is arrogant enough to take choices he never should had.
The funny thing is, the show has to add rules to the Jedai code to make some of them seem more evil. Like the whole "A jedai does not draw their weapon unless they intend to kill" That has never been a thing but it's used to try to imply that Sol and the first Jedai to die are more morally ambiguous. Add on the fact that Osha spends about 2 minutes mourning the loss of her friend before sexy boy Sith tells her that it's ok because he's sexier. Not to mention most of the first half shows that she's a genuinely good person but that's also supposed to go out the window when she becomes a Sith. May or the horned mother never get called out for being the ones to basically tell all the witches that they have to fight to the death, and the Sith master is never really compared to Sol when he manipulated May into being a killer and did much worse things then Sol but gets away with not being the one responsible for the death of Osha's mother. So the narrative just nods and says he's "better". Honestly, I kept asking myself why Osha didn't just kill the Sith guy and why she would go with him to train to be a sith and abandon her sister. Also the funniest part is they did all of this to try and make it all just Star Wars Frozen but at least it's not renewed for another season.
Here's a suggestion: Primal vs. Ark the animated series (yes, that dino turd). How did Primal succeed in the boy & his dog story, or in this case, Neanderthal and his T. Rex, whereas Ark failed.
@sfinkspl8003 Yup! And it was awful. It's like Castlevania Nocturne, another terrible video game adaptation. They've both may look good with the graphics and animation but completely fall apart with bad writing, unlikeable characters, poor grasp of the source material, and focusing too much on politics over characters & story.
It sounds like they're basically trolls doing the whole, "Oo, I'm so edgy, I'm going to pretend that evil is good" thing. It's boring and worn out. There are certainly ways they could address the morally gray areas in the Star Wars universe. Judging by the prequels, there were very good reasons that people were frustrated with the Republic and susceptible to Palpatine's machinations. Get into the fact that the Republic was not only allowing slavery to continue in the Outer Rim--they seem not to have cared one way or the other--but that they actively prevented Anakin from going back to do anything about it. Get into the fact that the Jedi have separated themselves so far from real life that they don't understand a kid who is worried about his mother, and who tell said kid that worrying about his mother is a path to the dark side. Get into the unchecked rage that can happen, which is attracted to the Sith. And, FFS, stop treating the Dark Side and the Light side as different entities. The whole point is that they are the two sides to power--one using it responsibly and mercifully, the other using it to lash out in rage or ambition. And absolutely point out that no one is immune from the temptations of the Dark Side. These are not two warring factions where both have good points. These are the essential pulls on the inside of every human (well, sentient, in the setting) heart. Will you do what is right? Or will you give in to the desire to hurt and destroy? The moral universe is not "complex." There is right and wrong. But every individual in it is complex, because there are reasons that they might go either way, and you can absolutely understand why Anakin went into a rage, even as you're saying, "No, stop."
I called people characters and real life people who believe they created a great worldview and philosophy on how the world works as (fake philosophers). Nowadays people don't understand the world maybe crazy and evil exists, but that does not mean we are supposed to join in their evil I believe this is because of the rise of moral relativism. As a Christian I personally have clear views what are good or evil. But even then we are taught the world faced many problems that you cant judge so quickly.
Disney can only dream of having a media where every single character is loved and hated by the audience while having such moral ambiguity that it leaves everyone confused before the finale and still conflicted after.
Arcane Ep 3 is Greek-level tragedy combined with first class artistic vision and voice-acting talent. Comparing it to a now canceled bottom tier Star Wars show feels unfair at this point.
Episode 3 is more season finale. And it was only episode bloody three. I'm not much of a crier, but I cried. I realized something. If you don't cry to that scene, you're a sociopath.
If Lesyle Headland with her comments about George Lucas made perfect clearly that she doesn't have any respect for George, why people still thinking that Acoytle could have been worked? Is kind of obvious that she didn't see Star Wars or didn't get it, just like David Gordon Green when he put Ellen Burstyn to say that stupid phrase in the Exorcist believer. If you hire someone who doesn't have any kind of respect for the original material, it can be hard that a good project came up.
the boys show doesn't hold respect for the original material and scrape of most of the original message, tell me to the face that it's a bad show i dare you
@@hasanmuttaqin464 At least the showrunner from that show didn't think that he was better than the original creator. Thing that Lesyle Headland did, the only impression that she gave me is that she was terrible envious of George Lucas. Why should I give a chance to someone who thinks that is better than the original creator and also shows that she's envious of him? A Good lesson to Disney, next time? Don't hire envious people.
Comparing Arcane to The Acolyte is like comparing the Joker in The Dark Knight to the Joker in Suicide Squad. Yah, it can be done...and I'll leave it there.
My understanding of the force: The force dosent have a lightside but it has a darkside. While the darkside will give you power, that power wont help you save the peapol you want and it will result in sadness witch lead to anger and that anger will keep you from happiness.
Hey, I really liked your material and your work in general. Could you (if you agree with my opinion) do a material why Qimir is a worse written villain than Kylo Ren? I'm really surprised that there are a lot of people on the Internet (especially on Twitter) who think that Qimir is not only a well-written character but is also a much better villain than the character of Kylo Ren from the sequels. To develop my thought, I will give a comparison to Qimir from Acolyte and Kylo Ren only from TFA. In part 7, Kylo is initially presented as Vader's successor who wants to continue his legacy and the very idea of the Empire. We know what he wants, which is a map to Luke. Then we learn that he is the son of Han and Leia and that he is responsible for another fall of the Jedi Order, which raises interesting questions, why Ben went to the other side of the force and whether he knows that his grandfather went to the light side of the force before his death. In the third act of the film we see how he kills his father and despite the conflict how far he is willing to go. Not to mention the fact that before the fight with Rey he is very scary and you feel a threat from him. On the other hand, Qimir is a character whose motivations we never know. Something says that the evil system discriminates against him as a user of the dark side of the force, but you don't care about that from the mouth of a cold murderer who we don't know about since he taught Mea, why he requires her to kill one Jedi without a weapon, why he wants to kill Jedi, how he recognizes Osha in episode 2, why he is so keen for her to join him and anyway what role does he have in this series
3:12, 5:53, Both sisters being treated as having responsibility in what went wrong, Power for her desperation to be accepted leaving her family destroyed and Vi for letting her rage and ego destroy their relationship, leaving Powder vulnerable to Silco. Both sides of a conflict being able to share responsibility in tragedies that occur is something the Acolyte doesn't fully understand, as it barely acknowledges the Brendok coven (and by extension, Mae) as having any responsibility for their questionable aspects, how wrong their jealousy and possessiveness towards their children was (their treatment of them as more like religious symbols than people), how them telepathically attacking Torbin contributed to the conflict, how they hypocritically weaponize their powers repeatedly despite claiming that isn't their purpose. The audience is intended to think only the Jedi have responsibility, that Mae only made harmless mistake because she "loved" Osha, that Osha being corrupted by rage and hatred for Sol in response to learning the truth is empowering, not a manipulation from Mae and Qimir to have her on their side. Osha mainly chose the Jedi to escape her possessive sister and the coven (conflating the goal of escape with the Jedi), and unlike the Mae or the coven, Osha is allowed to leave when she wants, is allowed peace that Mae ruins by indirectly dragging Osha into her mess, all of which she's just forgiven for. It's classic Darksider tendencies, ego, jealousy, spite, but treated as good, such as with the supposed "positive corruption arc" for Osha, and not part of the reason why the Brendok Coven lost everything, how them acting purely on desire, ego, fear, anger and hatred destroyed everything they had (and Mae somehow burning down a stone building). Even Aniseya is guilty of this, as she chose to transform into black Force ichor and provoke Sol into attacking to defend against this unknown ability, so it doesn't matter if she was going to release the girls because she didn't just say it when she easily could have). 8:27, Sol is in the wrong for getting too attached to the girls (and not just aiming his Force Grip at the girls and not the heavier platforms), girls that are so disinteresting to the audience that it's odd to see any character be so emotionally invested in them even with the unnatural nature of their existence, even if removing them from an abusive home wasn't a bad motivation, but when we the audience are expected to feel complete disgust and joy at his death and posthumous humiliation, than the creators simply fail to understand how to portray moral complexity or ambiguity, made even worse by how empty, overtly malevolent, uninteresting or annoying the characters we are intended to route for are, characters who are never really made to take any responsibility for their actions or flaws, characters the audience are meant to think are ultimately righteous and virtuous.
I could see an interesting show, where the jedi represent slow adherence to the status quo, and the sith are seen as those who act. Like a split between say, police and vigilantes. One is rigid, but generally has the moral high ground, the other can be seen as a necessary evil, but the innate... refusal to consider the perspectives of others and follow their own will leaves it ripe for power mad corruption, or simply delusion. Between those perspectives, could be a curious grey question of... well, the sith are clearly wrong but... how realistically was the system going to solve problem x.
You know a show is good when i cry like a baby because A VILLIAN DIED! Silcos death shouldn't have put a single tear in my eye but it did because buddy actually loved and cared for powder/jinx even if he also used her as a weapon. She was also the only person he trusted absolutely, to the point of her being able to listen in on his meetings and she draws on his ashtray and stuff 🥺 HOW CAN YOU BE SO EVIL YET SO CUTE
Also just seeing a Jedi express a motivation based on so much emotion doesn’t make any sense knowing what we know about Jedi in general. Also, I love Arcane. Such a fantastic show and I’m so excited for season 2
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
"Is there anything so undoing as a daughter?" is one of the most emotionally charged, genuinely heartfelt lines I've ever seen, heard, or read. The sadness, the pain, the recognition after ALL these years of what made Vander the way he was.
And in the latest season, Jinx can relate to that line too!
@milarose275 idk I feel like Isha was mainly intended to be like a little sister and reminder of Powder to Jinx.
@ yeah I agree! That doesn’t nullify my interpretation though, which is accurate. “Is there anything so undoing as a daughter”. Jinx has always been the little sibling responsible for no-one. Vander, Silco, Vi, they all had a ‘daughter’ to loose. She never did until Isha. So both interpretations actually work wonderfully together (I’m an English teacher and students get extra marks for multiple interpretations haha). The writers are so excellent at drawing parallels everywhere, I’m in constant awe at how many character foils, juxtapositions and parallels they manage to weave
@@gabblebabbles2017isha did in fact (apparently) see her as an elder sister/motherly figure, but to be fair family is undeniably the undoing of vander silco and by extension vi and jinx. Talk about generational trauma
@taterskins1033 The mere fact that I could hear the line being spoken as I watched the clip in this video speaks to it's staying power in my mind. Absolutely brilliant.
The 10 year old girl who voice acted Powder had more acting talent than the entire cast of this show combined.
The only redeeming actor was the one that did sol, originaly he didnt speak English and tried his Best with a shitty writing
I still wonder how she manages that crying scene.
How they got the pain out of that child was AMAZING! So heartbreaking 💔❤
@@emanuelbazandiaz4704that’s Lee jungjae. He was in squid game and was the main character.
@@hailey857no offense to the actor but he should’ve stayed in Korea, ain’t no good prospects in hollywood
Sooooo… what I’m hearing is that they completely ripped off Arcane and still failed miserably??
Yep. Pretty much.
Imagine ripping off one of Netflix's most anticipated animated series of the decade and failing miserably at it... I would never look at myself in the mirror if I were them.
@@claritycrystal8742 100% true pal.
@@claritycrystal8742I mean the showrunner was Harvie winestines secretary so she should have not able to live with herself after 2017
One of the writers claimed that Frozen was the inspiration and you can see that in the end with May becoming the Anna to Osha's Elsa but I don't know if that is worse or better.
Honestly, Arcane is a master at Moral Ambiguity. The only two characters who I can think of as entirely "good people" are Ekko and maybe Caitlyn (Season 2 will no doubt change that). The two best examples are probably the argument between Vi and Jayce, and the scene where Heimerdinger is kicked out. All of these characters have decent arguments and you can't disagree too strongly with either of them. That's what makes Arcane special, the characters act like people would.
Totally agree, the characters in Arcane are so complex and interconnected with each other that while watching conflict happening I honestly can not think of any immediate best solution to the problem. I felt as stuck as the characters themselves.
There's also Viktor.
Ekko is debatable, imho, because he essentially uses gang violence (aka evil means) to achieve noble goals (stopping Silco and his thugs). The first time we see him and his Fireflies, they're essentially doing the equivalent of a drive-by.
@Nr4747 Wouldn't say that. They're freedom fighters who rarely employ violence and when they do, they use non-lethal weapons like crystal bombs and flares.
@benjaminthibieroz4155 Viktor is debatable due to how irresponsible he can be in his desperation.
The thing with Arcane is that the heroes may not always do heroic things and with the villains, even when they do shitty or morally bad things, you still fully understand why they're doing what they're doing. Like Vi is our protagonist and yet she not only hits her sister, calls her the thing that makes her insecure, and abandons her, even if it's not on purpose and even if you fully understand why she walks away. And this small act creates the monster of Jinx.
And the thing with Arcane is that you can't really fully hate anyone. Even Marcus, as reprehensible as some of the things he does are, when it comes to his daughter, you still feel immensely for him. Same with Silco, he's turning the Undercity into a drug invested wasteland, but at the same time, his motivations and anger make perfect sense and it's even more heartbreaking because he's the only person to truly love and accept Jinx as she is where her sister can't.
Arcane you can fully understand why everyone does what they do. In Acolyte, you're just baffled as to why people behave as they do.
I actually really love arcane cause all characters are understandable. I always watch people and try to understand why they do the things they do. I got autism so it's good practice to make sense of the world. And Arcane taught me so much about goals and motivations.
And then you got this show. This show makes me feel like how I feel just watching people with no particular context. It's not like you understand any motivation of anyone. It is ambiguous but not morally. It just doesn't explain it's own actions and motivations so you're left guessing. And since the human brain always thinks the worst first.... Yeah nothing good came out of it.
Thanks for respecting Marcus 😭 Not my favorite character but he still deserve some love
@@junrobin9335 Fellow tism! I also enjoyed Arcane bc of this aspect. It's like how I perceived the world had finally, marginally, been portrayed in a comprehensible way. I immediately understood and accepted the tragedies and ambiguity, whilst a lot of people seem still to be stuck in choosing sides.
In the most simplest sense: It is what it is.
Silco’s motives for taking in Powder are morally bad. He initially takes her in because he realizes that as an impressionable young child he can mold her and use her as he wants. His “love” isn’t a real love it’s a warped,corrupt, and toxic version of love he feels because he doesn’t truly understand what love is.
@@paige8453I have absolutely no idea how you came to that conclusion when the show gives evidence time and time again- though nuanced & brilliant writing, VA’s impeccable performances AND painfully detailed animation- that he _genuinely_ loved Jinx.
There was true care in the way he held her the first time; it was clear through his voice, mannerisms and actions that he identified with the feeling of abandonment and genuinely wanted to comfort her. He identified with her pain and wanted to protect her from it. There was ZERO benefit of taking in a (as far as he knew) useless orphaned child. He didn’t need to become a loving, understanding, protective dad to have someone to manipulate and mold. Even as she grew and continued to make weapons, the chaos she caused would not have been worth it _at all_ if he only took her in with ulterior motives. She was the weak link in his empire’s chain- everyone knew it, including him- but he never got more than irritated with her. Adopting her for any reason beyond genuine attachment doesn’t make any sense, _at all._
Whether he’s a good man is debatable, but I have no idea how people still think it’s debatable that he truly loved Jinx as a supportive father loves his daughter. She quickly became his everything.
I’ve seen this feeble argument too many times “Well, he’s a sociopath and sociopaths never feel love or empathy” and blah blah blah. I think a lot of people struggle with the fact that “normal” people can do “evil” things and that many, MANY “normal” people have sociopathic tendencies, but let’s say Silco has enough tendencies to be diagnosed with ASPD….
Some sociopaths CAN and DO feel love _and_ empathy. They’re not unfeeling machines that all go around hurting things for fun. My best friend for decades has ASPD and is _literally_ one of the most caring, supportive, thoughtful people I’ve ever known. Silco obviously had abandonment issues resulting from Vander’s betrayal that negatively effected how he loves, but that doesn’t mean his love is invalid or any less “real” than Vi’s or Vander’s. It is ignorant, close-minded and judgmental- and borderline egotistical- to pretend he didn’t/couldn’t feel or express (or even understand?!) “real love” just because he’s deeply hurt and flawed, just because it doesn’t match what you think “real love” should look like.
Edit- Don’t know why I forgot to add these pieces of undeniable evidence that Silco loved his daughter…
He was offered absolutely EVERYTHING he ever wanted- his entire life goal- and rejected it because he refused to betray his daughter. He even offers himself up, taking responsibility for her actions. She *literally k-lls him,* and he spends his literal last moments comforting her, wiping away her tears and lovingly cradling her face, telling her *she’s* perfect. Not “Jinx” is perfect or “Powder” is perfect, *she* is perfect, whoever she is and chooses to be. Those are actions of a man- a father- who TRULY understands _and_ feels what *real* love is.
According to Leslie, Sol deserves to die for being presumptive/paternalistic with Osha, but Anissa gets a pass for pushing witchery on her over protests, Horn-Mom never has it acknowledged she physically abused Mae & started a fight with the Jedi unilaterally, and Mae herself never admits nor gets called out for being creepy and possessive of her sister to the point of declaring she’d rather murder her than let her leave home, live her own life, or get an identity beyond “Mae’s wimp twin”.
For leftists, leftism is good because it leads to...more leftism. Leftists don't have objective standards or a higher authority. They measure themselves by themselves. Woke leftism is not a means to an end; it is the end. Its only goal is the realization of itself.
It's like trying to get everyone to wear yellow. Getting people to wear yellow doesn't make the world better. It only makes it yellower. That might make you happy if you like that color, but your own personal happiness is not the same thing as true progress. But for self-centered leftists and Sith, personal happiness and self-actualization are all that matter.
If Killmonger and Reva taught us anything, it is that being white is punishable by death, but gen**ide is alright as long as you're colored.
@@BroadMeadow-d9sand what exactly is true progres?
@@_greenrunner_ Depends. In general, though, it means accepting things you don't like and understanding that you don't know everything.
@@BroadMeadow-d9s twice the pride
double the fall
One of the biggest reasons moral ambiguity has gotten out of control is because it feels it has to exist at the expense of any and all virtue. Moral ambiguity by nature is not against virtue at all. Virtues are allowed to exist as long as they have genuine results to them. Princess Mononke is a brilliant example of this. Lady Eboshi wants to clear away a natural environment that is still populated, yes. But she does so because she wants to provide a safe haven for outcasts like lepers and prostitutes that were close to starving before she gave them a home and an occupation. In the end, both the humans and the forest lose out on what they set to achieve because they only thought to take or keep instead of giving in exchange, and they all have to start over having learned from their destructive actions.
I would even go a step further and say moral ambiguity requires virtue. Or rather, a conflict of virtues. Doing one good prevents doing another good
I think the current crop of writers somewhat think that just because the protagonist is taking action, that means it's automatically good, regardless of if there is actually virtue in their actions
Also she IS punished for her crimes, it's not like she don't learn her lesson and understand that utterly destroying the forest wouldn't help anyone
@LiNestHetalia Exactly. No one who isn't completely crazy would go through the hassle of losing a limb and decide not to reexamine their priorities.
You nailed it. Ambiguous or "grey" morality as it trends now is sadly mistaken as everyone being equally amoral. It's a mistake because it doesn't offer us lessons or reasons to root for main characters. Instead it is in its best form a clash of moralities. People trying to achieve what they deem good based on their experience and believes despite their flaws and harsh conditions, but ultimately fight each other because their goals aren't compatible, or more tragically they fail to see how they could be.
I love Princess Mononoke for that. No side is wrong, just pressured by the same inescapable reality of war. Ashitaka's greatness as a character is trying to understand both sides and lead them to a compromise.
to create good moral ambiguity story, one need to understand about moral itself. how could new writers understand that when they grew up with stories full of moral ambiguity and no one ever truly explain the clear lines to them? some are smart enough to understand by themselves, but most are not. young people nowadays grow up being taught by incompetent teacher, how should we expect anything good comes out with these kind of circumstances..
Acolyte is not morally ambiguous, it's morally warped: Good is bad, Bad is good.
This!
From a certain point of view.
thing I love about Arcane is that we all over the world come from different places....I come from an oppressed country that was nearly entirely killed off and our culture destroyed...we won our independance over 50 years because we fougght HARD , we needed people like Silco and Sevika.... people like Vander did nothing.... but there is a huge part of tthe people who think that Vander was the perfect guy...no he wasnt...he didnt care that his people are being oppressed and poisoned , if you have an enemy that is soo horrible against your people then you need to fight back just as hard ...thats just my opinion but most people come from pieceful countries who dont know war and see things entirely differently...they have this understanding that you can win your independance while working with your oppressor...trust me you cant, they just continue to exploit you ...until you dont let them anymore
@@HK-gm8pe I'm from a peaceful country so I don't have any experiences with situations like this but I too thought that Vander despite being a great guy and having his reasons for acting the way he does is far from perfect, allowing his people to be oppressed and starving. I also don't like how Silco is going about things, treating the people of the undercity as replaceable and creating mass addictions, but he is doing this with an actual good goal in mind. And that's the tragic and (from a writing standpoint) brilliant thing about this. There is no moral purity when in a situation like this. You can either allow things to get worse or do immoral things to try to make things better. Ekko and the firelights are probably the closest to being "good". They try to create a space where they are (relatively) safe and can flourish, protecting themselves from the oppression of the enforcers while also taking care of each other and not viewing their members as replaceable or harming themselves or each other for the greater good. Vander is probably wrong that no one wins in war, but he is right that everyone loses
You’re absolutely right. It reminds me of that Bible verse:
Isaiah 5:20
New International Version
20 Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.
The appalling message of this show and comments from the creator turned me off from Acolyte completely.
Arcane also has a diverse cast of characters, as the Acolyte tries to make its selling point on its diversity, Arcane actually writes their characters good and complex with their own morals and conflicts . There’s complexity to them, while The Acolyte tries and fails at writing complex characters, their approach is contradictory from their dialogue and their actions. The Acolyte failed where Arcane succeeded.
This.
I think this is the difference between having diversity and being "woke."
Diversity is just that. Diversity.
"Woke" is when you try to make diversity your only/biggest selling point
@@michaelthecinebro I wasn’t calling it woke or anything, I was pointing how The Acolyte tried to sell off the show on it diverse cast rather than the story itself.
@@michaelthecinebromaking that as their selling point and only characteristic
@@michaelthecinebro what people put out in the gaming space, the fake diversity and people pushing a social agenda to fit their narrative which is causing a disconnect from the audiences.
With Arcane they give nuance and know how to write to make the characters feel real, like they are real human beings showing you their story in another world. Shows like Acolyte and stuff flowing with this, which is all for pushing what the companies envision and not what the audience wants. Arcane is a beautiful show, and I can't wait for where Christian Linke, Alex Yee, and Amanda Overton are talented and gifted writers I can learn from. And curious where they are going to take season 2 and beyond Piltover and Zaun. Yes Season 2 is the last season we will see of Vi, Jinx Caitlyn and those champions of their stories as they explore a new world in League of Legends in future installments of this show.
This is a great point. You can write in every race in the world into your story but if none of them are fleshed out, real characters, then you still don't have *any* diverse characters in your script.
In Arcane I knew that there was no chance that Jinx would go back to being Powder, yet i was still on the edge of my seat till the end. That's a true engaging story
How we feeling after season 2 my friend?
@WickedHumor S2 was insanely good, I didn't think they could redeem Jinx in a beleivable way. The victor hextec Jesus arc was a bit weird but it was payed off perfectly
The Acolyte is so bad, it made the sequel trilogy look like a masterpiece
Honestly yeah. It combines the worst aspects of the sequels and the prequels to create a bottomless pit of awfulness.
@@michaelthecinebro Well, in case of Clone Wars - Republic IS a tyranny toward CIS. There is no democracy (well it is on paper only) in Republic (instead mega corps are in charge) - it just rich, fat core Worlds want continue to subjugate and continue to parasite on The outer ring worlds (or genuinely dont care to protect them against pirates and bandits )
.
CIS on contrast did not want to "rule the galaxy" - they just want to become independent nation (well, there are more nuances on both sides but this is your core goals)
.
And it hilarious how after Empire creation, we saw that CIS were right and they were a good guys there
SEQUELS BAD!! HAHAHAHAHABABA 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I agree
No I can't let you say that... The sequel stays horrible
The romanticisation of the Sith and them “walking off into the sunset” is like an edgy murder hobo rogue in DnD claiming to be chaotic good.
Maybe the biggest thing Arcane does perfectly is introduce us to a sweet, innocent, likeable little girl who just wants to help her sister, then turns her into a monster we can sympthize with.
See that’s the issue. There is zero ambiguity in the Sith. While you can argue the ambiguity of the dark side on a greater scal since different groups engage with the dark side differently, the Sith and their fundamental ideology is inherently corrupt and has no ambiguity. It is as every bit as evil as the Jedi think, and that’s embodied by Palpatine who embodies that ideology to his very core.
Exactly. Again, I think you could play with this concept. Especially with the codes of the Jedi not being able to form attachments or have emotions and the Sith doing whatever they want when they want. I think there's a balance between the two extremes you could explore but they did it so badly.
@@michaelthecinebroFun fact the writer of the Sith code got it inspiration from a Nazi book.
And witches are was more moraly grey with laying more on dark side of force. Now acolyte made them just bitches
@@michaelthecinebro there was a really interesting video about how the jedi and the force where presented in the original trilogy. Fundamentally, The Good Side of the Force is simply armony. A connection between everything. Everything is the same in the force. And the magic was that everyone could do it. Good Force was relationship and empathy and acceptance, even of death itself. That's why jedi are presented as the old sage, the eremit who understand and help, that asks how are you. Dark side is disruption of armony, command through power and violence. And the point is there is no good dark side of the force. Ah, it was a video about the misunderstand of grey jedi. So if you use the dark side, you cause disruption. Balance is not between light and dark side. Balance is light. It was all caused by a problem of words.
@@michaelthecinebro Someone actually analyzed the Jedi through the BITE model (used to determine if something is a cult or not). The Jedi tested positive on every single prong of the BITE model.
You gave the disclaimer, but I still winced every time you said Zion.
I cried when Silco sang "Let my people go"
and their citizens the zionites
Zion, Pill Lover, Nexus, Demarcial, The Voice.
I can get people liking and understanding villains...but having Leslye identify with a villain that is bad "just because I want to use my power however I want" is concerning and disgusting.
I mean, she worked for Harvey Weinstein.
Arcane question: "Who's in the wrong?"
The Acolyte question: "Who gives a f?"
As a League of Legends player who already knew the lore of these characters, I was genuinely floored by how well written Arcane was.
I've always loved movies and stuff, yet Arcane, a show based on a game with pretty limited and mediocre lore, might be the best written origin story of already existing material I've ever seen.
Never thought I'd enjoy a show based on a game I had love/hate relationship with.
Remember when the terrorist attack was blamed on Ahsoka in the Clone Wars? They still mostly treated her as one of them. Meanwhile here there are clear Jedi code violations and Grandmaster Yoda just allows it?! The strongest Jedi (aside from Anakin) didn't sense THIS MUCH of disturbance in the Force but he felt the massacre of the Jedi Order during Order 66, when the Dark side literally suppressed the senses of the Jedi? And what about Mundi, he has dementia now?
I don't need answers to these questions, anything after the Finale of the Clone Wars is fanfic to me (because it is)
And the movies end at the OG trilogy
Agreed. But I do like Andor though 😅
@@michaelthecinebro I'm not opposed to some series. But since I don't watch them I can't talk about those. Besides, everyone can like anything as long as it is not forced to the others
can't help but wonder what are these jedi code violations you're reffering to, it is not in character to actively ignore them.
@@thephoenix4093 in the Acolyte they could've reported any time that there may be a Sith or an evil Force user yet they decided to rush him. And Jedi shouldn't work as authority figures yet here they are not only working as a plice or military force in this series but most of them corrupt as hell. Yes, the Jedi was corrupt in RoTS but it was because they though for 3 years in a galaxy wide war, what is the reason in this past for that corruption to appear? And don't get me started on the so called meta rules George Lucas created like there's sound in space yet there's a scene in the Last Jedi where there's no sound for 10 seconds straight
I was placing bets on when I'd see an Acolyte comparison to Arcane using the latter as the "this is how you do it" example. I've been using Arcane (and been evangelically recommending Arcane) as "So...this is how you do siblings on the other side of the war" etc. Thank you for doing this!
You're welcome!
Bro can't even properly pronounce "Zaun".
@@corporateturtle6005 He mixed up the name with another one, give him a break.
@@corporateturtle6005bro didn't read the addendum in the video
One actor involved with The Acolyte show said the best part about Star Wars is that there is no good or evil, which I and a lot of other people found to be cringe, which George Lucas literally said Star Wars was about if I were a good person or not.
That's what you get when you put people in charge of projects who reject canon. Marvel is in the same boat with all their creative lead choices for their more recent movies/shows.
I love how video essays often references/uses arcane as a comparison.
It just goes to show how well written and thought out that show is.
12:18 - the original meaning between dark and light side was very moral, not just stylistic. In short it's about how you motivate yourself. Dark side is about motivating yourself to destroy others, being better than them, while light side is about motivating yourself to help others, become the best version of yourself. Dark side is faster, but as it's fuel is hate and revenge, it leads to only more pain and suffering, while light side, fuelled by love for one self leads to more love. I think that was the original meaning behind Dark and Light side.
And this depiction is consistent with other Dark Side-centric perspectives like in Clone Wars and The Old Republic, where some Darksiders may have more reasonable or sympathetic motivations, such as ending corruption or defeating someone objectively worse than themselves, but their unfiltered ambition and vengeance comes at the expense of others around them, as ambition devolves into jealousy and greed, which eventually destroys those reasonable and sympathetic motivations and replaces them with the desire for power and the will to simply survive the corruption around them.
Darksiders like Palpatine are the strongest because they fully act on greed and ego and are willing to sacrifice anything to have power.
The Dark Side is not something that can be used for good for long, as it is innately destructive and chaotic, and it brings out savagery and malice in those that channel it.
@@callmev3531 “Power does not come to those who are fastest or strongest. It comes to those who will do _anything_ to achieve it.” -Silco
@@callmev3531In essence, the Dark Side is basically the Ring of Sauron. You can try to use it's powers for good, and you might even suceed at first, but eventually you WILL be corrupted.
@@johannesseyfried7933 , Pretty much yeah, like the One Ring, the Dark Side eventually is the thing using whoever channels it, not the other way around.
But that's another thing, at best, it's only shown to be situationally or temporarily beneficial, like say, Starkiller (who's innately stronger than most Force-sensitives because of the implied reason that both his parents were Force-sensitives) leading a one man war against Imperials, but eventually he (and we, the player) have to choose not to let the desire to punish Vader jeopardize his goal of rescuing the Rebels and sacrificing himself to secure that their efforts to defeat the Empire both militarily and politically, otherwise Starkiller will end up dooming any chance of the galaxy being rid of Palpatine's tyranny.
This theme is also brought up in Andor, of traditional Dark Side concepts of fear, anger and hatred being situationally beneficial, but detrimental in long run as it become paired with ego, jealousy and greed (which in a way is the real path to the Dark Side, being unwilling or unable to separate subjective experience from objective reality, with individual emotions and desires becoming more important than anything at the expense of the individual and those around them), as we see Rebels use people's fear, anger and hatred toward the Empire just as we see hope, compassion and love inspiring people to fight even if only to ensure someone else gets to be free of them Empire, but with Rebels like Saw Guerrera, his vendetta against the government is all his cares about, no matter who gets hurt, which only gives the Empire more ammunition to rally the public in their favor to deal with those "pesky insurgents".
For a regular person, being able to regulate their emotions and ego may not always have wide-spanning consequences, but for a Force-sensitive with psychic abilities, mythic status and even political station depending on the time period, the burden they carry is greater than most even with the danger of the power they use eventually using them if they lack the wisdom and willpower to recognize it and resist, which not all of them do.
THANK YOU. I've been saying since the 3rd episode that this is ARCANE if the writing and cinematography was SHIT 💀
This comment make me wanna watch the show just for the giggle lol
well arcane's writing isn't that good either.
@@ryanmatthews3609 bro 💀 every second of Acoshyte was torture to watch. I've rewatched Arcane 3-4 times
@@ryanmatthews3609L opinion 🥱
@@ryanmatthews3609couldn’t be more wrong 😂
Huh, apparently if you want the audience to feel sorry for separated siblings or interested in the side character’s motivations, you give the siblings a reason to separate and the side character a reason for his motivation. Who knew?
I fucking love how every video explaining good writing has arcane has the correct example
Trying to portray the dark side as a good thing is like attempting to justify the use of chaos in Warhammer. Just a picture of it is all you need to know.
These psychos would try to argue the Dark Eldar aren't so bad because
"They HAVE to do those things, it's saving their actual souls."
..... Yeah..... It's still fucked up.
People that don't know are lost, but we know what's fucked up. That's fucked up.
I could see a competent showrunner being able to put some nuance in the sith.
Headland is not competent at this by any stretch of the imagination.
@@NinjaFlibble that already exists, it's called Knights of the Old Republic. It's the last era Disney hasn't gotten around to ruining yet.
@@haku8135
Let's hope they don't.
Can see them tried to justify the Chaos god now
After about a decade and a half of GMing tabletop roleplay games for other people, I think I have come to the conclusion that we seem to have forgotten at least one key aspect of "moral ambiguity", Machiavellian types and manipulative characters; motivation.
Morally ambiguous people don't do morally ambiguous things because "reasons". They do them because they see them as the path of least resistance to their goal.
And when these characters do not have a well established goal to be morally ambiguous about, they come out as petty or pointless.
Arcane: "everyone is driven by conflicting desires and having to choose between them can be painful"
Acolyte: "everybody is a jerk. Isn't that an interesting literary idea?"
Arcane is basically Game of Thrones and I love it, tho... the pacing could be a little slower, imho
Arcane is how basically everything should be done. It's on point, compact, deep, technically flawless and emotionally and narratively sound. I couldn't find any single thing that would undermine its beauty. And I'm usually really critical.
The Clone Wars cartoon is better than acolyte tv series.
Well of course!
Pretty much ANYTHING is better than The Acolyte…
@@lolfreakwaca4328Go watch wrestling
Honestly, Arcane should be a case study on story writing. I was hesitant watching the show, because I don't play LoL, and didn't know wether I'd like this animation style. I only watched it because people seemed to rate it highly. For 9 episodes of 20-25mins, it does everything it needs to do. I have it rated 10/10 on my rating list, and I rate almost everything between 4 and 7. It's rare for me to rate movies and shows 8 or 9, but this show just does everything well. It's hard to find something where you end up binging it, but this show I binged.
They kinda massacred my boy Sol in the writing, suddenly from episode 6 onwards, the show was trying to steer us to like the Sith and despise Sol. It really ruins the ambiguity thing when the writing clearly paint the villain.
You wanna tell me you watched this????
You said Jason mendoza, and I was like, "That's not his name.... ooohhhh"
😂 little Good Place reference
A lightsaber doesn't go red when your angry, is a meditation where you force your pain and rage onto the saber. It's a big deal
I don’t want upset that the blade could be bleed as you said my biggest complaint was that it was too quick. In every other media we’ve seen bleeding it takes a great effort.
I’m glad you’re comparing the Acolyte to Arcane. That way there is a say this idea can work, it just don’t use the message as an excuse for bad writing when it doesn’t work.
We aren’t sexist. We want a good written story. Stop thinking you guilt people into buying things by using a woman. If anything you are hurting the cause.
I think using your sexuality and gender to pressure others is disgusting. I mean your gender and sexuality is literally nobody's business so trying to weaponize it to threaten others is just gonna make people detest people who have similar labels but a different personality.
Honestly I agree, I love a good written female character who has flaws and is actually a person but so many shows don’t do that they make the female characters perfect and it’s so annoying
overuse of sexist or racist is not helping their case.
Just finished Arcane yesterday again and still get goosebumbs with your recap. Its amazing on so many levels
The difference between arcane and the acolyte about sisterly bond. Vi and jinx/powder once had a good sister bond: vi who is the oldest of the group will take the fall especially when jinx got in trouble. Jinx on the other hand, she has this mentality: abandonment issues and acceptance. When vi abandoned powder, she broke down and almost harming herself right before Silco came in the picture and took her under his wing. About I guess, 10 years later jinx still have the mentality even during that day. As soon as both the sisters reunited, jinx have this jealousy when she met Caitlyn. In her head, she thinks Caitlyn is stealing or replacing her with vi. She even go out of her way to kill Caitlyn and even silco just be with vi. Also in the end (spoilers) jinx killed the councils.
Idk much about the acolyte, I only heard what the fans say about between osha and mai. Since childhood, mai was a sociopath as a girl and pretty much killed the entire covenant just because osha wants to be a Jedi. Idk, I still that story arc seems a bit eh 🤷♀️
At least, jinx admits that what she did was wrong. Unlike mai, who constantly blamed her sister for she did.
I don’t think she cared if Caitlyn died (though she wouldn't mind). Vi saying "She's my sister" and "We can just go" reached Jinx the most (in regards to Vi) because it wasn't her picking between Powder or Jinx but simply choosing her as is. When Jinx asked her to shoot Caitlyn it was to get specifically powder back and I think she wanted an "I just chose you (Pikachu)" moment and what upset her most was Vi saying "I can't" insinuating she would choose and it would be Powder not Jinx or simply her as is if Caitlyn wasn't the price. The reason I think Caitlyn is still alive is that Vi needs to choose Jinx and not simply because the other option is gone, she doesn't care if she lives or dies (though probably prefers death) just that she needs definite proof that Jinx means more to Vi than her. She shot silco for endangering vi but largely she was operating on instinct sense she was having a psychosis episode which is why she's in shock once she realizes. He gave her the acceptance as she is and not Jinx or Powder. Acceptance she was fishing for from vi. So she shoot the council as a "they can all burn, we will show them all" for Silco using the weapon.
I love how all these people's arguments fall appart with the mention of Arcane. You can have a series that is both diverse AND incredible? Who would've known?
There is a difference between moral ambiguity and just straight up backwards morality. A lot of stories lately seem to mistake the latter for the former.
I honestly think these people are idiots and/or sociopaths. They see that shows like Arcane are well received, so they want to emulate it, but they never understood it.
I believe that is bit of the inherent problem with this concept. It purposefully blurs the line. However, moral ambiguity and stories in general should encourage people. to overcome evil and not succumb to it. And star wars was always about good defeating evil. So i felt it was so strange when Osha joined the dark side I was wonderingn is this supposed to be a good thing.
To put simple, moral ambiguity : when you doing bad things for good. Self aware and ready being judged because gmbad things been you have noble intention.
Moral backwards: doing evil for selfishness but claims it was good and not need denial own bad doings even they see what they did are evil. Hypocrite
When I first heard of the Acolyte, I was ready to give the show a chance, even if 90% of SW since Disney bought Lucasfilm was between bad and an insult to intelligence.
And then I saw the interviews of the showrunner and the actors, and I knew that they didn't want to make a good show, but only push the political agenda and their fantasy. I still watched the 1st episode. Didn't go after, as it was so badly written that I didn't want to lose more time in it.
What Lucasfilm and Disney did to SW is criminal, not only because SW was one of the most successful franchises, but mostly because SW became a part of the human culture, that touched people all around the world.
Its crazy to think in the space of less then 10 years Star Wars went from a world wide cultural event to a bunch of streaming shows no one watches 🙁
Disney/Kathleen should be ashamed.
Hell I had heard rumors that people smuggled out and it painted a horror story of a messy development.
I'm sure Disney bought Star Wars because they thought it would be a money printer--as it should have been. Too bad they didn't understand *why* it was a money printer.
The problem with writers, like Hollywood's, is their insecurity, and they display it on film or TV shows. Acolyte is definitely one of them.
They display it but lie and say it's other peoples fault
@michaelthecinefile That wouldn't be a surprise in that analogy, and anyone can be blamed to whomever was part of the film/TV show project.
@@CamSiv996 same with arcane
Putting Acolyte and Arcane in one video feels almost like a crime.
3:04 I don’t think Vi was going to leave her. It looked like she walked a bit further from
Powder trying to calm down and then wanted to get Powder, but then Silco showed up
Arcane really is the standard by which all modern writing should be judged. In addition to telling an amazing story with amazing characters steeped in nuance and depth, it also happens to feature many incredibly strong female characters and has pretty much every representation box checks. HAPPENS to have, being key, because none of that is the backdoor reason for writing it in the first place. It manages to fulfill everything the woke mob CLAIMS they want without shoving an agenda down people's throat (which is what the woke mob ACTUALLY wants).
Arcane is really is exceptional on every single level. I feel lucky to have been alive when it was crafted. Can't wait for season 2!
I was commenting on a whole bunch of videos by a few different creators about the Arcane/Acolyte parallels, and that the former is the show that latter should've taken a whole lot of lessons from. So pleased to see someone make a video on this!
Leslie said she was inspired by Frozen 😂
Specifically, inspired by her idealized version of Frozen that is a repressed lesbian incest story. Her real life sister will no longer speak to her, and that silence speaks VOLUMES in this context.
I mean I don't really see anything wrong with that,the problem is how she phrased how Frozen inspired her...😕 (it's extremely sus)
how is frozen relates anything to SW??
As a long time Star Wars fan that was turned off it throughout the Disney years, I looked to Arcane for something different. What a show. I sometime image what a Star Wars film or TV show would be like, if written and directed by the team that produced Arcane.
I had not considered that those two shows tell basically the same story.
Insane how different the quality is. Arcane is so good that just watching clips from it still makes me teary-eyed even years later, while The Acolyte is completely unwatchable. Disney really screwed up in this one
You're so right, so well explained. Thank you. Leslye Headland looks like a Sith who lost his master. She really doesn't understand human relationships neither difference between duality and values. Spending her time to explain in interviews what she should have showed us in the screen reveals her incompetence. All that is a big waste of time and money.
Lesley making the sith in the acolytes seem like the good guys tells alot about her own motal stance
Just to point this out. The witches were the ones who were attacking the Jedi in the first place. For pretty much no reason, after the Jedi had offered to just leave if they decided not to allow them to examine the twins. Instead they DID allow it and then tried to mind control one of the Jedi into killing the other ones for some reason.
Which then backfire on them when another Jedi interrupted the process and most of the witches died as a result of that.
7:38 no way you just snuck that in so naturally. Even got the “never gonna make you cry” part in there
I’ve been waiting for you to comment on the Acolyte… and this did not disappoint 🔥
I did! Hardest 8 hours of my life 😦
unlike the show🔥🔥🔥🔥
That one trailer of Star Wars the old republic with the Eternal Empire did a good and bad twin and a toxic evil father story better than The Acolyte. Honestly the writers and headland don’t understand the Jedi,Sith and the dark side at all they want there character has all the power but without the consequences looking Anakin journey going the dark side is not worth it. Star Wars has grey areas in the galaxy but it’s still about people choosing to be good or evil.
You are saying that the person who worked closely with Epstien and who may have turned a blind eye to his dubious
deeds is a Morally bankrupt person.
She worked with Weinstein. Who is just as bad.
Mando season 3 was ruined, because they thought Mando having the darksaber meant he was taking a position from a woman on the corporate ladder
U can’t compare piss and orange juice just because they both have water
You know, I like that you made a comparison between Acolyte and Arcane. I like Arcane better because it is well written. I hope that the top brass of Disney can pay more attention and open up to different opinions so that their TV shows and movies are more successful.
please the writers at riot couldn't even bother to write which galaxy the main setting is in.
@@ryanmatthews3609 What do you mean?
@@alectong3393 they didn't even tell anyone which galaxy runeterra is located in.
@@ryanmatthews3609wdym "which galaxy"? What does that matter?
@@alex2005z i'm saying they never bothered explain where "runeterra" is despite being "science fantasy".
People be complaining why essay maker keep compare anything to Arcane. Maybe because it is a peak example of a great show in our recent time??
Not to mention Arcane also tick all the 'boxes'. Yet it never feel forced or woke. When watching I never even think of those diversity because the story is so engaging.
The morality of The Acolyte does beg the question: how does the showrunner view the crimes of her former boss?
This is very high quality content! Thank you for your hard work and efforts.
Thank you very much!
The acolyte could’ve made the motive of the girl who didn’t want the other to leave, into something less selfish. If the girl had some knowledge or believes around the Jedi order about how their practice of taking kids and teaching them to so strictly control their emotions. Then she would of her actions would have been less shtty. Better yet she could have been given this info by a sith who is manipulating her to groom her into being they student.
Idk their names so bare with me. But imagine if the sith girl was initially supportive of her sister but reluctant to be left alone. Then once the Jedi tells the Jedi girl that she can come with them, sith girl is approached by the sith who tells her about the jedis teachings. This leads to sith girl being more rebellious against Jedi girl leaving and she ends up still locking Jedi girl in her room but the fire will be a byproduct of this maybe an unattended candle or something that would have been prevented other wise, this allows the blame to still be placed sith girl and could also place the blame on Jedi girl depending on the origin of the unattended flame . This makes sith girl less outright malicious. Yet the Jedi girl could believe this was a selfish act by sith girl rather then being in what sith girl believes is in Jedi girls best interest. Then when the both fall they are saved by their future teachers jedi girl believing her sisters died and sith girl believing she was abandoned. This could make a story that compare the sith and jedi. Highlighting their similarities.
Arcane is such a masterpiece, my sister and I have never played LoL but we still cried when Silco died
Jinx's hatred was born from love. The two sisters in Acolyte seemed to never diaplay any strong emotions except for b*tchiness.
8:48 you know I remember another person who became obsessed with twins and would take them under his horrid wing…..I think he was German…..
Didn't he also have a monstrous kill count that gave him the demonic nickname the angel of death
I felt more for the Eternal Twins in the Old Republic trailer "Sacrafice" than I did in the entirety of this show. And that was only four minutes.
people dont hate diversity. we've all grown up with countless fantasy universes featuring countless alien civilizations with vibrant cultures.
look at league of legends, look at all those vibrant clothing styles and characters. its the main reason people like the ip
Comparing arcane to anything modern disney is like comparing a lion to a drawing of an orange cat by a 5-year old
it also important to remember that Vi was a kid herself too
Lol.
After watching season 2 of Arcane,
The 1st thing I thought of was how the this show succeeds where the Acolyte horribly failed.
As a 10+ years league player even with the disclaimer I twitched physically every time I heard Zion
same and I don't play league. No Idea why he couldn't be bothered to fix that.
Anyone who's ever worked in a place where one person somehow gets promoted again and again despite an obvious lack of talent and successive failures, recognizes what's happened with The Acolyte. That person gains prominence purely as a result of their superiors retiring or dying, and they inevitably import fourth rate talent who (a) won't threaten them and (b) reflect their own resentments and ambitions.
Arcane is for the viewers, Acolyte however is a show Leslye Headland created for herself, the mean theme is the "Message" everything else including LEGIT story is cast into the darkness.
correction: arcane is for the toxic fans of the toxic game (which is made by an even more toxic video game company who thinks there tough crap and all).
@@ryanmatthews3609 ok.
Every show some way is created for the creator first and foremost and viewers second. It seems you don't know much about how writers work.
@@playdoh658 it seems you're the one who doesn't know how writer's work, well at least real writer's not the Loony type.
Whole video is good, but I really like the analysis from around 11:30 on. great vid
Current Disney never fails to disappoint me, especially when it comes to starwars. Wish disney would just make a what if for starwars or how the story of starkiller and Cal. Hopefully they don't ruin the next phase of mcu since deadpool was their saving grace
Even though Star Wars is a bit of a mess right now, I’m cautiously optimistic for the future. Kennedy might not care about it all that much, but Filoni does. And although not all of his projects have been perfect, I know he’ll give it his all for his Heir to the Empire movie.
And even though the third season wasn’t as good, i absolutely love the first two seasons of the Mandalorian. So I am curious about the movie coming up.
And then there’s Andor season two. So of course I’ll stick around for that.
But after all of that, I think that’ll be enough Star Wars content for a lifetime, thank you very much.
Hmm, idk for sure.
I love the stuff he did with the Clone Wars but I think he's kind of a one trick pony. He was able to validate the prequels for a lot of fans because there was great stuff in there, it was just bogged down with terrible writing on Lucas's part.
My thing is, Lucas is an idea man, not a detail man. Dave is a detail man, not an idea man. I think he's in a little over his head but who knows? Maybe his movies will be good
Maybe. I’m just trying to be optimistic. And hey, Heir to the Empire is already a book. Maybe he can get some ideas from there.
Whatever happens, his movie is probably where I’ll stop. As much as I love Star Wars, there has to come a time where you have to say enough is enough.
Acolyte was made under Filoni
I also believe you are making Kennedy too much villian, I definetly she isn't running around and screamin "Put a chick in it and make her lame and gay!"
Maybe she is overhated, but she is definitely not blameless.
And hey, maybe I am wrong about Filoni. Maybe his movie will be horrible. But like I said, I want to be optimistic. So let’s just hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
Dave filoni is more of Disney mind set, he doesn't understand half of what makes star wars itself, and is arrogant enough to take choices he never should had.
Arcane = serie made with passion
Acolyte = serie made with DEI
Also Silco was a friend of her mother and up to a point the closest thing to an uncle before him and vander went their separate ways.
Powders hysterical weeping was more emotionally affecting in about 30 seconds than the entire Acolyte show
Arcane is just written well, takes it's time and visual storytelling just pushes this to excellency.
The funny thing is, the show has to add rules to the Jedai code to make some of them seem more evil. Like the whole "A jedai does not draw their weapon unless they intend to kill" That has never been a thing but it's used to try to imply that Sol and the first Jedai to die are more morally ambiguous. Add on the fact that Osha spends about 2 minutes mourning the loss of her friend before sexy boy Sith tells her that it's ok because he's sexier. Not to mention most of the first half shows that she's a genuinely good person but that's also supposed to go out the window when she becomes a Sith. May or the horned mother never get called out for being the ones to basically tell all the witches that they have to fight to the death, and the Sith master is never really compared to Sol when he manipulated May into being a killer and did much worse things then Sol but gets away with not being the one responsible for the death of Osha's mother. So the narrative just nods and says he's "better".
Honestly, I kept asking myself why Osha didn't just kill the Sith guy and why she would go with him to train to be a sith and abandon her sister. Also the funniest part is they did all of this to try and make it all just Star Wars Frozen but at least it's not renewed for another season.
Here's a suggestion: Primal vs. Ark the animated series (yes, that dino turd).
How did Primal succeed in the boy & his dog story, or in this case, Neanderthal and his T. Rex, whereas Ark failed.
Those are one my watchlists, its just a matter of getting to them in time
@@michaelthecinebro You can do it! As my aunt always said, “you’ll get there when you get there”.
Wait... Ark has animated series?
@sfinkspl8003 Yup! And it was awful. It's like Castlevania Nocturne, another terrible video game adaptation. They've both may look good with the graphics and animation but completely fall apart with bad writing, unlikeable characters, poor grasp of the source material, and focusing too much on politics over characters & story.
It sounds like they're basically trolls doing the whole, "Oo, I'm so edgy, I'm going to pretend that evil is good" thing. It's boring and worn out.
There are certainly ways they could address the morally gray areas in the Star Wars universe. Judging by the prequels, there were very good reasons that people were frustrated with the Republic and susceptible to Palpatine's machinations. Get into the fact that the Republic was not only allowing slavery to continue in the Outer Rim--they seem not to have cared one way or the other--but that they actively prevented Anakin from going back to do anything about it. Get into the fact that the Jedi have separated themselves so far from real life that they don't understand a kid who is worried about his mother, and who tell said kid that worrying about his mother is a path to the dark side. Get into the unchecked rage that can happen, which is attracted to the Sith.
And, FFS, stop treating the Dark Side and the Light side as different entities. The whole point is that they are the two sides to power--one using it responsibly and mercifully, the other using it to lash out in rage or ambition. And absolutely point out that no one is immune from the temptations of the Dark Side. These are not two warring factions where both have good points. These are the essential pulls on the inside of every human (well, sentient, in the setting) heart. Will you do what is right? Or will you give in to the desire to hurt and destroy? The moral universe is not "complex." There is right and wrong. But every individual in it is complex, because there are reasons that they might go either way, and you can absolutely understand why Anakin went into a rage, even as you're saying, "No, stop."
I called people characters and real life people who believe they created a great worldview and philosophy on how the world works as (fake philosophers).
Nowadays people don't understand the world maybe crazy and evil exists, but that does not mean we are supposed to join in their evil
I believe this is because of the rise of moral relativism. As a Christian I personally have clear views what are good or evil. But even then we are taught the world faced many problems that you cant judge so quickly.
"A clear Moral Line of what is Good and Evil." My compliments for a good defintition.
Disney can only dream of having a media where every single character is loved and hated by the audience while having such moral ambiguity that it leaves everyone confused before the finale and still conflicted after.
Arcane Ep 3 is Greek-level tragedy combined with first class artistic vision and voice-acting talent. Comparing it to a now canceled bottom tier Star Wars show feels unfair at this point.
Episode 3 is more season finale. And it was only episode bloody three. I'm not much of a crier, but I cried. I realized something. If you don't cry to that scene, you're a sociopath.
If Lesyle Headland with her comments about George Lucas made perfect clearly that she doesn't have any respect for George, why people still thinking that Acoytle could have been worked? Is kind of obvious that she didn't see Star Wars or didn't get it, just like David Gordon Green when he put Ellen Burstyn to say that stupid phrase in the Exorcist believer.
If you hire someone who doesn't have any kind of respect for the original material, it can be hard that a good project came up.
the boys show doesn't hold respect for the original material and scrape of most of the original message, tell me to the face that it's a bad show i dare you
@@hasanmuttaqin464 At least the showrunner from that show didn't think that he was better than the original creator. Thing that Lesyle Headland did, the only impression that she gave me is that she was terrible envious of George Lucas.
Why should I give a chance to someone who thinks that is better than the original creator and also shows that she's envious of him?
A Good lesson to Disney, next time? Don't hire envious people.
Comparing Arcane to The Acolyte is like comparing the Joker in The Dark Knight to the Joker in Suicide Squad. Yah, it can be done...and I'll leave it there.
My understanding of the force:
The force dosent have a lightside but it has a darkside. While the darkside will give you power, that power wont help you save the peapol you want and it will result in sadness witch lead to anger and that anger will keep you from happiness.
the way you say Zi-on makes it feel so intentional XD
Hey, I really liked your material and your work in general. Could you (if you agree with my opinion) do a material why Qimir is a worse written villain than Kylo Ren? I'm really surprised that there are a lot of people on the Internet (especially on Twitter) who think that Qimir is not only a well-written character but is also a much better villain than the character of Kylo Ren from the sequels. To develop my thought, I will give a comparison to Qimir from Acolyte and Kylo Ren only from TFA. In part 7, Kylo is initially presented as Vader's successor who wants to continue his legacy and the very idea of the Empire. We know what he wants, which is a map to Luke. Then we learn that he is the son of Han and Leia and that he is responsible for another fall of the Jedi Order, which raises interesting questions, why Ben went to the other side of the force and whether he knows that his grandfather went to the light side of the force before his death. In the third act of the film we see how he kills his father and despite the conflict how far he is willing to go. Not to mention the fact that before the fight with Rey he is very scary and you feel a threat from him. On the other hand, Qimir is a character whose motivations we never know. Something says that the evil system discriminates against him as a user of the dark side of the force, but you don't care about that from the mouth of a cold murderer who we don't know about since he taught Mea, why he requires her to kill one Jedi without a weapon, why he wants to kill Jedi, how he recognizes Osha in episode 2, why he is so keen for her to join him and anyway what role does he have in this series
3:12, 5:53, Both sisters being treated as having responsibility in what went wrong, Power for her desperation to be accepted leaving her family destroyed and Vi for letting her rage and ego destroy their relationship, leaving Powder vulnerable to Silco.
Both sides of a conflict being able to share responsibility in tragedies that occur is something the Acolyte doesn't fully understand, as it barely acknowledges the Brendok coven (and by extension, Mae) as having any responsibility for their questionable aspects, how wrong their jealousy and possessiveness towards their children was (their treatment of them as more like religious symbols than people), how them telepathically attacking Torbin contributed to the conflict, how they hypocritically weaponize their powers repeatedly despite claiming that isn't their purpose.
The audience is intended to think only the Jedi have responsibility, that Mae only made harmless mistake because she "loved" Osha, that Osha being corrupted by rage and hatred for Sol in response to learning the truth is empowering, not a manipulation from Mae and Qimir to have her on their side.
Osha mainly chose the Jedi to escape her possessive sister and the coven (conflating the goal of escape with the Jedi), and unlike the Mae or the coven, Osha is allowed to leave when she wants, is allowed peace that Mae ruins by indirectly dragging Osha into her mess, all of which she's just forgiven for.
It's classic Darksider tendencies, ego, jealousy, spite, but treated as good, such as with the supposed "positive corruption arc" for Osha, and not part of the reason why the Brendok Coven lost everything, how them acting purely on desire, ego, fear, anger and hatred destroyed everything they had (and Mae somehow burning down a stone building).
Even Aniseya is guilty of this, as she chose to transform into black Force ichor and provoke Sol into attacking to defend against this unknown ability, so it doesn't matter if she was going to release the girls because she didn't just say it when she easily could have).
8:27, Sol is in the wrong for getting too attached to the girls (and not just aiming his Force Grip at the girls and not the heavier platforms), girls that are so disinteresting to the audience that it's odd to see any character be so emotionally invested in them even with the unnatural nature of their existence, even if removing them from an abusive home wasn't a bad motivation, but when we the audience are expected to feel complete disgust and joy at his death and posthumous humiliation, than the creators simply fail to understand how to portray moral complexity or ambiguity, made even worse by how empty, overtly malevolent, uninteresting or annoying the characters we are intended to route for are, characters who are never really made to take any responsibility for their actions or flaws, characters the audience are meant to think are ultimately righteous and virtuous.
i love how people use jinx to compare how to do good writing to bad writing.
We want arcane at home mom
We got one sweetheart
Arcane at home :
I could see an interesting show, where the jedi represent slow adherence to the status quo, and the sith are seen as those who act. Like a split between say, police and vigilantes. One is rigid, but generally has the moral high ground, the other can be seen as a necessary evil, but the innate... refusal to consider the perspectives of others and follow their own will leaves it ripe for power mad corruption, or simply delusion. Between those perspectives, could be a curious grey question of... well, the sith are clearly wrong but... how realistically was the system going to solve problem x.
You know a show is good when i cry like a baby because A VILLIAN DIED! Silcos death shouldn't have put a single tear in my eye but it did because buddy actually loved and cared for powder/jinx even if he also used her as a weapon. She was also the only person he trusted absolutely, to the point of her being able to listen in on his meetings and she draws on his ashtray and stuff 🥺 HOW CAN YOU BE SO EVIL YET SO CUTE
Also just seeing a Jedi express a motivation based on so much emotion doesn’t make any sense knowing what we know about Jedi in general. Also, I love Arcane. Such a fantastic show and I’m so excited for season 2
Talk about Andor more in another video, please! I love that series to death!